Why Was The First Carcano In Evidence Replaced By The Second Carcano In Evidence?
Sam McClung
mount sling to a younger looking bottom mount sling?
"OIL OF OLAY~~IT CAN HELP YOU LOOK YOUNGER TOO!"
aaronhi...@yahoo.com
that.
The backyard photos show a bottom mounted sling made of rope or
cloth. The MC in evidence in the JFK shooting has a side mounted
leather sling that looks as weathered as the rest of the rifle. And
there is no explanation for the discrepancy. And, nobody from the
government or the corporate media ever pointed out this discrepancy,
either.
Aaron Hirshberg
aaronhi...@yahoo.com
Aaron Hirshberg
Walt
Aaron.....You're making a very common mistake....
Most people who view the BY photos make the mistake of comparing one
against the others.
Ther is only one AUTHENTIC back yard photo. That photo is the ONLY
photo that Marina took of Lee in their backyard. It became Warren
Commission exhibit CE 133A. Both CE 133B and the Geneva White photo
(133C) are fakes created by the DPD.
It is impossible to determine the authenticity of an object if a
person doesn't know what the original looked like.
For example:.... If someone handed you two $100 doolar bills and told
you that one was counterfeit and one was authentic and you could keep
the authentic bill but had to give back the counterfeit bill. You
could not determine which bill was authentic by comparing one bill
against the other. You probably would spot some differences in the
bills but that wouldn't reveal which bill was the real thing.
The same idea applies to the Back Yard photos. Marina only remember
taking ONE photo, and was stunned and confused when the WC lawyer
showed her the second photo ( CE 133B) She was at a loss because she
knew that she had only taken ONE photo, but here the lawyer was
showing her a second one. She attempted to help the commission by
suggesting that she perhaps had pushed the shutter twice. Which if
she had known anything about cameras she would have known that
clicking the shutter twice would have produced a double exposure, and
her explanation was nonsense.
Lee Oswald knew how to determine an authentic BY photo from a fake BY
photo.....( naturally, he had worked with that photo (CE 133A) and
signed the back of a copy of it and gave it to G.DeM.) so when the
cops showed him 133c he immediately knew that the photo they were
showing him was a fake.
Now back to the subject at hand..... The one and only AUTHENTIC B.Y.
photo shows Lee Oswald holding a 40 inch long model 91 / 38 Mannlicher
Carcano short rifle with NO SLING ( what appears to be a sling was
added to the photo) and the front sling swivel hanging empty beneath
the front barrel band. The rifle in Oswald's hands in CE 133A is a
rather rare DUAL sling mount version of the model 91 /38. The dual
sling mount version allowed the user to attach a sling to either the
side or the bottom of the rifle. Naturally the viewer can't see the
side sling swivel in CE 133A because it would have been on the side of
the rifle away from the camera. However...the BOTTOM sling swivel is
clearly visible. Which means that the rifle that Oswald was holding
when Marina snapped the shutter is.... NOT .... the rifle that
wasfound in the TSBD.
LOOK at the "sling" in CE 133A.... Notice that it tricks the viewer
into thinking the rifle has a sling on it. But if you look close
you'll notice that the fake sling isn't attached to the rifle, and it
isn't attached at the normal mounting points. It seems to hang
beneath the rifle like the handle on a piece of luggage, which could
mean that whoever added that "sling" to the photo didn't know much
about rifles, and thought that the sling was used like the handle on a
purse. Also notice that the "sling" is light colored..... The rifle
that was found in the TSBD had a very dark colored sling mounted in
SIDE swivels. A dark colored sling would have reflected very little
sunlight, and would have been nearly invisible in a photo.
Sam McClung
i recall mcleer doing some of the photo analysis work on the sling but don't
know who the source of the sling discrepancy is, any idea? maybe walt?
the government or corporate america won't be pointing out many
discrepancies, why convict themselves with that?
so far they've done a nice job of dancing around the fact that i have
disclosed the north knoll sniper in two photographic evidence sources
holding the smoking murder weapon within 1 and 9 seconds of the headshot, as
well as explaining how the murder weapon was removed from dealey plaza by
jack ruby...
this won't look good on the cover of time...
Walt
> aaron,
>
> i recall mcleer doing some of the photo analysis work on the sling but don't
> know who the source of the sling discrepancy is, any idea? maybe walt?
Jerry and I worked together on the sling controversy. Jerry deserves
all the credit for the excellent photo analysis. He certainly knows
his stuff when it comes to photography!..... As you know CIA agent,
Dr. Lattimer introduced disinformation into the sling controversy by
claiming that Oswald had made the sling on the TSBD rifle from an old
US Airforce Sam Brown belt.
