NINE DIFFERENT SOURCES OF A 7.65 MAUSER IN DEALEY PLAZA
Gil Jesus
NINE DIFFERENT SOURCES OF A 7.65 MAUSER IN DEALEY PLAZA
1. After DEPUTY SHERIFF ROGER CRAIG viewed the sniper's nest, where he
saw three spent 6.5 millimeter cartridges, he began to search for a
weapon with Boone. "We started toward the northeast corner of the
building. There was a stack of boxes at the head of the stairwell and
Boone looked into it and said, 'Here it is. Here's the rifle.' We
didn't touch it until Captain Fritz and Lt. Day of the Dallas police
got there. They took some pictures of the rifle and Day pulled out the
rifle and handed it to Captain Fritz, who held it up by the strap and
asked if anyone knew what kind of rifle it was. Deputy Constable
Seymour Weitzman had joined us and Weitzman was a gun buff, and he was
very good with weapons. He said, 'It looks like a Mauser.' He walked
over to Fritz, and Captain Fritz was holding the rifle up in the air,
and I was standing next to Weitzman, who was standing next to Fritz,
and we weren't more than 6-8 inches from the rifle, and stamped right
on the barrel of the rifle was '7.65 Mauser,' and that's when Weitzman
said, 'It is a Mauser,' and pointed to the '7.65 Mauser' on the
barrel." [21]
2. Boone later testified that CAPTAIN FRITZ also thought that the gun
was a Mauser. [22]
3. BOONE testified in two written reports that the gun was a Mauser.
WEITZMAN signed an affidavit the next day stating that the rifle he
and Boone had found was a "7.65 Mauser bolt action equipped with a
4/18 scope, a thick leather brownish-black sling on it." [23]
Weitzman's description includes the exact calibration of the scope and
the color of the sling, evidence that he examined the rifle and didn't
just take a wild guess.
4. An FBI ENVELOPE (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122) dated
12/2/1963 that was released in 1995 by the Assassinations Record
Review Board ( ARRB ) had a cover that detailed the contents of the
envelope as being a 7.65 mm rifle shell. The shell was allegedly found
in Dealey Plaza after the shooting, though nothing was known about
this envelope or rifle shell until the release of the 1995 records.
The whereabouts of the 7.65 mm rifle shell is unknown. Researcher Anna
Marie Kuhns-Walko first reported the envelope. The envelope had the
following label: "7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/1963 ...
determined of no value and destroyed."
5. On the afternoon of the shooting, KBOX, a Dallas television
station, broadcast that "a rifle has been found in a staircase on the
fifth floor ... Sheriff's deputies identify the weapon as a 7.65
Mauser ..." [25]
6. Later that night at a televised press conference, DALLAS DISTRICT
ATTORNEY HENRY WADE declared that the rifle found in the Depository
was a 7.65 German Mauser. [28]
7. THE CIA produced a document on the 25th of November 1963 that
declared " ... the description of a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the
Italian and foreign press is in error. It was a Mauser." [29]
8. LEE HARVEY OSWALD told his inquisitors that he had seen a Mauser in
the Texas School Book Depository. On November 20th, Warren Carter, an
employee of Southwestern Publishing Company that occupied part of the
second floor in the Depository, brought a Mauser rifle for his fellow
employees to look at, a fact that was verified by numerous Depository
employees. [30]
Curiously, Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano clearly has "MADE ITALY" and
"CAL 6.5" stamped on the side of the barrel. Though Oswald's rifle was
clearly marked, Boone, Weitzman, Craig, and Fritz at one time stated
they thought the gun was a Mauser, and Lt. Day's report is not
available. Weitzman's description includes the exact calibration of
the scope and the color of the sling, evidence that he examined the
rifle and didn't just take a wild guess at what it was.
Though it is very clear that what the officers thought they had found
was a Mauser, the Warren
Commission explained away this problem by stating "Weitzman did not
handle the rifle and did not examine it at close range... thought it
was a Mauser ... [and eventually] police laboratory technicians
subsequently arrived and correctly identified the weapon as a 6.5
Italian rifle." [31]
But what the officers found may very well have been a Mauser
considering what Frank Ellsworth saw in the Depository that day.
Ellsworth was an agent of the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agency
and was in his office not far from the Depository when he was told of
the shooting. He ran to the Depository and entered the building with
Captain Will Fritz. Ellsworth claims he found the sniper's nest on the
sixth floor, but the "gun was not found on the same floor as the
cartridges, but on a lower floor by a couple of city detectives... I
think the rifle was found on the fourth floor." [32]
Ellsworth participated in a second search of the Depository after 1:30
p.m. on November 22, 1963. The gun that was found was an Italian
Mannlicher-Carcano hidden behind boxes near the "stairwell back in the
northwest corner ... I have the recollection that the position it was
in, and where it was found, led to conjecture that as Oswald came down
the stairs he probably pitched it over behind these books." [33]
Ellsworth has stood by his original assessment of where the Mannlicher-
Carcano was found in a 1993 interview with authors Ray and Mary
LaFontaine.
Notes
21. Two Men in Dallas, an interview of Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig,
video, Alpa Productions 1976.
