The Murder Of J.D. Tippit
David Von Pein
22, 1963, the only possible reasonable conclusion to reach with
respect to the $64,000 question of "WHO DID IT?", given the evidence
that exists in the case, is the following conclusion:
LEE HARVEY OSWALD MURDERED OFFICER TIPPIT.
==============================================
Regarding the bullets and the bullet shells (cartridge cases):
It's quite possible that there was a fifth (missed) shot fired by Lee
Oswald at the Tippit murder scene on Tenth Street in Oak Cliff/Dallas
on 11/22/63 -- with one of the five bullets never being recovered by
anyone (be it the police or anyone else).
Witness Ted Callaway always maintained he heard FIVE shots fired, not
just four. Within Callaway's 1964 Warren Commission testimony, we find
this.....
MR. CALLAWAY -- "I heard what sounded to me like five pistol shots."
MR. BALL -- "Five pistol shots?"
MR. CALLAWAY -- "Five shots; yes, sir."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/callaway1.htm
~~~~~~~~
Other witnesses also said that the number of shots they heard could
possibly have exceeded four, including Warren Reynolds.....
MR. LIEBELER -- "How many shots did you hear?"
MR. REYNOLDS -- "I really have no idea, to be honest with you. I would
say four or five or six. I just would have no idea. I heard one, and
then I heard a succession of some more."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/reynolds.htm
~~~~~~~~
To be fair here, there were several witnesses who only heard three
gunshots being fired at Officer Tippit, which we know is wrong, based
on the fact that four bullets were recovered from Tippit's body after
the shooting. So earwitness testimony like this must always be taken
with a large grain of salt.
But in addition to the earwitness accounts of the shooting, it's also
possible that the father-in-law of Tippit witness Barbara Davis might
have picked up a fifth bullet shell from the front or side yard of the
Davis property sometime after the shooting on November 22, 1963.
On Page #272 of Dale Myers' 1998 authoritative book on the Tippit
murder ("With Malice"), the following passage can be found:
"In 1996, eyewitness Barbara J. Davis mentioned that she found a shell
like those she and Virginia {Davis} recovered the day of the {Tippit}
murder among the possessions of her father-in-law, Louis Davis.
'He was staying with Virginia at the time of the shooting,' Barbara
remembered. 'A short time after the murder, he mentioned to my husband
that he had found a shell. But, he never showed it to me and I didn't
pay too much attention, because he was kind of a peddler, a junk man,
you know.'
Virginia Davis confirmed the story, adding that the elder Davis had
found the shell the day of the shooting, but wanted to hang on to it
for a 'keepsake'."
~~~~~~~~
Also -- The pro-conspiracy argument that there must have been more
than one gun involved in J.D. Tippit's murder because multiple types
of ammunition were recovered from Tippit's body is simply a very weak
argument -- because such an argument totally ignores the fact that Lee
Harvey Oswald's gun, when he was arrested, was loaded with BOTH types
of bullets that were dug out of Officer Tippit's body.*
* = And if that little tidbit of info isn't an additional decent-sized
reason to point an accusing finger of guilt at Lee Harvey Oswald with
respect to Tippit's murder, then I don't know what would be. And this
would be apart from the known fact that the four bullet shells that
were found in the Davis' yard were conclusively linked to Oswald's
revolver (a gun that Oswald had ON HIM when arrested inside the Texas
Theater).
Just consider the following four items for a moment and then add them
up (with a dose of common sense sprinkled in as well):
1.) Multiple bullet shells found near the Tippit murder scene were
traced to Oswald's gun (a gun Oswald himself was carrying just 35
minutes after the murder of Officer Tippit).
2.) The slugs pulled from Officer Tippit's body were a COMBINATION of
Winchester-Western bullets and Remington-Peters bullets.
3.) The spent cartridge cases found at the Tippit murder scene were a
COMBINATION of Winchester-Western cartridge cases and Remington-Peters
cartridge cases.
4.) The six unfired bullets found in Lee Harvey Oswald's gun (which he
was carrying and attempting to use on the arresting police officers
when he was apprehended in the theater) were a COMBINATION of
Winchester-Western bullets and Remington-Peters bullets (exactly three
of each type).
~~~~~~~~
I wonder if anyone can provide the odds of the above four things
occurring and yet also having Lee Oswald, somehow, remaining
completely innocent of killing Officer J.D. Tippit?
Do conspiracy believers look upon the "Combination of Winchester and
Remington" bullet evidence as yet another in an amazing series of
"coincidences" that links an innocent "Patsy" named Oswald to J.D.
Tippit's murder?
Or were those plotters who were supposedly framing Oswald so good that
they knew to shoot Tippit with the exact same types of ammunition that
Oswald just happened to have in his gun on the afternoon of 11/22/63?
Plus -- Joseph D. Nicol, who was one of nine ballistics experts to
examine the bullets taken from Tippit's body, said that one of the
four bullets inside Tippit could, indeed, be conclusively linked to
Oswald's gun "to the exclusion".....
MR. EISENBERG -- "Mr. Nicol, I hand you a group of four bullets marked
Commission Exhibits 602, 603, 604, and 605, which I state for the
record were recovered from the body of Officer Tippit, and a group of
two bullets marked Commission Exhibit 606, which I state for the
record were fired by the FBI through the revolver, Commission Exhibit
143."
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0148b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_0269a.jpg
MR. EISENBERG -- "Did you examine Exhibits 602 through 605 to
determine whether they have been fired from the same weapon as fired
606?"
MR. NICOL -- "Yes, I did."
MR. EISENBERG -- "What was your conclusion?"
MR. NICOL -- "Due to mutilation, I was not able to determine whether
605, 604, and 602 were fired in the same weapon. There were similarity
of class characteristics--that is to say, there is nothing evident
that would exclude the weapon. However, due to mutilation and apparent
variance between the size of the barrel and the size of the
projectile, the reproduction of individual characteristics was not
good, and therefore I was unable to arrive at a conclusion beyond that
of saying that the few lines that were found would indicate a modest
possibility. But I would not by any means say that I could be
positive. However, on specimen 602--I'm sorry--603, which I have
designated as Q-502, I found sufficient individual characteristics to
lead me to the conclusion that that projectile was fired in the same
weapon that fired the projectiles in 606."
MR. EISENBERG -- "That is to the exclusion of all other weapons?"
MR. NICOL -- "Yes, sir."
MR. EISENBERG -- "By the way, on the cartridge cases, that was also to
the exclusion of all other weapons?"
MR. NICOL -- "Correct."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/nicol.htm
~~~~~~~~
Another grain of salt is required, however, when talking about Mr.
Nicol's testimony re. the Tippit bullets, since the other eight
experts who looked at the bullets did not agree with Nicol with
respect to his "to the exclusion" conclusion.
But the bullet shells found at 10th & Patton WERE positively tied to
Lee Oswald's .38 revolver beyond any and all doubt (even if CTers want
to disregard the two "Poe" shells). The other two shells have an
undeniably-clear chain of custody, even per most conspiracy theorists,
who love to argue about the legitimacy of the Poe shells.
And the above arguments in favor of Oswald's guilt don't even begin to
touch on some of the VERY BEST evidence in the whole case that says
Oswald is guilty -- that being the multiple witnesses who positively
identified Lee Harvey Oswald as Officer Tippit's lone killer.
When you add that last point into the mix, in addition to the four
ballistics-related points mentioned above, there is simply NO possible
way in this world that Lee Harvey Oswald could be innocent of
murdering Patrolman J.D. Tippit on November the 22nd, 1963. None!
David Von Pein
June 2005
April 2006
March 2007
Papa Andy
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_...
you never address whether conspiracy was involved here
A
David Von Pein
>>> "You never address whether conspiracy was involved here." <<<
Only a person who desperately WANTS a "conspiracy" in the Tippit
murder would conclude such a thing. The actual evidence certainly
doesn't support such a notion; that's for sure.
One man.
One gun.
One murderer named Oswald.
Nothing even remotely suggests otherwise (once the sum total of all
the evidence and witness observations is assessed and weighed).
tomnln
I DO>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ae2ef1f5-ec81-40b0...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Those official records Prove you WRONG.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3ab57e32-61e9-466d...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
cdddraftsman
> (Snipped)
When we need a 3rd grade educated opinion will ask your school
teacher
Rossley , in the mean time try to answer for these crimes you've
committed :
What you do is high on the list of what conspiracists do to create a
mystery . You don't put the testimony into it's proper context .
Simple logic should tell you that if the USG was going to kill it's
own leader they never would of done it in such a convoluted way that
defies even how the Apple Dumpling gang would of gone about it .
They would of wacked em upside his silly head at love field when he
himself went into a unscreened crowd against the advice of the SS .
How bright a plan is it to frame a patsy that is supposed to be
shooting from behind
JFK by placing a shooter in front of JFK in front of 500 witnesses
that are taking motion pictures and snapshots . Firing at the worse
angle 3 O'Clock position with a sea of cars blocking his egress and
Lee Bowers sitting in a RR tower overloking the backk of the grassy
knoll ? Hmmmm ? Not too bright .
