Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 54)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From May 2003, November
2003, June 2004, August 2004, July 2006, and March 2007.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- What in the world would anybody,
especially him {Jack Ruby}, be doing going into the {Dallas Police}
garage with a loaded gun at exactly that time.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- It's just exactly the kind of thing Jack Ruby
would do. He loved to be "where the action is". He knew many DPD
officers, and, in fact, if you'll recall, he was present in the Dallas
Police Station on several OTHER occasions on November 22 and 23.
And Ruby's gaining access to the DPD basement via the Main St. ramp
seems to me to be no surprise either. He was a common sight around the
Department. He simply walked down the ramp.
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CTer -- How in God's name could Lee Harvey Oswald have the power to
get the Secret Service, protecting Kennedy's limousine, to stand down?
DVP -- The "limo stand-down" junk is pure myth. Never happened. You're
referring, of course, to Henry Rybka being left at Love Field when the
motorcade commenced. But where's the EMPTY running board on the Secret
Service follow-up vehicle in Dealey Plaza if Rybka was supposedly NOT
REPLACED in the SS car?
Answer: There's no empty slot on the Secret Service car. That car was
jam-packed with agents throughout JFK's motorcade in Dallas, including
the proper number of agents (4) riding on the four running
boards. .....
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/altgens.jpg
http://www3.baylor.edu/Library/BCPM/JFK/Photos/JFK%20Motorcade%202%20Large.jpg
Surely you don't think that Rybka and Clint Hill were assigned to RUN
alongside the limo ALL THE WAY TO THE TRADE MART, do you? (At 50 MPH
on Stemmons Freeway too? That's loony. They didn't assign "constantly
running agents" to JFK's motorcades. Just watch ANY previous Kennedy
parade.)
Pretty much all conspiracy theories are pure myths, which have
blossomed nicely since Oliver Stone's fantasy film first surfaced in
late 1991...which is a movie that Vincent Bugliosi will be thoroughly
trashing in "RECLAIMING HISTORY" (thank the Maker).
Moreover, a crazy conspiracy plot, like the multi-shooter type that is
believed by a large number of Americans, was utterly impossible...and,
just as importantly, such a plot would have been totally ridiculous
from a PRE-planned level prior to 11/22/63.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3374883466e6f1e9
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DVP -- While looking at some online documents connected with the JFK
assassination, I noticed this interesting item -- Lee Harvey Oswald's
application for employment at the Texas School Book Depository (filled
out 38 days before he killed the President from that very workplace):
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0118b.htm
Note the several lies that Oswald tells on the application.....
1.) He lists his address incorrectly. He was really living at 1026
Beckley in Oak Cliff at the time. But, instead, lists his address as
Ruth Paine's home in Irving (where Marina was residing, but not Lee
himself). Oswald had been living at the Beckley roominghouse for just
one day prior to filling out that TSBD application (he rented the
Beckley Avenue room under the alias O.H. Lee on October 14, 1963).
2.) Re. the question "Where did you last work?", Oswald lists the
Marine Corps ("U.S.M.C."), which is a lie. Oswald had several jobs (in
Dallas and New Orleans) after leaving the Marines in 1959.
3.) Under "Do you room and board?", Oswald answered "No" .... which is
also a lie. He was "boarding" at the Beckley Avenue roominghouse, but
he evidently didn't want his Depository boss, Roy Truly, to know he
was living at a roominghouse.
4.) He also falsely claims that he's lived in Dallas "continuously".
This is inaccurate. Within just the previous year or two, he had also
lived in Fort Worth and New Orleans.
A fifth falsehood could be added here as well, when we look at
Oswald's answer of "No" to the question on the application about
"defects". However, it does only ask about the applicant's "physical"
defects, which wouldn't, of course, take into account Oswald's warped
mental state as of October 1963.
But if the word "physical" were to be removed from that question, Mr.
Oswald would have been forced to say this in response to such an
inquiry.....
"Yes -- I'm a fruitcake, a wife-beater, a defector to Russia, and an
assassin, having attempted to end the life of a human being (Retired
General Edwin Walker), in April of this year (1963). I sincerely hope
that my tendencies toward political assassinations do not dissuade you
from considering employing me with your company. Everybody, after all,
has SOME little black marks about their persona. Mine, unfortunately,
is that I'm prone to killing top political figures. But I can push a
mean two-wheeled cart filled with books! Yours truly, Lee H.
Oswald". :)
Oswald was hired at the Book Depository that very day he filled out
that application (October 15, 1963). He started to work, as an "order
filler" [for the then-minimum wage of $1.25 per hour], the next
morning, Wednesday, October 16, 1963, which was the beginning of a new
pay period at the Depository.
Hindsight is 20/20 (obviously) -- But I look at that application form
and think: If only Mr. Truly had passed on hiring Lee Oswald. Just
think of how history would have been altered by just that one fairly-
minor (at the time) decision made by Roy S. Truly of the Texas School
Book Depository Company.
Oswald, of course (who knows), might still have found some way to kill
President Kennedy on 11/22/63 as the motorcade made its way through
the Dallas, Texas, streets. But that is doubtful, since he probably
would not have had the golden opportunity that he was presented with
by being employed in a tall building right along the parade route.
I often wonder, though, if Oswald just might have tried to find a way
to use his Carcano rifle that November day, even if he hadn't been
employed at the Depository. That "What If?" is not of any significance
now, of course, but is something to ponder upon occasion.
