FOR McADAMS
tomnln
The Warren Commission said No such thing about Oswald travelling to Helsinki
John.
Even Richard Helms admitted that there were No Commercial Flights during
THAT time frame.
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lho.htm (Item 3)
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:4b746b58....@news.supernews.com...
> On 9 Feb 2010 21:01:39 -0800, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <5d64n5lpreu51q73b...@4ax.com>, John McAdams
>>says...
>>>
>>>On 2 Feb 2010 06:48:45 -0800, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>LNT'ers have really tried explaining this one in the past, since it's
>>>>such an
>>>>obvious example of their lies about the evidence. Hopefully, someone
>>>>will
>>>>actually be able to explain the WC's actions here: [but judging from the
>>>>previous 38 questions, I won't hold my breath]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>39. "Oswald disembarked at Le Havre on October 8. He left for England
>>>>that same
>>>>day, and arrived on October 9. He told English customs officials in
>>>>Southampton
>>>>that he had $700 and planned to remain in the United Kingdom for 1 week
>>>>before
>>>>proceeding to a school in Switzerland. But on the same day, he flew to
>>>>Helsinki,
>>>>Finland, where he registered at the Torni Hotel; on the following day,
>>>>he moved
>>>>to the Klaus Kurki Hotel." (WCR 690)
>>>>
>>>>Any normal reading of that paragraph will give you the idea that Oswald
>>>>left
>>>>England for Helsinki on October 9th. But once again, it's a lie that is
>>>>in
>>>>provable conflict with their own evidence:
>>>>
>>>>Anyone can turn to CE 946 pg 7:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0088b.htm
>>>>
>>>>and read the stamp which states: "Embarked 10 October 1959"
>>>>
>>>>But this wouldn't be good for the WC - for as they discovered, there
>>>>were no
>>>>commercial flights from London to Helsinki that Oswald could have taken
>>>>in
>>>>order to get to his hotel in Helsinki on the 10th. (See CE 2677) The WC
>>>>knew that the only alternative was a non-commercial flight - such as a
>>>>military flight. This wouldn't do at all - so the simple solution of
>>>>the Warren Commission? Simply lie about the day Oswald left London...
>>>
>>>http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/fancy2.txt
>>
>>
>>Sorry John, you've completely failed to answer the question. The webpage
>>you
>>reference argues that Oswald could have made a commercial flight in time,
>>BUT
>>THE QUESTION BEING RAISED IS WHY THE WARREN COMMISSION LIED ABOUT THE ONLY
>>EVIDENCE THEY HAD FOR OSWALD'S DATE OF DEPARTURE FROM ENGLAND. (Nor does
>>it
>>matter whether Oswald *could* have made the flight, it matters what the WC
>>thought about the matter - but that's purely a secondary matter)
>
> So now you are admitting he could have made the flight?
>
> Good.
>
>
>>
>>Surely, as a "professor", you understand English well enough to comprehend
>>that.
>>
>>The WC had the evidence, the *ONLY* evidence, right in front of them, then
>>lied
>>about it.
>>
>
> The WC knew he could have gotten to Helsinki that day via a flight
> that connected in Copenhagen or one that connected in Stockholm.
>
> See WCR, p. 862, ftn. 480.
>
> http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=74286
>
>
>>You need to provide a reasonable non-conspiratorial explanation for that
>>fact.
>>
>>Care to try again?
>>
>
> See above.
>
>>
>>>>Why does the "truth" require a lie to support it?
>>>
>>>You are the one who needs to answer that question.
>>
>>
>>The answer, to honest people, is obvious.
>>
>>What *YOU* cannot do, John; is explain why the truth needed lies on the
>>part of
>>the WC & HSCA to uphold it.
>>
>
> Your "liar, liar" claim looks really silly now, doesn't it?
>
> .John
>
> --
> The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
David Von Pein
>>> "The Warren Commission said No such thing about Oswald travelling to Helsinki." <<<
You're retarded.