What most folks don't know is: Mussolini had an elite corps of body
guards who were equipped with custom black uniforms. All of their
clothing and trapping were black colored, Including their helmets and
rifles. Since these elite troops were required to spend long hours on
guard duty with the rifle hanging from their shoulder, the narrow
( 3/4"wide ) standard issue sling cut into their shoulder and became
very uncomfortable. To ease the discomfort caused by the 3/4'
standard issue sling the were provided with custom black slings for
their rifles that had a large wide leather patch attached to the
leather strap by "D" rings.
Those custom slings of the Guardie del Duce were EXACTLY like the
sling on the TSBD rifle.
Does anybody really believe that Oswald could have reproduced an EXACT
reproduction of Guardie del Duce sling by sheer luck??
If Lee Oswald had made a sling for a Carcano, what would he have used
as a model?? Oswald being a Marine had learned how to employ the
sling on an M1 as an aid to more accurate shooting. He was familiar
with the standard issue sling of the M1 Garand and that is what he
would have used as a model had he made a sling for a Carcano.
robcap...@netscape.com
> aaron,
>
> i recall mcleer doing some of the photo analysis work on the sling but don't
> know who the source of the sling discrepancy is, any idea? maybe walt?
Here is Jerry's article:
http://www.geocities.com/jfkresearch/c2766.html
Funny thing, he says the weapon found was 39 inches too, just like
Bill MacDowall did in the "The Great Carcano Swindle", but when I said
this last year I was jumped on by a person who worked on this article
as incorrect.
Notice the great descrepancies in the "C2766" scripting he points out
as well.
tomnln
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:c81da6f8-46a5-4639...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Walt
wrote:
> On Sep 17, 7:20 am, "Sam McClung" <mccl...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > aaron,
>
> > i recall mcleer doing some of the photo analysis work on the sling but don't
> > know who the source of the sling discrepancy is, any idea? maybe walt?
>
> Here is Jerry's article:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jfkresearch/c2766.html
>
> Funny thing, he says the weapon found was 39 inches too, just like
> Bill MacDowall did in the "The Great Carcano Swindle", but when I said
> this last year I was jumped on by a person who worked on this article
> as incorrect.
Very Good, Rob..... You think that there is a discrepancy of one inch
in the length of a standard Model 91 /38 MC and the rifle that was
found inthe TSBD. Now all you have to do is provide us with
documentation that there was ever a Mannlicher Carcano produced that
was 39 inches long.
I'm not holding my breath ......
>
> Notice the great descrepancies in the "C2766" scripting he points out
> as well.
>
>
>
>
>
> > the government or corporate america won't be pointing out many
> > discrepancies, why convict themselves with that?
>
> > so far they've done a nice job of dancing around the fact that i have
> > disclosed the north knoll sniper in two photographic evidence sources
> > holding the smoking murder weapon within 1 and 9 seconds of the headshot, as
> > well as explaining how the murder weapon was removed from dealey plaza by
> > jack ruby...
>
> > this won't look good on the cover of time...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sam McClung
photographic evidence walt?
i recall the del Duce Carcano discussion years ago, when ritchson was alive,
wasn't walker suspected as being a possible source, as a trophy he may have
acquired in italy in ww two? seems one of the carcanos in evidence had a
blackened stock also characteristic of the del Duce
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:94cb95dd-c320-44a8...@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
robcap...@netscape.com
> On 17 Sep, 11:28, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 17, 7:20 am, "Sam McClung" <mccl...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > > aaron,
>
> > > i recall mcleer doing some of the photo analysis work on the sling but don't
> > > know who the source of the sling discrepancy is, any idea? maybe walt?
>
> > Here is Jerry's article:
>
> >http://www.geocities.com/jfkresearch/c2766.html
>
> > Funny thing, he says the weapon found was 39 inches too, just like
> > Bill MacDowall did in the "The Great Carcano Swindle", but when I said
> > this last year I was jumped on by a person who worked on this article
> > as incorrect.
>
> Very Good, Rob..... You think that there is a discrepancy of one inch
> in the length of a standard Model 91 /38 MC and the rifle that was
> found inthe TSBD. Now all you have to do is provide us with
> documentation that there was ever a Mannlicher Carcano produced that
> was 39 inches long.
>
> I'm not holding my breath ......
Why don't you demand proof from the man you wrote the article with?
He is the one showing photos of the weapon NOT being 40.2 inches
long?
> > Notice the great descrepancies in the "C2766" scripting he points out
> > as well.
>
> > > the government or corporate america won't be pointing out many
> > > discrepancies, why convict themselves with that?
>
> > > so far they've done a nice job of dancing around the fact that i have
> > > disclosed the north knoll sniper in two photographic evidence sources
> > > holding the smoking murder weapon within 1 and 9 seconds of the headshot, as
> > > well as explaining how the murder weapon was removed from dealey plaza by
> > > jack ruby...
