Curry And LBJ
curtjester1
safe Presidential motorcade in Dallas but also the Law Enforement end
was assigned too, as an aide to insure the safety of the trip and it's
implication as well. In the case of Dallas there were about 7 who
were heads of divisions as well as fifteen others who were on a
special payroll in the fact that they received bonuses from the upper
echelon's of Dallas to whom they did their bidding for. Curry's job
was to assign and even to be a lead car in the motorcade which would
have been to be on-the-look for any potential dangers. Agent Sorrells
even commented that they couldn't see much in a sedan (instead of a
convertible). Of Dallas' 1175 men, on November 22, 400 of them were
assigned to Love Field, 200 to the Trade Mart, and the rest were
scattered along the parade route between the airport and Main Street.
One may ask, why Main Street?, and the following may make sense.
Secret Service advance man Lawson met with Police Chief Curry in
Dallas on November 13. Together they visited the Trade Mart, where
Curry suggested the November 22 banquet be held. Lawson forwarded a
favorable report to Washington, and the next day, November 14,
O'Donnell confirmed his choice. That same day, Curry held a meeting
with his deputies, Bachelor and Fischer, Lawson, and Sorrels to study
the problems raised by the President's visit. The meeting continued
into the next day, November 15, with the participation of members of
the local host committee. Sorrels and Lawson were preoccupied with
security problems in and around the Trade Mart, and Curry promised
massive reinforcements. That weekend, on Monday morning at the
latest, J. Edgar Hoover received a TWK (inter-office telegram) from
special agent James W. Bookout of the FBI's Dallas office. The Warren
Commission was never informed of the existence of this message. On
Monday, November 18, Lawson and Sorrels drove the motorcade route from
Love Field to the Trade Mart for the first time. Curry stressed the
fact that it could be covered in 45 minutes, and even suggested that a
short section along the Central Expressway be eliminated because of
the security risks if offered.
Let me interject here that as far as safety and potential assassins
during a motorcade nothing can be 100% ironclad for safety, there are
things that conspirators would hardly take a risk at. That would be
occupied office space or apartment buildings because these buildings
would be at a mercy of witness, most likely. On the other hand , all
unoccupied buildings , administrative buildings outside of working
hours, warehouses, building sites, all bridges, walls, and vacant lots
that would be ideal for ambush would not only be watched, but occupied
under in this case a Presidental Security Division as well as the
suboordinates in Dealey which would be Law Enforement. Continuing,
after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
Sorrels followed the parade point past that point, where they would
have been obliged to make a 90 degree right turn to the left followed
70 yards later by a 120 degree turn to the left into Elm Street.
After the assassination and the confusion of how they even arrived at
Parkland Hospital with the pictures taken on the west side of the
Triple Underpass showing that the limo with the injured passing Curry
and the Pilot Car, Curry ended up at Parkland. After the President
was dead and even though it was not his job, he did not choose to lead
his police team investigating the major crime of the century, where he
did things like oversee the search of the limousine for evidence and
just tagging along with Johnson. With unknown assassin(s) on the
loose in downtown Dallas, Curry should have been the busiest man in
Dallas. Yet, the Chief volunteered to escort Johnson to the plane and
then spent the next 90 minutes sitting with Johnson. When Johnson was
sworn in aboard Air Force One, others on the plane complained
bitterely that Chief Curry was trying to push his way into every
photograph.
There seems to be no rational explanation for Johnson's conduct during
the same time period. As President Kennedy lay dying at Parkland
Memorial Hospital, Johnson stood nearby. The Presidential had just
been shot by assassins and, so far as anyone knew, the killing may
have been a prelude to a nuclear military attack, a bloody coup, a
wipe-out of all government leaders, or even worse. However, despite
secuity staff orders that Johnson leave the area for his own and the
country's safety, he flatly refused. In the midst of the crisis, and
with himself as a next possible victim, he refused to leave until he
made sure that Kennedy was dead. When the news of Kennedy's death was
first broken to him, he still refused to leave until another staff
member was sent back to reconfirm the death. When he was reassured
that the President was actually dead, Johnson finally left for the
airport.
But when Johnson arrived at the airport, he did not leave as everyone
advised. Bear in mind that in 1963, the nations of this earth were
not living in peace and harmony, and it was a frightened America which
had just lost its leader. Nevertheless, Johnson again overruled the
advice of the security staff, the Secret Service, the White House
staff, and even President Kennedy's brother, Bobby, that he quickly
get airbore for the good of the nation. Rather, he first demanded
that his luggage be taken off his plane and transferred to Kennedy's
plane (both planes had the same sophisticated communications equipment
and the term "Air Force One" applies to any plane on which a President
flies). What Johnson wanted was to fly back to Washington on
Kennedy's plane. When the transfer of baggage was finally
accomplished, Johnson still refused to leave, claimng he wanted to
take Kennedy's body back with him on the plane. After this delaying
order was implemented, Johnson delayed his departure even more by
stating that he wanted to take his Oath of Office on Texas soil. The
required locating a Federal Judge and bringing her back to the plane.
During all of this delay in time of crisis, so far as everyone
observed, Johnson passed the time watching TV, drinking bottled water,
eating soup, and twice changing his shirt to get ready for the
swearing in ceremony. It was hours before Johnson finally left the
city, and it was only when Oswald was captured that he left.
Some other admissions and strange acts, are the telling of his
girlfriend for over 20 years that Kennedy was going to be killed in
Dallas prior to the assassination. During the motorcade at the exact
time of the assassination, Democratic Senator Ralph Yarborough, LBJ's
seatmate, stated LBJ has his ear up against a small walkie-talkie held
over the back seat listening to the device which was "turned down real
low." Johnson also refused to be questioned by anyone under oath as
to his activities and even refused to supply a sworn affadavit.
Before Kennedy was buried Johnson ordered the limousine (that had been
shipped from Dallas to Washington) to be shipped to Detroit for
complete refurbishing. The body and windows of the limousine were
replaced and the interior was gutted thereby destroying all evidence
of bullet marks, blood patterns, bullet directions, and occupant exact
positions. As JFK lay dying at Parkland and his close friend was
seriously injured, LBJ, and his wife were waiting impatiently down the
hall. And, in the midst, of a perceived world crisis, Johnson's wife
took out a notebook and began taking longhand notes of Johnson's
actions. At 1:13 p.m. when Johnson was told that the President was
dead he immediately looked at his watch and then turned to his wife
and told her to "make a note of that time." On the Saturday morning
after, LBJ began the day by firing President Kennedy's personal
secretary. He demanded that she have her desk cleared out by 9:00
a.m. He then ordered the staff to begin removing JFK's personal
effects from the White House (including his rocker). Once this was
initiated Johnson hung a gold framed portrait of himself in the White
House. Even, less tactfully, he insisted the widow (in the midst of
preparing for a funeral) move out of the White House by Monday (the
day of her husband's funeral) so that he could quickly move in. These
types of callous activities demonstrate the cold, ruthlessness of a
man who was neither stricken with fear over a possible conspiracy, nor
in any way mourning the loss of a leader. Also, within a month he
used an opportunity to serve his guests with his new presidential
china. Strangely, Johnson bought this china in the early fall of 1963
whle a VP travelling on a political junket in Scandanavia. Of course,
he never gave JFK a gift in his life nor did he give one to his widow
after his death.
>From the time of Oswald's arrest until his death the only major
problem that arose was keeping Oswald away from the public. However,
this problem was easily solved by someone's decision in the Dallas
police department to: deny legal counsel to Oswald (who by some stroke
of the imagination was beckoning for a Conspiracy Lawyer); refuse to
take contemporaneous notes of Oswald's interrogations; not allow
Oswald to communicate to the public; and not transfer Oswald to the
Dallas Sheriff within 12 hours of indictment in violation of Texas
Law. When Oswald's Sunday transfer eventually came, Ruby happened to
get a clear shot off of what should have been something done in
secrecy and with a human shield. Now, Ruby was in jail, and why
should he have four deputies guarding his being until the day he
died? Of course there are many questions, but one might be why along
the parade route were there no Secret Service at all in Dealey Plaza,
and the existing people that were left to protect admonished by a
Police Chief to not look back at any building or anything, but to look
ahead at the motorcade? Interestingly, after Ruby's death, Jesse
Curry retired, citing "medical reasons", but apparently he had NO
financial worries. Also, Madeleine Brown, naming The Committee that
was at the Murchison Party with LBJ to JEH and most all of Dallas'
'finest' also include one Mr. Jesse Curry on the 'Party's Platform'.
(she has an 81 minute interview tape on PrisonPlanet.com not long
before her death).
CJ
Gil Jesus
was dead.
Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( which
he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
President )
Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for time,
as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
military transport and flown off to Washington.
Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
(where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
Oswald's rifle.
Anthony Marsh
> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew Kennedy
> was dead.
Kennedy was effectively dead on arrival.
Johnson did not leave immediately after the President was declared dead
at 1:07. And he would not leave without Jackie and Jackie would not
leave without her husband's body.
>
> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( which
> he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
> President )
>
Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
in first.
> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>
That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
> Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for time,
> as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
> military transport and flown off to Washington.
>
Huh? Kennedy's body was in Air Force One.
> Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
> body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>
Silly speculation. Why should any bullets have stayed in the body?
> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>
> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
> Oswald's rifle.
>
You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
>
justm...@gmail.com
Dream on little boy, dream on!
Anthony Marsh
> The Secret Service was lax in it's protocol to for sure to insure a
> safe Presidential motorcade in Dallas but also the Law Enforement end
> was assigned too, as an aide to insure the safety of the trip and it's
> implication as well. In the case of Dallas there were about 7 who
> were heads of divisions as well as fifteen others who were on a
> special payroll in the fact that they received bonuses from the upper
> echelon's of Dallas to whom they did their bidding for. Curry's job
> was to assign and even to be a lead car in the motorcade which would
> have been to be on-the-look for any potential dangers. Agent Sorrells
Curry was the Chief of Police and had gone on TV warning Dallas citizens
to behave. Of course he is going to be the lead car. That does not make
him a conspirator.
You are talking about how things SHOULD have been done in an ideal
world. That ignores the reality of how things actually worked then.
> after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
Please prove this. I have never heard this allegation before. On which
day did that happen?
> Sorrels followed the parade point past that point, where they would
> have been obliged to make a 90 degree right turn to the left followed
> 70 yards later by a 120 degree turn to the left into Elm Street.
>
> After the assassination and the confusion of how they even arrived at
> Parkland Hospital with the pictures taken on the west side of the
> Triple Underpass showing that the limo with the injured passing Curry
> and the Pilot Car, Curry ended up at Parkland. After the President
> was dead and even though it was not his job, he did not choose to lead
> his police team investigating the major crime of the century, where he
> did things like oversee the search of the limousine for evidence and
> just tagging along with Johnson. With unknown assassin(s) on the
Maybe he thought his responsibility was to assist the new President.
Didn't Curry personally drive LBJ to the airport?