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CTer -- It would worry me if you DID believe it was one superhuman
shooter from a window.
DVP -- Start worrying then. I'm in the "One Shooter Named Oswald"
camp. Nothing "superhuman", though, about Oswald's having done it
alone. Lee had ample training in the Marines and had very likely
practiced with his Carcano rifle for months before November 22nd
rolled around.
Plus -- Oswald more-than-likely had a little more than eight seconds
to accomplish the shooting, rather than the 5.6-second shooting window
that many people want to believe. .....
1st shot = At Zapruder Film frame 160 (approximately).
2nd shot = Z224 (3.50 seconds after the first shot).
3rd shot = Z313 (4.86 seconds after the second shot).
Total Time = 8.36 seconds (approximately).
Minimum mechanical firing time required to recycle the bolt of
Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle = 2.295 seconds (per the Warren
Commission/FBI tests).
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0061a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0071a.htm
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CTer -- Davey-boy is forced to the silly theory that up to 90% of
America are "kooks".
DVP -- As per the norm, the CTer who uttered the above sentence has
overstated the percentage of Americans who believe in a "JFK
conspiracy".
Not nearly ALL of the 70%-75% of the American people who currently
believe in conspiracy in the JFK case are to be considered outright
"kooks". And that "70%-75%" figure I mentioned is much closer to
reality than that CTer's "90%" data, as this relatively-recent 2003
poll verifies:
http://www.pollingreport.com/news2.htm#Kennedy
The "kooks" out of that 70%-75% are the percentile (whatever it may
be; I have no idea) who have actually studied the evidence in the case
and have read a goodly portion of the Warren Report and yet still
think that everything in the whole case stinks with "conspiracy" no
matter what (and they also think that Oswald didn't have a thing to do
with J.D. Tippit's demise either).
That's the type of CTer who ranks as a "kook" in my book, for certain.
Also -- The above-referenced poll (from November 2003) includes the
amazingly-low figure of SEVEN PERCENT in the "Oswald Not Involved"
category.
That's "amazingly low", that is, if Lee Harvey Oswald had really been
what a whole lot of conspiracy theorists seem to believe Oswald was on
11/22/63 -- i.e., an innocent patsy.
It would mean, if those "patsy"-believing CTers are correct, that 83%
of those people polled in 2003 (not counting the 10% with "no
opinion") are dead wrong when it comes to the question of Saint
Oswald's "involvement" in the JFK murder.
Are those 83% to be considered crazy or kooky? Or could it actually be
that that 83% of the people from that particular poll actually have
the common sense to realize that Lee Harvey Oswald's November 22nd
involvement is all too obvious (as spelled out by the entire batch of
physical and circumstantial evidence in the JFK case)?
I'll choose the latter option.
Here's what that portion of the above poll revealed:
"Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was the only gunman in the Kennedy
assassination, do you think there was another gunman in addition to
Oswald there that day, or do you think Oswald was not involved in the
assassination at all?" .....
Only Oswald -- 32%
Another Gunman -- 51%
Oswald Not Involved -- 7%
No Opinion -- 10%
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CTer -- LHO was one of the lousiest shots the Marines ever had on the
shooting line!
DVP -- Where did you get that information? Do you have any detailed
statistics that can help prove your bold claim? .... (Didn't think
so.)
And there's also this with respect to Lee Harvey Oswald's shooting
abilities (from the 1986 LHO TV Docu-Trial)......
VINCENT BUGLIOSI -- "Mr. Delgado, I believe you testified before the
Warren Commission, that on the rifle range Oswald was kind of a joke,
a pretty big joke."
NELSON DELGADO (who served with Oswald in the Marines) -- "Yes, he
was."
BUGLIOSI -- "You're aware that at the time Oswald was doing poorly on
the range, he was about to be released from the Marines, is that
correct?"
DELGADO -- "Yes, he was."
BUGLIOSI -- "Are you aware that in 1956, when Oswald first joined the
Marines, and was going through Basic Training, he fired a 212 on the
rifle range with an M-1 rifle, which made him a 'sharpshooter' at that
time -- are you aware of that?"
DELGADO -- "Yes."
BUGLIOSI -- "Given the fact that Oswald was about to get out of the
Marines when he was in your unit, and the fact that he showed no
interest in firing on the range -- you don't attribute his poor
showing on the range to his being a poor shot?"
DELGADO -- "No."
BUGLIOSI -- "He could have done better, you felt, if he tried?"
DELGADO -- "Certainly."
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CTer -- This only goes to show LHO was a "plant" (i.e., patsy).
DVP -- No...it only goes to show that you (a kook) will believe
ANYTHING except the official evidence that's still on the table today,
which all points to only shots from the rear and only shots from LHO's
gun.
That's what it shows, Mr. Kook.
~~~~~
"Several factors make it clear that Kennedy and Connally WERE struck
by the same bullet. There's absolutely no evidence of the existence of
any separate bullet hitting Connally." -- Vince Bugliosi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egvc3TYQ9po
~~~~~
"If Lee Harvey Oswald had nothing to do with President Kennedy's
assassination and was framed....this otherwise independent and defiant
would-be revolutionary, who disliked taking orders from anyone, turned
out to be the most willing and cooperative frame-ee in the history of
mankind!! Because the evidence of his guilt is so monumental, that he
could have just as well gone around with a large sign on his back
declaring in bold letters 'I Just Murdered President John F.
Kennedy'!!!" -- Vince Bugliosi
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.video/msg/5093634b419405d5