>
> > > this won't look good on the cover of time...- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
curtjester1
This is all tremendously interesting, Walt. So I guess this photo of
CE 133A could be termed a 'fake-authentic'. Can you tell me why the
Conspirators would want to add this sling? What was the sling status
of the other's, 133B and C? Why would they even go about making fakes
when they would be differentiated with the 'original'? And last but
not least, how do you know Marina even took the first one beside's the
fact she said she did?
CJ
Walt
> were you the one to discover the bottom vs. side sling controversy in the
> photographic evidence walt?
Yes, I am the first nonconspirator that noticed the sling swivel
hanging beneath the barrel band of the rifle in CE 133A.
( The FBI knew about it long before I noticed it)
Many others had viewed the picture but never picked up on that bottom
sling swivel because they knew nothing about Mannlicher Carcanos. I
thank God for guiding me on paths where I learned things unknown to
others. I would never have noticed that sling swivel if I hadn't
studied up on Mannlicher Carcanos. Once I learned that some MC's
were made with dual sling swivels that allowed the user to attach the
sling to either the bottom or the side of the rifle THEN the bottom
sling swivel became noticable to me. I could see it clearly and
Jerry worked with the photo to prove that what we saw was actually the
front sling swivel on the bottom of the rifle.
>
> i recall the del Duce Carcano discussion years ago, when ritchson was alive,
> wasn't walker suspected as being a possible source, as a trophy he may have
> acquired in italy in ww two? seems one of the carcanos in evidence had a
> blackened stock also characteristic of the del Duce
Absolutely correct..... The color picture of the TSBD rifle in the
November 1983 issue of LIFE magazine shows that the rifle was stained
black ( some of the stain has worn off ) and it had a custom black
leather sling exactly like the the slings of the Guardie del Duce.
It is entirely possible that General Edwin Walker (A Nazi symp)
picked up one of the Guardie del Duce custom Rifles ( black stock and
custom black sling) when he commanded the (24th? division) as they
conquered Italy during WWII. He could easily have kept it as a war
trophy and had it planted in the TSBD to frame Oswald.
However, there is the problem of the serial number of the TSBD rifle
to be taken into consideration. Apparently the TSBD rifle with the
serial number C2766 was sent to PO Box 2915 in Dallas. I simple find
it unacceptable that Walker would have a Guardie del Duce rifle with
the same serial number as the rifle that was sent by Kleins to
Dallas.
There may be a possible explanation for the problem in knowing that it
would have been a simple matter to install a replacement barrel on
Walker's war trophy and stamp it with the C 2766 serial number. If
you assume that the killers knew that Oswald had ordered a Mannlicher
Carcano and that rifle had the number C2766 but that rifle had been
destroyed or lost, then they would have been forced to find another
similiar rifle and stamp the same number on it.
I've made a small effort to see if the dies that were used to stamp
the C2766 on the TSBD rifle match other Carcanos that were produced in
the same factory that produced C2766. I haven't had much luck because
the people who own Carcanos that were manufactured in that plant at
about that time are uncooperative. Perhaps someone else can sweet
talk the owners into producing photos of the serial numbers of their
rifles for comparison with C2766.
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
Walt
CJ I would guess that someone at the DPD noticed immediately that the
TSBD rifle had a sling while the BY photo (CE 133A ) had no sling.
Without giving it to much thought they decided to correct that little
problem by adding a "sling" to the rifle in the photo. That's a
WAG! There may be another explanation for the fake sling added to CE
133A. Hell Oswald himself may have added that sling just to make the
rifle more visible. I don't know who did it or why....I just know
that the "sling" in CE 133A is not actually a black leather sling.
What was the sling status
> of the other's, 133B and C? Why would they even go about making fakes
> when they would be differentiated with the 'original'?
CJ Don't forget that we the gullible public knew NOTHING about any
Back Yard photos until February 1964. The authorities kept the fact
that there was a BY photo hidden from us until February. ( why??)
They probably wouldn't have released them then but ugly rumors were
flying fast and furious that Johnson was behind the assassination.
They were desperate to place something before the public that would
stiffle the ugly rumors. Hence the BY photo was "leaked" to the
Detroit Free Press, a newspaper in Gerald Ford's home district. Once
it was in the public forum LIFE magazine grabbed it and enlarged it
and put it on the from cover of The Feb 21 issue of LIFE magazine.
That LIFE magazine was THE key that convicted Oswald in the eyes of
the gullible public. It was printed in a huge B&W photograph on the
cover of LIFE which was prominently displayed on newsstands in
supermarkets across America. Anybody seeing that cover of LIFE got
the impressio that they were looking at an old fashioned Wanted poster
of a villian. The caption that accompanied that photo was " Oswald
with the guns that he used to kill President Kennedy" left no doubt
in the viewers mind that Oswald was the killer.
