Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory"
David Von Pein
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/jesse-ventura.html
BTW, speaking of "myths that never die":
Did you aaj posters see the recent Jesse Ventura JFK assassination
episode on Jesse's TV series called "Conspiracy Theory"?
Many of the same old myths, long ago debunked, were dragged out by
Ventura for his "TruTV" program (embedded at the bottom of the webpage
linked above), such as the nonsense about Lee Harvey Oswald not being
able to pull off the shooting of JFK in the time that was allotted
him.
Ventura, however, for some reason didn't stick to the oft-used myth of
LHO having only 5.6 seconds to get off his three shots with his
Mannlicher-Carcano. Instead, Jesse pulled a different figure out of
thin air: 6.3 seconds.
So, I will give Ventura credit for adding seven-tenths of a second to
the timing myth, although I have no idea where he came up with his
"6.3 seconds" figure.
The Warren Commission, of course, was never boxing itself in to
accepting a shooting timeline of only 5.6 seconds (or even 6.3), and
Page #117 of the Warren Report easily disproves the often-repeated
"5.6 seconds" myth, with the Commission stating, plain as day, that if
either the FIRST or the THIRD shot was the shot that missed President
Kennedy (which the Commission certainly did not rule out), then the
time for the entire shooting would therefore, quite obvious, increase
accordingly, up to a possible 7.9 seconds, per the Warren Commission's
investigation:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0071a.htm
Ventura himself made three attempts (on camera) to duplicate Oswald's
shooting performance (which Jesse said was 6.3 seconds). On his first
attempt, Jesse did everything he could to make firing his Carcano seem
like it was more difficult than building the Pyramids, and as a result
of this obvious stretched-out fakery, Jesse's first time was a
ridiculous 11.17 seconds.
He then did get better on his second and third attempts, scoring times
of 8.84 seconds and 8.79 seconds for three shots (while, as he
admitted, achieving multiple "hits" on the target below him, including
a "head shot" too).
Now, when we examine the truth regarding the actual amount of time
that Lee Harvey Oswald had on 11/22/63 to get off his three shots at
the President from the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas, which
was very likely a total time of approximately 8.4 seconds, and then
compare that figure with the last two attempts made by ex-Minnesota
Governor Jesse Ventura, we can see that Jesse came very close to
Oswald's time -- missing LHO's 8.4-second time by only about 0.4
seconds.
And Jesse said that his three attempts at duplicating Oswald's feat
were "nowhere near" Oswald's time. Ventura also said: "This is fucking
impossible".
Bullshit, Jesse. And you (unintentionally) proved that Oswald's feat
was not impossible when you got off three shots (with some hits) in
only 8.84 and 8.79 seconds. And that even INCLUDES Jesse's
sluggishness with the Carcano bolt-action rifle he was using.
And it doesn't really matter whether Jesse was merely pretending to
have trouble with the gun, or whether he was, in fact, legitimately
having a difficult time working the bolt, the results are still the
same -- Ventura fired three REAL, LIVE bullets with a Mannlicher-
Carcano rifle in just about exactly the same amount of time that Lee
Oswald did on November 22, 1963.
This old "it's impossible" trick reminds me of a similar goof in
Oliver Stone's movie "JFK"</a>, which contains a scene that has Jim
Garrison (Kevin Costner) and one of his assistants making the claim
that Oswald could not have done the shooting in under 6 seconds. But
when actor Jay Sanders actually performed his shooting test with the
camera rolling, what happened? He dry-fired three shots with a Carcano
in 5.5 seconds! Ya gotta love it.
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/oliver-stone-blunder.html
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/five-point-six-seconds-myth.html
Ventura also resurrects the "Three Tramps" myth, pretending that the
tramps were somehow involved in Kennedy's murder in some way, all the
while ignoring the fact that the arrest records for the three tramps
were discovered years ago, with the tramps turning out to be just that
-- tramps.
And then there's the crap about George H.W. Bush possibly being
photographed in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.
And we're also treated to a guest appearance by conspiracy quack Jim
Marrs, who wants Ventura's audience to swallow the notion that Lee
Oswald went to the Texas Theater to meet a "contact" on November 22nd,
and then the rug was pulled out from under "patsy" Oswald in the
theater as some unnamed co-plotter called the cops and had Oswald
picked up.
Naturally, Marrs and Ventura will completely ignore the truth
regarding Oswald's arrest. With the truth being: ordinary civilian
witnesses Johnny Brewer and Julia Postal were the people who were
directly responsible for Oswald being arrested in the Texas Theater,
with Postal being the one who called the police shortly after Oswald
sneaked into the theater without paying.
I think it's time to call "Mythbusters" after watching this Ventura
propaganda piece.
Still More Crap:
Ventura decides to ignore the multiple witnesses who positively
identified Oswald as the killer of Officer J.D. Tippit, with Jesse
wondering why Oswald would have thrown down the shell casings at the
Tippit murder scene. It was just "too pat", "too easy", and "too
perfect", according to crack investigator Ventura, even though
witnesses at the scene saw Oswald, HIMSELF, dumping the shells from
his own gun as he fled the scene.
But it's best to ignore the best evidence if you're a conspiracy
theorist like Jesse Ventura. And, as usual, Ventura does just that. He
ignores all of the best evidence, in favor of rumor, speculation, and
the conspiracy theories of kooks like Jim Marrs and James Fetzer. (God
help Ventura's audience.)
And, of course, the proverbial "back and to the left" stuff is dragged
out of the closet again too, with Ventura totally ignoring the fact
that JFK's head initially moved FORWARD at the moment of the bullet's
impact. Naturally, though, his audience is never told that fact.
In summary, Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" episode on the JFK
assassination is one great-big steaming pile of recycled and rehashed
conspiracy-flavored garbage.
David Von Pein
November 25, 2010
Bud
Yah, Jesse may be able to shoot expert, be he looked like he never
fired a bolt action rifle before in his life. Perhaps had Jesse spent
time dry-firing and getting familiar with the weapon like Oswald did
he would have done better at the start. But you will note that he
consistently improved on his initial time the more he became familiar
with the weapon. This is what CTers neglect to take into account, as
far as I know all the shooters the government used to test fire
Oswald`s rifle were not familiar with the weapon, they were all just
handed it and asked to shoot. If you let all the shooters take the
weapon to a range and practice one day with it you`d like see vast
improvements in their performances.
> He then did get better on his second and third attempts, scoring times
> of 8.84 seconds and 8.79 seconds for three shots (while, as he
> admitted, achieving multiple "hits" on the target below him, including
> a "head shot" too).
My uncle tells the story about how he was hunting with my father,
and they both went around a hill different ways. My uncle heard shots
fired so rapidly he said they sounded as if my father was using a
machine gun. He came around the hill to see my father standing over a
dead deer. My father was using a bolt action Mauser.
> http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/five-point-six-seconds-myth....
>
> Ventura also resurrects the "Three Tramps" myth, pretending that the
> tramps were somehow involved in Kennedy's murder in some way, all the
> while ignoring the fact that the arrest records for the three tramps
> were discovered years ago, with the tramps turning out to be just that
> -- tramps.
I could never figure out what practical use to the success of the
assassination these guys could possibly play.
> And then there's the crap about George H.W. Bush possibly being
> photographed in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.
Yah, everybody that resembles someone in the assassination photos is
that person. Milteer. Hunt. Bush. You could probably do the same thing
with any crowd at a baseball game, find look-a-likes to other people.
> And we're also treated to a guest appearance by conspiracy quack Jim
> Marrs, who wants Ventura's audience to swallow the notion that Lee
> Oswald went to the Texas Theater to meet a "contact" on November 22nd,
> and then the rug was pulled out from under "patsy" Oswald in the
> theater as some unnamed co-plotter called the cops and had Oswald
> picked up.
>
> Naturally, Marrs and Ventura will completely ignore the truth
> regarding Oswald's arrest. With the truth being: ordinary civilian
> witnesses Johnny Brewer and Julia Postal were the people who were
> directly responsible for Oswald being arrested in the Texas Theater,
> with Postal being the one who called the police shortly after Oswald
> sneaked into the theater without paying.
>
> I think it's time to call "Mythbusters" after watching this Ventura
> propaganda piece.
>
> Still More Crap:
>
> Ventura decides to ignore the multiple witnesses who positively
> identified Oswald as the killer of Officer J.D. Tippit, with Jesse
> wondering why Oswald would have thrown down the shell casings at the
> Tippit murder scene. It was just "too pat", "too easy", and "too
> perfect", according to crack investigator Ventura, even though
> witnesses at the scene saw Oswald, HIMSELF, dumping the shells from
> his own gun as he fled the scene.
In true retard conspiracy kook fashion he swings from the position
that there is too much evidence or not enough depending on what he is
focusing on.
> But it's best to ignore the best evidence if you're a conspiracy
> theorist like Jesse Ventura. And, as usual, Ventura does just that. He
> ignores all of the best evidence, in favor of rumor, speculation, and
> the conspiracy theories of kooks like Jim Marrs and James Fetzer. (God
> help Ventura's audience.)
What was that shit about the paperwork the guy in the wheelchair on
the bridge gave him? You notice it was heavily redacted? So, someone
on the "inside" steals documents, but the CIA redacts their own
documents?
> And, of course, the proverbial "back and to the left" stuff is dragged
> out of the closet again too, with Ventura totally ignoring the fact
> that JFK's head initially moved FORWARD at the moment of the bullet's
> impact. Naturally, though, his audience is never told that fact.
>
> In summary, Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" episode on the JFK
> assassination is one great-big steaming pile of recycled and rehashed
> conspiracy-flavored garbage.
These conspiracy kooks are always crying that the government has
been lying to them, does anyone lie as much as these whackjobs?
David Von Pein
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3460.msg65848.html#msg65848
BARRY HOWARTH SAID:
>>> "Shooting fish in a barrel to point out the obvious silly stuff [in Jesse Ventura's November 2010 JFK episode of the TRuTV show "Conspiracy Theory"], Dave. Did you enjoy the interviews with Gary Mack and Vinnie? Nice to know Gary is still on the right side, isn't it?" <<<
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Everybody has always known that Gary Mack was a CTer. For some silly
reason, many people want to lie and say he's an LNer, which he never
was.
As for the interviews, they were horrible due to the miserable
editing, which allows us to hear only about three or four words at a
time, before the overworked editor takes over.
And Bugliosi undoubtedly said several additional things that make
total sense, but these things were left on the TruTV cutting-room
floor. His interview was edited just to give Jesse a platform to try
and make Vince look silly.
I hate shows like Jesse's. The fast cuts and the constant melodramatic
music hamper things from start to finish, IMO. And, of course, it
doesn't help to have kooks running all over the place, spouting one
unprovable theory after another -- like the GW Bush crap and E. Howard
Hunt, and DeMohrenschildt, etc.
I'm surprised that Jesse even admitted that Marina told him she had
taken the backyard photo(s). He could have buried that info, and I'm a
little surprised he didn't. So, that was one feather in Ventura's cap.
But it was the only one. Everything else he said was pure BS.
P.S. -- It's good to know that conspiracy theorist Barry Howarth
thinks the notion of Oswald's shooting feat being "fucking impossible"
and the "back and to the left" crap is "silly stuff". You don't get
too many CTers to admit that those two items are "silly".
BARRY HOWARTH SAID:
>>> "The Bugliosi interview was comedy gold, revealing him to be the tendentious, mendacious prosecutor he actually is, which is why he isn't to be taken seriously. He's not a historian and his work is not a work of history, it is a one-sided argument." <<<
DVP SAID:
Yeah, Bugliosi should have tossed all the evidence against Saint
Oswald out the window (like Ventura and his cronies have done). That
would make the case a lot easier to solve, wouldn't it?
And Bugliosi's book is one-sided because of one immutable fact -- the
evidence in the case is ONE-SIDED -- all leading to the one and only
killer: Lee H. Oswald. Period.
And Vince's TruTV interview was only "comedy gold" because the people
making that program are conspiracy kooks. They chopped it up to make
Vince look like a nut and to make Jesse look like a genius case-
solving God. It was sickening actually. And I'm very surprised Vince
let Jesse's film crew in his house to film it. VB should have known
from the get-go it was a set-up and that virtually everything he said
would be cut out. Surely Vince knew he was being interviewed for a
kook show called "CONSPIRACY THEORY". He should have known better than
to fall into that CT trap.
Gil Jesus
> Oliver Stone's movie "JFK"</a>, which contains a scene that has Jim
> Garrison (Kevin Costner) and one of his assistants making the claim
> that Oswald could not have done the shooting in under 6 seconds. But
> when actor Jay Sanders actually performed his shooting test with the
> camera rolling, what happened? He dry-fired three shots with a Carcano
> in 5.5 seconds! Ya gotta love it.
Especially if shots were "dry-fired" on November 22, 1963.
Dry firing is nothing more than operating the bolt and pulling the
trigger with the rifle empty. It doesn't require reacquiring a moving
target in the scope and timing a "Lead" on the target AFTER EACH SHOT
due to the rifle "kick" moving the scope off target when fired.
Dry firing means nothing, Mr. Kook. And anyone who has fired a rifle
knows that.
NOW GO CHOKE YOUR CHICKEN.
curtjester1
LNT'ers will always have left-handed miracle scopes secured in well
documented bore holes with paperwork, a good shooting position with a
half-open window so the whole body could be in optimum coordinated
positions, turning invisible tree branches, trajectories that require
perfect upward and sideward deflections, some rubbed out remnants
from chicken bones to use as WD-40 to insure all that rust will be
well oiled to let that bolt act like a moving on going mouse trap
detonated reflex for practical time line probabilities, and targets
that will remain instantly still for a moment of firing.
CJ
aeffects
ROTFLMFAO! there ya go Gil... treat'em with what they deserve! extra
crispy!
Walt
Gil, You might as well be talking to a door knob.... Von Pea Brain has
no clue that he's talkin outta his ass.....
You are absolutely right in saying...."Dry firing is nothing more than
operating the bolt and pulling the trigger with the rifle empty. It
doesn't require reacquiring a moving target in the scope and timing a
"Lead" on the target AFTER EACH SHOT due to the rifle "kick" moving
the scope off target when fired."
HOWEVER.... The problem of actually firing the Mannlicher Carcano is
much harder to fire rapidly than most other bolt action rifles. The
reason being that not only does the recoil push the rifle UP and off
target, the action of opening the bolt pulls the muzzle to the right
because the rifle COCKS ON THE OPENING stroke. Therefore the shooter
has to apply muscle and leverage to open the bolt and eject the spent
shell. Most good quality rifles COCK ON CLOSING and that means simply
pushing the bolt forward which doesn't pull the muzzle off target.
Anybody who claims that Oswald could have fired three shots accurately
in under ten seconds simple are lying or ignorant. And furthermore
there were MORE than three shots fired in dealey plaza that day.
David Von Pein
>>> "Dry firing means nothing." <<<
But kook Ventura didn't just DRY-FIRE. He fired three live rounds in
almost the exact same amount of time it took Oswald, disproving his
own stupid myth. And it's obvious Ventura was stretching the time to
the max., too. And yet he STILL got off three shots (with bullets
coming out of his Carcano) in 8.79 seconds.
Oswald's "feat" was no "feat" at all. Live with it, kook. Even a CT
nut TRYING to disprove the myth can't do it. In fact, he proved the
opposite.
Walt
> >>> "Dry firing means nothing." <<<
>
> But kook Ventura didn't just DRY-FIRE. He fired three live rounds in
> almost the exact same amount of time it took Oswald, disproving his
> own stupid myth. And it's obvious Ventura was stretching the time to
> the max., too. And yet he STILL got off three shots (with bullets
> coming out of his Carcano) in 8.79 seconds.
Well hell, I'll bet you I can fire three bullets from one of my
Carcanos in less than8.79 seconds.....do you want to bet?
.Simply firing three rounds in 8.79 seconds proves NOTHING but the
fact that it's possible to fire three cartridges from a given rifle in
8.79 seconds.
While I'm quite sure that it's possible to accomplish this feat with
some Carcanos....It probably would NOT have been possible with the
TSBD rifle (C2766)
However even if a certain Carcano can be fired three times in 8.79
seconds does NOT prove that the three bullets hit an eight inch,
moving, target 50 yards away.
>
> Oswald's "feat" was no "feat" at all. Live with it, kook. Even a CT
> nut TRYING to disprove the myth can't do it. In fact, he proved the
> opposite.
While I didn't see the video....I'll bet you what ever amount you'd
care to wager that you can't find a sharpshooter who can hit an eight
inch moving target with one of my Carcanos with the scope mounted
EXACTLY like the scope was mounted on the TSBD rifle.
I'm quite sure that you're smart enough to reject my offer, but you're
still too damned DUMB to understand that if you reject my offer you
are admitting that it would have been impossible for ANYBODY to have
fired that rifle accurately enough to hit President Kennedy in the
head at a range of 88 yards.
bigdog
Brilliant, Waltards. The ballistic evidence proves that somebody did
what you are claiming is impossible for someone firing a Carcano. You
dumbfucks never cease to amaze me with the level of your stupidity.
Gil Jesus
>
> > >>> "Dry firing means nothing." <<<
>
> > But kook Ventura didn't just DRY-FIRE. He fired three live rounds in
> > almost the exact same amount of time it took Oswald, disproving his
> > own stupid myth. And it's obvious Ventura was stretching the time to
> > the max., too. And yet he STILL got off three shots (with bullets
> > coming out of his Carcano) in 8.79 seconds.
Almost the exact same time as Oswald ?
Now Oswald's time is 8.79 seconds ?
First it was 5.6 seconds.
Then when Posner's book came out, it was 8 seconds.
When "Beyond Conspiracy" came out, it was 8.5 seconds.
Now it's 8.79 seconds.
Next, you'll have Oswald firing while the limo is still on Main St.
Besides, Ventura fired at STATIONARY TARGETS, not moving ones.
And it STILL took him almost 9 seconds.
That's why he said, "Bullsh*t" after he fired his last round.
Walt
The ballistics evidence proves NOTHING ya dumb bastard!.... The
bullets that Hoover's FBI said matched the TSBD rifle were NOT
recovered from any victim. In FACT the bullet was found far removed
from any victim. SO even if the FBI report was accurate and the
bullet was in fact fired from the TSBD rifle NOBODY knows WHEN it was
fired from that barrel. It Obviously was NOT fired from the TSBD at
the time JFK was murdered because the TSBD rifle was buried beneath
boxes of books at the time of the shooting.
You'll have to pull yer head outta yer ass to see the truth.
- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
David Von Pein
Retard Gil somehow thinks 8.8 seconds is a million miles away from
Oswald's 8.4. A kook mind at work.