COULD IT HAVE BEEN CASTER'S MAUSER ?
Gil Jesus
Caster, can you tell me where and when and the circumstances under
which you saw these guns?
Mr. TRULY. ......Mr. Caster explained to me that he had bought himself
a rifle to go deer hunting with.......
( 7 H 381 )
Mr. BALL. Did you ever bring any guns into the School Book Depository
Building?
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. And what kind of guns were they?
Mr. CASTER. One gun was a Remington, single-shot, .22 rifle, and the
other was a .30-06 sporterized Mauser.
( 7 H 387 )
Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the rifle with any more particularity
than you already have?
Mr. ROWLAND. .......it appeared to me to be a .30-odd size 6, a deer
rifle with a fairly large or powerful scope.
( 2 H 170 )
Suspiciously coincidental.
aeffects
how many rifles did Truly have in the TSBD that day?
Sam McClung
carter worked for southwestern publishing company,
which may have also had offices in chicago, new york, and galveston =
possible ties of southwestern publishing company to chicago and ny mob
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c8bc9f6e-39fa-4660...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Gil Jesus
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dave, it would make a lot of sense. The guy brings in the rifles, they
stay in the building.
The killers come in, bang-bang, run out the building leaving the
weapons behind.
Mr. WORRELL. He wasn't holding nothing when he was running. He was
just running.
( 2 H 196 )
During the search, they find them. Craig and Weitzman identify the
30.06 Mauser as a 7.65 Mauser. Craig also says that the shells found
( planted ) were from a 6.5 Italian Carbine and the two didn't match.
Then they find the Carcano planted under the boxes. It matches the
shells.
The Mauser "left the building days before" because the shells don't
match it.
End of story.
Gil Jesus
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/threa...
>
> carter worked for southwestern publishing company,
>
> which may have also had offices in chicago, new york, and galveston =
> possible ties of southwestern publishing company to chicago and ny mob
>
>
> news:c8bc9f6e-39fa-4660...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Mr. BALL. On November 20, 1963, you saw two guns owned by Mr. Warren
> > Caster, can you tell me where and when and the circumstances under
> > which you saw these guns?
>
> > Mr. TRULY. ......Mr. Caster explained to me that he had bought
> > himself
> > a rifle to go deer hunting with.......
>
> > ( 7 H 381 )
>
> > Mr. BALL. Did you ever bring any guns into the School Book
> > Depository
> > Building?
>
> > Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did.
>
> > Mr. BALL. And what kind of guns were they?
>
> > Mr. CASTER. One gun was a Remington, single-shot, .22 rifle, and the
> > other was a .30-06 sporterized Mauser.
>
> > ( 7 H 387 )
>
> > Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the rifle with any more particularity
> > than you already have?
>
> > Mr. ROWLAND. .......it appeared to me to be a .30-odd size 6, a deer
> > rifle with a fairly large or powerful scope.
>
> > ( 2 H 170 )
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
And then remove those 7.65 bullets from Kennedy at Walter Reed and
there goes your evidence clearing Oswald.
Sam McClung
On Oct 8, 5:18?pm, aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote:
> During the search, they find them. Craig and Weitzman identify the
> 30.06 Mauser as a 7.65 Mauser.
or...a 7.65 argentinian cain mauser brought into the tsbd and left on
the 6th floor by oswald on 11-21-63 was the throwdown and the
sporterized 30.06 argentinian nicoletti mauser was returned unfired to
carter's office on the 2nd floor after the shooting
>Craig also says that the shells found
> ( planted ) were from a 6.5 Italian Carbine and the two didn't
> match.
> Then they find the Carcano planted under the boxes. It matches the
shells.
craig says a mauser was found under the boxes yada yada yada
ellsworth said the carcano was found on the 4th floor
Gil Jesus
This is definitely something that the authorities should have pursued
in their investigation, that is if they had conducted a legitimate
investigation.
Rifles in a bulding on the motorcade route days before the President
is scheduled to ride by in an open car ?
Brought into the building TWO DAYS after the papers announce the
motorcade route ?
The same day that men are seen on the knoll with rifles by a passing
DPD cruiser ?
And the SURROUNDING BUILDINGS WERE NEVER CHECKED ?
I mean, was it an ambush or Dallas in Wonderland ?
Sam McClung
> Dallas in Wonderland ?
you nailed that one on the head
Walt
Oh... Jesus H. Christ on a skate board.... This is just plain silly.
As much faith as I have in Arnold Rowland's testimony , there are a
few things that he said that are utterly absurd.
One of the things that Rowland said that was absolutely baseless and
without any foundation, is his opinion about the CALIBER of the
HUNTING rifle that he saw in the hands of the gunman. There is NO WAY
in hell that he could determine the CALIBER ( 30.06 which is the
inside diameter of the barrel ) of the HUNTING rifle from 150 feet
away. I seriously doubt that he could have determined the caluber by
looking at bore at the muzzle of the rifle if he was only ONE foot
from the barrel. Many knowledgable gunmen can't determine the caliber
by merely looking at the bore of the rifle.
I believe what Rowland was trying to say when he said that was:....
His Father-in-law had a sporterized hunting rifle with a powerful
scope that was designed to fire the 30.06 Springfield cartridge. His
Father-in-law's rifle probably was a sporterized 1903 Springfield US
army rifle.
There is good reason to doubt that Caster was telling the truth about
the caliber of his Mauser
Mr. CASTER. One gun was a Remington, single-shot, .22 rifle, and the
other was a .30-06 sporterized Mauser.
To convert a Mauser to fire a 30.06 Springfield cartridge requires
extensive machine work and a complete barrel change.
There is no good reason to convert a 7.65 mauser (for example) to
30.06..... There was pplanty of good quality 7.65 anno available in
the US ...and the 7.65 is ballistically similar to the 30.06....So it
would have been a senseless conversion.
I'd bet that Caster's Sporterized Mauser was a 6.5 Swedish Mauser and
NOT a 30.06.
Gil Jesus
> Oh... Jesus H. Christ on a skate board.... �This is just plain silly.
You really need to be more tolerant of other people Walt.
You've said alot of silly things here that I let go by without saying
a peep.
I was asking a question based on the coincidental testimony.
Perhaps you should try treating people the way they treat you.
Walt
I'm fed up with the nonsense..... Rob Crap pushed me over the top....
Gil I think you THE most level headed CT in this NG... So If I ruffle
your feathers by pointing out a silly idea, I'm sorry.
We've been screwing around and acting like idiots for far too long.
It's high time that people like you and I slap the stupid bastards up
side the head and tell them to start using their heads a quit spouting
nonsense like...Bill Greer The driver did it.... (as an example)
Gil Jesus
The Mauser
The Warren Commission says that the only weapon involved in the
shooting that day was found by Deputy Sheriff E.L. Boone on the sixth
floor by the staircase. [20]
After Boone found the rifle, Captain Fritz, Deputy Roger Craig, and
Deputy Sheriff Weitzman also examined the rifle.
After Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig viewed the sniper's nest, where he
saw three spent 6.5 millimeter cartridges, he began to search for a
weapon with Boone. "We started toward the northeast corner of the
building. There was a stack of boxes at the head of the stairwell and
Boone looked into it and said, 'Here it is. Here's the rifle.' We
didn't touch it until Captain Fritz and Lt. Day of the Dallas police
got there. They took some pictures of the rifle and Day pulled out the
rifle and handed it to Captain Fritz, who held it up by the strap and
asked if anyone knew what kind of rifle it was. Deputy Constable
Seymour Weitzman had joined us and Weitzman was a gun buff, and he was
very good with weapons. He said, 'It looks like a Mauser.' He walked
over to Fritz, and Captain Fritz was holding the rifle up in the air,
and I was standing next to Weitzman, who was standing next to Fritz,
and we weren't more than 6-8 inches from the rifle, and stamped right
on the barrel of the rifle was '7.65 Mauser,' and that's when Weitzman
said, 'It is a Mauser,' and pointed to the '7.65 Mauser' on the
barrel." [21]
Boone later testified that Captain Fritz also thought that the gun was
a Mauser. [22]
Boone testified in two written reports that the gun was a Mauser.