> loose in downtown Dallas, Curry should have been the busiest man in
> Dallas. Yet, the Chief volunteered to escort Johnson to the plane and
> then spent the next 90 minutes sitting with Johnson. When Johnson was
> sworn in aboard Air Force One, others on the plane complained
> bitterely that Chief Curry was trying to push his way into every
> photograph.
>
> There seems to be no rational explanation for Johnson's conduct during
> the same time period. As President Kennedy lay dying at Parkland
> Memorial Hospital, Johnson stood nearby. The Presidential had just
> been shot by assassins and, so far as anyone knew, the killing may
> have been a prelude to a nuclear military attack, a bloody coup, a
Johnson was well aware and worried about the possibility that it was the
beginning of an all out attack. That is why he wanted to leave so quickly.
> wipe-out of all government leaders, or even worse. However, despite
> secuity staff orders that Johnson leave the area for his own and the
> country's safety, he flatly refused. In the midst of the crisis, and
> with himself as a next possible victim, he refused to leave until he
> made sure that Kennedy was dead. When the news of Kennedy's death was
> first broken to him, he still refused to leave until another staff
> member was sent back to reconfirm the death. When he was reassured
> that the President was actually dead, Johnson finally left for the
> airport.
>
No, that is not what happened. He knew that Kennedy was dead, but
refused to leave without Jackie and Jackie refused to leave her
husband's body.
> But when Johnson arrived at the airport, he did not leave as everyone
> advised. Bear in mind that in 1963, the nations of this earth were
> not living in peace and harmony, and it was a frightened America which
> had just lost its leader. Nevertheless, Johnson again overruled the
> advice of the security staff, the Secret Service, the White House
> staff, and even President Kennedy's brother, Bobby, that he quickly
> get airbore for the good of the nation. Rather, he first demanded
> that his luggage be taken off his plane and transferred to Kennedy's
> plane (both planes had the same sophisticated communications equipment
> and the term "Air Force One" applies to any plane on which a President
> flies). What Johnson wanted was to fly back to Washington on
> Kennedy's plane. When the transfer of baggage was finally
> accomplished, Johnson still refused to leave, claimng he wanted to
> take Kennedy's body back with him on the plane. After this delaying
> order was implemented, Johnson delayed his departure even more by
> stating that he wanted to take his Oath of Office on Texas soil. The
> required locating a Federal Judge and bringing her back to the plane.
> During all of this delay in time of crisis, so far as everyone
> observed, Johnson passed the time watching TV, drinking bottled water,
> eating soup, and twice changing his shirt to get ready for the
> swearing in ceremony. It was hours before Johnson finally left the
> city, and it was only when Oswald was captured that he left.
>
Was it hours that Johnson was on the plane waiting to take off?
YoHarvey
>
> - Show quoted text -
eVERYTHING Jesus the lunatic says is speculation. His entire life is
speculation. In reality, is there any PROOF Jesus is human? I'm just
speculating.
cdddraftsman
> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew
> Kennedy was dead.
>
> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( > which he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he
> automatically became President )
>
> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>
> Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for
> time, as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken
> aboard a military transport and flown off to Washington.
>
> Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets
> from the body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>
> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy
> ambulance with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile"
> who turned it over to the FBI at Bethesda and received
> a "receipt" for it.
> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not
> match Oswald's rifle.
Of course Gil , like all good CTer's , doesn't bother with telling us
how the body snatchers managed to take a blood soaked body out of a
casket in front of dozens of people off a elevated tarmac that Air
Force One Jet Plane was on and keep all these witnesses silent after
doing so . Probably only a minor detail in his mind .
Also :
Lifton's Claim Of " Surgery To The Head Area " Prior To Autopsy In
Which He Based His Book ' Best Evidence ' and Concocted A Musical
Casket Routine of Titanical Funnyness Is Repudiated Below :
(62) Sibert and O'Neill, p. 3. In their report, Sibert and O'Neill
also stated that surgery had been performed on the head area prior to
the arrival of the body at Bethesda Naval Hospital. The committee
concludes that this report was in error. In an affidavit to the
committee, Sibert acknowledged that the statement that head surgery
was performed was determined "not to be correct following detailed
inspection." See affidavit of James Sibert, Oct. 24, 1978, House
Select Committee on Assassinations
(JFK Document No. 012806).
Seems like Gil is apt to get into :
Double Trouble : Two , two , two caskets in one ! :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/double.htm
" One should try to make one's theories fit the data, and one should
try to fit all the data, without selectively ignoring inconvenient
things. But it's also the case that one should not concoct a more
elaborate theory to fit data that are erroneous. What happens when one
produces a theory to explain witnesses who happen to be mistaken,
documents that contain errors, and things you just think you see in
photographs? You end up with two of everything."
Gil must of been rather loosly educated for he ignores the basic :
Rules of Logic and Probability
And
When Thinking About Conspiracy :
The Kennedy assassination is nothing if not a huge intellectual
puzzle. Anybody who wants to solve that puzzle would be well-advised
to use the intellectual tools that have been tried and proven.
Unfortunately, conspiracy books often ignore basic rules of logic and
build an edifice of speculation. Yet they can be quite convincing.
Just how do they convince their readers? And how would sound
intellectual inquiry proceed ? :
Wildly Improbable Coincidences ? :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/logic1.htm
Too Many Mistaken Witnesses ? :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/logic2.htm
All Those Sinister Connections ? :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/logic3.htm
How Big a Conspiracy ? :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/logic4.htm
Opinions Are Not Evidence
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/opinions.htm
What Scenario Does the Evidence Imply ? :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/scenario.htm
The Truth is in the Documents ? :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hoch.htm
Jim Fetzer: Getting it All Wrong :
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/logic.htm#fetzer
tomnln
Here's what the HSCA said>>>
There is photographic and X-ray evidence supporting the observations of
the Dallas doctors--McClelland and Jenkins--that there was left temporal
entrance wound.
I feel it is the committee's obligation to have the medical panel
reexamine the X-rays and photographs, in the area I have pinpointed, and, if
they disagree with my conclusion, explain what this circle represents, if
not a bullet hole, and also explain the corresponding image
X-rays.
VIII. RECOVERED BULLET DURING JFK AUTOPSY
Although there is a great deal of evidence that a bullet was recovered
from President Kennedy's body at the time of the autopsy, none of the
evidence of this bullet was ever mentioned in the public hearings.
To recap, Warren Commission document No. 371 reveals "one receipt from
the FBI for a missile removed during the examination of the body." An
examination of the receipt shows that a bullet was removed from the body of
President Kennedy during the autopsy in the evening of November 22, 1963.
This bullet was handed over to and signed for by FBI agents Francis X.
O'Neill and James W. Sibert.
The January 4, 1964, issue of the Journal of the American Medical
Association (vol. 187 No. 1) stated on page 15 that the bullet was recovered
during the autopsy.
The Washington Post of December 18, 1963, after checking the report
with the FBI before publication, stated that a bullet was recovered from
deep within the President's shoulder. This was again confirmed in the Post
on May 29, 1966.
The fact of the recovery of this bullet fully destroys the myth of the
"single bullet," and that evidence of an additional gunshot during the
assassination was suppressed
Commander Humes removed this bullet but there is no indication from
which direction the bullet came. If it was from the front, there had to be
at least two assassins. If the bullet came from behind and as the best
evidence will show, did not exit the President's body, considering the
number and timing of the shots in any combination, there had to be more than
one assassin.
The issue has been raised that the bullet or missile may have been a
fragment of a bullet or missile. This seems highly unlikely since Sibert and
O'Neill were professional enough to know the difference between an entire
bullet and a small fragment. In addition to this, the FBI itself did confirm
the Washington Post that it was "a bullet" and not just a fragment.
It should be noted that this entire area of discussion occurred many
months before the single bullet theory was invented to try to prove the
"lone assassin theory."
ATTACHMENT 1: SOFT EDGE MATTE INSERTION
Given the present nature of these photographs, the only method that I
am aware of that could have been used to alter them is called soft edge
matte insertion.
Page 303
303
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I told you you didn't know shit about evidence/testimony.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<justm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192229102.8...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
NOW, will you address your own evidence/testimony?>>>
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/mexcity.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Walker.htm
http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
WHO is Yo(Momma)Harvey?>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/baileynme.htm
"YoHarvey" <bail...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192237316....@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Ben Holmes
>
>Gil Jesus wrote:
>> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew Kennedy
>> was dead.
>
>Kennedy was effectively dead on arrival.
>Johnson did not leave immediately after the President was declared dead
>at 1:07. And he would not leave without Jackie and Jackie would not
>leave without her husband's body.
>
>>
>> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( which
>> he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
>> President )
>>
>
>Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
>in first.
That's certainly one 'explanation' for the events.
>> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>>
>
>That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
Actually, theres a *tremendous* amount of "proof" for Johnson's attitude toward
others.
Tell us, Tony ... can you name Johnson's favorite descriptive phrase of those he
disliked?
For if you can - it illustrates my point.
And if you can't - you really have nothing more to say on the topic, do you?
>> Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for time,
>> as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
>> military transport and flown off to Washington.
>>
>
>Huh? Kennedy's body was in Air Force One.
That's certainly the official view. Probably *most* CT'ers would also agree,
but not all - and Tony surely knows this.
>> Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
>> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
>> body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>>
>
>Silly speculation. Why should any bullets have stayed in the body?
The medical evidence from Parkland, of course.
Surely Tony, you're not unaware of this???
>> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
>> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
>
>Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
Yep... "missile" was indeed mispelled on the receipt. As to what it *meant*,
you have certainly toed the official line yet again.
>> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
>> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>>
>> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
>> Oswald's rifle.
>>
>
>You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
Sad to say, you *CAN* eliminate them as being fired from Oswald's rifle. And
Tony surely knows this. Seems Tony is being just a tad more dishonest than
normal...
Ben Holmes
Or, for example, the way things SHOULD have been done when two previous
assassination attempts with rifles out of tall buildings during a motorcade with
sharp turns had been attempted within just weeks.
Tony won't tell you that...
Or else, he knew that he had to gain control before everyone realized and
accepted that he'd been the head of a coup d'etat.
tomnln
X-rays.
Page 303
303
"cdddraftsman" <cdddra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192240688.9...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
John McAdams
>Here's what the HSCA said>>>
>
No, it's not.
It's what Groden told the HSCA.
They did not buy it.
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
chuck schuyler
wrote:
>
> Tell us, Tony ... can you name Johnson's favorite descriptive phrase of those he
> disliked?
Ben Holmes????
Gil Jesus
when after the assassination, with a deranged Presidential assassin on
the loose in Dallas, Curry first drove Johnson from Parkland Hospital
to Love Field, then remained there for a photo opportunity and to
witness the swearing-in of his hero, Johnson.
While his men were gathering evidence, the Police Chief was busy
somewhere else. While Oswald was being transferred, the Police Chief
was doing something else.
IMO, either Curry was a scumbag who was derelict in his duty as the
Chief law enforcement officer for the city of Dallas and part of the
conspiracy, or he was a troubled man who knew what was going on and
tried his best to distance himself from it.
