Coming to Youtube Channel: The Terni tests
Gil Jesus
TERNI, Italy, June 29 (UPI) -- Italian weapons experts say tests on
the type of rifle used to kill U.S. President John F. Kennedy show
assassin Lee Harvey Oswald could not have acted alone.
The Warren Commission report concluded that Oswald fired three shots
with a Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle in 7 seconds to kill Kennedy
in Dallas in 1963. However, tests supervised by the Italian Army
showed it would take 19 seconds to get off three shots with that type
of gun, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.
The tests were done in a former Carcano factory in Terni.
In one test, a bullet was fired through two large pieces of meat to
simulate the assumed path of a shot that the Warren Commission
concluded struck Texas Gov. John Connally after passing through
Kennedy's body. In the test, the bullet ended deformed, while the
bullet in the Kennedy assassination remained intact.
Conspiracy theories about the assassination have been circulating for
more than four decades.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/06/29/italian_experts_test_jfk_assassination_gun/1113/
justm...@gmail.com
LMAO....you're really on a mission now aren't ya Gilda? Scarf that
internet looking for any little thing you can find to support your
case. Too bad none of it is going to change the outcome. Just one more
test to add to the many others and their claims. If nothing else, it
will keep you away from the little boys and porn sites ROFLMAO
Gil Jesus
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Joey, what do these insults have to do with the JFK assassination ?
justm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
What do all the threads you start about others have to do with the JFK
assassination?
David Von Pein
An old geezer with only one arm could recycle a Carcano rifle two
times in less than "19 seconds".
Can't wait to see those Terni, Italy, "19-second tests". I guess they
must have gotten Grandma Moses and Burt Mustin to conduct the tests
for them.
robcap...@netscape.com
"An old geezer with only one arm could recycle a Carcano rifle two
times in less than "19 seconds"."
This from one of the most ingorant men on the planet when it comes to
firearms!!! LOL!!! How about a pee doctor?
"Can't wait to see those Terni, Italy, "19-second tests". I guess they
must have gotten Grandma Moses and Burt Mustin to conduct the tests
for them."
The much more serious problem for DVP is the fact there is strong
evidence the rifle found, and claimed to be the murder weapon, was
NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI.
Gil Jesus
wrote:
> The much more serious problem for DVP is the fact there is strong
> evidence the rifle found, and claimed to be the murder weapon, was
> NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI.
The FBI never fired the Oswald rifle. They fired a duplicate rifle.
From the National Archives:
"Duplicate of Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle Used by the
Federal Bureau of Investigation for Ballistics Testing "
Here's the picture they present, which I copied.
Notice it says "duplicate" on the ID card.
http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/gjjmail/41602cXrkH0*ic1Lb0imwIK1L*kOy*0NWG=yav4xQp5Fd3Ig=3D/large/
Gil Jesus
Gil Jesus
test that's every bit as relevant or irrelevant as Lattimer's.
And it's from the people who BUILT the rifle.
Not a urologist.
Gil Jesus
I wouldn't consider Lattimer, the urologist, an expert if someone had
killed JFK by peeing on him.
robcap...@netscape.com
> wrote:
>
> > The much more serious problem for DVP is the fact there is strong
> > evidence the rifle found, and claimed to be the murder weapon, was
> > NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI.
>
"The FBI never fired the Oswald rifle. They fired a duplicate rifle."
Am I assuming right you mean the rifle found at the TSBD when you say
"Oswald's rifle?" I have serious doubts LHO ever had a rifle, but I
am assuming you are refering to the rifle found. It was NOT fired
from what I have read before (the one found) which leads to a lot of
skepticism regarding the found shells, fragments, and bullet when they
say they came from the rifle found on the sixth floor.
Why would they fire a duplicate instead of the rifle found? Perhaps
the one found was NOT operable?
>
> From the National Archives:
>
> "Duplicate of Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle Used by the
> Federal Bureau of Investigation for Ballistics Testing "
>
> Here's the picture they present, which I copied.
>
> Notice it says "duplicate" on the ID card.