Go right on down the list and you'll see signs of constructs and
hoax's and flawed reasoning and context that was not there when the
event originally took place that explains your confusion if your
willing to think through the problem , but your not yet willing ,
your
mindset is contaminated by conspiracy thinking that has destroyed
your
sense of skeptical thinking .
Remember rule number one is that because where talking about humans
here , the sure fire way of knowing that a conspiracy existed is when
their is a absence of all this proported mysterious documentation
that
proves conspiracy and not the other way around . Catch my drift ? If
the USG was determined to hide this they wouldn't of left so many
obvious clues that pointed to conspiracy .
This proves they were honest in their approach and didn't hide
anything . The anomolys that you've found that you think are
conspiratorial are the workings of the inner mind of man that is what
made us survive over all other creatures . A good healthy sense of
paranoia along with fight or flight . Believe it or not a 100 years
of
study on the subject has concluded that a normal person has his
memory
changed by the 1st or 2nd day after witnessing a event , just by
talking to other people or reading or hearing conversation about what
they witnessed .
Whatyou do is likened to what you expect out of a recording machine .
Man is not a made like a recording machine . He is not designed to
accurately record events as they took place , even when the initial
event is seen accurately & that is why police will get 12 different
versions of a accident by12 different bystanders ,
Example : One man finds the rifle and says mistakenly "it's a
Mauser" ? What did conspiracsts do when all other Law enforcement
people repeated the mistake ? They turned a MC Rifle into a Mauser &
thats how you get two of everything in this case . Flawed reasoning .
There wasn't even one whole LHO when they dug him up , his head was
detached from his bod ! :-) which is more than I can say for you ,
with your brain smaller than JFK's after fixation .
I don't know what *They* taught you in school but it certainly isn't
how to get smart , they meant S M A R T N O T F A R T .
I have a whole lifetime experience of studying this phenom. which I
have dubbed The Great JFK Assassination Conspiracy Farting Hoax on
America . The sad fact of the matter whether anyone likes it or not ,
the WCR is a solid piece of investigation with minor flaws that don't
effect the overall conclusions . Even with modern day computers the
results are the same .
Ever wonder why CTer's don't do a computer analysis ? The same reason
they never bought a MC Rifle & did experiments . They knew the closer
they got to reality the quicker they would be exposed as charlitons &
con-artists . :-( Sad face was the day America listened to Mark Lane
as he turned a man smoking a cigarette into a plot to overthrow the
Government of the United States & took advantage of the publics
disbelief that JFK's death was a senseless act of violence & had no
broader meaning .
IOW your a unredeemable asshole and that's meant as a compliment .
You don't really want to know what I really think about you as a
black
plague .
tl
tomnln
"cdddraftsman" <cdddra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5f1d180a-afa7-4d7a...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
LOWERY;
You never spent 5 minutes studying evidence/testimony.
(as evidenced by your Refusal to address it)
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
robcap...@netscape.com
> 22, 1963, the only possible reasonable conclusion to reach with
> respect to the $64,000 question of "WHO DID IT?", given the evidence
> that exists in the case, is the following conclusion:
>
> LEE HARVEY OSWALD MURDERED OFFICER TIPPIT.
What was his motive for doing this?
> ==============================================
>
> Regarding the bullets and the bullet shells (cartridge cases):
>
> It's quite possible that there was a fifth (missed) shot fired by Lee
> Oswald at the Tippit murder scene on Tenth Street in Oak Cliff/Dallas
> on 11/22/63 -- with one of the five bullets never being recovered by
> anyone (be it the police or anyone else).
I haven't heard this before, who beside this witness can you cite?
>
> Witness Ted Callaway always maintained he heard FIVE shots fired, not
> just four. Within Callaway's 1964 Warren Commission testimony, we find
> this.....
>
> MR. CALLAWAY -- "I heard what sounded to me like five pistol shots."
>
> MR. BALL -- "Five pistol shots?"
>
> MR. CALLAWAY -- "Five shots; yes, sir."
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/callaway1.htm
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> Other witnesses also said that the number of shots they heard could
> possibly have exceeded four, including Warren Reynolds.....
>
> MR. LIEBELER -- "How many shots did you hear?"
>
> MR. REYNOLDS -- "I really have no idea, to be honest with you. I would
> say four or five or six. I just would have no idea. I heard one, and
> then I heard a succession of some more."
Boy, this is a ringing endorsement for your cause. Sounds like he
really didn't know how many shots were fired.
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/reynolds.htm
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> To be fair here, there were several witnesses who only heard three
> gunshots being fired at Officer Tippit, which we know is wrong, based
> on the fact that four bullets were recovered from Tippit's body after
> the shooting. So earwitness testimony like this must always be taken
> with a large grain of salt.
>
> But in addition to the earwitness accounts of the shooting, it's also
> possible that the father-in-law of Tippit witness Barbara Davis might
> have picked up a fifth bullet shell from the front or side yard of the
> Davis property sometime after the shooting on November 22, 1963.
>
> On Page #272 of Dale Myers' 1998 authoritative book on the Tippit
> murder ("With Malice"), the following passage can be found:
>
> "In 1996, eyewitness Barbara J. Davis mentioned that she found a shell
> like those she and Virginia {Davis} recovered the day of the {Tippit}
> murder among the possessions of her father-in-law, Louis Davis.
>
> 'He was staying with Virginia at the time of the shooting,' Barbara
> remembered. 'A short time after the murder, he mentioned to my husband
> that he had found a shell. But, he never showed it to me and I didn't
> pay too much attention, because he was kind of a peddler, a junk man,
> you know.'
>
> Virginia Davis confirmed the story, adding that the elder Davis had
> found the shell the day of the shooting, but wanted to hang on to it
> for a 'keepsake'."
What kind of shell was it? Automatic or revolver. Standard .38 or a
special .38?
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> Also -- The pro-conspiracy argument that there must have been more
> than one gun involved in J.D. Tippit's murder because multiple types
> of ammunition were recovered from Tippit's body is simply a very weak
> argument -- because such an argument totally ignores the fact that Lee
> Harvey Oswald's gun, when he was arrested, was loaded with BOTH types
> of bullets that were dug out of Officer Tippit's body.*
That may be, but the extracted bullets did not match the gun LHO had
when he was arrested, how do you explain that?
>
> * = And if that little tidbit of info isn't an additional decent-sized
> reason to point an accusing finger of guilt at Lee Harvey Oswald with
> respect to Tippit's murder, then I don't know what would be. And this
> would be apart from the known fact that the four bullet shells that
> were found in the Davis' yard were conclusively linked to Oswald's
> revolver (a gun that Oswald had ON HIM when arrested inside the Texas
> Theater).
>
> Just consider the following four items for a moment and then add them
> up (with a dose of common sense sprinkled in as well):
>
> 1.) Multiple bullet shells found near the Tippit murder scene were
> traced to Oswald's gun (a gun Oswald himself was carrying just 35
> minutes after the murder of Officer Tippit).
No they weren't. Automatic shells were found. Also, the .38 shells in
the National Archives do not match the revolver LHO had when he was
arrested either, how do you explain this?
>
> 2.) The slugs pulled from Officer Tippit's body were a COMBINATION of
> Winchester-Western bullets and Remington-Peters bullets.
Yes they were, but not the right combo. They took two Remingtons and
two Winchesters from JDT, but the shells consisted of three
Winchesters and one Remington. How do you explain this?
>
> 3.) The spent cartridge cases found at the Tippit murder scene were a
> COMBINATION of Winchester-Western cartridge cases and Remington-Peters
> cartridge cases.
Yes, they were. They were from an automatic pistol according to the
police on the scene. Answer this for me, if LHO shot JDT with a
revolver why did he leave incrimating evidence like "spent shells"
when he could have taken them with him?
>
> 4.) The six unfired bullets found in Lee Harvey Oswald's gun (which he
> was carrying and attempting to use on the arresting police officers
> when he was apprehended in the theater) were a COMBINATION of
> Winchester-Western bullets and Remington-Peters bullets (exactly three
> of each type).
So? Do you have proof his gun had been fired? Do you have a match
between his gun and the bullets in JDT? No.
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> I wonder if anyone can provide the odds of the above four things
> occurring and yet also having Lee Oswald, somehow, remaining
> completely innocent of killing Officer J.D. Tippit?
I think the odds are great do to the real killer using a combination
of those types of ammo in his automatic pistol, whoever he was. You
are not mentioning that the prints on JDT's car, taken from where
witnesses said the killer leaned, did not match LHO, how come?
>
> Do conspiracy believers look upon the "Combination of Winchester and
> Remington" bullet evidence as yet another in an amazing series of
> "coincidences" that links an innocent "Patsy" named Oswald to J.D.
> Tippit's murder?
Don't have to since the bullets and shells did not match LHO's style
of gun.
