Prouty's view on Protection
Michael Kelly
and long-time assassination researcher - has said that most assassinations
are set in motion not so much by a specific plan to kill as by efforts to
remove or relax the protection around a target.
Prouty has written: "No one has to direct an assassination - it
happens. The active role is played secretly by permitting it to happen.
That was why President Kennedy was killed. He was not murdered by some
lone gunman or by some limited conspiracy, but by the breakdown of t he
protective system that should have made an assassination
impossible....Once insiders knew that he would not be protected, it was
easy to pick the day and the place....All the conspirators had to do was
let the right "mechanics" (professional assassins - perhaps the French
Corsicans?) know where Kennedy would be and when and, most importantly,
that the usual precautions would not have been made and that escape would
be facilitated. This is the greatest single clue to the assassination -
Who had the powe r to call off or reduce the usual security precautions
that are always in effect whenever a president travels? Castro did not
kill Kennedy, not did the CIA. The power source that arranged that murder
was on the inside. It had the means to reduce normal se curity and permit
the choice of a hazardous route. It also had the continuing power to
cover that crime for...years."
ciao
--
Mike
"Treason doth never prosper: What's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."
- Sir John Harrington
David Morgan
Institute for Historical Review...
Quote from the COPA speech by Prouty...
"I come from 9 generations of Americans going back to the Mayflower.
"I don't know when the uhh... Kennedys came over here from Ireland...but
the people of Massachusetts sure seemed to like him."
The assumption is that Prouty apparently does not, never has and never
will
Prouty serves on the Populist Action Committe with:
John Rarick and Robert Weems of White Citizens Councils and the KKK among
others. See Epsteins collected works. Inquest, etc.
Hotsy Totsy another bunch of Knot-Seize. They seem to be everywhere in
the JFK conspiracy cover-up. Geez, I wonder if they had anything to do
with it? Naahhhh, couldn't be. Could it?
Dave
Bruce Jonathan Schuck
about how the security was lessened specifically for Dallas
by the SS advance man.
mke...@gate.net (Michael Kelly) writes:
>ciao
>--
>Mike
> - Sir John Harrington
--
>From: 6489mc...@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams)
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
>Date: 15 Nov 1994 22:44:44 GMT
>Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
>
>Let's all make this newsgroup as useless as possible.
Ron Davis
Morgan) writes:
No matter what Prouty's political orientation may have been, or is
today, the fact remains that SS security was in fact reduced on Nov 22
'63 and the SS did illegally steal the best evidence in the case. So
the implied question that Prouty unfortunately does not spell out is a
good one, namely, what is the chain of command from the Dallas detail on
up the line, and who was responsible for the security stripping,
inappropriate last minute detour, inappropriate brake action, and best
evidence theft? And what is the connection between the SS controllers
and the Riflemen controllers?
One of the interesting things about the Secret Service is that
organizationally it is placed under the Treasury Department, not the
White House. There is a White House Detail, to be sure, but the chain
of command goes into the Treasury Department before it gets back to the
President himself. Can anyone spell out the chain of command in detail,
and did JFK have a secret beef with the Treasury Dept which would
explain their complicity in the crime, if in fact they were involved?
Ron
Michael Kelly
: Sorry to tell you but Prouty is a White Supremacist who works for the
: Institute for Historical Review...
Dave, your bullshit is really getting boring. I deem you NWR.
bye
: Dave
:
--
Mike
"To commit the perfect crime, you don't have to be intelligent,
just in charge of the investigation that follows."
David Morgan
The world's largest repository of Holocaust Denial materials and
articles
in machine readable format, to the best of my knowledge, is available
from:
kmc...@oneb.almanac.bc.ca in British Columbia, Canada
Just send an E-mail message to: list...@oneb.almanac.bc.ca with
the keyword "get INDEX" in the body of the message to retrieve the Index
of Articles by automated E-mail.
To retrieve subsequent articles send an E-mail message with the
following
sample syntax: (no real files meet these filespecs)
get denial/germany/writers david.irving
get holocaust/ihr/populist carto.01
get holocaust/prouty/denial mccalden.david
The entire text of the articles will be returned to you.
For the role of L. Fletcher Prouty with the IHR and the Liberty Lobby, and
the Populist Party Action Committee, David Duke, Bo Gritz, and company,
I would particularly refer you to several articles by Chip Bertlet
titled:
"Right Woos Left" from Political Research Associates which are available
from that board.
Of the 1,000 plus articles listed there on the Institute for Hysterical
Revisionism, rather the Institute for Historical Review, Prouty appears
at
least a dozen times in various citations by various well respected
authors
and researchers. His invitation to speak at the opening of the
Holocaust
Museum was apparently meant as "poetic irony of the first magnitude". He
declined to attend the opening or to face his many critics on this
subject
in an open and honest debate forum. That was exactly the response
expected.
After you have sampled some or all of the relevant articles, I think you
will both be a much better position to offer "well reasoned" and
qualified
"intelligent" responses to my previously posted comments on Prouty and Co.
There is a new line of arguments that has popularly come to be known as
"JFK Assassination Revisionism" which is typified by the
Lane/Carto/Prouty
school of.... school of.... school of... inflammatory argumentation,
yeah, that's the right word.
When you realize that the Weems-Rarick crowds and the Prouty-Gritz crowds
share the same philosophies as the David Duke crowds you will begin to
understand the concept of "JFK Assn Revisionism" which is merely an
offshoot
of the illogical IHR reasoning process. It is just possible that their
predecessors, associates and cronies carried out BOTH the Holocaust AND
the JFK assassination and they have been assigned the task of
orchestrating
the entire cover-up for BOTH activities. Did THAT ever occur to you?
Why won't the Lane/Prouty crowd investigate these Liberty Lobby affiliates
or compatriots and fellow travelers? The National States Rights Party,
The
Congress of Freedom, The Constitution Party of the USA, The Christian
Identity Movement, Right Magazine, American Mercury, Human Events, etc.,
etc.
Can either of you even venture a logical or just well reasoned
guesstimate?
Then we shall see if your accusations regarding the "non-winking single
brown-eye that never sees the daylight" should be more exactly attributed
to both of you and your very narrow and limited scopes of awareness
regarding these very emotionally charged topics where logic is usually
abandoned by those who are unable to plumb the depths of the subtle
interrelationships.
Happy New Year and please enjoy these new concepts without resorting to
name-calling and inflammatory rhetoric. I thought you were above all that.
This Hysterical Revisionism theme and the linkage to Nazism are
absolutely
the KEYS to the entire JFK hit. Be patient and you shall be rewarded.
Michael Kelly
: Thanks for the following....it sure stands out when you read
: about how the security was lessened specifically for Dallas
: by the SS advance man.
Thanks for your comment Bruce. After reading the stuff you put up, I
would have to say that the ubiquitous spooks in the federal government are
what makes such a wide-ranging action possible. The doubters say that the
FBI, Treasury, Dallas PD, CIA and 50 other organizations would have to be
in on the conspiracy for everything involved in the murder and coverup to
take place, but I say all you need are a few spooks in key positions
inside each agency.
In another thread I already went into how the spooks got dispersed
throughout the government when OSS disbanded. If you read about
"Operation Yellow Fruit" which was a military "counter-terrorism"
outfit, very hush hush, you see that guys in this outfit with a
rank of maybe captain were going onto military bases and commandeereing
aircraft. When the general in charge of the base demanded to know
what was going on, the captain arrogantly told him to call a number
at the Pentagon. After that it was all "what else can I do for you?"
from the general.
I believe this was described in the book _Blank Check_ by Tim Weiner
but I don't have it here to check for you.(No pun intended<g>.)
It would be much more comfortable to continue to believe in our free
system, and lawyers like Perry Mason who never ask how you are set for
cash when you get in trouble, and Ben Casey who would take on the hospital
administration for every patient that got wheeled in on a gurney(even if
the person was a "street person" without any assets), and police who will
routinely risk their lives to save yours, and local politicians who will
work without pay just out of "dedication" to their fellows and on and
on... but, unfortunately, the world is a cold-ass place where thousands
are sent to die without a second thought. It's hard to come to grips with
such things. Maybe these ideas would be good grist for a "psychological
profile" of why, contrary to all the evidence, some people cling to the
fiction of the Lone Nut scenario. To follow the evidence to its logical
conclusion would mean losing one's precious illusions about the sanctity
of life.
ciao
[snip]
: >ciao
: >--
: >Mike
: >"Treason doth never prosper: What's the reason?
: > For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."
: > - Sir John Harrington
: --
: >From: 6489mc...@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams)
: >Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
: >Date: 15 Nov 1994 22:44:44 GMT
: >Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
: >
: >Let's all make this newsgroup as useless as possible.
