Easiest Thing In The World Debunking bugliosi
lazu...@webtv.net
Bugliosi? SM Holland or Buglosi? James Simmons or Bugliosi? Richard todd
or Bugliosi? JC Price or Bugliosi...on an on an on...
cdddraftsman
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Todd W. Vaughan
Jean Hill?
Good Lord.
One has only to follow the evolution of her story to see that in later
years Jean Hill began to lie about what she saw..
Hill is on camera less than two hours after the assassination saying
she did not see the shooter. She was directly asked if she saw him and
she said "No."
She testified to the same thing, under oath to God and at penalty of
perjury mind you, before representatives of the Warren Commission in
1964.
Years later, in the late 1980's, she began claiming that she saw a
puff of smoke on the knoll.
Not to long after that she began claiming she saw "movement" behind
the fence.
Finally she began claiming she saw a man firing a rifle from over the
top of the fence.
Jean Hill is a liar.
RICLAND
Continue.
He mentioned five other witnesses.
ricland
--
Ricland:
Reclaiming History ...???
The Rebuttal to Bugliosi's JFK Assassination Book
http://jfkhit.com
Todd W. Vaughan
Perry saw a small wound in the throat and thought it could have been
an entry wound. At one time he said as much. But that does not make it
so. ER doctors are demonstrably often wrong on determining entry/exit
wounds.
Holland saw smoke on the knoll by the fence. But what did he find when
he got there? Cigarette butts.
Simons (who I interviewed in September of 1979) the same.
Who is "Richard todd".
JC Price saw a man running. Lots of people were running.
Where's the beef here?
David Von Pein
Damn straight, Todd.
Propping up Jean Hill FIRST on that list is enough to cause a literal
riot of laughter the world over!
I love the Bugliosi bashfest PRIOR to the book ever streeting. It's a
howl.
Yes, I've done the same thing in a reverse pre-praising fashion (for
years now, I'll admit). But...somehow...it just doesn't seem as
"wrong" as the type of anti-VB posts we're getting from the Bug-
Bashers here...who seem to now be INVENTING new ideas and new reasons
to start up VB-hating threads. Very interesting.
And Jean Hill????
Holy Freakin' Mackerel indeed!!
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jhill.htm
Plus: I have a built-in evidence-based reason to know that my VB pre-
praising is justified. That reason being.....
LEE H. OSWALD WAS THE LONE ASSASSIN ON NOV. 22.
~Mark VII~
tomnln
I didn't know that Vincent Bugloisi was a Truck Driver.
WHO is tom lowery?>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/tom_lowery.htm
"cdddraftsman" <cdddra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178227362.4...@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
ALL in his own words.
"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178227720....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
saw
at least one shot dome from there.
WHO is toad vaughan?>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/todd_vaughan.htm
Proven liar all in his own words.
"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1178229098....@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
lazu...@webtv.net
she was corroborated by all of the others I mentioned and many more.
David Von Pein
No...she wasn't.
~Yawn~
lazu...@webtv.net
you corroborated by, other than fellow lone-nut lame-brains?
David Von Pein
Is her "I saw a man shooting at the President" claim (from later
years) also corroborated by other witnesses?
In point of fact, Hill's claims aren't corroborated by a lick of
physical evidence. Zero. And everybody knows it.
Sure, many witnesses said they heard shots coming from the general
Knoll area. But the key there (which CTers will ignore until the day
they succumb to CT disease) is that a mere FIVE of those many
witnesses
said they heard ANY shots at all from behind (i.e., the TSBD).
Which, in effect, means they were WRONG. Period. Even CTers have no
choice but to admit that almost EVERY "Knoll Shots" witness was dead-
wrong when it came to getting the shooting scenario precisely correct
(per CT accounts, that is).
I can't think of a single "Knoll" witness who got it exactly right
(again, per the CT fairy-tale version of events that includes at least
4 shots, with some coming from the front & some from behind).
Perhaps S.M. Holland got it exactly right (per CTers). But who else?
Certainly not Jean Hill. She's not a "2-directional" witness.
It's funny how CTers will jump to the aid of Jean Hill, even when
those CTers know she's full of shit about a lot of stuff -- "dog in
the limo"; "I saw Jack Ruby running on the Knoll"; "I saw a man shoot
the President".
