Just re-read On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison
Salvador Astucia
befriended me years ago when I first became a big fan of Garrison's.
(I had a few Kennedy-related projects before writing a book about the
assassination. My efforts got media attention which I assume is why an
informant was sent to befriend me.) This guy was always running down
Garrison, claiming he was a fake -- an FBI or CIA stooge. I must
admit, I had my doubts when my former friend reminded me that Garrison
was once an FBI agent. A few years ago I realized my so-called friend
was a stooge for the federal government, and he had been keeping tabs
on me for years. I dropped him as a friend in 2002. After re-reading
the book that changed my life in 1992, there is little doubt in my
mind that Jim Garrison was the real deal. Even in death, he is hated
on the Internet nearly as much as I am :-) That alone raises my
opinion of him quite a bit :-)
Salvador Astucia
David Von Pein
Oh, brother.
Jimbo was the first "Real Mega-Kook" of the post-JFK assassination
era, that's for darn sure.
Let's just examine a few of Garrison's many outrageously-false claims:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/2317ac73008b3c8a
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9d4772fbe4df0bcd
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7e730615fc2a0a14
cdddraftsman
>
Poor Salvador , waited your entire life to find something to be
offended by ?
Too bad it had to take shape in the form of you being a liar and
anyone
who disagree's with you becomes *Them* . I wouldn't know , but it
must
be nice to be hated to compensate for low self esteem ?
Everyone lines up on the TJ I-80 for Rossley he's so well liked :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=8vuav4&s=2
Ellen complains she see's him too often and wishes he would take more
trips
out of town .
cdddraftsman
Clinical Psychopathology : The Jim Garrison Story !
NEW ORLEANS, AND THE GARRISON INVESTIGATION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was a three-ring circus. A flamboyant district attorney, with
visions of conspiracy, proposing a series of theories, most of them
bizarre. What he first called a "homosexual thrill killing" :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimloon5.htm
evolved, under the influence of the conspiracy buffs who flocked to
New Orleans, into a massive CIA and federal government plot. When
push
came to shove in the courtroom, a jury took less than an hour to
acquit Clay Shaw : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shaw.jpg
the man Garrison put on trial.
How Big a Conspiracy?
Just how many people were involved in a conspiracy to kill Kennedy,
and then to cover up their deed? Sound logic says that any conspiracy
theory, to be credible, must include only a limited number of
people :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/logic4.htm
How many people did Garrison believe were involved? Nobody has an
exact count, but the list of all the groups and individuals he
implicated is pretty long : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/suspects.htm
Sinister Connections?
Conspiracy books routinely claim that Oswald had an office at 544
Camp
Street in New Orleans, and that this was the "same address" occupied
by Guy Banister's detective agency. This, supposedly, is evidence
tying Oswald to Banister, Ferrie, and the anti-Castro Cubans. When
the
House Select Committee examined this issue in the late 70s :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/544camp.txt
they found little solid evidence to place Oswald at that location.
More recent research by Dave Reitzes : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/camp.htm
shows that an office at 544 Camp Street was never more than a notion
in the head of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Lee Harvey Oswald was in the Civil Air Patrol as a youth in New
Orleans. This raises the possibility that David Ferrie knew Oswald.
Many conspiracy books imply that some sinister relationship between
the two started at this time. The House Select Committee on
Assassinations examined this issue, and this is their report :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cap.txt
Does it suggest the possibility that Ferrie knew Oswald?
Is there any evidence of a close relationship between the two?
Conspiracy Witnesses
The most important witness to later (but not during the Garrison
investigation) place Oswald with Banister at 544 Camp Street was
Delphine Roberts, Banister's secretary. The House Select Committee
didn't believe her testimony. Author Gerald Posner interviewed her in
1992 :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/delphine.txt and found her no more
believable.
Unlike Roberts, the Clinton witnesses have been believed by otherwise
skeptical investigators like the House Select Committee and Norman
Mailer. During and since the Clay Shaw trial, they have told a
consistent and apparently sincere story of Lee Oswald, Clay Shaw, and
David Ferrie visiting Clinton, Louisiana one day in 1963 in a big
black car. But what if you look at the Clinton witnesses' early
statements, before they were influenced by repeated questioning and
repeated exposure to pictures of Oswald, Shaw, and Ferrie?
Gerald Posner was the first researcher to gain access to very early
accounts of the Clinton witnesses, and he outlines his findings in
this passage from Case Closed :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/clinton.txt
Posner's conclusion is:
There is little doubt the Clinton witnesses are telling the truth as
they now recall it. However, their original statements to Garrison's
staff reveal considerable contradictions, so much so that the very
heart of their story is invalidated . . . . It was almost six years
after the alleged incident in Clinton that the witnesses first
testified at the Garrison trial. Garrison's staff, when questioning
the Clinton witnesses, had only presented photos of Oswald, Ferrie
and
Shaw, and incorrectly said that others had already identified those
as
the people who had visited the town. This power of suggestion, and
later coaching, developed the testimony that today has been repeated
so often that the House Select Committee found it so convincing.
Dave Reitzes is in general agreement with Posner's thesis, but notes
several factual errors that detract from Posner's presentation :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/drposner.htm
One example of what Posner found in the documents is the development
of the testimony of Corrie Collins. Compare his first statements to
Andrew Sciambra :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/collins1.txt
(of Garrison's office) with his statements at the Shaw trial.
Important findings on the Clinton episode appear in Patricia
Lambert's
book False Witness. Dave Reitzes, in this review : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/lambert.htm
discusses the book.