Answer to (why?) above..... They authorities knew that all of the
"evidence" that had been presented in the newspapers seemed just a
little to pat and smacked of a frame up of Oswald. ( see the Hoover,
and the Katzenbach memos) Had they released a Back Yard photo
everybody would have said: "Hey!, wait just a doggone minute!! This
is all just a little bit too pat, and I think we're having the wool
pulled over our eyes."
And last but
> not least, how do you know Marina even took the first one beside's the
> fact she said she did?
CJ I believe you'll just have to study up on this .... It would take
way too much band width to answer that question.
She not only said she took a back yard picture but it is also
discussed in George De M's testimony and in other places through out
the case. There's no doubt in my mind that she did take ONE photo (CE
133A) but you'll just have to decide for yourself.
>
> CJ- Hide quoted text -
Walt
CJ I forgot to mention that the authorities weren't overly concerned
about any discrepancies between photos. (There were only two at the
time the Warren Commission was in session) They never intended for us
to look beyond what they told us. They were the experts and we were
simply gullible "pissants" (as LBJ liked to call us.)
They had gave us CE 133A ( to support their claim that Oswald was the
killer) and they never anticipated anybody asking questions about
discrepancies between the two photos. If anybody should be so brash
as to ask questions, they would be put in their place pronto with a
comment like "Do you think you know more about photography than the
FBI experts?"
And last but
> not least, how do you know Marina even took the first one beside's the
> fact she said she did?
>
Sam McClung
<snippage>
>I've made a small effort to see if the dies that were used to stamp
>the C2766 on the TSBD rifle match other Carcanos that were produced in
>the same factory that produced C2766. I haven't had much luck because
>the people who own Carcanos that were manufactured in that plant at
>about that time are uncooperative. Perhaps someone else can sweet
>talk the owners into producing photos of the serial numbers of their
>rifles for comparison with C2766.
seems most people are not cooperative as to any aspect of this case, afraid
of what may happen if they cooperate
we may have covered this before in the past but was there a MC 91/38 made
with serial number G2766? seems it might be easy to change into C2766, in
some of the photos the C even looks like a modified G
Walt
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
I don't know if there was a 91 /38 produced with the serial number
G2766. but if there was it would be highly unlikely that the
conspirators could find it among all of the hundreds of thousands of
Carcanos that were floating around.
Sam, I don't know if you're aware of the fact that the CIA provided
the Cuban "Freedom Fighters" with Mannlicher Carcanos ( there are
videos showing the Cubans training with Carcanos) The CIA bought
thousands of Carcanos and spare parts, and had fresh ammo made for
them. Among the spare parts would have been replacement barrels.
Replacement barrels had no serial number on them, they could be
stamped with the original serial number of the rifle or any number a
person wanted on that barrel. Hence it would have been a piece of
cake for the CIA to produce another model 91 /38 with the serial
number C2766.... Hell, they could have produced dozens of C2766's if
they had wanted to.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about the murder of JFK and
since the government lied and covered up the truth we are left with a
lot of speculation about the case.... but if there is one thing that
I'm certain of it's the fact that the rifle in Oswald's hands in CE
133A is NOT the rifle that was found in the TSBD.
Gil Jesus
>.... but if there is one thing that
> I'm certain of it's the fact that the rifle in Oswald's hands in CE
> 133A is NOT the rifle that was found in the TSBD.-
AMEN
http://pictures.aol.com/galleries/gjjmail/41602cXrkH0*ic1Lb0imwIK1LwOzgYzfZIWSv4xQp5Fd3Ig=/large/
curtjester1
he has about 25 pages of BYP, and at least 8 full pages. There's
nothing in your technical avenue but I thought you might like to look
at it someday since you are already deep into this stuff. Some of
the highlights while I turned the page, were Marina's saying she had
two photos and burned one on the 23rd, then reversed herself and said
she took one. Marguerite and her couldn't even get the burning right
as one said burned at the hotel, and the other said at the Paine's.
There was the guy who drove 'Oswald' to the TSBD during mid-morning
hours (right after the 'Oswald' leaving the Dobb's house with another
incident), and he pulled out a version of a BYP and it was with a
sling (only sling mentioned with Armstrong) and said incriminating-Oz-
type-of-stuff. That's the incident where he did have a 4 to 4 1/2
foot package and said it was curtain rods....two days prior to the
assassination. Then he had versions of 5 BYP and their
discoveries....and the one with DeM didn't match any of LHO's or
Marina's handwriting in 1967. There was the Hester's who processed
BYP's for the FBI on the day of the assassination in Oak Cliff.