But as long as she can prop up the kook fantasies, she's a GOOD
WITNESS. Right?
It's interesting, in a somewhat similar (but reversed) fashion what
the rabid "Anybody But Oswald" CTers will do to poor Helen Markham
too. She's looked upon as a perfect "timeline" witness, via her to-
the-
minute "1:06 to 1:07" testimony. (And, btw, notice how the CTers NEVER
make note of the LATER "1:07" time that Markham mentioned in her WC
account; it's always FIXED at "1:06" per the kooks...to make it better
for the ABO members.)
But when it comes to accepting other parts of her testimony (like her
positive IDing of Oswald as Tippit's murderer), CTers have to consider
her to be a total boob, fruitcake, hysterical and unreliable...etc.
But, that's what a CTer's world is mostly made up of -- piecemeal,
isolated, unconnectable, incoherent guesswork.
David Von Pein
A "Giving Credit Where Credit Is Due" remark:
I want to give credit to Bud for pointing out, in previous posts of
his, the hypocritical nature of the CTers re. Helen Markham.
But, once again, I'm sure Bud's wealth of CS&L whizzed right by the
kooks.
~sigh~
lazu...@webtv.net
from the grassy knoll- let me try this again- Jean Hill11-22-63 said
there was a shot from the grassy knoll and 4 to six shots right? Bill
Newman said the shots came from" up on the hill" the GK area 11-22-63
right? Marilyn Sitzman told Dallas reporter Payne " he was shot between
the temple and ear 11-22-63- Maybe the best witness of all to a GK
shooter was J.C. Price on top of the PO across the streets and he was
adamant a shot came from behind the picket fence -SM hollnd on the
overpass said the same and was corroborated by at least 3 of his
co-workers, Brehm & Altgens initial impressions documented are again the
same- these were the closest witnesses if that isn't hard evidence along
with the Parkland Doctors you know where you can go...
David Von Pein
Some "ass" with a little common sense probably. (And somebody with a
knowledge of the bulk of the "LN" evidence in this case, too.)
>>> "Let me try this again..." <<<
Please do. I like to watch a fish squirm and flop around on the deck
after he's been reeled in.
>>> "Jean Hill {on} 11-22-63 said there was a shot from the grassy knoll and 4 to six shots." <<<
And the higher her shot number soars to, the more WRONG she positively
is when she claimed that EVERY SHOT came from the Grassy Knoll.
Or do you now want to purport that SIX shots DID come from the Grassy
Knoll (in order to make Mrs. Hill 100% correct), while ZERO shots came
from the Texas School Book Depository?
You surely don't want to go down that rocky road, do you?
Via Hill's WC testimony:
JEAN HILL -- "At that time I didn't realize that the shots were coming
from the building. I frankly thought they were coming from the knoll."
ARLEN SPECTER -- "Why did you think they were coming from the knoll?"
HILL -- "That was just my idea where they were coming from."
~~~~~
SPECTER -- "Did you have a conscious impression of the source of the
first shot that you heard, that is, where it came from?"
HILL -- "Well, evidently I didn't because the only conscious
recollection I have of that---I mean---until all this other came out---
I had always thought that they came from the knoll."
SPECTER -- "Did you have any conscious impression of where the second
shot came from?"
HILL -- "No."
SPECTER -- "Any conscious impression of where this third shot came
from?"
HILL -- "Not any different from any of them. I thought it was just
people shooting from the knoll---I did think there was more than one
person shooting."
~~~~~
And here we have an interesting admission by Mrs. Hill:
SPECTER -- "Do you think perhaps that you had the impression that that
came from the knoll exclusively 'cause you saw the man running away?
And your reaction that that must have been the man who did the
shooting?"
HILL -- "It could have been very well--it could have been."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_j.htm
>>> "Bill Newman said the shots came from "up on the hill", the GK area, 11-22-63." <<<
You left out Newman's "the mound of ground there".
But, just like Jean Hill, Newman HAS to be wrong about what he heard
too....because shots definitely DID come from the TSBD. This, again,
makes it very likely that Newman (and Hill) were simply fooled as to
the source of ALL the shots they heard...because they localize ALL of
the gunfire in one central (and obviously-incorrect) location.