22. Warren Commission Report, Hearings, v. 3, p. 395.
23. Warren Commission Exhibit, 2169.
25. Warren Commission Exhibit, 3048.
29. CIA report 104-40, WC XXIV, p. 829, 831.
30. Warren Report, 546-8.
31. Warren Commission Report, p. 645-646.
32. Russell, Dick. The Man Who Knew Too Much, Carroll and Graf, 1992,
p. 568.
33. Ibid, p. 569.
David Von Pein
Simple......
A "Mauser" looks very, very similar to a "Carcano".
Case closed.
What's the next piece of already-debunked CT crap that will re-surface
for the 15,000th time?
The "Doorman Man" issue should be ready for a resurrection thread,
right Gil-Kook? It's been--what?--perhaps two weeks since somebody
tried to bring that one back from the dead.
============================
VINCE BUGLIOSI (paraphrased) -- "Is 'Mauser' sort of a generic term
for 'bolt-action rifle'?"
EUGENE BOONE -- "Yes, sir."
============================
Gil Jesus
"29. CIA report 104-40, WC XXIV, p. 829, 831."
should read:
28. WC XXIV, p. 829, 831.
29. CIA report 104-40
Gil Jesus
I'm assuming that your position is that they were all in error without
providing any evidence, rather than people were obviously pressured to
change their assessments after the fact.
I especially noticed that you didn't comment about the 7.65 shell
found in Dealey Plaza on 12/2/63.
Nor did you address the CIA document.
Walt
> Simple......
>
> A "Mauser" looks very, very similar to a "Carcano".
>
> Case closed.
>
> What's the next piece of already-debunked CT crap that will re-surface
> for the 15,000th time?
Hey LOB.... I hate to admit you're right, and you're telling the truth
on this issue. I'm sure that you know that the only person above you
on the Stupid Bastard list is Rob Crapio. He's the uncontested king of
the Stupid Bastards, but you're running a close second. And Daffy is
right behind you with his nose in yer butt..........
As I said, I hate to acknowledge that yer right about anything, but
almost nobody can be wrong all of the time....(except Crapio)
I can't understand how intelligent people can continue to cling to
the absurd idea of the TSBD rifle being a 7.65 mauser. I well aware
that this absurd story is one of the foundation blocks in the
conspiracy for many CT's and they will not give it up. I also know
that I will be attacked for agreeing with you about this
issue.....doesn't bother me...because I'm looking for the truth and
I'll accept a FACT no matter where I find it.
Sam McClung
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:02fd419e-7f21-4779...@a19g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
<excerpts>
> 3. BOONE testified in two written reports that the gun was a Mauser.
> WEITZMAN signed an affidavit the next day stating that the rifle he
> and Boone had found was a "7.65 Mauser bolt action equipped with a
> 4/18 scope
what magnification of scope was on the ciarcano?
> 4. An FBI ENVELOPE had a cover that detailed...
> "7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/1963 ...
> determined of no value and destroyed."
incredible
> 7. THE CIA produced a document on the 25th of November 1963 that
> declared " ... the description of a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the
> Italian and foreign press is in error. It was a Mauser." [29]
Seems you've combined what the 11-25-63 and 11-28-63 CIA documents
say.
11-25-63 document calls it a Mauser
11-28-63 document says:
<begin quote>
2. THE WEAPON WHICH APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN
EMPLOYED IN THIS CRIMINAL ATTACK IS A MODEL 91
RIFLE, 7.35 CALIBER, 1938 MODIFICATION."
... not a Mauser.
3. THE DESCRIPTION OF A "MANLICHER CARCANO"
RIFLE IN THE ITALIAN AND FOREIGN PRESS IS IN ERROR.
<end quote>
> But what the officers found may very well have been a Mauser
> considering what Frank Ellsworth saw in the Depository that day.
> Ellsworth was an agent of the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agency
> and was in his office not far from the Depository when he was told
> of
> the shooting. He ran to the Depository and entered the building with
> Captain Will Fritz.
craig was "standing next to weitzman, who was standing next to fritz"
when the mauser was idendified
> Ellsworth claims he found the sniper's nest on the
> sixth floor, but the "gun was not found on the same floor as the
> cartridges, but on a lower floor by a couple of city detectives... I
> think the rifle was found on the fourth floor." [32]
> Ellsworth participated in a second search
was this after a first search where craig saw mooney find the mauser?
> of the Depository after 1:30 p.m. on November 22, 1963.
>The gun that was found was an Italian Mannlicher-Carcano
the ciarcano was found in the second search?
Sam McClung
news:02fd419e-7f21-4779...@a19g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> Ellsworth...<snippage>...ran to the Depository and entered the
> building with
> Captain Will Fritz. Ellsworth claims he found the sniper's nest on
> the
> sixth floor, but the "gun was not found on the same floor as the
> cartridges, but on a lower floor by a couple of city detectives... I
> think the rifle was found on the fourth floor." [32]
> Ellsworth participated in a second search of the Depository after
> 1:30
> p.m. on November 22, 1963. The gun that was found was an Italian
> Mannlicher-Carcano hidden behind boxes near the "stairwell back in
> the
> northwest corner ...
Is Ellsworth in any of the "Alyea film" made available to the public?
Gil Jesus
>
> Is Ellsworth in any of the "Alyea film" made available to the public?
Not to my knowledge, Sam.
The preponderance of the evidence shows the following:
1. Rifles were brought into a building on the motorcade route days
before the President was scheduled to ride by in an open car.
