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JUDYTH VARY BAKER

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David Von Pein

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May 4, 2009, 1:33:46 PM5/4/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/38ed58130bab3249


"I have given up everything for the sake of one person--Lee
Oswald--and I seek his exoneration and vindication." -- Judyth Vary
Baker; 04/10/2009


The above quote is a truly sad one indeed.

Judyth Vary Baker has some serious problems it would seem. I often
wonder if Judyth has ever even studied ANY of the many, many pieces of
hard evidence that easily would have convicted her "lover" (Lee Harvey
Oswald) in a court of law, had he lived to stand trial, such as the
stuff discussed in the articles below?

www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4a6b3390021d657c
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8845d85a86407d31
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/beb8390c3526124d

My guess is that Judyth probably has not seriously studied and
evaluated the hard evidence that exists against Lee Oswald in the TWO
murders that he was charged with in 1963.

Nor has Judyth focused very heavily on another very important aspect
of the JFK murder case -- the ACTIONS and the PROVABLE LIES of her
"lover", both before and after the assassination of President Kennedy.

Judyth even admits (as recently as her April 10, 2009, e-mail to Rich
DellaRosa linked at the top of this post) that "I am not a
'researcher' about the JFK assassination".

In short, Judyth Vary Baker either has been inflicted with a terminal
case of "denial" regarding the obvious guilt of Lee Oswald, or
(perhaps) she can be defined as author Vincent Bugliosi defines her in
VB's 2007 JFK book "Reclaiming History" -- "a sick puppy".

========================


"The story Judyth [Vary Baker] came up with was so fraudulent on
its face that even most conspiracy theorists have ganged up on her to
debunk it. .... Judyth's story started when she saw Oliver Stone's
fantasy film 'JFK' in 1998 and decided she had an even bigger fantasy
story to tell, partially through the technique of "recovered" memory.

"And as with so many of the fantastic tales told by nuts in the
assassination saga, there's some small kernel of truth on which she
built her fable: the fact that for a short period in the late spring
and summer of 1963, she may have worked for the same company in New
Orleans that Oswald did, William B. Reily and Company, Inc. ....

"Before she got her job there, Judyth...was on the fast track to
a bright and promising future flipping hamburgers at a small White
Castle chain restaurant in New Orleans. But because Judyth had shown
promise [in high school]...for her amateur work on cancer
research...she says she was recruited...into a clandestine project
funded by the CIA and Mafia: developing a bioweapon with which to kill
Fidel Castro. ....

"It was around this time that she met and fell hopelessly in
love with Lee Harvey Oswald, who became a part of the project and with
whom she had a torrid sexual affair.

"In an amusing footnote to the affair, Judyth said that their
feelings for each other got "out of control," and they "were so
desperate we even slept together in a red van that was being
overhauled in Adrian Alba's garage." .... But she said that when Clay
Shaw learned about their lack of money forcing them to make love in
such places, he felt sorry for them and started paying for their
trysts at nice hotels in the city." ....

"Just how does Judyth say she came by her knowledge? She claims
she either personally met conspiracy icons like Jack Ruby, David
Ferrie, Carlos Marcello, Clay Shaw, Guy Banister, et cetera, or Lee
told her about them during pillow talk. So the remarkable 20-year-old,
in just a few months, had more contact in New Orleans with the leading
figures of conspiracy lore than perhaps any other known figure in the
conspiracy community. I, for one, find this to be perfectly
reasonable. ....

"Judyth claims the National Enquirer offered her $600,000 for
her story (an amount the publisher might offer if Jesus returned and
his agent promised an exclusive), but Judyth apparently wasn't
interested. Only British producer Nigel Turner, who has made a fortune
peddling phony stories, gave Judyth national exposure, devoting a full
segment to her on his television show 'The Men Who Killed
Kennedy'. ....

"It is an established fact that the CIA did do research...to
develop some medical concoction to kill Castro. But what we didn't
know until Judyth told us was that the CIA decided to also fund the
motley group in New Orleans [consisting of Judyth, Oswald, and David
Ferrie]. ....

"Judyth Baker has been called a "pathological liar." Although
her story is a lie, this might be too harsh an indictment. From what I
have read, she sounds more like a sick puppy to me. ....

"If anyone even had the smallest doubt that Judyth is a gold-
plated phony, all he or she has to do to remove that doubt is to read
(if you can withstand the pain) Baker's book ["Lee Harvey Oswald: The
True Story Of The Accused Assassin Of President John F. Kennedy By His
Lover"; Volumes 1 and 2]. ....

