Re: OSWALD AND THE C.I.A.
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fcba5e2d94f988d7
>>> "I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in assassination lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a well-documented statement that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract or other formal association with the CIA prior to the assassination. Could anyone tell me whether or not this is true?" <<<
A very good indication that Lee Harvey Oswald was certainly not a CIA
agent or any kind of "operative" working for some high-up organization
in the U.S. Government is:
The way Lee Oswald was living in the weeks and months (and years)
prior to 11/22/63.
Oswald couldn't even afford to feed and provide a home for his wife
and kids in the weeks leading up to the assassination. And he never
offered Ruth Paine a cent as compensation for Marina and his kids
living at the Paine home for several weeks in 1963. Not a cent.
Do CIA operatives normally have to live in virtual poverty while they
are "on assignment" for the agency (or at ANY time while in the employ
of the Langley big boys)?
Do CIA agents have to live in ROOMINGHOUSES, in $7 and $8 a week rooms
(some no bigger than a large closet) while working for an agency like
the CIA?
Somebody please show me proof that ANY ex-CIA agents (or current
agents) were forced to live like Lee Oswald lived in 1963 -- i.e., in
virtual poverty.
It's just silly.
In short -- The manner in which Oswald LIVED HIS OWN LIFE FROM DAY TO
DAY is virtual proof, IMO, that he was WORKING ALONE on November 22,
1963 (and on April 10, 1963, in the Walker incident as well).
Now, I'm sure that some CTers will chime back in with: 'CIA agents
don't flaunt their wealth'; or: 'The salary isn't good anyway for an
agent like Oswald'.
But my main point will still apply at the end of those
arguments...which is: Lee Harvey Oswald's OWN LIFESTYLE and HABITS and
LODGINGS and LACK OF READILY-AVAILABLE FUNDS all lead in the direction
of Mr. Oswald NOT being an agent of the Central Intelligence Agency of
the United States (or any other "high-up" organization within either
the U.S. Government or a foreign Government).
tomnln
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b04b9c7d-7afe-48a3...@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
CIA Employee testimony given UNDER OATH.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b894cb4c-a7e9-4cc7...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
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> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fcba5e2d94f988d7
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>>>> "I am new to the board and not one particularly interested in
>>>> assassination lore. However, I thought I remembered reading a
>>>> well-documented statement that indeed Oswald had some sort of contract
>>>> or other formal association with the CIA prior to the assassination.
>>>> Could anyone tell me whether or not this is true?" <<<
>
>
>
>
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> A very good indication that Lee Harvey Oswald was certainly not a CIA
> agent or any kind of "operative" working for some high-up organization
> in the U.S. Government is:
>
> The way Lee Oswald was living in the weeks and months (and years)
> prior to 11/22/63.
>
> Oswald couldn't even afford to feed and provide a home for his wife
> and kids in the weeks leading up to the assassination. And he never
> offered Ruth Paine a cent as compensation for Marina and his kids
> living at the Paine home for several weeks in 1963. Not a cent.
>
> Do CIA operatives normally have to live in virtual poverty while they
> are "on assignment" for the agency (or at ANY time while in the employ
> of the Langley big boys)?
>
> Do CIA agents have to live in ROOMINGHOUSES, in $7 and $8 a week rooms
> (some no bigger than a large closet) while working for an agency like
> the CIA?
>
> Somebody please show me proof that ANY ex-CIA agents (or currents
YoHarvey
> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
>
> CIA Employee testimony given UNDER OATH.
>
>
>
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> >www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fcba5...
>
> - Show quoted text -
In addition David, at a time when communication with Oswald would have
been imperitive, weeks before the assassination, Oswald neither made
nor received any calls at his boarding house other than the one time
he called Marina. In other words, there was NO communication in any
form and Oswald neither left the boarding house after 6 PM nor did he
receive any guests.
David Von Pein
>>> "How "High off the Hog" did Donnie Brasco Live David???" <<<
Did "Brasco"/Pistone have to live in roominghouses for $8 a week? Was
he able to support his family while he was an FBI undercover agent? Or
did his family have to sponge off of friends for their room 'n board?
