Provable Lies of the Warren Commission (#4)
Ben Holmes
Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only
purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message
threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.
These trolls include (but are not limited to):
Baldoni
Balds...@gmail.com
Bigdog
Bill
Brokedad
Bud
Burlyguard
Cdddraftsman
Chuck Schuyler
David Von Pein
Grizzlie Antagonist
Justme1952
JGL
Marty Baughman
Miss Rita
Muc...@Gmail.com
Sam Brown
Steve sahi...@yahoo.com
Tara Lachat
Tims...@Gmail.com
Todd W. Vaughan
YoHarvey
The names change from time to time as they create new aliases, but they can be
recognized by their refusal to address the evidence, and their frequent use of
ad hominem attacks.
Please beware when seeing their responses, and note that they will simply deny
the facts I mention, demand citations that I've provided before, or simply run
with insults. These trolls are only good material for the killfiles.
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"The significance of Givens' observation that Oswald was carrying his clipboard
became apparent on December 2, 1963, when an employee, Frankie Kaiser, found a
clipboard hidden by book cartons in the northwest corner of the sixth floor at
the west wall a few feet from where the rifle had been found." (WCR 143)
Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's
edition.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the plain open
boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just noticed it
laying over there.
Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?
Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or 6 inches,
something like that.
Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Were there boxes between the stairway and the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. No, you see, here's---let me see just a second---here's the stairs
right here, and we went down this way and here's the stairs this way going up
and here's the and it was laying fight in here by the cards--there are about
four or five cards, I guess, running in front of it--just laying between the
part you go down and the part you go up.
Mr. BALL. You mean laying between the stairway up and the stairway down?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, right there in the corner. (6H 343)
BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the location
of the three cartridges?
Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes longer--after
Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there, Captain Fritz picked up the
cartridges, began to examine them, of course I left that particular area. By
that time there was a number of officers up there. The floor was covered with
officers. And we were searching, trying to find the weapon at that time. (3H
289)
The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the many
policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a
clipboard that Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all.
The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an entire working week went by before it
was "discovered". The Warren Commission is caught in an obvious lie here... is
there any LNT'ers that will simply admit this?
--
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Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
taral...@mailinator.com
> **********************************************************************
> Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only
> purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message
> threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.
>
> These trolls include (but are not limited to):
>
> Baldoni
> Bigdog
> Bill
> Brokedad
> Bud
> Burlyguard
> Cdddraftsman
> Chuck Schuyler
> David Von Pein
> Grizzlie Antagonist
> Justme1952
> JGL
> Marty Baughman
> Miss Rita
> Sam Brown
> Steve sahist...@yahoo.com
> Tara Lachat
> Timst...@Gmail.com
I have noticed that on virtually every single post you write, you are
calling other posters liars. And yet, you have been caught fibbing
quite a bit, have you not Mr. Holmes? An example. You posted the
following:
> > And, of course, we have Carolyn Arnold, who reports seeing LHO around 12:15 in
> > the 2nd floor lunchroom. (CD 5 pg 41)
The above comment is not totally true Mr. Holmes, now is it? Tell the
forum Mr. Holmes, are you simply a fabricator of information OR, are
you seemingly misinformed on virtually everything you post?
Mr. Arnold made various statements to various people. Are you aware
of this? If not, perhaps you are a bit of an incompetent poster and
researcher OR, you are deliberately misleading this forum. Which is
it Mr. Holmes? Inquiring minds want to know.
The multiple statements of Mrs. Arnold:
The principle witness who conspiracy theorists rely on to establish an
alibi for Oswald just prior to the shootings is Carolyn Arnold. Mrs.
Arnold reportedly saw Oswald on one of the lower floors of the
Depository at about the same time Dealey Plaza witness Arnold Rowland
saw a man with a gun in a sixth-floor window, which of course suggests
that someone other than Oswald was waiting to shoot the president.