There also was some discovery at the Neely place where cutout's were
found with a DPD officer in the picture, and then there was the 1991
opening of the DPD files with five discoveries of BYP. That's what I
can remember, and there's a lot of pages I didn't turn to.
CJ
Sam McClung
http://www.pimall.com/nais/news/images/Ghost.gif
and the referring page
http://www.pimall.com/nais/news/backyard.html
was photography one of roscoe white's duties at dpd?
Walt
> here's what appears to be a cutout used to make a fake backyard photohttp://www.pimall.com/nais/news/images/Ghost.gif
Sam..... The best article I ever read on the Back Yard Photos was
written by a Dr Brown for the Fourth Decade.
Perhaps that article is available on line at Lancer. Dr Brown really
did an excellent job of exposing the fakery in the photos. In my
opinion all other efforts pale in comparison.
>
> and the referring pagehttp://www.pimall.com/nais/news/backyard.html
Walt
> On 17 Sep, 21:33, "Sam McClung" <mccl...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > here's what appears to be a cutout used to make a fake backyard photohttp://www.pimall.com/nais/news/images/Ghost.gif
>
Sam..... The best article I ever read on the Back Yard Photos was
written by a Dr Brown for the Fourth Decade.
Perhaps that article is available on line at Lancer. Dr Brown really
did an excellent job of exposing the fakery in the photos. In my
opinion all other efforts pale in comparison.
Sam, I found the article that was written by John J Johnson (not Dr
brown) for the Fourth Decade.
I hope you will go to JFK Lancer and read the Fourth Decade
article.
The title of the article is: Bobby Brown and Oswald's Ghost.
The article is in The Fourth Decade--- Vol.5 --number 1 November
1997.
The author is John J. Johnson---- 573 Hillsborough Rd.--- Bele Meade.
NJ
>
>
>
>
>
> > and the referring pagehttp://www.pimall.com/nais/news/backyard.html
>
> > was photography one of roscoe white's duties at dpd?- Hide quoted text -
Sam McClung
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:7e9a51c6-ed64-4ef1...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Sam McClung
news:7e9a51c6-ed64-4ef1...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>brown) for the Fourth Decade.
>I hope you will go to JFK Lancer and read the Fourth Decade
>article.
>The title of the article is: Bobby Brown and Oswald's Ghost.
>The article is in The Fourth Decade--- Vol.5 --number 1 November
>1997.
>The author is John J. Johnson---- 573 Hillsborough Rd.--- Bele Meade.
>NJ
Bobby Brown's chin in the backyard photo with him in it kind of looks like
the chin Oswald's head was cropped onto in 133-a, 133-b, and 133-c.
robcap...@netscape.com
> here's what appears to be a cutout used to make a fake backyard photohttp://www.pimall.com/nais/news/images/Ghost.gif
>
>
> was photography one of roscoe white's duties at dpd?
From time to time, yes, he also had extensive photographic experience
with the CIA, and may have still been in the CIA at this time. The
lead detectives on the RFK case were CIA working for the LAPD. Some
researchers say it is White's body in the pictures, but I don't know
this for sure.
Walt
wrote:
I doubt that anybody will listen to your ramblings, Rob..... You've
pretty well destroyed your credibility.
robcap...@netscape.com
You are the only one who has destroyed his credibility as you have
shown you represent the LNers in a "CT" manner. You have failed to
prove anything you claim and that squarely puts you in their camp.
They even stand up for. LOL!!!!
tomnln
Respectfull Reminder;
Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
Walt
> Respectfull Reminder;
>
> Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
versions of the Carcano. You think I don't know what I'm talkin about
anyway so I'm not going to waste my time doing your research. However
for those readers who are willing to listen ....Here's what Richard
Hobbs wrote on page 18 of his book "The Carcano". Refering to the
Model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle.
Quote..." The rifles were unchanged until late in 1940 serial number
ARXXX well into the double letter alphabet, when rifles appeared with
DUAL SLING SWIVELS, both side and bottom. Narrow on the side and wide
on the bottom"....Unquote
It's also a very simple matter to actually LOOK ... I said LOOK... at
the BOTTOM SLING SWIVELS on the model 91 /38 that is shown in Kleins
ad from the Frbruary issue of the American Rifleman. Just look what
you have on your website for verification that some Carcanos were
manufactured with DUAL SLING SWIVELS.
>
>
>
> > "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
> > sunlight, and would have been nearly invisible in a photo.- Hide quoted text -
robcap...@netscape.com
> On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Respectfull Reminder;
>
> > Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
>
> Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
> versions of the Carcano.