>
> Or were those plotters who were supposedly framing Oswald so good that
> they knew to shoot Tippit with the exact same types of ammunition that
> Oswald just happened to have in his gun on the afternoon of 11/22/63?
You are assuming again that the shells found at the scene are the same
ones found, right? I think this has been explained as Detective Poe
initialed two shells and yet his initials are nowhere to be found on
the final evidence. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the bullets in the
National Archives don't match LHO's gun either.
>
> Plus -- Joseph D. Nicol, who was one of nine ballistics experts to
> examine the bullets taken from Tippit's body, said that one of the
> four bullets inside Tippit could, indeed, be conclusively linked to
> Oswald's gun "to the exclusion".....
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "Mr. Nicol, I hand you a group of four bullets marked
> Commission Exhibits 602, 603, 604, and 605, which I state for the
> record were recovered from the body of Officer Tippit, and a group of
> two bullets marked Commission Exhibit 606, which I state for the
> record were fired by the FBI through the revolver, Commission Exhibit
> 143."
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_...
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "Did you examine Exhibits 602 through 605 to
> determine whether they have been fired from the same weapon as fired
> 606?"
>
> MR. NICOL -- "Yes, I did."
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "What was your conclusion?"
>
> MR. NICOL -- "Due to mutilation, I was not able to determine whether
> 605, 604, and 602 were fired in the same weapon. There were similarity
> of class characteristics--that is to say, there is nothing evident
> that would exclude the weapon. However, due to mutilation and apparent
> variance between the size of the barrel and the size of the
> projectile, the reproduction of individual characteristics was not
> good, and therefore I was unable to arrive at a conclusion beyond that
> of saying that the few lines that were found would indicate a modest
> possibility. But I would not by any means say that I could be
> positive. However, on specimen 602--I'm sorry--603, which I have
> designated as Q-502, I found sufficient individual characteristics to
> lead me to the conclusion that that projectile was fired in the same
> weapon that fired the projectiles in 606."
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "That is to the exclusion of all other weapons?"
>
> MR. NICOL -- "Yes, sir."
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "By the way, on the cartridge cases, that was also to
> the exclusion of all other weapons?"
>
> MR. NICOL -- "Correct."
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/nicol.htm
Well the FBI disagreed with Mr. Nicol as they found two things out
when testing the gun. They couldn't link Oswald's gun with the bullets
taken out of JDT because first, the bullets were too mutilated;
second, the barrel of the weapon had--apparently before Oswald bought
it--been altered, and test-firing the revolver showed that consecutive
bullets fired from the revolver could not be identified as having been
fired from that revolver. Even accepting that Oswald owned and
possessed the weapon in question, and that the shells tested by the
FBI had been fired from that weapon, therefore, the ballistics
evidence is questionable.
>
> ~~~~~~~~
>
> Another grain of salt is required, however, when talking about Mr.
> Nicol's testimony re. the Tippit bullets, since the other eight
> experts who looked at the bullets did not agree with Nicol with
> respect to his "to the exclusion" conclusion.
At least you are being fair.
>
> But the bullet shells found at 10th & Patton WERE positively tied to
> Lee Oswald's .38 revolver beyond any and all doubt (even if CTers want
> to disregard the two "Poe" shells). The other two shells have an
> undeniably-clear chain of custody, even per most conspiracy theorists,
> who love to argue about the legitimacy of the Poe shells.
But they simply don't match LHO's gun. His gun had work done
(rechambered) to it and required a fatter shell case, the ones found
did not have this characteristic. They could be from his gun.
>
> And the above arguments in favor of Oswald's guilt don't even begin to
> touch on some of the VERY BEST evidence in the whole case that says
> Oswald is guilty -- that being the multiple witnesses who positively
> identified Lee Harvey Oswald as Officer Tippit's lone killer.
Only one person did this , Helen Markham, Helen Markham, made numerous
demonstrably erroneous or false statements and was, as Meagher drily
observes, "not a person in whom reasonable men would place implicit
trust".
>
> When you add that last point into the mix, in addition to the four
> ballistics-related points mentioned above, there is simply NO possible
> way in this world that Lee Harvey Oswald could be innocent of
> murdering Patrolman J.D. Tippit on November the 22nd, 1963. None!
Once again you reach a faulty conclusion because you choose to look at
faulty evidence. LHO did not shoot JDT.
Another story that Anthony Summers uncovered in "Conspiracy" is
interesting, whether it is true or not I don't know. JDT was having
an affair with the blond waitress at Austin's Barbeque Drive-in, this
was confirmed by a Dallas citizen, Larry Harris, and his friend in law
enforcement Larry Holmes. The waitress was married also and she told
Harris and Holmes she had an affair for two years with JDT. The
waitress's estranged husband said JDT's death lead to their
reconciliation as they both went to his funeral (nice of him
considering JDT was sleeping with his wife) and this upset her since
she was pregnant. She would give birth 7 months later, but she would
claim it was her husband's and the child was raised accordingly.
They stayed together until 1968 and then would divorce. According to
one source these men found, Tippit's wife visited a neighbor on
11/22/63 in tears, because "on that morning Officer Tippit had told
her he wanted a divorce to marry someone else...By the mistress'
account, her husband - though a drinker and a womanizer himself - had
been greatly upset by her affair with Tippit. Several times he had
followed her and Tippit late at night, trailing him in his car". Food
for thought. The wife found out the morning of the day Tippit dies
about his affair and wanting a divorce.
curtjester1
CJ
On 28 Nov, 19:32, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
wrote:
Walt
I'm not surprised that you would say:.. "The actual evidence certainly
doesn't support such a notion; that's for sure".
I'm sure it's very difficult to see anything very clearly, while you
have yer head up yer ass.
Walt
tomnln
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:a4c35343-0807-4f92...@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Walt
> >>> "The extracted bullets {from J.D. Tippit's body} did not match the gun LHO had when he was arrested, how do you explain that?" <<<
>
> The bullets were too mutilated, idiot. (Nicol did say 1 could be
> linked to Oz's gun, though.)
Von Pea Brain wrote:
The bullets were too mutilated, idiot. ( Nicol did say that 1 could
be linked to Oz's gun, though)
Von Pea Brain wrote:
"however, when talking about Mr. Nicol's testimony re. the Tippit
bullets, since the other eight
experts who looked at the bullets did not agree with Nicol with
respect to his "to the exclusion" conclusion. "
So DVP accepts the testimony of ONE "expert" that was called in by the
Warren Commission to refute the testimony of the FBI agents. FBI agent
Cunningham, a FBI firearms expert, testified that the .38 S&W revolver
was INCAPABLE of firing a bullet that could be positively
ballistically traced to that revolver. Cunningham had fired that S&W
revolver dozens of times under very carefully controlled lab
conditions, in an effort to retrieve just two bullets that would
ballistically match.
Cunningham testified that the pistol was incapable of producing any
bullets that could be traced to it.
Von pea Brain ignores the FBI experts, and accepts the testimony of
Nicol who was working with bullets that had not been fired in a lab.
Bullets that had been retrieved from Tippit's body, after they had
passed through heavy fabric, a pack of cigarettes, a brass uniform
button, and flesh and bone.
ROTFLMAO!!
Walt
>
> >>> "Automatic shells were found." <<<
>
> No, they weren't.
>
> No automatic shells are in the record. And furthermore, no automatic
> weapon could have been involved, because witnesses verify that Oswald
> (who was the ONLY person toting a gun on 10th St.) was emptying a
> REVOLVER....not an "automatic".
>
> Guess what? You're still batting triple-oh.
>
> >>> "Also, the .38 shells in the National Archives do not match the revolver LHO had when he was arrested either, how do you explain this?" <<<
>
> You're full of shit. The ONLY shells in evidence perfectly match
> Oswald's S&W revolver. No amount of kookcrap you utter will change
> that fact.
>
> >>> "They took two Remingtons and two Winchesters from JDT, but the shells consisted of three Winchesters and one Remington. How do you explain this?" <<<
>
> And what do you offer as an alternate solution to the "Oswald Did It"
> scenario here? -- You think that somebody with an automatic plugged
> Tippit with the exact type of bullet brands that Oswald happened to
> have in his gun on 11/22?
>
> And do you think the goofball plotters decided to plant some shells on
> Tenth Street, but they failed to get the mixture of shells aligned
> correctly with the bullets in Tippit?
>
> How did the plotters manage to "plant" the real Oswald on 10th St.,
> who was seen dumping shells in the Davises' yard?
>
> Let's hear your alternate CT scenario and see if it can stand on its
> own two legs.
>
> >>> "They were from an automatic pistol according to the police on the scene." <<<
>
> Not one policeman saw a single "automatic" shell. Not one.
>
> You know why? Because all four shells in evidence are from Oswald's
> gun, which was not an automatic.
>
> Explain that. (Can you do that without pretending that the cops
> planted evidence?)
