Re: JFK Assassination Forum Archives -- Misc. Topics Of Interest (Part 185)

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David Von Pein

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May 26, 2012, 10:13:28 AM5/26/12

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ARCHIVED JFK ASSASSINATION FORUM POSTS OF INTEREST (PART 185):

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BILLY LOVELADY:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=765#entry253019
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=780#entry253033
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=855#entry253118
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=840#entry253104
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=885#entry253165
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=900#entry253181
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=960#entry253263
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=960#entry253266
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=975#entry253274
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=990#entry253293
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=990#entry253308
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=1035#entry253378
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=1050#entry253405
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=1065#entry253410

QUESTIONS NEVER ANSWERED BY CONSPIRACISTS:
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2012/05/questions-conspiracists-never-answer.html

MARK FUHRMAN:
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2012/05/mark-fuhrman.html

JFK TALKS ABOUT CUBA:
http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2012/05/jfk-talks-about-cuba-in-february-1963.html

THE INSANITY OF CONSPIRACY THEORISTS:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,6368.msg160263.html#msg160263

MORE STUFF:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=780#entry253044
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19083&st=915#entry253191

======================================================

aeffects

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May 26, 2012, 7:38:12 PM5/26/12

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On May 26, 7:13 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

<snip the bullshit>

no advertising moron! you know the rules.

David Von Pein

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May 28, 2012, 6:44:59 AM5/28/12

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CLINT HILL INTERVIEW (5/3/12):

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/12/kennedy-detail.html#Clint-Hill-Interview-May-3-2012

David Von Pein

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Jun 3, 2012, 6:38:44 AM6/3/12

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/0f4e740432511aa6/79f3d4ef5ca14c73?#79f3d4ef5ca14c73

TONY MARSH SAID:

>>> "Can you show me a picture of Lovelady in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting?" <<<

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yes, of course. It's CE369, which includes Lovelady's own arrow
pointing to a person that Lovelady said was him (which is an arrow on
CE369 that Lovelady himself drew on the Altgens photo):

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0495a.htm

>>> "Can you quote where Lovelady said it was him in the doorway?" <<<

Yes. Of course. It's on pages 338 and 339 of Warren Commission Volume
6. Clear as day:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0174b.htm

In continuing their pathetic attempts to place Lee Harvey Oswald in
the doorway of the Book Depository, many conspiracy theorists (still
to this day) totally ignore Commission Exhibit No. 369 and totally
ignore Billy Lovelady's own words that appear in black-and-white at 6
H 338-339 linked above.

And those CTers also ignore other witnesses, like Buell Wesley
Frazier, who have said that Lovelady was in the doorway and Oswald was
not. Frazier couldn't have been any clearer on the "Lovelady vs.
Oswald" matter than he was in the 1986 video presented below (at the
8:20 mark). When asked by lawyer Vincent Bugliosi who the man in the
doorway was, Wesley Frazier said, without a moment's hesitation:
"That's Billy Lovelady."

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/07/buell-wesley-frazier.html

So my question to those conspiracists who continue to doubt the true
identity of "Doorway Man" is: Why do you feel the need to ignore such
hard evidence that proves beyond all reasonable doubt that the man
standing in the doorway in the Altgens picture is Billy Nolan
Lovelady?

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/doorway-man.html

aeffects

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Jun 3, 2012, 12:41:46 PM6/3/12

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On Jun 3, 3:38 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

<no advertising troll>

David Von Pein

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Jun 3, 2012, 2:06:54 PM6/3/12

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God, what a retard.
Day after day, Healy's retardation deepens.
Beyond belief.

aeffects

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Jun 3, 2012, 2:28:46 PM6/3/12

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when it comes to the JFK assassination you remind me of Bugliosi, all
noise-no beef.... how is your anti Mark Lane alias working out, it's a
long way to 11/22/2013? You regurgitated lone nut imbecile, you!

tom...@cox.net

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Jun 3, 2012, 10:56:50 PM6/3/12

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David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread

Frazier testified thst Lovelady ws "SITTING on the steps of the oorway
dummy ! ! !