2. Rifles were brought into the building two days AFTER the papers
announced the motorcade route.
3. The same day that men are seen on the knoll with rifles by a
passing DPD cruiser.
4. One of those rifles brought into the building was described as a
"30.06 Mauser".
5. One witness said that he saw the rifle in the hands of the gunman
before the shooting and described it as a "30.06" based on it's
appearance compared to his father-in-law's 30.06 rifle.
6. There were reports of a 7.65 Mauser being found in the building.
7. An empty 7.65 round was found in Dealey Plaza 10 days after the
assassination.
Again, we see the same theme as in other issues:
1. The witnesses never examined the evidence, so....
2. ALL of the witnesses were wrong about what they saw.
3. ALL of the documentation, including reports and sworn affidavits,
made under oath and the penalty of perjury, were wrong.
4. Anything evidence to the contrary ( in this case, the empty shell
found later ) was just a "coincidence".
All part of the "Coincidence Theory".
Not only were the police personnel inept and a bunch of bumbling
idiots, so were witnesses.
That's what the Federal Government wanted people to believe.
It seems that the only ones who got it right were the ones who were
either NOT THERE, or there and changed their minds later about what
they saw.
Many who were THERE and wouldn't change their minds never got to the
WC.
This is definitely something that the authorities should have pursued
in their investigation. They should have investigated the management
in that building for connections to JFK's enemies, not the least of
which was the LBJ crowd in Texas.
robcap...@netscape.com
> Simple......
>
> A "Mauser" looks very, very similar to a "Carcano".
>
> Case closed.
HOLD ON there Dave, who cares what they look like as the WC said the
alleged murder weapon has "Made in Italy" and CAL. 6.5" stamped on it
(confirmed by Mark Lane when he testified and was shown the rifle), so
how could ANYONE confuse the Carcano for a Mauser?
> What's the next piece of already-debunked CT crap that will re-surface
> for the 15,000th time?
You have NOT debunked anything, nor have you ever provided proof for
any of your/WC claims.
robcap...@netscape.com
> On 9 Oct, 04:52, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Simple......
>
> > A "Mauser" looks very, very similar to a "Carcano".
>
> > Case closed.
>
> > What's the next piece of already-debunked CT crap that will re-surface
> > for the 15,000th time?
>
> Hey LOB.... I hate to admit you're right, and you're telling the truth
> on this issue.
Wow, Walt is AGREEING AGAIN WITH A LNER, this is like the fifth time
in the last few weeks. Hey Walt, how about proving why Dave is right.
> I'm sure that you know that the only person above you
> on the Stupid Bastard list is Rob Crapio. He's the uncontested king of
> the Stupid Bastards, but you're running a close second. And Daffy is
> right behind you with his nose in yer butt..........
Walt is full of anger as he has been "outed", and agreeing with DVP is
NOT going to help his cause any either.
> As I said, I hate to acknowledge that yer right about anything, but
> almost nobody can be wrong all of the time....(except Crapio)
Lookie here, NOW he is using LNer style tactics in regards to my
name. Walt, you are a shill and we all know it now, why don't you
give up and start posting as what you are -- a LNer.
> I can't understand how intelligent people can continue to cling to
> the absurd idea of the TSBD rifle being a 7.65 mauser. I well aware
> that this absurd story is one of the foundation blocks in the
> conspiracy for many CT's and they will not give it up. I also know
> that I will be attacked for agreeing with you about this
> issue.....doesn't bother me...because I'm looking for the truth and
> I'll accept a FACT no matter where I find it.
Walt runs from the simple fact the alleged murder weapon was stamped
with "Made in Italy" and CAL. 6.5" on it making it IMPOSSIBLE for
anyone to confuse it with a Mauser. He is like all his fellow LNers.
Walt
wrote:
Dear Stupid Lying Bastard..... Does the letters "MADE ITALY" say
"Mannlicher Carcano"
All the "MADE ITALY" words meant was that the rifle was made in
Italy.... Unless a person was very knowledgable about guns he probably
wouldn't have known that the rifle was not a Mauser. Many old timers
referred to any bolt action rifle as a "Mauser". The rifle was a bolt
action and Seymour Weitzman who was recognized as somewhat of an
authority on guns announced that it was a Mauser .....so it became a
mauser to all of those ignorant listeners in the TSBD.
Damn!.... you are living up to your nick name, more each
day.....stupid bastard.
robcap...@netscape.com
Show me one Italian Weapon that was termed a "Mauser". Mauser is a
German/Austrian weapon, the foolish notion that all bolt-actioned
rifles were called Mausers is ridiculous, but this is all LNers like
Walt have. IF the Italians did name any of their weapons Mauser we can
move to the caliber difference.
I'm sure the poor Italian soldiers wished they did use Mausers as they
are a heck of lot better.
> All the "MADE ITALY" words meant was that the rifle was made in
> Italy.... Unless a person was very knowledgable about guns he probably
> wouldn't have known that the rifle was not a Mauser.
Fritz was a cop for like 30 years, Weitzman had a sporting goods
store, to say neither knew what a Mauser was is ridiculous. They
could have also called in an expert if they were unsure.
> Many old timers
> referred to any bolt action rifle as a "Mauser".
Really?? SO American troops called their Springfields Mausers? I have
never read this. British soldiers called their Enfields Mausers?