>
> http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/gjjmail/41602cXrkH0*ic1Lb0imwIK1L*k...
robcap...@netscape.com
"Rob:
LOL!!! Good one!
Gil Jesus
wrote:
> On May 27, 8:16 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 27, 8:08�pm, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > The much more serious problem for DVP is the fact there is strong
> > > evidence the rifle found, and claimed to be the murder weapon, was
> > > NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI.
>
> "The FBI never fired the Oswald rifle. They fired a duplicate rifle."
>
> Am I assuming right you mean the rifle found at the TSBD when you say
> "Oswald's rifle?"
The one "attributed" to Oswald, yes.
>
> Why would they fire a duplicate instead of the rifle found? Perhaps
> the one found was NOT operable?
>
That's what I believe, yes.
Now you know why they never tested it to see if it had been fired.
They knew it was inoperable.
>
> > From the National Archives:
>
> > "Duplicate of Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle Used by the
> > Federal Bureau of Investigation for Ballistics Testing "
>
> > Here's the picture they present, which I copied.
>
> > Notice it says "duplicate" on the ID card.
>
> >http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/gjjmail/41602cXrkH0*ic1Lb0imwIK1L*k...- Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
>>> "The much more serious problem for DVP is the fact there is strong evidence the rifle found, and claimed to be the murder weapon, was NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI." <<<
But the even BIGGER (and fatal) problem for a certain Mega-Kook like
Robert "LHO SHOT NO ONE THAT DAY" Caprio is that there is even MORE
evidence to indicate that C2766 was POSITIVELY fired on 11/22/63 from
the Depository and was the weapon that killed JFK --
e.g.,
CE567.
CE569.
CE399.
The 3 shells in the sniper's nest.
But please continue to ignore the FACT that every scrap of bullet
evidence leads straight into this gun -- a gun that a Super-Kook says
martyb...@gmail.com
Jesus Gil is talking to himself again and answering himself again!!
Dumb ass Jesus Gil and Robcap are one in the same. The whole world
knows it but old dumb ass just keeps right on living his many lies.
David Von Pein
I disagree with you here. Gil's not the same kook as Robby. They're
different kooks (IMO).
muc...@gmail.com
More below...
[NARA Evidence Photos: Rifles and Clip, www.maryferrell.org]
http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php?title=Photos_-_NARA_Evidence_-_Rifles_and_Clip
[Testimony of Robert A. Frazier, WC 3H396-7]
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I now hand you a rifle which is marked C-250. Are
you familiar with this rifle?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you describe it briefly?
Mr. FRAZIER. It is an identical rifle physically to the rifle
Commission's Exhibit 139, in that it is the same caliber, 6.5-mm.
Mannlicher-Carcano Italian Military rifle, Model 91/38.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you attempt to determine by use of this rifle
whether the scope was mounted on Exhibit 139 by the firm which is
thought to have sold Exhibit 139?
Mr. FRAZIER. Would you repeat that, please?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes. Did you make an attempt to determine, by use of
this C-250, whether the firm which had sold Exhibit 139 had mounted
the scope on Exhibit 139?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you describe how you made that attempt?
Mr. FRAZIER. We contacted the firm, Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago,
and asked them concerning this matter to provide us with a similar
rifle mounted in the way in which they normally mount scopes of this
type on these rifles, and forward the rifle to us for examination. In
this connection, we did inform them that the scope should be in
approximately this position on the frame of the weapon.
Mr. EISENBERG. Pardon me, Mr. Frazier. When you say "this position,"
so that the record is clear could you---
Mr. FRAZIER. Oh, yes; in the position in which it now is,
approximately three-eighths of an inch to the rear of the receiver
ring.
Mr. EISENBERG. On the---
Mr. FRAZIER. On the C-250 rifle. When we received the rifle C-250, we
examined the mount and found that two of the holes had been enlarged,
and that screws had been placed through them and threaded into the
receiver of the C-250 rifle. The third hole in the mount had not been
used. We also found that an identical scope to the one on the
Commission's rifle 139 was present on the C-250 rifle.