>
> >>> "Answer this for me, if LHO shot JDT with a revolver why did he leave incrimating evidence like "spent shells" when he could have taken them with him?" <<<
>
> Oh goodie. Now I have to play psychologist in order to explain the
> evidence left behind. And if I can't come up with a good psychological
> report to explain Mr. Oswald's actions on 11/22, then Rob-Kook gets to
> believe that the evidence left behind by Oswald never existed. Is that
> it, kookmeister?
>
> How many more flimsy excuses have you got in your ten-gallon hat so
> you can pretend your favorite patsy is innocent? Quite a few, no
> doubt.
>
> >>> "Do you have proof his {LHO's} gun had been fired?" <<<
>
> Four bullets from Oswald's gun went into Tippit's body on 11/22/63.
> (Idiot.)
>
> But Mr. Tippit will be glad to know that the guy who shot and killed
> him couldn't have done it.
>
> J.D.'s probably still alive in Florida. How 'bout that?
>
> >>> "Do you have a match between his gun and the bullets in JDT?" <<<
>
> Joseph Nicol says so.
>
> But even without such a match, it doesn't matter, because there was
> only ONE person firing a gun on 10th St. on 11/22, and that one person
> was LHO, and LHO had a revolver on him when arrested, and that
> revolver was linked to all four shells littering the front and side
> yards of the Davis property.
>
> >>> "I think the odds are great {due} to the real killer using a combination of those types of ammo in his automatic pistol, whoever he was." <<<
>
> Nice coincidence that the "real" killer happened to have Remington and
> Winchester missiles in his gun too that day. (And it's damn lucky for
> those always-fortunate plotters that the bullets were too mangled to
> ELIMINATE Oswald's revolver as the murder weapon....save Nicol's
> testimony, of course....but you'll want to ignore Nicol, right? Ten-
> Four.)
>
> >>> "You are not mentioning that the prints on JDT's car, taken from where witnesses said the killer leaned, did not match LHO, how come?" <<<
>
> Citation please? (Something you never, ever provide.)
>
> >>> "The bullets and shells did not match LHO's style of gun." <<<
>
> A blatant lie.
>
> >>> "You are assuming again that the shells found at the {Tippit} scene are the same ones found, right?" <<<
>
> Huh? What's this double-speak? A form of Kook-Lingo, I suppose.
>
> >>> "Poe initialed two shells, and yet his initials are nowhere to be found on the final evidence." <<<
>
> Poe said he didn't remember marking them, idiot. But be sure to ignore
> the following testimony:
>
> Mr. BALL -- "Did you put any markings on the hulls?"
> Mr. POE -- "I couldn't swear to it; no, sir."
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/poe.htm
>
> >>> "They couldn't link Oswald's gun with the bullets taken out of JDT because the bullets were too mutilated." <<<
>
> And yet, incredibly, you feel confident enough to know those
> "mutilated" bullets were positively from an "automatic" gun, right?
> And those bullets, therefore, couldn't possibly have come from Oz's
> gun, correct? (Go figure the logic of this.)
>
> Fact: The lead from the Tippit bullets was consistent with bullets
> fired from Oswald's S&W bored-out .38.
>
> >>> "Even accepting that Oswald owned and possessed the weapon in question, and that the shells tested by the FBI had been fired from that weapon, the ballistics evidence is questionable." <<<
>
> Only to a kook who wants Oswald innocent of this second November 22nd
> murder too. To a reasonable person, however, the evidence is rock-
> solid, and it all hangs your sweetheart named Lee Baby.
>
> >>> "At least you are being fair." <<<
>
> It's just too bad you never are.
>
> >>> "But they {the shell casings} simply don't match LHO's gun. His gun had work done (rechambered) to it and required a fatter shell case; the ones found did not have this characteristic." <<<
>
> If you spout this lie 58 more times today it'll still be a lie.
>
> All four shells in evidence were fired from Oswald's gun. Live with
> it. Deal with it. It's called an irreversible "FACT". .....
>
> Mr. EISENBERG -- "By the way, on the cartridge cases, that was also to
> the exclusion of all other weapons?"
> Mr. NICOL -- "Correct."
>
> Plus -- If you want to believe somebody was framing Oswald for the
> Tippit murder too....why would they plant shells that could never in a
> million years be traced to Ozzie's gun (via the "bulge" excuse CT-
> Kooks constantly like to use)? That's nuts.
>
> >>> "Only one person did this {i.e., positively identified Oswald as Tippit's lone killer} -- Helen Markham." <<<
>
> Dead wrong, as usual. Three other witnesses did. But you'll ignore
> Scoggins, Benavides, and Tatum. You have to. If you don't, Oswald is 4
> times as guilty.
>
> Plus, there are witnesses named Davis, Davis, Reynolds, Callaway,
> Brock, Lewis, and Patterson -- who all saw Oswald fleeing the area of
> the murder and saw NOBODY ELSE running from the crime scene.
>
> But, maybe your "real killer" cloaked himself with the help of a
> device supplied by James T. Kirk of the U.S.S. Enterprise.
>
> Nice post, Rob. You managed to mangle 100% of the verified evidence
> connected to Officer J.D. Tippit's murder. What a surprise.
>
> BTW, why was there any need whatsoever to "frame" Oswald for Tippit's
> murder too (as so many CT nuts seem to believe)?
>
> If Oswald WASN'T really at the Tippit murder scene at all (as many
> kooks firmly believe), then why wouldn't framing Oz for JUST the
> President's murder have sufficed? Why complicate matters by trying to
> set him up for DOUBLE the slayings on November 22nd?
>
> So, per a lot of the kooks, the conspirators have doubled the
> complexity of the case and doubled the chances of the patsy-framers
> being caught by insisting upon needlessly framing LHO for Tippit's
> murder too.
>
> Wouldn't Ozzie hang from his noose just as easily for JUST having
> killed President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in Dealey Plaza?
>
> (Do you see how stupid all this covert "frame-up" shit sounds when you
> step outside its rickety framework for two seconds and peer in?)
David Von Pein
The bullets were too mutilated, idiot. (Nicol did say one bullet could
be linked to Oz's gun, though.)
>>> "Automatic shells were found." <<<
No, they weren't.
No automatic shells are in the record. And furthermore, no automatic
weapon could have been involved, because witnesses verify that Oswald
(who was the ONLY person toting a gun on 10th St.) was emptying a
REVOLVER....not an "automatic".
Guess what? You're still batting triple-oh.
>>> "Also, the .38 shells in the National Archives do not match the revolver LHO had when he was arrested either, how do you explain this?" <<<
You're full of shit. The ONLY shells in evidence perfectly match
Oswald's S&W revolver. No amount of kookcrap you utter will change
that fact.
>>> "They took two Remingtons and two Winchesters from JDT, but the shells consisted of three Winchesters and one Remington. How do you explain this?" <<<
And what do you offer as an alternate solution to the "Oswald Did It"
scenario here? -- You think that somebody with an automatic plugged
Tippit with the exact type of bullet brands that Oswald happened to
have in his gun on 11/22?
And do you think the goofball plotters decided to plant some shells on
Tenth Street, but they failed to get the mixture of shells aligned
correctly with the bullets in Tippit?
How did the plotters manage to "plant" the real Oswald on 10th St.,
who was seen dumping shells in the Davises' yard?
Let's hear your alternate CT scenario and see if it can stand on its
own two legs.
>>> "They were from an automatic pistol according to the police on the scene." <<<
Not one policeman saw a single "automatic" shell. Not one.
You know why? Because all four shells in evidence are from Oswald's
gun, which was not an automatic.
Explain that. (Can you do that without pretending that the cops
planted evidence?)
>>> "Answer this for me, if LHO shot JDT with a revolver, why did he leave incriminating evidence like "spent shells" when he could have taken them with him?" <<<
Oh goodie. Now I have to play psychologist in order to explain the
evidence left behind. And if I can't come up with a good psychological
report to explain Mr. Oswald's actions on 11/22, then Rob-Kook gets to
believe that the evidence left behind by Oswald never existed. Is that
it, kookmeister?
How many more flimsy excuses have you got in your ten-gallon hat so
you can pretend your favorite patsy is innocent? Quite a few, no
doubt.
>>> "Do you have proof his {LHO's} gun had been fired?" <<<
Four bullets from Oswald's gun went into Tippit's body on 11/22/63,
idiot. So, yes, I have ample proof. (Via the shells and via the fact
that the ONLY GUNMAN on Tenth Street was named Lee H. Oswald.)
But Mr. Tippit will be glad to know that the guy who shot and killed
him couldn't have done it.
J.D.'s probably still alive in Florida. How 'bout that?
>>> "Do you have a match between his gun and the bullets in JDT?" <<<
Joseph Nicol says so.
But even without such a match, it doesn't matter, because there was
only ONE person firing a gun on 10th St. on 11/22, and that one person
was LHO, and LHO had a revolver on him when arrested, and that
revolver was linked to all four shells littering the front and side
yards of the Davis property.