I have no idea. I'm just asking. But I have a feeling what the correct
answer is.
YoHarvey
WTF Donnie Brasco has to do with Oswald is a mystery. Then again,
Tomnln's life is a mystery. Happens to those spending their formative
years working at Burger King.
David Von Pein
>>> "In addition David, at a time when communication with Oswald would have been imperitive, weeks before the assassination, Oswald neither made nor received any calls at his boarding house other than the one time he called Marina. In other words, there was NO communication in any form and Oswald neither left the boarding house after 6 PM nor did he receive any guests." <<<
Plus:
Lee Oswald never received any phone calls at all while he was staying
at Ruth Paine's house in Irving on the weekends.
From the 1986 TV Docu-Trial, "On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald":
VINCENT BUGLIOSI -- "Did he [LHO] ever receive any telephone calls at
your home of a mysterious nature?"
RUTH PAINE -- "No, he never received any calls of any nature."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvgJaAAt4fk
Now, I will say this -- common sense is telling me that if a person
was engaged in some kind of covert, undercover, or clandestine work
(for the CIA, the FBI, or even for the "Fred & Wilma Flintstone
Detective Agency of Bedrock, USA"), it would stand to reason that such
a person working undercover probably wouldn't be receiving any phone
calls (or visitors) at his residence, if he was living at a crowded
(or semi-crowded) roominghouse, like Oswald was in October and
November of 1963. Especially since Oswald didn't have a private
telephone in the crackerbox of a rented room that he called home at
1026 North Beckley Avenue.
Oswald, if he ever got an outside call at the Beckley residence*,
would have had to use a phone located elsewhere in the roominghouse
(other than his own room), meaning that other tenants could have
possibly been within earshot of any of his conversations.
* = And I don't believe there's even one verified instance of him
receiving any calls there at all, with the exception of the call that
Ruth Paine made to that location, when Ruth was told "there is no Lee
Oswald living here" [via Ruth's WC testimony], because both Gladys
Johnson and Earlene Roberts knew him by the name "O.H. Lee".
So, IMO, any "covert" calls made by an "undercover agent" of some ilk
would logically have been made while using a pay phone or while using
some other phone away from his residence (especially, as mentioned, in
Oswald's "roominghouse" case).
But most of Oswald's time and whereabouts are accounted for in the
weeks leading up to the assassination. Obviously not every last second
is accounted for, that's true. But since Oswald couldn't drive (at
least not very well) and he had no car of his own, it would have made
getting from Point A to Point B a little more difficult for "CIA Agent
Lee Harvey".
Additional random thoughts re. this subject:
The name "Donnie Brasco" being mentioned earlier made me think of
something else with respect to Oswald's supposed "CIA ties".
"Brasco" was a fake name used by FBI agent Joseph Pistone in the
1970s. Now, while it's true that Lee Oswald did use various aliases
during the last few years of his life, it's also true that he used his
own name on many occasions too, such as when he signed the hotel
register in Mexico City "Lee, Harvey Oswald" [WCR; Pg. 733]:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0379a.htm
Also:
Since many conspiracy theorists seem to think that Lee Oswald was
working for the CIA (or some similar agency) for several YEARS prior
to JFK's assassination (going all the way back to Oswald's time in the
Marines and just after his attempted defection to Russia as a 19-year-
old in 1959), why hasn't anyone been able to come up with just ONE
other "job" that Oswald supposedly performed for the CIA (or whoever)
while he was employed by them from 1959 up until 11/22/63?
If Oswald was "working for the CIA" as far back as 1959 (or even
earlier than that), as many CTers firmly believe, then what on Earth
was he DOING for the CIA all during that time period? What other jobs
were given him? Anything? Or was he only used as an "agent" in
November 1963, in order to serve as the proverbial "patsy" in JFK's
murder?
All of the above stuff indicates the likelihood that the conspiracy
theorists who desperately WANT Lee Harvey Oswald to have been an
"agent" of the U.S. Government prior to JFK's death are living in a
dream world all their own -- a shadowy world of "maybe's" and "it
could have been's" as far as Lee Oswald's Government involvement is
concerned.