It's right there on Pg. 862 of the WCR, in Source Note #480, as I've
told the super-kook named Ben Holmes on several occasions in the last
three years:
WR 862 [Check Note 480]:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0443b.htm
"While digging into this matter concerning the October 1959
dates a little deeper, I found that the WC fully understood and dealt
with the discrepancy that Ben thinks the Commission just flat-out
"lied" about....because the WC, via its abundant source notes, states
in Source Note #480 on Page 862 of the WCR (which is a Source Note
that pertains to CE2677) that "Oswald could have arrived [IN HELSINKI]
at 5:05 p.m., flying via Copenhagen, or at 5:35 p.m., via Stockholm.
See Official Airline Guide, North American Edition, October 1959, p.
C-721. But he would have been too late to visit the Russian consulate
[IN HELSINKI] that day. See CE 2714"." -- DVP; 12/11/07
aeffects
> >>> "The Warren Commission said No such thing about Oswald travelling to Helsinki." <<<
>
> You're retarded.
>
> It's right there on Pg. 862 of the WCR, in Source Note #480, as I've
> told the super-kook named Ben Holmes on several occasions in the last
> three years:
evidently you forgot what the question was ya fucking lone nut troll-
loon ... keep pulling that pud shithead
tomnln
"aeffects" <aeffe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:489aadac-b908-46c6...@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
John;
There are ten Million words in the 26 Volumes.
Please tell me WHERE I can find the words "generic gesture".
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4b74c9ea$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
> On 2/11/2010 3:39 PM, John McAdams wrote:
>> On 9 Feb 2010 18:20:18 -0800, Ben Holmes<ad...@burningknife.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article<0c54n5depfe5qfauh...@4ax.com>, John McAdams
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope, John... unlike you, I follow the evidence. I'm sure you'll recall
>>> "It was
>>> just a simple matter of a bullet through the head" (as best as my memory
>>> serves), and where the finger was pointing, right?
>>>
>>> You *DO* know that this information came from Dr. Burkley, right?
>>>
>>
>> That's just a generic gesture for "bullet through the head."
>>
>
> Well yes, we've only discussed this a few hundred times before.
>
>> There is no way in the world Burkley could have known what the bullet
>
> Exactly. But it did not originate in Burkley's mind. He was picking up
> what the doctors said.
>
>> trajectory was. The Parkland doctors speculated about that, offering
>> such (in retrospect) absurd suggestions as a bullet hitting Kennedy in
>> the throat and deflecting off a vertebra up and out the head.
>>
>
> Because they were not forensic pathologists. Others speculated that
> maybe the bullet hit the back of the head and exited the throat.
>
> http://the-puzzle-palace.com/Globe11-23-63.jpg
>
>> And these were the doctors actually treating JFK.
>>
>> It's actually absurdly unlikely that Burkley even told Kilduff
>> anything about the trajectory, since he didn't know anything.
>>
>> Just a generic gesture.
>>
>
> Maybe he was watching Zapruder describe it on TV.
Ben Holmes
aeffects says...
>
>On Feb 11, 2:25=A0pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> "The Warren Commission said No such thing about Oswald travelling to =
>Helsinki." <<<
>>
>> You're retarded.
>>
>> It's right there on Pg. 862 of the WCR, in Source Note #480, as I've
>> told the super-kook named Ben Holmes on several occasions in the last
>> three years:
>
>
>evidently you forgot what the question was ya fucking lone nut troll-
>loon ... keep pulling that pud shithead
I see the evidence has the kooks all riled up. I don't know how you stay sane,
David, if you have to read their nonsense.
>> WR 862 [Check Note 480]:http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html=
>/WCReport_0443b.htm
Makes no reference to the lie told by the WC concerning the date of departure
from England.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 "While digging into this matter concerning the October 1959
>> dates a little deeper, I found that the WC fully understood and dealt
>> with the discrepancy that Ben thinks the Commission just flat-out
>> "lied" about....because the WC, via its abundant source notes, states
>> in Source Note #480 on Page 862 of the WCR (which is a Source Note
>> that pertains to CE2677) that "Oswald could have arrived [IN HELSINKI]
>> at 5:05 p.m., flying via Copenhagen, or at 5:35 p.m., via Stockholm.
