Would JFK have pulled out of Vietnam ? - Part 2
Gil Jesus
once and for all.
eca...@tx.rr.com
Col. Fletcher Prouty as a source again??!?!
Gil this is pure speculation on your part..
The CIA killed Kennedy? There is no such
evidence.. Much less clear and convincing
evidence. This theory is better than your
"Kennedy was trying to cough up the bullet
lodged in his throat" yarn.. But again it's
that old bugaboo for you Chico.. You have no
supporting evidence, much less an evidence
*pattern* to support this particular idea
although it is zany enough for the El Chico
nutty theories portfolio..
MR ;~D
Ed Cage
1333May3007
nosupportingevidence
Fat...@aol.com
How did they answer an unanswerable question? Once and for all, no
one knows what JFK would have done had he not been assassinated.
Every one has an opinion but you know what they say about opinions.
Bill Clarke
Gil Jesus
>
> How did they answer an unanswerable question? Once and for all, no
> one knows what JFK would have done had he not been assassinated.
> Every one has an opinion but you know what they say about opinions.
>
> Bill Clarke
McNamara, the Secretary of Defense, he wouldn't know, would he ?
Perhaps JFK was only kidding when he told Tip O'Neill he was going to
bring the advisors home.
Roger Hilsman, Assistant Secretary of State for the Far East, no he
wouldn'thave known either.
And John Newman, who studied all of those DOCUMENTS about JFK and
Vietnam, perhaps he was mistaken too.
Another troll who is in total denial and can't deal with the truth.
Fat...@aol.com
John Newman had his bullshit blown out of the water in a seminar at
the LBJ library long ago. I believe even the far left Nome Chomsky
even blows JN away.
McNamara has been a self-serving liar since at least the Toykin Gulf
incident. Heavy on the self-serving. Halberstam called McNamara's
book "shockingly dishonest".
Hilsman stated an opinion. We have gone into opinions.
Not familiar with what Tip had to say.
Then of course there are always the house pets, Kenney and Theodore to
chime in. Did you miss them?
You missed Rusk who has an opposing opinion. You missed Robert
Kennedy's oral history in the Kennedy Library that says the decision
hadn't been made yet. I'm sure Bobby knew more than anyone concerning
JFK's intentions.
So I say it is an unanswerable question. I welcome the truth, that is
why I'm offended when it is compromised like you just tried to do.
Bill Clarke
tomnln
Did the CIA Wihhold evidence???
<eca...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1180550450....@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Read the book "Brothers" to find out what JFK's Closest people had to say
about it.
See the Video of McMNamara "The Fog of War".
Or, donh't you think the "Secretary of Defense" would know?
Bill;
Would you care to address these Issues?>>>
ttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/spy.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/danrather.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/RACE%20TO%20TSBD.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/single_bullet.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/media_page.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm
<Fat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1180552957.1...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
arch_s...@myway.com
> On May 30, 3:52 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
SNIP
> McNamara has been a self-serving liar since at least the Toykin Gulf
> incident. Heavy on the self-serving. Halberstam called McNamara's
> book "shockingly dishonest".
That's ToNkin but never mind.
Educate me. How is McNamara saying JFK intended to pull out of Vietnam
self-serving?
YoHarvey
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
After World War II JFK had been one of those who pilloried Truman for
having "lost China to the Communists." So he was deeply concerned not
to provoke a similar campaign of vilification against himself by
losing in Vietnam. From the 1950s he had been espoused the domino
theory, saying "that a Communist takeover in Indo-China would imperil
Burma, Thailand and other independent states." Privately he told Dean
Rusk, "'If we have to fight in SEAsia, lets fight in Vietnam. The
Vietnamese, at least, are committed and will fight. There are a
million refugees from Communism in S. Vietnam. Vietnam is the place.'"
On many occasions JFK publicly rejected withdrawal, announcing his
determination to stay in South Vietnam to defeat the "Communist
aggression" against it because "For us to withdraw from this effort
would begin a collapse not only of South Vietnam but of Southeast
Asia. So we are going to stay there." This theme was emphatically
reiterated in the speech he was going to give in Dallas the day he was
killed.
tomnln
http://whokilledjfk.net/baileynme.htm
"YoHarvey" <bail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180569732.0...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Fat...@aol.com
> Read pages 2 and 43 of NSAM 263 Bill.
2. A program be established to train Vietnamese so that
essential functions now performed by U.S. military personnel can be
carried out by Vietnamese by the end of 1965. It should be possible to
withdraw the bulk of U.S. personnel by that time.
This is the closest you get to withdrawal in NSAM 263. Please note
that it is not a total withdrawal, that it depends on SVN rising to
the occasion and that "it should be possible", not that we're getting
the fuck out of Dodge. Please direct me to this page 43 you refer
to. There aren't 43 pages in NSAM 263.
3. In accordance with the program to train progressively
Vietnamese to take over military functions, the Defense Department
should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to
withdraw 1000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963. This action
should be explained in low key as an initial step in a long-term
program to replace U.S. personnel with trained Vietnamese without
impairment of the war effort.
And here is the famous "Jack was already withdrawing when that lying
bastard LBJ had him murdered". Please note, "without impairment of
the war effort".
Peter posted these; you should take time to investigate them if you
are interested in NSAM 263. McNamara says the 1,000 men were surplus
and needs to get out of the way. Taylor stresses that we aren't
leaving without success.
http://tapes.millercenter.virginia.edu/clips/1963_1002_vietnam_am/
http://tapes.millercenter.virginia.edu/clips/1963_1002_vietnam_pm/ind...
http://tapes.millercenter.virginia.edu/clips/1963_1005_vietnam/index.htm
> Read the book "Brothers" to find out what JFK's Closest people had to say
> about it.