"Baker's book is a total, embarrassing failure. Is there any way
to stop Judyth from continuing to propagate her fantasy? Two volumes
of nonsense, at this late date, show that the answer to this question
is no."

-- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Pages 539-541 and 543-544 of Endnotes in
"Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F.
Kennedy" (c.2007)

========================

www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3200862-post.html

lazu...@webtv.net

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May 4, 2009, 2:41:19 PM5/4/09
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You may not beieve her so what? She shouldn't be subjected to such
ridicule..btw..does anybody believe a Von Pein post, or care besides the
WC Parrots?

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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May 4, 2009, 3:38:32 PM5/4/09
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>>> "She [Judyth Vary Baker] shouldn't be subjected to such ridicule." <<<

Yeah, Judyth should just be allowed to spout her falsehoods and talk
about her fantasies without so much as a single person even slapping
her on her poor little wrists.

Right, Ol' Laz?

Once again, a CTer (Laz) makes me think of just one word -- Pathetic.


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm

curtjester1

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May 4, 2009, 5:04:43 PM5/4/09
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On May 4, 3:38 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "She [Judyth Vary Baker] shouldn't be subjected to such ridicule." <<<
>
> Yeah, Judyth should just be allowed to spout her falsehoods and talk
> about her fantasies without so much as a single person even slapping
> her on her poor little wrists.
>

What gets me is that people aren't interested in the truthhoods. If
anyone gets too close to conspiracy, they are automatically and
systemetically discredited, like a Madeleine Brown, Jean Hill, Beverly
Oliver, and Judyth Vary Baker. It's no secret that LHO had a penchant
for women especially in Japan and Russia, and Marina for men as well.
It's not even worth a yawn that this would be a scenario, that someone
from a workplace would latch onto someone. All this is so well
documented. What the LNT'ers can't stand is all the CT suspects that
Judyth herself was surrounded by, that were NO mafia and CIA
affiliated. No wonder people like VPeaBrain get so worried into a
lather and his types force a Judyth out of the country when the heat
gets a little hot. If there was no conspiracy there would never have
to have been all this browbeating and persecution. Posts and people
like this are just a dead giveaway to conspiracy, and of course it has
nothing to do whether LHO fired a shot or not.

CJ

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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May 4, 2009, 5:10:10 PM5/4/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/4e262310cbf534b6


RICH DELLA ROSA SAID:

>>> "My [JFKResearch.com] forum is not intended for people who need to hide behind aliases or those who cannot abide by the rules. My members are entitled to know who their audience is when they post and feel confident that they know who can and cannot read their submissions." <<<

DVP SAID:

As I said before, it's a very odd stance to take when it comes to
"Internet Forums" (IMO).

I would think that if people are proud of what they post and they
think it's worthy of being posted on a JFK forum (and why would anyone
post stuff that they DON'T feel is worthy of posting?)....then why on
Earth would any such person object to his or her messages being seen
by the Internet world at-large?

~shrug of bewilderment~

I truly wish Mr. DellaRosa would remove his "Only Members Can Read
Posts" restriction at www.JFKResearch.com, because I'd enjoy reading
some of the stuff that is posted at that forum.

www.DavidVonPein.blogspot.com

David Von Pein

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May 4, 2009, 5:29:49 PM5/4/09
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>>> "No wonder people like [Mr. David R. Von Pein] get so worried into a lather and his types force a Judyth [Vary Baker] out of the country when the heat gets a little hot." <<<


LOL.

Yeah, there's absolutely no possible way for Judyth to spread her "I
Love Lee" fairy tale if she's outside the USA, right Curt? She could
ONLY tell her crazy tale if she resides INSIDE the United States of
America...is that it?


And, btw, I'm not "worried" into any kind of a "lather" at all
regarding Judyth Baker. In fact, I had no idea until very recently
that she was living outside of the USA. And, frankly, I couldn't care
less. And I care even less than that about her silly "Lee And I Were
Lovers" lie.


>>> "If there was no conspiracy[,] there would never have to have been all this browbeating and persecution." <<<


Are you saying that Judyth's fairy tale is NOT deserving of being
persecuted and maligned?


If you're not saying that, then what's your point?


>>> "Posts and people like this are just a dead giveaway to conspiracy, and of course it has nothing to do whether LHO fired a shot or not." <<<

LOL.

I assume Curt J. means me when he says "people like this".