>> See Official Airline Guide, North American Edition, October 1959, p.
>> C-721. But he would have been too late to visit the Russian consulate
>> [IN HELSINKI] that day. See CE 2714"." -- DVP; 12/11/07
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com
mucher1
> In article <489aadac-b908-46c6-8eb3-d70494c25...@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> aeffects says...
>
> >On Feb 11, 2:25=A0pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >>> "The Warren Commission said No such thing about Oswald travelling to =
> >Helsinki." <<<
>
> >> You're retarded.
>
> >> It's right there on Pg. 862 of the WCR, in Source Note #480, as I've
> >> told the super-kook named Ben Holmes on several occasions in the last
> >> three years:
>
> >evidently you forgot what the question was ya fucking lone nut troll-
> >loon ... keep pulling that pud shithead
The only question that matters here is when and how Oswald got from
London to Helsinki. The "when" part can be answered, so that leaves
the "how". Well, there appears to have been no DIRECT commercial
flights during the pertinent time frame, but there were connecting
flights from CPH and STO that Oswald could have taken. This
information, which can be found in a source note to the WCR, has been
pointed out to Ben Holmes (the "45 questions" guy) ad nauseam. Yet he
keeps arguing that, in the absence of any (direct) commercial flights,
Oswald MUST have taken a non-commercial flight (such as a military
flight). In Ben's conspiracy-giddy mind, the WC also "knew" this and
lied about the departure date to cover up this inconvenient "fact".
His idle speculation is, of course, unrestained by facts and logic.
> I see the evidence has the kooks all riled up. I don't know how you stay sane,
> David, if you have to read their nonsense.
David Healy is every bit as delusional as you are.
> >> WR 862 [Check Note 480]:http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html=
> >/WCReport_0443b.htm
>
> Makes no reference to the lie told by the WC concerning the date of departure
> from England.
There was no reason to lie, so the default assumption must be that it
was an honest mistake. Trivial, too. Someone has been reading too many
conspiracy books...
aeffects
dipshit, you're a liar, plain and simple... now gop pull some pud, get
original shithead... your 200 word responses are dead give-a-ways,
asshole..... ROTFLMFAO!
Ben Holmes
aeffects says...
>
>On Feb 12, 1:51=A0am, mucher1 <much...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12 Feb., 05:47, Ben Holmes <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote:
>>
>ps.com>,
>> > aeffects says...
>>
>> > >On Feb 11, 2:25=3DA0pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> >>> "The Warren Commission said No such thing about Oswald travellin=
>g to =3D
>> > >Helsinki." <<<
>>
>> > >> You're retarded.
>>
>> > >> It's right there on Pg. 862 of the WCR, in Source Note #480, as I've
>t
>> > >> three years:
>>
>> > >evidently you forgot what the question was ya fucking lone nut troll-
>> > >loon ... keep pulling that pud shithead
>>
>> The only question that matters here is when and how Oswald got from
>> London to Helsinki. The "when" part can be answered, so that leaves
>> the "how". Well, there appears to have been no DIRECT commercial
>> flights during the pertinent time frame, but there were connecting
>> flights from CPH and STO that Oswald could have taken. This
>> information, which can be found in a source note to the WCR, has been
>> pointed out to Ben Holmes (the "45 questions" guy) ad nauseam. Yet he
>> keeps arguing that, in the absence of any (direct) commercial flights,
>> Oswald MUST have taken a non-commercial flight (such as a military
>> flight). In Ben's conspiracy-giddy mind, the WC also "knew" this and
>> lied about the departure date to cover up this inconvenient "fact".
>> His idle speculation is, of course, unrestained by facts and logic.
>>
>y sane,
>> > David, if you have to read their nonsense.
>>
>> David Healy is every bit as delusional as you are.
>>
>/html=3D
>> > >/WCReport_0443b.htm
>>
>> > Makes no reference to the lie told by the WC concerning the date of dep=
>arture
>> > from England.
>>
>> There was no reason to lie,
Presupposing no conspiracy or coverup, no.
However, that's problematic - there *was* a conspiracy and a coverup, so yes,
there *WAS* a reason to lie.