Finally, Dave Reitzes has written the definitive debunking of the
Clinton episode :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/clinton1.htm
He shows how what started out as (in Garrison's words) "a whisper in
the air" was developed into an impressively consistent facade of Shaw
trial testimony.
Was There a "Clay Bertrand?"
Garrison's entire case was based on the belief that Clay Shaw, using
the alias "Clay Bertrand" conspired to kill Kennedy. Where did the
name "Clay Bertrand" come from? From an eccentric, rather sleazy New
Orleans lawyer named Dean Andrews. Here is an account :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/andrews.txt abstracted from Kirkwood's
American Grotesque, of Andrew's ever-changing testimony.
It is often claimed that Clay Shaw admitted to using the "Clay
Bertrand" alias when he signed a fingerprint card during his booking
in New Orleans. The card, listing the alias, was produced by the
Garrison prosecution. Did Shaw admit to the alias by signing the
card?
Examine an account of the prosecution's attempt to have the card
entered into evidence :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shawbook.txt in the Shaw trial (taken
from American Grotesque). Did Officer Habighorst tell the truth?
Lou Ivon: No "Clay Bertrand"
Like the FBI in 1963, Garrison's researchers combed the French
Quarter
for "Clay Bertrand," the man Dean Andrews said had called him on the
day after the assassination and suggested that Andrews go to Dallas
to
legally represent Oswald. What was the result? The following memo was
written by Garrison's chief investigator, Lou Ivon.
M E M O R A N D U M
February 25, 1967
TO: JIM GARRISON
FROM: LOUIS IVON
RE: CLAY BERTRAND
To ascertain the location of one CLAY BERTRAND, I put out numerous
inquiries and made contact with several sources in the French Quarter
area. From the information we have obtained concerning this subject,
I'm almost positive from my contacts that they would have known or
heard of a CLAY BERTRAND. The information I received was negative
results.
On February 22, 1967, I was approached by "BUBBIE" PETTINGILL in the
Fountainbleu Motor Hotel, located on Tulane Avenue, whom I had
earlier
contacted about CLAY BERTRAND. He stated that DEAN ANDREWS admitted
to
him that CLAY BERTRAND never existed.
Ivon was not the only Garrison staffer to reach this conclusion.
Assistant DA Andrew "Moo-Moo" Sciambra was given the task of
"squeezing" the French Quarter to get information from homosexual
informants. He admitted to author Edward Jay Epstein that he failed
to
find any "Bertrand." See Epstein's The Assassination Chronicles (New
York, 1992), p. 196.
Justice Assassinated: Garrison's Shoddy Case Against Shaw
Dave Reitzes
is an independent-minded researcher who has done a comprehensive
survey of the evidence Garrison presented against Shaw. Here is his
four-part essay:
Meet Clay Bertrand : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shaw1.htm It all
started with a shadowy (and possibly non-existent) figure named "Clay
Bertrand" mentioned to the Warren Commission by Dean Andrews.
Who was Clay Bertrand? : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shaw2.htm
Reitzes details attempts to discover the identity of this "mystery
man" and to connect him with Clay Shaw. Assassin or Fall Guy? :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shaw3.htm
Garrison's attempt to link Shaw to an assassination conspiracy.
A Question of Perjury : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shaw4.htm
Garrison
supporters, unable to show that Shaw conspired to kill Kennedy, often
fall back to the claim that "he lied under oath." Is this true?
Garrison's Witnesses :
Garrison had literally dozens of witnesses who would link Clay Shaw
to
Lee Oswald, or to the CIA, or to David Ferrie, or provide some sort
of
"sinister" linkage that Garrison thought important. Journalist James
Phelan explained the process:
In the two years between the Shaw hearing and the trial, Garrison's
staff interviewed hundreds of would-be witnesses. There are certain
sensational cases that have a fascination for unstable people and
fetch them forth in droves. A classic example was the "Black Dahlia"
mutilation murder of playgirl Elizabeth Short in Los Angeles. Over
the
years, dozens of people came forward and confessed to this crime,
which still remains unsolved. Celebrated cases also attract witnesses
who are not psychotic, but who falsely identify key figures out of
faulty memory or a desire to lift themselves out of dull anonymity
into the spotlight. Chief Justice Frankfurter once commented that
eyewitness testimony is the greatest single cause of miscarried
justice. In a sensational case, a careful prosecutor often spends
more
time winnowing out false witnesses than he does working with
authentic
ones.
The Garrison investigation had a disastrously low threshold, across
which trooped a bizarre parade of people eager to bolster his
conspiracy scenario. (Scandals, Scamps, and Scoundrels, p. 169)
Not surprisingly, only a tiny handful of Garrison's witnesses had
enough credibility to take the stand at the Shaw trial, and most of
these were discredited by the defense. Phelan goes on to discuss a
few
typical ones : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/phelan2.htm
Other, more important ones included:
Charles Spiesel
Spiesel testified to having seen Clay Shaw and David Ferrie plotting
to kill JFK. He was an impressive witness - until the defense started
asking him questions.
Jules Ricco Kimble
He wasn't put on the witness stand in the Shaw trial, but that
doesn't
stop Garrison from repeating his stories in the book On the Trail of
the Assassins :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimlie.htm
But as Dave Reitzes shows, his credibility could hardly be more
suspect.