--
Lisa Pease
: Sorry to tell you but Prouty is a White Supremacist who works for the
: Institute for Historical Review...
: Quote from the COPA speech by Prouty...
: "I come from 9 generations of Americans going back to the Mayflower.
Well, heck. Shiver me timbers.
That PROVES he's a racist! hahahaha! NOT.
Get a grip, boy.
: "I don't know when the uhh... Kennedys came over here from Ireland...but
: the people of Massachusetts sure seemed to like him."
oooooh another big hit. not.
: The assumption is that Prouty apparently does not, never has and never
: will
what? Get some grammar, man - that sentence has no ending!
: Prouty serves on the Populist Action Committe with:
Proof that he serves? Proof that he knows about the connections of the
people you mention below? Or gosh - are we going to have to take YOUR
word for it? hahaha!
: John Rarick and Robert Weems of White Citizens Councils and the KKK among
: others. See Epsteins collected works. Inquest, etc.
: Hotsy Totsy another bunch of Knot-Seize. They seem to be everywhere in
: the JFK conspiracy cover-up. Geez, I wonder if they had anything to do
: with it? Naahhhh, couldn't be. Could it?
The real nazi connections are from the CIA - the Dulles bros bringing
nazis over after the war as part of Operation Paperclip, reinstating the
Gehlen Org as an anti-communist intelligence network, helping them avoid
war crimes. Yes, there are terrible people who assisted the nazis greatly
during and after the war. In fact - you might ask what Gerald Posner was
doing writing about Mengele.
But quit this garbage without a shred of proof accusing the terribly
sympathetic man Col. Fletcher Prouty. We don't buy it now, and you
haven't given any reason to believe you even HAVE evidence against him.
: Dave
:
--
Lisa Pease
----------
I think that the idea that our government would be complicit, not just in
the killing, but in this very cynical effort to lie about it, and hide
about it, and pretend it didn't happen, and attack those who find out that
it did happen, is in many ways almost worse. It is something that, as a
democracy, we can't really allow to happen.
- Investigative Journalist Robert Parry on the Iran Contra conspiracy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My ftp site has been moved! Now you type "cd pub/lp/lpease" to get there.
To get there, at your internet prompt type: ftp ftp.netcom.com
Login as "anonymous" and enter anything for your password. Then type
cd pub/lp/lpease. Type "ls" to list files. Type "get" to transfer files
from the ftp site to your personal site. Enjoy! Get index.read.me 1st!
David Morgan
The views of Leroy Fletcher Prouty on any topic relating to the JFK
assassination from this point forward are hereby declared suspect,
tainted, distorted and biased. His apparent vitriolic hatred for
John F. Kennedy, which he could not hide behind the sneer on his
veneer during his COPA appearance, hereby renders his views, comments
and opinions on the matter of the JFK conspiracy worthless and not
worth responding to from this point forward to perpetuity.
Here is just ONE of the quotes from Prouty that were voiced at the
COPA conference on October 7-10, 1994 at the Sheraton Washington in
Washington, D.C.
"I come from 9 generations of Americans who can be traced all the way
back to the Mayflower. I don't know when the uhhh... Kennedys came
over here from Ireland, BUT THE PEOPLE OF MASSACHUSETTS SURE SEEMED TO
LIKE HIM." [The capitalized emphasis is mine.]
I guess the natural extension of this is that Prouty hated his guts.
This is not the first time that Prouty was caught in anti-Kennedy or
anti-Irish, anti-minority or anti-Semitic statements for that matter.
I will be posting additional quotes from Prouty voiced on tape and
on mike as soon as my COPA order is filled. I just hope that this
comment was not inadvertently removed from the final edited version
because I know of two people who made audio tapes of the entire set
of proceedings and we do plan to compare the two sets of tapes.
Prouty's views on the so-called removal of Secret Service protection
have already been debunked and villified by many serious researchers
and I do not plan to waste any more time on this subject. There is
nothing sinister or conspiratorial involved with the Secret Service
Protection arguments. Do not let him pull a COPA Rope-a Dope-a on
you. He should not rope-some-dopes any more. That is his entire
intention. But you are apparently much too smart for any of that.
The distortions that Prouty has previously voiced about how his visit
to "consult with several highly placed penguins from the Penguin-gon"
in Antarctica are completely vapid and ludicrous. The visit allegedly
made him notice how an Australian newspaper already had an article
prepared about Lee Harvey Oswald for publication. This crock of crap
has already been debunked in previous issues of The Third Decade and
in presentations made at ASK and in Boston-1993. There is nothing
sinister here and there is no reason to get your conspiratorial or
paranoid knee-jerk reaction juices flowing here either. Ask Jim Marrs.
