Where the LN side screws up
Gil Jesus
to inform them of a list of things which are NOT evidence and would
defintiely be thrown out as evidence by a criminal court:
Lies are not evidence
Altered statements are not evidence
identifications from unfair police lineups are not evidence
substituted items are not evidence
statements obtained as a result of coercion or threats are not
evidence
anything with a broken "chain of possession" is not evidence
theories, assumptions and conjecture are not evidence
insults are not evidence
comments or opinions are not evidence
---------------------------------------------------------
therefore:
CE 399 is not evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgzjW4gdMaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5d4p4FKsY
ID of Oswald from police lineups is not evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JskQDYovBGs
the shells from the Tippit slaying are not evidence
The Warren Commission Report and its contents are not evidence
YoHarvey
Our little pathological liar ATTEMPTING to educate the LN's???? This
misfit from Ma. who has NO clue what constitutes evidence or the
scientific method lecturing people. You have got to be kidding me.
This uneducated racist homophobe who couldn't spell cat if you gave
him the "c" and the "t" wanting to enlighten. Man, God does have a
sense of humor.
justm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Notice Jesus did not include witness videos in his list. It's all he
has to offer, along with his lies and misleading comments posted to or
on the videos. He's pathetic to say the least.
cdddraftsman
> The trolls seem to have no idea what constitutes evidence so I'd like
> to inform them of a list of things which are NOT evidence and would
> defintiely be thrown out as evidence by a criminal court:
>
>
> > > in the US today : Eyewitness testimony ! :
> > > Here are sober looking, apparently honest ordinary citizens saying things
> > > with full sincerity. They wouldn't be lying, would they? To evaluate witness > > > testimony, we have to keep a few rules in mind :
> > > Is this person a Discount Tellers of Tall Tales ?
> > > and these : *
>
> Lies are not evidence
>
>
> > > That's determined by jury members . Not before hand by you .
>
> Altered statements are not evidence
>
> identifications from unfair Police lineups are not evidence
>
>
> > > Police lineups are admissible in a court of law and can be weighed as to
> > > there value by jury members .
>
>
> substituted items are not evidence
>
>
> > > Forensic recreations are used all the time and are basically substituted
> > > for the real thing every day in every courtroom in the US .
>
>
> > > Theory's are admissible (SBT) in a court of law and can be weighed as to
> > > there value by jury members .
>
>
> comments or opinions are not evidence
>
>
> > > Since over 80% of your silly ass video's are just that , it puts you in a world
> > > hurt .
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> therefore:
>
> CE 399 is not evidence
>
>
> > > Submitted as evidence in trial of LHO ( Bug in UK ) and accepted as
> > > evidence to be weighed by jurors .
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgzjW4gdMaQ
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV5d4p4FKsY
>
> ID of Oswald from police lineups is not evidence
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JskQDYovBGs
>
>
> > > Debatable ............
>
> the shells from the Tippit slaying are not evidence
>
>
> > > Marked as evidence at scene of crime , witnesses saw LHO eject shells
> > > from revolver , there eye witness testimony is also admissible .
>
> The Warren Commission Report and its contents are not evidence
>
>
> > > Since they gathered all the available solid physical evidence , it could of
> > > been used in a trial of a live LHO . At Clay Shaw trial , it was ruled
> > > inadmissible due to being hearsay and not directely linked with
> > > Clay Shaw himself , since he didn't appear in the Report .
> > > And since all eyewitness testimony ( Taken by the WCR or not ) is part
> > > and parcell of this BS you've gathered , it is also not evidence .
> > > Heheheheheh ! Stuck your foot in big mouth again ! .............tl
* :
Jean Hill, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jhill.htm
a woman who told of seeing a Grassy Knoll shooter, of seeing Jack Ruby
in Dealey Plaza, and of being waylaid and intimidated by phony "Secret
Service agents" in the minutes following the assassination.
Roger Craig, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/craig.htm
who testified to seeing Oswald flee the scene in a Rambler station
wagon with an accomplice, to seeing a Mauser recovered in the sixth
floor of the Depository, and to have witnessed a confrontation in
Dallas Policy headquarters that implicated Ruth Paine in the
assassination.