>
> See the Video of McMNamara "The Fog of War".
You can read all the books and view all the videos you want and it
remains the opinion of those speaking. We have discussed opinions.
> Or, donh't you think the "Secretary of Defense" would know?
Not if the decision hadn't been made yet. Bobby says the decision
hadn't been made yet. You follow this logic? Why would JFK
withdraw? We were winning (not really) according to NSAM 263; there
was no protest of note in 1963. It is easy for us to use hindsight
and now claim "Jack would have saved us from Vietnam". In 1963 we
didn't realize we needed to be saved. Neither did Jack.
> Bill;
> Would you care to address these Issues?>>>
No, I wouldn't. I hardly see what Dan Rather has to do with this
subject and I wonder why you wag these links around like a pacifier
when they have no pertinence to the subject of the message.
Bill Clarke
> ttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/spy.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/danrather.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/officer_m.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/RACE%20TO%20TSBD.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/Rifle.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/single_bullet.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/media_page.htmhttp://www.whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm
>
> <Fatm...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1180552957.1...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 6:37?am, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Conclusion - members of the Kennedy administration answer the question
> >> once and for all.
>
> >> ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN6r7MTTf9Y
>
> > How did they answer an unanswerable question? Once and for all, no
> > one knows what JFK would have done had he not been assassinated.
> > Every one has an opinion but you know what they say about opinions.
>
Fat...@aol.com
wrote:
> On May 30, 5:43 pm, "Fatm...@aol.com" <Fatm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 30, 3:52 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> SNIP
>
> > McNamara has been a self-serving liar since at least the Toykin Gulf
> > incident. Heavy on the self-serving. Halberstam called McNamara's
> > book "shockingly dishonest".
>
> That's ToNkin but never mind.
>
> Educate me. How is McNamara saying JFK intended to pull out of Vietnam
> self-serving?
Thanks for the spelling correction. My apologies for not
proofreading.
Basically if Robert Strange can make JFK look good it makes RSM look
good, or at least not as bad.
With the benefit of hindsight it makes JFK look good if we can say
that he was going to withdraw from VN. RSM could have (and probably
would have) claimed credit with getting us out of that terrible VN
mess. That would also have saved RSM's failed policies from being
exposed in coming years.
McNamara also does this with the advisors JFK had in Vietnam who by
1962 were actually engaged in combat. RSM still maintains that they
were only "advisors". So does Anthony Marsh.
Bill Clarke
>
>
>
>
> > Hilsman stated an opinion. We have gone into opinions.
>
> > Not familiar with what Tip had to say.
>
> > Then of course there are always the house pets, Kenney and Theodore to
> > chime in. Did you miss them?
>
> > You missed Rusk who has an opposing opinion. You missed Robert
> > Kennedy's oral history in the Kennedy Library that says the decision
> > hadn't been made yet. I'm sure Bobby knew more than anyone concerning
> > JFK's intentions.
>
> > So I say it is an unanswerable question. I welcome the truth, that is
> > why I'm offended when it is compromised like you just tried to do.
>
tomnln
"tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:iZr7i.172842$nh4....@newsfe20.lga...
Fat...@aol.com
> Your "claims" are as enpty as as your Patriotism.
>
> Read pages 2 and 43 of NSAM 263 Bill.
Bill Clarke
tomnln
There is NEVERE "Total Withdrawal".
FYI, we are STILL in Japan
FYI, we are STILL in Germany.
<Fat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1181047920....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Fat...@aol.com
> FATMAN;
> There is NEVERE "Total Withdrawal".
>
> FYI, we are STILL in Japan
> FYI, we are STILL in Germany.
FYI we did have a total withdrawal from Vietnam. It was 1975.
Remember. Remember Somalia? I don't think we are in North Korea
anymore. I believe Regan brought them all out of Lebanon but I'd have
to check that one.
Never say never. Bites you in the ass every time.
Bill Clarke
> <Fatm...@aol.com> wrote in message
tomnln
<Fat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1181071174....@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 5, 11:34 am, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>> FATMAN;
>> There is NEVERE "Total Withdrawal".
>>
>> FYI, we are STILL in Japan
>> FYI, we are STILL in Germany.
>
> FYI we did have a total withdrawal from Vietnam. It was 1975.
The commies DROVE us outta NAM.
> Remember. Remember Somalia? I don't think we are in North Korea
> anymore.
We NEVER Occupied North Voetnam.
Fat...@aol.com
>
> > On Jun 5, 11:34 am, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> FATMAN;
> >> There is NEVERE "Total Withdrawal".
>
> >> FYI, we are STILL in Japan
> >> FYI, we are STILL in Germany.
> > FYI we did have a total withdrawal from Vietnam. It was 1975.
> The commies DROVE us outta NAM.
Perhaps so but it was still a total withdrawal. Even the ambassador
had to haul ass out of there. Now that is total and complete
withdrawal.
> > Remember. Remember Somalia? I don't think we are in North Korea
> > anymore.
>
> We NEVER Occupied North Voetnam.
>
I never said we did. What about North Korea and Somalia? Lebanon?
Mexico? Panama?
>From time to time we have packed our bags and gone home. Damn shame
we didn't do it in Vietnam before 1963 and Diem's murder.
Bill Clarke
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -