Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 13)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From April 2006, June
2006, and July 2006.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- Evidence and ideas are as useless in
the troll's world as a match is in hell.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- And common sense and logical-thinking are as
useless to a conspiracy-loving kook as a mime was to Ray Charles.
A good example of "CT-Kook Interpretation" of events presents itself
during a certain airport video clip taken at Love Field showing Secret
Service Agent Henry Rybka being told to come away from the Presidential
limousine just as the motorcade is getting underway.
The video's narrator says that the "two" agents being recalled off of
JFK's bumper (even though it appears that Emory Roberts in the SS car
is only signalling to Rybka; Clint Hill appears to have returned to his
running-board position on his own) were originally part of JFK's
"bodyguards" assigned to be "human shields" to protect the President,
and that both agents (including Clint Hill) were assigned to ride JFK's
bumper during the ENTIRE motorcade drive through Dallas.
That statement from that particular video in question is overblown and
just flat-out wrong. There are many films of various JFK motorcades,
and I have NEVER seen two agents constantly riding on the back of JFK's
car. The President wouldn't have permitted that anyway. He hated the
agents riding the bumpers.
As Clint Hill later explained, the agents only rode the bumper of the
President's car when the situation warranted doing so...but certainly
not all the time (nor even most of the time).
Does this mean that SS protocol was violated in all of the many OTHER
parades too (including Kennedy's Inauguration parade in 1961)? Where's
the "conspiratorial Secret Service stand-down" in all of those many
other instances where we DON'T see any agents riding Kennedy's bumper?
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CTer -- Hale Boggs suddenly vanished in an airplane crash in 1972.
DVP -- Yeah, that's certainly a "Mystery Death", isn't it? The "Death
Squad" conspirators must have thought it was wise to wait 9 years to
get rid of that guy Boggs. I guess they just crossed their fingers and
hoped that he wouldn't say anything in those nine years to expose the
"plot".
That makes about as much sense as waiting to kill assassination
eyewitness Lee Bowers, who died in a car crash three months AFTER he
had already been filmed by Mark Lane telling "conspiratorial" stuff.
But why would anybody bother to rub out Bowers at that point in time?
He was already ON FILM having gabbed about stuff that any "plotters"
would want kept quiet!
~LOL~
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CTer -- Of course, the classic was the DVP response that there must be
a Lone Assassin explanation or else a brilliant man like {Vincent T.}
Bugliosi wouldn't believe in a Lone Assassin and surely his book will
answer the question. C'mon!!!
DVP (April 2006) -- Yes, I have basically said that, and shall stand by
that belief, because I think it's 100% true.
Conspiracy addicts, on the other side of the coin, are forced to
disagree with my VB assessment, with those CTers thinking (evidently)
that Vince is stupid enough or enough of a WC/LN brown-nosing "robot"
to take 20+ years to write an LN book about the JFK case, when he MUST
know that everything he's writing is pure crap.
I cannot wrap myself around that latter "CT logic" re. Vince Bugliosi
(particular VB, of all people). Never have. Never will.
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CTer -- You know where Oswald was aiming? You know it for sure? How do
you know?
DVP -- I don't know to the exact SQUARE INCH where on JFK's body Oswald
was aiming, and neither do you. And I never claimed to know such an
impossible-to-determine thing.
But it's fairly obvious (via plain old common sense) that Oswald was
NOT aiming at the car's rear license plate, or at Jackie, or at Jean
Hill, or at Charles Brehm. He was aiming at JFK, and aiming to kill. So
where do you think he was aiming? His hands perhaps? Or his feet?
Sheesh.
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CTer -- Tell me what time Oswald left his rooming house?
DVP -- The exact time is unknown (quite obviously), since nobody was
taking detailed notes as to exactly when (to the precise minute) they
saw LHO on 11/22/63; and, of course, nobody had a stopwatch on him
either, as he was walking and/or running from Beckley Avenue to Tenth
Street in Oak Cliff that day.
But the best guess is that Oswald left his roominghouse at approx. 1:03
or 1:04 PM (CST). My guess is it was even earlier than that; because
there's no way (IMO) he was fiddling around in that shoebox-sized room
for "3 or 4 minutes", per housekeeper Earlene Roberts' account. There
would be absolutely no reason (logically-speaking) for Oswald to have
been in that room for more than 30 seconds at most.
Was Mrs. Roberts lying? Of course she wasn't. But people have a habit
of stretching out time estimates to (incorrect) lengthier guesses when
they're asked to re-create "timelines".
I can think of two classic examples of such "time stretching" within
the JFK case alone. One being J.C. Price, who claimed the gunshots were
possibly "5 minutes" apart. And then there's James Altgens' "less than
30 seconds"
estimate of the shooting timeline.
Yes, Altgens was technically correct in this estimate, but a
much-better estimate, quite obviously, would not have included the
ridiculously-lengthy guess of "30 seconds" within such a piece of
guesswork. Those extra CT-created gunmen must have REALLY been popping
away with their 4 or 5 rifles indeed, for it to have taken
half-a-minute (or "5 minutes" even!) to dispose of their one target.
~LOL!~
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CTer -- Tell me exactly how far {it was} from the rooming house to 10th
& Patton.
DVP -- 0.85 miles. (Via Warren Commission Exhibit CE1119-A; Insert A.)
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CTer -- Tell me exactly what time Tippit was killed.
DVP -- That can only be estimated as well. But this "estimate" can
certainly be whittled down to a very few minutes, based on the official
Dallas Police radio logs (which we can only assume have the correct
time stamped to each transmission). Officer Tippit, therefore, was
definitely killed sometime shortly before 1:16 PM.
The whole notion that Oswald was innocent of J.D. Tippit's murder, as
many CTers believe, because he didn't have enough time to reach the
murder site, is completely a moot point based on the wealth of evidence
at 10th & Patton.....
E.g.,
1.) Multiple witnesses watching Oswald killing the officer, plus even
more people seeing Oswald (via positive I.D.) flee the scene, revolver
in hand, dumping shells along the way.
2.) The bullet shells from Oswald's gun that some conspiracy kooks,
evidently, will foolishly insist were planted.
3.) Oswald's suspicious behavior after he killed Tippit.
4.) Oswald being arrested with the Tippit murder weapon on him in the
Texas Theater, wherein he pulls out the gun and fights like a wild man.
This guy named Oswald sure seemed to be guilty of something here. Was
he willing to burn for murder just because he didn't pay the measly
movie-ticket fee?
The Warren Commission found that Oswald's under-one-mile trek from
Beckley to 10th Street could "easily" have been done (WR; Pg. 648).
Also: "Time tests of all of Oswald's movements establish that these
movements could have been accomplished in the time available to him."
-- WR; Pg. 649
Only a CT-Kook would demand absolute to-the-second exactness regarding
"timeline" evidence, when such exactitude is impossible to achieve.
But, then again, that's part of what makes those type of conspiracists
"kooks" in my estimation -- i.e., unreasonable demands so that they can
make mountains out of anthills and make guilty murderers seem innocent.
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CTer -- Can you absolutely be sure that he {Tippit} wasn't BM {"Badge
Man"}?
DVP -- Beautiful. I now have to prove that Officer Tippit DIDN'T shoot
at JFK, instead of you proving that he DID. Nice.
I also love the "Twin Tale" of CT-ism that exists within the
above-referenced quote. In that single sentence, that CTer is
suggesting two things that never happened:
1.) The existence of a "Badge Man" assassin on the Grassy Knoll.
And:
2.) The allegation that J.D. Tippit (an innocent murder victim himself
in the 1963 Dallas tragedy) was somehow involved in the killing of the
President.
This appears to be a case of trying to kill two CT birds with one hunk
of "Badge Man" guesswork.
And, yes, the weight of the evidence re. Tippit's movements on 11/22/63
certainly suggests that he was not even close to Dealey Plaza at 12:30
PM. But don't let that tidbit stop you kooks from accusing him of
various evil deeds. Please.
There are ZERO pieces of evidence to support Tippit's "involvement" in
JFK's death, which must mean (per the rabid CT supporters) that Tippit
WAS involved.*
* = It's that "badge" thing I guess. If there had been a little pair of
wings painted into the Badge Man fuzziness, then the kooks would
probably be saying it was David Ferrie behind that fence. Ferrie was a
pilot you see; so who else COULD it have been, per the CT thought
process. A drawn-in Fedora would have equalled Jack Ruby as the Knoll
shooter. A really skinny gunman drawn into the Mary Moorman Polaroid
photo would have meant Frank Sinatra was taking aim. It's obvious.
There's nothing uglier than a pro-conspiracy kook who wants to smear
J.D. Tippit and free Saint Oswald too. A double-bill of absurdity.
Wanna try for a triple-bill and place Tippit's wife in the Dal-Tex with
a gun too?
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CTer -- Here's your chance to convince me that Oswald killed Tippit.
DVP -- Any reasonable person looking at the evidence in the Tippit case
wouldn't require another person to "convince" them. I guess this means
that you are not a "reasonable" person who has looked at all of the
evidence that undeniably spells "Oswald Did It".
If you truly believe that Lee Harvey Oswald is innocent of J.D.
Tippit's slaying you probably belong in a padded room.
lazu...@webtv.net
is still 0.