ABC'S 2003 ASSASSINATION POLL -- 83% THINK OSWALD FIRED A GUN AT PRESIDENT KENNEDY
David Von Pein
VIA ANOTHER JFK FORUM.....
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Per a 2003 ABC poll (which included twice the number of respondents
than the Gallup Poll), only 7% of people asked thought that Oswald was
completely innocent (i.e., only 7 of every 100 think that Oswald
didn't fire a shot at JFK).
Compared to the paranoid fringe that appear on Internet sites, that's
quite a difference. Because probably better than 85% of those paranoid
kooks seem to think Oswald never fired a shot.
2003 poll:
www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
PAT SPEER THEN SAID:
David, your interpretation of the poll results is incorrect, and
reflects an obvious bias. Although only 7% of conspiracy theorists
thought that Oswald was "not involved"[,] that by no means means the
rest thought he was a shooter. The majority of conspiracy theorists
believe he was involved on some level; some believe he was a lookout,
others believe he was infiltrating the plot on behalf of an
intelligence organization. Only a minority believe he fired a shot at
Kennedy.
DVP THEN SAID:
Yes, it does mean exactly that...because of the specific way ABC News
worded that particular question.
Better look again. 83% of the 1,031 people polled think Oswald was
definitely firing a gun at JFK via that "gunman" polling question:
www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
NICK KENDRICK THEN SAID:
As usual, David is right and you [Pat Speer] are wrong.
Question, ABC news poll, November 5-9th, 2003.
"Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was the only gunman in the Kennedy
assassination, do you think there was another gunman in addition to
Oswald there that day, or do you think Oswald was not involved in the
assassination at all?"
Only Oswald - 32% (All of them CIA, presumably - NSR)
Another Gunman - 52% [it was actually 51%]
Oswald Not Involved - 7%
No Opinion - 10%
Source: http://www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
Plainly, the question is phrased so that people who (are insane enough
to) believe that Oswald was a "lookout" or a "government operative"
but (are insane enough to) believe that Oswald didn´t fire a single
shot, would answer "Oswald not involved". The figure for those who
(are insane enough to) believe Oswald wasn´t involved is clear - an
unlucky seven percent. When it comes to sheer arrogance and pomposity,
patspeer, you take the cake. You owe David an apology and you owe
yourself a reality check - either Oswald was innocent, which goes
against all the evidence, or he acted alone.
PAT SPEER THEN SAID:
Here is the question, David:
"Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was the only gunman in the Kennedy
assassination, do you think there was another gunman in addition to
Oswald there that day, or do you think Oswald was not involved in the
assassination at all?"
By asking whether or not "Oswald was not involved in the assassination
at all" as opposed to the more logical third alternative "Oswald was
not a shooter on 11-22-63"[,] the question becomes blurred. The words
"at all" bit extend way beyond merely shooting.
FWIW: There is a book called "Tainting Evidence" which deals with this
very phenomena--the skewing of poll results via adding bits like "at
all" at the end of the question.
Over the years, I have discussed the Kennedy assassination with at
least 1,000 people beyond those I've met online or at conventions. The
vast majority have no real opinion on the assassination; many saw
[Oliver Stone's] JFK and were half-convinced but then saw the ABC or
the Discovery Channel and were half-convinced, etc. IMO, this
represents the bulk of Americans. Most of them--rightly or wrongly--
have doubts that Oswald could have fired the shots. A large
percentage--perhaps a majority--believe he was involved in some way,
however.
So, bottom line. You are correct to point out that the number of
people thinking Oswald was some innocent guy framed because he was a
leftist is small. But you are totally incorrect if you think the vast
majority of Americans think Oswald shot Kennedy.
NICK KENDRICK THEN SAID:
Now now, Pat Speer, it's very simple - David was right, and you were
(once again) wrong. Pompously, arrogantly and stupidly wrong. That's
all there is to it.
Naturally, I didn't really expect you to have the class to apologize
to David, but at the very least, you could have avoided compounding
your stupidity.