>>> "I think the odds are great {due} to the real killer using a combination of those types of ammo in his automatic pistol, whoever he was." <<<
Nice coincidence that the "real" killer happened to have Remington and
Winchester missiles in his gun too that day.
And it was damn lucky for those always-fortunate plotters that the
bullets were too mangled to ELIMINATE Oswald's revolver as the murder
weapon.
And it was also lucky that one of those bullets from a NON-Oswald gun
that went into Tippit was (somehow) identified positively as a bullet
from OSWALD'S gun by Joseph D. Nicol, huh?
I guess Mr. Nicol must have been on the conspirators' payroll
too....right, Mr. Kook? Because you claim that an "automatic" gun
killed Tippit; but Nicol says otherwise. Go figure. ~shrug~
>>> "You are not mentioning that the prints on JDT's car, taken from where witnesses said the killer leaned, did not match LHO, how come?" <<<
Citation please? (Something you never, ever provide.)
Anyway, your point is moot, because the evidence shows that Oswald
FOLDED HIS ARMS and then leaned against the patrol car's door. (Was
Oswald supposed to leave an identifiable "forearm print" on the car?
And while wearing a jacket?) <chuckle break>
>>> "The bullets and shells did not match LHO's style of gun." <<<
A blatant lie.
>>> "You are assuming again that the shells found at the {Tippit} scene are the same ones found, right?" <<<
Huh? What's this double-speak? A form of Kook-Lingo, I suppose.
>>> "Poe initialed two shells, and yet his initials are nowhere to be found on the final evidence." <<<
Poe said he didn't remember marking them, idiot. But be sure to ignore
the following testimony:
Mr. BALL -- "Did you put any markings on the hulls?"
Mr. POE -- "I couldn't swear to it; no, sir."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/poe.htm
>>> "They couldn't link Oswald's gun with the bullets taken out of JDT because the bullets were too mutilated." <<<
And yet, incredibly, you feel confident enough to know those
"mutilated" bullets were positively from an "automatic" gun, right?
And those bullets, therefore, couldn't possibly have come from Oz's
gun, correct? (Go figure the logic of this.)
Fact: The lead from the Tippit bullets was consistent with bullets
fired from Oswald's S&W bored-out .38.
>>> "Even accepting that Oswald owned and possessed the weapon in question, and that the shells tested by the FBI had been fired from that weapon, the ballistics evidence is questionable." <<<
Only to a kook who wants Oswald innocent of this second November 22nd
murder too. To a reasonable person, however, the evidence is rock-
solid, and it all hangs your sweetheart named Lee Baby.
>>> "At least you are being fair." <<<
It's just too bad you never are.
>>> "But they {the shell casings} simply don't match LHO's gun. His gun had work done (rechambered) to it and required a fatter shell case; the ones found did not have this characteristic." <<<
If you spout this lie 58 more times today it'll still be a lie.
All four shells in evidence were fired from Oswald's gun. Live with
it. Deal with it. It's called an irreversible "FACT". .....
Mr. EISENBERG -- "By the way, on the cartridge cases, that was also to
the exclusion of all other weapons?"
David Von Pein
match-up or not. It's totally immaterial. Oswald's still guilty many
times over....via the bullet shells (which all came from Ozzie's gun)
and the many witnesses (who are a dozen deep).
And since Ozzie was the ONLY person with a gun on Tenth Street....it
shouldn't keep you up all night with pencil and paper trying to figure
out who the murderer of Tippit was....should it, Mr. Mega-K-word?
David Von Pein
It's also rather hilarious to find Walt The Kook suddenly SIDING with
the FBI (an organization he has previously deemed totally useless and
worthless when it comes to the JFK case, as all ABO kooks do at one
time or another).
But since Frazier, Killion, and Cunningham AGREE with Walt The K-Word
in this particular instance re. the Tippit bullets, suddenly they are
to be considered trustworthy and honest men, right Mr. Nutcase?
I wonder why those 3 FBI guys didn't lie their asses off about those
Tippit bullets...like you no doubt think Nicol did? Ever wonder why
they didn't do that?
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "The extracted bullets {from J.D. Tippit's body} did not match the gun LHO had when he was arrested, how do you explain that?" <<<
>
> linked to Oz's gun, though.)
Idiot? The FBI said none could be matched, in fact, they said when
they fired shots themselves from the gun they couldn't match them.
Explain this because you said I'm an idiot.
>
> >>> "Automatic shells were found." <<<
>
> No, they weren't.
Yes they were. Poe and the other officers said they were. 1:36PM - a
policeman at the scene of the JDT shooting radioes a description: "I
got an eyeball witness to the getaway man - that suspect in this
shooting. He is a white male...apparently armed with a .32, dark
finish, **automatic** pistol". In a few minutes Sergeant Gerald Hill
will send a similar message: "The shells at the scene indicate that
the suspect is armed with an **automatic** .38 pistol". (Hill had many
years of military and police experience)
> No automatic shells are in the record. And furthermore, no automatic
> weapon could have been involved, because witnesses verify that Oswald
> (who was the ONLY person toting a gun on 10th St.) was emptying a
> REVOLVER....not an "automatic".
Of course not, that wouldn't fit the pattern they wanted. What
witnesses? You had one primary and she was very inconsistent. I
don't care about the witnesses, trained police officers say the were
autmotic shells.
>
> Guess what? You're still batting triple-oh.
Guess what? You're still brain dead.
>
> >>> "Also, the .38 shells in the National Archives do not match the revolver LHO had when he was arrested either, how do you explain this?" <<<
>
> You're full of shit. The ONLY shells in evidence perfectly match
> Oswald's S&W revolver. No amount of kookcrap you utter will change
> that fact.
No they don't. The ones in the Archives are for a standard .38, as
the FBI noted LHO's gun was rechambered (enlarged) which called for a
fatter casing. Learn your facts.
>
> >>> "They took two Remingtons and two Winchesters from JDT, but the shells consisted of three Winchesters and one Remington. How do you explain this?" <<<
>
> And what do you offer as an alternate solution to the "Oswald Did It"
> scenario here? -- You think that somebody with an automatic plugged
> Tippit with the exact type of bullet brands that Oswald happened to
> have in his gun on 11/22?
I think based on the planted shells (and they messed that up didn't
they) and the wallet left at the scene and found by officer Westbrook,
who shows it to FBI agent Barrett. It was a setup. I mean who leaves
their wallet at a crime scene? It also had a driver license in it and
Marina and Ruth Paine said LHO could not drive. JDT was tied to the
mob and he was supposed to pickup LHO according to what I read, but
like the plans changed for LHO they changed for JDT. He was killed to
silence him and whatever he may have known and it served a second
purpose, it made LHO look violent.
>
> And do you think the goofball plotters decided to plant some shells on
> Tenth Street, but they failed to get the mixture of shells aligned
> correctly with the bullets in Tippit?
I guess so, since that is what happened, but they knew it would get
sorted out and fixed later. Guess what? It did!
>
> How did the plotters manage to "plant" the real Oswald on 10th St.,
> who was seen dumping shells in the Davises' yard?
You need to get up to speed, no one could definitively say they saw
LHO doing anything. Your start witness was very shaky.
>
> Let's hear your alternate CT scenario and see if it can stand on its
> own two legs.
I gave it already. He was involved in this scheme like LHO was,
neither was told about the assassination being real. JDT was supposed
to take LHO to the Redbird airport where a plane was waiting. I have
read this in quite a few sources. But when the assassination went
through and LHO became the patsy his escape was not needed. Tippit
still went by his rooming house and honked (Unit #10) looking for
him. One of the pros would kill JDT for the reasons I said - to shut
him up and to frame LHO further. Remember your "witnesses" Warren
Reynolds and B.M. Patterson? They were chasing the real killer, not
LHO. The gunman realizes he is being followed by these two and dashes
behind a Texaco gas station, hiding among the cars in the parking
lot. He is trapped and will probably be caught as the police come
swarming into the area, but guess what? A Dallas police dispatch
saves the gunman from capture, it says, "He (the suspect) in the
library, Jefferson, East 500 block, Marsalis and Jefferson." Minutes
later a f/u dispatch says, "We are all at the library." Some
researchers have asserted they were delibrately pulled out and sent on
a "wild goose chase" to save the real killer. A few minutes after all
the cops arrive at the library another dispatch that goes out, "It was
the wrong man." The Marsalis bus LHO supposedly rides passes the
library at **the same time**. Who was the "wrong man" and how did they
know he was the wrong man so fast?
>
> >>> "They were from an automatic pistol according to the police on the scene." <<<
>
> Not one policeman saw a single "automatic" shell. Not one.
Really Sgt. Hill and the other officer sent dispatches mentioning an
automatic pistol.
>
> You know why? Because all four shells in evidence are from Oswald's
> gun, which was not an automatic.
Right, they were taken out of his gun when he was captured and then
entered into evidence. Because all the shells found were from an
automatic pistol.
>
> Explain that. (Can you do that without pretending that the cops
> planted evidence?)
I never said the cops planted anything, I think those in charge of the
"evidence" just switched out what was found and put in what "matched"
LHO's gun.
>
> >>> "Answer this for me, if LHO shot JDT with a revolver why did he leave incrimating evidence like "spent shells" when he could have taken them with him?" <<<
>
> Oh goodie. Now I have to play psychologist in order to explain the
> evidence left behind. And if I can't come up with a good psychological
> report to explain Mr. Oswald's actions on 11/22, then Rob-Kook gets to
> believe that the evidence left behind by Oswald never existed. Is that
> it, kookmeister?
No you don't. We have a real oddball here as he leaves shells
everywhere he goes, which is normal behavior for some one who expects
to be caught, but not for someone who claims to be innocent. He leaves
his wallet at the JDT scene. Not normal behavior. At the same time he
bothers to "hide" the rifle behind boxes? Why bother when you are
leaving shells everywhere and your wallet? I knew you couldn't answer
that one and you didn't disappoint.
>
> How many more flimsy excuses have you got in your ten-gallon hat so
> you can pretend your favorite patsy is innocent? Quite a few, no
> doubt.
Flimsy? I think that is a real legitimate question. What criminal
committing major crimes like this leave such easy evidence for the
police? Why not just wait for them to show up?
>
> >>> "Do you have proof his {LHO's} gun had been fired?" <<<
>
> Four bullets from Oswald's gun went into Tippit's body on 11/22/63.
> (Idiot.)
Wrong. I showed you this earlier. You have no proof.
>
> But Mr. Tippit will be glad to know that the guy who shot and killed
> him couldn't have done it.
Lame.
>
> J.D.'s probably still alive in Florida. How 'bout that?
Even Lamer. Can't answer the real tough ones, huh?
>
> >>> "Do you have a match between his gun and the bullets in JDT?" <<<
>
> Joseph Nicol says so.
No, he said one did. The FBI disagreed with him.
>
> But even without such a match, it doesn't matter, because there was
> only ONE person firing a gun on 10th St. on 11/22, and that one person
> was LHO, and LHO had a revolver on him when arrested, and that
> revolver was linked to all four shells littering the front and side
> yards of the Davis property.
Of course, only a nutjob would continue to accuse someone with no
proof.
>
> >>> "I think the odds are great {due} to the real killer using a combination of those types of ammo in his automatic pistol, whoever he was." <<<
>
> Nice coincidence that the "real" killer happened to have Remington and
> Winchester missiles in his gun too that day. (And it's damn lucky for
> those always-fortunate plotters that the bullets were too mangled to
> ELIMINATE Oswald's revolver as the murder weapon....save Nicol's
> testimony, of course....but you'll want to ignore Nicol, right? Ten-
> Four.)
Not really, since his pistol was an automatic, the shells eject
automatically. The real killer knew it would be taken care of like
the phony dispatch calling the cops off of him at the parking lot. The
fix was in.
>
> >>> "You are not mentioning that the prints on JDT's car, taken from where witnesses said the killer leaned, did not match LHO, how come?" <<<
>
> Citation please? (Something you never, ever provide.)
Sgt. W.E. Barnes dusted JDT's car for prints told the WC, "There were
several smear prints. None of value...No legible prints were found."
>
> >>> "The bullets and shells did not match LHO's style of gun." <<<
>
> A blatant lie.
Sorry, the truth hurts doesn't it?
>
> >>> "You are assuming again that the shells found at the {Tippit} scene are the same ones found, right?" <<<
>
> Huh? What's this double-speak? A form of Kook-Lingo, I suppose.
I meant there are the ones found at the scene and then those "found"
by the WC who entered different casing into evidence.
>
> >>> "Poe initialed two shells, and yet his initials are nowhere to be found on the final evidence." <<<
>
> Poe said he didn't remember marking them, idiot. But be sure to ignore
> the following testimony:
>
> Mr. BALL -- "Did you put any markings on the hulls?"
> Mr. POE -- "I couldn't swear to it; no, sir."
Of course, this is Wc testimony. He told a bunch of others including
other cops he did.
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/poe.htm
>
> >>> "They couldn't link Oswald's gun with the bullets taken out of JDT because the bullets were too mutilated." <<<
>
> And yet, incredibly, you feel confident enough to know those
> "mutilated" bullets were positively from an "automatic" gun, right?
> And those bullets, therefore, couldn't possibly have come from Oz's
> gun, correct? (Go figure the logic of this.)
We know an automatic was used because of the **casings* not the
bullets.
>
> Fact: The lead from the Tippit bullets was consistent with bullets
> fired from Oswald's S&W bored-out .38.
You dreaming. It is far from fact, only in your diluted head is it
fact.
>
> >>> "Even accepting that Oswald owned and possessed the weapon in question, and that the shells tested by the FBI had been fired from that weapon, the ballistics evidence is questionable." <<<
>
> Only to a kook who wants Oswald innocent of this second November 22nd
> murder too. To a reasonable person, however, the evidence is rock-
> solid, and it all hangs your sweetheart named Lee Baby.
No, only to a smart, sane person, two things you are not. The FBI
disagrees with you on this.
>
> >>> "At least you are being fair." <<<
>
> It's just too bad you never are.
>
> >>> "But they {the shell casings} simply don't match LHO's gun. His gun had work done (rechambered) to it and required a fatter shell case; the ones found did not have this characteristic." <<<
>
> If you spout this lie 58 more times today it'll still be a lie.
Sorry, it is not a lie, it is fact according to the FBI. You always
act like their word is final, so accept it.
>
> All four shells in evidence were fired from Oswald's gun. Live with
> it. Deal with it. It's called an irreversible "FACT". .....
Sorry, they weren't.
>
> Mr. EISENBERG -- "By the way, on the cartridge cases, that was also to
> the exclusion of all other weapons?"
> Mr. NICOL -- "Correct."
Nicol was pressured into this. He was wrong.
>
> Plus -- If you want to believe somebody was framing Oswald for the
> Tippit murder too....why would they plant shells that could never in a
> million years be traced to Ozzie's gun (via the "bulge" excuse CT-
> Kooks constantly like to use)? That's nuts.
Because, they knew it would be taken care of by those in charge of the
"investigation" and they were right.
>
> >>> "Only one person did this {i.e., positively identified Oswald as Tippit's lone killer} -- Helen Markham." <<<
>
> Dead wrong, as usual. Three other witnesses did. But you'll ignore
> Scoggins, Benavides, and Tatum. You have to. If you don't, Oswald is 4
> times as guilty.
None of them definitely ID'd LHO.
>
> Plus, there are witnesses named Davis, Davis, Reynolds, Callaway,
> Brock, Lewis, and Patterson -- who all saw Oswald fleeing the area of
> the murder and saw NOBODY ELSE running from the crime scene.
No, they saw the real killer run away and the above notes prove it.
>
> But, maybe your "real killer" cloaked himself with the help of a
> device supplied by James T. Kirk of the U.S.S. Enterprise.
NO, it was spotted and chased, but the DPD bailed him out.
>
> Nice post, Rob. You managed to mangle 100% of the verified evidence
> connected to Officer J.D. Tippit's murder. What a surprise.
It is not verified evidence to any sane person.
>
> BTW, why was there any need whatsoever to "frame" Oswald for Tippit's
> murder too (as so many CT nuts seem to believe)?
As I said, JDT needed to be done away with so he couldn't talk of what
he knew, so they killed two birds for the price of one (no pun
intended). It made LHO look violent too.
>
> If Oswald WASN'T really at the Tippit murder scene at all (as many
> kooks firmly believe), then why wouldn't framing Oz for JUST the
> President's murder have sufficed? Why complicate matters by trying to
> set him up for DOUBLE the slayings on November 22nd?
Because, JDT had to be done in and they had to explain a dead cop some
how, didn't they?
>
> So, per a lot of the kooks, the conspirators have doubled the
> complexity of the case and doubled the chances of the patsy-framers
> being caught by insisting upon needlessly framing LHO for Tippit's
> murder too.
No complexity when you control all the "evidence" and the
"investigation".
>
> Wouldn't Ozzie hang from his noose just as easily for JUST having
> killed President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in Dealey Plaza?
NO, he would have been gunned down while in DPD custody just as
easily.
>
> (Do you see how stupid all this covert "frame-up" shit sounds when you
> step outside its rickety framework for two seconds and peer in?)
NO, not really. I think believing in lies and fairy tales is more
silly.
robcap...@netscape.com
> This may help you>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
>
>
Thanks Tom!
> ...
>
> read more >>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
David Von Pein
was planted? There will be no convincing a kook like Rob of anything
remotely resembling the facts and truth.
This kook believes that the shells in the Archives are NOT from
Oswald's revolver. (And this from a nut who thinks all the evidence
WAS faked...and yet somebody forgot to put the correct bullet shells
in the Archives.)