LOL!!! Tom, you may want to remember this the next time the lazy Walt
ask you to post something for him. I have seen him to this a bunch
of times, but now he calls someone else lazy.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
tomnln
Or, I'll Blow your Lying Ass outta the water.
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:a9e779e6-ec63-4ed7...@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> Respectfull Reminder;
>
> Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
versions of the Carcano. You think I don't know what I'm talkin about
anyway so I'm not going to waste my time doing your research. However
for those readers who are willing to listen ....Here's what Richard
Hobbs wrote on page 18 of his book "The Carcano". Refering to the
Model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle.
Quote..." The rifles were unchanged until late in 1940 serial number
ARXXX well into the double letter alphabet, when rifles appeared with
DUAL SLING SWIVELS, both side and bottom. Narrow on the side and wide
on the bottom"....Unquote
It's also a very simple matter to actually LOOK ... I said LOOK... at
the BOTTOM SLING SWIVELS on the model 91 /38 that is shown in Kleins
ad from the Frbruary issue of the American Rifleman. Just look what
you have on your website for verification that some Carcanos were
manufactured with DUAL SLING SWIVELS.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do NOT have a M C with "dual sling mounts on my website Rinky-Dink.
I have the back yard photo (CE-133-a) showing bottom sling mount that "Jerry
McCleer" discovered.
I have CE-139 with Oblong Side mounts from the WCR.
I started this exchange with "Respectfull Reminder".
All you had to do was post a photo of a M C With Dual mounts.
Now, show a M C with BOTH sling mounts or, Bury your head in McAdams' Ass.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt
> Be careful of the "insults" Walt! ! ! ! !
>
> Or, I'll Blow your Lying Ass outta the water.
Oh go to hell ya adolescent old nut.......
I've seen yer juvenile antics enough that I'm sick of them.
Telling you to get off yer ass isn't an insult....... and I won't
respond further to this nonsense. If you want to post juvenile
insults....be my guest.....but remember who will damaged most by your
silly posts.
>
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> news:a9e779e6-ec63-4ed7...@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Respectfull Reminder;
>
> > Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
>
> Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
> versions of the Carcano. You think I don't know what I'm talkin about
> anyway so I'm not going to waste my time doing your research. However
> for those readers who are willing to listen ....Here's what Richard
> Hobbs wrote on page 18 of his book "The Carcano". Refering to the
> Model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle.
>
> Quote..." The rifles were unchanged until late in 1940 serial number
> ARXXX well into the double letter alphabet, when rifles appeared with
> DUAL SLING SWIVELS, both side and bottom. Narrow on the side and wide
> on the bottom"....Unquote
>
> It's also a very simple matter to actually LOOK ... I said LOOK... at
> the BOTTOM SLING SWIVELS on the model 91 /38 that is shown in Kleins
> ad from the Frbruary issue of the American Rifleman. Just look what
> you have on your website for verification that some Carcanos were
> manufactured with DUAL SLING SWIVELS.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do NOT have a M C with "dual sling mounts on my website Rinky-Dink.
>
> I have the back yard photo (CE-133-a) showing bottom sling mount that "Jerry
> McCleer" discovered.
> I have CE-139 with Oblong Side mounts from the WCR.
>
> I started this exchange with "Respectfull Reminder".
>
> All you had to do was post a photo of a M C With Dual mounts.
>
> Now, show a M C with BOTH sling mounts or, Bury your head in McAdams' Ass.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
tomnln
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:917ce4ee-eba0-4848...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 19, 4:13 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Respectfull Reminder;
>
> > Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
>
> Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
> versions of the Carcano.
LOL!!! Tom, you may want to remember this the next time the lazy Walt
ask you to post something for him. I have seen him to this a bunch
of times, but now he calls someone else lazy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CORRECT;
Walt has been asking me for BOTH, Evidence and Testimony for YEARS.
Apparently he doesn't have his own set of the 26 volumes.
Walt used to be a regular in my Live /Audio Chat Room years ago.
Walt is always "Speculating" and. MAKING wild CLAIMS, Repeatedly trying to
get me to Speculate.
When I Refused to Speculate Walt left the chat room.
All I asked Walt to do was produce a photo of an M C rifle with BOTH "Round
Bottom Sling Mounts AND Side Oblong Sling Mounts".
Looks like Walt was SPECULATING again.
Unless he was trying to make CT's look BAD! ! !
(kinda like Marsh)
Either he can produce a M C With BOTH sling mounts on it ORRRR, he CAN'T.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You think I don't know what I'm talkin about
> anyway so I'm not going to waste my time doing your research. However
> for those readers who are willing to listen ....Here's what Richard
> Hobbs wrote on page 18 of his book "The Carcano". Refering to the
> Model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle.
WHY not Walt?
I've done PLENTY of Your Research! ! !
