RARE 11/22/63 AUDIO
David Von Pein
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11/22/63 audio footage from WLW-Radio in Cincinnati, Ohio:
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More assassination-related audio and video:
www.box.net/static/flash/box_explorer.swf?widgetHash=7x7co2jkkg
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David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/14480ade54017ecc
>>> "Fritz/Curry both said that the city worker's would have had to remove a piece of the curbing and create some sort of ramp onto Stemmons, BUT that remedy would NOT have allowed for access by the press buses - as their length and height off of the ground would not have been able to make the ramp's grade." <<<
Then, too, when thinking about this particular issue for a moment or
two, you must ask yourself:
Why would the three press busses necessarily be FORCED to travel the
EXACT same route (foot by foot) as the President's vehicle in front of
them?
In such a situation which had JFK's limo travelling straight down Main
Street, instead of making the two turns in Dealey Plaza, why couldn't
the busses have veered off this course momentarily at Main & Houston
and taken the snake-like route through Dealey that Kennedy ultimately
did take on November 22nd?
Obviously, if need be, the busses could have done just that, instead
of being forced to negotiate the high Main Street curbing (not to
mention the very tight turn for those busses onto the Stemmons ramp if
Main Street had been used instead of Elm).
There was surely no written-in-granite rule regarding "motorcades"
which dictates that EVERY single vehicle had to travel the exact same
streets, regardless of hazards and/or potential obstructions.
Now, I too have argued in the past with CTers about this very topic
re. possible access for the President's car onto Stemmons directly
from Main Street....and, I'll admit, I actually hadn't thought too
much about the "Busses Taking A Different Route" scenario before
writing this post. But, IMO, it just makes sense.
And, interestingly, I've never once heard a conspiracy theorist bring
this up either....which is kind of surprising, since that type of
scenario re. the route for the press busses would benefit a portion of
their CT scenario (at least in a small way).
But all such post-assassination talk about the motorcade route is
Monday-morning quarterbacking, of course. The Secret Service had taken
JFK past tall buildings at slow speeds in an open car many, many times
during motorcades preceding the Dallas parade, and there's no reason
to think that the SS or the DPD felt there was anything remotely
dangerous or unusual about taking the President around those two
curves in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.
For heaven's sake, Kennedy's car even came to a complete stop on at
least two occasions on Main Street before reaching Dealey Plaza that
day in Dallas....and yet I've never heard even one CTer ever balk or
gripe about those two COMPLETE STOPS the President made.
The CTers don't seem to think that STOPPING the President's limo
completely was the slightly bit out of line or a violation of Secret
Service protocol, but many CTers do seem to feel that the hairpin turn
from Houston onto Elm WAS a terrible violation of some SS rule or
regulation. Weird.
Do CTers want to believe that the Secret Service should have been of
the opinion (as of the morning of 11/22/63) that there was MORE danger
to the President by taking him slowly through Dealey Plaza (moving at
about 11 MPH) than there was during those two complete stops that JFK
made in his open limo that same afternoon?
Food for "Motorcade Route" thought.
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/5013496bf7368249
>>> "What you are suggesting is theoretically possible [re: the press busses taking a Houston-to-Elm-to-Stemmons route, while JFK's car took a Main-to-Stemmons route], but it would be very confusing for the public to understand where to stand and look for the President while the motorcade splits in two." <<<
Only if the press busses were AHEAD of the President's car, which
wasn't the case at all (of course).
Or do you think the crowd in Dealey Plaza was waiting breathlessly to
get a good look at those 3 busses as they passed by?
Plus: Dealey Plaza was at the very end of the motorcade. The parade
was essentially over after Dealey.
(Again, to emphasize, this is all meaningless hindsight. I was merely
stating my opinion about how, in a make-believe motorcade situation
that did not occur on 11/22/63, the three press busses could have very
well taken the jog through Dealey, even though the President's car did
not.)
>>> "I have brought up that problem with the buses myself." <<<
You mean the part I brought up about the busses being able to take a
differing route from the President's?
I've never once heard anyone talk about any such thing...be it CTer or
LNer.
>>> "Sure. But you would still have to close off the side streets and control the crowds running across Houston to see the President going down Main." <<<
So?
>>> "Maybe you missed the first hundred times I mentioned the problem of the buses." <<<
Reprise: You mean the part about the busses being able to take a
differing route from the President's?
I've never once heard anyone talk about any such thing...be it CTer or
LNer.
So, yeah, I guess I did manage to miss those 100 previous "bus" posts.
>>> "Well, was there or was there not a rule against such a slow turn [such as the Houston-to-Elm hairpin]?" <<<
What difference does it make? The Secret Service did it anyway. Just
like they allowed JFK's car to stop multiple times on Main Street
amongst the thick crowds of spectators, with tall buildings (with
windows open wide, no doubt) located on both sides of Kennedy's halted
vehicle....even though that particular activity is also probably
strictly prohibited (per the USSS manual).
>>> "Spell Check: traveling - buses." <<<
Nope. You're wrong there. My alternate spelling of both of those words
is perfectly legitimate and acceptable.
Buy a Webster's volume sometime, Tony. Here:
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/405ffb456bf5df25
>>> "Seems some innocent readers assumed you mean the island. A median strip is not an island." <<<
Exactly. I've got to side with Tony Marsh on this particular issue.
The fairly-small concrete "barrier" that prohibits traffic from
getting from Main directly onto the Stemmons ramp doesn't appear
anywhere in this photograph at all (at least the tip of that barrier
certainly isn't visible, at any rate):
Just compare the above picture to Commission Exhibit 2116:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0282b.htm
The concrete barrier is clearly visible in CE2116. Of course, from the
air, it's impossible to see just exactly how high that barrier is. But
it couldn't be any more obvious (via CE2116) that a definite lane
restriction WAS in place on 11/22/63 that prevented traffic from
getting onto Stemmons directly from Main Street.
David Von Pein
>>> "We had some troll a while back who kept typing in "Rush to Judgement." I explained to him that is not how the title of the book is spelled. But he was adamant that the word could be spelled either way so he was correct with that spelling variation." <<<
A totally different situation there, of course. I wouldn't think of
changing the spelling of something WITHIN A TITLE (such as the Mark
Lane example you gave).
But my spelling of "busses" is not associated with a book title. And
that spelling of that word is perfectly "legal"/acceptable per a major
American dictionary (and probably more than just one dictionary).
And "bussed" is right too, btw.
So, Tony is just flat-out dead-wrong in his rigid view of the spelling
of certain words (words that can be spelled multiple ways).
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/405ffb456bf5df25
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a7c15a3d9cead60d
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ADDENDUM TO THE POSTS LINKED ABOVE:
Doug,
Excellent comparison pictures of Elm and Main Streets at the Stemmons
Freeway ramp area. I can see exactly where the "concrete barrier" is
located now via your clearer photo taken in 2007. Here's a direct
comparison:
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr39/dwigg_2008/12-26-07086-1.jpg?t=1220123576
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr39/dwigg_2008/12-26-07083.jpg
Sorry you had so much trouble getting the pictures to link properly,
Doug. I know that's aggravating as hell.
I got each picture to link correctly by clicking "View Image" (to
isolate just the picture itself)...and then copying the links for the
images from there.
Thanks for the excellent 2007 comparison photos. And in the first
photo linked above, it looks like you're in the exact same location
(almost to the inch) that Mel McIntyre was in when he took his famous
"Limo Coming At Me" picture on 11/22/63.
Nice job at replicating the location of the McIntyre picture.
Regards,
David Von Pein