Mr. EISENBERG. Were the screws used in mounting the C-250 rifle---in
mounting the scope on the C-250 rifle---type of screws as those used
in mounting the scope on Exhibit 139?
Mr. FBAZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. And the holes were the same dimensions?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, they are. And the threads in the holes are the same.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like C-250 admitted into evidence
as Commission Exhibit 542.
The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted. (The article referred to was marked
Commission Exhibit No. 542, and received in evidence.)
-Mark
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "The much more serious problem for DVP is the fact there is strong evidence the rifle found, and claimed to be the murder weapon, was NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI." <<<
>
"But the even BIGGER (and fatal) problem for a certain Mega-Kook like
Robert "LHO SHOT NO ONE THAT DAY" Caprio is that there is even MORE
evidence to indicate that C2766 was POSITIVELY fired on 11/22/63 from
the Depository and was the weapon that killed JFK --"
Really?? Where is this evidence again? If they are so sure of the
results why can NO ONE not tied to the WC or any government agency
actually test this stuff for themselves?
"e.g.,
CE567.
CE569.
CE399.
The 3 shells in the sniper's nest.
This is what they claimed, but it was NOT proven by independent
individuals or groups. They kept a tight lid on this "evidence",
why?
"But please continue to ignore the FACT that every scrap of bullet
evidence leads straight into this gun -- a gun that a Super-Kook says
was "NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI"."
I won't, and you don't forget that it was NEVER proven this rifle
fired A shot, let alone was fired three times by LHO.
robcap...@netscape.com
The more the merrier, right Dave? -)
Gil Jesus
> >>> "The much more serious problem for DVP is the fact there is strong evidence the rifle found, and claimed to be the murder weapon, was NEVER fired before the test done by the FBI." <<<
>
> But the even BIGGER (and fatal) problem for a certain Mega-Kook like
> Robert "LHO SHOT NO ONE THAT DAY" Caprio is that there is even MORE
> evidence to indicate that C2766 was POSITIVELY fired on 11/22/63 from
> the Depository and was the weapon that killed JFK --
>
> e.g.,
> The 3 shells in the sniper's nest.
Let's talk about those, Von Pein:
THE SHELL GAME
by Gil Jesus
THE DENTED SHELL--CE 543
This cartridge (Commission Exhibit 543) had a dent on its lip which
would have
made it impossible for it to have contained a bullet prior to its
being fired.
Therefore, either one of two possibilities existed: either the shell
received
the dent prior to the shooting and was not connected to it (inplying
that it
was planted at the scene -- evidence of a conspiracy) or the shell was
in fact
evidence and was dented somehow after its bullet had been spent. Faced
with a
mandate to dispel rumors of a conspiracy, the Commission at first
assumed that
this cartridge received its dent upon being ejected from the rifle and
falling
onto the floor. However, solid brass cartridges don't dent when they
hit the
floor, as any hunter will tell you. The FBI reported to the Commission
that the
dent was made during the firing sequence, WHILE THE BOLT WAS PULLED
BACKWARD,
after the shot had been fired. This seemed reasonable enough to the
Commission
to explain the existance of the dented lip, but on closer examination,
the
evidence does not support this conclusion.
First of all, this cartridge did not have the characteristic marking
on its
side (an indentation) which the Carcano's bolt produced on EVERY
cartridge
fired from it (Hoover memo to Rankin, 2 June 1964; FBI Ballistics
Report, 25
Dec.1964) , indicating that it had NEVER been inside the rifle's
firing
chamber, let alone been fired from it. Since it hadn't been in the
firing
chamber of Oswald's rifle, this cartridge was never fired from
Oswald's rifle,
which means that it could NOT have had the markings of the firing pin
of
Oswald's rifle. I say this because it is impossible for this shell to
have the
markings of the firing pin of Oswald's rifle without having been in
the firing
chamber. So where did the dent come from ? Did Oswald make the dent
with a
hammer after he fired the last shot ? The only sensible conclusion,
based on
the absence of the bolt and firing pin markings, is that this shell
had nothing
to do with the assassination of John F. Kennedy and was planted at the
scene of
the crime.