How about that, kids? My posts are a "dead giveaway to conspiracy" in
the JFK murder case.

And all this time I had the feeling that my posts were to be
considered more of a "dead giveaway to LNism".

So, once again, we're treated to a conspiracy kook ("Curt" this time)
turning everything topsy-turvy and upside-down.

IOW -- it's a typical, routine day at the CT office for the conspiracy
nuts.

curtjester1

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May 4, 2009, 5:57:24 PM5/4/09
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On May 4, 5:29 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "No wonder people like [Mr. David R. Von Pein] get so worried into a lather and his types force a Judyth [Vary Baker] out of the country when the heat gets a little hot." <<<
>
> LOL.
>
> Yeah, there's absolutely no possible way for Judyth to spread her "I
> Love Lee" fairy tale if she's outside the USA, right Curt? She could
> ONLY tell her crazy tale if she resides INSIDE the United States of
> America...is that it?
>

Sure there is, but as usual, the media controlled gov't and
buttlicking paramours in the book print industry won't pick up any
major CT renderings. That went as far back as Farewell America when
it wasn't illegal to have a book here but it sure was heck in trying
to get it through the U.S. boundaries to get here. Judyth can't even
stay in one spot. That should put her on a fair playing field, huh?

> And, btw, I'm not "worried" into any kind of a "lather" at all
> regarding Judyth Baker. In fact, I had no idea until very recently
> that she was living outside of the USA. And, frankly, I couldn't care
> less. And I care even less than that about her silly "Lee And I Were
> Lovers" lie.
>

Cared enough to write a silly post, huh? And I am sure you were able
to get some sort of DNA evidence that Judyth and Lee weren't
together?


> >>> "If there was no conspiracy[,] there would never have to have been all this browbeating and persecution." <<<
>
> Are you saying that Judyth's fairy tale is NOT deserving of being
> persecuted and maligned?
>

I don't worry about the ancillary things that the LNT's bring up,
because that's all they have to play with. If they were concerned
about the case and justice, they would know about vaccines, the CIA,
and what was going on at Tulane and in NO at that time period and what
JFK people were involved. You don't have to pick on tabloid Judyth
stuff, you can actually read what was going on in NO by picking up Dr.
Mary's Monkey.

> If you're not saying that, then what's your point?
>

The point is there's no reason to pick on people merely because they
don't like a view in the JFK assassination. If it were just one
person, it would be no big deal. Having an interest in how people
view the assassination beyond that only concedes there must be more at
stake. No one in their right mind would spend a lifetime trying to
troll groups and make disparaging remarks about people.

> >>> "Posts and people like this are just a dead giveaway to conspiracy, and of course it has nothing to do whether LHO fired a shot or not." <<<
>
> LOL.
>
> I assume Curt J. means me when he says "people like this".
>
> How about that, kids? My posts are a "dead giveaway to conspiracy" in
> the JFK murder case.
>
> And all this time I had the feeling that my posts were to be
> considered more of a "dead giveaway to LNism".
>

You're absolutely right. Unfortunately LNism = CT methodology.

> So, once again, we're treated to a conspiracy kook ("Curt" this time)
> turning everything topsy-turvy and upside-down.
>
> IOW -- it's a typical, routine day at the CT office for the conspiracy
> nuts.

Typicical, don't stick with the topic and diffuse by bugging the CT
folk.

CJ

lazu...@webtv.net

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May 4, 2009, 6:04:26 PM5/4/09
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Nice post Curt-you notice Lee and Judyth were hired the same day? Last
time I checked there were 365 days in a year...that would be one heckuva
coincidence right there...her book should be out this fall...I would
like to read it the way she wants..

David Von Pein

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May 4, 2009, 6:16:37 PM5/4/09
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>>> "And I am sure you were able to get some sort of DNA evidence that Judyth and Lee weren't together?" <<<

Typical CT backward thinking -- i.e., the LNers are supposed to prove
that Lee & Judyth weren't humping each other, instead of Judyth having
to prove they were.

As I said, it's another routine day in CT land -- i.e., totally
backwards and goofy in every area.

tomnln

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May 4, 2009, 7:12:02 PM5/4/09
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Say there;

Aren't you the guy(?) who RAN from a debate with me ! ! !


"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bd600557-ebe7-4536...@l5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...

tims...@gmail.com

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May 5, 2009, 5:23:42 AM5/5/09
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When are the Laz family gonna spring for a second email account?