In either event, he either failed or refused to lead his department at
critical times that weekend.
chuck schuyler
Why didn't the widow Jackie speak up and advise authorities that John
and/or Nellie (whatever your fu*ked up theory is) shot JFK in the head?
Martin Shackelford
by Larry Sneed.
Martin
"curtjester1" <curtj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192201902.7...@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Gil Jesus
Curry's loyalty was to Johnson, not Kennedy. While a Presidential
murderer was running loose in Dallas and while his police officers
were gathering evidence, the Chief of Police did everything he could
to distance himself from the pursuit of the person or persons
responsible.
He drove Johnson from the hospital to Love Field, then remained aboard
Air Force One for a photo opportunity and to witness the swearing in
of his hero, Johnson.
Johnson didn't need Curry's protection. He had his and Kennedy's SS
details.
IMO, Curry was a scumbag who was derelict in his duty and
responsibility to lead his department in the pursuit of Kennedy's
killer or killers.
His refusal or inability to step up and lead his department in the
most famous murder fo the 20th century calls into question not only
his ability to lead, but his character as well.
curtjester1
> curtjester1 wrote:
> > The Secret Service was lax in it's protocol to for sure to insure a
> > safe Presidential motorcade in Dallas but also the Law Enforement end
> > was assigned too, as an aide to insure the safety of the trip and it's
> > implication as well. In the case of Dallas there were about 7 who
> > were heads of divisions as well as fifteen others who were on a
> > special payroll in the fact that they received bonuses from the upper
> > echelon's of Dallas to whom they did their bidding for. Curry's job
> > was to assign and even to be a lead car in the motorcade which would
> > have been to be on-the-look for any potential dangers. Agent Sorrells
>
> Curry was the Chief of Police and had gone on TV warning Dallas citizens
> to behave. Of course he is going to be the lead car. That does not make
> him a conspirator.
>
course up to this point we have him in a very deceptive mode if one
were just merely profiling as one would do in any investigation. He
avoided the 90 degree turn, and the 120 degree turn when 'showing the
route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
likely, he is going to go on TV and do perfunctory things like warn
the citizens 'to be good'.
It is how things did work then, in countries like Russia and France.
They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
> > after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
> > of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
> > past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
> > freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
> > direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
> > turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
>
> Please prove this. I have never heard this allegation before. On which
> day did that happen?
>
You just have to read what I wrote. That was on November 18th. I
would suggest that the storyline came from either Sorrells or Lawson,
either by testimony or by interview form. It should be noted here
too, that the two Dallas newspapers, The Herald and The Morning News,
ran articles on the motorcade route on the 19th without publishing a
map which would have exposed the hairpin turns, to Kennedy's staff.
Also Curry was the one that convinced the Trade Mart as the place to
have the luncheon on November 4th when there were four other places in
the running. The Trade Mart was key in making the trip through Dealey
Plaza.
He wasnt' going anywhere without either. Many of the people on the
flight wouldn't even go near LBJ because they thought he was the cause
of all this. When LBJ was going to get off the plane, they suggested
that the body be taken off first which he went into a tirade. He
wanted to go off first, and even stewed about it for days. No wonder
Jackie departed to Europe afterwards. She thought America to be too
corrupt to raise her children.
> > But when Johnson arrived at the airport, he did not leave as everyone
> > advised. Bear in mind that in 1963, the nations of this earth were
> > not living in peace and harmony, and it was a frightened America which
> > had just lost its leader. Nevertheless, Johnson again overruled the
> > advice of the security staff, the Secret Service, the White House
> > staff, and even President Kennedy's brother, Bobby, that he quickly
> > get airbore for the good of the nation. Rather, he first demanded
> > that his luggage be taken off his plane and transferred to Kennedy's
> > plane (both planes had the same sophisticated communications equipment
> > and the term "Air Force One" applies to any plane on which a President
> > flies). What Johnson wanted was to fly back to Washington on
> > Kennedy's plane. When the transfer of baggage was finally
> > accomplished, Johnson still refused to leave, claimng he wanted to
> > take Kennedy's body back with him on the plane. After this delaying
> > order was implemented, Johnson delayed his departure even more by
> > stating that he wanted to take his Oath of Office on Texas soil. The
> > required locating a Federal Judge and bringing her back to the plane.
> > During all of this delay in time of crisis, so far as everyone
> > observed, Johnson passed the time watching TV, drinking bottled water,
> > eating soup, and twice changing his shirt to get ready for the
> > swearing in ceremony. It was hours before Johnson finally left the
> > city, and it was only when Oswald was captured that he left.
>
> Was it hours that Johnson was on the plane waiting to take off?
Who knows if it was hours and hours but it was a good while. He had
to find a swearing in person. He had to change the planes which
included the luggage. He changed his shirt twice and did all the
things that people said he did, like eat, drink, and watch TV. Of
course he didn't leave before the news of Oswald being captured,
either.
CJ
lazu...@webtv.net
imminent threat to the U.S. from the Soviet Union. Did he contact
Kruschev? Did he place the military and NORAD on high alert?
Right away he seemed to know, via Hoover's assurances, that LHO pulled
off the assassination all alone. Doesn't smell right.-----Old Laz
Fat...@aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Gil Jesus wrote:
> >> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew Kennedy
> >> was dead.
>
> >Kennedy was effectively dead on arrival.
> >Johnson did not leave immediately after the President was declared dead
> >at 1:07. And he would not leave without Jackie and Jackie would not
> >leave without her husband's body.
>
> >> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( which
> >> he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
> >> President )
>
> >Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
> >in first.
>
> That's certainly one 'explanation' for the events.
>
> >> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>
> >That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
>
> Actually, theres a *tremendous* amount of "proof" for Johnson's attitude toward
> others.
>
That may well be but there is no proof that Johnson treated Jackie
badly the day of the assassination or any other time.
William Manchester's account of Johnson's treatment of Jackie has more
or less been dismissed as inaccurate.
Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
> On 12 Oct, 22:29, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> curtjester1 wrote:
>>> The Secret Service was lax in it's protocol to for sure to insure a
>>> safe Presidential motorcade in Dallas but also the Law Enforement end
>>> was assigned too, as an aide to insure the safety of the trip and it's
>>> implication as well. In the case of Dallas there were about 7 who
>>> were heads of divisions as well as fifteen others who were on a
>>> special payroll in the fact that they received bonuses from the upper
>>> echelon's of Dallas to whom they did their bidding for. Curry's job
>>> was to assign and even to be a lead car in the motorcade which would
>>> have been to be on-the-look for any potential dangers. Agent Sorrells
>> Curry was the Chief of Police and had gone on TV warning Dallas citizens
>> to behave. Of course he is going to be the lead car. That does not make
>> him a conspirator.
>>
> Not in itself, but neither does it show that he couldn't be. Of
> course up to this point we have him in a very deceptive mode if one
> were just merely profiling as one would do in any investigation. He
> avoided the 90 degree turn, and the 120 degree turn when 'showing the
I thought you were talking only about one of the days they were testing
the motorcade route. Surely your claim is not about 11/22/63. Tell me
the date you think this happened. Maybe he went to lunch that day.
> route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
> everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
> what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
I see no reason to be in a convertible.
Some countries did, others did not. Remember the trips to Mexico and
South America where mobs attacked US politicians.
> They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
>
Things are different in different countries.
>>> after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
>>> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
>>> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
>>> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
>>> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
>>> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
>> Please prove this. I have never heard this allegation before. On which
>> day did that happen?
>>
> You just have to read what I wrote. That was on November 18th. I
> would suggest that the storyline came from either Sorrells or Lawson,
> either by testimony or by interview form. It should be noted here
You read this somewhere? Then cite it and quote it. I am not going to
base any conclusions on someone's faulty memory. You have a habit of
getting details wrong and simply guessing.
> too, that the two Dallas newspapers, The Herald and The Morning News,
> ran articles on the motorcade route on the 19th without publishing a
> map which would have exposed the hairpin turns, to Kennedy's staff.
Why would the staff be concerned about the hairpin turn, singular?
They were not concerned about having the bubble top on or having the
limo be bullet proof.
> Also Curry was the one that convinced the Trade Mart as the place to
> have the luncheon on November 4th when there were four other places in
Again, so what?
Innuendo like this is proof of desperation, not of fact.
> the running. The Trade Mart was key in making the trip through Dealey
> Plaza.
>
Of course it was. It was the destination.
That is not true. No one refused to fly on the plane. No one then
expressed the opinion that LBJ was behind it.
> that the body be taken off first which he went into a tirade. He
> wanted to go off first, and even stewed about it for days. No wonder
> Jackie departed to Europe afterwards. She thought America to be too
> corrupt to raise her children.
>
That's silly. LBJ walked down the ramp in the front and Jackie with the
coffin went onto a forklift at the rear.
In your fervor you get a lot of details wrong. Jackie did not leave the
US until after Bobby was assassinated. She got along well with LBJ.
>>> But when Johnson arrived at the airport, he did not leave as everyone
>>> advised. Bear in mind that in 1963, the nations of this earth were
>>> not living in peace and harmony, and it was a frightened America which
>>> had just lost its leader. Nevertheless, Johnson again overruled the
>>> advice of the security staff, the Secret Service, the White House
>>> staff, and even President Kennedy's brother, Bobby, that he quickly
>>> get airbore for the good of the nation. Rather, he first demanded
>>> that his luggage be taken off his plane and transferred to Kennedy's
>>> plane (both planes had the same sophisticated communications equipment
>>> and the term "Air Force One" applies to any plane on which a President
>>> flies). What Johnson wanted was to fly back to Washington on
>>> Kennedy's plane. When the transfer of baggage was finally
>>> accomplished, Johnson still refused to leave, claimng he wanted to
>>> take Kennedy's body back with him on the plane. After this delaying
>>> order was implemented, Johnson delayed his departure even more by
>>> stating that he wanted to take his Oath of Office on Texas soil. The
>>> required locating a Federal Judge and bringing her back to the plane.
>>> During all of this delay in time of crisis, so far as everyone
>>> observed, Johnson passed the time watching TV, drinking bottled water,
>>> eating soup, and twice changing his shirt to get ready for the
>>> swearing in ceremony. It was hours before Johnson finally left the
>>> city, and it was only when Oswald was captured that he left.
>> Was it hours that Johnson was on the plane waiting to take off?
>
> Who knows if it was hours and hours but it was a good while. He had
No, that's my point. It wasn't hours. Kennedy died at 1:07. The casket
was put onboard at 2:18 and the plane took off at 2:47. By my math
that's only 29 minutes, not hours.
> to find a swearing in person. He had to change the planes which
> included the luggage. He changed his shirt twice and did all the
He had his clothes taken off Air Force Two and put on Air Force One?
I'm shocked. And you think that proves that he was the mastermind? Maybe
if he had done that BEFORE the motorcade.
Anthony Marsh
Even if we grant your rantings arguendo, it only shows his incompetence,
not that he was a conspirator.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 12, 2:18 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew
>> Kennedy was dead.
>>
>> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( > which he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he
>> automatically became President )
>>
>> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>>
>> Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for
>> time, as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken
>> aboard a military transport and flown off to Washington.
>>
>> Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
>> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets
>> from the body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>>
>> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy
>> ambulance with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile"
>> was removed atWalter Reed and given to the Secret Service,
>> who turned it over to the FBI at Bethesda and received
>> a "receipt" for it.
>> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not
>> match Oswald's rifle.
>
> Of course Gil , like all good CTer's , doesn't bother with telling us
> how the body snatchers managed to take a blood soaked body out of a
It's not my theory, but why do you say blood soaked? The body was cleaned
up and wrapped up in sheets at Parkland to prepare it for shipping.
> casket in front of dozens of people off a elevated tarmac that Air
> Force One Jet Plane was on and keep all these witnesses silent after
> doing so . Probably only a minor detail in his mind .
>
Some people think it could be taken out the back door on the opposite
side without being noticed.
> Also :
>
> Lifton's Claim Of " Surgery To The Head Area " Prior To Autopsy In
> Which He Based His Book ' Best Evidence ' and Concocted A Musical
> Casket Routine of Titanical Funnyness Is Repudiated Below :
>
> (62) Sibert and O'Neill, p. 3. In their report, Sibert and O'Neill
> also stated that surgery had been performed on the head area prior to
> the arrival of the body at Bethesda Naval Hospital. The committee
> concludes that this report was in error. In an affidavit to the
> committee, Sibert acknowledged that the statement that head surgery
> was performed was determined "not to be correct following detailed
> inspection." See affidavit of James Sibert, Oct. 24, 1978, House
> Select Committee on Assassinations
> (JFK Document No. 012806).
>
Humes had that impression from seeing the gauze squares that had been
packed into the head wound.
Ben Holmes
Fat...@aol.com says...
>
>On Oct 12, 11:04 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@websitewealthcollege.com>
>wrote:
>>In article <HfydnSlYMrUjb5LanZ2dnUVZ_sakn...@comcast.com>, Anthony Marsh says...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Gil Jesus wrote:
>> >> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew Kennedy
>> >> was dead.
>>
>> >Kennedy was effectively dead on arrival.
>> >Johnson did not leave immediately after the President was declared dead
>> >at 1:07. And he would not leave without Jackie and Jackie would not
>> >leave without her husband's body.
>>
>> >> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( which
>> >> he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
>> >> President )
>>
>> >Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
>> >in first.
>>
>> That's certainly one 'explanation' for the events.
>>
>> >> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>>
>> >That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
>>
>> Actually, theres a *tremendous* amount of "proof" for Johnson's attitude
>> toward others.
>
>That may well be
Then the assertion that "there's no proof for that" might be just a tad
overstated, wouldn't you say?
Ben Holmes
You sound like you're talking to yourself, Tony.
>> too, that the two Dallas newspapers, The Herald and The Morning News,
>> ran articles on the motorcade route on the 19th without publishing a
>> map which would have exposed the hairpin turns, to Kennedy's staff.
>
>Why would the staff be concerned about the hairpin turn, singular?
>They were not concerned about having the bubble top on or having the
>limo be bullet proof.
>
>> Also Curry was the one that convinced the Trade Mart as the place to
>> have the luncheon on November 4th when there were four other places in
>
>Again, so what?
>Innuendo like this is proof of desperation, not of fact.
"Desperation?" How about a LNT'er pretending to be a CT'er who can't answer the
evidence?
Ben Holmes
Tony wouldn't point to Ruby as a conspirator if the famous photo of him shooting
Oswald had shown him in a whispered conversation with LHO for several minutes
beforehand...
Ben Holmes
Tony always enjoys putting forth his ideas as fact.
aeffects
> In article <eumdnYubhvsv8ozanZ2dnUVZ_gWdn...@comcast.com>, Anthony Marsh says...
LMAO!
thali...@hotmail.com
> The Secret Service was lax in it's protocol to for sure to insure a
> safe Presidential motorcade in Dallas but also the Law Enforement end
> was assigned too, as an aide to insure the safety of the trip and it's
> implication as well. In the case of Dallas there were about 7 who
> were heads of divisions as well as fifteen others who were on a
> special payroll in the fact that they received bonuses from the upper
> echelon's of Dallas to whom they did their bidding for. Curry's job
> was to assign and even to be a lead car in the motorcade which would
> have been to be on-the-look for any potential dangers. Agent Sorrells
> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
> have been obliged to make a 90 degree right turn to the left followed
> 70 yards later by a 120 degree turn to the left into Elm Street.
>
> After the assassination and the confusion of how they even arrived at
> Parkland Hospital with the pictures taken on the west side of the
> Triple Underpass showing that the limo with the injured passing Curry
> and the Pilot Car, Curry ended up at Parkland. After the President
> was dead and even though it was not his job, he did not choose to lead
> his police team investigating the major crime of the century, where he
> did things like oversee the search of the limousine for evidence and
> just tagging along with Johnson. With unknown assassin(s) on the
> Dallas. Yet, the Chief volunteered to escort Johnson to the plane and
> then spent the next 90 minutes sitting with Johnson. When Johnson was
> sworn in aboard Air Force One, others on the plane complained
> bitterely that Chief Curry was trying to push his way into every
> photograph.
>
> There seems to be no rational explanation for Johnson's conduct during
> the same time period. As President Kennedy lay dying at Parkland
> Memorial Hospital, Johnson stood nearby. The Presidential had just
> been shot by assassins and, so far as anyone knew, the killing may
> have been a prelude to a nuclear military attack, a bloody coup, a
> secuity staff orders that Johnson leave the area for his own and the
> country's safety, he flatly refused. In the midst of the crisis, and
> with himself as a next possible victim, he refused to leave until he
> made sure that Kennedy was dead. When the news of Kennedy's death was
> first broken to him, he still refused to leave until another staff
> member was sent back to reconfirm the death. When he was reassured
> that the President was actually dead, Johnson finally left for the
> airport.
>
> advised. Bear in mind that in 1963, the nations of this earth were
> not living in peace and harmony, and it was a frightened America which
> had just lost its leader. Nevertheless, Johnson again overruled the
> advice of the security staff, the Secret Service, the White House
> staff, and even President Kennedy's brother, Bobby, that he quickly
> get airbore for the good of the nation. Rather, he first demanded
> that his luggage be taken off his plane and transferred to Kennedy's
> plane (both planes had the same sophisticated communications equipment
> and the term "Air Force One" applies to any plane on which a President
> flies). What Johnson wanted was to fly back to Washington on
> Kennedy's plane. When the transfer of baggage was finally
> accomplished, Johnson still refused to leave, claimng he wanted to
> take Kennedy's body back with him on the plane. After this delaying
> order was implemented, Johnson delayed his departure even more by
> stating that he wanted to take his Oath of Office on Texas soil. The
> required locating a Federal Judge and bringing her back to the plane.
> During all of this delay in time of crisis, so far as everyone
> observed, Johnson passed the time watching TV, drinking bottled water,
> eating soup, and twice changing his shirt to get ready for the
> swearing in ceremony. It was hours before Johnson finally left the
> city, and it was only when Oswald was captured that he left.
>
>
> read more ยป
That photo of Johnson winking to a senator when he is being sworn in
as president with Jackie beside him on the plane gives me the creeps.
How insensitive. I am warming to the idea Johnson was behind the
assassination, after all he is the one who benefitted most. According
to E. Howard Hunt's son, Hunt told him before he died Johnson was
behind JFK's assassination. Johnson would never have been President if
it was not for JFK's untimely death.
Fat...@aol.com
wrote:
> In article <1192321244.945035.233...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
> Fatm...@aol.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 12, 11:04 pm, Ben Holmes <ad...@websitewealthcollege.com>
> >wrote:
> >>In article <HfydnSlYMrUjb5LanZ2dnUVZ_sakn...@comcast.com>, Anthony Marsh says...
>
> >> >Gil Jesus wrote:
> >> >> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew Kennedy
> >> >> was dead.
>
> >> >Kennedy was effectively dead on arrival.
> >> >Johnson did not leave immediately after the President was declared dead
> >> >at 1:07. And he would not leave without Jackie and Jackie would not
> >> >leave without her husband's body.
>
> >> >> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( which
> >> >> he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
> >> >> President )
>
> >> >Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
> >> >in first.
>
> >> That's certainly one 'explanation' for the events.
>
> >> >> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>
> >> >That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
>
> >> Actually, theres a *tremendous* amount of "proof" for Johnson's attitude
> >> toward others.
>
> >That may well be
>
> Then the assertion that "there's no proof for that" might be just a tad
> overstated, wouldn't you say?
Probably not since the claim was such bullshit to start with.
Do you have proof?
Bill Clarke
>
> >but there is no proof that Johnson treated Jackie
> >badly the day of the assassination or any other time.
>
> >William Manchester's account of Johnson's treatment of Jackie has more
> >or less been dismissed as inaccurate.
>
> >Bill Clarke- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Ben Holmes
Fat...@aol.com says...
Why should I argue with you when even *you* recognize that there *IS* evidence
of LBJ's character - such that this would be a reasonable assertion.
That was my entire point, no need to continue driving it into the ground.
While I might agree that "Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow" is a tad
overstated, I disagree most strongly that there's no "proof of that". There is
indeed very persuasive "proof" of the type of character that LBJ had, and
indeed, he demonstrated great callousness *TOWARD JACKIE* in the days that
followed.
Gil Jesus
> That photo of Johnson winking to a senator when he is being sworn in
> as president with Jackie beside him on the plane gives me the creeps.
> How insensitive. I ย am warming to the idea Johnson was behind the
> assassination, after all he is the one who benefitted most. According
> to E. Howard Hunt's son, Hunt told him before he died Johnson was
> behind JFK's assassination. Johnson would never have been President if
> it was not for JFK's untimely death.
Thalia, the photo was of Johnson turning and looking back at Texas
Congressman Albert Thomas, who was th eman doing the winking. The
photo is here:
http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/13a0xoPwH9cxa3KrDAl1dkO-zNdDARA*p-Bbv4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l.jpg
Albert Thomas was considering retirement from the US Congress. A
dinner in his honor was held in Houston on the evening of November
21st by those hoping to convince him to remain in Congress. It was
this event that was used to lure Kennedy to Texas.
Congressman Thomas' winking at Johnson aboard AF-1 after the swearing-
in is indicative of how deep the Texas conspiracy to put LBJ in office
by murdering Kennedy was.
Yes it is a creepy sight.
PS: Thomas did not retire at that time.
Sam Brown
<thali...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192379039.4...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Funny, I've never seen the photo of *Johnson* winking at anyone. Perhaps
you could provide a link?
Thankyou.
curtjester1
>
> - Show quoted text -
Manchester had so much stuff on LBJ that it would have done him in,
that's why the Kennedy's wouldn't approve it for copy. They knew it
would destroy Bobby politically if it came out.