Produce it or Retract it! ! !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt
> "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com> wrote in message
>
> news:917ce4ee-eba0-4848...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 19, 4:13 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > Respectfull Reminder;
>
> > > Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
>
> > Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
> > versions of the Carcano.
>
> LOL!!! Tom, you may want to remember this the next time the lazy Walt
> ask you to post something for him. I have seen him to this a bunch
> of times, but now he calls someone else lazy.
>
> CORRECT;
>
> Walt has been asking me for BOTH, Evidence and Testimony for YEARS.
>
> Apparently he doesn't have his own set of the 26 volumes.
>
> Walt used to be a regular in my Live /Audio Chat Room years ago.
>
> Walt is always "Speculating" and. MAKING wild CLAIMS, Repeatedly trying to
> get me to Speculate.
>
> When I Refused to Speculate Walt left the chat room.
>
> All I asked Walt to do was produce a photo of an M C rifle with BOTH "Round
> Bottom Sling Mounts AND Side Oblong Sling Mounts".
>
> Looks like Walt was SPECULATING again.
>
> Unless he was trying to make CT's look BAD! ! !
> (kinda like Marsh)
>
> Either he can produce a M C With BOTH sling mounts on it ORRRR, he CAN'T.
>
> You think I don't know what I'm talkin about
>
> > anyway so I'm not going to waste my time doing your research. However
> > for those readers who are willing to listen ....Here's what Richard
> > Hobbs wrote on page 18 of his book "The Carcano". Refering to the
> > Model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle.
>
> WHY not Walt?
>
> I've done PLENTY of Your Research! ! !
>
> Produce it or Retract it! ! !
Sure..... Tom could you provide a link to the ad that appeared in the
February 1963 issue of The American Rifleman?
I know you've got it because I've seen it on your website.
Thank you.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt
>
> Or, I'll Blow your Lying Ass outta the water.
>
> On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Respectfull Reminder;
>
> > Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
I can only refer you to books written by experts on the Carcano. There
are dozens of them....Some of those books are merely books giving the
specifications of hundreds of militaty rifles. The authors are only
interested in giving the specifications of the rifles.
However..... since you want me to produce proof that the model 91 /38
was made with dual sling swivels, I'll simply tell you it ain't gonna
happen....because it's not germain to my claim that the rifle in CE
133A is NOT the rifle that was found in the TSBD. Here's why it's not
germain.....The BOTTOM sling swivel is clearly visible on the rifle in
CE 133A. It doesn't make any difference if you believe that it is a
dual sling version of a model 91 /38 it clearly has a BOTTOM sling
swivel and the TSBD rifle has a side swivel only. Therefore they are
two fifferent rifles. Even if you chose to believe that there was
only a single sling swivel on the bottom of the rifle in CE 133A the
rifles are still different. I've never heard of a Carcano with only
bottom mounted swivels but if that's what you want to believe, go
right ahead.
>
> Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
> versions of the Carcano. You think I don't know what I'm talkin about
> anyway so I'm not going to waste my time doing your research. However
> for those readers who are willing to listen ....Here's what Richard
> Hobbs wrote on page 18 of his book "The Carcano". Refering to the
> Model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano Short Rifle.
>
> Quote..." The rifles were unchanged until late in 1940 serial number
> ARXXX well into the double letter alphabet, when rifles appeared with
> DUAL SLING SWIVELS, both side and bottom. Narrow on the side and wide
> on the bottom"....Unquote
>
> It's also a very simple matter to actually LOOK ... I said LOOK... at
> the BOTTOM SLING SWIVELS on the model 91 /38 that is shown in Kleins
> ad from the Frbruary issue of the American Rifleman. Just look what
> you have on your website for verification that some Carcanos were
> manufactured with DUAL SLING SWIVELS.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I do NOT have a M C with "dual sling mounts on my website Rinky-Dink.
>
> I have the back yard photo (CE-133-a) showing bottom sling mount that "Jerry
> McCleer" discovered.
> I have CE-139 with Oblong Side mounts from the WCR.
>
> I started this exchange with "Respectfull Reminder".
>
> All you had to do was post a photo of a M C With Dual mounts.
>
> Now, show a M C with BOTH sling mounts or, Bury your head in McAdams' Ass.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
tomnln
Walt wrote;
Sure..... Tom could you provide a link to the ad that appeared in the
February 1963 issue of The American Rifleman?
I know you've got it because I've seen it on your website.
Thank you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I write;
Do your own research Walt.
I asked you a "Respectfull" question & you respond with an Insult! ! !
There is NO photo on my website showing BOTH bottom/side sling mounts on the
same M C 91/38 rifle.
Are you gonna produce the photo or, NOT?
