JFK Head Wounds
robcap...@netscape.com
bullet fired from a low-to-medium velocity rifle and that this bullet
fragmented greatly leaving behing two fragments that would wind up in
the limo and also one that would remain in JFK's head. Meanwhile, they
endorsed the death certificate signed by JFK's personal physician,
Adm. Burkley, that stated the cause of death was due to a HIGH-
VELOCITY bullet hitting JFK in the head! They of course would bury
this death certificate and NOT include this very basic document in
their huge 10,000,000 word, 26 volume tomb to the case.
Why?
Because NOTHING they would claim later made any sense and did NOT
match the death certificate's cause of death. NOR did it match the
back wound description.
I will now list some sources for my belief that this shows the whole
official theory is a pile of crap. In 2002 Mike Griffith wrote a
great article about this topic called "FORENSIC SCIENCE AND PRESIDENT
KENNEDY'S HEAD WOUNDS" (complete article here:
http://www.geocities.com/mtgriffith1/forensic.htm) and he has compiled
several experts in different areas for comment on things the WC
claimed about the head wound.
First up is Howard Donahue who is a court-certified firearms expert
AND a ballistics expert. Donahue said he find it "highly unlikely the
6.5 mm fragment seen in the x-rays could have come from the kind of
ammunition allegedly used by Oswald." Griffith explains why he said
this. "Warren Commission supporters speculate that the fragment was
"sheared off" from the bullet as the bullet entered the skull. But
Donahue observed that a bullet fired from the southeast corner window
of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, i.e., from the
sixth-floor sniper's nest that Oswald supposedly used, would have
entered the skull at a downward angle and therefore would have most
likely deposited the fragment above the entrance point, not below it.
He further noted he had never heard of a fully metal-jacketed bullet
having a fragment peel off from it on impact (Bonar Menninger, Mortal
Error, New York: St. Martin's Press, 1992, pp. 68, 160). Donahue
interviewed several forensic pathologists about this subject,
including Dr. Thomas Smith. All of them said they had never heard of
an FMJ bullet behaving in this manner and that they considered such a
scenario highly unlikely (Menninger, Mortal Error, p. 68)."
Others agreed with this finding. "Australian forensic expert
Detective Shaun Roach and forensic pathologist Dr. Halpert Fillinger
have likewise stated they have never heard of a fully jacketed missile
behaving in this manner, and that they consider such a scenario
extremely improbable. Detective Shaun Roach:
. . . due to the inherent strength of the 6.5 mm Carcano jacket, I
also believe that it would not shear off a fragment upon entering the
head, then deposit that fragment on the outer table of the skull,
either above or below the wound. . . .
Unless full metal jacketed bullets strike an intermediate object in
flight, prompting premature expansion and/or fragmentation, the
depositing of fragments outside the entry wound is foreign to my
experience. It is not common sense and would only be proposed by a
person totally out of touch with the mechanisms of bullet penetration
through the human body. (In Harrison Livingstone, Killing the Truth:
Deceit and Deception in the JFK Case, New York: Carroll & Graf
Publishers, 1993, pp. 57-58)
Dr. Fillinger:
You can appreciate the fact that a jacketed projectile is going to
leave very little on the bone margins because it's basically a
hardened jacket, and it's designed so that it will not scrape off when
it goes through a steel barrel. One can appreciate the fact that going
through bone, which is not as hard as steel, may etch or scratch it,
but it's not going to peel off much metal. In contrast to this, a
softer projectile might very well leave metallic residues around the
margins. (In Robert Groden and Livingstone, High Treason, Berkley
Books Edition, New York: Berkley Books, 1990, p. 79)"
Please read the full article for more detail on this subject.
Howard Roffman, for his book "Presumed Guilty" also interviewed Dr.
Fillinger about this topic in regards to the velocity of the bullet.
Keep in mind Dr. Fillinger is a FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST!
Roffman wrote, "The size and extent of the gaping defect, and the
associated fracturing and fragmentation of the skull, are indicative
of a high-velocity bullet's having struck the head to produce this
damage. Dr. Fillinger has expressed to me his strong feeling that the
extensive fragmentation of the skull is the consequence of a high-
velocity round. He stated that the presence of such massive fracturing
means that "there is a tremendous amount of force applied to the skull
to produce all these fractures. . . . This has been pretty well
fragmented, as a matter of fact," he told me, "and again, it speaks
for some sort of high-velocity round."
Roffman continues, "The gaping defect and accompanying extensive
fragmentation of the skull are not consistent with having been
produced by the type of ammunition the Commission alleges was used
which, despite contrary claims, was of "medium" velocity.