LBJ treated everyone as a "pissant". That included people of power
that he had to rub out for poltical expediency.
CJ
tomnln
"Sam Brown" <samjb...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4712bef8$0$12802$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Anthony Marsh
You can't see Johnson winking. The other guy is the one winking. So maybe
the other guy is saying that the fix is in. That does not implicate LBJ in
the murder. Innuendo is not evidence.
curtjester1
Even LBJ's grandmother was to have said that LBJ growing up was just no
good, and didn't say that about any of the other relatives. She said the
guy was just destined for jail. Ruby knew who was behind it, as he was an
errand boy for H.L. Hunt and the Texas cronies which LBJ was a part of who
Ruby touched bases with. He recommended from jail the Evetts book from a
Texas inner circle politician denouncing just how corrupt and vicious LBJ
actuall was. And Ruby's rants were on the topic of conspiracy, not just
him landing in jail.
CJ
curtjester1
> You would do well to read No More Silence, the book of interviews collected
> by Larry Sneed.
>
> Martin
>
Noted. But why can't you tease us a little?
CJ
> "curtjester1" <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> ...
>
> read more ยป- Hide quoted text -
curtjester1
> curtjester1 wrote:
> > On 12 Oct, 22:29, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> curtjester1 wrote:
> >>> The Secret Service was lax in it's protocol to for sure to insure a
> >>> safe Presidential motorcade in Dallas but also the Law Enforement end
> >>> was assigned too, as an aide to insure the safety of the trip and it's
> >>> implication as well. In the case of Dallas there were about 7 who
> >>> were heads of divisions as well as fifteen others who were on a
> >>> special payroll in the fact that they received bonuses from the upper
> >>> echelon's of Dallas to whom they did their bidding for. Curry's job
> >>> was to assign and even to be a lead car in the motorcade which would
> >>> have been to be on-the-look for any potential dangers. Agent Sorrells
> >> Curry was the Chief of Police and had gone on TV warning Dallas citizens
> >> to behave. Of course he is going to be the lead car. That does not make
> >> him a conspirator.
>
> > Not in itself, but neither does it show that he couldn't be. Of
> > course up to this point we have him in a very deceptive mode if one
> > were just merely profiling as one would do in any investigation. He
> > avoided the 90 degree turn, and the 120 degree turn when 'showing the
>
> I thought you were talking only about one of the days they were testing
> the motorcade route. Surely your claim is not about 11/22/63. Tell me
> the date you think this happened. Maybe he went to lunch that day.
>
> > route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
> > everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
> > what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
>
> I see no reason to be in a convertible.
>
Sorrels said he couldn't see a thing. Reason enough?
I am speaking of other countries in their security, are more demanding and
careful.
> > They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
>
> Things are different in different countries.
>
Yep, and I bet the SS bet's their country was after the assassination.
> >>> after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
> >>> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
> >>> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
> >>> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
> >>> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
> >>> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
> >> Please prove this. I have never heard this allegation before. On which
> >> day did that happen?
>
> > You just have to read what I wrote. That was on November 18th. I
> > would suggest that the storyline came from either Sorrells or Lawson,
> > either by testimony or by interview form. It should be noted here
>
> You read this somewhere? Then cite it and quote it. I am not going to
> base any conclusions on someone's faulty memory. You have a habit of
> getting details wrong and simply guessing.
>
I don't have a habit of guessing. You have a habit of not reading up on
the assassination. I gave you a good clue, with a date and the people in
the car, so you can go from there. Do you think it would be odd that they
woundn't take a spin on the route beforehand?
> > too, that the two Dallas newspapers, The Herald and The Morning News,
> > ran articles on the motorcade route on the 19th without publishing a
> > map which would have exposed the hairpin turns, to Kennedy's staff.
>
> Why would the staff be concerned about the hairpin turn, singular?
> They were not concerned about having the bubble top on or having the
> limo be bullet proof.
>
That's like saying the staff should be incompetent. Of course they were
incompetent that's been history written, but the route had been discussed
beforehand and the only way it got approved was a telephone ruse by
Connally that 'signified' it was 'ok', by Washington to soothe the
complainers of the route.
> > Also Curry was the one that convinced the Trade Mart as the place to
> > have the luncheon on November 4th when there were four other places in
>
> Again, so what?
> Innuendo like this is proof of desperation, not of fact.
>
I am not trying to prove absolutes, but profile the itineray of people
that should be looked at. I would find it odd that the Trade Mart would
have to stand out over the other selections and they would actually balk
if it were not chosen like they did.
> > the running. The Trade Mart was key in making the trip through Dealey
> > Plaza.
>
> Of course it was. It was the destination.
>
But of course if it wasn't the destination it would throw the pre-
planned Dealey Plaza assassination into the dumpster. Get it?
Were you on that plane? How come it was reported on?
> > that the body be taken off first which he went into a tirade. He
> > wanted to go off first, and even stewed about it for days. No wonder
> > Jackie departed to Europe afterwards. She thought America to be too
> > corrupt to raise her children.
>
> That's silly. LBJ walked down the ramp in the front and Jackie with the
> coffin went onto a forklift at the rear.
Why would someone insist on that if they weren't demented? And stew
about it for days afterward??!!
> In your fervor you get a lot of details wrong. Jackie did not leave the
> US until after Bobby was assassinated. She got along well with LBJ.
>
Wrong.
When was the luggage put on? When did they call the swearing in lady?
When did she arrive?
> > to find a swearing in person. He had to change the planes which
> > included the luggage. He changed his shirt twice and did all the
>
> He had his clothes taken off Air Force Two and put on Air Force One?
> I'm shocked. And you think that proves that he was the mastermind? Maybe
> if he had done that BEFORE the motorcade.> things that people said he did, like eat, drink, and watch TV. Of
I am shocked that you're thinking like a CT.
CJ
Anthony Marsh
No, it does not show JOHNSON winking.
Ben Holmes
>
>tomnln wrote:
>> Find it HERE sam>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
>>
>
>No, it does not show JOHNSON winking.
It's far better evidence of Johnson winking than the evidence you've cited for
Dr. Humes burning anything at all on Saturday...
Sam Brown
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BPednZ3DDrRsmYna...@comcast.com...
Anthony Marsh
So, what does that have to do with their knowing about the turn onto
Houston? Even the newspapers knew about that.
>
>>> route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
>>> everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
>>> what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
>> I see no reason to be in a convertible.
>>
> Sorrels said he couldn't see a thing. Reason enough?
>
No.
Of course they are.
>>> They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
>> Things are different in different countries.
>>
> Yep, and I bet the SS bet's their country was after the assassination.
>
The SS always wanted tighter security and had fits when Presidents did
not follow their suggestions.
>>>>> after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
>>>>> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
>>>>> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
>>>>> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
>>>>> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
>>>>> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
>>>> Please prove this. I have never heard this allegation before. On which
>>>> day did that happen?
>>> You just have to read what I wrote. That was on November 18th. I
>>> would suggest that the storyline came from either Sorrells or Lawson,
>>> either by testimony or by interview form. It should be noted here
>> You read this somewhere? Then cite it and quote it. I am not going to
>> base any conclusions on someone's faulty memory. You have a habit of
>> getting details wrong and simply guessing.
>>
>
> I don't have a habit of guessing. You have a habit of not reading up on
> the assassination. I gave you a good clue, with a date and the people in
> the car, so you can go from there. Do you think it would be odd that they
> woundn't take a spin on the route beforehand?
>
They did.
>>> too, that the two Dallas newspapers, The Herald and The Morning News,
>>> ran articles on the motorcade route on the 19th without publishing a
>>> map which would have exposed the hairpin turns, to Kennedy's staff.
>> Why would the staff be concerned about the hairpin turn, singular?
>> They were not concerned about having the bubble top on or having the
>> limo be bullet proof.
>>
>
> That's like saying the staff should be incompetent. Of course they were
> incompetent that's been history written, but the route had been discussed
> beforehand and the only way it got approved was a telephone ruse by
> Connally that 'signified' it was 'ok', by Washington to soothe the
> complainers of the route.
>
The WH staff did not deal with every element of the trip. Different
people did different things.
>
>>> Also Curry was the one that convinced the Trade Mart as the place to
>>> have the luncheon on November 4th when there were four other places in
>> Again, so what?
>> Innuendo like this is proof of desperation, not of fact.
>>
>
> I am not trying to prove absolutes, but profile the itineray of people
> that should be looked at. I would find it odd that the Trade Mart would
> have to stand out over the other selections and they would actually balk
> if it were not chosen like they did.
>
What's wrong with the Trade Mart?
>
>>> the running. The Trade Mart was key in making the trip through Dealey
>>> Plaza.
>> Of course it was. It was the destination.
>>
>
> But of course if it wasn't the destination it would throw the pre-
> planned Dealey Plaza assassination into the dumpster. Get it?
>
No. They could still go through Dealey Plaza or move the assassins to
another location.
Who reported what? Source please.
>>> that the body be taken off first which he went into a tirade. He
>>> wanted to go off first, and even stewed about it for days. No wonder
>>> Jackie departed to Europe afterwards. She thought America to be too
>>> corrupt to raise her children.
>> That's silly. LBJ walked down the ramp in the front and Jackie with the
>> coffin went onto a forklift at the rear.
>
> Why would someone insist on that if they weren't demented? And stew
> about it for days afterward??!!
>
Who insisted on what? That is the way it was done. Deal with the reality.
tomnln
This is the ONLY "winking photo" from 11/22/63 referred to.
"Sam Brown" <samjb...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:47144391$0$18984$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Walt
> On Oct 14, 6:44?pm, thaliac...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > That photo of Johnson winking to a senator when he is being sworn in
> > as president with Jackie beside him on the plane gives me the creeps.
> > assassination,
I'm a little disappointed that you're just now warming to the idea
that Lyin Bastard Johnson was the monster who put the whole conspiracy
in motion. He knew of his buddy Hoover's loathing of the Kennedy's
and he knew he could count on Hoover to cover his ass after the
murder. Johnson knew of the plots afoot to kill JFK and realized
that he could instigate a plot of his own making and then after the
fact there would be great confusion about which plot had actually
succeeded.
Johnson knew that there would be many people ducking and running for
cover, to distant themselves from the murder.
Many of those people who were running for cover ( CIA, Mafia, Cubans,
military war hawks, etc) didn't know that it wasn't their plot that
had succeeded, so they lied and denied at every opportunity. ( they're
still lying and denying) But the bottom line is .......Johnson and
Hoover are the true killers.
Walt
after all he is the one who benefitted most. According
> > to E. Howard Hunt's son, Hunt told him before he died Johnson was
> > behind JFK's assassination. Johnson would never have been President if
> > it was not for JFK's untimely death.
>
> Thalia, the photo was of Johnson turning and looking back at Texas
> Congressman Albert Thomas, who was th eman doing the winking. The
> photo is here:
>
> http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/13a0xoPwH9cxa3KrDAl1dkO-zNdDARA*p-B...