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David Von Pein

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Jun 4, 2012, 8:49:31 AM6/4/12

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TOM ROSSLEY SAID:

>>> "[Buell Wesley] Frazier testified that Lovelady was "SITTING on the steps of the doorway"." <<<

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Rossley actually thinks that Billy Lovelady would have been SITTING on
the steps at exactly 12:30 PM when JFK drove by the TSBD Building.

Which would mean that he would have likely had his view blocked (or
substantially so) by the other people who were STANDING in front of
him.

Maybe Lovelady (and others) WERE "sitting" on the steps at some point
PRIOR to 12:30. But at 12:30, Lovelady was standing on the steps. And
the Altgens photo proves it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HoxE5MNqi-M/TZDu0WzecbI/AAAAAAAATbM/pFQ9eNkaJgs/s1600/Altgens%2BPhoto%2B%2528Extra%2BLarge%2BVersion%2529.jpg

BTW, I just now looked through Wesley Frazier's Warren Commission
testimony and his Clay Shaw Trial testimony, and there is no reference
at all to Frazier saying that Lovelady was "sitting" on the steps. In
fact, there's testimony to the contrary, with Frazier specifically
using the word "standing" in his Shaw Trial testimony when referring
to Lovelady:

"Right down in front of me at the bottom of the steps my foreman
Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady were standing there." -- Buell Wesley
Frazier; 2/13/69

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazierb3.htm

FOOTNOTE------

In case some people might not realize this fact, I'll point it out:

Warren Commission Exhibit No. 369 (which is a picture of James
Altgens' photograph showing Doorway Man) was actually marked with TWO
different arrows pointing toward Lovelady (aka Doorway Man).

CE369 was first marked with an arrow by Buell Wesley Frazier on March
11, 1964, at 2 H 242:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/html/WC_Vol2_0125b.htm

And that same exhibit was then marked with another arrow by Billy
Lovelady himself on April 7, 1964 (at 6 H 338):

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0174b.htm

When looking at the picture of CE369 (linked below), I cannot see the
second arrow that was drawn in. I see only one dark arrow to the left
(west) of Lovelady. But the testimony is very clear -- TWO arrows were
drawn on CE369, the first one by Wesley Frazier when the exhibit was
first introduced into evidence by the Warren Commission on March 11th;
and a second arrow marked on the same picture by Billy Lovelady on
April 7th.

Now, from the testimony, it's a bit unclear as to which witness
(Frazier or Lovelady) drew in the dark arrow that is easily visible in
CE369. But that visible arrow might very well have been drawn by
Frazier and not Lovelady. But I'm not entirely sure of that.

But Joseph Ball's instructions to Lovelady might give a clue. Ball
said this to Lovelady:

"Take a pen or pencil and mark an arrow where you are. .... Draw
an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark
and one in the white pointing toward you."

So, via the above testimony, it's possible that Lovelady's arrow is
"in the dark" and cannot be easily seen.

CE369:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0495a.htm

I suppose this confusion about who drew the dark arrow pointing to
Doorway Man in CE369 will spark some additional controversy concerning
the true identity of the man in the TSBD doorway, with some conspiracy
theorists possibly wanting to now claim that Billy Lovelady didn't
really mark CE369 at all with an arrow in 1964.

But it's quite clear to me from the Warren Commission records that
BOTH Wesley Frazier AND Billy Lovelady drew separate arrows pointing
to the SAME PERSON (Doorway Man) in Commission Exhibit No. 369.

And, of course, as I've pointed out in previous posts, there's also
Wes Frazier's testimony at the 1986 mock trial in London, where
Frazier identified Doorway Man as Lovelady.

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/doorway-man.html

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aeffects

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Jun 4, 2012, 4:29:56 PM6/4/12

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On Jun 4, 5:49 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> TOM ROSSLEY SAID:
>
> >>> "[Buell Wesley] Frazier testified that Lovelady was "SITTING on the steps of the doorway"." <<<
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Rossley actually thinks that Billy Lovelady would have been SITTING on
> the steps at exactly 12:30 PM when JFK drove by the TSBD Building.

<snip>

one step at a time shithead.... after all, you've got a good 30 more
years defending the undefendable, the WCR.