Sam McClung
http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/database/m91_38.html
c2766 is listed as side sling swivel
those with bottom only swivels are moschettos
tomnln
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You claimed either/both CE-139/CE-133-a has Round bottom swivels/Oblong side
swivels.
Either produce or Retract.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
On 19 Sep, 18:30, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> Be careful of the "insults" Walt! ! ! ! !
>
> Or, I'll Blow your Lying Ass outta the water.
Walt wrote;
Oh go to hell ya adolescent old nut.......
I've seen yer juvenile antics enough that I'm sick of them.
Telling you to get off yer ass isn't an insult....... and I won't
respond further to this nonsense. If you want to post juvenile
insults....be my guest.....but remember who will damaged most by your
silly posts.
I write;
Just like any LN'r who has No answers to evidence/testimony! ! !
You turn to insults. (you Suck at it too)
Then you pull a LN'r & just refuse to produce & RUN.
You've been kissin my ass for Years for evidence/testimony.
Produce a photo of a M C 91/38 with Bottom AND side sling mounts or RUN.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tims...@gmail.com
Hi Walt,
Is this what you're after?:
http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
First time I've ever seen tomnln unwilling to connect to his website.
Say, is that ol' tomnln depicted on the webpage, with his back to the
camera? The fellow supposedly about the height of Oswald? Guess only
ol' tomnln can tell us, LOL!
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
Walt
Thank you.... Kinda strange that Tom didn't want to provide the
link......He's always been very quick to show off his site.
Do you suppose there is something in the enlarged picture of the rifle
from the Klein ad that Tom didn't want to know.
>
> http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
>
> First time I've ever seen tomnln unwilling to connect to his website.
>
> Say, is that ol' tomnln depicted on the webpage, with his back to the
> camera? The fellow supposedly about the height of Oswald? Guess only
> ol' tomnln can tell us, LOL!
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia
> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> On Sep 20, 1:16 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 19 Sep, 22:10, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:917ce4ee-eba0-4848...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Sep 19, 4:13 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > Respectfull Reminder;
>
> > > > > Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
>
> > > > Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the various
> > > > versions of the Carcano.
>
> > > LOL!!! Tom, you may want to remember this the next time the lazy Walt
> > > ask you to post something for him. I have seen him to this a bunch
> > > of times, but now he calls someone else lazy.
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tomnln
Thank you.... Kinda strange that Tom didn't want to provide the
link......He's always been very quick to show off his site.
Do you suppose there is something in the enlarged picture of the rifle
from the Klein ad that Tom didn't want to know.
It does NOT show "Dual sling Mounts" like you Claimed Walt;
Walt
> "Walt" <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote in message
>
> On 20 Sep, 01:54, timst...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > TOP POST
>
> > Hi Walt,
>
> > Is this what you're after?:
>
> Thank you.... Kinda strange that Tom didn't want to provide the
> link......He's always been very quick to show off his site.
>
> Do you suppose there is something in the enlarged picture of the rifle
> from the Klein ad that Tom didn't want to know.
>
> It does NOT show "Dual sling Mounts" like you Claimed Walt;
Really?.... The camera couldn't "see" the back side of the rifle to
record the dual sling swivels??
What the hell have you been smokin?? The photo DOES show the bottom
sling swivel on that rifle, and since there never was a Carcano with
bottom swivels only.....COMMONSENSE would dictate that the rifle is a
DUAL swivel version of a Model 91/38 Short Rifle....
Have you no commonsense??
>
>
>
> >http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
>
> > First time I've ever seen tomnln unwilling to connect to his website.
>
> > Say, is that ol' tomnln depicted on the webpage, with his back to the
> > camera? The fellow supposedly about the height of Oswald? Guess only
> > ol' tomnln can tell us, LOL!
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Tim Brennan
> > Sydney, Australia
> > *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
>
> > On Sep 20, 1:16 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > On 19 Sep, 22:10, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:917ce4ee-eba0-4848...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > > > On Sep 19, 4:13 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > On 19 Sep, 13:36, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Respectfull Reminder;
>
> > > > > > Please show us "DUAL " sling mounts on a 91/38 Manlicher-Carcano?
>
> > > > > Get off yer lazy ass and go to the library and read about the
> > > > > various
> > > > > versions of the Carcano.
>
> > > > LOL!!! Tom, you may want to remember this the next time the lazy Walt
> > > > ask you to post something for him. I have seen him to this a bunch
> > > > of times, but now he calls someone else lazy.
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Caelin
> Did DPD put Oil Of Olay on the rifle sling, making it change from a side
> mount sling to a younger looking bottom mount sling?
>
> "OIL OF OLAY~~IT CAN HELP YOU LOOK YOUNGER TOO!"
Jesus Christ, can't you conspiracy fucktards give it a rest?