Weitzman signed an affidavit the next day stating that the rifle he
and Boone had found was a "7.65 Mauser bolt action equipped with a
4/18 scope, a thick leather brownish-black sling on it." [23]
Fritz would eventually testify to the Warren Commission that the gun
found on the sixth floor was Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano.
Weitzman also recanted his belief that the gun was a Mauser, though he
was never shown the Mannlicher-Carcano by the Warren Commission to
confirm the fact that it was the rifle that he had seen on the sixth
floor.
An FBI envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122) dated 12/2/1963
that was released in 1995 by the Assassinations Record Review Board
ARRB had a cover that detailed the contents of the envelope as being a
7.65 mm rifle shell. The shell was allegedly found in Dealey Plaza
after the shooting, though nothing was known about this envelope or
rifle shell until the release of the 1995 records.
The whereabouts of the 7.65 mm rifle shell is unknown. Researcher Anna
Marie Kuhns-Walko first reported the envelope. The envelope had the
following label: "7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/1963 ...
determined of no value and destroyed."
Arthur Pineda's analysis of photos showing the rifle in Lt. Day's
possession seems to heighten the controversy concerning the ammunition
clip and the identification of the rifle. Dallas Police Department
pictures show Lt. Day dusting a rifle for prints while in the Texas
School Book Depository. The photograph shows that the rifle has no
ammunition clip. However, another picture of Lt. Day carrying the
rifle from the Depository shows a rifle with an ammunition clip
"clearly visible protruding from the bottom of the magazine of the
rifle." This photo also shows a rifle with sling swivels mounted on
the left side of the weapon, "while CE 746 B (a Warren Commission
enlargement of CE 133A, which is a photo of Oswald with rifle) clearly
shows that Oswald's rifle had the sling swivels on the bottom. The
rifle that Lt. Day is carrying simply is not Oswald's rifle." [24]
On the afternoon of the shooting, KBOX, a Dallas television station,
broadcast that "a rifle has been found in a staircase on the fifth
floor ... Sheriff's deputies identify the weapon as a 7.65 Mauser ...
" [25]
To add to the confusion WBAP-TV reported that a British Enfield 303
had been found in the Depository. [26]
Dallas police officer Lt. Day took the rifle to police headquarters on
Friday afternoon and dictated a detailed report of the weapon's
description to his secretary, but the report was never included in the
Commission's exhibits. [27]
Later that night at a televised press conference, Dallas District
Attorney Wade declared that the rifle found in the Depository was a
7.65 German Mauser. [28]
Lt. Day released the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle to the FBI at 11:45
p.m., November 22, 1963.
The CIA produced a document on the 25th of November 1963 that created
more confusion by declaring " ... employed in this criminal attack is
a Model 91 rifle, 7.35 caliber, 1938 modification ... the description
of a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the Italian and foreign press is in
error. It was a Mauser." [29]
Oswald told his inquisitors that he had seen a Mauser in the Texas
School Book Depository. On November 20th, Warren Carter, an employee
of Southwestern Publishing Company that occupied part of the second
floor in the Depository, brought a Mauser rifle and a .22 calibre
rifle for his fellow employees to look at, a fact that was verified by
numerous Depository employees. [30]
Curiously, Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano clearly has "MADE ITALY" and
"CAL 6.5" stamped on the side of the barrel. Though Oswald's rifle was
clearly marked, Boone, Weitzman, Craig, and Fritz at one time stated
they thought the gun was a Mauser, and Lt. Day's report is not
available. Weitzman's description includes the exact calibration of
the scope and the color of the sling. Though it is very clear that
what the officers thought they had found was a Mauser, the Warren
Commission explained away this problem by stating"Weitzman did not
handle the rifle and did not examine it at close range... thought it
was a Mauser ... [and eventually] police laboratory technicians
subsequently arrived and correctly identified the weapon as a 6.5
Italian rifle." [31]
But what the officers found may very well have been a Mauser
considering what Frank Ellsworth saw in the Depository that day.
Ellsworth was an agent of the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agency
and was in his office not far from the Depository when he was told of
the shooting. He ran to the Depository and entered the building with
Captain Will Fritz. Ellsworth claims he found the sniper's nest on the
sixth floor, but the "gun was not found on the same floor as the
cartridges, but on a lower floor by a couple of city detectives... I
think the rifle was found on the fourth floor." [32]
Ellsworth participated in a second search of the Depository after 1:30
p.m. on November 22, 1963. The gun that was found was an Italian
Mannlicher-Carcano hidden behind boxes near the "stairwell back in the
northwest corner ... I have the recollection that the position it was
in, and where it was found, led to conjecture that as Oswald came down
the stairs he probably pitched it over behind these books." [33]
Ellsworth has stood by his original assessment of where the Mannlicher-
Carcano was found in a 1993 interview with authors Ray and Mary
LaFontaine.
Notes
20. Warren Commission Exhibit 2003, p. 63.
21. Two Men in Dallas, an interview of Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig,
video, Alpa Productions 1976.
22. Warren Commission Report, Hearings, v. 3, p. 395.
23. Warren Commission Exhibit, 2169.
24. Pineda, Arthur. "Letter to the Editor Concerning Richard Trask's
Pictures of the Pain," The Fourth Decade, v.3., n.2, January, 1996, p.
9.
25. Warren Commission Exhibit, 3048.
26. Reported by Tom Webb of WBAP-TV, Fort Worth, Texas, News Coverage
of the Assassination of President Kennedy, MR 74-52: 1 (tape), The
John F. Kennedy Library, Waltham, Massachusetts.
27. Meagher, Sylvia. Accessories After the Fact, p. 99, 1967.
28. Warren Commission Report, Hearings, v. 24, p. 829, 831.
29. CIA report 104-40, WC XXIV, p. 829, 831.
30. Warren Report, 546-8.
31. Warren Commission Report, p. 645-646.
32. Russell, Dick. The Man Who Knew Too Much, Carroll and Graf, 1992,
p. 568.
33. Ibid, p. 569.
Walt
> This from Fair Play magazine:
>
> The Mauser
>
> The Warren Commission says that the only weapon involved in the
> shooting that day was found by Deputy Sheriff E.L. Boone on the sixth
> floor by the staircase. [20]
>
> After Boone found the rifle, Captain Fritz, Deputy Roger Craig, and
> Deputy Sheriff Weitzman also examined the rifle.
Gil, you're being a sucker.... Follow the trail to the SOURCE of the
7.65 Mauser story.
When you track all storie back they originate with Seymor
Weitzman.......Who GUESSED that the rifle that was pulled from
BENEATH BENEATH.. the boxes was a GERMAN mauser. He later admitted
that he had guessed and he had guessed wrong. No other cop up there
on the sixth floor at that time knew what the rifle was when it first
emerged from the cave in the boxes. They simply accepted that
Weitzman knew what he was talkin about.
Roger Craig was just like Robcap in that he was an egotistical nut and
a liar who would not admit an error and infact would embellish the
original claim by creating more lies to bolster his original error.
Craig said .." We were not more that 6 or 8 inches away from the
rifle and stamped right there on the barrel was 7.65 Mauser"
The videos show that he was NOT 6 or 8 inches away AT THE TIME the
rifle was pulled from the cave.
It would have been IMPOSSIBLE for Craig to have seen.. "7.65 Mauser"..
stamped on the barrel, because the 7.65 Argentine mausers were NOT
STAMPED ON THE BARREL... They ARE stamped in two differen locations on
the rifle. The caliber is stamped in one plase and the Mauser Logo was
stamped in another.
Seymour Weitzman is THE SOURCE of the GERMAN mauser story...he
admitted that he guessed wrong. His admission automatically nullifies
any claim by Roger Craig....
Sam Brown
You are such a hypocrite Gilbert, unfortunately you are also too stupid to
notice. How's that online legal consult coming along little man? Who's
representing you bigot? Onya, Neese and Gobblard?
Gil Jesus
NINE DIFFERENT SOURCES OF A 7.65 MAUSER IN DEALEY PLAZA
1. After DEPUTY SHERIFF ROGER CRAIG viewed the sniper's nest, where he
saw three spent 6.5 millimeter cartridges, he began to search for a
weapon with Boone. "We started toward the northeast corner of the
building. There was a stack of boxes at the head of the stairwell and
Boone looked into it and said, 'Here it is. Here's the rifle.' We
didn't touch it until Captain Fritz and Lt. Day of the Dallas police
got there. They took some pictures of the rifle and Day pulled out the
rifle and handed it to Captain Fritz, who held it up by the strap and
asked if anyone knew what kind of rifle it was. Deputy Constable
Seymour Weitzman had joined us and Weitzman was a gun buff, and he was
very good with weapons. He said, 'It looks like a Mauser.' He walked
over to Fritz, and Captain Fritz was holding the rifle up in the air,
and I was standing next to Weitzman, who was standing next to Fritz,
and we weren't more than 6-8 inches from the rifle, and stamped right
on the barrel of the rifle was '7.65 Mauser,' and that's when Weitzman
said, 'It is a Mauser,' and pointed to the '7.65 Mauser' on the
barrel." [21]
2. Boone later testified that CAPTAIN FRITZ also thought that the gun
was a Mauser. [22]
3. BOONE testified in two written reports that the gun was a Mauser.
WEITZMAN signed an affidavit the next day stating that the rifle he
and Boone had found was a "7.65 Mauser bolt action equipped with a
4/18 scope, a thick leather brownish-black sling on it." [23]
Weitzman's description includes the exact calibration of the scope and
the color of the sling, evidence that he examined the rifle and didn't
just take a wild guess.
4. An FBI ENVELOPE (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122) dated
12/2/1963 that was released in 1995 by the Assassinations Record
Review Board ( ARRB ) had a cover that detailed the contents of the
envelope as being a 7.65 mm rifle shell. The shell was allegedly found
in Dealey Plaza after the shooting, though nothing was known about
this envelope or rifle shell until the release of the 1995 records.
The whereabouts of the 7.65 mm rifle shell is unknown. Researcher Anna
Marie Kuhns-Walko first reported the envelope. The envelope had the
following label: "7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/1963 ...
determined of no value and destroyed."
5. On the afternoon of the shooting, KBOX, a Dallas television
station, broadcast that "a rifle has been found in a staircase on the
fifth floor ... Sheriff's deputies identify the weapon as a 7.65
Mauser ..." [25]
6. Later that night at a televised press conference, DALLAS DISTRICT
ATTORNEY HENRY WADE declared that the rifle found in the Depository
was a 7.65 German Mauser. [28]
7. THE CIA produced a document on the 25th of November 1963 that
declared " ... the description of a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the
Italian and foreign press is in error. It was a Mauser." [29]
8. LEE HARVEY OSWALD told his inquisitors that he had seen a Mauser in
the Texas School Book Depository. On November 20th, Warren Carter, an
employee of Southwestern Publishing Company that occupied part of the
second floor in the Depository, brought a Mauser rifle for his fellow
employees to look at, a fact that was verified by numerous Depository
employees. [30]
Curiously, Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano clearly has "MADE ITALY" and
"CAL 6.5" stamped on the side of the barrel. Though Oswald's rifle was
clearly marked, Boone, Weitzman, Craig, and Fritz at one time stated
they thought the gun was a Mauser, and Lt. Day's report is not
available. Weitzman's description includes the exact calibration of
the scope and the color of the sling, evidence that he examined the
rifle and didn't just take a wild guess at what it was.
Notes
21. Two Men in Dallas, an interview of Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig,
video, Alpa Productions 1976.
22. Warren Commission Report, Hearings, v. 3, p. 395.
23. Warren Commission Exhibit, 2169.
25. Warren Commission Exhibit, 3048.
29. CIA report 104-40, WC XXIV, p. 829, 831.
Gil Jesus
does she remember these "anti-Walt "posts she made ?
Let's take a look:
Now fuck off old man, the smell is rancid.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7115cc1ddc720612
No wonder your grandkids have behavioral problems, they are as sick as
you. It's genetic.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/66faa32ea78c924f
Tell me, ever strung a black man from a tree? You are filth. Stay in
whatever backwater shithole you live in, the civilised world doesn't
want you.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/33d0f9d3e0e5213a
Why dont you do us all a favour and strap a bomb to your chest
like the rest of your hater friends in the extremist islamic movement.
You
are a disgrace to democracy and free thinking countrys everywhere. You
dont
deserve the freedoms you were born with, and I'm certain you've never
done a
damn thing to protect them either. You are a chicken shit piece of
dirt.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/b9e1e6668e472352
You have exactly the same beliefs as those people who blew your son in-
law to smithereens. Proud of your self terrorsit scum.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4879f8b137e4677b
You however are terminally stupid. Stay stupid, who gives a shit.
Bigot always are.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/82050f0b00c81c57
fuck off bigot.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/0086091407af40c6
Isn't she just a ray of sunshine ?
Looks like ole Sammy Salmon is a bit of a hypocrite herself.
Walt
Hey thanks for providing the links to the posts, Gil.... I've written
some pretty good stuff.... if I dare say so myself....
I didn't remember Sammy making all those nasty ad hominem,
ineffective, attacks..but some of them were pretty vicious ...huh?
Oh well.... When a person doesn't have any real ammo, all they can do
is throw BS.
Walt
> Caster, can you tell me where and when and the circumstances under
> which you saw these guns?
>
> Mr. TRULY. ......Mr. Caster explained to me that he had bought himself
> a rifle to go deer hunting with.......
Could it have been Caster's Mauser??
YES!! It could have been Caster's sporterized Mauser that Arnold
Rowland and Howard Brennan saw in the hands of the khaki clad "Secret
Service security guard" who was standing behind the sixth floor
window.
When Lt Day brought the Carcano to Captain Fritz's office and Fritz
asked Oswald if he'd ever seen this rifle before.....Oswald answered:
"Yes.. I saw this rifle and two other rifles in Mr Truly's office at
lunch time the day before yesterday ( wed. 11 /20 /63) (see Hosty's
"Assignment:Oswald" to view hand written note)
Truly said that the rifles belonged to Warren Caster.........
One of those rifles was a Mauser..... A sporterized mauser... A
military rifle that had been converted to a HUNTING rifle.
Truly said that the "Caster's mauser" had been converted to fire the
30.06 Springfield cartridge.... I don't believe that. Because it
wouldn't have made sense to convert a perfectly good Mauser to fire a
30.06 cartridge. It wouldnt have made sense because the mausers are
comparable to the 30.06 ballistically. The reason sportsmen convert
rifles is to gain more power and accuracy .....but converting a mauser
to 30.06 would not accomplish that so it wouldn't be wort the
effort.
One of the best quality and most accurate rifles in the world is the
6.5mm Swedish mauser..... It is well made with excellent quality
materials and it is made with precision workmanship. It is high
sought after by Sportsmen to convert to a hunting rifle.
The cartridge for the 6.5mm Swede is nearly identical to the 6.5mm
Mannlicher Carcano cartridge. Both cartridges use the same bullet
(projectile) which measures .264 inches in diameter, weighs 160 grains
(nominal) and is 1.23 inches long.
Based on the above, it would have made sense for the khaki clad
"security guard" to have used a 6.5mm sporterized Swedish Mauser,
because the bullets from the mauser were identical to the bullets from
a Mannlicher Carcano.
Since the conspirators planned to frame Oswald fro the murder and
Oswald was connected to a 6.5mm rifle it's reasonable that they would
have employed a rifle of the same caliber.
