IN LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S ROOM
David Von Pein
I was recently watching the DVD of the 1978 Mel Stuart-directed
television movie "Ruby And Oswald", which is a film that does a very
nice job of sticking to the known facts in evidence regarding the
timeline of events surrounding the assassination and the days that
followed 11/22/63, and I took note of something quite interesting
during the scene which has Lee Harvey Oswald (played by Frederic
Forrest) rushing into the roominghouse on Beckley Avenue in Oak Cliff
at approximately 1:00 PM CST on November 22nd:
During the re-created scene of Oswald's probable movements and actions
while inside his small rented room, actor Forrest hurriedly goes into
the bedroom, closes the door, takes a light windbreaker jacket (like
Oswald's) out of a closet, puts the jacket on, adjusts the collar of
the jacket a little bit, zips the jacket up about halfway (which is
something, btw, that housekeeper Earlene Roberts said that Oswald
didn't do until after he came out of his room or just as he was coming
out of the room), opens a dresser drawer, pulls a revolver out of the
drawer, closes the drawer, stuffs the gun into the waist of his pants,
pulls the jacket back down over his waistband to hide the gun, opens
the bedroom door, exits the room, and closes the door behind him.
The total time that it took for Forrest to accomplish all of the above
actions -- 22 seconds.
The only thing that director Mel Stuart probably should have had
Forrest do differently while he was performing this bedroom re-
creation is to have the actor grab a handful of extra bullets from a
dresser drawer when he was also retrieving the revolver, because it's
doubtful whether the real Oswald was carrying 9 or 10 bullets in his
pants pocket when he went to work with Wesley Frazier from Irving on
the morning of the assassination (seeing as how he didn't have his
revolver with him that morning at all).
Another thing that might have added a few more seconds to the total
time that Oswald spent in his room is the possible need to physically
load his .38 Smith & Wesson revolver with some bullets. Although it's
quite possible, of course, that the gun was already loaded with
bullets before Oswald ever entered the room that day. No one can know
that detail for certain.
So, even if we were add a total of 10, 20, or even 30 full seconds
onto Frederic Forrest's roominghouse re-creation to account for some
additional time required for him to grab a handful of bullets from a
drawer (or elsewhere in the room) and to possibly put a few bullets in
the chamber of the gun, the total time that Forrest would have spent
inside that bedroom would still have been less than 1 minute (and only
32 seconds, total, if we were to add only 10 seconds, which seems like
a reasonable amount of time for a man to pick up a few bullets and put
them in his pocket).
Now, granted, this "re-creation" performed by Frederic Forrest in Mel
Stuart's 1978 TV-movie doesn't "prove" a darn thing with respect to
the real Oswald's actions in November 1963. I'll readily admit that
fact.
But what it does do is to place on film a reconstruction of an event
that is purported to have taken place on November 22, 1963, by Lee
Harvey Oswald....an event that I don't think anyone has re-created on
film elsewhere in other movies or TV shows or documentaries.
And, IMO, Forrest's re-creation of Oswald's alleged movements and post-
assassination actions after arriving at the Beckley roominghouse are
probably very close to the precise movements made by the real Lee
Oswald on 11/22/63.
And the key, IMO, is the fact that all of those actions that Oswald
needed to perform after going into his bedroom could easily be
accomplished in well under one minute (and probably well under 45
seconds, even when adding a few more seconds for Oswald's needed
bullet-grabbing), as proven by actor Frederic Forrest, who did perform
such an approximate re-creation of LHO's actions in less than 25
seconds.
The "How Long Was Oswald In His Room On November 22nd?" topic has come
up at these forums multiple times in the past, and I have added my two
cents to the debate many times, such as the following examples:
"The best guess is that [Lee] Oswald left his roominghouse at
approx. 1:03 or 1:04 PM (CST). My guess is it was even earlier than
that; because there's no way in hell he was fiddling around in that
shoebox of a room for "3 or 4 minutes", per Mrs. [Earlene] Roberts'
account. There would be absolutely no reason (logically-speaking) for
Oswald to have been in that room for more than 30 seconds at most. Was
Earlene Roberts lying? Of course she wasn't. But people have a habit
of stretching out time estimates to (incorrect) lengthier guesses when
they're asked to re-create "timelines"." -- DVP; 06/30/2006
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d9456c10c7229bbd
"I'd still be willing to bet that Oswald was not in that tiny
room for "3 to 4 minutes" either. One minute tops. I don't KNOW this
to be so, quite obviously. But, as stated before, people are
notoriously rotten at gauging precise times and timelines. And Mrs.