Soviet soldiers called their weapons Mausers? Japanese soldiers called
their weapons Mausers? Etc...
> The rifle was a bolt
> action and Seymour Weitzman who was recognized as somewhat of an
> authority on guns announced that it was a Mauser .....so it became a
> mauser to all of those ignorant listeners in the TSBD.
You CAN'T provide any proof it wasn't a Mauser though can you?
> Damn!.... you are living up to your nick name, more each
> day.....stupid bastard.
I wish I could say you are education-challenged, but the simple truth
is you are a LNer and thus by nature a liar.
Gil Jesus
wrote:
>
> > All the "MADE ITALY" words meant was that the rifle was made in
> > Italy.... Unless a person was very knowledgable about guns he probably
Since the rifle was clearly marked "6.5mm made in Italy", in the first
24 hours after the assassination, when the rifle was being described
as a "Mauser", did anyone refer to it as an ITALIAN Mauser ?
And why did they stop calling it a "Mauser" if the term was generic ?
The Mauser became Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano later on Saturday, after
the second search of the Paine home had been completed, the one WITH
the warrant.
The one where Mrs. Paine and Marina went shopping and left the cops at
the home by themselves.
And after the depository Carcano had been checked by the FBI and
Oswald's prints were not on it.
All of a sudden, it was no longer a Mauser.
For 24 hours, not only did not one single police officer ever look at
the rifle to determine what type of weapon it was, they apparently had
no interest and used a generic term instead, then put that generic
term in their police reports, knowing that it would be entered into
evidence in a criminal trial, then publicly presented to the press
(Wade) that generic term as fact, then swore to that generic term in
affidavits.....
Then they decided not to use the generic term and changed it.
C'mon already. This stretches the boundaries of a reasonable mind.
Sam McClung
> The Mauser became Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano later on Saturday,
> after
> the second search of the Paine home had been completed, the one WITH
> the warrant.
That kind of information is what you call a
to the destroyed official story (dos)
David Von Pein
>>> "Walt runs from the simple fact the alleged murder weapon was stamped with "Made in Italy" and "CAL. 6.5" on it, making it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to confuse it with a Mauser. He is like all his fellow LNers." <<<
Like I said the other day, Rob is totally WORTHLESS as a researcher.
He fails on every level, without question. And his above statement re.
the Mauser/Carcano issue is yet another. Here's why:
EDDIE BARKER (CBS NEWS) -- "What kind of gun did you think it was?"
SEYMOUR WEITZMAN -- "To my sorrow, I looked at it and it looked like a
Mauser, which I said it was. But I said the wrong one; because just at
a glance, I saw the Mauser action....and, I don't know, it just came
out as words it was a German Mauser. Which it wasn't. It's an Italian
type gun. But from a glance, it's hard to describe; and that's all I
saw, was at a glance. I was mistaken. And it was proven that my
statement was a mistake; but it was an honest mistake."
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6b2a00b13bdc81ae
=========================
JOSEPH BALL -- "In the statement that you made to the Dallas Police
Department that afternoon, you referred to the rifle as a 7.65 Mauser
bolt action?"
SEYMOUR WEITZMAN -- "In a glance, that's what it looked like."
MR. BALL -- "That's what it looked like, did you say that or someone
else say that?"
MR. WEITZMAN -- "No, I said that. I thought it was one."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/weitzman.htm
=========================
JOSEPH BALL -- "There is one question. Did you hear anybody refer to
this rifle as a Mauser that day?"
EUGENE BOONE -- "Yes, I did. And at first, not knowing what it was, I
thought it was 7.65 Mauser."
MR. BALL -- "Who referred to it as a Mauser that day?"
MR. BOONE -- "I believe Captain Fritz. He had knelt down there to look
at it, and before he removed it, not knowing what it was, he said that
is what it looks like. This is when Lieutenant Day, I believe his name
is, the I.D. man was getting ready to photograph it. We were just
discussing it back and forth. And he said it looks like a 7.65
Mauser."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/boone.htm
=========================
Let's now watch as Rob tries to run as far away as possible from the
actual WORDS that came out of the mouths of both Seymour Weitzman and
Eugene Boone that I quoted above.
I wouldn't be surprised, in fact, if Rob even accuses me of merely
inventing the words I attribute to Weitzman in the first Weitzman
quote above. But anyone who has a copy of the 1967 CBS-TV "Warren
Report" program can watch it for themselves.
For a solid year now, "Robcap" has been trying to sell the idea that
"LHO shot no one" (2007 quote from Robby The Super-Kook)....and for a
solid year he has gotten his butt trounced on every issue he's raised.
Even several conspiracy theorists here have bashed him from pillar to
post regarding many of the wholly-inane things he continues to utter
regularly. And yet Robby keeps coming back into the boxing ring for
his next thrashing. A most curious hobby indeed.
Why do kooks like Rob continue to enjoy being beaten to death on every
issue...every single time they open their electronic mouths?
The above question is one I do not have an answer for. I wish I did.
Maybe I could write a book about it.
lazu...@webtv.net
tomnln
Four DPD Officers said it was ID'd as a Mauser "in the presence of Capt.
Fritz/Lt. Day."
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d00004bc-19cf-4627...@b30g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>>> "Walt runs from the simple fact the alleged murder weapon was stamped
>>>> with "Made in Italy" and CAL. 6.5" on it making it IMPOSSIBLE for
>>>> anyone to confuse it with a Mauser. He is like all his fellow LNers."
>>>> <<<
>
> Like I said the other, Rob is totally WORTHLESS as a researcher. He
> Let's now watch as Rob tries to run as far away from the actual WORDS
> from both Seymour Weitzman's and Eugene Boone's own lips that I quoted
> above.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised, in fact, if Rob even accuses me of merely
> inventing the words I attribute to Weitzman in the first Weitzman
> quote above. But anyone who has a copy of the 1967 CBS-TV "Warren
> Report" program can watch it for themselves.
>
> For a solid year now, "Robcap" has been trying to sell the idea that
> "LHO shot no one" (2007 quote from Robby The Super-Kook)....and for a
> solid year he has gotten his butt trounced on every issue he's raised.
> Even several conspiracy theorists in this asylum known as
> alt.conspiracy.jfk have bashed him from pillar to post regarding many
> of the wholly-inane things he continues to utter regularly. And yet
> Robby keeps coming back into the ring for his next thrashing. A most
> curious hobby indeed.
>
> Why do kooks like Rob continue to enjoy being beaten to death on every
> issue...every single time they open their electronic mouths?
>
> The above question is one I do not have an answer for. I wish I did.
> Maybe I could write a book about it.
>
> Does anyone else have the answer?
Walt
Rob doesn't recognize that he's getting his ass kicked.... It is a
mystery to me how he can not realize that he's lost all credibilty
with anyone who has an ounce of sense. Barb J , Ben Holmes and me
have all tried to shake him to his senses but he simply is
unreachable. I despise the worthless squirmin maggot....Not because
he is nearly always wrong and he abbets the government by spreading
disinformation....I despise him because he is so utterly immoral...
He's a hypocrite who professes to be a Christain who would say "shit"
if someone stuck a turd in his mouth, but he'll lie and twist and
refuse to take responsiblity for his mistakes. Anybody can be wrong
from time to time so I can excuse honest mistakes....what can't abide
is his total dishonesty.
Whe he first appeared in this NG I had as much respect for him as any
other CT.....I now despise him...because he has EARNED my
scorn....
tomnln
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:4bb84b84-627a-41f7...@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
SEE WALLY RAW! ! !
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/catch_of_the_day.htm
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/wally_world.htm
tomnln
"robcap...@netscape.com" <robc...@netscape.com> wrote in message
news:de979ab1-eed1-48dc...@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
"Walt" <papakoc...@evertek.net> wrote in message
news:e35d857f-1ad9-40fa...@g61g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of "Credibility"!!!!!
When are you gonna offer Proof of your Lying Stupid Bastard Claims?>>>
Hey Walt;
You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
You never proved that Walker called Germany.
You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
You never proved the wallet was found in the owner's car.
You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gil Jesus
>
> �When are you gonna offer Proof of your Lying Stupid Bastard Claims?>>>
>
> Hey Walt;
>
> You never proved that 133-a had "Dual Sling Mounts".
> When are you gonna Prove that LHO worked for RFK???
> You never proved that Walker called Germany.
> You never proved Oswald ordered a 40 inch rifle.
> You never proved Mike Paine gave the DOD a copy of 133-a on 11/22/63.
> You never proved the wallet was found "INSIDE" the owner's car.
> You never proved the wallet was found in the owner's car.
> You never proved Michael Paine had same model rifle.
>
> You're a Warren Commission Shill! ! !
I'm still waiting for ANYONE to tell us how an empty 7.65 shell got
into Dealey Plaza and was found on 12/2/63 if there was no such rifle
on the grounds or in the building.
David Von Pein
Show us the 7.65 shell, Gil.
You can't. Because it doesn't exist....and never did.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Walt runs from the simple fact the alleged murder weapon was stamped with "Made in Italy" and "CAL. 6.5" on it, making it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to confuse it with a Mauser. He is like all his fellow LNers." <<<
>
> Like I said the other day, Rob is totally WORTHLESS as a researcher.
> He fails on every level, without question. And his above statement re.
> the Mauser/Carcano issue is yet another. Here's why:
>
> EDDIE BARKER (CBS NEWS) -- "What kind of gun did you think it was?"
>
> SEYMOUR WEITZMAN -- "To my sorrow, I looked at it and it looked like a
> Mauser, which I said it was. But I said the wrong one; because just at
> a glance, I saw the Mauser action....and, I don't know, it just came
> out as words it was a German Mauser. Which it wasn't. It's an Italian
> type gun. But from a glance, it's hard to describe; and that's all I
> saw, was at a glance. I was mistaken. And it was proven that my
> statement was a mistake; but it was an honest mistake."
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6b2a00b13bdc81ae
Yet he signed a legal affadavit the next day saying it was a
Mauser!!! Hmmm. How does Dave explain this, he doesn't. He instead
uses the oldest method in the government/authority handbook - attack
the messanger with personal attacks so no one will believe them. This
has gone on since the beginning of time.
Dave also ignores the fact that DA Wade called the weapon a Mauser on
11/23/63 at a press conference, why? If it was a Carcano why is he
calling it a Mauser a day after the shooting?
> =========================
>
> JOSEPH BALL -- "In the statement that you made to the Dallas Police
> Department that afternoon, you referred to the rifle as a 7.65 Mauser
> bolt action?"
>
> SEYMOUR WEITZMAN -- "In a glance, that's what it looked like."
>
> MR. BALL -- "That's what it looked like, did you say that or someone
> else say that?"
>
> MR. WEITZMAN -- "No, I said that. I thought it was one."
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/weitzman.htm
Why did the WC NOT publish or comment on Weitzman's affadavit if they
were persuing the truth as you claim? See if they had made reference
to the affadavit they would have to explain how "at a glance" or by a
"glimpse" he was able to describe the telescopic sight precisely, as
well as the material and the color of the sling, as well as to why he
swear to an affadivit in the first place if he was NOT really in a
position to do so due to NOT really seeing the weapon. No, it was best
to bury it.
Maybe Dave will explain all of this for us, huh? Doubt it, he will
attack me and get support from his fellow LN buddy Walt.
While he is at it he might explain why the WC was afraid to even let
Weitzman view the alleged murder weapon when he appeared before them.
Why would they be afraid to let him see the weapon when he was part of
finding it supposedly?
In addition to the telescopic sight he described the rifle in pretty
good detail for only getting a "glimpse" of it.
He said it "...was gun-metal color...blue metal...the rear portion of
the bolt was VISIBLY WORN...dark brown oak...rough wood." (VII, p.
109) (Emphasis mine)
Not bad for a "glimpse", huh?
> =========================
>
> JOSEPH BALL -- "There is one question. Did you hear anybody refer to
> this rifle as a Mauser that day?"
>
> EUGENE BOONE -- "Yes, I did. And at first, not knowing what it was, I
> thought it was 7.65 Mauser."
>
> MR. BALL -- "Who referred to it as a Mauser that day?"
>
> MR. BOONE -- "I believe Captain Fritz. He had knelt down there to look
> at it, and before he removed it, not knowing what it was, he said that
> is what it looks like. This is when Lieutenant Day, I believe his name
> is, the I.D. man was getting ready to photograph it. We were just
> discussing it back and forth. And he said it looks like a 7.65
> Mauser."
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/boone.htm
Isn't it nice of Dave to leave out the FACT that Boone, unlike
Weitzman, was shown the alleged murder weapon (Carcano) and he was
UNABLE TO IDENTIFY IT AS THE RIFLE THEY FOUND! (III, p. 294)
> =========================
>
> Let's now watch as Rob tries to run as far away as possible from the
> actual WORDS that came out of the mouths of both Seymour Weitzman and
> Eugene Boone that I quoted above.
Run??? You are the one that should RUN as you have provided NO proof
whatsoever, in fact, you obfuscate the record of what really did
happen to make it look like you are correct. You are totally
dishonest.
> I wouldn't be surprised, in fact, if Rob even accuses me of merely
> inventing the words I attribute to Weitzman in the first Weitzman
> quote above. But anyone who has a copy of the 1967 CBS-TV "Warren
> Report" program can watch it for themselves.
Why would I since the WC failed to even address the fact he signed an
affadavit based on viewing the weapon in detail, but then claimed he
only got a "glance" of it? He showed by his description of it that he
got more than a "glimpse" of it.
> For a solid year now, "Robcap" has been trying to sell the idea that
> "LHO shot no one" (2007 quote from Robby The Super-Kook)....
And for a solid year you have lied and failed to prove he did.
> and for a
> solid year he has gotten his butt trounced on every issue he's raised.
ONLY in delusional LNer minds like yours.
> Even several conspiracy theorists here have bashed him from pillar to
> post regarding many of the wholly-inane things he continues to utter
> regularly. And yet Robby keeps coming back into the boxing ring for
> his next thrashing. A most curious hobby indeed.
The ones "bashing" me are very questionable in the claim of being
CTers.
> Why do kooks like Rob continue to enjoy being beaten to death on every
> issue...every single time they open their electronic mouths?
IF this helps your self-esteem, then go ahead and think it. The ones
on here who are presenting the truth and the evidence NEVER sink to
this type of comments, only the dishonest ones with NO proof do this
stuff.
> The above question is one I do not have an answer for. I wish I did.
> Maybe I could write a book about it.
Make one up and lie about it, you are REALLY GOOD at that stuff.
robcap...@netscape.com
Uhh, maybe because I am NOT??? ONLY LNers like Walt claim this to be
the case.
> It is a
> mystery to me how he can not realize that he's lost all credibilty
> with anyone who has an ounce of sense.
Oh you mean like LNers like you? LOL!!!!
> Barb J , Ben Holmes and me
> have all tried to shake him to his senses but he simply is
> unreachable.
I don't listen to LNers as they are all dishonest. (I don't know if
Ben is one or not, but he is certainly okay with all the lies Walt
tells, but he was all over Tony for the same thing.)
> I despise the worthless squirmin maggot....Not because
> he is nearly always wrong and he abbets the government by spreading
> disinformation....
LOL!!! Walt is the one spewing WC "speak" and claiming they put out
"FACTS" and defending LNers, not me!!!! LOL!!!
> I despise him because he is so utterly immoral...
I think we see who the immoral one is, don't we. Using Jesus's name
in vain is going to make you roast like a stuffed pig.