Sam Brown
> Sam talks about hypocrites.......comes to the defense of Walt,
Quote me defending Walt, you lying piece of detritus. You are peas in a pod,
both of you useless wastes of skin. Does that clear it up for you ?
Sam Brown
the bigot is in dire need of a dictionary. Perhaps we could hold a telethon
for the poor loser.
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fb303c1b-3e10-42a7...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Gil Jesus
>
> Gil, you're being a sucker.... �Follow the trail to the SOURCE of the
> 7.65 Mauser story.
>
> When you track all storie back they originate with Seymor
> Weitzman.......Who GUESSED that the rifle that was pulled from
> BENEATH �BENEATH.. the boxes was a GERMAN mauser. He later admitted
> that he had guessed and he had guessed wrong. �No other cop up there
> on the sixth floor at that time knew what the rifle was when it first
> emerged from the cave in the boxes. �They simply accepted that
> Weitzman knew what he was talkin about.
"Mr. Weitzman decribed the rifle which was found as a 7.65 caliber
Mauser bolt action rifle, which loads from a five shot clip which is
locked on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard.
The metal parts of this rifle were of a gun metal color, gray or blue,
and the rear protion of the bolt was visibly worn. The wooden portions
of this rifle were dark brown in color and of rough wood, having been
used or damaged to considerable extent. This rifle was equipped with a
four power 18 scope of apparent Japanese manufacture. It was also
equipped with a thick brown-black bandolier-type leather sling.
AFTER HE HAD OBSERVED THE RIFLE TO THE EXTENT DESCRIBED ABOVE, Capt.
Fritz appeared and took the rifle from him."
( FBI reports of 11/23/63 and designated as HSCA files
180-101115-10327 and 180-10086-10049 )
http://assassinat.iquebec.com/misc_180-10115-10327.html
http://assassinat.iquebec.com/misc_180-10086-10049.html
....sounds like Weitzman took more than a GUESS to me.
Walt
Gil, This is what the FBI claimed that Weitzman said..... Where is an
affidavit in which Weitzman himself describes the rifle?? An
affidavit that is signed and notarized.???
There's something really screwy about this..... And I wish you
weren't so damned closed minded about the discovery of the rifle, so
we could discuss it.
I've tried to send you a couple of E mails but you've got me blocked
out. ( You told me it was a computer glitch, but I now believe you
lied.... Only a dishonest person would refuse to listen to other
rational and reasonable ideas)
Oh well....carry on.
robcap...@netscape.com
Thanks for summing yourself up soooooooooo perfectly!!! Walt has to be
a LNer as all these folks are coming to his rescue.
robcap...@netscape.com
How has this guy studied this case for 40 years?????? He is so
clueless. Did he NEVER look at the 26 volumes of the WC???? He must
not have because here it is:
http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0123b.htm
I better mention it is on the left-hand side too, or you will get
confused.
> There's something really screwy about this..... And I wish you
> weren't so damned closed minded about the discovery of the rifle, so
> we could discuss it.
LOL!!!! Gil is "close-minded" when Walt has INGORED all the basic
evidence in the case!!!!! LOL!!!!
> I've tried to send you a couple of E mails but you've got me blocked
> out. ( You told me it was a computer glitch, but I now believe you
> lied.... Only a dishonest person would refuse to listen to other
> rational and reasonable ideas)
I wish I could do the same, perhaps Gil will help me.
> Oh well....carry on
Yes, carry on Gil telling the truth as we need all hands on deck as
Walt spreads lies faster than ALL the LNers on here combined!
Walt
wrote:
Actually it's you who is more like a LNer......
A LNer is
1) An idiot who believes in fictional nonsense.
2) A liar who will lie to himself and anybody who will listen to him
3) A moron who wiil not listen to, and evaluate, all information
available before forming an opinion.
4) A screwball who will spew the most bizarre ideas as if that are
rational....(Like the SBT)
5) a crybaby who wimpers and whines when he's shown to be wrong
robcap...@netscape.com
We all know who the LNer is "Walt The Liar"! I love how he uses books
when it suits him, but everyone else can't "think for themselves" or
has their "head up their butt" if we use a book.
I think Walt has OUTLINED perfectly for us what a LNer is, and HOW HE
FITS THE BILL:
> A LNer is
>
> 1) An idiot who believes in fictional nonsense.
> 2) A liar who will lie to himself and anybody who will listen to him
> 3) A moron who wiil not listen to, and evaluate, all information
> available before forming an opinion.
> 4) A screwball who will spew the most bizarre ideas as if that are
> rational....(Like the SBT)
> 5) a crybaby who wimpers and whines when he's shown to be wrong
Thanks for FINALLY declaring who and what you are!!!!
tomnln
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:0d7db590-70e0-48b3...@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Here's Weitzman's "Signed/Notorized Affidavit" dated 11/23/63.>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
Your attempts to make excuses for the WCR is Foiled Again.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gil Jesus
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�--------------------------------------------
>
> Here's Weitzman's "Signed/Notorized Affidavit" dated 11/23/63.>>>
>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
>
> Your attempts to make excuses for the WCR is Foiled Again.
First, Walt said that Weitzman was mistaken about the type of rifle.
And that every other officer who wrote reports on the discovery of the
rifle went with Weitzman's misidentifcation rather than look at the
rifle himself. He used the "4/18 scope" in Weitzman's report as proof
that the rifle he saw was a Mannlicher Carcano.
But Weitzman testified to the WC that he originally thought the scope
was a 2.5 Weaver, where's THAT in his report ? How did he look long
enough at the scope to get it right and not even look at the rifle ?
Did Walt know that when the FBI received the rifle that the scope was
"loose" ? That the excuse used for the loose scope was that it was
removed for the dusting for fingerprints ?
What a bunch of BS.....Who's fingerprints did they expect to find
UNDER the scope, that they had to remove it ?
Could the scopes from the Mauser and MC rifles been switched ?
I believe they were.
Next, Walt says that Weitzman only GLANCED at the rifle, yet the FBI
reports indicate that Weitzman's own description of the rifle was
pretty detailed, even describing the clip and how and where it was
attached. They also implied with the phrase " Capt. Fritz appeared and
took the rifle from him " that Weitzman had actually handled the rifle
and examined it.
Next, Walt says that that was what the FBI said he said, and asking
for Weitzman's sworn affidavit. But Weitzman's affidavit said the same
thing as his police report, that the rifle was a Mauser with a 4/18
scope.
Weitzman LIED when he said that he didn't get a good look at the
rifle. The documents indicate that he DID examine it close enough to
give a detailed description to the FBI.
"I suggest it is very difficult for a police officer to pick up a
weapon which has printed upon it clearly in English "Made Italy. Cal
6.5," and then the next day draft an affidavit stating that that was
in fact a German Mauser 7.65 millimeters." --- Mark Lane ( 5 H 561 )
I agree completely with Mr. Lane's assessment.
Gil Jesus
> I've tried to send you a couple of E mails but you've got me blocked
> out. �( You told me it was a computer glitch, but I now believe you
> lied.... Only a dishonest person would refuse to listen to other
> rational and reasonable ideas)
>
> Oh well....carry on.
It WAS a glitch, but after thinking about it, I find that it would be
a disservice to the world for me to "hog" the vast knowledge and
insight that you feel necessary to share with me only in private e-
mails, where there is no challenge from other parties.
No offense, but I like it better in a forum arrangement, where nothing
is off the table.
Walt
Well OK.... Here's what I wrote :
Gil, It's a shame that you have such a closed mind about the 7.65
rifle. You are one of only two people in this NG who I believe is
knowledgable and rational. I know that I can't change your mind
about Roger Craig's veracity because that is something only you can
do. However, I'd ask you to seriously THINK about your position.
And I'd ask you to ask yourself: If the conspirators were framing
Oswald would they plant a rifle that had no known connection to
Oswald?