Plus:
I'm also wondering how many CIA agents don't even bother learning a
basic common skill like driving a car by the time they're 24 years
old?
Can anybody point to even one such "agent" who, at the age of 24,
didn't have a driver's license and was unable to properly turn the
wheel of an automobile (per Ruth Paine's testimony to the Warren
Commission)?:
"It became clear to me in that lesson that he [Lee Oswald] was
very unskilled in driving. We practiced a number of the things you
need to know: to back up, to turn, right-angle turn to come to a
stop. .... I noticed when we got to the parking lot when he attempted
to turn in a right angle he made the usual mistake of a beginner of
turning too much and then having to correct it. He was not familiar
with the delay of the steering wheel in relation to the wheels." --
Ruth Paine; 1964 WC Testimony
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f7fb7fe29bedd69d
Gil Jesus
US.
They lied.
muc...@gmail.com
This only goes to show what a clever bunch those CIA recruitment
officers were. Who would suspect that Oswald, with his radical
political views, lack of formal education, dismal employment history
(not unlike Healy's) not to mention financial situation, rocky
marriage, dyslexia, poor driving skills, etc., was in reality a CIA
operative?
muc...@gmail.com
Did I forget to mention that he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn
with a fist full of peanuts?
Ed Dolan
And he lied big time before going to Cuba and lying at a tribunal
there. The HSCA stated after hearing rebuttal witnesses and seeing
documents that Wilcott was not believable. Unlike you, Rossley, they
were there. You have no basis for believing Wilcott EXCEPT
desperation.
s/f Dolan
>
> "David Von Pein" <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:b894cb4c-a7e9-4cc7...@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
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>
>
> >www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fcba5...
tomnln
"Ed Dolan" <74030...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:21063971-f771-418a...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 3, 8:13 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
>>
>> CIA Employee testimony given UNDER OATH.
>
> And he lied big time before going to Cuba and lying at a tribunal
> there. The HSCA stated after hearing rebuttal witnesses and seeing
> documents that Wilcott was not believable. Unlike you, Rossley, they
> were there. You have no basis for believing Wilcott EXCEPT
> desperation.
> s/f Dolan
Show us "Perjury Charges" against Willcot, Dolan???
Proof of YOUR Lies are HERE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/u.htm
ALL in your own words.
I call it "Verbal Judo"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt
Another "brilliant" observtion from a gnat brain..... This argument
assumes that Oswald knew that the assassination was about to happen
and he played a participating role.
How does your idea work out if Oswald was just an unwitting patsy as
he claimed??
other than the one time
> he called Marina. In other words, there was NO communication in any
> form and Oswald neither left the boarding house after 6 PM nor did he
> receive any guests.- Hide quoted text -
bulth...@hotmail.com
> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fcba5...
No one makes the case more effectively FOR Oswald's CIA contacts
than the LONE GUNMEN guys.
So if he is Sooo poverty stricken how does he travel around the
globe, snag multiple weapons, and create his own flawless looking
fake identification(40 years B4 Kinko's mind you)...the answer is he
can't.
CIA assets are not on union wages nor do they punch a clock or have
a locker.
Quote from his Mother in 1963 ..."My son worked for the
government..."
Official CIA explanation " he THOUGHT he was working for the
CIA".
The key is De Mohrenschildt, Oswald's best friend in Dallas... a
proven CIA agent. Debate him.
Mark
David Von Pein
>>> "No one makes the case more effectively FOR Oswald's CIA contacts than the LONE GUNMEN guys." <<<
LOL. It's a topsy-turvy world for the CTers, isn't it?
The two guns Oswald used on JFK & Tippit cost him a grand total (for
both weapons) of $51.40. And it seems that he couldn't even manage to
pay off all of that amount all at once; he only paid $10 of the $29.95
for the revolver right away. The rest he paid when the gun was
shipped, two months later.
Oswald also had some experience in photography. I doubt he was a whiz
in this field, but he obvious had enough knowledge to throw together
some decent-looking fake IDs (which he obviously did do, several
times).
BTW, can CTers answer this --- Why did LHO sign his own name to the
hotel register in Mexico City on 9/27/63 (instead of using one of his
aliases)?