THE STUPIDITY OF BUD
Gil Jesus
"In any case, here is what he ( LHO ) wrote to his brother Robert
from
Russia...
"In the event of war, I would kill any ["any" is underlined]
American
who put a uniform on in defense of the American Government - any
American."
I guess that included his fellow Marines, and even ex-servicemen,
like Kennedy. "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c9b6953b75ab95e4
Bud would like someone posing as a defector, whose mail is being
opened and read by the KGB before it leaves the country, to NOT write
anything anti-American and risk blowing his cover.
Bud
> Bud wrote:
>
> "In any case, here is what he ( LHO ) wrote to his brother Robert
> from
> Russia...
>
> "In the event of war, I would kill any ["any" is underlined]
> American
> who put a uniform on in defense of the American Government - any
> American."
>
> I guess that included his fellow Marines, and even ex-servicemen,
> like Kennedy. "
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c9b6953b75ab95e4
>
> Bud would like someone posing as a defector,
Bud has seen the kind of substantial evidence needed to support this
claim. He has only seen idiots say it a lot.
> whose mail is being
> opened and read by the KGB before it leaves the country, to NOT write
> anything anti-American and risk blowing his cover.
So, you`ve decided Oswald was not expressing his true feelings. You
are an idiot, Gil, of course you read "up", and interpret it as
'down". He began expressing a fondness for Marxist ideology in his
teens, there is plenty of information to support his lifetime
extremist political leanings. You and your fellow kooks want to
supplant this with wishful thinking. That Oswald was a spy is just one
more example of kooks accepting an extraordinary idea as established
fact, without the necessary support.
Walt
For you to deny that Oswald wasn't a US government agent when he went
to the USSR in 1959, you have your head up your ass.
Shortly after Oswald "defected" he received a new draft card. On Feb 2
1960 a new draft card was sent to Oswald in Minsk was classified IV
4A. ( qualified and elgible for reenlistment) Only a moron would
believe that the Marine Corps would classify him as IV 4A if he had
just a couple of months earlier denounced the Marine Corps and the
United States. If Oswald had been a true "turn coat" and a defector
the Marine Corps would have sent him a notice to appear for Court-
Martial.
Furthermore that "draft card" was "signed by" Gut Schiffer .... Which
is German for Good Marine.
Why would he receive compliments for completing an assigned task if he
was a true defector??
- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bud
What would be the purpose of sending him a draft card if he was an
agent, idiot? If him getting a draft card makes no sense, how can it
be used to establish anything? When bureaucracies do inexplicable
things, it is usually not by design.
> Furthermore that "draft card" was "signed by" Gut Schiffer .... Which
> is German for Good Marine.
>
> Why would he receive compliments for completing an assigned task if he
> was a true defector??
Why would he receive them if he was a uncover spy? What was the
thinking, that the Russian KBG reading his mail wouldn`t be able to
translate German? This is typical kook fodder, nothing like what you
kooks would have to produce to actually establish Oz was an agent.
Walt
Duh... Dud.... The CIA assumed that the draft card would be a clever
way to give Oswald a pat on the back for successfully penetrating the
"iron curtain" ..... And it was pretty clever. As I recall Draft
cards were sent without an envelope. They were a simple light post
card type paper that had the draft card perforated to be detached from
the form. The KGB agents probably took one look at that form and
passed it on to be delivered to Oswald.
Yer not the sharpest onion in the bin are ya.??
>
>
>
> > - Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Bud
No, you are an idiot who thinks he is more clever at spying than
the KGB. What are the chances you could figure this out, and they
could not? Why would the CIA go through all the trouble of creating a
false defector, and then risk it all for an unnecessary "attaboy"? You
just want to believe Oswald was an agent, so you latch onto this to
justify what you want to believe, thats all.
And you have to wonder what use an American agent being watched
like a hawk by the KGB in the USSR actually would be. What sensitive
information could he even get close to? This is all just a fairy tale
concocted by idiots. Apparently Gil thinks it`s stupid of me to look
at what Oswald actually said and did, instead of kook inventions.