They must be the most cheapskate posters in JFK research, LOL!

KUTGW, Laz! You make tomnln look coherent!

Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

tomnln

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May 5, 2009, 11:41:00 AM5/5/09
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<tims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ba1e2aa-995a-4bf1...@y10g2000prc.googlegroups.com...

Regards,

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tomnln made You look like a FOOL ! ! !>>>

SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm

SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/rob_spencer_page.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

curtjester1

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May 5, 2009, 12:50:58 PM5/5/09
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Yeah Laz, that is beyond coincidental to me about the same day hiring
which also happened to have Reily as one of the NO right wing radicals
who was tight with Arcacha Smith and Ed Butler, and was only one block
from Bannister's office, and that Oswald just happened to meet up with
Judyth in a bus depot line. Also, Oswald was hired without a check.
The day of his hiring too, Oswald got an apartment through a Myrtle
Evans who was a close friend of the family, and she had a hard time
recognizing him (she was used to the real Lee). (read pages 535-6 in
Harvey and Lee.). Anyway I think it was from that busline meeting
that a quick introduction to the medical/lab/rat/cancer experimenters
followed via Oswald introducing her and Oswald getting Judyth an
apartment. I always recommend, Dr Mary's Monkey for a great JFK
read. It goes way beyond Dealey Plaza humdrum stuff. When that book
came out, Judyth was in Belgium and got deported. I can probably get
you an advanced copy of the book as I keep in contact with Judyth
occasionally. I haven't myself, but she did offer it to me. Just
email me if you're interested.

CJ

aeffects

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May 5, 2009, 1:51:17 PM5/5/09
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On May 4, 2:10 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/4e262310cbf534b6
>
> RICH DELLA ROSA SAID:
>
> >>> "My [JFKResearch.com] forum is not intended for people who need to hide behind aliases or those who cannot abide by the rules. My members are entitled to know who their audience is when they post and feel confident that they know who can and cannot read their submissions." <<<
>
> DVP SAID:
>
> As I said before, it's a very odd stance to take when it comes to
> "Internet Forums" (IMO).
>
> I would think that if people are proud of what they post and they
> think it's worthy of being posted on a JFK forum (and why would anyone
> post stuff that they DON'T feel is worthy of posting?)....then why on
> Earth would any such person object to his or her messages being seen
> by the Internet world at-large?
>
> ~shrug of bewilderment~
>
> I truly wish Mr. DellaRosa would remove his "Only Members Can Read
> Posts" restriction atwww.JFKResearch.com, because I'd enjoy reading

> some of the stuff that is posted at that forum.
>
> www.DavidVonPein.blogspot.com

say listen troll.... you have a lone nut meltdown going on here, take
care of what's in front of your face, Ms. Baker can wait....
lmfao!

David Von Pein

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May 5, 2009, 10:05:16 PM5/5/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/0cf17ba761368064


>>> "That's the easy way to avoid discussing tough issues. Just call everyone a liar." <<<

I've called very few people outright "liars". Very, very few, in fact.


By my rough count, I think I've only called three people who are
"connected" in some way with the JFK case "liars" in any of my forum
posts over the years:

1.) Roger Craig
2.) Jean Hill
3.) Judyth Vary Baker


It's possible (and probable) that a few more people could/should be
added to the above list as proven "liars" (such as Paul O'Connor, Ed
Hoffman, and Gordon Arnold, to name just three more); but I think I've
used the word "liar" only when speaking of the three individuals named
above. (Not counting members of JFK newsgroups and forums, of course.)

>>> "Did Judyth ever say Lee was innocent?" <<<


Good gosh, Tony....READ!!

What do you think these words from Judyth's own mouth mean?:

"I have given up everything for the sake of one person--Lee
Oswald--and I seek his exoneration and vindication." -- Judyth Vary

Baker; April 10, 2009


Tony,

Do you think that Judyth is seeking to "exonerate" and "vindicate" a
person whom she believes to be GUILTY of killing President Kennedy and
Officer Tippit? That would be a rather strange (not to mention evil)
thing to do, wouldn't it (even if she DID have a love affair with Lee
Harvey)?


Marsh Addendum---

I've come to the conclusion that Anthony Marsh just simply loves to be
confrontational--regardless of the subject matter or assassination sub-
topic. He just flat-out craves an argument...no matter what.

A curious hobby indeed. But it's one that Anthony has apparently
devoted his life to.

www.Twitter.com/DavidVonPein

Martin Shackelford

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May 6, 2009, 5:16:35 AM5/6/09
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McAdams claims Judyth "must have" studied the literature extensively.
You take the opposite position to argue the same conclusion.

Bugliosi's footnote on Judyth Baker is a shining example of total ignorance
of
his subject matter. He even claims that Livingstone wrote her book. His
summary
of her account sounds like it was filtered through McAdams.

Martin

"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:3665d40e-702a-40a3...@o20g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

tims...@gmail.com

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May 6, 2009, 8:44:53 AM5/6/09
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On May 6, 1:41 am, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
> <timst...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Tomnln was shown to be a liar.

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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May 6, 2009, 3:22:06 PM5/6/09
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>>> "[John] McAdams claims Judyth [Vary Baker] "must have" studied the literature extensively. You take the opposite position to argue the same conclusion." <<<


Judyth no doubt "studied" a lot of the details regarding Oswald and
his whereabouts on certain days prior to 11/22/63, etc., yes. She
would have HAD to study those kind of pre-Nov. 22 details in order for
her lies to have any chance whatsoever of being believed (by anyone).

The chronology of Judyth's fairy tale, though, ends in mid-November of
1963 (prior to the assassination itself, of course), so she doesn't
need to memorize any of the details pertaining to LHO or the
assassination AFTER the point in time when she says she last saw him
or talked to him.

Which makes me continue to wonder if Judyth ever studied (in some
depth) the details of THE ASSASSINATION ITSELF, which includes Lee
Oswald's own actions and lies AFTER the murders that LHO so obviously
committed in Dallas.

So, I was referring mainly to the evidence against Oswald AFTER 12:30
PM on 11/22/63 when I said this in an earlier post:

"My guess is that Judyth probably has not seriously studied and
evaluated the hard evidence that exists against Lee Oswald in the TWO
murders that he was charged with in 1963. Nor has Judyth focused very
heavily on another very important aspect of the JFK murder case -- the
ACTIONS and the PROVABLE LIES of her "lover", both before and after

the assassination of President Kennedy." -- DVP; 05/04/09

www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/56be210b37e1b137

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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May 7, 2009, 12:19:38 AM5/7/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/a7cef7da9b10e330

>>> "Maybe it means[,] just like Oswald's mother[,] she [Judyth Vary Baker] thinks that Lee participated in the assassination, but under orders of the CIA." <<<

Nope. Judyth thinks Lee Harvey Oswald was totally innocent of
"participating" in the assassination (with "participating" meaning
"taking a gun and firing it at JFK"). At least that was Judyth's
position as of May 13, 2004.

Take a listen to Judyth's make-believe fantasies (in some detail) in
the following 2-part Black Op Radio program (from 5/13/04). It's a
real howl:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/black171a.ram

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/black171b.ram

----------------------

BTW, Marguerite Oswald thought her son was totally innocent of
shooting anyone too. And the kook named Marguerite tells us so, point-
blank, at the very beginning of this LP record album that she made in
1964:

www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AE750A588C55616C

jonbe...@gmail.com

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Jul 7, 2013, 2:01:56 PM7/7/13
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yes, in a sense oswald had a "penchant for women" and marina had a "penchant for men." but we shouldn't draw any conclusions from this "fact." they were both heterosexual. that doesn't mean they were hypersexual. that doesn't mean that they were more sexually active than most other young people of their generation. i especially take exception to judyth vary baker's portrayal of oswald as a ladies man, a great lover. it seems that oswald wasn't all that attractive to women. from most other accounts, he WASN'T some kind of sophisticated romantic smoothie and he didn't even seem to have all that strong a sex urge. (in fact, i get the idea that marina and lee were essentially timorous lovers, somewhat unsure of and conflicted about their own sexuality.)

aeffects

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Jul 7, 2013, 3:39:32 PM7/7/13
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methinks you have sipped from David Von Pein's trough of KOOL-AID.

Wake up and smell the roses, troll...

709r...@gmail.com

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Jul 8, 2013, 11:37:53 AM7/8/13
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At the very LEAST, Judyth V. Baker has written a compelling and precise historical picture of New Orleans during the time of LHO's last visit there.

The Ochsner Clinic, for instance, was much favored by Clint Murchison Sr.

She tells a very cogent and believeable account of what was actually happening in New Orleans, no matter what her actual relationship was to any of the principals. She knows her stuff, whether it's from massive reading and studying or from personal experience, what does it matter?
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