Jack Martin
Another witness who placed Oswald at 544 Camp and told numerous
"interesting" stories was Jack Martin. Out-of-town conspiracy writers
were happy to accept Martin's statements at face value, as was Oliver
Stone. But local people were more careful:
A States-Item reporter, who has spent more time than most listening
to
Jack Martin talk, describes him "as one of the most interesting men I
ever have met."
"He is as full of that well known waste material as a yule hen. On
the
other hand, he is many times a very competent investigator who has
the
friendship and confidence of reputable, well-placed individuals. He
drinks, often to excess, but bears no real evidence of being an
alcoholic. He desperately wants to be loved, and this is his
downfall.
Often, he wants to please everyone, everywhere so damn much that he
ends by hurting the people who have befriended him. He must be taken
with a grain of salt leavened by a grain of confidence. If you listen
to him for two hours, often you will receive two minutes of useful
information. I suppose, to sum him up, he is like a muddy river. You
have to use a very fine filter."
Rosemary James & Jack Wardlaw, Plot or Politics?, p. 48.
Jack Martin
was well-known in New Orleans, and uniformly regarded as unreliable :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ripples.htm#jackmartin Not surprisingly,
Garrison never put Martin on the stand.
Richard Case Nagell :
Like Martin, Richard Case Nagell was a witness who gave considerable
"information" to the Garrison investigation, but never testified. But
this doesn't stop Garrison from using Nagell's stories about CIA and
KGB foreknowledge of an assassination plot in On the Trail of the
Assassins, and saying that "Nagell impressed me as being utterly
honest and sincere" and that "I was satisified that a fabricated tale
was not in this man's makeup" (On the Trail of the Assassins, pp.
185,186). Read Dave Reitzes' account of Nagell's ever-changing story,
and decide whether Nagell was capable of fabrication :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nagell1.htm
Perry Raymond Russo
Jim Garrison's key witness in his case against Clay Shaw was a
certain
Perry Raymond Russo (pictured at left). During the Shaw trial, Russo
told a story of an "assassination party" in which Shaw, David Ferry,
and Lee Oswald discussed killing Kennedy. Yet Russo's testimony
underwent an interesting "evolution" between the time he first came
forward in Baton Rouge and his court testimony. He was repeatedly
questioned, repeatedly shown pictures of Clay Shaw, and then given
"truth serum" and put under hypnosis at least twice. Russo was,
according to Dave Reitzes, the "Way Too Willing Witness," who proved
extremely pliable in the hands of Garrison and his staff :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/willing.htm
Was Clay Shaw a Spook?
Jim Garrison charged that Clay Shaw was a CIA agent, and Garrison
supporters have accepted this view. But secret documents released by
the Agency show something entirely different :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shawcia.htm as does the testimony of
former CIA insider Victor Marchetti. Crackpot Shooting Scenario
And how many shooters and co-conspirators were in Dealey Plaza,
according to Garrison? In this excerpt from a Playboy interview, he
lists the sinister cast of characters he believes were in Dealey
Plaza
that day.
Another thing that supposedly linked Clay Shaw to sinister forces was
his membership on the Board of Directors of an Italian operation
called "Permindex." Conspiracy books all claim that that Permindex
was
a CIA front. They fail to tell the full story, however, as to where
this "information" comes from. The reality was exposed in a classic
article in the British journal Lobster :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/lobster.htm
A more recent, and definitive, treatment of this issue by journalist
Max Holland appeared in the journal Studies in Intelligence :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sii.htm
Garrison the Man
Jim Garrison had a skill that has been seldom noted. He was a
cryptographer! This passage, from Epstein's Counterplot, shows how he
applied his cryptographic abilities to the prosecution of Shaw. It's
hilarious, if you can forget that Clay Shaw's life was ruined by this
sort of "logic." Other examples of Garrison's bizarre behavior
include : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/garrisn1.txt
His phone call to Warren Hinckle, editor of Ramparts magazine,
fingering the aerospace industry as the culprits : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimloon1.htm
His conversation with James Kirkwood, in which he explained a
"sinister" connection between the International Trade Mart and the
Cordell Hull Foundation.
A conversation with journalist Hugh Aynesworth, where Garrison
explains that his family is in danger from Miami-based assassins. But
not until noon : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimloon2.htm
His explanation to journalist James Phelan that the assassination was
a homosexual thrill killing.
Garrison thought some conspirator had inserted a bullet with a
"magnum
load" into his pistol.
Clinical Psychopathology?
In 1952, Jim Garrison was relieved of duty in the National Guard.
Doctors at the Brooke Army Hospital in Texas diagnosed him as
suffering from a "severe and disabling psychoneurosis" which
"interfered with his social and professional adjustment to a marked
degree." The evaluation further said that Garrison "is considered
totally incapacitated from the standpoint of military duty and
moderately incapacitated in civilian adaptability," and recommended
long-term psychotherapy. See Case Closed, p. 423.
In 1986, Patricia Toole interviewed Garrison, and asked him about
various authors who had written books on the Kennedy assassination.
See what he says about Tony Summers' Conspiracy and Henry Hurt's
Reasonable Doubt. This interview is from the files of the AARC in
Washington : DC. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/toole.txt
Crackpot Prosecutions
Garrison was always indicting people based on the flimsiest evidence,
or the wildest notions of how they might be guilty of something. The
most famous of his crackpot prosecutions, of course, was that of Clay
Shaw. But there were others.
