Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 15)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From November 2005,
January 2006, February 2006, April 2006, October 2006, and March 2007.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- We don't wanna hear that {Lone Nut}
garbage anymore.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Who cares what you want to hear? The evidence
favoring Lee Harvey Oswald's sole guilt isn't going to suddenly
change. And anyone with a single working brain cell knows this to be
true.
I recently re-watched the WFAA-TV (ABC) as-it-happened coverage of
11/22/63, and took note of how ZERO of the witnesses interviewed
(including WFAA newsmen Jay Watson and Jerry Haynes) heard more than
three shots that day.
Elm Street witness Bill Newman heard just two shots. Abraham Zapruder,
also interviewed on WFAA-TV on November 22, heard either 2 or 3 shots,
but no more than three. And yet people like Robert Groden have the
guts to purport up to a 10-shot shooting event.
And yet, somehow, virtually all witnesses failed to hear more than
half of those Groden-proposed shots....with a huge percentage of the
witnesses hearing an exact number of shots that equates to the number
of bullet shells found in the Book Depository's sniper's perch.
Convenient for those plotters, huh?
How do CTers explain this basic "Three Shots" statistic among most
witnesses? It can't be explained away with "silenced"
weapons...otherwise most CTers would have to totally abandon the
notion that ANY witnesses accurately heard any "Knoll" shots at all.
Conspiracy theories run the gamut from silly, to crazy, to ludicrous,
to outright impossible. Take your pick.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/5ac4a7c8a086bb36
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d24cfcf0d0f8894b
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CTer -- How do you explain the fact that the plurality of witnesses
said that the shots came from the grassy knoll?
DVP -- You surely aren't purporting that "plurality" equates to
"majority"...are you? If you are suggesting that, you're mixed up big-
time. Because far more witnesses heard shots ONLY from the general
direction of the TSBD than they did from the Grassy Knoll area.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/shots4.jpg
And how do the conspiracy theorists conveniently explain away the
amazingly-low percentage of less than 5% of witnesses who heard shots
from more than just a single distinct direction (front or rear)?
Out of hundreds of witnesses, to have just 4 or 5 say they heard shots
from BOTH front and rear is extremely telling data -- which is data
that (via common sense) indicates the likelhood that shots came from
almost certainly only a SINGLE location (which has to be the Texas
School Book Depository, which is the only VERIFIED location of any of
the Dealey Plaza gunfire).
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CTer -- It's bizarre to me that so many here are anxious to viciously
attack Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone, with no proof that either of
them is a liar.
DVP -- Oh my heavens (and My Goodness)!! You've got to be joking with
this statement! No proof that Garrison lied??
Have you ever read Garrison's pack of lies within his October 1967
Playboy Magazine interview? That article/interview is so full of
obvious Garrison-spewed distortions and outright falsehoods, it's
staggering.
Have a good look. Here it is:
http://www.jfklancer.com/Garrison2.html
Anyone who has looked into the Kennedy assassination case (even in
just a cursory fashion) can easily debunk many of Garrison's obvious
lies that he spouted in that lengthy Playboy piece. Not to mention the
additional surplus of distortions that Garrison presented to the
American public in January 1968 during his interview with Johnny
Carson on "The Tonight Show".
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here are some excerpts from Garrison's '68 "Tonight Show" appearance:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Listen to the complete Garrison/Carson interview here:
http://www.jfk-online.com/jgcarson1.mp3
http://www.jfk-online.com/jgcarson2.mp3
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CTer -- What proof can you offer that Paul O'Connor was "wrong"? Paul
was there {at JFK's autopsy}, you were not.
DVP -- And guess who else was also there? -- Drs. Humes, Finck, and
Boswell. And they signed the autopsy report. Paul did not. The same
report you claim is full of feces.
You evidently don't have a single problem when it comes to believing
the ridiculous notion that all three autopsy doctors would
deliberately falsify the most important document they'd ever sign-off
on in their lives...right?
Is everything that is written within the "Supplementary Autopsy
Report" regarding JFK's brain all one big lie too?
And who was it, by the way, who wrote all of the "fiction" that's
described in that Supplementary Report re. the details of the brain
that Paul O'Connor said never existed at the autopsy?
Did Dr. James Humes do that all by himself? Or did he call in Stephen
King to help him pen a few choice bits of fiction to place in the
final draft of the report?