Walt
Duh..Dud,... yer naivete is shining forth like a dandelion on a
putting green.
How utterly stupid of you to think that Oswald, a novice agent, would
be given a mission to gather sensitive information. Oswald's success
on penetrating the Iron Curtain was partly due to the fact that the
Russians saw an opportunity to use him to their advantage. There were
young Cubans being trained in espionage in Minsk. They were being
trained to infiltrate the US and appear to be Americans. But their
Russian instructors could not teach them how to speak
"American".....ie the slang and hip talk of the younger generation of
American youth. Oswald could be used to do that very thing. And if
you've read any of his "dairy' and Marina's testimony then you know
that many young "South Americans" visited Oswald in his apartment
where they had "parties"in which the South Americans would ask Oswald
how to pronounce certain words, or what a certain phrase meant... Or
they would simply listen to Oswald's American speech, so they could
emulate it. Oswald's mission was duofold.... His primary mission
was to set a radio frequency signal as a homing signal for Francis
Gary Powers U-2 plane. ( though it's doubtful that he was even aware
of his primaty mission, which involved his electric razor, which
emmitted a very distinct high frequency radio signal.) His secondary
mission and one that he probably was aware of was to identfy as many
of the Cubans as possible who were being trained at the spy school in
Minsk.
muc...@gmail.com
That's an amusing little theory you've got there, Walt, but how
certain can you possibly be that the name signed on the card is
"Gut[er] Schiffer"?
Walt
Take look at the draft card for yourself..........
Bud
A retard thinks this, and a retard thinks that. What do you really
have to put on that table to establish that Oswald was an agent?
Sam Brown
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:95ea16c4-50ee-4960...@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
I'd like to see a cite for that translation too.
muc...@gmail.com
Do I really have to repeat the question?
muc...@gmail.com
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
Sam, "Guter Schiffer" is indeed German for "Good skipper / boatman /
marine". My question to Walt concerned the interpretation of the
signature on Oswald's Notice of Classification card:
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JD/G/07.gif
The stated opinion of the WC's handwriting expert (Cole) was that the
first name began with either an "E" or a "G" and the surname was
"Schiffen". I'm not sure how Oswald could be expected to (a) interpret
the scrawl as a message written in a foreign language and (b) know
what it meant. An apparent attempt to imitate the signature on the
fake Hidell notice resulted in something like "Good Hoffer" (according
to Cole; online pics are unreadable, but perhaps there is a colour
version in Groden's Oswald book (which I don't have at hand)).
Sam Brown
<muc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5c8abbe9-d5bb-4e32...@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JD/G/07.gif
Thanks Mucher, it's interesting to note that the first person to address my
question is a fellow LNer.
I've looked at a German to English online dictionary and can find no
reference to schiffer. Can you help me out here?
I find it very amusing that the conspiranoids feel that Oswald, a dyslexic,
was capable of translating that scrawl into some kind of decipherable code.
Total Bollocks.
Bud
<snicker> Walt will only respond that the problem is yours. All of
Walt`s theories revolve around Walt deciding this is so, or that is
so. If you say you can`t see what he asserts as "so", he will merely
respond that having your head up you ass is what prevents you from
seeing the things he sees so clearly. The kooks would howl like
scalded cats if the WC used the evidence the way they use it.
muc...@gmail.com
> <much...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Hi Sam,
Try these:
http://www.wordreference.com/deen/schiffer
http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&query=schiffer
> I find it very amusing that the conspiranoids feel that Oswald, a dyslexic,
> was capable of translating that scrawl into some kind of decipherable code.
Yes... amusing...
> Total Bollocks.
-Mark :-)
Bud
You`d know better than I, Mark, but I did a little looking into the
German translation, and it seemed to me that the word meant "someone
who works on the water", "or mariner", a bargeman or sailor. I think
the German word for "marine" (a soldier on a boat) is "marine".