David Lifton
is a conspiracy-oriented researcher who, at the time of Garrison's
investigation, knew one Kerry Thornley, who had been a Marine buddy
of
Lee Oswald's. Lifton thought Thornley might be of help to the
investigation, and brought Thornley to Garrison's attention. But
then,
to Lifton's horror, Garrison concluded that Thornley was actually a
coconspirator and Oswald "look-alike." :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/lifton1.htm
Garrison got a letter claiming that one Edgar Eugene Bradley had made
inflammatory comments about John Kennedy. Following up, Garrison
found
that Bradley had been in El Paso, Texas on the day of the
assassination. Based on this "evidence," he issued an murder warrant
for Bradley, who was living in California. When Garrison's staff
failed to produce evidence and witnesses at an extradition hearing,
California governor Ronald Reagan refused to extradite Bradley. In
this interview, Bradley recounts his experiences.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/cm06_interview.html
War Among the Buffs
The ranks of conspiracy believers have long been split by different
attitudes toward Garrison. Many important conspiracy authors (Tony
Summers, Henry Hurt, David Lifton) believe Garrison to have been
reckless and irresponsible. Yet Garrison has a vocal cadre of
supporters among conspiracy buffs. An e-mail feud took place in
August
1995 between David Lifton, who had seen Garrison's antics first-hand,
and Garrison supporters Gary Aguilar and Lisa Pease :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/lifton1.htm
Lifton's view of Garrison:
I think its ugly when the power of the state is arrayed against an
innocent man - and the witchhunt that took place in New Orleans back
in 1967-69 will always remain exactly that: an ugly incident in the
annals of jurisprudence . . .
In spite of the current popularity of Garrison in conspiracy circles,
most mainstream conspiracist authors have blasted Garrison and his
New
Orleans "investigation." : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/buffs_on_jim.htm
"He went from a highly intelligent eccentric to a lunatic in the
period of one year. . . . Every time press interest in the case would
start to wane, he would propound a new theory. One week it would be
14
Cubans shooting from storm drains. The next week it would be H. L.
Hunt and the far right in Dallas. This was no Robin Hood - no
Untouchable either."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosemary James in Newsweek, 12/23/91.
Did Garrison Spy on Journalistic Critics?
The following is from a typewritten document in the Assassination
Archives and Research Center in Washington, DC. It is dated August
26,
1967, and has the handwritten notation (presumably by AARC personnel)
"Bud Finsterwald's notes."
Notes on interview with Jim Garrison, District Attorney, New Orleans
-
1:00 to 4:00 P.M. at Criminal Courts Building, New Orleans. Also
present part time: Louis IVON, Garrison's Chief Investigator.
Garrison was extremely interested in our wiretap investigation. Feels
strict legislation is very necessary. Says he only uses it against
"guys like Sheridan." Feels his office and home phones are tapped by
the Bureau but doesn't care.
Walter Sheridan
of course, was one of the journalists who took a critical stance
toward Garrison and his "investigation." The notes also say "Sheridan
- No good Bastard - Compared him with Nazis."
Insiders Go Public
When Perry Raymond Russo took the stand during the preliminary
hearing
at the Shaw trial, he told a story radically different from the one
he
told Sciambra in Baton Rouge (see above). Journalist James Phelan
confronted Garrison with the discrepancy, and a meeting at Garrison's
house followed. This passage, from American Grotesque :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/gurvich.txt describes that meeting -
which
resulted in investigator William Gurvich defecting from the Garrison
team. When he wrote On the Trail of the Assassins Garrison denigrated
Gurvich, and claimed he had only a marginal role in the
investigation.
In reality, Gurvich was an important figure at the center of the
probe :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jimlie10.htm
The House Select Committee on Assassinations interviewed Gurvich in
1978. Gurvich gives a fascinating insider's account of Garrison the
man and the Garrison investigation :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/gurvich2.txt
James Phelan : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/phelan.htm
himself started out as an "insider" - a friend of Garrison's on the
basis of a very favorable article he had written about the DA in the
Saturday Evening Post. But when Garrison carelessly gave Phelan
documents that blew the case against Shaw entirely out of the water,
Phelan concluded that Garrison's case was fraudulent, as he explained
in an article in the Saturday Evening Post.
Edward Jay Epstein : http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/archived/garrison.htm
was trained as a Political Scientist, but early on moved to
journalism
with a critique of the Warren Commission titled Inquest. When
Garrison's investigation became public he, like many buffs, went to
work for Garrison as a volunteer. In the wake of Garrison's death in
1992 he described his experiences in "Epitaph For Jim Garrison:
Romancing the Assassination" in the New Yorker.
For remainder : http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/garrison.htm
Salvador Astucia
> >>> "After re-reading the book that changed my life in 1992, there is little doubt in my mind that Jim Garrison was the real deal." <<<
>
> Oh, brother.
>
> Jimbo was the first "Real Mega-Kook" of the post-JFK assassination
In my opinion, the late Jim Garrison was an American patriot of the
highest order. He had a rare combination of honesty, valor and a
brilliant legal mind. As we know, he is the only government official
to prosecute anyone involved in the murder of President John F.
Kennedy. As district attorney of New Orleans in the 60s, Garrison
prosecuted the late Clay Shaw for conspiracy to murder President
Kennedy. During the trial and for the remainder of his life, Mr.
Garrison was publicly criticized and frequently ridiculed for having
the audacity to think that individuals within the highest levels of
the United States government actually conspired to murder President
Kennedy. Why would such people want to kill JFK? In a nutshell, Mr.
Garrison believed (and I agree) that President Kennedy was violently
removed from his position as commander-in-chief of the military
because he was a man of peace who genuinely detested war. He was a
positive person who inspired the best in people and did not pander to
base instincts as did so many of the young president's successors.