Oh well.
PAT SPEER THEN SAID:
Geez, Louise. Let's be CLEAR about this. David and Nick (assuming
they're not the same person--ha) are now BOTH claiming that 93% of
Americans think Oswald shot Kennedy. Is this right?
If so, I suggest they both get out a little bit, and talk to people
other than themselves (ha).
DVP THEN SAID:
Again, Pat Speer misses the boat (and point). I was talking about the
SPECIFIC POLL done by ABC News in Nov. 2003.
And that's a poll (whether you like its results or not) that shows,
undeniably, that 83% (not 93%, because 10% had "no opinion" one way or
the other) of the respondents--which numbered 1,031 people, twice the
number of the Gallup Poll, btw--were of the opinion that Lee Harvey
Oswald was firing a gun at JFK on 11/22/63.
Live with it, Pat.
www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
PAT SPEER THEN SAID:
Weak sauce, David. You prop up a poll with misleading data and then
run from it when I ask you to say you believe what it implied.
Once again...It was a flawed poll because it had a flawed question.
Think of it in the reverse. If the same group of people had been asked
if they 1) thought the Warren Commission deliberately misled the
public, or 2) thought the Warren Commission told the truth ABOUT
EVERYTHING, how many do you think could bring themselves to go along
with #2? Almost no one, right?
It is the use of the absolute that steers the vote. Same thing with
the ABC poll. By saying "not involved at all"[,] the pollsters knew
damn well they were steering their subjects in the opposite direction.
DVP THEN SAID:
Pat, you must be totally blind not to recognize that the first two
parts of the question (within that particular 2003 ABC Poll question
being discussed here) have the word "GUNMAN" in them:
1.) "Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was the only gunman in the Kennedy
assassination."
2.) "Do you think there was another gunman in addition to Oswald there
that day."
32% of the 1,031 people responding voted for #1 above, while another
51% said #2 was their choice.
Which means, by definition, Pat, that 83% total thought that Oswald
was, indeed, shooting at Kennedy.
You cannot slide by those figures and pretend that that 83% really
didn't understand the question or utilize some other excuse to skew
the plain-as-day figures regarding the "GUNMAN" topic in the JFK
assassination.
The fact is that more than 8 out of every 10 of those respondents said
they thought that Oswald was either the lone gunman in Dallas or that
Oswald was one of the gunmen -- hence, the words "ANOTHER GUNMAN" in
the wording of the second part of that particular question.
And since the words "ANOTHER GUNMAN" are followed by the words "IN
ADDITION TO OSWALD" in the wording of the poll's question, those
respondents who fall into that "Another Gunman" category are telling
ABC News that Oswald was ONE OF THE GUNMEN they thought were shooting
at President Kennedy.
Get it now, Pat? Or should we dance around this Mulberry bush a few
more times before the obviousness of this whole thing sinks in?
www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
ABC'S 2003 ASSASSINATION POLL -- 83% THINK OSWALD WAS SHOOTING AT JFK:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c0189f6da4be3133
"BOOGIE KNIGHT" THEN SAID:
Pat, once again proving that a self-taught man has an idiot for both a
teacher and a student, is showing that polling, like other topics such
as "science" and "forensics", is just beyond his grasp.
PAT SPEER THEN SAID:
I see your point, David, but I assure you that the question is
deceptive.
DVP THEN SAID:
Well, your "assurance" doesn't mean much.
PAT SPEER THEN SAID:
If asked, point blank, "Do you believe Lee Harvey Oswald shot John F.
Kennedy?"[,] do you REALLY believe 83% of those asked would say
"yes"[?]"
DVP THEN SAID:
Yes. Absolutely.
But you don't need my opinion on that matter, because we have the
results of just such a "Do You Think LHO Shot JFK?" inquiry in black-
and-white via the ABC News poll from 2003:
www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
The "gunman" question in that ABC poll couldn't be any clearer, with
ABC asking those 1,031 people if they thought Oswald was the "ONLY
GUNMAN" or if there was "ANOTHER GUNMAN IN ADDITION TO OSWALD" or if
Oswald was "NOT INVOLVED IN THE ASSASSINATION AT ALL".