The fact that you cannot provide a reasonable and non-conspiratorial explanation
for the WC's lie here is telling.
>> so the default assumption must be that it
>> was an honest mistake. Trivial, too. Someone has been reading too many
>> conspiracy books...
>>
>
>dipshit, you're a liar, plain and simple... now gop pull some pud, get
>original shithead... your 200 word responses are dead give-a-ways,
>asshole..... ROTFLMFAO!
The trolls are upset, aren't they?
>> > >> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 "While digging into this matter concerning the Oct=
>ober 1959
>> > >> dates a little deeper, I found that the WC fully understood and deal=
>t
>> > >> with the discrepancy that Ben thinks the Commission just flat-out
>> > >> "lied" about....because the WC, via its abundant source notes, state=
>s
>> > >> in Source Note #480 on Page 862 of the WCR (which is a Source Note
>> > >> that pertains to CE2677) that "Oswald could have arrived [IN HELSINK=
>I]
>> > >> at 5:05 p.m., flying via Copenhagen, or at 5:35 p.m., via Stockholm.
>> > >> See Official Airline Guide, North American Edition, October 1959, p.
>> > >> C-721. But he would have been too late to visit the Russian consulat=
>e
>> > >> [IN HELSINKI] that day. See CE 2714"." -- DVP; 12/11/07
>
tomnln
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lho.htm
"mucher1" <muc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a20f0695-c6c8-4935...@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
"Ben Holmes" <ad...@burningknife.com> wrote in message
news:hl3nr...@drn.newsguy.com...
mucher1
> In article <1605043c-515b-4c88-9595-183d5c611...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Presupposing nothing. Even if you were intent on covering up a
conspiracy, there would have been no reason to lie in this instance.
The simple, non-conspiratioral, truth is that there were connecting
commercial flights that enabled Oswald to check into his Helsinki
hotel on the same day (10 Oct 59) he embarked from London.
> However, that's problematic - there *was* a conspiracy and a coverup, so yes,
> there *WAS* a reason to lie.
How unusual for a conspiracy kook to put the cart before the horse.
> The fact that you cannot provide a reasonable and non-conspiratorial explanation
> for the WC's lie here is telling.
To paraphrase you: why would a (non-conspiratorial) truth require a
(non-conspiratorial) lie to cover it up?
timstter
> In article <1605043c-515b-4c88-9595-183d5c611...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
LOL! WTF are you blabbering about, Holmes? He HAS provided you an
answer! I suggest you READ it instead of trying to pretend that you
are carrying on a civilised and lofty discourse with the clearly brain-
dead Healy.
Here's the reply you ignored while you were talking to <snicker>
*David*:
QUOTE ON:
in Source Note #480 on Page 862 of the WCR (which is a Source Note
that pertains to CE2677) that "Oswald could have arrived [IN HELSINKI]
at 5:05 p.m., flying via Copenhagen, or at 5:35 p.m., via Stockholm.
See Official Airline Guide, North American Edition, October 1959, p.
C-721. But he would have been too late to visit the Russian consulate
[IN HELSINKI] that day. See CE 2714"." -- DVP; 12/11/07
QUOTE OFF
Stop making things up, Yellow Pants!
Disgusted Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
aeffects
my goodness the troll from uppah nu yawk state (the troll timstter has
one of those Aussie @29.95 hide my ISP addresses) is upset.... LMFAO
I suggest you READ it instead of trying to pretend that you
> are carrying on a civilised and lofty discourse with the clearly brain-
> dead Healy.
we suggest you get your hands out of troll pockets, moving them both
to the the keyboard, shithead..... you're USENET board habit are
disgusting...
<and snip the lone nut lunacy>
timstter
> Oswald "HAD" to have taken a Military Flight !
>
> SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lho.htm
>
No, the evidence quite clearly shows that it would have been possible
for him to have taken a commercial flight.
Get those mildewed old 26 volumes off of the shelf and start actually
READING them, tomnln.
Helpful Regards,
timstter
Hmm, say looks like YOU'RE the one who is upset, Dave.