Having stated that, I will offer one slight criticism of the former
New Orleans prosecutor. In my opinion, in his book, On the Trail of
the Assassins, Mr. Garrison focused too much on the CIA as collective
entity that made collective decisions on its own. I would challenge
that point of view. My research shows that the plot to murder
President Kennedy was originated by two high-level individuals within
the United States government who may or may have worked for the CIA,
but definitely had authority to use the notorious spy agency as a tool
to carry out and cover-up the assassination.
Mr. Garrison's investigation correctly showed that the CIA and the FBI
were very much involved in grooming (or sheepdipping) Lee Harvey
Oswald to make him look guilty when he was accused of murdering the
beloved young president. That was the CIA's major role in the
assassination - to make an innocent man look guilty. The Agency
definitely played a support role with the actual assassins, as did the
Dallas Police, as did Dallas Mayor Earle Cabelle (brother of former
Number Two man at the CIA, General Charles Cabelle, who was fired by
Kennedy after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion), as did FBI director J.
Edgar Hoover and the FBI as a collective body, as did the Secret
Service agents assigned to protect President Kennedy.
But did the CIA or any of the other stated agencies or individuals
actually play a role in the initial decision to murder President
Kennedy? In my opinion, the answer is No. My research shows that *two
individuals* should be viewed as prime suspects as initiators of the
plot to murder Kennedy, and neither of them worked directly for the
CIA, FBI, Secret Service or other intelligence agencies. Those
individuals were *General Curtis LeMay* and physicist, *Dr. Edward
Teller.* At the time of the assassination, LeMay was a Joint Chief for
the Air Force and was an advisor to Kennedy, although the two men
detested each other according to most accounts. Dr. Teller is credited
by many as the co-developer of the hydrogen bomb; however, many
critics in the scientific community contend that Teller stole
undeserved credit from Dr. Stanlislaw Ulum, the true developer of the
hydrogen bomb.
In the summer and fall of 1963, General LeMay and Dr. Teller were at
odds with President Kennedy over Kennedy's limited test ban treaty.
The treaty outlawed nuclear testing in the ocean, in the atmosphere
and in outer space. It was permissible, however, to continue nuclear
testing underground. LeMay and Teller represented a faction of the
military that wanted to explore the concept of anti-missile defense,
which years later became known as the Strategic Defense Initiative
(SDI, nicked "Star Wars" by the media) under the Reagan
administration. Anti-missile defense technology was a topic of serious
discussion during a Senate debate over Kennedy's limited test ban
treaty back in 1963. (Reference Senate Committee on Foreign Relations,
Aug. 12th through Aug. 27, 1963.) Although LeMay and Teller headed
opposition to the treaty, transcripts of testimonies and questioning
of witnesses before the stated Senate committee reveal that only a
handful of Senators actually supported the treaty whole-heartedly. It
was Kennedy's charm, charisma and straight talk to the people of the
world that ultimately caused the treaty to be ratified by over 100
nations. The Senate was forced to pass the treaty because Kennedy made
it difficult to publicly oppose it, although in my opinion, most
politicians in Washington, DC secretly opposed it. My opinion is based
solely on reading the transcript of the stated Senate hearings.
There was frustration among many senators and military advisers of a
state of "euphoria" created by Kennedy among the citizens of the
planet. I placed quotes around the word euphoria because it was
mentioned several times by various people in the Senate subcommittee.
After reading the transcript, and sadly, the only people who truly
seemed to support the treaty were as follows:
General Max Taylor, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs
Senator Hubert Humphrey (Minnesota)
Senator Frank Church (Idaho)
Senator James William Fulbright (Arkansas)
This list of names is obviously subject to interpretation because many
politicians spoke in typical Washington ease where they did not want
to reveal their true agendas. Having stated that, the four stated
names (Taylor, Humphrey, Church and Fulbright) made it clear that they
supported the treaty whole-heartedly. In my opinion, none of the Joint
Chiefs who reported to General Taylor truly supported the treaty, but
they gave it lukewarm endorsement because the JC Chairman and the
President supported it. As a result, they were in no position to
publicly challenge the treaty, and generally did not with the
exception of General LeMay who was highly critical of the treaty on
one hand, but when asked directly if he supported it, he claimed he
did.
With that understanding, I would conclude that the people who
initiated the assassination were more or less carrying out the wishes
of most of the Senators, Congressmen and Joint Chiefs in 1963 (with
the exception of General Taylor of course). Regarding the treaty,
Kennedy had the support of the American people and the people of the
world, but he did not have the support of people within the federal
government in the United States. In my opinion, Kennedy's murder was a
coup d'état supported directly or indirectly by virtually every
Senator and Congressman in Washington, DC in the summer of 1963, plus
the Joint Chiefs, minus their Chairman, Max Taylor. As a result, US
intelligence became a collective tool of the people who ran the US
government in the summer of 1963. So blaming the murder mainly on the
CIA is somewhat unfair and incorrect, in my opinion. The CIA was
carrying out the wishes of most people of authority within the federal
government, and that was the removal of Kennedy by rifle fire because
it was generally concluded that he was too intelligent and too beloved
to be destroyed politically or removed by any means other than murder.
In 1968, the popular British rock group, The Rolling Stones, described
President Kennedy's murder very well in the song, "Sympathy For The
Devil." The song was written by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, but
Jagger is credited by most people as the primary lyricist of the tune.
In interviews, Jagger has claimed the song was inspired by Mikhail
Bulgakov's novel The Master and Margarita.