You have to face the fact that they knew that there was a paper trail
of the purchase of a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano that led to Oswald. And
they knew there was a Back Yard photo showing Oswald holding a
Mannlicher Carcano ...so it why would they plant a tottally different
rifle??? Does this really seem logical to you??
tomnln
It seems that Wally World is as "Secretive" as the Warren Commission.
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:14e5c873-ed06-4863...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Walt
Gil, obviously you know nothing about firearms ( kinda odd for an ex
lawman not to know anything about guns)
If you were familiar with guns would know would KNOW that on SATURDAY
11 /23 /63 the DPD cops (Fritz?) brought a 7.65 Mauser with a scope
and a sling on it to Weitzman and asked him to describe it for the FBI
man. The FBI man wrote down what Weitzman said and it appears that
Weitzman was describing the TSBD rifle.....He was NOT describing the
TSBD rifle he was describing a 7.65 Mauser that apparently was LOADED
LOADED that they brought to him. The TSBD rifle was in Washington DC
on Saturday 11/23 /63.
The 64 dollar question is WHY??
Would they want weitzmant to describe for an FBI report a rifle that
obviously was NOT the TSBD rifle.
Were they trying to get him to see the difference between a 7.65
Mauser and a MC??
Wre they hoping that he would "accidently" shoot himself with that
loaded rifle?? There is really something stinky going on
here.....
robcap...@netscape.com
> On 16 Oct, 13:08, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 16, 11:50 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > I've tried to send you a couple of E mails but you've got me blocked
> > > out. ( You told me it was a computer glitch, but I now believe you
> > > lied.... Only a dishonest person would refuse to listen to other
> > > rational and reasonable ideas)
>
> > > Oh well....carry on.
>
> > It WAS a glitch, but after thinking about it, I find that it would be
> > a disservice to the world for me to "hog" the vast knowledge and
> > insight that you feel necessary to share with me only in private e-
> > mails, where there is no challenge from other parties.
>
> > No offense, but I like it better in a forum arrangement, where nothing
> > is off the table.
>
> Well OK.... Here's what I wrote :
>
> Gil, It's a shame that you have such a closed mind about the 7.65
> rifle. You are one of only two people in this NG who I believe is
> knowledgable and rational. I know that I can't change your mind
> about Roger Craig's veracity because that is something only you can
> do. However, I'd ask you to seriously THINK about your position.
> And I'd ask you to ask yourself: If the conspirators were framing
> Oswald would they plant a rifle that had no known connection to
> Oswald?
The other point that needs to be made is Walt seems so interested in
changing everyone's thought pattern, but he provides NO proof. Look
at the wording of this message. You have to THINK, is his common
refrain, which is an insult and NOT really the best way to get someone
to see your point of view in the first place. Walt acts like he is
the ONLY one who has THOUGHT and he has all the answers, but as we
have seen his answers are similar to the LNers. He also fails to
provide any proof for anything he claims the rest of us are NOT
THINKING about.
Walt's last question is as naive as any LNers, as they were in total
control of the investigation so it didn't really matter what rifle(s)
were found, as they had a pre-conceived idea and NOTHING was going to
get in the way of this. Walt fails to see they just made up a
'connection' to LHO with the rifle, that is why he CAN'T prove his
assertions like the rest of his LN pals.
> You have to face the fact that they knew that there was a paper trail
> of the purchase of a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano that led to Oswald.
Really??? What did you prove when you showed us this paper trail?
NOTHING is the answer.
> And
> they knew there was a Back Yard photo showing Oswald holding a
> Mannlicher Carcano ...so it why would they plant a tottally different
> rifle??? Does this really seem logical to you??
Where is your proof ANY of the BY photos are real???? Why are you
trying to force Gil to change his mind??? I don't see any other CTer
doing this. We all have researched this case and can make up our own
minds, but if real proof is offered it can help show us something new
to consider. You NEVER offer any proof though do you?
tomnln
How nice of Wally World to connect Oswald to the rifle found in the TSBD ! !
!
Maybe Wally World is gettin ready to give official Citations for these
"Speculations"(LIES) of his>>>
When are you gonna offer Proof of your Lying Stupid Bastard Claims?>>>
Hey Walt;
You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
You never proved that Walker called Germany.
You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
You never proved Walker believed LHO shot at him.
You never proved that Capt O A Jones said LHO shot AT Walker.
You never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was copper
jacketed.
You never proved LHO received a 40 minch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHO shot at Walker.
You never proved that LHO ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHOI altered the chin in CE-133-a.
You never proved your claim that a 6.5 was fired from a "sabot".
You never proved your claim that the CIA was gonna "rescue Oswald".
You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
tomnln
I'll add it to the rest of Wally World's Bullshit "Claims".
I don't suppose Wally world is gonna give any official citation for this one
EITHER ! ! !
Wally World all by himself eliminates the need for "Snow White & the Seven
Dwarves". (WCR)
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:c2dc7b8c-5f37-4785...@17g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
Walt
wrote:
Hey Stupid Bastard....You don't see me telling Ben, or Herbert to
think do you??
Do you understand why that is?? It's because they demonstrate that
they can THINK (and pretty damned well I might add)
I only request those who appear to be able to reason, to THINK...all
others I merely tell to get there head outta their ass. If a person
like yourself demonstrates over and over that they've got their head
in their ass there isn't much sense in requesting that they do
something that's impossible for them to do.
but as we
> have seen his answers are similar to the LNers. He also fails to
> provide any proof for anything he claims the rest of us are NOT
> THINKING about.
>
> Walt's last question is as naive as any LNers, as they were in total
> control of the investigation so it didn't really matter what rifle(s)
> were found, as they had a pre-conceived idea and NOTHING was going to
> get in the way of this. Walt fails to see they just made up a
> 'connection' to LHO with the rifle, that is why he CAN'T prove his
> assertions like the rest of his LN pals.
>
> > You have to face the fact that they knew that there was a paper trail
> > of the purchase of a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano that led to Oswald.
>
> Really??? What did you prove when you showed us this paper trail?
> NOTHING is the answer.
>
> > And
> > they knew there was a Back Yard photo showing Oswald holding a
> > Mannlicher Carcano ...so it why would they plant a tottally different
> > rifle??? Does this really seem logical to you??
>
> Where is your proof ANY of the BY photos are real???? Why are you
> trying to force Gil to change his mind??? I don't see any other CTer
> doing this. We all have researched this case and can make up our own
> minds, but if real proof is offered it can help show us something new
> to consider. You NEVER offer any proof though do you?- Hide quoted text -
Gil Jesus
>
> If you were familiar with guns would know would KNOW that on SATURDAY
> 11 /23 /63 �the DPD cops (Fritz?) brought a 7.65 �Mauser with a scope
> and a sling on it to Weitzman and asked him to describe it for the FBI
> man. �The FBI man wrote down what Weitzman said and it appears that
> Weitzman was describing the TSBD rifle.....He was NOT describing the
> TSBD rifle he was describing a 7.65 Mauser that apparently was LOADED
> LOADED that they brought to him. �The TSBD rifle was in Washington DC
> on Saturday 11/23 /63.
Walt how does familiarity with guns make me KNOW that a Mauser was
brought into the police station for Weitzman to identify ?
The same FBI reports describe Weitzman's actions from the time the
shots were fired until he left the TSBD and returned to the Sheriff's
office.
There's no proof ANYWHERE ( that I know of, at least ) that the Dallas
cops brought in a 7.65 Mauser and documented Weitzman's examination of
it.
There's no reason for them to do that unless the weapon was connected
to the crime, i.e. found in the building.
Walt
> THIS ONE's REALLY A "KEEPER".
>
> I'll add it to the rest of Wally World's Bullshit "Claims".
>
> I don't suppose Wally world is gonna give any official citation for this one
> EITHER ! ! !
>
> Wally World all by himself eliminates the need for "Snow White & the Seven
> Dwarves". (WCR)
>
Mark lane apparently wasn't aware that the DPD had brought a 7.65
Mauser to Weitzman and let him examine it.