> http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JD/G/07.gif
Thanks for providing the link to this, Mark, I looked for it but
couldn`t locate it.
> The stated opinion of the WC's handwriting expert (Cole) was that the
> first name began with either an "E" or a "G" and the surname was
> "Schiffen". I'm not sure how Oswald could be expected to (a) interpret
> the scrawl as a message written in a foreign language and (b) know
> what it meant. An apparent attempt to imitate the signature on the
> fake Hidell notice resulted in something like "Good Hoffer" (according
> to Cole; online pics are unreadable, but perhaps there is a colour
> version in Groden's Oswald book (which I don't have at hand)).
Walt probably doesn`t accept that Oswald made this ID card, so he
won`t accept Oswald`s weak attempt at replicating the signature. Thats
the beauty of the kook position, what you can`t use in your crackpot
theories you can discard.
Walt
> <much...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Oswald was not dyslexic..... There isn't a single example of Oswald
being afflicted with dyslexia. He did misspell an occasional word but
he most certainly could understand what he read. In fact It would
appear that he was a voracious reader....which isn't something that a
person afflicted with dyslexia could do.
> was capable of translating that scrawl into some kind of decipherable code.
> Total Bollocks.- Hide quoted text -
muc...@gmail.com
My first guess would be "Marinesoldat".
> >http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JD/G/07.gif
>
> Thanks for providing the link to this, Mark, I looked for it but
> couldn`t locate it.
Change 7 to 6, and it's a link to a pic of the Hidell notice. The
"Good Hoffer" signature is hard to see, though.
> > The stated opinion of the WC's handwriting expert (Cole) was that the
> > first name began with either an "E" or a "G" and the surname was
> > "Schiffen". I'm not sure how Oswald could be expected to (a) interpret
> > the scrawl as a message written in a foreign language and (b) know
> > what it meant. An apparent attempt to imitate the signature on the
> > fake Hidell notice resulted in something like "Good Hoffer" (according
> > to Cole; online pics are unreadable, but perhaps there is a colour
> > version in Groden's Oswald book (which I don't have at hand)).
>
> Walt probably doesn`t accept that Oswald made this ID card, so he
> won`t accept Oswald`s weak attempt at replicating the signature. Thats
> the beauty of the kook position, what you can`t use in your crackpot
> theories you can discard.
I sometimes envy them the luxury they have of cherry-picking the
evidence and letting the imagination run wild.
Sam Brown
<muc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2a24ae69-5364-4895...@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com...
Cheers much, I stand corrected.
Walt
Duh....Dud, if you were just a tad brighter you might have realized
that by acknowleging that Oswald attempted to use the same clever
tactic of signing an official looking document ( the Hidell draft
card) with a phoney signature that might read " Good Luck". he's
making use of something that he's learned..... and where had he seen
that tactic used before....On the "draft card" that he received in
Minsk.
what you can`t use in your crackpot
> theories you can discard.- Hide quoted text -
Bud
Could be what they would call such a thing, but I`m not sure they
really have such branch in their military, at least not like the
United States Marine Corps (or your Korps Mariniers). All I could find
was that they fielded "naval infantry".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Naval_Infantry_Division_(Germany)
> > >http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JD/G/07.gif
>
> > Thanks for providing the link to this, Mark, I looked for it but
> > couldn`t locate it.
>
> Change 7 to 6, and it's a link to a pic of the Hidell notice. The
> "Good Hoffer" signature is hard to see, though.
That one I could find on McAdam`s site. As you say, the signature is
unreadable.
> > > The stated opinion of the WC's handwriting expert (Cole) was that the
> > > first name began with either an "E" or a "G" and the surname was
> > > "Schiffen". I'm not sure how Oswald could be expected to (a) interpret
> > > the scrawl as a message written in a foreign language and (b) know
> > > what it meant. An apparent attempt to imitate the signature on the
> > > fake Hidell notice resulted in something like "Good Hoffer" (according
> > > to Cole; online pics are unreadable, but perhaps there is a colour
> > > version in Groden's Oswald book (which I don't have at hand)).