Here are the key lyrics that describe the murder of President Kennedy
and his brother Bobby:
"I watched with glee while your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades for the gods they made.
"I shouted out, 'Who killed the Kennedys?'
When after all it was you and me."
Actually it wasn't really "you and me," as Jagger claimed. It was our
so-called elected officials. They are the ones who killed the
Kennedys, in my opinion. So it is a mistake to blame things solely on
the CIA. That was Garrison's biggest mistake, in my opinion. On the
other hand, had he not been around to do the important work that he
did, I would unable to criticize him for this small oversight.
Again, Jim Garrison was a great man and a very patriotic individual.
Salvador Astucia
David Von Pein
That sums up Garrison pretty well. He was certainly a nut, and
probably belonged "in a nutshell".
Anyone who seeks to prop up Earling Carothers (Jim) Garrison as "An
American patriot of the highest order" must be "high" on something
themselves. Especially in light of what we KNOW Garrison did to a
completely-innocent man named Clay Shaw in 1969.
Salvador Astucia has once again proven that CTers of the world just
have no clue as to where to look for the truth regarding the events of
November 22, 1963.
A person would be more likely to find some of the truth re. the
assassination under a rock in their back yard after a heavy rain than
they would be when looking through Jim Garrison's files relating to
11/22/63.
cdddraftsman
Thanks DVP .......
Never truer words spoken !
Unless
You take into consideration
That the jury who pronounced the ulogy on Jim
Garrisons
Outlandish , Preposterous , Outragious and Astonishing
Theory
of ' Who Killed JFK '
Said so after deliberating less than an hour before
reaching a verdict
Which
also
INCLUDING BATHROOM BREAKS !
IMO
This Speaks Volumes Against Him Being Even Remotely Credible .
How does Astucia speculate around this problem ?
The same way CTer's have ignored the
Mountain of Evidence
against
LHO
for the past 44 years .
They simply
ignor
it
*
Salvador Astucia
The fact that Garrison gets bad reviews in Usenet discussion forums is
yet another strong indicator that the guy was genuine, and his
findings were right on the money. The federal government has totally
penetrated Usenet. Everyone knows it.
Salvador
PS. Please don't ask when is your check arriving in the mail, or say
to wear a tin foil hat. The feds are in serious need of comedy
lessons.
David Von Pein
Hey, Bud....did you know that we've been penetrated? I didn't feel any
penetration. Did you?
How about you other LNers? Ed? Tom L.? Chuck? Ken? Samantha?
>>> "The feds are in serious need of comedy lessons." <<<
But one thing's for dang sure -- we've got plenty of CT comedy right
here at good ol' Google Groups -- including this All-Star roster of
conspiracy-loving clowns:
Salvador "I LOVE JIMBO GARRISON" Astucia.
Walt "BRENNAN *DESCRIBED* THE WEST-END WINDOW" Mega-Kook (last name
unknown).
Gil "KENNEDY WAS TRYING TO COUGH UP A BULLET" Jesus.
Donald "DANNY ARCE KILLED KENNEDY" Willis.
Tom "EVERYTHING I SAY IS TOTAL BULLSHIT" Rossley.
Thomas "TWO HEAD SHOTS FROM THE *REAR*" Purvis.
Benjamin "EXPLAIN EVERY LAST THING ON MY LIST OF 45 QUESTIONS OR I GET
TO BELIEVE IN SOME FAR-OUT CRAZY CONSPIRACY-SLANTED SHIT" Holmes.
David "ZAPRUDER PROBABLY WASN'T EVEN UP ON THAT PEDESTAL AT ALL ON
NOV. 22" Healy.
Plus several other CTers whose tales of unsupportable fiction rival
that of Hitchcock and Stephen King.
And to give Walt The Mega-Kook an extra plug here (just for the laughs
he invariably brings with each of his posts).....here is what Walter
said about me only a few short days ago (this should make Sal smile a
bit):
"I don't know about his {DVP's} life......but he's required to post,
and propagate, the official government line. That's his job....and
he's being well paid with our tax dollars." -- Walt (aka: Mega-Kook);
10/02/07
Please stick around Salvador. We need fresh laughs. And it appears
perhap your sickening (but hilarious) Garrison-loving crap will be
able to provide those chuckles. Thank you.
rwa...@despammed.com
> >>> "After re-reading the book that changed my life in 1992, there is little doubt in my mind that Jim Garrison was the real deal." <<<
>
> Oh, brother.
>
>
Do a google search on Salvador Astucia. You'll be amazed at what you
find. Lord god.
David Von Pein
A lot of Garrison-endorsing stuff, huh?
cdddraftsman
>
>
> The federal government has totally
> penetrated Usenet. Everyone knows it.
>
> Salvador
>
You'd be best informing Sak'0'nuts about your explosive theory , his
rear end gets
penetrated every hour and he has no problem posting JFK conspiracy
hoaxs .
Want proof ?