Beverly Oliver, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oliver.htm
who claims to have seen Oswald and Ruby together in the Carousel Club,
and to have photographed the assassination in Dealey Plaza (with the
FBI confiscating the film).
Ed Hoffman, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hoffman.htm
who claimed to have seen a Grassy Knoll shooter.
Charles Crenshaw, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/crenshaw.htm
doctor at Parkland Hospital, who claimed that President
Johnson called while Lee Oswald was being treated and demanded that a
confession be extracted.
Robert Morrow, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/morrow.htm
who claims to have been a CIA agent, and to have supplied weapons for
the shooters in Dealey Plaza.
John Elrod, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/laf.htm
who claimed to have shared a cell in the Dallas jail with Lee Oswald.
James Files, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/files.htm
who claims to have been the Grassy Knoll shooter in Dealey Plaza.
Gordon Novel, http://www.jfk-online.com/novelpost.html
who claimed to be a CIA agent, first worked with the Garrison
investigation and then turned into a Garrison suspect.
Judyth Vary Baker, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm
a fellow employee of Oswald's at the Reily Coffee Company in the
summer of 1963, claims to have been Oswald girlfriend, and involved
with him in a secret bioweapons project that intended to kill Castro
but ended up killing Kennedy.
Richard Case Nagell, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nagell1.htm
who claimed to have worked for the CIA and the KGB, and to have had
"foreknowledge" of the JFK assassination.
Robert Knudsen, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/knudsen.txt
Navy photographer who claimed to have photographed Kennedy's autopsy.
Tom Tilson, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/tilson.htm
who claims to have seen a man with a gun (presumably a Grassy Knoll
shooter) scramble down the slope behind the Knoll in the minutes
following the assassination.
Madeleine Brown, http://davesjfk.com/browns.html
who claimed to have been LBJ's lover, and to have attended a very
suspicious party on the eve of the assassination.
Gordon Arnold http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/arnold1.htm
claimed to have been on the Grassy Knoll during the shooting, to have
heard a shot whiz past his left ear, and to have been confronted by a
man who confiscated his camera.
Marita Lorenz http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/denial.htm#marita
who told of a "caravan" of cars driving assassins from Miami to Dallas
on the eve of the assassination.
It's striking that this is only a very partial list!
Watch For Selectivity
It might seem obvious that if we eliminate witnesses who are making up
tall tales that we could believe the others. And if all truthful
witnesses agreed with each other, then we should indeed believe any
truthful witness we see.
Alas, truthful witnesses don't always agree with each other.
"Truthful" doesn't necessarily mean "accurate." Quite often, their
accounts are all over the place. So by simply picking certain truthful
witnesses, and ignoring other truthful witnesses, one can usually
support one's pet theory.
Mark Lane's
video "Plot to Kill JFK : Rush To Judgment" shows viewers several
witnesses who believed they heard shots from the Grassy Knoll. Lane
never tells his viewers that a majority of witnesses who had an
opinion about the direction of the shots thought they came from the
direction of the Depository, rather than the Knoll.
Gary Aguilar
has produced a compendium of witnesses from Parkland Hospital and the
the Bethesda Naval Hospital (where Kennedy's autopsy was done) who
testified to the back of Kennedy's head being blown out - presumably
by a shot from the front. For Aguilar, these witnesses show that the
autopsy photos and x-rays (which show Kennedy being shot from behind)
are faked. But Aguilar is highly selective in how he quotes his
witnesses. He stresses testimony that fits his theory, and ignores
testimony from the same witnesses that contradicts it.
Witnesses Make Wild and Wacky Statements
Anybody who reads the unfiltered and unselected witness testimony will
quickly find that even honest sober witnesses have wild, wacky, and
often downright bizarre elements in their testimony. Consider, for
example:
J.C. Price, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jcprice2.gif
who thought that Kennedy and Connally were in different cars in the
motorcade, and that a final shot was fired at the motorcade as much as
five minutes after the first shots.
Sam Holland, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/holland.gif
who thought that after Kennedy was shot Jackie "jumped up and tried to
get over in the back seat to him."