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CTer -- The gun that {Oswald} had in the Texas Theater was a "special"
that would have caused all the cartridges to bulge. None found at the
{Tippit murder} scene had that effect.
DVP -- And yet (some how, some miraculous way) ALL of those cartridges
were proven to have been fired from Oswald's .38 revolver (bulges or
no bulges). All the cops are liars, right?
Or: Did the "plotters/planters" slip up (yet again)? They planted used
cartridges that really DIDN'T come from Oswald's .38....but the cops
just went along with the plot anyway and said the shells WERE from
Oswald's gun. Is that about the size of it?
Make any sense...either way you slice it? (Maybe to a conspiracy kook
it does; but not to me.)
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CTer -- Oswald was identified as being in the theater prior to the
scheduled 1:20 showing of the movie by people who sat next to him and
who served him popcorn.
DVP -- So, let's re-create the scene (Via your "Conspiracy
Version")......
1.) Lee Harvey Oswald was inside the theater prior to 1:20 PM on
11/22/63.
2.) He then has a compulsive desire (after apparently paying for his
theater ticket) to get up and leave the theater prior to 1:50 PM.
3.) He then decides to act kinda "funny" in Johnny Brewer's shoe-store
entrance. (LHO's young daughter, Junie, needed shoes remember...maybe
he was browsing for shoes for Junie.)
4.) Then Oswald, after obviously not wanting to watch the police cars
roar by on Jefferson Boulevard, decides to go BACK into the theater he
was already in "prior to 1:20". (He just wanted to stretch his legs I
guess, and act kinda "funny" while he's stretching them. I hope he got
a "pass" to exit the theater and re-enter...did he show this "pass" to
cashier Julia Postal, or to anybody else? No, he didn't. Oh well.)
Any other stupid "Texas Theater" theories you'd like to get off your
chest?
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CTer -- Oswald didn't kill Tippit. Think for yourself just for once.
DVP -- Now you're just being flat-out stupid. Because nothing will
EVER turn Lee H. Oswald into an innocent man when it comes to the J.D.
Tippit murder. And anyone who has merely a hazy knowledge of the vast
evidence against LHO in the Tippit killing would conclude that Oswald
was guilty.
Only a person who WANTS (desperately!) a "conspiracy" to exist in
connection with the JFK assassination could think that Oswald was not
guilty of murdering Officer J.D. Tippit. And to WANT a conspiracy to
exist at ANY cost is also just flat-out stupid.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4d1790303e6fcc19
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CTer -- There have been numerous cases where the bullet just STOPS
inside soft flesh. But almost every one of those cases involves a low-
caliber bullet or lower-velocity bullet.
DVP -- Precisely. And just WHY would these so-called "professional hit
men" who were shooting at the President (as many CTers believe)
utilize TWO such low-powered weapons on 11/22/63? It's goofy as all
get out. But, it looks like you're stuck with such nonsense via any
type of pro-conspiracy, anti-SBT theory. Good luck in getting that
craziness off the ground.
Let's listen in as the "Assassination Conspiracy Team" discusses their
multi-shooter plan as of November 21st, 1963:*
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/0b9d88a1b8c19183
* = The exact "Patsy Plot" scenario may vary from the scenario
purported within the above weblink, depending upon your degree of
"Conspiracy Disease".
For example, "Charlie The Umbrella Dude" can be replaced by "Maurice,
A Knoll Sniper" if you wish. But in such a version, Maurice must be
utilizing either a low-powered rifle or he must have fired a bad round
or a misfired round into JFK's neck from the front.
Please also remember to garner the proper patent numbers from the U.S.
Patent Office for any and all individual "Assassination Shooting
Scenarios Heavy On Lunacy, Etc." (aka "ASSHOLE", for short).
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CTer -- If the Badge Man is real, he still won't implicate the whole
operation, since very few, if any, actually saw him in real life.
DVP -- Please take a breath....pause for a second....and re-read the
above remark again. ..... Now, can you see how utterly silly that
comment is? If not, you're in trouble.
Because if Badge Man is "real", and is a real gunman firing real
bullets at JFK's head, and if he hits JFK with any of his shots, then
just HOW is he not going to somehow "implicate the whole
operation" (i.e., blow the whole "Patsy Plot" to bits by just BEING A
FRONTAL GUNMAN, period)?
Or are you purporting that Badge Man missed with his shot(s)? Or is he
just merely 'window dressing' of some ilk? If so, why is he there at
all? Makes no sense.