Obviously at the time that Weitzman wrote his affidavit on 11 /23 /63
he "thought that the TSBD rifle was a 7.65 Mauser. I'm convinced that
he did NOT see the TSBD rifle up close at the time it was being
examined bt Fritz and Day in the TSBD. He honestly thought that the
Mannlicher Carcano that had been HIDDEN BENEATH boxes of books was a
7.65 Mauser.
Is it possible that the cops THOUGHT that Weitzman had seen "Mr.
Casters" customized Mauser at some other place in the TSBD and they
were afraid that he'd spill the beans by telling reporters that he'd
seen a nice customized 7.65 Mauser with a large scope on it in the
TSBD.
Something like this must of happened....because that's the only reason
I can see for Captain Fritz handing Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser, and the
FBI making out that report.
It's well documented that the MC that was found in the TSBD was in
Washington DC on saturday 11 /23/63.
Damn, Gil I wish you were working with me in trying to find a solution
to this conundrum.....
Let's say that Weitzman was loose in the TSBD looking for the
suspected sniper. ....Searching room to room. Let's say he went into
Mr caster's office in his search, and Fritz and the other conspirators
THOUGHT that he may have seen Mr Casters Mauser in there. ( Yes, Rob
I know they official story is that Caster had taken his rifles home)
Later when Weitzman reported that he'd seen a 7.65 Mauser the
conspirators jumped to conclusion and assumed that Weitzman was talkin
about seeing that Mauser in Mr. Caster's office. In reality Weitzman
was actually talkin about the rifle that was HIDDEN beneath boxes of
books and just guessed that the TSBD rifle was a GERMAN mauser.
They wanted him on record as saying he was referring to the TSBD MC
when he said he saw a 7.65 mauser. There never was any danger of
Weitzman spilling the beans because He hadn't seen the mauser in MR
Caster's office, but Fritz didn't know that.
> > I agree completely with Mr. Lane's assessment.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Sam McClung
On Oct 8, 9:28?pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> http://assassinat.iquebec.com/misc_180-10115-10327.html
the document in that link says Weitzman saw MORE THAN ONE "railway
employee":
"some railway employees told him they had heard the sounds and
believed they came from the old Texas Building, which is now called
the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building"
But Weitzman mentions seeing only ONE railroad "yardman"
<begin quote>
Mr. BALL. Didn't you, when you went over to the railroad yard, talk to
some
yardman?
Mr. WEITZMAN. I asked a yardman if he had ever seen or heard anything
during
the passing of the President. He said he thought he saw somebody throw
something through a bush and that's when I went back over the fence
and that's
when I found the portion of skull. I thought it was a firecracker
portion;
that's what we were first looking for. This was before we knew the
President
was dead.
<end quote>
So Weitzman confronted Harrelson in Lawrence's nest, with Lawrence's
sniping rifle in the tool box, but Weitzman let Harrelson go too,
Harrelson
then handing the tool box off to Ruby, none of which Weitzman saw,
because
Harrelson sent Weitzman off in the direction of the masonry wall, with
his
comment about someone else doing something suspicious there.
As of the 11-23-63 document mentioning "railway employees sending
Weitzman
in the direction of the TSBD, it was only one person, not plural, and
the person
didn't send Weitzman to the TSBD, Weitzman said
"he thought he saw somebody throw something through a bush and
that's when I went back over the fence."
Weitzman later mentioned seeing Barker on TV as a suspect in the
Watergate burglary,
identifying him as a person who he confronted in Lawrence's sniping
nest,
Barker showing law enforcement credentials, so Weitzman let him go
tomnln
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gil;
"Don't be a sucker".
Especially when it comes to Walt's "CLAIMS">>>
When are you gonna offer Proof of your Lying Stupid Bastard Claims?>>>
Hey Walt;
You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
You never proved that Walker called Germany.
You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
You never proved Walker believed LHO shot at him.
You never proved that Capt O A Jones said LHO shot AT Walker.
You never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was copper
jacketed.
You never proved LHO received a 40 minch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHO shot at Walker.
You never proved that LHO ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHOI altered the chin in CE-133-a.
You never proved your claim that a 6.5 was fired from a "sabot".
You never proved your claim that the CIA was gonna "rescue Oswald".
You never proved your claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
11/22/63.
Walt
> On Oct 16, 2:49 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If you were familiar with guns would know would KNOW that on SATURDAY
> > 11 /23 /63 the DPD cops (Fritz?) brought a 7.65 Mauser with a scope
> > and a sling on it to Weitzman and asked him to describe it for the FBI
> > man. The FBI man wrote down what Weitzman said and it appears that
> > Weitzman was describing the TSBD rifle.....He was NOT describing the
> > TSBD rifle he was describing a 7.65 Mauser that apparently was LOADED
> > LOADED that they brought to him. The TSBD rifle was in Washington DC
> > on Saturday 11/23 /63.
>
> Walt how does familiarity with guns make me KNOW that a Mauser was
> brought into the police station for Weitzman to identify ?
Well Gil. I'm familar with rifles and it's obvious to me that Seymour
weitzman is DESCRIBING a 7.65 Mauser as the gun they handed him for
his inspection.
>
> The same FBI reports describe Weitzman's actions from the time the
> shots were fired until he left the TSBD and returned to the Sheriff's
> office.
>
> There's no proof ANYWHERE ( that I know of, at least ) that the Dallas
> cops brought in a 7.65 Mauser and documented Weitzman's examination of
> it.
Well that's what Weitzman was describing.....
>
> There's no reason for them to do that unless the weapon was connected
> to the crime, i.e. found in the building.
Oh I disagree.... I'm sure they had a motive for giving Weitzman a
7.65 Mauser to examine.
tomnln
On 16 Oct, 14:06, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> THIS ONE's REALLY A "KEEPER".
>
> I'll add it to the rest of Wally World's Bullshit "Claims".
>
> I don't suppose Wally world is gonna give any official citation for this
> one
> EITHER ! ! !
>
> Wally World all by himself eliminates the need for "Snow White & the Seven
> Dwarves". (WCR)
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> news:c2dc7b8c-5f37-4785...@17g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 Oct, 12:54, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 16, 1:14 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > --------------------------------------------
>
> > > Here's Weitzman's "Signed/Notorized Affidavit" dated 11/23/63.>>>
>
> > >http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
>
> > > Your attempts to make excuses for the WCR is Foiled Again.
Wally wrote;
> If you were familiar with guns would know would KNOW that on SATURDAY
> 11 /23 /63 the DPD cops (Fritz?) brought a 7.65 Mauser with a scope
> and a sling on it to Weitzman and asked him to describe it for the FBI
> man. The FBI man wrote down what Weitzman said and it appears that
> Weitzman was describing the TSBD rifle.....He was NOT describing the
> TSBD rifle he was describing a 7.65 Mauser that apparently was LOADED
> LOADED that they brought to him. The TSBD rifle was in Washington DC
> on Saturday 11/23 /63.
I write;
BULLSHIT, Until you PROVE that the FBI showed Weitzman a Mauser on 11/22/63
! !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wally wrote;
> The 64 dollar question is WHY??
> Would they want weitzmant to describe for an FBI report a rifle that
> obviously was NOT the TSBD rifle.
> Were they trying to get him to see the difference between a 7.65
> Mauser and a MC??
> Wre they hoping that he would "accidently" shoot himself with that
> loaded rifle?? There is really something stinky going on
> here.....
I write;
RIIIIIIIGHT ! !
What Stinks is your Repeated Lies to benefit the WCR.
Along with THESE>>>
You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
You never proved that Walker called Germany.
You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
You never proved Walker believed LHO shot at him.
You never proved that Capt O A Jones said LHO shot AT Walker.
You never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was copper
jacketed.
You never proved LHO received a 40 minch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHO shot at Walker.
You never proved that LHO ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHOI altered the chin in CE-133-a.
You never proved your claim that a 6.5 was fired from a "sabot".