> He's a hypocrite who professes to be a Christain who would say "shit"
> if someone stuck a turd in his mouth, but he'll lie and twist and
> refuse to take responsiblity for his mistakes.
When will you show me my lies and mistakes? You seem to be the liar,
not me.
> Anybody can be wrong
> from time to time so I can excuse honest mistakes....what can't abide
> is his total dishonesty.
You must hate yourself then!! IT shows too, that is why you are
attacking everyone else as you hate yourself.
> Whe he first appeared in this NG I had as much respect for him as any
> other CT.....I now despise him...because he has EARNED my
> scorn....
Who cares? A liar's and distorter's scorn should bother me? Please.
Isn't it funny how Walt and DVP have become quite the "item" lately? I
mean they support each other and back each other up all the time now.
David Von Pein
>>> "Isn't it funny how Walt and DVP have become quite the "item" lately? I mean they support each other and back each other up all the time now." <<<
And here we have the latest example of Robby being dead-wrong...and an
idiot, to boot.
"All the time now"???
LOL.
Next to you, Rob, Walt is the biggest evidence-mangling mega-kook on
these boards. And has been for years.
robcap...@netscape.com
Isn't it even FUNNIER hot-air Dave skipped all the points I made and
just focused on this one???
What about Boone saying the rifle shown to him (CE-139) NOT being the
same rifle they found Dave?
What about the WC ignoring and burying Weitzman's affadavit Dave?
What about Weitzman swearing to an affadavit when he only got a
"glimpse" of the rifle Dave?
What about Weitzman descriping the rifle and scope in great detail
despite only "glancing" at the rifle Dave?
I thought I was going to run according to Dave, but looky here, he is
the true MARATHON MAN!!!
Walt
wrote:
> On Oct 10, 4:56 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> "Isn't it funny how Walt and DVP have become quite the "item" lately? I mean they support each other and back each other up all the time now." <<<
>
> > And here we have the latest example of Robby being dead-wrong...and an
> > idiot, to boot.
>
> > "All the time now"???
>
> > LOL.
>
> > Next to you, Rob, Walt is the biggest evidence-mangling mega-kook on
> > these boards. And has been for years.
>
> Isn't it even FUNNIER hot-air Dave skipped all the points I made and
> just focused on this one???
>
What about Boone saying the rifle shown to him (CE-139) NOT being the
same rifle they found Dave?
Hey SB....Let me answer for my old buddy Pea Brain....
Boone didn't say CE 139 was NOT that same rifle that he'd found...He
said it looked like the same rifle.
When Boone was shown a photo (CE 514) of the rifle insitu.....he said
he couldn't be sure...
Boone said the rifle in the photo that he was being shown (The rifle
down among the boxes AFTER many other boxes had been removed) " looked
to be", "appeared to be", "seemed to be", the same the same rifle he
had found BURIED BENEATH boxes of books. He could not BE 100%
absolutely sure that it was because he could only see a small portion
of it in the photo.
What about the WC ignoring and burying Weitzman's affadavit Dave?
What about Weitzman swearing to an affadavit when he only got a
"glimpse" of the rifle Dave?
Dear SB... An affidavit does NOT necessarily state the true and
accurate facts....It is merely a written account of a witness
recording what he BELIEVES to be true.
What about Weitzman descriping the rifle and scope in great detail
despite only "glancing" at the rifle Dave?
When did Weitzman give a detailed description that included the
statement that he'd seen 7.65 Mauser stamped on the barrel. Obviously
Day statrted examining the rifle as soon as he removed it from where
it had been HIDDEN by BURYING it BENEATH boxes of books. Weitzman
could easily have seen Day dusting the rifle for prints ( He found the
smudge (palm print) at that time) and remember that it had a heavt
leather sling and other details.
There ya go Dave....Happy ta help you out
Ha.ha,ha,hee,hee,hee,hee.....ROTFLMAO.
robcap...@netscape.com
> On 11 Oct, 11:36, "robcap...@netscape.com" <robcap...@netscape.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 4:56 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> "Isn't it funny how Walt and DVP have become quite the "item" lately? I mean they support each other and back each other up all the time now." <<<
>
> > > And here we have the latest example of Robby being dead-wrong...and an
> > > idiot, to boot.
>
> > > "All the time now"???
>
> > > LOL.
>
> > > Next to you, Rob, Walt is the biggest evidence-mangling mega-kook on
> > > these boards. And has been for years.
>
> > Isn't it even FUNNIER hot-air Dave skipped all the points I made and
> > just focused on this one???
>
> What about Boone saying the rifle shown to him (CE-139) NOT being the
> same rifle they found Dave?
>
> Hey SB....Let me answer for my old buddy Pea Brain....
>
> Boone didn't say CE 139 was NOT that same rifle that he'd found...He
> said it looked like the same rifle.
But he COULDN'T POSITIVELY ID it could he? I guess Walt will play the
same game of "well it could be" despite him saying he "couldn't
positively say it was." Why did Ball NOT ask him if it was the same
rifle? Why the lame question of "does it look the same?" Why?
Because in law school you are taught NEVER to ask a question you don't
either know the answer to, or the answer is detrimental to your case.
> When Boone was shown a photo (CE 514) of the rifle insitu.....he said
> he couldn't be sure...
Right, and it seems if he was shown he same rifle it would have said
"yes it is." Walt doesn't get this is called "reasonable doubt" which
means when you CANNOT prove your claims you have planted doubt in the
jury's mind.