So, if Badge Man is "real", his presence is certainly going to be made
known if he HITS THE PRESIDENT, which many CTers believe did happen
(with those same CTers believing that the wound was magically
eradicated by cover-up operatives at a Conspiracy BatCave in the
Dallas sewer system somewhere, or elsewhere).
That theory resides in the "Nutty" file, along with all of the other
pro-conspiracy nonsense.
So, regardless of whether many witnesses (or any) physically saw Mr.
"Badge Man" or not....his "presence" is certainly going to throw a big
monkey-wrench in that "Oswald Lone Patsy Plot" if his bullets hit
anyone in Dealey Plaza.
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/badgeman.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/59e025a70efa9ef5
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CTer -- Is it coincidental that LHO worked right on the parade route?
DVP -- Yes. Absolutely. Positively. To believe otherwise, you're going
to have to explain HOW Mr. Oswald (or the "plotters" who were pulling
his weak-minded strings) were able to FORESEE THE FUTURE.
Oswald started working at the Book Depository on October 16, 1963. Not
a person alive knew for certain that a motorcade was going to take
place in Dallas until WEEKS after that October date (let alone that
such a parade would take JFK directly past the building Oswald worked
in).
To believe Oswald's being where he was on November 22 was NOT a
complete coincidence and happenstance and luck of the draw -- you have
no choice but to implicate SEVERAL different people in a conspiracy to
set Oswald up and "put" him in the TSBD for the sole purpose of taking
the fall for JFK's murder.
These people include individuals such as Ruth Paine, Linnie Randle,
and 19-year-old kid Wesley Frazier -- all of whom would have had ZERO
reasons whatsoever to want to get involved in such a heinous plot in
the first place.
For instance, no CTer has yet to provide one good, solid, believable
reason for WHY Ruth Paine or Wes Frazier would want to set Lee Oswald
up for killing their own President.
And even if somebody DOES come up with even a half-baked CT-slanted
reason for why those people would want to do this -- there's still
that OTHER large calendar-related obstacle to overcome (which can
never be overcome, no matter WHAT motives Paine, et al, may have
possessed) -- and that's the fact that nobody could have known of the
motorcade route until (at the earliest) the morning of Tuesday,
November 19th, 1963...just a mere three days prior to Kennedy's
arrival in Dallas.
Did the "plotters" just get extremely LUCKY when they "placed" LHO in
the TSBD? And did that dirty, rotten, evil, conspiratorial henchwoman
named Ruth Paine say this to her co-plotters in mid-October '63?.....
[RUTH PAINE IMITATION ON....]
Hey, Wesley and Linnie -- You know I think that the husband of that
woman I have staying with me just might be an ideal patsy to take the
lone fall in the killing of President Kennedy.
I really like JFK and don't have any real reason to want to conspire
with others to bump the guy off, but hey, when a perfect patsy just
falls into your lap like this Lee Oswald guy has done...you gotta go
with the flow, right?
Okay, so I'll call up the Depository manager and see if Lee can get
hired there. I'm just taking a guess that JFK will drive right past
the building MORE THAN A MONTH FROM NOW, and ON A WORK DAY when
Oswald's inside the building -- but that's a chance we'll just have to
take.
I don't have any knowledge at all of President Kennedy's visit to
Dallas, and even less information about any possible motorcade (let
alone the exact routing)...but we've gotta start somewhere, right?
So, what do you guys say? You with me, Linnie? Wesley? You two don't
mind putting your lives on the chopping block to frame this guy, do
you? Come on! Let's do this! It'll be great!
Just think of the rewards in the end! Cars! Furs! Houses! Cash!
Prison! And looking over our shoulders thinking the cops are gonna nab
us every time we step outside! What a fabulous plan!!
[/RUTH PAINE OFF]
Anybody care to buy a share of the above nonsense? I'd love it if some
defense lawyer were to present such a cockeyed theory to a jury. The
laughter would be so loud from the courtroom, you'd probably never get
the jury up off the floor.
But the conspiracy buffs who believe that Oswald was "planted" in the
Depository in mid-October of '63 are going to HAVE to "buy" something
similar to the above "Mock Ruth Paine Plot" in order to believe Lee
Harvey Oswald's presence in the Texas School Book Depository on
11/22/63 was NOT the result of pure ordinary coincidence and
happenstance.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/64195df0086af9b4