Also on video and audio tape, Mark Lane, the recent son-in-law of the
primus dominus of the Liberty Lobby, Willis Allison Carto, voiced four
separate and distinct distortions of the truth in one 90-second period
which may also be viewed by anyone who buys the tapes from COPA:
1) "The Liberty Lobby is just a newspaper."
This is a total lie: It is a "Network of Hate", according to the
brochure
of the same title printed by the Anti-Defamation League. It is a
cesspool
type repository for some of the most vitriolic anti-Semites, racists
and
hate mongerers, including neo-Nazis from Sons of Liberty in Baton Rouge,
LA, that was ever devised in the entire history of mancruel.
When asked if Mark Lane and Liberty Lobby would reciprocate by "releasing
the files" of the National States Rights Party, The Constitution Party
and the Congress of Freedom which are ALL current or former affiliates
or subsidiaries of The Liberty Lobby, Mark Lane re-lied:
2) "The Liberty Lobby HAS NO FILES." [The emphasis is mine]
Another total lie. As a newspaper, it would maintain reams and reams
of files, both electronic and in printed format. Many people have seen
these files deep within the bowels of the offices of the Liberty Lobby.
Where have we heard this crock of crap before? "There are no files."
3) "The American Security Council had nothing to do with Liberty Lobby.
"
Another distortion and complete prevarication. Their memberships and
their speakers platforms were replete with evidence of cross-pollination
4) "I was not even their General Counsel. I was just their lawyer."
Another complete lie. He was their General Counsel as well as their
lawyer and now he is apparently much more. He married the daughter
of Willis Allison Carto according to Steve Hagar, Editor in Chief of
a magazine that wrote an article exposing several of the Liberty Lobby
network of haters like Charles A. Willoughby, William Potter Gale and
their associates within the Christian Identity Movement and the White
Aryan Resistance (WAR) neo-Nazi movement. See November 1993 issue of High
Times Magazine or write for a reprint of that article.
More to come later...
David Morgan
You should at least tell Lisa Pease that the quote on Prouty is accurate.
What did Prouty's parents do for Joe Kennedy in Britain and when? This
is really fascinating.
Dave
stev...@delphi.com
>"I come from 9 generations of Americans who can be traced all the way
>back to the Mayflower. I don't know when the uhhh... Kennedys came
>over here from Ireland, BUT THE PEOPLE OF MASSACHUSETTS SURE SEEMED TO
>LIKE HIM." [The capitalized emphasis is mine.]
>
>I guess the natural extension of this is that Prouty hated his guts.
I think you need to get your facts straight. Prouty did not and does
not HATE JFK or the Kennedy family.
Were you at COPA? Have you ever met or talked to Prouty?
You are WAY off base here and have totally misunderstood and/or
distorted Prouty's point.
>This is not the first time that Prouty was caught in anti-Kennedy or
>anti-Irish, anti-minority or anti-Semitic statements for that matter.
reason he brought up the anecdote on the people in Mass. liking JFK
is because 1) it was true and 2) his family members actually worked
for the senior Kennedy when they were in England.
Prouty's time was very limited and I am afraid his point on this did
not come across well. I have interviewed him and have him on video
tape alluding to this same thought in reference to how he and the
Kennedys crossed paths before he ever dreamed of ending up in
DC with JFK as President.
You've missed his point completely, unfortunately, and are ranting
and raving about things that this man never implied.
>in Antarctica are completely vapid and ludicrous. The visit allegedly
>made him notice how an Australian newspaper already had an article
>prepared about Lee Harvey Oswald for publication. This crock of crap
>has already been debunked in previous issues of The Third Decade and
>in presentations made at ASK and in Boston-1993. There is nothing
>sinister here and there is no reason to get your conspiratorial or
>paranoid knee-jerk reaction juices flowing here either. Ask Jim Marrs.
You really are poorly informed to be posting such accusations.
Please get your facts straight.
>Also on video and audio tape, Mark Lane, the recent son-in-law of the
>primus dominus of the Liberty Lobby, Willis Allison Carto, voiced four
>separate and distinct distortions of the truth in one 90-second period
>which may also be viewed by anyone who buys the tapes from COPA:
Are you fronting for McLoughlin?