> Boone said the rifle in the photo that he was being shown (The rifle
> down among the boxes AFTER many other boxes had been removed) " looked
> to be", "appeared to be", "seemed to be", the same the same rifle he
> had found BURIED BENEATH boxes of books. He could not BE 100%
> absolutely sure that it was because he could only see a small portion
> of it in the photo.
Well Walt exaggerates again. Here is what Boone testified to.
Mr. BALL - I show you a rifle which is Commission Exhibit 139. Can you
tell us whether or not that looks like the rifle you saw on the floor
that day?
Mr. BOONE - It looks like the same rifle. **I have no way of being
positive.**
Mr. BALL - You never handled it?
Mr. BOONE - I did not touch the weapon at all.
Where does he say "seems to be" or "appears to be"?
Now according to the WC this is because he did not touch the rifle,
thus giving the impression he did not really look at it. But then he
goes on to answer two questions based on viewing the rifle.
Senator COOPER - Did you notice whether the rifle that you discovered
had a telescopic sight?
Mr. BOONE - Yes, it did.
Senator COOPER - Did it have a sling?
Mr. BOONE - Yes, it did. Because Captain Fritz picked it up by the
sling when he removed it from its resting place.
Wow, this is pretty good for someone who really wasn't very
interested. The other thing they ignore (LNers like Walt) is that the
WC claimed Weitzman called it a Mauser first, but here we see Boone
says it was Capt. Fritz.
Mr. BALL - There is one question. Did you hear anybody refer to this
rifle as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - Yes, I did. And at first, not knowing what it was, I
thought it was 7.65 Mauser.
Mr. BALL - Who referred to it as a Mauser that day?
Mr. BOONE - **I believe Captain Fritz.** He had knelt down there to
look at it, and before he removed it, not knowing what it was, he said
that is what it looks like. This is when Lieutenant Day, I believe his
name is, the ID man was getting ready to photograph it.
We were just discussing it back and forth. And he said it looks like a
7.65 Mauser.
> What about the WC ignoring and burying Weitzman's affadavit Dave?
>
> What about Weitzman swearing to an affadavit when he only got a
> "glimpse" of the rifle Dave?
>
> Dear SB... An affidavit does NOT necessarily state the true and
> accurate facts....It is merely a written account of a witness
> recording what he BELIEVES to be true.
Boy this guy shoots himself in the foot constantly in an effort to
keep all his lies going at once. How many times as Walt argued in
defense of Brennan that his early statements were the most accurate?
Prove Weitzman's affadavit is NOT accurate. While you are at it, and
since you are helping DVP, explain why the WC made no reference to, or
included the affadavit in their report.
> What about Weitzman descriping the rifle and scope in great detail
> despite only "glancing" at the rifle Dave?
>
> When did Weitzman give a detailed description that included the
> statement that he'd seen 7.65 Mauser stamped on the barrel. Obviously
> Day statrted examining the rifle as soon as he removed it from where
> it had been HIDDEN by BURYING it BENEATH boxes of books. Weitzman
> could easily have seen Day dusting the rifle for prints ( He found the
> smudge (palm print) at that time) and remember that it had a heavt
> leather sling and other details.
You are a coniver and a liar. I will include Weitzman's description
again so you CAN'T IGNORE it this time. This is what I wrote to Dave
yesterday.
(Quote on)
In addition to the telescopic sight he described the rifle in pretty
good detail for only getting a "glimpse" of it.
He said it "...was gun-metal color...blue metal...the rear portion of
the bolt was VISIBLY WORN...dark brown oak...rough wood." (VII, p.
109) (Emphasis mine)
Not bad for a "glimpse", huh?
(Quote off)
Now Walt, how would he see the bolt was visibly worn if he did NOT
really look at but for a glimpse?
> There ya go Dave....Happy ta help you out
All you did was help with the lies. Walt is really pathetic now as
his only comrades are his fellow LNers.
> Ha.ha,ha,hee,hee,hee,hee.....ROTFLMAO.
Spreading lies causes glee in the Cakebread house.
Walt
Dear Stupid Bastard... Do YOU know what Weitzman was referring to when
he said "the bolt was visibly worn"??
I do....but I'll bet you don't know what Weitzman saw that caused him
to make that statement.
>
> > There ya go Dave....Happy ta help you out
>
> All you did was help with the lies. Walt is really pathetic now as
> his only comrades are his fellow LNers.
>
> > Ha.ha,ha,hee,hee,hee,hee.....ROTFLMAO.
>
> Spreading lies causes glee in the Cakebread house.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
robcap...@netscape.com
Who cares??? I'm NOT here to make inferences or read people's minds
like you. The fact is the WC claimed he barely looked at the rifle
yet he describes it and the scope in FULL detail. That is what
matters and you are totally running from it.
Walt
No, I'm not running from it you little, squirmin, wigglin,
maggot......
We both know that Weitzman saw the rifle while Lt Day and Captain
Fritz were examining it.
He did try to wiggle away from his statement about it being a mauser
because he had only caught a glimpse of the rifle as it was lifted
from BENEATH the boxes of books. You should recognize that tactic
because you use it quit frequently.
Weitzman saw the rifle as it was being examined so he certainly would
have been able to describe it.