And this may be the reason that the Dallas Police hesitated in
sending this
shell to the FBI for examination.
CE 543 did contain three sets of markings inconsistent with the
markings
produced by Oswald's rifle, indicating that it had been loaded and
ejected
three times from a weapon other than Oswald's.
Secondly, at the primer, where the firing pin strikes the case, CE
543
contained a more concave indentation than the other two, indicating
that it had
been empty when "fired" from that other rifle. Only empty shells
exhibit this
type of characteristic.
The FBI reproduced this effect (CE 557) when it loaded an empty shell
into
Oswald's rifle.
It contained the same deep impression on the primer that CE 543
contained.
Thirdly, CE 543 contained markings caused by a magazine follower
other than
Oswald's. When the Carcano was tested by the FBI, it was found that
the
magazine follower marked only the last cartridge in the clip. The
last
cartridge in the clip of Oswald's rifle when found on November 22nd
was an
unfired round.
What this all means is that CE 543 was an empty cartridge which was
loaded
into another rifle three times and "fired". The comparison tests
conducted by
the FBI supported the conclusion that CE 543 was never in the firing
chamber of
Oswald's rifle and as a result of the lack of an indentation which the
bolt was
known to have caused on EVERY shell fired using it, this shell was not
ejected
through the bolt action and therefore this shell (CE543) was never
fired from
Oswald's rifle on November 22nd or at any other time.
This cartridge remained in the possession of the
Dallas Police until November 28th, five days after the other two
shells had
been turned over to the FBI for examination. It should be noted that
a
behind-the-scenes struggle for possession of the evidence existed
between the
DPD and the FBI. Capt. Fritz refused to release it, and Chief Curry
backed him
up. Only after Lyndon Johnson called Fritz and ordered him to do so
("You have
your man, the investigation is over") did Chief Curry and Capt. Fritz
finally
agree to release it.
Despite this agreement, the DPD did not give the FBI all of its
evidence on
November 23rd, withholding CE 543 and three of the four bullets
removed from
the body of Officer Tippit.
This struggle for the possession of the evidence likewise may have
been a
reason for not turning in CE 543 on November 23rd.
CE 544 & CE 545
Of the three cases found in the TSBD, only one, CE 544, had markings
produced
by the bolt of Oswald's rifle. In addition, CE 544 had the markings of
the
firing chamber and from the firing pin of Oswald's rifle, indicating
that it
had been fired by Oswald's rifle at some point in time, and that it
had been
loaded into the firing chamber and ejected through the bolt action.
This is
strong evidence that CE 544 contained a bullet that was fired from
Oswald's
rifle, although this not proof that the bullet was fired on November
22nd or
for that matter, that it was Oswald who fired it.
More on that later.
CE 545, on the other hand, did not have the markings of the bolt of
Oswald's
rifle nor did it have the marking of the firing pin, strong evidence
that this
shell had not been fired from Oswald's rifle. It did have the marking
of the
magazine follower, which marked only the last shell in the clip. So CE
545 had
been loaded as the last shell in the clip and then unloaded by hand
after the
clip was removed. This had occurred some time prior to the
assassination of
JFK. As CE 543 (the shell with the dented lip) had contained three
sets of
markings indicating that it had been loaded and ejected three times
from a
weapon other than Oswald's, both CE 544 and CE 545 had two sets of
markings
which were made from a rifle other than Oswald's.
In other words, all three shells had been in another rifle, but of
the three,
only CE 544 had been fired from Oswald's rifle at some point in time.
CE 543 & CE 545 had not.
Because only one of the three shells had the marking of the firing
pin of
Oswald's rifle on its primer, we can conclude that at least two of the
three
shells found in the Texas School Book Depository were not fired from
Oswald's
rifle at ANY time. If the shells found on the sixth floor of the TSBD
were in
fact fired that day, according to the examination of these shells, the
two of
them were fired from a weapon not Oswald's.