Let's examine your two earlier responses on this thread and the
comment that each elicited from the clearly delusional Ben Holmes,
pretending to carry on a rational conversation with you as if nothing
is amiss. As you appear to now be the only person left on this board
that takes his yellow-panted nonsense seriously anymore, I guess he
HAS to pretend that you're sane and rational and a valued JFK-CT
research compatriot. OK, here we go:
Response # 1 by YOU:
evidently you forgot what the question was ya fucking lone nut troll-
loon ... keep pulling that pud shithead
Holmes's comment:
I see the evidence has the kooks all riled up. I don't know how you
stay sane,
David, if you have to read their nonsense.
Response # 2 by YOU:
dipshit, you're a liar, plain and simple... now gop pull some pud, get
original shithead... your 200 word responses are dead give-a-ways,
asshole..... ROTFLMFAO!
Holmes's comment:
The trolls are upset, aren't they?
----------------------------------------------------
Looks like ol' Dave *aeffects* Healy is the one who is upset. As for
Holmes, he seems to have hit rock bottom, conversing away like that as
if nothing was awry with your nonsensical ravings.
Sure says a lot that the pair of you believe in Z film alteration...
Concerned Regards,
tomnln
from Stockholm or Copenhagen.
THEN, you have to show us how he got from London to Sweden ! ! !
"timstter" <tims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:494182d1-7399-43aa...@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
timstter
> What you need to do now tim is show Oswald's name on the passenger list
> from Stockholm or Copenhagen.
>
> THEN, you have to show us how he got from London to Sweden ! ! !
>
Hi tomnln,
Say, didn't you claim that:
QUOTE ON:
Oswald "HAD" to have taken a Military Flight !
QUOTE OFF
What YOU have to do now, tomnln, is produce some US military manifest
proving that Oswald was on a military flight.
Let's see it, tomnln. Where's that military aircraft manifest with
Oswald's name on it, you think it's such a slam dunk that he took a
military flight.
tomnln
rob/tim/Azcue/justme HUGO wrote;
Hi tomnln,
Say, didn't you claim that:
QUOTE ON:
Oswald "HAD" to have taken a Military Flight !
QUOTE OFF
What YOU have to do now, tomnln, is produce some US military manifest
proving that Oswald was on a military flight.
Let's see it, tomnln. Where's that military aircraft manifest with
Oswald's name on it, you think it's such a slam dunk that he took a
military flight.
Regards,
Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*
I write;
You said he went via Stockholm/Copenhagen ! ! !
That's Pure Bullshit.
There's NO Swedish stamp on his passport ! ! !
That leaves a Military Flight UNLESS you've got a "magic plane" like your
"magic bullet(S)"
HOHOHOHOH
tomnln
BOTTOM POST;
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:hrsen59nq2d2o0h7g...@4ax.com...
> On 13 Feb 2010 22:26:03 -0500, yeuhd <needle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 13, 4:30 pm, "tomnln" <tom...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> "yeuhd" <needleswax...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>> > Show us a Customs stamp from Sweden in Oswald's passport ! ! !
>>>
>>> Why would a customs stamp be issued if Oswald didn't *go* through
>>> customs? They were both connecting flights; you don't go through
>>> customs on a connecting flight.
>>>
>>> Show us HOW Oswald got to Sweden ! ! !
>>>
>>> His name has to be on a passenger list.
>>
>>How long were airplane passenger lists kept in Britain back then? The
>>flight was in 1957, almost seven years before the WC investigated
>>Oswald's travel. Do you have any evidence that British passenger lists
>>were kept that long?
>
> I'm afraid we have yet another case of a buff must making something up
> and considering it evidence.
>
> I must point out that this thread started with Ben claimed the WC
> *lied* about when Oswald got to Helsinki, since they *knew* that he
> could not have gone by commercial flight.
>
> In fact, the WC footnote that said that Oswald could have gotten there
> via Stockholm or Copenhagen blew that argument out of the water.
>
> Tom has taken two steps back, arguing about an issue that was settled
> decades ago.
>
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXACTLY WHY JOHN NEVER WANTS TO DISCUSS EVIDENCE/TESTIMONY !
SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/lho.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------