Rossley's Home Page :
http://tomrossley.home.comcast.net/
Is Rossley getting overly ripe for the Care Home ? :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=2vnqo9u&s=2
Gils donkey gets it :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=mauzo4&s=2
The King of Funk ! :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=2iau87p&s=2
Rossley on Route I-80 :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=8vuav4&s=2
The America Rossley Remembers :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=nn19hz&s=2
Hate mail to justme :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=122dbm9&s=2
Pakistany Army : Holmes was no .... :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=14jch75&s=2
JFK's Comments To Rossley :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=27yjnt&s=2
Ben Holmes Cornspiracy Karate Chopper :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=nvqkig&s=2
House Wife of the Year :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2vwyzaw&s=2
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=53smyyu
Trailer Trash Queens of ACJ :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4tgyj2t
Spotlight :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=5yim92w&s=1
Healy's Lawn Service :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=4ka2p8m&s=1
Quote *Gil*oden : " Did Nellie Shoot JFK " :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=1h7e3l&s=2
Even His Own Jackass Disagree's :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=2hduniv&s=2
Conspiracy Coo-Coo Clinic :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2m5z30y&s=2
Gay Sewer Men Assassins Do Dallas ! :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4y9zy12
LHO : I want my lawyer ! :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4r7trb6
Conspiray Cow Patties / 25ct (Cheap ! ) :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4mrcew6
Rossley's Senile Senior Scooter :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=63mbg4h
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6ah0yvc
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4ue41th
Hijacked ! Battle To Find *Rubba Lips* Stolen Brain :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=508eeli
Prickmobile :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=53ylqvl
Boner Land :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4uemanm
Rocket Man : Lone Proves SBT Impossible :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=62dd2xw
Benny ' The Dwarf ' Holmes's John Welsh Hodges :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4vn15sn
Message from the CIA : Eat your Kookies ! :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4vd43mb
Sak ' 0 ' Nuts :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4po8jz5
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=53ifbih
Read Your Scriptures You Abominations ! :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4p482g6
Limbo man ! :
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=4502jwp
Grassey Knoll Investigations :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=3yefvjp
His overwhelming hatred of me for
exposing his seditionistic attitudes :
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=2qks4s3
His site is always under Con-Struction :
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=2l9jfrl
Rossley is Mad ! :
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=2yy6vph
Speculating with the Bushman :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=2q9i4r5
Osama Bin Rossley on LIFE mag. cover :
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=33lcx05
His version of the ' Official Records ' :
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=29ers7r
A Thank You Card from MJ :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=2ephdsm
Caught in the Act ! :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2ewiikz
Will sell you your version of the ' Deed ' :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=4d4g17o
Rossley in DPD Jail ! Hahahahahahaha ! :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2d8pf2h
Conn. Registered Sex Offender :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=2f0c32w
With Fetzer :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=3yrvimd
Rossley in DPD Jail ! Hahahahahahaha ! :
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2d8pf2h
Another of Rossley's Client's :
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=2lxgpb7
His ' catchers ' list :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=40f6ro8
Rossley / Groden :
http://tinypic.com/fullsize.php?pic=34eqn40
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 1 6.5 Carcano, Oswald rifle :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACT0aKWEAow&mode=related&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK Part 2 Carcano 6 shots, 11 seconds :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPrI7JnsKeo&mode=related&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 3 , Carcano 7 shots in 6.8 seconds :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-qQBl5ZuPc&mode=related&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 4 Gov Connelly's position :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lCNLa8a4sk&mode=related&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 5 "The Magic Bullet" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om05TQYyuUI&mode=related&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 7, "The Badge Man" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adfkLKXmL6A
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 6 "The Magic Bullet" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOU3pvKkBU8
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 8 "Gordon Arnold" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NprUqYrLWVE&mode=user&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 9 "Case against LHO" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c8DDEhg6WQ&mode=user&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 10, The Tippit murder. :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpLkUp2j_mw&mode=user&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 11, Brenanns testimony :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTW72kYE6Zc&mode=user&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 12, Mac Wallace's fingerprint :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khA2XdGPQqk&mode=user&search=
Oswald assassinated JFK, Part 13, Head movement :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnYd2qgQnJk&mode=user&search=
Oswald shoot :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeMaEwwvwU
The Kennedy Assassination - Beyond Conspiracy :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikIRB3lvFvw&mode=related&search=
Lining up the "magic" bullet :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kEh3Kgwhk0&mode=related&search=
Vincent Bugliosi - No Evidence for JFK / Oswald Conspiracies :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JktLkQbtVbE&mode=related&search=
Salvador Astucia
> On Oct 4, 9:15 pm, Salvador Astucia <cropduster...@cs.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The federal government has totally
> > penetrated Usenet. Everyone knows it.
>
> > Salvador
>
> You'd be best informing Sak'0'nuts about your explosive theory , his
> rear end gets
> penetrated every hour and he has no problem posting JFK conspiracy
> hoaxs .
Such high school locker room vulgarity. Whom do you think you're
fooling? Certainly you don't expect to win any minds and hearts with
that tactic. The approach is obviously designed to freighten the
target -- in this case me. Again, without getting personal, I truly
enjoy seeing Usenet regulars trash the late Jim Garrison because I
understand that most Usenet posters are trash and human filth
themselves -- willing to shoot their own mothers if the price is
right. Such contempt for Mr. Garrison only increases my admiration and
respect for him as a person and the great work he did. Consider the
source. We'll just leave it there for now.
Salvador
Salvador Astucia
wrote:
The Thought Police strike again. You guys really hate Jim Garrison.
Salvador Astucia
Now seems like a good time to try and bring some sanity back to this
thread since the Thought Police has arrived. They make no effort to
act civilized these days.
Below is a re-post of something I posted yesterday, and it has upset
the Thought Police quite a bit.
Salvador
-------------------------------------
From: Salvador Astucia <cropduster...@cs.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Just re-read On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim
Garrison
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:29:41 -0700
On Oct 3, 5:02 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
[Salvador wrote:]
> >>> "After re-reading the book that changed my life in 1992, there is lit=
tle doubt in my mind that Jim Garrison was the real deal." <<<
>
coup d'=E9tat supported directly or indirectly by virtually every
Salvador Astucia
[headers]
--------------------------------
Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!