Gil Jesus
yet that Johnson was involved in the PLANNING of the assasssination,
but I am convinced that AT LEAST his Texas cronies WERE involved and
that at the very LEAST Johnson and Hoover knew about it beforehand and
covered it up afterward to protect those friendly Texas asses.
Having once gotten away with murder, the conspiractors knew that they
could kill the President's younger brother Bobby and Johnson would
cover it up. Once Johnson announced he would not seek re-election the
clock was ticking on the life of RFK. Had Bobby been elected, he would
have pursued his brother's REAL killers. They knew it. And they also
knew that they had to get him before the November election.
The murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was in effect, a smokescreen
designed to turn our national attention away from assassination as a
political tool and to focus that attention on murder with a racial
motive.
It drew our attention away from the danger that faced Robert F.
Kennedy.
They finally got him, two months later.
tomnln
SEE>>> http://www.thekingcenter.org/tkc/trial.html
Actual Trial Transcript.
"Gil Jesus" <gjj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1192571907.6...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Fat...@aol.com
> In article <1192402717.277443.146...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
My entire point was pointing out that LBJ wasn't rude to Jackie the
day of the assassination. Just because LBJ could be an ass doesn't
prove he was *TOWARD JACKIE* the day of the assassination. In fact, I
believe that Johnson and Jackie had a cordial relationship before and
after the assassination.
> While I might agree that "Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow" is a tad
> overstated, I disagree most strongly that there's no "proof of that". There is
> indeed very persuasive "proof" of the type of character that LBJ had, and
> indeed, he demonstrated great callousness *TOWARD JACKIE* in the days that
> followed.
>
Could you please expand on this great callowness toward Jackie in the
days that followed? Please be specific. I'm not arguing that LBJ
could be an ass; he could be. I do argue that he wasn't rude to
Jackie the day of the assassination.
Bill Clarke
Fat...@aol.com
Horse apples. The Kennedy family wasn't that in love with LBJ and
Bobby hated him. They would have made no move to help LBJ. The
reason the family went to court to delete parts of the book had to do
with Kennedy family news they didn't want public.
> LBJ treated everyone as a "pissant". That included people of power
> that he had to rub out for poltical expediency.
>
Great ghost man! You mean LBJ "rubbed out" more than just JFK?
Please name them.
Bill Clarke
Ben Holmes
Fat...@aol.com says...
I'd prefer to let you answer the question. Tell the lurkers here when Jackie
was asked to leave the White House.
curtjester1
with JED. The President really did too, but bit his lip mostly, until
the blowout the night before the assassination about the seating
arrangement. His last communication with his secretary was that LBJ
was not going to be on his ticket. The total crassness of booting the
secretary and Jackie out of the WH the day of the funeral had to send
her into a frenzy, and she was there when JFK had the blowout the
night before the assassination too.
> > LBJ treated everyone as a "pissant". That included people of power
> > that he had to rub out for poltical expediency.
>
> Great ghost man! You mean LBJ "rubbed out" more than just JFK?
> Please name them.
>
LBJ was tied into Malcolm Wallace, and others to do his dirty work.
Read the Texas politicos that knew him and his antics: Haley,
McClellan, Brown, and Zirbel. There was at least nine murders that he
was heavlily implicated into with the 'suicide' of Marshall the most
notable. Recommended also is the stolen elections, the Billy Sol
Estes affair and his later talking, and the Bobby Baker thing that was
unfolding at the time of the assassination. Many think LBJ had no
choice but to kill JFK as his only hope for survival and his demented
desire for the Presidency. Actually the JFK assassination bought him
time for the Baker affair, and it well, worked out just perfect for
him.
CJ
curtjester1
beforehand. Curry stopped short before he got right into the Plaza
and just pointed at the direction of the Triple Underpass neglecting
to go the whole way of the motorcade route. In fact he turned left
before he got to Houston. The newspapers come under suspicion as well
for not detailing on a map about the turns. They just had a straight
line.
>
>
> >>> route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
> >>> everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
> >>> what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
> >> I see no reason to be in a convertible.
>
> > Sorrels said he couldn't see a thing. Reason enough?
>
> No.
>
It's obvious that one could see if they had a convertible. It's only
natural to think if Curry were privy to the plot and was complicit he
might be going along with the plot, and that would be to do things
like tell his forces not to look at buildings and just the motorcade,
and being in a sedan would certainly keep them at bay from any bullets
flying there way, as well as an inability to watch potential shooters
or suspicous activity for which they should have been doing for their
place in the motorcade. It's interesting to note, that Curry
according to Madeleine Brown was also at the Murchison Party the night
before the assassination.
The U.S. should be number one, and I am sure it was a huge
embarrassment afterwards.
> >>> They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
> >> Things are different in different countries.
>
> > Yep, and I bet the SS bet's their country was after the assassination.
>
> The SS always wanted tighter security and had fits when Presidents did
> not follow their suggestions.
>
Well I can't see any pluses for SS's tighter security other than
keeping men near the limo and the bubbletop. JFK certainly should
have listened about what they were saying about 'Nut Country'. That's
why the conspirators were following around to different cities prior,
so they could see any breaks, to see what they could get away with.
Of course Connally and LBJ increased the cities from one to five in
Texas to put that aspect under suspicion as well.
> >>>>> after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
> >>>>> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
> >>>>> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
> >>>>> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
> >>>>> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
> >>>>> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
> >>>> Please prove this. I have never heard this allegation before. On which
> >>>> day did that happen?
> >>> You just have to read what I wrote. That was on November 18th. I
> >>> would suggest that the storyline came from either Sorrells or Lawson,
> >>> either by testimony or by interview form. It should be noted here
> >> You read this somewhere? Then cite it and quote it. I am not going to
> >> base any conclusions on someone's faulty memory. You have a habit of
> >> getting details wrong and simply guessing.
>
> > I don't have a habit of guessing. You have a habit of not reading up on
> > the assassination. I gave you a good clue, with a date and the people in
> > the car, so you can go from there. Do you think it would be odd that they
> > woundn't take a spin on the route beforehand?
>
Cutting short because of computer malfunction.
CJ
Fat...@aol.com
> On 14 Oct, 23:14, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 14, 6:44?pm, thaliac...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > That photo of Johnson winking to a senator when he is being sworn in
> > > as president with Jackie beside him on the plane gives me the creeps.
> > > How insensitive. I ?am warming to the idea Johnson was behind the
> > > assassination,
>
> I'm a little disappointed that you're just now warming to the idea
> that Lyin Bastard Johnson was the monster who put the whole conspiracy
> in motion.
I'm a little disappointed that two grown (I assume) men would believe
such crap.
Bill Clarke
curtjester1
Curry knowing the route was showing Lawson and Sorrels the route
beforehand. Curry stopped short before he got right into the Plaza and
just pointed at the direction of the Triple Underpass neglecting to go the
whole way of the motorcade route. In fact he turned left before he got to
Houston. The newspapers come under suspicion as well for not detailing on
a map about the turns. They just had a straight line.
>
>
> >>> route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
> >>> everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
> >>> what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
> >> I see no reason to be in a convertible.
>
> > Sorrels said he couldn't see a thing. Reason enough?
>
> No.
>
It's obvious that one could see if they had a convertible. It's only
natural to think if Curry were privy to the plot and was complicit he
might be going along with the plot, and that would be to do things like
tell his forces not to look at buildings and just the motorcade, and being
in a sedan would certainly keep them at bay from any bullets flying there
way, as well as an inability to watch potential shooters or suspicous
activity for which they should have been doing for their place in the
motorcade. It's interesting to note, that Curry according to Madeleine
Brown was also at the Murchison Party the night before the assassination.
> >>> likely, he is going to go on TV and do perfunctory things like warn
The U.S. should be number one, and I am sure it was a huge embarrassment
afterwards.
> >>> They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
> >> Things are different in different countries.
>
> > Yep, and I bet the SS bet's their country was after the assassination.
>
> The SS always wanted tighter security and had fits when Presidents did
> not follow their suggestions.
>
Well I can't see any pluses for SS's tighter security other than keeping
men near the limo and the bubbletop. JFK certainly should have listened
about what they were saying about 'Nut Country'. That's why the
conspirators were following around to different cities prior, so they
could see any breaks, to see what they could get away with. Of course
Connally and LBJ increased the cities from one to five in Texas to put
that aspect under suspicion as well.
> >>>>> after they (Curry, Sorrels, and Lawson) had driven through the center
> >>>>> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
> >>>>> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
> >>>>> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
> >>>>> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
> >>>>> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
> >>>> Please prove this. I have never heard this allegation before. On which
> >>>> day did that happen?
> >>> You just have to read what I wrote. That was on November 18th. I
> >>> would suggest that the storyline came from either Sorrells or Lawson,
> >>> either by testimony or by interview form. It should be noted here
> >> You read this somewhere? Then cite it and quote it. I am not going to
> >> base any conclusions on someone's faulty memory. You have a habit of
> >> getting details wrong and simply guessing.
>
> > I don't have a habit of guessing. You have a habit of not reading up on
> > the assassination. I gave you a good clue, with a date and the people in
> > the car, so you can go from there. Do you think it would be odd that they
> > woundn't take a spin on the route beforehand?
>
Cutting short because of computer malfunction.
CJ
Anthony Marsh
Again, so what? Maybe he was lazy. Maybe he was in a hurry to do
something else.
> for not detailing on a map about the turns. They just had a straight
> line.
>
No, they did not all. And they listed the turns.
>
>>
>>>>> route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
>>>>> everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
>>>>> what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
>>>> I see no reason to be in a convertible.
>>> Sorrels said he couldn't see a thing. Reason enough?
>> No.
>>
> It's obvious that one could see if they had a convertible. It's only
> natural to think if Curry were privy to the plot and was complicit he
> might be going along with the plot, and that would be to do things
> like tell his forces not to look at buildings and just the motorcade,
That is quite a stretch and if he was part of the plot, why would he
tell them about the grassy knoll shooter?
> and being in a sedan would certainly keep them at bay from any bullets
> flying there way, as well as an inability to watch potential shooters
I don't think anyone is safe merely by being in a sedan. His car was
well in front of the limo.
> or suspicous activity for which they should have been doing for their
> place in the motorcade. It's interesting to note, that Curry
> according to Madeleine Brown was also at the Murchison Party the night
> before the assassination.
>
Yeah, supposedly everyone was at that party.
Well, the US pretends to be an open society, so martial law security is
usually not visible.
>>>>> They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
>>>> Things are different in different countries.
>>> Yep, and I bet the SS bet's their country was after the assassination.
>> The SS always wanted tighter security and had fits when Presidents did
>> not follow their suggestions.
>>
> Well I can't see any pluses for SS's tighter security other than
> keeping men near the limo and the bubbletop. JFK certainly should
JFK did not want the tighter security. He did not want men on the limo.
He did not want the bubbletop on. It was made as a convertible for a
reason, to be SEEN by the public.
> have listened about what they were saying about 'Nut Country'. That's
JFK said it himself. He knew the danger.
> why the conspirators were following around to different cities prior,
> so they could see any breaks, to see what they could get away with.