I think you're probably confusing the answer you'd get from kooks at
Internet forums like this one with the answer you'd get to that
question from the vast majority of Americans who don't frequent pro-
conspiracy Internet boards.
The Anybody-But-Oswald nuts that are abundant online certainly do not
reflect the thinking of the majority of America.
Probably 85% of the kooks online think Oswald never fired a shot. But,
as the ABC poll demonstrates, the majority of people in the mainstream
who have an opinion on the subject believe Oswald was firing a gun at
JFK.
That doesn't mean, however, that that same mainstream doesn't believe
in a conspiracy, as these numbers from the exact same 2003 ABC News
poll readily suggest:
"Do you feel the Kennedy assassination was the work of one man,
or was it part of a broader plot?":
One Man -- 22%
Broader Plot -- 70%
No Opinion -- 8%
Also, let me add this:
You, Pat Speer, seem to think the ABC poll's "gunman" question is
deceptive and misleading. But let me ask you this:
If the 83% of people who comprise the first two categories of that
"gunman" question really DIDN'T believe that Oswald was a "gunman" at
all, then why on Earth would they have responded the way they did to
that poll's question (which, as I said, couldn't be any clearer with
respect to the first two segments of that inquiry, with the word
"gunman" appearing in both segments)?
Why would 83% say that LHO was a gunman if a certain percentage of
those respondents really DIDN'T believe such a thing?
I'll leave you to sort out my last question in your own mind.
=======================================
Source -- IMDB.com:
www.imdb.com/title/tt0102138/board/flat/128662388
www.imdb.com/title/tt0102138/board/threads
=======================================
=======================================
tomnln
I can make any poll come out the way I want it to.
I can choose to poll people in an Affluent neighborhood or, Your
neighborhood.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ca9281b7-063a-4b49...@q16g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/22f7eaa4501a9b85
Simply put -- CTers just don't like the fact that 83% of the 1,031
people who participated in the 2003 ABC News poll were of the opinion
(as of November 2003 anyway) that the CTers' favorite patsy was guilty
of murdering the President.
As we all know around these parts, if anybody dares suggest Sweet Lee
was actually guilty of the 2 murders he so obviously committed in '63,
those people suggesting it are in for a whole lot of silly-sounding
obfuscation and evidence-dodging by the Internet's conspiracy
theorists.
Sad, but true.
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5b47803a-c804-4db5...@y7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
You know as well as I that we can make a poll come out Any way we want it to
David.
That's done by deciding Which neighborhood to take that poll in.
We can take that poll in an Affluent neighborhood or, Your neighborhood.
David Von Pein
>>> "I can make any poll come out the way I want it to." <<<
Oh, good! Look, kids! Rossley just added several more
"conspirators"/"cover-uppers" to his endless list of plotters and
henchmen and evil-doers connected to JFK's demise.
I.E., Rossley is now suggesting that the people who put together and
tabulated the 2003 JFK-assassination poll for the American
Broadcasting Company are (or were) up to no good in 2003 when they
created that poll.
Who's going to be next on Rossley's "conspirators"/"cover-up agents"
list? -- President Obama perhaps? Or his new dog, Bo?
Or maybe Jack Ruby's dog, Sheba, was a plotter too?
Or, very possibly, 20-year-old nightclub stripper Karen Carlin?
In fact, there's almost NO CHANCE at all of Rossley thinking that Mrs.
Carlin was NOT a big part of the "plot" to kill Lee Oswald on
11/24/63.
Because without Carlin doing the things she did and making the calls
to Ruby that she made on Nov. 23 and Nov. 24, 1963, it's very, very
likely that Jack Ruby would not have been anywhere near the Dallas
City Jail at approx. 11:10 to 11:20 AM on Sunday, 11/24/63.
