The 45 Questions - One by One (#37)
Ben Holmes
Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only
purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message
threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.
These trolls include (but are not limited to):
Baldoni
Bigdog
Bill
Brokedad
Bud
Burlyguard
Cdddraftsman
Chuck Schuyler
Chu...@amcmn.com
Curious
David Von Pein
Ed Dolan *
Grizzlie Antagonist
Justme1952
Martybaugh...@gmail.com
Miss Rita
much...@hotmail.com
much...@gmail.com
Sam Brown
Spiffy_one
Timst...@Gmail.com
Todd W. Vaughan
YoHarvey
Please beware when seeing their responses, and note that they will simply deny
the facts I mention, demand citations that I've provided before, or simply run
with insults. These trolls are only good material for the kill files.
* Eddie 'Disgrace' Dolan is an exception - he *should* be killfiled, but he's
amusing! And being a former Marine, even a disgraced one, is a plus.
The newest troll is "Rob Caprio" - who is sort of a reverse troll, claiming to
be a CT'er - but only going after other CT'ers. Note that he'll jump in to each
post, but refuse to answer the question.
**********************************************************************
37. "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his
clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee, Frankie Kaiser,
found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth
floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR
143)
Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's
edition.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the plain open
boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just noticed it
laying over there.
Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or 6 inches,
something like that.
Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's the stairs
right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs this way going up
and here's the and it was laying fight in here by the cards--there are about
four or five cards, I guess, running in front of it--just laying between the
part you go down and the part you go up.
Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway down?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)
BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the location
of the three cartridges?
Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes longer--after
Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there, Captain Fritz picked up the
cartridges, began to examine them, of course I left that particular area. By
that time there was a number of officers up there. The floor was covered with
officers. And we were searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H
289)
The WC simply lied, when trying to disguise the fact that the many policemen
that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a clipboard
that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all. The
clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an entire working week went by before it was
"discovered". Can anyone defend this curious lie of the Warren Commission?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
j leyden
> The WC simply lied, when trying to disguise the fact that the many policemen
> that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a clipboard
> that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all.
I don't know why I bother but we're back to Ben's repeated allegation
that the "WC simply lied." (Ben thinks everyone is a liar which tells
you something about Ben.) I know you may think that, Ben, but as I
said before you need to prove that the WC deliberately told an untruth
for the purpose of deception. You can't do that but that won't stop
you because you're only here to post a link to your "Make a Million on
the internet" website. Shame on you!
JGL
Ben Holmes
leyden says...
>
>On Jan 31, 2:21=EF=BF=BDpm, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>
>> The WC simply lied, when trying to disguise the fact that the many police=
>men
>> that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a cli=
>pboard
>> that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all.
>
>
>
>I don't know why I bother but we're back to Ben's repeated allegation
>that the "WC simply lied." (Ben thinks everyone is a liar which tells
>you something about Ben.) I know you may think that, Ben, but as I
>said before you need to prove that the WC deliberately told an untruth
>for the purpose of deception. You can't do that but that won't stop
>you because you're only here to post a link to your "Make a Million on
>the internet" website. Shame on you!
>
>JGL
Still no answers...
Denying the facts can't be confused with a reasonable explanation.
>> **********************************************************************
>> Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's on=
>ly
>> purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change m=
>> Please beware when seeing their responses, and note that they will simply=
> deny
>> the facts I mention, demand citations that I've provided before, or simpl=
>y run
>> with insults. These trolls are only good material for the kill files.
>>
>> * Eddie 'Disgrace' Dolan is an exception - he *should* be killfiled, but =
>he's
>> amusing! And being a former Marine, even a disgraced one, is a plus.
>>
>> The newest troll is "Rob Caprio" - who is sort of a reverse troll, claimi=
>ng to
>> be a CT'er - but only going after other CT'ers. Note that he'll jump in t=
>o each
>> post, but refuse to answer the question.
>> **********************************************************************
>>
>> 37. "The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his
>> clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee, Frankie =
>Kaiser,
>> found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the s=
>ixth
>> floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (=
>WCR
>> 143)
>>
>> Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's
>> edition.
>> Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
>> Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the plai=
>n open
>> boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just notice=
>d it
>> laying over there.
>> Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
>> Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
>> Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
>> Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
>> Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
>> Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or 6 i=
>nches,
>> something like that.
>> Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
>> Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
>> Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
>> Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
>> Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
>> Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's the s=
>tairs
>> right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs this way goin=
>g up
>> and here's the and it was laying fight in here by the cards--there are ab=
>out
>> four or five cards, I guess, running in front of it--just laying between =
>the
>> part you go down and the part you go up.
>> Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway down?
>> Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)
>>
>> BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the lo=
>cation
>> of the three cartridges?
>> Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes longer--aft=
>er
>> Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there, Captain Fritz picked=
> up the
>> cartridges, began to examine them, of course I left that particular area.=
> By
>> that time there was a number of officers up there. The floor was covered =
>with
>> officers. And we were searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. =
>(3H
>> 289)
>>
>> The WC simply lied, when trying to disguise the fact that the many police=
>men
>> that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a cli=
>pboard
>> that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all. =EF=
>=BF=BDThe
>> clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an entire working week went by before it=
> was
>> "discovered". =EF=BF=BDCan anyone defend this curious lie of the Warren C=
John McAdams
wrote:
Your "liar, liar" rhetoric is really pathological, Ben.