>the files" of the National States Rights Party, The Constitution Party
>and the Congress of Freedom which are ALL current or former affiliates
>or subsidiaries of The Liberty Lobby, Mark Lane re-lied:
>
>2) "The Liberty Lobby HAS NO FILES." [The emphasis is mine]
>Another total lie. As a newspaper, it would maintain reams and reams
>of files, both electronic and in printed format. Many people have seen
>these files deep within the bowels of the offices of the Liberty Lobby.
>Where have we heard this crock of crap before? "There are no files."
>3) "The American Security Council had nothing to do with Liberty Lobby.
form. Lane slam-dunked the idiot who pressed him on a nonsensical
point on this and I hope you are not the idiot I am thinking of.
>4) "I was not even their General Counsel. I was just their lawyer."
>Another complete lie. He was their General Counsel as well as their
>lawyer and now he is apparently much more. He married the daughter
>of Willis Allison Carto according to Steve Hagar, Editor in Chief of
>a magazine that wrote an article exposing several of the Liberty Lobby
>network of haters like Charles A. Willoughby, William Potter Gale and
>their associates within the Christian Identity Movement and the White
>Aryan Resistance (WAR) neo-Nazi movement. See November 1993 issue of High
>Times Magazine or write for a reprint of that article.
Always trying to drag in the radical right and neo-nazis.
Don't you realize how badly you discredit yourself when you continually
harp on this at every opportunity? Why do you think so few people
showed up at your/McLoughlin's presentation?
STEVE
Lisa Pease
: Steve,
: You should at least tell Lisa Pease that the quote on Prouty is accurate.
Duh, David - I was there. The quote means nothing! :) Everyone here sees
that - do you have a brain tumor or something that prohibits you from
recognizing this rather simple point?
Michael Kelly
: David Morgan <UEP...@prodigy.com> writes:
:
: >What did Prouty's parents do for Joe Kennedy in Britain and when? This
: >is really fascinating.
:
: Dave,
:
: It wasn't Prouty's parents. If you are sincerely interested, I will re-
: view the taped interview I had with him and post the info.
:
: But first, let me ask you this:
:
: Are you McLoughlin? Why do you use so many aliases? Are you fearful
: of honest research? I have never come across any reason for using
: so many aliases, and if you have valid material to offer, I would
: think you would be proud to do so and not "hide" behind an alias.
:
: Thanks.
:
:
Yeah, I know what you mean Steve. When a guy suggests we all engage
in a "buff circle jerk" mimmicking Rathman, why would he want to
use an alias? *Beats* me! Ha Ha!!
ciao
stev...@delphi.com
>What did Prouty's parents do for Joe Kennedy in Britain and when? This
>is really fascinating.
k...@kbbs.com
UEP...@prodigy.com writes:
Sorry to tell you but Prouty is a White Supremacist who works for the
Institute for Historical Review...
Quote from the COPA speech by Prouty...
"I come from 9 generations of Americans going back to the Mayflower.
"I don't know when the uhh... Kennedys came over here from Ireland...but
the people of Massachusetts sure seemed to like him."
The assumption is that Prouty apparently does not, never has and never
will. [Etc.]
......................
What a joke. This is your idea of an argument? My assumption is that
you don't have the slightest idea of what a coherent argument is, but
unlike you, I'm at least supplying some evidence for my statement.
--
[*] Message Origin: KBBS Los Angeles! 74 Access Lines [*]
[*] (818) 886-0872 or Telnet 204.96.25.7 in...@kbbs.com [*]
Michael Kelly
: UEP...@prodigy.com writes:
: Sorry to tell you but Prouty is a White Supremacist who works for the
: Institute for Historical Review...
: Quote from the COPA speech by Prouty...
: "I come from 9 generations of Americans going back to the Mayflower.
: "I don't know when the uhh... Kennedys came over here from Ireland...but
: the people of Massachusetts sure seemed to like him."
: The assumption is that Prouty apparently does not, never has and never
: will. [Etc.]
: ......................
: What a joke. This is your idea of an argument? My assumption is that
: you don't have the slightest idea of what a coherent argument is, but
: unlike you, I'm at least supplying some evidence for my statement.
PMJI, but they don't *do* coherent arguments, only coherent theories! :-7
ciao
: --
: [*] Message Origin: KBBS Los Angeles! 74 Access Lines [*]
: [*] (818) 886-0872 or Telnet 204.96.25.7 in...@kbbs.com [*]