19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Salvador Astucia <cropduster...@cs.com>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Just re-read On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim
Garrison
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 04:29:41 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
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Message-ID: <1191497381.7...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>
References: <1191396681.2...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
<1191402124.4...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.251.254.226
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1191497381 18702 127.0.0.1 (4 Oct 2007
11:29:41 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:29:41 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <1191402124.4...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
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Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: 19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com; posting-
host=69.251.254.226;
posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0
black...@aol.com
that the quality of Garrison's work can be best judged by those who
criticized him. True paranoid idiocy.
tomnln
It includes a page showing tom lowery's Sexual Perversity>>>
http://whokilledjfk.net/tom_lowery.htm
"cdddraftsman" <cdddra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1191570637.2...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Salvador Astucia
You must be wearing a tin foil hat :-)
Hey, where's my paycheck? :-)
The Thought Police are in serious need of comedy lessons.
Salvador
aeffects
> >>> "Do a google search on Salvador Astucia. You'll be amazed at what you find." <<<
>
> A lot of Garrison-endorsing stuff, huh?
mention Garrison and Lane's name -- you pukes head for the hills
shaking with terror
Salvador Astucia
They totally reveal their cards by trashing Garrison the way they do.
When the FBI or CIA or whoever pays people to post propaganda on
Usenet discussion groups, I thought they were supposed to be subtle.
Anyone who has read On the Trail of the Assassins, by Jim Garrison,
knows Garrison was an extremely intelligent individual. To trash-talk
the guy with high school locker room jokes that aren't even funny is a
dead giveaway of who these so-called "puke heads" work for.
Salvador Astucia
Bud
Salvador Astucia wrote:
> It was a refreshing experience. An informant (FBI I think) had
> befriended me years ago when I first became a big fan of Garrison's.
> (I had a few Kennedy-related projects before writing a book about the
> assassination. My efforts got media attention which I assume is why an
> informant was sent to befriend me.) This guy was always running down
> Garrison, claiming he was a fake -- an FBI or CIA stooge. I must
> admit, I had my doubts when my former friend reminded me that Garrison
> was once an FBI agent. A few years ago I realized my so-called friend
> was a stooge for the federal government, and he had been keeping tabs
> on me for years. I dropped him as a friend in 2002.
I hope you changed the combination on your thermos.
Bud
Bud
Hell, Garrison performed a public service. Without him, you kooks
could pretend that the idea of conspiracy had a chance in a court of
law.
black...@aol.com
Agagain: If you regard Garrison by those who opposed him, you are
intellectually closed.
aeffects
off your knees, hon!
aeffects
> >>> "The fact that Garrison gets bad reviews in Usenet discussion forums is yet another strong indicator that the guy was genuine, and his findings were right on the money. The federal government has totally penetrated Usenet. Everyone knows it." <<<
>
> Hey, Bud....did you know that we've been penetrated? I didn't feel any
> penetration. Did you?
>
> How about you other LNers? Ed? Tom L.? Chuck? Ken? Samantha?
>
> >>> "The feds are in serious need of comedy lessons." <<<
>
> But one thing's for dang sure -- we've got plenty of CT comedy right
> here at good ol' Google Groups -- including this All-Star roster of
> conspiracy-loving clowns:
you love it, can't wait to post to this board as often as possible,
quote yourself all day long as if your an expert..... LMFAO! Your
fuckling whackier than ANY CT posting to this board.... that's what
happens when you put all your eggs in one basket, hon! Bug is out,
that's O-U-T, he's finished, no more books, no TV series and NO
documentary -- gird those loins boyo, you need another obsession.....
<snip Davey's nonsense>
aeffects
> Salvador Astucia wrote:
> > It was a refreshing experience. An informant (FBI I think) had
> > befriended me years ago when I first became a big fan of Garrison's.
> > (I had a few Kennedy-related projects before writing a book about the
> > assassination. My efforts got media attention which I assume is why an
> > informant was sent to befriend me.) This guy was always running down
> > Garrison, claiming he was a fake -- an FBI or CIA stooge. I must
> > admit, I had my doubts when my former friend reminded me that Garrison
> > was once an FBI agent. A few years ago I realized my so-called friend
> > was a stooge for the federal government, and he had been keeping tabs
> > on me for years. I dropped him as a friend in 2002.
>
> I hope you changed the combination on your thermos.
after 3 years Dudster, finally you're showing promise
aeffects
without Garrison you Lone Nut imbeciles would still be pulling pud at
10th and Irving
David Von Pein
See the babbling, incoherent kook named Healy....411 Elm
Street....Code 3....Use caution....The kook in question is armed with
planted bullets and an invisible Mauser....Kook also likes to call all
men "hon"....Approach with extreme caution.
"One-Adam-Twelve, roger."
[JACK WEBB-LIKE STIFFNESS MODE "ON"....]
"Well, Reed, hit the reds....looks like we've been in kook country
ever since we were tranferred to Dallas. This is the third day in a
row we've had a Code 3 "Incoherent Healy-Kook" call at the Book
Depository. He must be having a hard time peddling his Z-Film Hoax
bullshit to the Museum visitors."
"Yeah, Malloy.....yeah."
[/WEBB MODE "OFF"]
tomnln
Sounds like David wrote BOTH.
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1191732470.6...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
Bud
How long did the jury take to reject Garrison`s case?