>
> > Walt probably doesn`t accept that Oswald made this ID card, so he
> > won`t accept Oswald`s weak attempt at replicating the signature. Thats
> > the beauty of the kook position, what you can`t use in your crackpot
> > theories you can discard.
>
> I sometimes envy them the luxury they have of cherry-picking the
> evidence and letting the imagination run wild.
It helps to keep in mind that they are playing games with the facts
surrounding the murders of some people. Kook claims that Tippit was
sent to kill Oswald are akin to blaming the firemen that died on 9-11
for burning down the twin towers.
David Von Pein
>>> "Oswald was not dyslexic. There isn't a single example of Oswald being afflicted with dyslexia." <<<
Walt, as usual, doesn't know what he's talking about.
Quoting from Vincent Bugliosi's book:
"The Warren Commission hired Dr. Howard P. Rome, a psychiatrist
for the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, to analyze Oswald's
writings and give his professional opinion. In a letter to Warren
Commission assistant counsel Wesley Liebeler dated September 8, 1964
[CE3134; linked below...], Rome concluded that Oswald was suffering
from "constitutional dyslexia," [CE3134; Pg. 7] a "reading-spelling
disability" that can exist, he said, "in the absence of intellectual
defect or of defect of the sense organs." " -- Vince Bugliosi; Page
944 of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)
CE3134 (Page 7):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0426a.htm
I guess Walt thinks he knows more about diagnosing "dyslexia" than
professional psychiatrist Dr. Howard Rome does. Huh, Walt?
And, once more, here we have another situation where all I had to do
was turn to the comprehensive pages of Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming
History" in order to swiftly and easily debunk the ill-informed
ramblings of a conspiracy-happy kook (Walter C.).
This same thing has happened numerous other times since May 2007 when
I've been in need of readily-accessible and easy-to-locate information
in order to illustrate how wrong most conspiracy theorists are on
virtually every single issue that surfaces associated with John F.
Kennedy's murder.
I merely search the "Reclaiming History" index for the sub-topic being
mangled by the conspiracy kooks (if, that is, it's a topic that I'm
not thoroughly knowledgeable about myself; or a topic where a little
extra "VB CS&L" is desired), and almost every time Vince has supplied
a goodly amount of CT-debunking material for the sub-topic in question
(like this "dyslexia" subject, for example).
I just skimmed the index of "RH" under the name "Oswald, Lee Harvey",
knowing I was likely to find a sub-section there for "dyslexia
of"....and, sure enough, there are several references to this subject
in the book's massive 71-page index, including the quoted passage from
page 944 that I cited above.
Now, in my opinion, THAT is the ultimate definition of a "Reference
Book" -- i.e., a book you can turn to with respect to virtually ANY
sub-topic when it comes to the main topic of: "The Assassination of
JFK", and you're very likely to find the answer there.
That is the beauty of Vincent T. Bugliosi's "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY" -- a book, indeed, "for
the ages".
Bud
Of course if he is going to create a phony card, he`d use his real
one as a guide as to how it should look, idiot.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sscard.jpg
Sam Brown
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:cf008398-1182-4bf1...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
I have to agree with you Dave. It really is the most comprehensive resource
and fabulous for your biceps!
muc...@gmail.com
Dyslexic agents sending trivial messages, in broken German, hidden in
unintelligible signatures, on fake documents... can't you see how
silly this is? Hoffen, btw, is the German verb for "hope".
Walt
Hoffen is German for "hope"..... "fortune"..."luck."
>
>
>
> > making use of something that he's learned..... and where had he seen
> > that tactic used before....On the "draft card" that he received in
> > Minsk.
>
> > > what you can`t use in your crackpot
> > > theories you can discard.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
muc...@gmail.com
No, German for "hope" is "hoffen" (verb) or "Hoffnung" (noun). The
word for "luck" is "Glück".