Roberts certainly didn't have a stopwatch on Oswald; nor would she
have had any particular REASON to take note of exactly how long Oswald
stayed in his room. Her "3 to 4 minutes" is an estimate, and nothing
more. Next up from Walt I fully expect to see him claiming that J.D.
Tippit was shot at 12:50 PM, or maybe 12:55. It seems to get earlier
with each passing hunk of kookshit he spouts." -- DVP; 08/16/2006
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/feff32649a08fe33
"It's always been my theory (yes, it's a guess, but a good one,
IMO) that Oswald was not in that shoebox-sized room of his on Beckley
for any "3 to 4 minutes" (as ESTIMATED by Mrs. Roberts, who was the
only witness to Oswald's coming in and going out again around 1:00 PM
on 11/22/63). Why on this Earth would Oswald, who was undoubtedly in a
"hurry" (per Roberts herself), spend 3 to 4 minutes in that closet of
a room just to grab his pistol and some bullets?" -- DVP; 08/02/2007
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/40971e54d64656ec
"There's no chance in hell that Oswald spent "3 to 4 minutes" in
that closet/room. No way. I'll never buy that part of Roberts'
account; and this gives [Oswald] more time to reach 10th St., via my
version, which is much more sensible than Roberts'." -- DVP;
09/02/2007
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/33c400e838fbe27f
"The walk back to LHO's roominghouse was re-created by WC
counsel members, and it took 5 minutes and 45 seconds....which would
have placed Oswald back home at approx. 12:59:45 PM. He was probably
in that shoebox of a room for no more than 1 minute (tops), and
probably (IMO) closer to only 30 seconds (Earlene Roberts' "3 to 4
minutes" testimony notwithstanding), which would have given Oswald
ample time to travel the 0.85 of a mile to Tenth Street to kill
Officer Tippit. The trip from 1026 Beckley to the Tippit murder site
on 10th St. has been re-created several times by different people
(with varying results, depending upon the pace, of course), and the
excursion has taken as little as 11 minutes." -- DVP; 11/08/2007
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/da9ac1706cdd917d
"IMO, Oswald was in that room for no more than 1 minute --
tops." -- DVP; 03/17/2008
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/1697196b7607382b
"I'll maintain until the cows come home that it's very unlikely
that Oz stayed in that shoebox of a room for any 3-4 minutes that day.
No way. No how." -- DVP; 04/24/2008
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/679eb16f02238b52
"I'll always be of the opinion that Mrs. Roberts was incorrect
when she said that Lee was in his crackerbox of a room for "3 or 4
minutes". There was simply no reason under the moon for him to be in
that room for more than 1 minute--tops." -- DVP; 07/28/2008
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/e8c1801145f96b3f
And while it's true that housekeeper Earlene Roberts testified to the
Warren Commission on April 8, 1964, that Oswald "went on to his room
and stayed about 3 or 4 minutes", it's also a fact that Mrs. Roberts
also said that Oswald was in his room "just long enough, I guess, to
go in there and get a jacket and put it on".
Gil Jesus
Now we're using MOVIES to time Oswald's movements ?
Can you get any more delusional or desperate ?
David Von Pein
>>> "Now we're using MOVIES to time Oswald's movements?" [meaningless space removed prior to question mark] <<<
<sigh>:
"Now, granted, this "re-creation" performed by Frederic Forrest
in Mel Stuart's 1978 TV-movie doesn't "prove" a darn thing with
respect to the real Oswald's actions in November 1963. I'll readily
admit that fact." -- DVP; 10/07/2008
David Von Pein
REPRISE:
>>> "Now we're using MOVIES to time Oswald's movements?" <<<
Why not? Frederic Forrest has legs and arms...just like Oswald.
Forrest can do a "re-creation" just as well as someone doing one for
an "official" entity like the WC.
Timing things from movies is sometimes a worthy exercise. Another
excellent Oliver Stone-embarrassing "timing" example is noted below:
A very interesting fact was brought out (by total accident) in Oliver
Stone's fairy-tale flick "JFK", when the actor playing Lou Ivon (Jay
Sanders) is seen attempting to duplicate the timing of Lee Harvey
Oswald's shots (erroneously believed, for some reason, by the
filmmakers to be shoehorned into 5.6 seconds, when the Warren
Commission explicitly stated that the shooting took anywhere from
"approximately 4.8 to in excess of 7 seconds" [Warren Report; Page
117]; therefore, as that passage illustrates, the Warren Commission
was certainly NOT boxing itself in to just a "5.6-second" shooting
timeline as Oliver Stone's movie wants people to believe).