> Of course Connally and LBJ increased the cities from one to five in
> Texas to put that aspect under suspicion as well.
>
Anyone knew how easy it would be.
Ben Holmes
Fat...@aol.com says...
Absolutlely!! Everyone must embrace the idea that the person who most benefits
from a crime should *NEVER* be accused of it! Shame on those who think that the
people who most benefited, and had the strongest motives, could possibly have
been involved in a conspiracy to end their problems!!
robc...@netscape.com
> Curry's loyalties were to Johnson, not Kennedy. He made it obvious
> when after the assassination, with a deranged Presidential assassin on
> the loose in Dallas, Curry first drove Johnson from Parkland Hospital
> to Love Field, then remained there for a photo opportunity and to
> witness the swearing-in of his hero, Johnson.
>
> While his men were gathering evidence, the Police Chief was busy
> somewhere else. While Oswald was being transferred, the Police Chief
> was doing something else.
>
> IMO, either Curry was a scumbag who was derelict in his duty as the
> Chief law enforcement officer for the city of Dallas and part of the
> conspiracy, or he was a troubled man who knew what was going on and
> tried his best to distance himself from it.
>
> In either event, he either failed or refused to lead his department at
> critical times that weekend.
There are a couple of things to consider here. Firstly, Anthony said
LBJ was just mistaken about having to be sworn in. This is not true.
The constitution makes it clear the transfer of power is automatic.
The judge who did the swearing in was "assisted" in her judgeship by
none other than LBJ. She could have pointed this fact out to him. It
was all for show. Why was LBJ and the future chairman of the
democratic caucus winking at each other? Who knows for sure. We can
only draw conclusions from it in the sense it is highly inappropriate
at that point in time. The only three people smiling and laughing in
the picture are LBJ, Thomas and Lady Bird. So much for sympathy for a
woman who just lost her husband. Secondly, the chief of police is more
of a political position than it is an investigative one. It isn't
unusual for the chief of police to be around photographic events, so
for that alone he should not be blamed. The whole police department
(minus one J.D. Tippit) was out looking for the killer(s) so there
wan't much more he could do at that time. The thing I find funny is
everyone says LBJ was in a hurry to avoid an attack on him as they
thought it was the Soviets, but he left the man carrying the
"suitcase" behind in his rush to the airport. So much for worrying
about the rest of us.
Curry did some things that would make one think he was not part of the
conspiracy, namely uttering the famous quote, "There is no evidence
putting LHO in that window with that rifle". (pardon if I didn't get
it exact, but you get the gist) I couldn't imagine anyone involved
would say that as that is the last thing LNers what to point out.
Also, it has been written in quite a few books/websites that he was
not pleased with only 4 motorcycle cops as the usual amount was 8-12.
Again, if he had knowledge would he have been upset? He would have
also done the cowardly thing LBJ did and put himself further back in
the motorcade away from the shots too.
Robert
robc...@netscape.com
> That may well be but there is no proof that Johnson treated Jackie
> badly the day of the assassination or any other time.
I guess throwing Jackie and her two kids out of the white just a few
days after her husband/their father was killed is not treating someone
badly in your book? He also fired JFK's secretary and had all JFK's
stuff removed within 48 hours of the assassination. Sounds like a
charming man.
Robert
Fat...@aol.com
Calls between LBJ and Jackie Kennedy made public
Lyndon B. Johnson and Jackie Kennedy
September 24, 1998
Web posted at: 4:10 p.m. EDT (2010 GMT)
(CNN) -- In the weeks after her husband's assassination, Jackie
Kennedy offered words of comfort to Lyndon Johnson, as he settled into
his new role as president, according to recently released tapes of
LBJ's telephone conversations.
The tapes reveal a genuinely warm relationship between the two, and
indicate that Johnson talked to others about finding a position for
John Kennedy's widow in his administration.
The recordings also show Johnson's colorful, uninhibited and often
humorous personality as he took charge of the White House and the
nation in late 1963.
CNN's Alan Duke has more on the White House conversations.
ww.cnn.com/US/9809/24/lbj.tapes/index.html - 20k - Cached
Or you might want to try this one: americanradioworks.publicradio.org/
features/prestapes/jklbj.html - 41k
And if that doesn't work you might want to try these to see how silly
this can become:
Bill Clarke
Scientist's clone former First Lady Jackie Kennedy. stores.lulu.com/
mccowan - 14k - Cached
I found out Jackie and LBJ having a romantic relationship. ... LBJ
doublecrossed Jackie who was trying to make a getaway over the rear of
the limo. server1.megagames.com/news/show.cgi?
&idtype=pc&database=671&... - 79k - Cached
Fat...@aol.com
> In article <1192631208.926462.278...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Fatm...@aol.com says...
>
> - Show quoted text -
I assure you, Ben, that all over American there are millions of people
that would benefit from killing someone. Be it killing a boss to move
up, killing a parent for an inheritance or a Lieutenant Governor
killing the Governor to move up. You will notice, Ben, that the very
vast majority of these people do not do so.
But for those that do I certainly agree with you. They need to be
investigated thoroughly. And at the end of 40 plus years if you can't
make a case it seems to me that you will never make the case. Do you
have evidence that would convict Johnson in a court of law? I don't
think so.
Bill Clarke
Ben Holmes
Fat...@aol.com says...
Fortunately, when your friends control the investigation - that's not something
that LBJ never had to worry about.
robc...@netscape.com
> > he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
> > President )
>
> Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
> in first.
RDC: Who swore him in? A judge LBJ helped to get appointed that's
who. She would have told him this was not necessary as the assumption
of power is absolut per the constitution. It was a show for the
conspirators to say "We are now in charge".
>
> > Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>
> That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
RDC: If they were so worried about Jackie why is the future speaker of
the house and the new president winking and laughing at each other?
Why is Lady Bird grimacing. Seems like Jackie's feelings were the
last thing on their minds. Look at the picture, no one else is
reacting. They are all somber except for those three.
>
> > Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for time,
> > as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
> > military transport and flown off to Washington.
>
> Huh? Kennedy's body was in Air Force One.
RDC: The assumption is it was on Air Force One, but no one knows that
for sure. Witnessess say the body arrived at Bethesda in a body bag
and a silver casket when it was placed in a gold casket with no body
bag in Dallas. RE: David Lifton, "Best Evidence".
>
> > Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
> > (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
> > body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>
> Silly speculation. Why should any bullets have stayed in the body?
>
> > It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
> > with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
>
> Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
RDC: It was a missle and it fell out of the back wound as it did not
penetrate fully. This is the wound Ford changed to the "base of the
neck" to make the fairy tale of the single bullet theory work. Even
the Secret Service and the FBI don't buy this theory. RE: Harold
Weisberg, "Never Again".
>
> > Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
> > FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>
> > Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
> > Oswald's rifle.
>
> You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
RDC: There was a whole bullet retrieved at the autopsy in Bethesda and
a Secret Service agent took it. Any number of sources cite this
happening.
robc...@netscape.com
> not that he was a conspirator.- Hide quoted text -
CJ, I read some of the same stuff as you did, but the man who tricked
Lawson was not Curry, but in fact John Conally. Lawson said he sat in
JC's office and they had a heated dispute about the route and JC picked up
the phone and called Washington. He then supposedly had a conversation
with someone in charge of the detail and said they agreed with him. When
Lawson got back to D.C. and checked up on this call he found out none was
ever received any call from JC. So JC duped him. Furthermore, the last
discussion JFK and LBJ ever had according to Evelyn Lincoln (JFK's
secretary) was on November 21st and it turned heated. What were they
discussing? According to her it was where JC would ride. LBJ didn't want
him in the president's car, but wanted instead the hated Yarborough to
ride with JFK (kill two for one?). JFK was adament and said JC would ride
with him. The last thing JFK said to Ms. Lincoln was "Johnson will not be
on the ticket in 1964". Why should he be? JFK barely won Texas with LBJ
on the ticket in 1960. How much worse could he do without him. Also, LBJ
was neighbors with Hoover and JFK wanted to get rid of him too.
Ben Holmes
>
>Gil Jesus wrote:
>> Correct CJ. Johnson wouldn't leave the hospital until he knew Kennedy
>> was dead.
>
>Kennedy was effectively dead on arrival.
>Johnson did not leave immediately after the President was declared dead
>at 1:07. And he would not leave without Jackie and Jackie would not
>leave without her husband's body.
>
>>
>> he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
>> President )
>>
>
>Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
>in first.
>
>>
>
>That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
>
>> as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
>> military transport and flown off to Washington.
>>
>
>Huh? Kennedy's body was in Air Force One.
>
>> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
>> body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>>
>
>Silly speculation. Why should any bullets have stayed in the body?
Yep... everyone *knows* that never happens... bullets *always* pass entirely
through the body.
LOL!!!
>> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
>> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
>
>Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
Go ahead, Tony... cite the dictionary that defines "missle" as brain fragments.
And tell us why a receipt was being executed for a couple of pieces of the
brain, when no-body bothered to sign for the ENTIRE brain.
>> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
>> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>>
>> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
>> Oswald's rifle.
>>
>
>You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
Of course you can... Tony's being even more of the LNT'er than usual. We *know*
the characteristics that the Western ammo had - IT DIFFERS MATERIALLY FROM OTHER
AMMO. So Tony is simply lying here... since he *does* know otherwise.
Gil Jesus
Your facts are correct with the exception of the name. It wasn't
Lawson who was fooled by Connally. It was Kennedy's own advanceman,
Jerry Bruno.
But your point is correct. The motorcade route was determined the the
site of the luncheon and Connally's fought hard, even to the extent of
using deception, to get that site.
Twelve days after Kennedy agreed to Connally's site for the luncheon,
Oswald got a job in a building owned by Johnson crony D.H Byrd. (The
TSBD)
Working for a company that had no job openings.
justm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Is Gilda really this stupid or is he having a brain fart??? Abuse any
children or elderly yet today bigot?
muc...@gmail.com
> In article <HfydnSlYMrUjb5LanZ2dnUVZ_sakn...@comcast.com>, Anthony Marsh says...
Silly.
> >> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
> >> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
>
> >Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
>
> Go ahead, Tony... cite the dictionary that defines "missle" as brain fragments.
>
> And tell us why a receipt was being executed for a couple of pieces of the
> brain, when no-body bothered to sign for the ENTIRE brain.
Not fragments *of* brain, dimwit.
> >> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
> >> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>
> >> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
> >> Oswald's rifle.
>
> >You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
>
> Of course you can... Tony's being even more of the LNT'er than usual. We *know*
> the characteristics that the Western ammo had - IT DIFFERS MATERIALLY FROM OTHER
> AMMO. So Tony is simply lying here... since he *does* know otherwise.
Seems you're doing all the lying.
muc...@gmail.com
Can you substantiate the claim that Connally, at a 10/4/63 meeting,
persuaded JFK to accept the Trade Mart as *the* luncheon site?
Citations, please.
Ben Holmes
Funny to see LNT'ers coming to the defense of a supposed CT'er...