The Commission asserts that the fatal shot was fired at a
distance of 270 feet (R585). Although the Report gives the average
striking velocity of the bullets fired from "Oswald's" rifle at other
distances as measured during the wound ballistics tests, it does not
record the velocity for the head shot tests at the proper distance. At
210 feet, the average striking velocity was 1,858 feet per second
(R584). Dr. Fillinger told me that he would consider an impact
velocity of 2,000 f.p.s. "medium."[18] Even Dr. Malcolm Perry of
Parkland Hospital testified that he considered the Mannlicher-Carcano
"a medium velocity weapon" (3H389). FBI ballistics expert Robert
Frazier called the velocity "low" (3H414) although this would appear
more of a comparative evaluation than an absolute statement, since
bullets can be fired as slowly as 800 f.p.s. or as fast as 4,100
f.p.s.
Because there was great damage to the head and extensive bullet
fragmentation in the brain, Dr. Fillinger was doubtful that the
Mannlicher-Carcano could have produced these wounds. "To produce this
kind of effect," he told me, "you have to have a very high-velocity
projectile, and the Carcano will not stand very high bolt pressures."
The massive defect corresponds perfectly to the characteristics that
Humes described in reference to bullets that "have a common
characteristic of fragmenting extensively upon striking," and that
would have "extensively disrupted" the skull at the point of impact
(2H356). Such a bullet would most likely be that which is used for
"varminting." Bullets used in varmint hunting must be fired at very
high velocities ranging upward from 2,700 f.p.s., and are designed so
that they will smash apart immediately on impact. They commonly leave
pinhead-sized fragments scattered throughout the tissues."
It is obviously clear to anyone who is open to the truth that LHO's
alleged M-C was NOT the murder weapon. To argue otherwise is to
lie.
Ben Holmes
robcap...@netscape.com says...
>
>The WC claimed JFK was hit in the head with a FMJ copper-jacketed
>bullet fired from a low-to-medium velocity rifle
What's the definition of a "low-to-medium velocity rifle", Rob?
Citation please.
Then provide a citation for the muzzle velocity of the 6.5mm MC
But I predict that you will refuse to do so.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
bigdog
wrote:
> The WC claimed JFK was hit in the head with a FMJ copper-jacketed
> bullet fired from a low-to-medium velocity rifle and that this bullet
> fragmented greatly leaving behing two fragments that would wind up in
> the limo and also one that would remain in JFK's head. Meanwhile, they
> endorsed the death certificate signed by JFK's personal physician,
> Adm. Burkley, that stated the cause of death was due to a HIGH-
> VELOCITY bullet hitting JFK in the head! They of course would bury
> this death certificate and NOT include this very basic document in
> their huge 10,000,000 word, 26 volume tomb to the case.
>
> Why?
>
start over. I don't suppose it ever occured to you that at the time
Burkley wrote the death certificate, he did not know the the velocity
of the bullet in question and just assumed it was a high velocity
bullet based on the degree of damage to JFK's head. Of course it
didn't. You just throw stupid shit like this out without ever
bothering to think things through. It's scary to think that you and
Gillie are not the same person and there are two people in this world
who are that fucking stupid.
David Von Pein
MELVIN EISENBERG - Have you calculated the muzzle energy of this 6.5
millimeter ammunition in this weapon?
ROBERT A. FRAZIER OF THE FBI - It was furnished by letter to the
Commission. Yes, sir--the muzzle energy was calculated on the basis of
the average velocity of 2,165 feet per second as 1,676 foot-
pounds. ....
Mr. EISENBERG - How does the recoil of this weapon compare with the
recoil of the average military rifle?
Mr. FRAZIER - Considerably less. The recoil is nominal with this
weapon, because it has a very low velocity and pressure, and just an
average-size bullet weight.
Mr. EISENBERG - Would that tend to improve the shooter's marksmanship?
Mr. FRAZIER - Under rapid-fire conditions, yes.
Mr. EISENBERG - Would that make it a better choice than a more
powerfully recoiling weapon for the type of crime which was committed?
Mr. FRAZIER - For shooting rapidly, this would be a much better
choice, because the recoil does not throw the muzzle nearly so far off
the target; it does not jar the shooter nearly so much, as a higher-
powered rifle, such as a or a .270 Winchester, or a German 8 mm.
Mauser, for instance, or one of the other military-type weapons
available.
Mr. EISENBERG - Is the killing power of the bullets essentially
similar to the killing power at these ranges---the killing power of
the rifles you have named?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG - How much difference is there?
Mr. FRAZIER - The higher velocity bullets of approximately the same
weight would have more killing power. This has a low velocity, but has
very adequate killing power with reference to humans, because it is a
military--it is an established military weapon.
HALE BOGGS - This is a military weapon, is it not?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
=================================
WORTH A REPLAY:
"This [Mannlicher-Carcano rifle designated Commission Exhibit
#139] has a low velocity, but has very adequate killing power with
reference to humans." -- Robert A. Frazier; 1964
robc...@netscape.com
> In article <f4f579cb-58e3-4b4e-8f3d-1063c9575...@n8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> robcap...@netscape.com says...