Anyway, Ivon/Sanders dry fires three shots in UNDER SIX SECONDS,
utilizing (I can only assume) a bolt-action rifle very similar to that
of Oswald's Carcano. Costner/Garrison then looks at his watch and
claims that Ivon took "between 6 [and] 7 seconds" to get off those
three shots....which is dead-wrong, and anyone can just watch their
own DVD player's elapsed-time counter and count the seconds for
themselves.
It took Sanders approx. 5.5 seconds to squeeze off those 3 shots in
the movie. Sanders fires his first shot at exactly the 1:14:50 point
in the film (elapsed running time), with shot #3 occurring prior to
the DVD's time counter reaching the 1:14:56 mark.*
* = Based on the "Director's Cut" Two-Disc Special Edition DVD of the
film (released in 2001).
In other words, Oliver Stone's movie, apparently without Mr. Stone
even realizing what he had placed ON FILM in his own motion picture,
PROVES a key lone-assassin-favoring aspect of the JFK murder case
(i.e., that Oswald certainly had enough time to fire three shots from
a bolt-action rifle in the allotted time per the Zapruder Film). It's
hilarious.
If Oliver Stone had been smart, he would have had Sanders struggling
like mad with the bolt of the rifle and would have had the actor take
8 or 9 seconds (or maybe even longer) to do the re-creation.
But as it is, Stone has his actor smoothly working that bolt and
getting off three shots in almost exactly the same amount of time that
most people think (incorrectly, of course) the WC was pigeonholing
itself into re. the shooting timeline.
It's really quite interesting, and very funny, considering it's
proving exactly the OPPOSITE of what the filmmaker is intending to
"prove".
Also -- Sanders was utilizing a weapon that I can only assume Sanders
hadn't used much, if at all, prior to the filming of the scene.
Although it is possible, of course, that "Take #39" was the one with
the 5.5-second shooting re-creation that ended up on screen in the
movie -- which, if true, would only tend to indicate that "Practice
Makes Perfect" when utilizing a bolt-action carbine for rapid-fire
shooting.
Maybe some conspiracy-happy people of the world can start up a new
theory -- "Oliver Stone's motion picture has been altered by a band of
Government shills in order to show that Oswald's shooting performance
could be accomplished in approx. 5.5 seconds!"
The same conspiracists can then add (for good measure) the following
addendum -- "The film MUST be faked in some way during that shooting
re-creation scene in the Book Depository. Because, why on this Earth
would Oliver Stone possibly want to have (ON FILM) proof of something
that most conspiracists say is utterly impossible?"
David Von Pein
December 2006
http://google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9bce073792dae800
Bud
> ROFLMAO.....
>
> Now we're using MOVIES to time Oswald's movements ?
The actions depicted in the movie, idiot. The same actions Oswald
performed.
> Can you get any more delusional or desperate ?
No, desperate is using the guesses of witnesses about time as
bedrock evidence. The fact that Oswald was seen at 10th and Patton,
and left evidence there that could only be left by him proves he was
there. The only thing left to do is to ponder the details of how it
came to pass.
Sam McClung
news:364a9db5-2988-438b...@y29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> ROFLMAO.....
>
> Now we're using MOVIES to time Oswald's movements ?
>
> Can you get any more delusional or desperate ?
(Looks at TV confused.) You mean everything on TV isn't true?
David Von Pein
>>> "You mean everything on TV isn't true?" <<<
To a CTer, only the conspiracy-flavored tripe that appears on the boob-
tube is true.
Right, McCloud...er, McClung?
Take TMWKK, for example. That 9-part series of total trash is
considered to be the greatest thing to come along (TV-wise) concerning
the Kennedy case since Mark Lane and Jimmy Garrison, right? CT-Kooks
still are clamoring to get their hands on those elusive last 3 parts
of the series.
It just proves that 'trash sells'. To hell with the evidence. And to
hell with CS&L.
Right, McCloud? ...er....whatever.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f0a3e91565c5c2cf
Chuck Schuyler
Aren't you the guy who once *implied* that John Connally may have
whipped a pistol out of his boot and joined in on the motorcade mayhem?