You never read "The Purloined Letter," did you?
In the wake of a shooting, the cops were intent on finding a gun, and
shells. The idea that a clipboard might be important evidence is just
not something they thought about.
.John
--
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Ben Holmes
Perhaps it seems so, to a pathological liar.
>You never read "The Purloined Letter," did you?
>
>In the wake of a shooting, the cops were intent on finding a gun, and
>shells. The idea that a clipboard might be important evidence is just
>not something they thought about.
Still no reasonable, non-conspiratorial explanation for the lies told by the WC.
>.John
yeuhd
Ben also does not consider that the cartons in the northwest corner of
the sixth floor may have been moved around and/or removed in the
course of work since November 22, dropping the once hidden clipboard
to the ground. As Ben himself says, an entire work week had gone by.
John McAdams
wrote:
Out of arguments, and unable to explain how any of what he outlined is
sinister, Ben simply retreats to unsupported assertion.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Ben Holmes
You haven't dealt with the original one, John. The WC clearly told a whopper,
and you can't explain that curious fact.
>and unable to explain how any of what he outlined is
>sinister,
No John... not "sinister"... a lie. Can you say "lie?" Can you recognize writing
that is contrary to the known facts?
Can you supply a reasonable, non-conspiratorial explanation for the known facts,
and why the WC lied about them?
>Ben simply retreats to unsupported assertion.
What's "unsupported" John? Did you not figure out where the eyewitness testimony
I quoted came from? Does the reference to WCR 143 confuse you? Do references
such as (6H 343) or (3H 289) boggle your mind?
When you try to convince people that I'm providing an "unsupported assertion",
you must think your audience has the intelligence you imagine for "buffs".
>.John
>--------------
>http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
And still... no answer.
Ben Holmes
yeuhd says...
>
>On Feb 9, 1:58=A0pm, john.mcad...@marquette.edu (John McAdams) wrote:
>> On 31 Jan 2010 11:21:50 -0800, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>s
>> >clipboard became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee, Frankie=
> Kaiser,
>> >found a clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the =
>sixth
>> >floor at the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." =
>(WCR
>> >143)
>>
>> >Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's
>> >edition.
>> >Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
>in open
>> >boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just notic=
>ed it
>> >laying over there.
>> >Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
>> >Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
>> >Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
>> >Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
>> >Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
>inches,
>> >something like that.
>> >Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
>> >Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
>> >Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
>> >Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
>> >Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
>stairs
>> >right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs this way goi=
>ng up
>> >and here's the and it was laying fight in here by the cards--there are a=
>bout
>> >four or five cards, I guess, running in front of it--just laying between=
> the
>> >part you go down and the part you go up.
>> >Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway down?
>> >Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)
>>
>ocation
>> >of the three cartridges?
>ter
>> >Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there, Captain Fritz picke=
>d up the
>> >cartridges, began to examine them, of course I left that particular area=
>. By
>> >that time there was a number of officers up there. The floor was covered=
> with
>> >officers. And we were searching, trying to find the weapon at that time.=
> (3H
>> >289)
>>
>> >The WC simply lied, when trying to disguise the fact that the many polic=
>emen
>> >that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a cl=
>ipboard
>> >that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all. =
>=A0The
>> >clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an entire working week went by before i=
>t was
>> >"discovered". =A0Can anyone defend this curious lie of the Warren Commis=
>sion?
>>
>> Your "liar, liar" rhetoric is really pathological, Ben.
>>
>> You never read "The Purloined Letter," did you?
>>
>> In the wake of a shooting, the cops were intent on finding a gun, and
>> not something they thought about.
>
>Ben also does not consider that the cartons in the northwest corner of
>the sixth floor may have been moved around and/or removed in the
>course of work since November 22, dropping the once hidden clipboard
>to the ground. As Ben himself says, an entire work week had gone by.
Then all you have to do is provide a citation to the eyewitness evidence, photo
evidence, ANY evidence... that the WC relied on when making their assertion that
the clipboard was hidden by boxes.
Until you can do that, you have a clear and blatant lie on the part of the WC
that you can't explain... nor even try to explain.
John McAdams
wrote:
>In article <ul64n55veom13kn2b...@4ax.com>, John McAdams says...
>>
>>On 9 Feb 2010 13:13:56 -0800, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The WC simply lied, when trying to disguise the fact that the many policemen
>>>>>that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a clipboard
>>>>>that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all. The
>>>>>clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an entire working week went by before it was
>>>>>"discovered". Can anyone defend this curious lie of the Warren Commission?
>>>>
>>>>Your "liar, liar" rhetoric is really pathological, Ben.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You never read "The Purloined Letter," did you?
>>>>
>>>>In the wake of a shooting, the cops were intent on finding a gun, and
>>>>shells. The idea that a clipboard might be important evidence is just
>>>>not something they thought about.
>>>
>>>
>>> Still no reasonable, non-conspiratorial explanation for the lies told
>>> by the WC.
>>
>>Out of arguments,
>
Note that he clipped this.
Ben has no explanation as to why cops, looking around for a gun, for
rounds or spent cartridges were supposed to particularly notice or
care about a clipboard.
>
>You haven't dealt with the original one, John. The WC clearly told a whopper,
>and you can't explain that curious fact.
>
How was it a "whopper?"
If cops found the clipboard on the day of the assassination, there was
no reason not to produce it.
>
>>and unable to explain how any of what he outlined is
>>sinister,
>
>
>No John... not "sinister"... a lie. Can you say "lie?" Can you recognize writing
>that is contrary to the known facts?
>
If there was no *reason* to tell a lie, it becomes hard to believe
that they lied.
Your little world really is pathological. Everybody is a liar -- or
at least anybody who says anything you find inconvenient.
And that's a *lot* of people!
>Can you supply a reasonable, non-conspiratorial explanation for the known facts,
>and why the WC lied about them?
>
>
>>Ben simply retreats to unsupported assertion.
>
>What's "unsupported" John? Did you not figure out where the eyewitness testimony
>I quoted came from? Does the reference to WCR 143 confuse you? Do references
>such as (6H 343) or (3H 289) boggle your mind?
>
The testimony showed that the clipboard was discovered several days
after the assassination.
So what?
>When you try to convince people that I'm providing an "unsupported assertion",
>you must think your audience has the intelligence you imagine for "buffs".
>
>
You haven't proven that anybody lied. You seem to be looking for
liars under every bed and behind every bush.
Ben Holmes
>
>On 9 Feb 2010 21:11:40 -0800, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <ul64n55veom13kn2b...@4ax.com>, John McAdams says...
>>>
>>>On 9 Feb 2010 13:13:56 -0800, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The WC simply lied, when trying to disguise the fact that the many policemen
>>>>>>that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a clipboard
>>>>>>that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all. The
>>>>>>clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an entire working week went by before it was
>>>>>>"discovered". Can anyone defend this curious lie of the Warren Commission?
>>>>>
>>>>>Your "liar, liar" rhetoric is really pathological, Ben.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You never read "The Purloined Letter," did you?
>>>>>
>>>>>In the wake of a shooting, the cops were intent on finding a gun, and
>>>>>shells. The idea that a clipboard might be important evidence is just
>>>>>not something they thought about.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still no reasonable, non-conspiratorial explanation for the lies told
>>>> by the WC.
>>>
>>>Out of arguments,
>>
>
>Note that he clipped this.
No stupid, I inserted a comment at the appropriate place.
You, on the other hand, continue to simply snip without notice anything you
don't like.
>Ben has no explanation as to why cops, looking around for a gun, for
>rounds or spent cartridges were supposed to particularly notice or
>care about a clipboard.
Evading the question, aren't you? This has *NOTHING* to do with the original
question.
Why not get back to the actual lie told by the WC?
>>You haven't dealt with the original one, John. The WC clearly told a whopper,
>>and you can't explain that curious fact.
>
>How was it a "whopper?"
Evading the question won't convince anyone, John.
>If cops found the clipboard on the day of the assassination, there was
>no reason not to produce it.
Why are you simply ignoring the whopper told by the WC, John? Why can't you
explain the obvious contradiction?
>>>and unable to explain how any of what he outlined is
>>>sinister,
>>
>>
>>No John... not "sinister"... a lie. Can you say "lie?" Can you recognize
>> writing that is contrary to the known facts?
>
>If there was no *reason* to tell a lie, it becomes hard to believe
>that they lied.
But there *WAS* a reason, John.
That's why you continue to refuse to even try providing a reasonable and
non-conspiratorial explanation for the evidence I list.
>Your little world really is pathological. Everybody is a liar -- or
>at least anybody who says anything you find inconvenient.
>
>And that's a *lot* of people!
Which eyewitness told nothing but the truth in 1963-64 John?
>>Can you supply a reasonable, non-conspiratorial explanation for the known facts,
>>and why the WC lied about them?
>>
>>
>>>Ben simply retreats to unsupported assertion.
>>
>>What's "unsupported" John? Did you not figure out where the eyewitness testimony
>>I quoted came from? Does the reference to WCR 143 confuse you? Do references
>>such as (6H 343) or (3H 289) boggle your mind?
>>
>
>The testimony showed that the clipboard was discovered several days
>after the assassination.
>
>So what?
I asked you a clear and obviously understandable question, John. Why can't you
answer it?
You asserted I gave an "unsupported assertion" - you're a liar, John.
>>When you try to convince people that I'm providing an "unsupported assertion",
>>you must think your audience has the intelligence you imagine for "buffs".
>
>You haven't proven that anybody lied. You seem to be looking for
>liars under every bed and behind every bush.
What the WC described is contrary to their own evidence John. You're too much of
a kook to admit it.
>.John