The 20 year old Mrs. Arnold was employed as a secretary at the Book
Depository Building. She came into prominence for the first time in
1978, fifteen years after the assassination, when she told the Dallas
Morning News that around 12:25 p.m. on the day of the assassination,
five minutes before the shooting, she left the building to watch the
motorcade. On her way out, she claims she saw Oswald in the second-
floor lunchroom. "I do not recall that was doing anything," she
said. "I just recall that he was sitting there..........in one of the
booth seats on the right hand side of the room as you go in. He was
alone as usual and appeared to be having lunch...I recognized him
clearly." That same month, Arnold told author Anthony Summers that
"she went into the lunchroom on the second floor for a moment" (she
was pregnant at the time and had a craving for a glass of water) and
saw Oswald there, alone and having lunch. Instead of the 12:25 p.m.
time she had given the Dallas Morning News, she told Summers she saw
Oswald "about a quarter of an hour before the assassination...about
12:15 p.m. It may have been slightly later. Why, fifteen years after
an alleged incident, Arnold saw fit to give, within the same month,
different times to separate interviewers is not known. But that is
the least of the problems with Arnold's story.
Not only is Arnold's 1978 story diametrically opposed to what Oswald
told police (he claimed he ate lunch on the FIRST floor, not the
second floor as Arnold said, then went to the second to get a coke),
but when she was interviewed by the FBI just four days after the
assassination, she said she saw Oswald for a few minutes before 12:15
p.m, and it wasn't in the second-floor lunchroom at all. The FBI
report reads, "as she was standing in front of the building, she
stated sh thought she caught a fleeting glimpse of Lee Harvey Oswald
standing in the hallway between the front door and the double doors
leading to the warehouse, located on the FIRST floor. She could not
be sure that this was Oswald, but she felt it was. So in 1963, she
thinks she saw Oswald on the first floor, and in 1978 she now KNOWS
she saw him on the second floor. And in 1963 Oswald was standing,
whereas in 1978 he was sitting down having lunch.
Additionally destructive of Mrs. Arnold's 15 year old claim, Mrs.
Pauline Sanders, a fifty-five year old clerk-accountant at the
depository, reported leaving the second-floor lunchroom at
"approximately 12:20 p.m." to await the presidents arrival in front of
the building. So here we have an employee who was actually in the
lunchroom at the precise time that Mrs. Arnold claimed to have seen
Oswald eating his lunch. Yet, Mrs. Sanders told the FBI that although
she knew Oswald by sight, she did not see him "at any time" on
November 22, 1963. Obviously, there is no reason or basis to give
credibility at all to the statement Carolyn Arnold made fifteen years
after the assassination.
Mr Holmes demonstrates being totally ignorant of the facts or
deliberately lying to this forum. And yet, Mr. Holmes calls EVERYBODY
else a liar. How embarrassing.
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/42d7aced08937aff
>>> "The WC simply lied again, when trying to disguise the fact that the many policemen that swamped the sixth floor (See Mooney's statement) couldn't find a clipboard that [Frankie] Kaiser clearly states was in plain sight, and not hidden at all. The clipboard was *NOT* hidden - and an entire working week went by before it was "discovered". The Warren Commission is caught in an obvious lie here." <<<
Ben "King Of Chaff" Holmes does it again! Is there no end to his
silliness? At this point, I'd wager there is not.
Anyway, Lee Harvey Oswald's clipboard, discovered by Frankie Kaiser on
the sixth floor of the Book Depository on or around 12/2/63, was
certainly "hidden" well enough from everyone's view (including the
police) so that nobody noticed it (or cared about picking it up) for
about ten days after Oswald left it where he left it on November 22nd.
But Kook Holmes wants to (once again) paint the Warren Commission as a
band of evil "liars" when the Commission used the word "hidden" on
page #143 of the Warren Report:
WR; Page 143:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
Bottom Line -- What difference does it really make if the clipboard
had actually been "hidden" from view or not?
The main point is: Oswald's clipboard (with unfilled book orders on
it, dated November 22, 1963) was discovered on the same floor from
which President Kennedy was killed by an assassin, and the same floor
where Lee Oswald was seen (with his clipboard in hand) by Charles
Givens approximately a half-hour before JFK was murdered from that
very same sixth floor.
And that clipboard was found just a few feet from where Oswald's
Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was found on 11/22/63 (with Oswald's prints
being found on the weapon).
So, whether Oswald actually attempted to "hide" the clipboard or not
on November 22nd is relatively an insignificant matter.
At the rate he's digging up these meaningless items to place in his
subjective list of "Warren Commission Lies", I'm fairly confident that
Ben Holmes will be adding any and all of the Warren Commission's
spelling and grammar errors to his "lies" list in the near future.
MORE "CLIPBOARD" TALK HERE:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/679eb16f02238b52
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RELATED LINKS:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/kaiser.htm
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3ea5799074a658d0
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/63112cee0bb141fc