Robby can't find one polioceman who SAW AN AUTOMATIC SHELL CASING,
though. Because none ever existed. The initial "automatic" police
transmissions were based on Callaway's and Hill's erroneous thoughts.
They've since been corrected, of course. But Rob-K. doesn't believe in
anything being CORRECTED. No take-backs. Even when the original
observations are later proven invalid.
So, the DPD was filled with bastards and evidence-planting
crooks....so was the Sheriif's Office too (they must have been,
working so close with the DPD like they were)....and the WC was full
of rotten liars too....and Henry Wade, too, don't forget him...he's a
liar too. And the FBI, particular Frazier...he was "full of shit", per
Rob-Super-Kook.
Caprio should be thoroughly embarrassed by the tripe he posts. But
he's not.
He's got no proof of anything he posts, like evidence-planting. But
he's not embarrassed about calling many people liars and felons, like
the Chief Justice of the USA and Gerald Ford and the FBI's top
ballistics investigators, and Will Fritz, a 31-yr. DPD veteran, and on
and on.
Rob.....one word describes you and your ilk best......
Sickening.
(But at least he found 2.5 bullets on the roofs of nearby buildings
that he can pretend are connected with the case.)
dcwi...@netscape.net
Yes, and I've heard that 3 tramps passing thru Oak Cliff found 3 more
hulls at the intersection of 10th & Patton, in 1997
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_...
David Von Pein
verify the facts re. the ballistics?
You do realize, don't you, that Frazier and Cunningham and Killion and
Nicol ALL verified that ALL THREE bullet shells in the SN were ejected
from Oswald's rifle "to the exclusion"?
And you do realize, don't you, that all of those men verified that all
three shells on 10th St. were fired in Oz's revolver "to the
exclusion", don't you?
And you do realize that both front-seat bullet fragments were fired in
Oswald's MC rifle, right? All four experts verified that fact too.
Any idea why you're denying those proven ballistics match-ups?
>>> "None of them {Scoggins, Benavides, Tatum} definitely ID'd LHO." <<<
Good, another Caprio bald-faced lie. They flow like water from this
fucking moron.
Every single one of those witnesses positively IDed LHO as Tippit's
killer.
But you'll keep denying that fact too, right kook?
You can't be for real. I've come to realize that now. Because nobody's
REALLY as fucking stupid as you pretend to be. Impossible.
And I see where Robby-boy thinks that the Davis & Davis girls (who
were a matter of a few FEET from Oswald as he ran) actually saw a non-
Oswald killer crossing their yard unloading OSWALD'S pistol (somehow).
Even after the kook is proven wrong with the evidence he keeps
floating his bullshit. Well, that stuff does tend to rise to the top I
guess.
Keep floating it, Rob. It stinks....but the hilarity of your shit
makes up for the foul stench.
dcwi...@netscape.net
> What's the use arguing with a Mega-Kook who thinks all the evidence
> was planted? There will be no convincing a kook like Rob of anything
> remotely resembling the facts and truth.
>
> This kook believes that the shells in the Archives are NOT from
> Oswald's revolver. (And this from a nut who thinks all the evidence
> WAS faked...and yet somebody forgot to put the correct bullet shells
> in the Archives.)
>
> Robby can't find one polioceman who SAW AN AUTOMATIC SHELL CASING,
> though. Because none ever existed. The initial "automatic" police
> transmissions were based on Callaway's and Hill's erroneous thoughts.
Look at Myers' book again, David. About 1985, Hill told Myers that
*he* picked up the hulls! And then he radioed "automatic 38s"....
dw
aeffects
> What's the use arguing with a Mega-Kook
you have no choice.... you cease to exist without us, actually you
should be paying us, bonuses even.... you've been consumed by the WCR
and Vinnie daBug. I bet Vin even lets you sit in on a studio gig every
now and then... especially if you can pay your own expenses to and
from wherever Vin thinks he can squeeze into a studio peanut
gallery....
aeffects
> On Nov 28, 9:47 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > What's the use arguing with a Mega-Kook who thinks all the evidence
> > was planted? There will be no convincing a kook like Rob of anything
> > remotely resembling the facts and truth.
>
> > This kook believes that the shells in the Archives are NOT from
> > Oswald's revolver. (And this from a nut who thinks all the evidence
> > WAS faked...and yet somebody forgot to put the correct bullet shells
> > in the Archives.)
>
> > Robby can't find one polioceman who SAW AN AUTOMATIC SHELL CASING,
> > though. Because none ever existed. The initial "automatic" police
> > transmissions were based on Callaway's and Hill's erroneous thoughts.
>
> Look at Myers' book again, David. About 1985, Hill told Myers that
> *he* picked up the hulls! And then he radioed "automatic 38s"....
David doesn't want to hear that, nor does Elmer Fudd-Myers
Walt
> Addendum.....
>
> It's also rather hilarious to find Walt The Kook suddenly SIDING with
> the FBI (an organization he has previously deemed totally useless and
> worthless when it comes to the JFK case, as all ABO kooks do at one
> time or another).
>
> But since Frazier, Killion, and Cunningham AGREE with Walt The K-Word
> to be considered trustworthy and honest men, right Mr. Nutcase?
>
> they didn't do that?
Hey, Von Pea Brain.... You should have someone who can comprehend
what he reads interpret my posts for you. I've said many times That
the ENTIRE FBI was not involved in the conspiracy.......Only J.Edna
Hoover and his goon squad.
The FBI had far more good, honest, agents than the handful of thugs
who would kiss Hoover's ass if that's what he ordered them to do.
Some of those agents attempted to get the truth on the record without,
being railroaded into prison, on trumped up charges by Hoover.
Abraham Bolden, and Nagell, learned very quickly what happened to
agents that stepped out of line.
Walt
It doesn't matter whether Joe Nicol was 100% correct re. the bullet
match-up or not. It's totally immaterial.
Fool..... Matching the bullets to the gun is CRITICAL!!
Oswald's still guilty many times over....via the bullet shells (which
all came from Ozzie's gun)
and the many witnesses (who are a dozen deep).
Oh, You mean like Helen Markham.....who said the killer was a "little
bit short" and a "little bit heavy" with "dark colored hair, possibly
black or dark brown, and kinda bushy" Or Domingo Benevides who was
only about twenty feet away from the shooting who said the killer had
his hair cut in a manner that was square across the collar and made
the back of his head look flat. ( LHO's mug shots show that his head
looked NOTHING like D B described!)
And since Ozzie was the ONLY person with a gun on Tenth Street....
Oh really.....Just how do you know THAT!!
Can you PROVE that LHO was on 10th street at the time JDT was shot??
At least one person said that LHO was in the Texas theater a few
minutes after 1:00, and LHO's landlady said she saw him standing
calmly on the sidewalk in front of the rooming house at about 1:03
-1:04. Helen Markham saw the killer shoot JDT at about 1:06. The
rooming house and the murder scene are nearly a mile apart. Do you
really think that LHO was superman, and could travel that distance in
two or three minutes??
Walt
Walt
> Hey, Rob-Kook.....do you ever READ the links I provide you, which
> verify the facts re. the ballistics?
>
> You do realize, don't you, that Frazier and Cunningham and Killion and
> Nicol ALL verified that ALL THREE bullet shells in the SN were ejected
> from Oswald's rifle "to the exclusion"?
So what..... simply because the spent shells were found there does NOT
tell us WHEN or WHERE they were fired in that gun.
>
> And you do realize, don't you, that all of those men verified that all
> three shells on 10th St. were fired in Oz's revolver "to the
> exclusion", don't you?
Hey Von Pea Brain..... I gotta admit that SOME of the evidence
"seems" strong, at first blush, that LHO shot JDT. However that
evidence is NOT rock solid. Simply because the FBI's experts said
that the shells THEY WERE GIVEN matched the revolver that Oswald HAD
IN HIS BELT does NOT tell us that they were in FACT the same shells
that had been found at the scene. As I recall the FBI lab received
those shells weeks after the shooting..... and the shells don't have
the identifing marks on them that officers at the scene put on the
shells at that time.
>
> And you do realize that both front-seat bullet fragments were fired in
> Oswald's MC rifle, right? All four experts verified that fact too.
WHEN were they fired? Were the fragments gathered up at some remote
site and then dropped into the Limo??
Don'tcha think it's kinda odd that NONE of the fragments were
retrieved from the soft flesh of others in the car, or that none were
found behind a hole in the upholsery?? Doesn't it seem odd that they
were just lying on the floor??
Walt
Walt
Von Pea Brain wrote:...."The six unfired bullets found in Lee Harvey
Oswald's gun (which he
was carrying and attempting to use on the arresting police officers
when he was apprehended in the theater) "
You and I both know that this statement is a damned lie..... Virtually
all of the witnesses who saw a revolver in Oswald's possession said it
was in his waistband. He never pulled that gun and attempted "to use
it on the arresting police officers"
When you lie like this, it only serves to cast doubt on anything you
say, and it weakens your already less than sterling reputation.