Hence, Carlin MUST be a big part of the "plot"/"ruse".
Right, Rossley?
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/7ff62f2b47c5ff79
>>> "The most amusing part of the debate was when he [THOMAS "ULTRA-KOOK" ROSSLEY] was asked if any shots were fired from the 6th floor window, and he answered with a dismissive, "I don't know". "I don't know"? Talk about missing the forest for the trees! He's *certain* about every trivial detail in peripheral issues, but when it comes to a major question that's actually important, he muffs it." <<<
Indeed. And if Rossley decides that no shots at all came from the Book
Depository's Sniper's Nest (a la Bob Groden's theory), Rossley must
then totally dismiss (as a liar or a cover-up agent, I guess) the
never-wavering comments made by Harold Norman, when Norman says he
positively heard multiple shots being fired from directly above his
head (i.e., from the southeast corner of the sixth floor of the TSBD).
Oh, well...that's just one more person to add to Rossley's never-
ending list of plotters and/or cover-uppers (Mr. Norman).
Of course, I'm pretty confident that Norman was probably already on
Tom's list of "liars" and/or "plotters" long before Mr. Rossley
debated Mr. McAdams on April 5, 2009.
After all, isn't everybody with two arms and two legs currently on
Kook Rossley's "liars" list?
aeffects
> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/22f7e...
>
> Simply put -- CTers just don't like the fact that 83% of the 1,031
> people who participated in the 2003 ABC News poll were of the opinion
> (as of November 2003 anyway) that the CTers' favorite patsy was guilty
> of murdering the President.
yaeh.... that'd be around Dale Myers first cartoon, right? LMFAO!
Back to the drawing board chump!.... and remember no fucking free
advertising, ya coward!
Ben Holmes
aeffects says...
>
>On Apr 16, 10:03=A0pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/22f7e...
>>
>> Simply put -- CTers just don't like the fact that 83% of the 1,031
>> people who participated in the 2003 ABC News poll were of the opinion
>> (as of November 2003 anyway) that the CTers' favorite patsy was guilty
>> of murdering the President.
Not at all. We accept that the educational system & traditional mass media has
been busy brainwashing people - so they simply don't know the actual evidence.
And even ignorant of the evidence as the educational system & traditional mass
media keeps people, that poll you refer to *STILL* agreed that there was a broad
plot in the murder of JFK by 70%. Embarrassing, isn't it DVP?
Indeed, 68% believed that there was an *OFFICIAL* coverup...
Does anyone else here feel as I do, that DVP is rather stupid to be referring
people to polls that so dramatically undercut his faith?
>yaeh.... that'd be around Dale Myers first cartoon, right? LMFAO!
>
>Back to the drawing board chump!.... and remember no fucking free
>advertising, ya coward!
>
>
>> As we all know around these parts, if anybody dares suggest Sweet Lee
>> was actually guilty of the 2 murders he so obviously committed in '63,
>> those people suggesting it are in for a whole lot of silly-sounding
>> obfuscation and evidence-dodging by the Internet's conspiracy
>> theorists.
>>
>> Sad, but true.
The only people dodging the evidence are the cowards currently refusing to
address it... see the 45 Questions if you decide to be honest.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
tomnln
David;
I can make any poll come out the way I want it to.
I can choose to poll people in an Affluent neighborhood or, Your
neighborhood.
WHICH "Coward" also RAN from an opportunity to engage me on the radio
debate?????
None other than David Von Pain(in the ass)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4284516d-9de3-4cbf...@k2g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
Gil Jesus
> David;
>
> I can make any poll come out the way I want it to.
>
> I can choose to poll people in an Affluent neighborhood or, Your
> neighborhood.
> VIA ANOTHER JFK FORUM.....
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Better look again. 83% of the 1,031 people polled think Oswald was
> definitely firing a gun at JFK via that "gunman" polling question:
>
> www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
1,031 is a pretty good representation of 300 million
Americans.......NOT.