Bill Newman, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/newman.gif
who thought that the President, after the first shot rang out, "jumped
up in his seat" and "was standing up."
Austin Miller,
who thought the sound of shots during the shooting came from inside
the President's limo.
Mrs. Joseph Eddie Dean, http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0435a.htm
who said that after the first shot she saw Kennedy "reach to the back
of his neck" before slumping down.
Jack Franzen, http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0435b.htm
who said he saw Secret Service agents in the car behind the
presidential limousine"unloading from the car, some with firearms in
their hands . . . ."
Marvin Faye Chism, who said:
The President's wife immediately stood over him, and she pulled him
up, and lay him down in the seat, and she stood up over him in the
car. The President was standing and waving and smiling at the people
when the shot happened. . . . The two men in the front of the car
stood up, and then when the second shot was fired, they all fell down
and the car took off just like that. (Decker Exhibit 5323, 19H472)
A. J. Millican, who testified that:
Just after the President's car passed, I heard three shots come from
up toward Houston and Elm right by the Book Depository Building, and
then immediately I heard two more shots come from the Arcade between
the Book Store and the Underpass, and then three more shots came from
the same direction only sounded further back. (Decker Exhibit 5323,
19H486)
Millican also testified that: "A man standing on the South side of Elm
Street, was either hit in the foot, or the ankle and fell
down." (ibid.)
Sometimes, it's easy to see how the witness might have been wrong.
Jack Franzen, for example, probably saw reporters and photographers
leaving the various press cars (several cars behind the Presidential
limo), and perhaps also got a glance of Agent Hickey in the follow-up
car brandishing an AR-15. Millican may well have seen someone like
Malcolm Summers hit the ground and assumed he had been shot.
But in other cases, heaven knows where the witness got that piece of
testimony.
Cop Drove Cycle Up Grassy Slope: A Mass Delusion?
About a minute after the shooting, motorcycle officer Clyde Haygood,
who was far back in the motorcade, reached the point on Elm Street in
front of the Grassy Knoll, and tried to jump the curb with his cycle
and ride up the grassy slope. He was unable to jump the curb and
parked his cycle in the street, got off, and ran up the Knoll toward
the corner of the Triple Underpass and the Stockade Fence.
So what did the witnesses say? Several said he drove the cycle part
way up the slope!
James Simmons http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/simmons.gif
said a motorcycle cop "drove up the grassy slope toward the Texas
School Book Depository Building, jumped off his motorcycle and then
ran up the hill toward the Memorial Arches."
Nolan Potter http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/potter.gif
said that he noticed a policeman drive his motorcycle up the slope
towards the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Sam Holland said a motorcycle cop "tried to ride up the embankment on
his motorcycle and it tuned over about halfway up the embankment."
Holland reported he then saw the officer "run on over to the fence
with the gun in his hand." (Source: Mark Lane video "The Plot to Kill
JFK: Rush to Judgment")
Lee Bowers
said he saw a cop who "rode a motorcycle up the incline coming up from
the lower portion of Elm Street, and he rode perhaps two-thirds of the
way up or more before he deserted his motorcycle." (Source: Mark Lane
video, "The Plot of Kill JFK: Rush to Judgment")
All this would be sufficient to cause one to believe that indeed a cop
rode his cycle up the grassy slope, except for the fact that both
Clyde Haygood's http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/haygood.htm
testimony and copious photographic evidence from Dealey Plaza shows he
did no such thing.
Tricks Memory Plays http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/memory.htm
If witness perceptions are often problematic, the problems are
multiplied by the issue of memory. Even assuming absolutely accurate
intitial perceptions, over time witness accounts come to have less and
less of the literal truth, and more and more things that have been
added as witnesses think about what happened, talk about it, and hear
about it.
A Scholarly Perspective http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/zaid.htm
Dennis Ford and Mark Zaid are two assassination researchers who have
read the scholarly literature on witness testimony and applied it to
the Kennedy assassination witnesses. Their essay, "Eyewitness
Testimony, Memory, and Assassination Research" is "must" reading for
any researcher.
tomnln
Yo(Momma)Harvey)?
"YoHarvey" <bail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189682788.3...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
YoHarvey
> Which one of those witness interviews on video do you reject
> Yo(Momma)Harvey)?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I reject ALL eyewitness, pro or con. They are not reliable either
way.
eca...@tx.rr.com
Mr ;^D
> Jean Hill,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jhill.htm
>
> a woman who told of seeing a Grassy Knoll shooter, of seeing Jack Ruby
> in Dealey Plaza, and of being waylaid and intimidated by phony "Secret
> Service agents" in the minutes following the assassination.
>
> Roger Craig,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/craig.htm
>
> who testified to seeing Oswald flee the scene in a Rambler station
> wagon with an accomplice, to seeing a Mauser recovered in the sixth
> floor of the Depository, and to have witnessed a confrontation in
> Dallas Policy headquarters that implicated Ruth Paine in the
> assassination.
>
> Beverly Oliver,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oliver.htm
>
> who claims to have seen Oswald and Ruby together in the Carousel Club,
> and to have photographed the assassination in Dealey Plaza (with the
> FBI confiscating the film).
>
> Ed Hoffman,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hoffman.htm
>
> who claimed to have seen a Grassy Knoll shooter.
>
> Charles Crenshaw,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/crenshaw.htm
>
> doctor at Parkland Hospital, who claimed that President
> Johnson called while Lee Oswald was being treated and demanded that a
> confession be extracted.
>
> Robert Morrow,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/morrow.htm
>
> who claims to have been a CIA agent, and to have supplied weapons for
> the shooters in Dealey Plaza.
>
> John Elrod,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/laf.htm
>
> who claimed to have shared a cell in the Dallas jail with Lee Oswald.
>
> James Files,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/files.htm
>
> who claims to have been the Grassy Knoll shooter in Dealey Plaza.
>
> Gordon Novel,http://www.jfk-online.com/novelpost.html
>
> who claimed to be a CIA agent, first worked with the Garrison
> investigation and then turned into a Garrison suspect.
>
> Judyth Vary Baker,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm
>
> a fellow employee of Oswald's at the Reily Coffee Company in the
> summer of 1963, claims to have been Oswald girlfriend, and involved
> with him in a secret bioweapons project that intended to kill Castro
> but ended up killing Kennedy.
>
> Richard Case Nagell,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nagell1.htm
>
> who claimed to have worked for the CIA and the KGB, and to have had
> "foreknowledge" of the JFK assassination.
>
> Robert Knudsen,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/knudsen.txt
>
> Navy photographer who claimed to have photographed Kennedy's autopsy.
>
> Tom Tilson,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/tilson.htm
>
> who claims to have seen a man with a gun (presumably a Grassy Knoll
> shooter) scramble down the slope behind the Knoll in the minutes
> following the assassination.
>
> Madeleine Brown,http://davesjfk.com/browns.html
>
> who claimed to have been LBJ's lover, and to have attended a very
> suspicious party on the eve of the assassination.
>
> Gordon Arnoldhttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/arnold1.htm
>
> claimed to have been on the Grassy Knoll during the shooting, to have
> heard a shot whiz past his left ear, and to have been confronted by a
> man who confiscated his camera.
>
> Marita Lorenzhttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/denial.htm#marita
> J.C. Price,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jcprice2.gif
>
> who thought that Kennedy and Connally were in different cars in the
> motorcade, and that a final shot was fired at the motorcade as much as
> five minutes after the first shots.
>
> Sam Holland,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/holland.gif
>
> who thought that after Kennedy was shot Jackie "jumped up and tried to
> get over in the back seat to him."
>
> Bill Newman,http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/newman.gif
>
> who thought that the President, after the first shot rang out, "jumped
> up in his seat" and "was standing up."
>
> Austin Miller,
>
> who thought the sound of shots during the shooting came from inside
> the President's limo.
>
> Mrs. Joseph Eddie Dean,http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0...
>
> who said that after the first shot she saw Kennedy "reach to the back
> of his neck" before slumping down.
>
> Jack Franzen,http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0...
> read more ยป- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...