You never proved your claim that the CIA was gonna "rescue Oswald".
You never proved your claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
11/22/63.
You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> On 16 Oct, 14:06, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> > THIS ONE's REALLY A "KEEPER".
>
> > I'll add it to the rest of Wally World's Bullshit "Claims".
>
> > I don't suppose Wally world is gonna give any official citation for this
> > one
> > EITHER ! ! !
>
> > Wally World all by himself eliminates the need for "Snow White & the Seven
> > Dwarves". (WCR)
>
> > "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:c2dc7b8c-5f37-4785...@17g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> > On 16 Oct, 12:54, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 16, 1:14 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > > --------------------------------------------
>
> > > > Here's Weitzman's "Signed/Notorized Affidavit" dated 11/23/63.>>>
>
> > > >http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
>
> > > > Your attempts to make excuses for the WCR is Foiled Again.
> Wally wrote;
>
> > If you were familiar with guns would know would KNOW that on SATURDAY
> > 11 /23 /63 the DPD cops (Fritz?) brought a 7.65 Mauser with a scope
> > and a sling on it to Weitzman and asked him to describe it for the FBI
> > man. The FBI man wrote down what Weitzman said and it appears that
> > Weitzman was describing the TSBD rifle.....He was NOT describing the
> > TSBD rifle he was describing a 7.65 Mauser that apparently was LOADED
> > LOADED that they brought to him. The TSBD rifle was in Washington DC
> > on Saturday 11/23 /63.
>
> I write;
>
> BULLSHIT, Until you PROVE that the FBI showed Weitzman a Mauser on 11/22/63
> ! !
tomnln
WHERE does it say in the official records that the FBI showed Weitzman a
Mauser on the night of 11/22/63???
Don't you EVER get tired of lying just to make the WCR look good???
You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
You never proved that Walker called Germany.
You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
You never proved Walker believed LHO shot at him.
You never proved that Capt O A Jones said LHO shot AT Walker.
You never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was copper
jacketed.
You never proved LHO received a 40 minch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHO shot at Walker.
You never proved that LHO ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHOI altered the chin in CE-133-a.
You never proved your claim that a 6.5 was fired from a "sabot".
You never proved your claim that the CIA was gonna "rescue Oswald".
You never proved your claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
11/22/63.
You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:9ba3fae8-c72d-43fa...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
On 16 Oct, 19:16, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> news:f5c6d267-f06d-4181...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 Oct, 14:06, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
Wally wrote;
Tom ....get help... Yer meds arn't workin.....
Maybe if you took those Cub Scouts outta your throat youl'd be able to
answer your LIES Wally.>>>
You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
You never proved that Walker called Germany.
You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
You never proved Walker believed LHO shot at him.
You never proved that Capt O A Jones said LHO shot AT Walker.
You never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was copper
jacketed.
You never proved LHO received a 40 minch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHO shot at Walker.
You never proved that LHO ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHOI altered the chin in CE-133-a.
You never proved your claim that a 6.5 was fired from a "sabot".
You never proved your claim that the CIA was gonna "rescue Oswald".
You never proved your claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
11/22/63.
You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
When you RUN from my comments, you're a Coward.
When you RUN from your own words, You're a SISSY ! !
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
More & More of those LN's are coming to your defense! ! !
(something like "Birds of a Feather")
So far, your Cheerleading Squad amounts to....
chuckie
David V P
mucher
Timmy
justme
JLeyden
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:FDKJk.3000$1r2....@newsfe01.iad...
tomnln
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:t9RJk.30$SH...@newsfe08.iad...
Walt
> On 16 Oct, 13:08, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 16, 11:50 am, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > I've tried to send you a couple of E mails but you've got me blocked
> > > out. ( You told me it was a computer glitch, but I now believe you
> > > lied.... Only a dishonest person would refuse to listen to other
> > > rational and reasonable ideas)
>
> > > Oh well....carry on.
>
> > It WAS a glitch, but after thinking about it, I find that it would be
> > a disservice to the world for me to "hog" the vast knowledge and
> > insight that you feel necessary to share with me only in private e-
> > mails, where there is no challenge from other parties.
>
> > No offense, but I like it better in a forum arrangement, where nothing
> > is off the table.
>
> Well OK.... Here's what I wrote :
>
> Gil, It's a shame that you have such a closed mind about the 7.65
> rifle. You are one of only two people in this NG who I believe is
> knowledgable and rational. I know that I can't change your mind
> about Roger Craig's veracity because that is something only you can
> do. However, I'd ask you to seriously THINK about your position.
> And I'd ask you to ask yourself: If the conspirators were framing
> Oswald would they plant a rifle that had no known connection to
> Oswald?
Walt Wrote:
You have to face the fact that they knew that there was a paper trail
of the purchase of a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano that led to Oswald. And
they knew there was a Back Yard photo showing Oswald holding a
Mannlicher Carcano ...so it why would they plant a totally different
rifle??? Does this really seem logical to you??-
Several posters have attacked me for posting the above
statement.....Calling me a liar.
I'm utterly amazed at how blind some people can be ..... What I posted
are the facts. It is a FACT that the paper trail for the purchase of
the rifle led to Oswald... That is a FACT. Whether a person believes
that paper trail was legitmate is another story.
Since that paper trail led to Oswald and a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano
with the serial # C2766..... Do you think the conspirators would
plant a 7.65 Mauser in the TSBD if they intended to make it look like
Oswald was the man who shot JFK??
If you believe that the planted rifle was a 7.65 Mauser, I'd like to
hear the logic you used in arriving at that conclusion.
Walt
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> news:3a850496-c51f-47fd...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 Oct, 19:16, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:f5c6d267-f06d-4181...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > On 16 Oct, 14:06, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
And when YOU solicit sex with other men, you're a pervert and queer.
I can repost you solicitation if you've forgotten in your demenia
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Walt
>
>
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------
>
> > Here's Weitzman's "Signed/Notorized Affidavit" dated 11/23/63.>>>
>
> >http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
>
> > Your attempts to make excuses for the WCR is Foiled Again.
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------
>
making excuse for the WC isn't even logical.
> First, Walt said that Weitzman was mistaken about the type of rifle.
> And that every other officer who wrote reports on the discovery of the
> rifle went with Weitzman's misidentifcation rather than look at the
> rifle himself.
That's correct....They did accept Weitzman's declaration. and they did
that because nobody there was familar with the rather rare Mannlicner
Carcano. It wasn't, and isn't, a very popular rifle, and it was
simply stamped "MADE ITALY" That stamp certainly gave no clue as to
what kind of rifle it was. I does somewhat resemble a mauser so when
Weitzman offered his guess it was accepted without question by all who
heard him make that declaration.
He used the "4/18 scope" in Weitzman's report as proof that the rifle
he saw was a Mannlicher Carcano.
No I didn't.... you are mistaken
>
> But Weitzman testified to the WC that he originally thought the scope
> was a 2.5 Weaver, where's THAT in his report ?
Good point..... If Weitzman thought the scope was a 2.5 Weaver why is
the scope referred to as a Japanese made 4X in the FBI report?
How did he look long enough at the scope to get it right and not even
look at the rifle ?
>
> Did Walt know that when the FBI received the rifle that the scope was
> "loose" ?
Yes I knew that.....That's one of the very early arguments that the
Mannlicher Carcano could not have been fired accurately because the
scope was loose and mounted crooked.
That the excuse used for the loose scope was that it was removed for
the dusting for fingerprints ?
>
> What a bunch of BS.....Who's fingerprints did they expect to find UNDER the scope, that they had to remove it ?
It's logical to remove the scope to look for finger prints on the
assumption that the man who mounted the scope might have deposited a
finger print on the receiver while mounting the scope. They expected
to find LHO's prints there. I'm sure they were disappointed......
>
> Could the scopes from the Mauser and MC rifles been switched ?
NO!.... The mounts are totally different for a Mauser and a Carcano.
>
> I believe they were.
Well that belief is based on ignorance
>
> Next, Walt says that Weitzman only GLANCED at the rifle, yet the FBI
> reports indicate that Weitzman's own description of the rifle was
> pretty detailed,
I agree that FBI report was pretty detailed..... The rifle being
described in that report is a 7.65 Mauser.....
What will you bet that it wasn't Weitzman who described the rifle in
that report?? Yes, I know the description is attributed to Weitzman
but it's far more likely that the FBI man (Brown?) actually looked at
a 7.65 Mauser and took the liberty of writing down HIS discription of
the rifle that he THOUGHT was just like the rifle that had been found
in the TSBD. (Remember ...that there was still a lot of confusion
about the name of that rifle on Saturday. It was widely reported that
the rifle was a Mauser)
even describing the clip and how and where it was
> attached.
This feature is one of the items that identifies the rifle being
described as a Mauser.
They also implied with the phrase " Capt. Fritz appeared and
> took the rifle from him " that Weitzman had actually handled the rifle
> and examined it.
Do you really believe that Weitzman handled the rifle at the time it
was found??
Can you produce even ONE statement from any cop or reporter that was
up there at the time that says Weitzman or anybody bur Fritz and DAY
handled that gun???
>
> Next, Walt says that that was what the FBI said he said, and asking
> for Weitzman's sworn affidavit. But Weitzman's affidavit said the same
> thing as his police report, that the rifle was a Mauser with a 4/18
> scope.
Actually the FBI report doesn't say that the scope is a 4 X 18... You
can read that again
>
> Weitzman LIED when he said that he didn't get a good look at the
> rifle. The documents indicate that he DID examine it close enough to
> give a detailed description to the FBI.
I disagree....I believe Weitzman told the truth and he did only get a
glimpse of the TSBD rifle. It appears to me that someone ( The FBI
man) was putting words in Weitzman's mouth when that report was
written.
robcap...@netscape.com
Oh boy, ANOTHER LIE. Tom, you may need a SECOND page soon or another
whole website for Walt's lies! :-)
Walt
wrote:
Hey Rob.... Yer gonna hafta learn to discern the difference between a
lie and a mistake. I realize that there is no difference in your
mind, When you lie it's simple a mistake, which you will not admit
making. But when someone else makes a simple mistake it's a lie in
your mind.
When I wrote this statement yesterday ..."Oh I disagree.... I'm sure
they had a motive for giving Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser to examine."... I
was trying to make sense outta nonsense. It seemed to me at that time
that they must have given Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and had him describe
it for that FBO report. I now think it's far more likely that the
FBI man who wrote that report simply inserted HIS discription of a
7.65 Mauser into that report and made it appear to be Weitzman's
words.
Walt
WARNING.... BEWARE Rob...Tom has been known to solicit sex with other
men on the internet. You should be on guard, because he' may want you
to perform fallatio on him.
tomnln
>
When you RUN from my comments, you're a Coward.
When you RUN from your own words, You're a SISSY ! !
Wally wrote;
And when YOU solicit sex with other men, you're a pervert and queer.
I can repost you solicitation if you've forgotten in your demenia
I write;
Every once in a while my balls get heavy from Servicing your wife.
I like to Rest them on YOUR Chinny-Chin-Chin ! ! ! !
*****************
When you RUN from my comments, you're a Coward.
When you RUN from your own words, You're a SISSY ! !
*****************
You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
You never proved that Walker called Germany.
You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
You never proved Walker believed LHO shot at him.
You never proved that Capt O A Jones said LHO shot AT Walker.
You never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was copper
jacketed.
You never proved LHO received a 40 minch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHO shot at Walker.
You never proved that LHO ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved your claim that LHOI altered the chin in CE-133-a.
You never proved your claim that a 6.5 was fired from a "sabot".
You never proved your claim that the CIA was gonna "rescue Oswald".
You never proved your claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
11/22/63.
You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
robcap...@netscape.com
I learned at your feet John/Walt and Ben's, you two gave me NO mercy
when I first got here. A mistake can happen to all of us, and does,
but you are on a "Guiness Book Record" pace for them if all your
claims are just MISTAKES!!
> When I wrote this statement yesterday ..."Oh I disagree.... I'm sure
> they had a motive for giving Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser to examine."... I
> was trying to make sense outta nonsense. It seemed to me at that time
> that they must have given Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and had him describe
> it for that FBO report. I now think it's far more likely that the
> FBI man who wrote that report simply inserted HIS discription of a
> 7.65 Mauser into that report and made it appear to be Weitzman's
> words.
You were doing more than "trying to make sense out of it" as you were
once again claiming something to be true that was NOT. You could have
said this yesterday, but you defended your position. So admit you
were full of crap or ante up some proof.
robcap...@netscape.com
Oh boy, he has to be John. I won't even comment on this one.
Walt
Yes, I agree ...... There's not even a hint that Fritz ever let
Weitzman handle ANY rifle.
And of course Fritz didn't do that.... what we have is false
information in an FBI report. Which causes problems in clearing away
the smoke surrounding the 7.65 Mauser issue.
I'm not sure if the FBI was intending to smoke up the isue or if it
was just a dumb mistake on his part. I believe that he THOUGHT that
the rifle found by Deputy Boone, HIDDEN BENEATH boxes of books in the
TSBD was a 7.65 Mauser, so he merely inserted a more detailed
description of a Mauser which he thought was the rifle found.
Walt
> Dam It Walt;
>
> WHERE does it say in the official records that the FBI showed Weitzman a
> Mauser on the night of 11/22/63???
>
> Don't you EVER get tired of lying just to make the WCR look good???
Hey you senile, old, homosexual, pervert, I'd tell you to kiss my ass,
except I don't want to get you aroused, and I certainly don't want you
anywhere near me.
>
> You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
> When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
> You never proved that Walker called Germany.
> You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
> You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
> You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
> You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
> You never proved Walker believed LHO shot at him.
> You never proved that Capt O A Jones said LHO shot AT Walker.
> You never proved that the bullet recovered from Walker shooting was copper
> jacketed.
> You never proved LHO received a 40 minch rifle.
> You never proved your claim that LHO shot at Walker.
> You never proved that LHO ordered a 40 inch rifle.
> You never proved your claim that LHOI altered the chin in CE-133-a.
> You never proved your claim that a 6.5 was fired from a "sabot".
> You never proved your claim that the CIA was gonna "rescue Oswald".
> You never proved your claim that the DPD showed Weitzman a Mauser on
> 11/22/63.
>
> You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
> > 7.65 Mauser to examine.- Hide quoted text -
tomnln
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:2ed31718-12d7-4bec...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I write;
Amazing how all of Wally's Lies Benefit the WCR ! ! ! !
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
Another keeper for the Wally World Page ! ! !
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:742f9172-953e-4438...@v53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
I for one would like to know WHERE he gets all this Bullshit???
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:742f9172-953e-4438...@v53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Wally wrote;
WARNING.... BEWARE Rob...Tom has been known to solicit sex with other
men on the internet. You should be on guard, because he' may want you
to perform fallatio on him.
I write;
NOT as long as you & your wife are still alive Wally ! ! !
NOW, are you gonna offer support for your LIES?>>>
tomnln
I Write;
Ask Wally to address these LIES of his>>>
tomnln
Scientific
Wild
Ass
GUESS
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:76ce6a06-0ef6-441c...@l76g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
SEE 17 of them below.
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:3c6b8c8a-c7b4-4ebf...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Walt
> NO PROOF for Another Wally World INVENTION ! ! !
Eh?? What??? I can't hear you ..... There's a microphone under my
dog's tail. Speak into that microphone.
>
>
>
> > "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
> > words.- Hide quoted text -
tomnln
On 17 Oct, 13:37, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> NO PROOF for Another Wally World INVENTION ! ! !
Eh?? What??? I can't hear you ..... There's a microphone under my
dog's tail. Speak into that microphone.
Keep RUNNIN you big WHIMP>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm