Secret Service in Dealey Plaza
Maggsy
Harkness and Mr Weitzman all said they encountered ss agents
immediately after the assassination. Allegedly Lem Johns was briefly
in Dealey Plaza, but this cant account for the testimony of these
witnesses can it.
tomnln
"Maggsy" <davidma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1628a477-87c9-46ba...@f19g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
The Secret Service "Imposters" were also seen by.....
DPD officer J M Smith. (behind fence)
DPD officer Harkness (back door of TSBD)
Dallas Secret Service "Chief" Forrest Sorrels (back door of TSBD)
Ben Holmes
Maggsy says...
>
>Who were the secret service agents in Dealey Plaza?
Jefferson J. Catskill, Steve Wallaby, and Ryan Lathrop.
Any more stupid questions?
>Jean Hill,Mr
>Harkness and Mr Weitzman all said they encountered ss agents
>immediately after the assassination. Allegedly Lem Johns was briefly
>in Dealey Plaza, but this cant account for the testimony of these
>witnesses can it.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
robc...@netscape.com
A BETTER question would have been - Who made the phony SS credentials
for the phony SS agents?
We don't know for sure, but suffice it say the CIA had that capability
(making fake credentials) in 1963.
Another good question would have been - why did the conspirators NOT
care that there were NO real SS agents assigned anywhere on the ground
and their "ruse" would be exposed quite quickly?
Perhaps you will start asking real important questions soon.
David Von Pein
>>> "Who made the phony SS credentials for the phony SS agents?" <<<
Here's one I'll bet you can't answer --- Did Lee Harvey Oswald see a
"Secret Service man" outside the TSBD at 12:33 PM on 11/22/63 and
direct him to a phone? Oswald said he did.
But, as we all know, Oswald really bumped into either Pierce Allman or
Bob MacNeil (both newsmen who were wearing press badges), and LHO
mistook the man for a SS agent because of the "badge" (which is a
badge that Oswald, quite obviously, did not spend a great deal of time
examining very closely, seeing as how LHO was in kind of a hurry after
having just murdered the President of the United States three minutes
earlier).
So, an additional question could be asked here -- If Lee Harvey Oswald
could easily misidentify a newsman as a Secret Service agent in
Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his comments about this
matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why is it out of the
realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza to have made the
very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?
Food for "Fake SS Agents" thought anyway.
tomnln
<robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:e82b90b6-126e-4de8...@y9g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/fake_secret_service_agents.htm
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3545b656-5109-49e7...@w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>>>> "Who made the phony SS credentials for the phony SS agents?" <<<
>
>
> "Secret Service man" outside the TSBD at 12:33 PM on 11/22/63 and
> direct him to a phone? Oswald said he did.
>
> But, as we all know, Oswald really bumped into either Pierce Allman or
> Bob MacNeil (both newsmen who were wearing press badges), and LHO
> mistook the man for a SS agent because of the "badge" (which is a
> badge that Oswald, quite obviously, did not spend a great deal of time
> examining very closely, seeing as how LHO was in kind of a hurry after
> having just murdered the President of the United States three minutes
> earlier).
>
> So, an additional question could be asked here -- If Lee Harvey Oswald
> Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his comments about this
> matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why is it out of the
> realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza to have made the
> very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?
>
> Food for "Fake SS Agents" thought anyway.
Oswald did NOT know that the Secret Service were Identified by Lapel Pins.
The shape/color of those Lapel Pins Changed every day.
David V P did NOT know it EITHER.
Maybe /David V P killed JFK?
I hope you believe in GOD David.
Because GOD "Saved your Ass BIG Time" when you RAN from that radio debate.
I keep Baiting you because every time you post here, you PROVE you know
Nothing of evidence/testimony.
Here Kid, Lemmee LEARN YA>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/fake_secret_service_agents.htm
tomnln
floor museum.
Don't you know ANYTHING???
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3545b656-5109-49e7...@w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>>>> "Who made the phony SS credentials for the phony SS agents?" <<<
>
>
robc...@netscape.com
> >>> "Who made the phony SS credentials for the phony SS agents?" <<<
>
> Here's one I'll bet you can't answer --- Did Lee Harvey Oswald see a
> "Secret Service man" outside the TSBD at 12:33 PM on 11/22/63 and
> direct him to a phone? Oswald said he did.
This was proven to be wrong many years ago, he ran into a newsman.
Don't try and make a comparison because the newsman NEVER showed SS
credentials to LHO, but those on the GK DID flash SS credentials to
various witnesses.
> But, as we all know, Oswald really bumped into either Pierce Allman or
> Bob MacNeil (both newsmen who were wearing press badges), and LHO
> mistook the man for a SS agent because of the "badge" (which is a
> badge that Oswald, quite obviously, did not spend a great deal of time
> examining very closely, seeing as how LHO was in kind of a hurry after
> having just murdered the President of the United States three minutes
> earlier).
Did the newsman FLASH SS CREDENTIALS???
> So, an additional question could be asked here -- If Lee Harvey Oswald
> could easily misidentify a newsman as a Secret Service agent in
> Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his comments about this
> matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why is it out of the
> realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza to have made the
> very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?
YOU are distorting and lying as usual as you are LEAVING OUT pertinent
aspects of the evidence. NO one near the TSBD flashed SS credentials
at the time LHO left the building that I am aware of.
> Food for "Fake SS Agents" thought anyway.
IF we "ate" your "food" we would starve to death!
robc...@netscape.com
> "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:3545b656-5109-49e7...@w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>> "Who made the phony SS credentials for the phony SS agents?" <<<
>
> > Here's one I'll bet you can't answer --- Did Lee Harvey Oswald see a
> > "Secret Service man" outside the TSBD at 12:33 PM on 11/22/63 and
> > direct him to a phone? Oswald said he did.
>
> > But, as we all know, Oswald really bumped into either Pierce Allman or
> > Bob MacNeil (both newsmen who were wearing press badges), and LHO
> > mistook the man for a SS agent because of the "badge" (which is a
> > badge that Oswald, quite obviously, did not spend a great deal of time
> > examining very closely, seeing as how LHO was in kind of a hurry after
> > having just murdered the President of the United States three minutes
> > earlier).
>
> > So, an additional question could be asked here -- If Lee Harvey Oswald
> > could easily misidentify a newsman for a Secret Service agent in
> > Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his comments about this
> > matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why is it out of the
> > realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza to have made the
> > very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?
>
> > Food for "Fake SS Agents" thought anyway.
>
> Oswald did NOT know that the Secret Service were Identified by Lapel Pins.
>
> The shape/color of those Lapel Pins Changed every day.
>
> David V P did NOT know it EITHER.
>
> Maybe /David V P killed JFK?
LOL!!! He seems darn interested in BLAMING LHO, that much we know for
sure! Is he covering his own tracks? How many hitmen have a weak
bladder?
> I hope you believe in GOD David.
>
> Because GOD "Saved your Ass BIG Time" when you RAN from that radio debate.
>
> I keep Baiting you because every time you post here, you PROVE you know
> Nothing of evidence/testimony.
>
> Here Kid, Lemmee LEARN YA>>>http://whokilledjfk.net/fake_secret_service_agents.htm- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
tomnln
<robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:084fae3a-7245-4c1f...@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David doesn't know the first thing about how to identify Secret Service
Agents.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/fake_secret_service_agents.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Von Pein
>>> "This was proven to be wrong many years ago, he [Oswald] ran into a newsman." <<<
Of course he did. That was kinda THE WHOLE POINT, Mr. Rob-Kook.
Duh!
I.E., Oswald definitely did run into a newsman, but Oswald THOUGHT he
had run into a Secret Service man.
It doesn't surprise me that that post of mine re. Oswald sailed clean
over Robcap's conspiracy-filled cranium. I wouldn't expect anything
else from a retard who made the following remark to this aggregation
in October 2007:
"LHO shot no one that day." -- Rob C.
David Von Pein
>>> "I keep Baiting you because every time you post here, you PROVE you know Nothing of evidence/testimony." <<<
Just for the record, folks/(lurker), the above sentence was written
by a man who thinks that John Connally was shot in the chest from the
FRONT, with that bullet then exiting out of Connally's back.
And Tom The Mega-Retard believes that the above fantasy version of
events is true despite the fact that Governor Connally HIMSELF always
said that he was hit IN THE BACK with the bullet that struck him. JBC
never once said he was struck IN THE CHEST "with a balled-up fist".
Not to mention Dr. Shaw's 11/22/63 press conference, given just hours
after JBC was shot, wherein Shaw tells the world that Connally was hit
by one bullet that entered the Governor IN THE UPPER BACK.
So, what was it you were saying about somebody knowing "nothing" about
the evidence and testimony in this case, Mr. Rossley?
David Von Pein
>>> "David doesn't know the first thing about how to identify Secret Service Agents." <<<
So what? Who cares if I do or don't? That's irrelevant to the point I
was making, which was this point (again): Lee H. Oswald incorrectly
thought he bumped into a SS man, so other people might very well have
made the same kind of mistake in Dealey Plaza on Nov. 22nd.
But, just like Robcap, I see that Rossley missed the entire point of
my post too. (Birds of a kooky feather, I guess.)
robc...@netscape.com
> >>> "This was proven to be wrong many years ago, he [Oswald] ran into a newsman." <<<
>
> Of course he did. That was kinda THE WHOLE POINT, Mr. Rob-Kook.
NO it wasn't my lying internet pen-pal! YOU were trying to lie by
acting like all those other witnesses were confused like LHO was, but
the DIFFERENCE is LHO was NOT shown fake SS credentials, he just
assumed based on the guy's haircut.
YOU are NOT going to devalue all the other witnesses with this lame
comment.
> Duh!
Liar, aren't you?
> I.E., Oswald definitely did run into a newsman, but Oswald THOUGHT he
> had run into a Secret Service man.
Yes, but he ASSUMED this, he was NOT shown any credentials to make
this conclusion, UNLIKE the other witnesses Tom mentioned.
> It doesn't surprise me that that post of mine re. Oswald sailed clean
> over Robcap's conspiracy-filled cranium. I wouldn't expect anything
> else from a retard who made the following remark to this aggregation
> in October 2007:
NOTHING sailed over my head, I merely pointed out how you are trying
to lie and skew the real evidence.
> "LHO shot no one that day." -- Rob C.
He sure didn't, and it must eat your weak bladder up that YOU CAN'T
prove he did, huh?
tomnln
>
>
>>>> "I keep Baiting you because every time you post here, you PROVE you
>>>> know Nothing of evidence/testimony." <<<
>
> by a man who thinks that John Connally was shot in the chest from the
> FRONT, with that bullet then exiting out of Connally's back.
>
> of events is true despite the fact that Governor Connally HIMSELF
> always said that he was hit IN THE BACK with the bullet that struck
> him. JBC never once said he was struck IN THE CHEST "with a balled-up
> fist".
>
> Not to mention Dr. Shaw's 11/22/63 press conference, given just hours
> after JBC was shot, wherein Shaw tells the world that Connally was hit
> by one bullet that entered the Governor IN THE UPPER BACK.
>
>
> So, what was it you were saying about somebody knowing "nothing" about
> the evidence and testimony in this case, Mr. Rossley?
David doesn't know that JBC's own Dr made that Statement.
David doesn't know that that statement is in the 26 volumes.
HAHAHAHAHA
tomnln
David is too Stupid to know that that statement came from JBC's own Dr.
David doesn't even know WHERE in the 26 volumes that statement can be found.
David doesn't even know his OWN case.
No Wonder he RAN from the radio debate ! ! !
tomnln
Hey Asshole;
LHO was NOT shown photos of the Secret Service Lapel Pins.
The Dallas Police WERE shown photos of those Secret Service Lapel Pins.
Keep posting David.
I Really enjoy Burying you with Official itations.
HAHAHAHA
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6e0d606aea8381f5
>>> "The DIFFERENCE is LHO was NOT shown fake SS credentials, he just assumed based on the guy's haircut." <<<
LOL time.
Rob thinks that the man's "haircut" was the ONLY thing that made Lee
Oswald think that the man he encountered outside the Book Depository
was a Secret Service agent.
I guess ALL men with crew-cuts MUST be affiliated with the Secret
Service, huh Rob?
LOL (reprise). That's rich, Rob (even for you).
In point of fact, the only evidence we have on this matter is a report
written by Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley (dated November 29,
1963), wherein Kelley reports on the things he observed when he was
present during some of Oswald's interrogations at the DPD....including
Oswald's remarks to Kelley on 11/24/63 (just an hour or so before LHO
was shot and killed):
"He [LHO] asked me [Thomas J. Kelley] whether I was an FBI
Agent, and I said that I was not, that I was a member of the Secret
Service. He said when he was standing in front of the Textbook
Building and about to leave it, a young crew-cut man rushed up to him
and said he was from the Secret Service, showed a book of
identification, and asked him where the phone was. Oswald said he
pointed toward the pay phone in the building and that he saw the man
actually go to the phone before he left." -- WR; Pg. 629
WARREN REPORT PAGE 629:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0327a.htm
So, we can see via Kelley's SS report that Oswald actually said the
man he encountered TOLD HIM he was from the "Secret Service" AND
showed Oswald a "book of identification".
Therefore, kooks like Rob should probably be propping up Oswald
HIMSELF as another person in Dealey Plaza who supposedly was SHOWN
official Secret Service identification on 11/22/63.
Of course, we can have all the confidence in the world that Oswald did
not hear the words "Secret Service" come out of the mouth of the man
he encountered near the Book Depository's front entrance at
approximately 12:33 PM on November 22, 1963.
And we can also be just as confident of the fact that Oswald was not
shown any "book of identification" by the man LHO encountered that
day.
And that's because we can be fairly confident that Oswald saw one of
two newsmen (possibly both) -- Pierce Allman of WFAA-TV or Robert
MacNeil of NBC. And neither of those men is a "Secret Service" man,
nor did either man show anyone any "Secret Service" identification on
11/22/63.
So, we're again back to my main point regarding this matter, which was
(and still is):
"If Lee Harvey Oswald could easily misidentify a newsman as a
Secret Service agent in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his
comments about this matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why
is it out of the realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza
to have made the very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?"
-- DVP; 04/09/09
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/eb430e6c34733cce
Or, to use the words of Vincent Bugliosi:
"From all the evidence it clearly appears that the Secret
Service sightings on the grassy knoll and behind the Book Depository
Building after the shooting are entitled to about the same weight as
Oswald's statement in Captain Fritz's office about being confronted by
a Secret Service agent in front of the Book Depository Building" --
Page 871 of "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John
F. Kennedy" (c.2007)
>>> "He [Oswald] ASSUMED this, he was NOT shown any credentials to make this conclusion, UNLIKE the other witnesses." <<<
Better learn the facts, Rob. As I just mentioned above, the only
official place that I know of where this topic comes up is on Page 629
of the Warren Report, which I linked earlier. And that indicates that
Oswald told Thomas Kelley that the words "Secret Service" came out of
the mouth of the man whom Oswald encountered in front of the
Depository.
But, as mentioned, it's fairly certain that those words were not
spoken by the man Oswald saw that day....because the man Oswald saw
was almost certainly either Allman or MacNeil (and I kind of doubt
either man would have identified himself to Oswald, or to anyone, as
being a member of the Secret Service).
But anyway you want to slice it, it's fairly obvious that Lee Harvey
Oswald HIMSELF was confused about the real identity of the man he saw
outside the building on November 22nd. Per Thomas Kelley's 11/29/63
report, it's clear that Oswald bumped into a man whom LHO erroneously
thought was some kind of law-enforcement official.
Therefore, if that kind of mix-up could happen to Oswald, then why
couldn't it also happen to other people in Dealey Plaza that day as
well?
ADDENDUM:
Author Vincent Bugliosi covers this topic very nicely in his book
"Reclaiming History" (in a 7-page chapter devoted specifically to this
very subject, entitled "SECRET SERVICE AGENTS ON THE GRASSY KNOLL";
Pages 865-871).
Bugliosi thoroughly explains the alleged "Secret Service" sightings by
the various witnesses. And Vince logically concludes that Police
Officer Joe Smith very likely ran into NOT a Secret Service agent on
the Grassy Knoll, but instead Smith encountered James W. Powell, who
was a member of the 112th Military Intelligence Group (which is an
organization that aided and augmented the Secret Service during
President Kennedy's visit to Dallas on 11/22/63).
Powell was off duty that day, but he was in Dealey Plaza when the
assassination occurred, and he ran behind the picket fence atop the
Grassy Knoll after the shooting.
Additionally, on April 12, 1996, Powell told the ARRB that he was
pretty sure that he had shown his identification to some people behind
the picket fence that day. He said he had "flashed my credentials" (a
1996 quote from Powell) to various police officers when he was behind
the fence. And one of those police officers was very likely Joe
Marshall Smith.
>>> "LHO shot no one that day...and it must eat your weak bladder up that YOU CAN'T prove he did, huh?" <<<
I don't need to "prove" Oswald's guilt, Rob. The Dallas Police
Department and the Warren Commission, way back in 1963 and 1964,
proved that your hero named Lee Harvey was a double-murderer.
The fact that you continually deny Oswald's obvious (double) guilt is
of no consequence (either large or small).
But I would think you'd feel just a LITTLE twinge of guilt yourself
when you pitifully attempt to defend a double killer the way you like
to do.
I guess Rob must be related to the late Johnnie Cochran. Johnnie
didn't seem to feel any remorse about defending a double killer
either.
David Von Pein
>>> "WHY didn't [Thomas] Kelly [sic] correct that mistake by Oswald "IF" Oswald actually said it????" <<<
LOL.
What difference does it make whether Inspector Kelley "corrected"
anything Oswald said? That's completely irrelevant.
The bottom line is this -- Oswald evidently thought he ran into a
member of the Secret Service as LHO left the TSBD. But the best
evidence is that Oswald encountered either Pierce Allman or Bob
MacNeil.*
* Or would conspiracists now like to add a THIRD potential individual
(i.e., a "fake Secret Service" agent) into this mix of people who
potentially asked Oswald "Where's a phone?"....which I guess isn't
totally impossible, since a lot of people probably were scurrying
around trying to find telephones in the minutes right after the
assassination.
But I fail to see WHERE exactly such an argument would take any
conspiracy theorist who might propose it. Or maybe a CTer can pretend
that such a phone-seeking "fake" Secret Service agent was in a hurry
to get to a phone so that he could call Carlos Marcello and report:
"WE KILLED HIM, CARLOS! GOOD JOB!"
So, is there any additional chaff you'd like to regurgitate, Mr.
Rossley? You seem to possess an endless amount of it.
tomnln
Did S S CAgents wear Lapel Pins on 11/22/63"
Did the S S show photos of those Lapel Pins to the DPD working the motorcade
on 11/22/63?
HUH David Did They David HUH????
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:de730fcc-953d-4411...@g20g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6e0d606aea8381f5
>
>
>
>>>> "The DIFFERENCE is LHO was NOT shown fake SS credentials, he just
>>>> assumed based on the guy's haircut." <<<
>
> "If Lee Harvey Oswald could easily misidentify a newsman as a
> Secret Service agent in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his
> comments about this matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why
> is it out of the realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza
> to have made the very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?"
>>>> "LHO shot no one that day...and it must eat your weak bladder up that
>>>> YOU CAN'T prove he did, huh?" <<<
>
>
>
tomnln
>
>
>>>> "David doesn't know that JBC's own Dr. made that Statement." <<<
>
>
> As I said before, you (Rossley) can't even use your common sense (if
> you've got any left after wading through conspiracy myth after
> conspiracy myth for over 40 years now) to figure out the really,
> really easy-to-figure-out stuff regarding the evidence surrounding the
> events of November 22nd, 1963.
>
> If you ever came up against something really difficult, you'd probably
> implode.
>
>
>>>> "David doesn't know that that statement is in the 26 volumes." <<<
>
P-R-O-G-R-E-S-S
At least you stopped Denying all of the evidence/testimony.
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5a5da6a1-48bd-4e8f...@q2g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Von Pain(in the ass) does Not believe that any accused should have any
Legal Representation.
SEIG HEIL David,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
robc...@netscape.com
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6e0d606aea8381f5
>
> >>> "The DIFFERENCE is LHO was NOT shown fake SS credentials, he just assumed based on the guy's haircut." <<<
>
> LOL time.
Dave is on slippery ice here as he has to be careful to avoid claiming
LHO was shown SS credentials, phony or otherwise since there were NO
SS agents in front of the TSBD at the time LHO left.
> Rob thinks that the man's "haircut" was the ONLY thing that made Lee
> Oswald think that the man he encountered outside the Book Depository
> was a Secret Service agent.
That is what he said, this gave him the impression he was SS. What
reason does Dave think made LHO believe this?
(Note: This is the SAME guy who offered up the "pattern of the shell
casings" as the reason Sgt. Hill confused them to be automatics
instead of revolver casings by the way.)
> I guess ALL men with crew-cuts MUST be affiliated with the Secret
> Service, huh Rob?
NOT in my mind, but we are NOT talking about me, remember?? YOU
brought up LHO and I guess in 1963 he thought this meant they were
SS. Why did he think this then Dave?
> LOL (reprise). That's rich, Rob (even for you).
What is rich?? I'm just telling you what he said, and you are trying
to make it seem like I am saying it. That is dishonest Dave, and NO
it is NOT a surprise when dealing with you Dave.
> In point of fact, the only evidence we have on this matter is a report
> written by Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley (dated November 29,
> 1963), wherein Kelley reports on the things he observed when he was
> present during some of Oswald's interrogations at the DPD....including
> Oswald's remarks to Kelley on 11/24/63 (just an hour or so before LHO
> was shot and killed):
>
> "He [LHO] asked me [Thomas J. Kelley] whether I was an FBI
> Agent, and I said that I was not, that I was a member of the Secret
> Service. He said when he was standing in front of the Textbook
> Building and about to leave it, a young crew-cut man rushed up to him
> and said he was from the Secret Service, showed a book of
> identification, and asked him where the phone was. Oswald said he
> pointed toward the pay phone in the building and that he saw the man
> actually go to the phone before he left." -- WR; Pg. 629
Yes, but this statement opens up a world of hurt for you doesn't it??
There were NO SS men in front of the TSBD at the time of the shooting
or in the minutes after the shooting, so who was this man showing him
SS credentials Dave?? (I baited him into doing my work for me,
thanks!)
He was flashing phony SS credentials in front of the SS when there
were NO real SS agents there at that time?
> WARREN REPORT PAGE 629:http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0327a.htm
>
> So, we can see via Kelley's SS report that Oswald actually said the
> man he encountered TOLD HIM he was from the "Secret Service" AND
> showed Oswald a "book of identification".
Yes, NOW explain who this man was and why was he carrying phony SS
credentials.
> Therefore, kooks like Rob should probably be propping up Oswald
> HIMSELF as another person in Dealey Plaza who supposedly was SHOWN
> official Secret Service identification on 11/22/63.
Isn't that what you just posted??? YOU posted his comments and it
includes him saying he was shown SS ID, yet we know there were NO real
SS men in DP at that time, so who was this imposter Dave?
Don't you love it when they hang themselves?
> Of course, we can have all the confidence in the world that Oswald did
> not hear the words "Secret Service" come out of the mouth of the man
> he encountered near the Book Depository's front entrance at
> approximately 12:33 PM on November 22, 1963.
How can we? YOU have to prove he lied about this to say he lied, can
you? I don't see how since it is his word against yours and you
weren't there.
> And we can also be just as confident of the fact that Oswald was not
> shown any "book of identification" by the man LHO encountered that
> day.
How can we?? Please show us you evidence for this statement.
> And that's because we can be fairly confident that Oswald saw one of
> two newsmen (possibly both) -- Pierce Allman of WFAA-TV or Robert
> MacNeil of NBC. And neither of those men is a "Secret Service" man,
> nor did either man show anyone any "Secret Service" identification on
> 11/22/63.
This is the offiical explanation, but how do we know this is the
truth? We don't, and there is as much proof for this conclusion as
there is for the comment by LHO, yet you are willing to grab onto one,
and call the other a lie. This is called "selective" thinking, and
this is done by people who want a certain outcome to be true, even
when there is NO proof for it to be so.
> So, we're again back to my main point regarding this matter, which was
> (and still is):
>
> "If Lee Harvey Oswald could easily misidentify a newsman as a
> Secret Service agent in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 (and he did, per his
> comments about this matter to the police after his arrest) -- then why
> is it out of the realm of possibility for other witnesses in the Plaza
> to have made the very same kind of mistake that Oswald made that day?"
> -- DVP; 04/09/09
Don't you love how Dave SKIPS over the comment about LHO being shown
SS credentials when THERE WERE NO SS AGENTS IN DP DURING AND
IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ASSASSINATION? Who was this man and where did
he get SS credentials?
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/eb430e6c34733cce
>
> Or, to use the words of Vincent Bugliosi:
>
> "From all the evidence it clearly appears that the Secret
> Service sightings on the grassy knoll and behind the Book Depository
> Building after the shooting are entitled to about the same weight as
> Oswald's statement in Captain Fritz's office about being confronted by
> a Secret Service agent in front of the Book Depository Building" --
> Page 871 of "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John
> F. Kennedy" (c.2007)
I'm sure Bugman did NOT use this standard in his court cases, but in
the JFK case many have lied and changed their whole outlook for money
and fame.
> >>> "He [Oswald] ASSUMED this, he was NOT shown any credentials to make this conclusion, UNLIKE the other witnesses." <<<
>
> Better learn the facts, Rob. As I just mentioned above, the only
> official place that I know of where this topic comes up is on Page 629
> of the Warren Report, which I linked earlier. And that indicates that
> Oswald told Thomas Kelley that the words "Secret Service" came out of
> the mouth of the man whom Oswald encountered in front of the
> Depository.
I know the facts, and thanks to you we have the passage and NOW you
have to EXPLAIN who this man was as he was NOT a real SS agent yet he
had SS credentials!
> But, as mentioned, it's fairly certain that those words were not
> spoken by the man Oswald saw that day....because the man Oswald saw
> was almost certainly either Allman or MacNeil (and I kind of doubt
> either man would have identified himself to Oswald, or to anyone, as
> being a member of the Secret Service).
Yet you have nothing by faith for this assertion as there is NO proof
to show otherwise, thus we have to go with the official record (as you
say in other areas) and that shows a man showing SS credentials when
he did NOT work for the SS.
> But anyway you want to slice it, it's fairly obvious that Lee Harvey
> Oswald HIMSELF was confused about the real identity of the man he saw
> outside the building on November 22nd. Per Thomas Kelley's 11/29/63
> report, it's clear that Oswald bumped into a man whom LHO erroneously
> thought was some kind of law-enforcement official.
Really? He said he was a SS agent based on the credentials you just
posted. NOW, can you explain who this man was?
> Therefore, if that kind of mix-up could happen to Oswald, then why
> couldn't it also happen to other people in Dealey Plaza that day as
> well?
YOU have NOT proven there was a mix-up with LHO, have you? NO, you are
just SAYING THERE WAS A MIX-UP, there is a big difference between the
two. NOW, explain this man for us who seemed to have SS credentials.
> ADDENDUM:
>
> Author Vincent Bugliosi covers this topic very nicely in his book
> "Reclaiming History" (in a 7-page chapter devoted specifically to this
> very subject, entitled "SECRET SERVICE AGENTS ON THE GRASSY KNOLL";
> Pages 865-871).
>
> Bugliosi thoroughly explains the alleged "Secret Service" sightings by
> the various witnesses. And Vince logically concludes that Police
> Officer Joe Smith very likely ran into NOT a Secret Service agent on
> the Grassy Knoll, but instead Smith encountered James W. Powell, who
> was a member of the 112th Military Intelligence Group (which is an
> organization that aided and augmented the Secret Service during
> President Kennedy's visit to Dallas on 11/22/63).
But how does this explain all the SS credentials being flashed?? Are
you saying military intelligence had the phony SS credentials? Could
be.
> Powell was off duty that day, but he was in Dealey Plaza when the
> assassination occurred, and he ran behind the picket fence atop the
> Grassy Knoll after the shooting.
But how did Powell get SS credentials when he was NOT in the SS?
Please explain this for us.
> Additionally, on April 12, 1996, Powell told the ARRB that he was
> pretty sure that he had shown his identification to some people behind
> the picket fence that day. He said he had "flashed my credentials" (a
> 1996 quote from Powell) to various police officers when he was behind
> the fence. And one of those police officers was very likely Joe
> Marshall Smith.
Again, the witnesses said it was "SS credentials" so where did Powell
get this when he was NOT in the SS???
> >>> "LHO shot no one that day...and it must eat your weak bladder up that YOU CAN'T prove he did, huh?" <<<
>
> I don't need to "prove" Oswald's guilt, Rob. The Dallas Police
> Department and the Warren Commission, way back in 1963 and 1964,
> proved that your hero named Lee Harvey was a double-murderer.
LOL!! Dave is delusional as the WC, the DPD and the FBI proved nothing
beyond it was a conspiracy, that is why we are still discussing this
45 years later!
> The fact that you continually deny Oswald's obvious (double) guilt is
> of no consequence (either large or small).
I am a stickler for proof and evidence, and you have NONE that links
LHO to the crimes you claim he committed.
> But I would think you'd feel just a LITTLE twinge of guilt yourself
> when you pitifully attempt to defend a double killer the way you like
> to do.
Dave again forgets the statement "Innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", but
in the Fourth Reich he lives in they deny these kinds of rights to
inviduals I guess.
> I guess Rob must be related to the late Johnnie Cochran. Johnnie
> didn't seem to feel any remorse about defending a double killer
> either.
It is his job, and thankfully there are those who work for the defense
as there are quite a few folks who were innocent and framed, and these
lawyers got them off. Of course some guilty folks get away, but there
is a higher law to deal with them. And as it was said at the
beginning of our country, it is better 100 guilty get off than for one
innocent person (or something close to that) to be convicted. Dave
likes to convict innocent people.
Dave subscribes to Heinrich Himmler's philosphy I guess when he said
he did NOT care if 10,000 Russian women collasped and/or died as long
as his tank ditch was successfully done. Sieg Heil!
tomnln
Do you DENY that there were people "Impersonating" Secret Service Agents in
Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63?
>
tomnln
>
>
> What did Robert Shaw say about JBC's wounds on live TV on 11/22/63,
> Tom?
>
> Did Shaw say that Connally's chest wound was a wound of ENTRY?
>
> Answer: No, of course not. Nor did Shaw EVER claim in his WC testimony
> that Connally's chest wound was a wound of entry.
>
> Rossley, as always, is making shit up.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
(Right on top of the page David)
HAHAHAHAHAHA
David should NEVER open his mouth without a "Life Guard" Very Close by! ! !
!
David Von Pein
>>> "Don't you love how Dave SKIPS over the comment about LHO being shown SS credentials when THERE WERE NO SS AGENTS IN DP DURING AND IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ASSASSINATION? Who was this man and where did he get SS credentials?" <<<
It was either Allman or MacNeil (maybe both, since they both did
EXACTLY the same thing at about the same time -- i.e., they each asked
a white guy where the phone was and they were each directed to the
front of the TSBD).
And since there would be absolutely NO LOGICAL REASON WHATSOEVER for
ANYONE (a SS agent or any civilian) to have flashed any ID to Oswald
(or to TELL HIM they were "Secret Service") just in order to get
simple directions to a telephone....the reasonable inference then
becomes this one: Thomas J. Kelley placed in his report words that
weren't 100% accurate about what Oswald said EXACTLY.
If you want to say I'm "cherry-picking" -- okay. Go ahead. I guess I
am in this instance, because I'm choosing to believe the part about
"Secret Service", but I'm disbelieving Kelley's report regarding
Oswald actually being shown a "book of identification" AND I'm most
certainly disbelieving the part where Kelley says that Oswald heard
the words "Secret Service" come out of the mouth of the man who we
know (via the best and most-reasonable accounts of what happened) was
either Pierce Allman of WFAA-TV or Robert (Robin) MacNeil of the
National Broadcasting Company.
And the part about the man actually SAYING "I'm Secret Service" is
just silly, given the circumstances....mainly because, as I said,
there's no reason for the man to want to even take the time to say
that to Oswald and also to dig out his ID. It's just...well...silly
(IMO).
So, hang me from the nearest tree in your backyard if you want. But
that's my opinion nonetheless.
>>> "But how did Powell get SS credentials when he was NOT in the SS? Please explain this for us." <<<
He didn't have "SS" credentials, you idiot. And he never showed
anybody any Secret Service credentials. And nobody ever EXAMINED his
credentials closely to confirm WHAT agency Powell was with. That's
quite obvious...and, just as important, it's totally logical.
Any reason we can't use CS&L to help "solve" this crime, Rob?
robc...@netscape.com
> >>> "Don't you love how Dave SKIPS over the comment about LHO being shown SS credentials when THERE WERE NO SS AGENTS IN DP DURING AND IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ASSASSINATION? Who was this man and where did he get SS credentials?" <<<
>
> It was either Allman or MacNeil (maybe both, since they both did
> EXACTLY the same thing at about the same time -- i.e., they each asked
> a white guy where the phone was and they were each directed to the
> front of the TSBD).