>>> "Marilyn Sitzman told Dallas reporter Payne "he was shot between the temple and ear", 11-22-63." <<<
This is hilariously idiotic on your part. Sitzman was obviously
referring to where she saw the blood on JFK's head. She obviously
cannot be referring to the PRECISE ENTRY POINT on JFK's head, you
goof. The most blood/brain is always at the EXITING point.
Next?....
>>> "Maybe the best witness of all to a GK shooter was J.C. Price...he was adamant a shot came from behind the picket fence." <<<
Yes, Price said that to Mark Lane in "Rush To Judgment". But is Price
a "1 Direction" or a "Multi Direction" witness when it comes to ALL of
the shots he heard? (Answer -- He's in the "unknown" category with
respect to this question.)
Per Price's hilarious affidavit, he heard an unspecified number of
gunshots....he said he heard a "volley of shots" plus "another one"
that came "much later"...get this..."as much as five MINUTES later".
Is it any wonder the Warren Commission never called this guy to
testify? ~grin~
Let's review a few more hunks of hilarity in Mr. Price's "price"-less
(pun-pun) affidavit:
"The cars had proceeded west on Elm and was [sic] just a short
distance from the Tripple [sic] underpass, when I saw Gov. Connelly
[sic] slump over. I did not see the president as his car had gotten
out of my view under the underpass. There was a volley of shots, and
then much later, maybe as much as five minutes [sic??] later, another
one." -- J.C. Price; 11/22/63
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/price.htm
>>> "S.M. Holland on the overpass said the same and was corroborated by at least 3 of his co-workers." <<<
With ALL of those co-workers thinking that ALL of the shots came from
the SAME (Knoll) location. Which, again, is just wrong. Plain and
simple.
Why didn't these guys hear any of the KNOWN Depository shots? Do you
really think they heard ONLY Knoll shots...and somehow missed hearing
every one of the THREE audible shots that came from the Book
Depository? That's...nutty.
Holland is the ONLY witness you've mentioned who falls into the "2
Directions" category. All others go into a "1 Direction (The Knoll)"
category...which we all know is just plain incorrect.
>>> "Brehm & Altgens initial impressions documented are again the same." <<<
So, both Charles Brehm and Jim Altgens went on TV in June 1967 and
lied their asses off when they said that all of the shots they heard
had come from BEHIND the President's car. Is that what you want to
believe? ....
Excerpt from the 1967 CBS-TV Special "The Warren Report":
WALTER CRONKITE SPEAKING -- "{Mark} Lane then quotes Associated Press
photographer James Altgens and another eyewitness, Charles Brehm, as
giving testimony that would support the idea of a killer on the Grassy
Knoll.
"Yet Mr. Altgens, as we saw Monday night, is entirely certain that all
the shots came from behind, a fact that Mr. Lane does not mention. As
for Mr. Brehm, Eddie Barker discovered that he holds no brief either
for the Grassy Knoll theory or for the use of his words by Mark
Lane." ....
CHARLES BREHM SPEAKING -- "Mark Lane takes very great liberties with
adding to my quotation. I never said that any shot came from here
[pointing toward the Grassy Knoll] like I was quoted by Mr. Lane. Mr.
Lane would like me to have positively identified what I saw fly over
here as skull....although I told him I could not {identify it}....I
did not examine {it}....I thought it was....but I could not. So, he
has added his interpretations to what I said, and consequently that's
where the story comes from that I said that a shot come [sic] from up
there [pointing toward the Knoll again]. No shot came from up there
[the Knoll] at any time during the whole fiasco that afternoon."
>>> "If that isn't hard evidence along with the Parkland Doctors, you know where you can go." <<<
Where? To the Grassy Knoll to search for invisible killers perhaps? ;)
It should be obvious to even a CTer that this chart below does NOT add
up to a "Multi-Shooter, Multi-DIRECTIONAL Conspiracy Plot" in Dealey
Plaza on November 22, 1963:
David Von Pein
It's also very interesting to note the incredibly-tiny pct. of "2
Directional" witnesses (only 4.0%) via the "HSCA" pie chart on this
matter (per J. McAdams' site):
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/shots2.jpg
And that's an entity (HSCA) that ENDORSED a second shooting location!
Plus: look how tiny the HSCA's "Knoll" slice is...only 20.2%. And the
HSCA ultimately said a shot had almost certainly originated from that
location.
Hilarious.