>
>
>
> >The WC claimed JFK was hit in the head with a FMJ copper-jacketed
> >bullet fired from a low-to-medium velocity rifle
>
> What's the definition of a "low-to-medium velocity rifle", Rob?
Surely you can look this up Ben? I have cited and will cite again,
but where is YOUR evidence for the claim that Dr. Burkley and the
forensic pathologists at PH did NOT know what they were talking
about? When can I see some cites for that?
Why is Ben fighting sooooo hard to have the Carcano viable as the
murder weapon?
> Citation please.
Sure, the WC's own EXPERT witness said it was a low velocity, go see
Robert Frazier's testimony at (3 H 414).
> Then provide a citation for the muzzle velocity of the 6.5mm MC
This is readily available on-line and WIDELY accepted Ben. YOU are
pulling at straws. Why does a pro-claimed CTer want the POSSIBILITY
to remain open for the Carcano to be the murder weapon?????
> But I predict that you will refuse to do so.
YOU predictions are a good as your words, USELESS. In case anyone was
NOT paying attention I have CITED EXPERTS, all we have gotten from Ben
is his "common sense." I guess his common sense OUTRANKS trained
forensic pathologist, huh?
What a joker!
robc...@netscape.com
> On May 26, 3:52 pm, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
> wrote:> The WC claimed JFK was hit in the head with a FMJ copper-jacketed
> > bullet fired from a low-to-medium velocity rifle and that this bullet
> > fragmented greatly leaving behing two fragments that would wind up in
> > the limo and also one that would remain in JFK's head. Meanwhile, they
> > endorsed the death certificate signed by JFK's personal physician,
> > Adm. Burkley, that stated the cause of death was due to a HIGH-
> > VELOCITY bullet hitting JFK in the head! They of course would bury
> > this death certificate and NOT include this very basic document in
> > their huge 10,000,000 word, 26 volume tomb to the case.
>
> > Why?
>
> Did you ever stop to think.....I'm sorry. Stupid question. Let me
> start over. I don't suppose it ever occured to you that at the time
> Burkley wrote the death certificate, he did not know the the velocity
> of the bullet in question and just assumed it was a high velocity
> bullet based on the degree of damage to JFK's head.
LOL!!! BigCon infers I don't think and then this moron thinks a doctor
will JUST ASSUME when it comes to the cause of death! IF this were
true BigCon, why did the WC endorse his findings? And then bury the
death certificate?
I love how Ben is fighting on the side of the LNers yet again too!
> Of course it
> didn't. You just throw stupid shit like this out without ever
> bothering to think things through. It's scary to think that you and
> Gillie are not the same person and there are two people in this world
> who are that fucking stupid.
He calls my stuff stupid when this clod thinks a doctor GUESSES at the
cause of death!!! Is this idiot been hit in the head by too many foul
balls or what?
Ben Holmes
robc...@netscape.com says...
>
>On May 26, 1:34=A0pm, bigdog <jecorbett1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On May 26, 3:52=A0pm, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
>> wrote:> The WC claimed JFK was hit in the head with a FMJ copper-jacketed
>> > bullet fired from a low-to-medium velocity rifle and that this bullet
>> > fragmented greatly leaving behing two fragments that would wind up in
>> > the limo and also one that would remain in JFK's head. Meanwhile, they
>> > endorsed the death certificate signed by JFK's personal physician,
>> > Adm. Burkley, that stated the cause of death was due to a HIGH-
>> > this death certificate and NOT include this very basic document in
>> > their huge 10,000,000 word, 26 volume tomb to the case.
>>
>> > Why?
>>
>> Did you ever stop to think.....I'm sorry. Stupid question. Let me
>> start over. I don't suppose it ever occured to you that at the time
>> Burkley wrote the death certificate, he did not know the the velocity
>> of the bullet in question and just assumed it was a high velocity
>> bullet based on the degree of damage to JFK's head.
>
>LOL!!! BigCon infers I don't think and then this moron thinks a doctor
>will JUST ASSUME when it comes to the cause of death! IF this were
>true BigCon, why did the WC endorse his findings? And then bury the
>death certificate?
>
>I love how Ben is fighting on the side of the LNers yet again too!
Nah Rob... it's *YOU* that's utilizing typical LNT'er tactics... speculation,
opinion, and a complete refusal to cite.
>> Of course it
>> didn't. You just throw stupid shit like this out without ever
>> bothering to think things through. It's scary to think that you and
>> Gillie are not the same person and there are two people in this world
>> who are that fucking stupid.
>
>He calls my stuff stupid when this clod thinks a doctor GUESSES at the
>cause of death!!! Is this idiot been hit in the head by too many foul
>balls or what?