BUT this contridicts the passage you posted yesterday which said LHO
was shown credentials. NOW, I know you call LHO a liar all the time,
but where is your evidence that he lied about this comment again? IF
we can't show he lied, and you can't, then we have to accept the words
he gave us (funny how he accepts these at other times when it benefits
him, huh?) and YOU have to asnwer to this man who was flashing SS
credentials. NOW, who was this man?
> And since there would be absolutely NO LOGICAL REASON WHATSOEVER for
> ANYONE (a SS agent or any civilian) to have flashed any ID to Oswald
> (or to TELL HIM they were "Secret Service") just in order to get
> simple directions to a telephone....the reasonable inference then
> becomes this one: Thomas J. Kelley placed in his report words that
> weren't 100% accurate about what Oswald said EXACTLY.
But we DON'T know that LHO encountered a newsman, and we DON'T know
that the man did NOT flash him SS credentials, do we? OF course NOT.
YOU are just claiming this stuff did not happen with NO evidence
showing this to be true. Thus we are left with the words of LHO, and
since you can NOT disprove them, they are still legitimate, and again,
I ask, who was this man with fake SS credentials?
> If you want to say I'm "cherry-picking" -- okay. Go ahead. I guess I
> am in this instance, because I'm choosing to believe the part about
> "Secret Service", but I'm disbelieving Kelley's report regarding
> Oswald actually being shown a "book of identification" AND I'm most
> certainly disbelieving the part where Kelley says that Oswald heard
> the words "Secret Service" come out of the mouth of the man who we
> know (via the best and most-reasonable accounts of what happened) was
> either Pierce Allman of WFAA-TV or Robert (Robin) MacNeil of the
> National Broadcasting Company.
Why are you disblieving Kelly's part about the "book of
identification" when there is NO evidence showing Kelly to be wrong?
Because it suits you, that is why. This is selective thinking and
only shows your bias towards LHO being guilty.
> And the part about the man actually SAYING "I'm Secret Service" is
> just silly, given the circumstances....mainly because, as I said,
> there's no reason for the man to want to even take the time to say
> that to Oswald and also to dig out his ID. It's just...well...silly
> (IMO).
You are entitled to your opinion, but there is NO evidence showing
this did NOT happen as Kelly reported.
> So, hang me from the nearest tree in your backyard if you want. But
> that's my opinion nonetheless.
That is tempting, but I don't "hang people" for their opinions, except
when they claim it is FACT, and you have NOT done this.
> >>> "But how did Powell get SS credentials when he was NOT in the SS? Please explain this for us." <<<
>
> He didn't have "SS" credentials, you idiot. And he never showed
> anybody any Secret Service credentials. And nobody ever EXAMINED his
> credentials closely to confirm WHAT agency Powell was with. That's
> quite obvious...and, just as important, it's totally logical.
But we have a problem here Dave. YOU said he told the ARRB he flashed
his ID but he was in the military intelligence group and NO witness
said they were flashed this kind of ID. They ONLY said they were
flashed SS ID's, so he had to be flashing a SS ID if he flashed any at
all. So either he is a liar about flashing his ID, or he is lying
about what type of ID he flashed, either way, he is a liar.
YOU can't explain this FACT.
> Any reason we can't use CS&L to help "solve" this crime, Rob?
CS&L is fine IF it matches what the evidence shows, but in your
scenario it doesn't.
Gil Jesus
WERE MILITARY INTEL PEOPLE WHOSE JOB WAS TO
a.) CREATE A DIVERSION and
b.) FACILITATE THE ESCAPE OF THE SHOOTERS:
From the Report of the House Select Committee on Assassinations:
One witness who did not base his Secret Service agent identification
merely upon observing a plainclothesman in the presence of uniformed
police officers was Dallas police officer Joseph M. Smith. Smith, who
had been riding as a motorcycle escort in the motorcade, ran up the
grassy knoll immediately after the shooting occurred. He testified to
the Warren Commission that at that time he encountered a man who
stated that he was a Secret Service agent and offered supporting
credentials. Smith indicated that he did not examine these credentials
closely, and he then proceeded to search the area unsuccessfully for
suspicious individuals.
The committee did obtain evidence that military intelligence personnel
may have identified themselves as Secret Service agents or that they
might have been misidentified as such. Robert E. Jones, a retired
Army lieutenant colonel who in 1963 was commanding officer of the
military intelligence region that encompassed Texas, told the
committee that from 8 to 12 military intelligence personnel in
plainclothes were assigned to Dallas to provide supplemental security
for the President's visit. He indicated that these agents had
identification credentials and, if questioned, would most likely have
stated that they were on detail to the Secret Service.
Findings of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in the
assassination of President JFK----The Committee believes, JFK was
probably killed as a result of a conspiracy.
( Report, pg 184 )
NOW TELL US WHAT KIND OF "SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY" ARE 8-12 PEOPLE GOING
TO PROVIDE ?
IT'S B.S. OF COURSE.