Walt
Papa Andy
> >>> "You never address whether conspiracy was involved here." <<<
>
> Only a person who desperately WANTS a "conspiracy" in the Tippit
> murder would conclude such a thing. The actual evidence certainly
> doesn't support such a notion; that's for sure.
>
> One man.
> One gun.
> One murderer named Oswald.
>
> Nothing even remotely suggests otherwise (once the sum total of all
> the evidence and witness observations is assessed and weighed).
According to the LNs, JFK and JDT are linked tightly together
LHO killed JDT because he killed JFK
LHO killed JFK because he killed JDT
was conspiracy involved?
DVP blinds himself to the possibility that JDT was connected to LHO
before JFK was killed
A
curtjester1
>
> - Show quoted text -
DVP still's battin' .000. When's he going to admit that too many game
ending double plays is just too much?
CJ
robcap...@netscape.com
> What's the use arguing with a Mega-Kook who thinks all the evidence
> was planted? There will be no convincing a kook like Rob of anything
> remotely resembling the facts and truth.
You are like the WC, full of distortion. I never said "all" the
evidence was planted, but the "key" stuff sure was. It was necessary
to make LHO look guilty and if it took a little gardening (planting)
then that is what they did. You are extremely naive if you think this
is far out. Do you really think the O.J. case was the first case to
have "planted" evidence?
>
> This kook believes that the shells in the Archives are NOT from
> Oswald's revolver. (And this from a nut who thinks all the evidence
> WAS faked...and yet somebody forgot to put the correct bullet shells
> in the Archives.)
They are not as they are for a standard .38 revolver and as I said
before LHO's was a rechambered one that fired a fuller .38 case. Ask
a gun expert if you don't believe me.
>
> Robby can't find one polioceman who SAW AN AUTOMATIC SHELL CASING,
> though. Because none ever existed. The initial "automatic" police
> transmissions were based on Callaway's and Hill's erroneous thoughts.
> They've since been corrected, of course. But Rob-K. doesn't believe in
> anything being CORRECTED. No take-backs. Even when the original
> observations are later proven invalid.
You are the fibber now as I said Poe marked the automatic shells he
found and Sgt. Hill broadcasted a dispatch for a .38 automatic pistol
being used by the killer. There was the other officer who said a .32
automatic pistol, at the very least there are two DPD men who mention
it on that day.
>
> So, the DPD was filled with bastards and evidence-planting
> crooks....so was the Sheriif's Office too (they must have been,
> working so close with the DPD like they were)....and the WC was full
> of rotten liars too....and Henry Wade, too, don't forget him...he's a
> liar too. And the FBI, particular Frazier...he was "full of shit", per
> Rob-Super-Kook.
I think I said I never accused the cops on the scene of planting
anything, you should brush up on your reading skills. The only other
option is that we have the dumbest criminal in the history of the
world, dropping evidence where ever he went. Please. He was caught
telling the truth early on, something Wade had to amend in the days to
come, so yes he is a liar. Frazier was just there to say whatever they
wanted. The man at the Edgewood Arsenal wouldn't say it was possible
for CE399 so what do they do? They use a vet at the same facility to
say it is possible because he shot a "sheep" and it came out the same
way! Steller work.
>
> Caprio should be thoroughly embarrassed by the tripe he posts. But
> he's not.
I'm not, as it is closer to the truth than the crap you post.
>
> He's got no proof of anything he posts, like evidence-planting. But
> he's not embarrassed about calling many people liars and felons, like
> the Chief Justice of the USA and Gerald Ford and the FBI's top
> ballistics investigators, and Will Fritz, a 31-yr. DPD veteran, and on
> and on.
I don't need to show exact proof do I? If the bullets removed from
JDT do not match LHO's gun, yet the WC said LHO shot him, how hard is
it to figure out something is up?
>
> Rob.....one word describes you and your ilk best......
>
> Sickening.
Good, I hope I make you sick all the time. I hope you barf
constantly. Nothing would make me happier.
>
> (But at least he found 2.5 bullets on the roofs of nearby buildings
> that he can pretend are connected with the case.)
Denial is always the first stage. Hopefully you will move on to
acceptance sooner than later.
robcap...@netscape.com
> Hey, Rob-Kook.....do you ever READ the links I provide you, which
> verify the facts re. the ballistics?
I do if they aren't from John's site, I know his stuff is full of crap
for the most part. I already told you I don't accept the WCR or the
HSCA report (for the most part) so why would I continue to read your
post?
>
> You do realize, don't you, that Frazier and Cunningham and Killion and
> Nicol ALL verified that ALL THREE bullet shells in the SN were ejected
> from Oswald's rifle "to the exclusion"?
Like Walt said, so what? He doesn't prove they were fired that day, or
that LHO fired them or that LHO owned the gun. You have nothing based
on the shells alone, especially when you consider they way they were
found in a neat little line. A rifle doesn't eject a serious of shells
in that precise order.
>
> And you do realize, don't you, that all of those men verified that all
> three shells on 10th St. were fired in Oz's revolver "to the
> exclusion", don't you?
So? Where they on 10th St. following the shooting? I don't think so,
therefore, they based their decisions on what was given to them.
Prove to me what they were given is the same thing(s) that was found
at the crime scene. Bet you can't.
>
> And you do realize that both front-seat bullet fragments were fired in
> Oswald's MC rifle, right? All four experts verified that fact too.
Like Walt said, they could have been put there at anytime. We all
know (the ones who don't live in denial) that the limo was hardly
sealed off and protected as a crime scene. This is not far-fetched at
all.
>
> Any idea why you're denying those proven ballistics match-ups?
Yes, because the original nature of the "evidence" is in question as
it doesn't add up the way the police found much of it.
>
> >>> "None of them {Scoggins, Benavides, Tatum} definitely ID'd LHO." <<<
>
> Good, another Caprio bald-faced lie. They flow like water from this
> fucking moron.
They didn't and as we have seen several of the witnesses chased the
real killer. What about the jacket they found near the scene? They
could not tie it to LHO at all. They checked *every* dry cleaner in
the Dallas-Ft. Worth - all 424 of them and they cannot match the
laundry tag to LHO. They even check the dry cleaners in New Orleans
and after 293 establishments have been ruled out they had to conclude
it was not LHO's. Marina said he had no jacket that color and this one
was medium when all LHO wore were smalls. Who's jacket is this?
>
> Every single one of those witnesses positively IDed LHO as Tippit's
> killer.
No they didn't. The other thing all the witnesses agreed on is that
JDT's car and the killer were walking *towards* each other, while the
WC said LHO was walking east, or away from JDT.
> But you'll keep denying that fact too, right kook?
Of course as it is not true.
>
> You can't be for real. I've come to realize that now. Because nobody's
> REALLY as fucking stupid as you pretend to be. Impossible.
I'm not, you are for believing thise blatant lies for so many years.
Start seeing the evidence for what it is, LHO did not commit either
crime.
>
> And I see where Robby-boy thinks that the Davis & Davis girls (who
> were a matter of a few FEET from Oswald as he ran) actually saw a non-
> Oswald killer crossing their yard unloading OSWALD'S pistol (somehow).
I'm sure they didn't see LHO as no one else really saw him, but were
told who to see.
>
> Even after the kook is proven wrong with the evidence he keeps
> floating his bullshit. Well, that stuff does tend to rise to the top I
> guess.
You haven't proved anything wrong, that is the sad part as you think
you have.
>
> Keep floating it, Rob. It stinks....but the hilarity of your shit
> makes up for the foul stench.
You oblivious nature is what is really the funny part. Keep dreaming,
it won't make the bogeymen go away though.
Gil Jesus
June 2005
April 2006
March 2007
Hey Von Pinhead:
It doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself. You still look
stupid ( three years running ) , quoting from the 26 volumes of LIES
and that nutcase McAdams.
Was there a witness who saw TWO men fleeing the Tippit murder ?
Was she threatened to keep quiet by a "Man with a gun" ?
Was she ever called before the WC ?
Let's see what she said in 1966 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OH06xqX2g
Let's look at how long it would have taken Oswald to get to the Tippit
murder scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf8D6NuLIhw
Let's see how dependable the government's witnesses to the Tippit
murder were:
David Von Pein
Wouldn't you agree that extraordinary accusations (such as destroying
evidence, planting evidence, manufacturing evidence, coercing
witnesses, and killing witnesses) requires EXTRAORDINARY PROOF to show
beyond a reasonable doubt that these things that CTers believe
actually happened did, in fact, occur?
Or do you simply think that by saying "Hey, that evidence could have
been planted", it's the same as proving your extraordinary allegation
of evidence-tampering?
It seems that many CT-Kooks DO, indeed, believe the latter.
THAT is the really "funny part".
tomnln
See if David will address them?
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5c88f2d7-0d39-49c7...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> "You oblivious nature is what is really the funny part. Keep dreaming,
>>>> it won't make the bogeymen go away though." <<<
>
>