In article <1192793957.6...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
muc...@gmail.com says...
tomnln
Birds of a Feather.
"Ben Holmes" <ad...@websitewealthcollege.com> wrote in message
news:ffags...@drn.newsguy.com...
robc...@netscape.com
> Can you substantiate the claim that Connally, at a 10/4/63 meeting,
> persuaded JFK to accept the Trade Mart as *the* luncheon site?
>
> Citations, please.
Read this:
http://:www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n1/v4n1chapter04.pdf
muc...@gmail.com
I purchased the book, but thanks. In what way do you figure it
supports Gil's claim about the 10/4/63 meeting?
tomnln
Mr. CONNALLY. Well, again Vice President Johnson, with whom I talked
frequently during that period of time, told me the President was still
interested in having four or five fundraising dinners, and I said to the
Vice President, I said, "Well, that is a mistake," and he said, "Well, that
is what he wants and you had better be prepared to do it or better be
prepared to give him a real good reason why you can't do it," and I said,
"All right, I will work out something and be back in touch with you."
I came to Washington in early October 1963, and went to see the
President. I had an appointment before I came up here to see him to talk to
him about this dinner, and at that point he still was talking about four or
five fundraising dinners in the principal cities of Texas.
At that point, I just said to him, "Mr. President, I think that is a
mistake; we want the money, yes, but we also need, it seems to me, on your
first real visit to Texas, we need to posture you in such a way that you are
going to politically benefit from it and it doesn't look like all you are
interested in is the money that you are going to get out of the State, and
frankly, if you come down and we try to put on five fundraising affairs in
the principal cities of Texas, most people down there are going to think
that all you are interested in is the financial rape of the State," and I
used those words, and he said, "well, all right what do you suggest?" and at
that point I said, "I would suggest, we have been giving a lot of thought to
it, I talked to the State chairman, I talked to the members of the State
legislature, talked to the other political leaders in the State," and I told
him that I thought we ought to have a number of nonpolitical events for him
to go to, that we ought to try to hit the major cities of Texas--Houston,
Dallas, Fort Worth, and San Antonio--and that we ought to culminate it with
a dinner in Austin.
Page 17
17
<muc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192821629.5...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
muc...@gmail.com
Fat...@aol.com
> In article <1192741581.714925.192...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bobby was still the AG and I'm guessing the AG could have investigated
anything he damn well pleased. Bobby certainly was no friend of
Johnson.
What has your investigation turned up? Something solid now, not the
usual old guessing.
Bill Clarke
Ben Holmes
Fat...@aol.com says...
Bobby didn't do any investigation, nor did he control any investigation. And
the AG isn't doing anything that the *PRESIDENT* doesn't want done.
Particularly a President who's already demonstrated his power once.
The person who had COMPLETE AND TOTAL CONTROL of what was found, or 'not' found,
was Hoover.
You can admit it, you can ignore it, or you can do whatever you want with that
bit of historical truth.
>and I'm guessing the AG could have investigated
>anything he damn well pleased. Bobby certainly was no friend of
>Johnson.
>
>What has your investigation turned up? Something solid now, not the
>usual old guessing.
Where do I begin? Why not merely start with the 45 questions? Or the "Provable
Lies of the Warren Commission?" Or perhaps you'd like to take on something that
even Bugliosi stepped away from - the 16 Smoking Guns?
Take your pick... plenty to chose from...
But you won't...
>Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
> Then he made the widow stand at his side for his swearing in. ( which
>>> he didn't have to do. As soon as JFK was dead he automatically became
>>> President )
>> Johnson and his legal aides incorrectly thought that he had to be sworn
>> in first.
>
> RDC: Who swore him in? A judge LBJ helped to get appointed that's
> who. She would have told him this was not necessary as the assumption
> of power is absolut per the constitution. It was a show for the
> conspirators to say "We are now in charge".
Sarah Hughes. I don't think she would have told the President anything.
Even top Washington officials do not understand the Constitution, like
Al Haig saying that he was next in line.
>>> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>> That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
>
> RDC: If they were so worried about Jackie why is the future speaker of
> the house and the new president winking and laughing at each other?
> Why is Lady Bird grimacing. Seems like Jackie's feelings were the
> last thing on their minds. Look at the picture, no one else is
> reacting. They are all somber except for those three.
I didn't say they loved Jackie. LBJ was concerned about his public image
and how it would look cowardly to run away and leave a woman in peril.
>>> Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for time,
>>> as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
>>> military transport and flown off to Washington.
>> Huh? Kennedy's body was in Air Force One.
>
> RDC: The assumption is it was on Air Force One, but no one knows that
> for sure. Witnessess say the body arrived at Bethesda in a body bag
> and a silver casket when it was placed in a gold casket with no body
> bag in Dallas. RE: David Lifton, "Best Evidence".
That whole theory is nonsense.
>>> Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
>>> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
>>> body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>> Silly speculation. Why should any bullets have stayed in the body?
>>
>>> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
>>> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
>> Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
>
> RDC: It was a missle and it fell out of the back wound as it did not
> penetrate fully. This is the wound Ford changed to the "base of the
> neck" to make the fairy tale of the single bullet theory work. Even
> the Secret Service and the FBI don't buy this theory. RE: Harold
> Weisberg, "Never Again".
The item recovered was removed from the brain.
>>> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
>>> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>>> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
>>> Oswald's rifle.
>> You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
>
> RDC: There was a whole bullet retrieved at the autopsy in Bethesda and
> a Secret Service agent took it. Any number of sources cite this
> happening.
>
There are rumors, but that does not make them facts. Learn the difference.
>
>
tomnln
Mr. MCKINNEY. Governor, nice to see you again. I want to thank both you and
Mrs. Connally for coming and helping us.
When was the final decision made or when did you finally get your way
that the speech would be made at the Trade Mart instead of the Women's
Building?
Mr. CONNALLY. I don't remember, Congressman, the precise date, but I
would guess it was a couple of weeks before the visit.
HOW'S THAT???
Don't you have the HSCA Volumes Either?
<muc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192825126....@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
tomnln
Bobby believed Conspiracy from Day #1.
See ARRB Report ch. 1 page 11 footnote 17.
See "Brothers" by David Talbot.
<Fat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1192831057.8...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Fat...@aol.com
> In article <1192831057.825572.282...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Questions, even 45 of them, prove nothing.
Unless one of these "provable lies of the Warren Commission" is that
LBJ didn't do it you still haven't helped your case.
Unless you can show, with solid evidence instead of bullshit, that LBJ
was holding one of these 16 smoking guns you still haven't helped your
case.
Do you have anything solid?
Bill Clarke
Fat...@aol.com
power regardless of the president and LBJ sure as hell wasn't about to
fire Bobby at this time even though he probably would have loved to do
so.
> Bobby believed Conspiracy from Day #1.
>
But Bobby didn't believe Johnson had a role in killing his brother. I
don't either.
Bill Clarke
> See ARRB Report ch. 1 page 11 footnote 17.
> See "Brothers" by David Talbot.
>
> <Fatm...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > Bill Clarke- Hide quoted text -
curtjester1
> In article <HfydnSlYMrUjb5LanZ2dnUVZ_sakn...@comcast.com>, Anthony Marsh says...
And bullets that pass through TWO bodies always come out practically
intact and the one that struck JFK in the head broke into pieces. I
am sure that makes a lot of sense for an LNT'er, eh?
CJ
> >> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
> >> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
>
> >Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
>
> Go ahead, Tony... cite the dictionary that defines "missle" as brain fragments.
>
> And tell us why a receipt was being executed for a couple of pieces of the
> brain, when no-body bothered to sign for the ENTIRE brain.
>
> >> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
> >> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>
> >> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
> >> Oswald's rifle.
>
> >You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
>
> Of course you can... Tony's being even more of the LNT'er than usual. We *know*
> the characteristics that the Western ammo had - IT DIFFERS MATERIALLY FROM OTHER
> AMMO. So Tony is simply lying here... since he *does* know otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
Ben Holmes
Fat...@aol.com says...
My crystal ball is *still* batting 100%
>Questions, even 45 of them, prove nothing.
Actually, they *DO*. They prove that LNT'ers can't answer 'em.
>Unless one of these "provable lies of the Warren Commission" is that
>LBJ didn't do it you still haven't helped your case.
I've helped it *immensely* by merely sticking with the evidence in this case.
>Unless you can show, with solid evidence instead of bullshit, that LBJ
>was holding one of these 16 smoking guns you still haven't helped your
>case.
Why do you bother to ask what the investigation has turned up if all you're
going to do is duck and run away?
You aren't going to be convincing ANYONE that you're on the right side of the
debate, when you simply refuse to debate.
>Do you have anything solid?
Of course... already cited... you refuse to answer.
>Bill Clarke
Ben Holmes
says...
It doesn't have to make sense, it merely has to be asserted by the WCR. Tony
merely illustrates yet again the silliness that you must believe in to be a
LNT'er.
robc...@netscape.com
> With JFK Dead, Bobby had NO Power.
>
> Bobby believed Conspiracy from Day #1.
>
> See ARRB Report ch. 1 page 11 footnote 17.
> See "Brothers" by David Talbot.
Up against nieghbors and buddies like LBJ and Hoover who could get
anything done. Plus the government rushed to put out a phony story so
fast who had time to react. He was grieving for his brother. When he
did finally decide to do something in 1968 they killed him.
curtjester1
> > beforehand. Curry stopped short before he got right into the Plaza
> > and just pointed at the direction of the Triple Underpass neglecting
> > to go the whole way of the motorcade route. In fact he turned left
> > before he got to Houston. The newspapers come under suspicion as well
>
> Again, so what? Maybe he was lazy. Maybe he was in a hurry to do
> something else.
>
Or maybe it was just more in line with upper echelon's that he was
privy to wanting the motorcade to go through the danger zone as they
would not wield against the Kennedy staff.
> > for not detailing on a map about the turns. They just had a straight
> > line.
>
> No, they did not all. And they listed the turns.
>
I just re-read and there was no map posted at all. Who cares if they
listed the turns? The people that they would have been concerned with,
the SS, and the WHS, would not know those streets from Pennsylvania Ave.
>
>
> >>>>> route'. If you are going to be a Pilot car then you should be like
> >>>>> everyone else in a motorcade and be in a convertible so you CAN SEE
> >>>>> what's going on. Of course if he were a conspirator which is most
> >>>> I see no reason to be in a convertible.
> >>> Sorrels said he couldn't see a thing. Reason enough?
> >> No.
>
> > It's obvious that one could see if they had a convertible. It's only
> > natural to think if Curry were privy to the plot and was complicit he
> > might be going along with the plot, and that would be to do things
> > like tell his forces not to look at buildings and just the motorcade,
>
> That is quite a stretch and if he was part of the plot, why would he
> tell them about the grassy knoll shooter?
>
His radio channel was conveniently off for a minute or so after the shots.
Of course 'afterwards' he could take a side implicating he was 'on the
trail of the assassins'. And one wouldn't want to ruin a potential book
deal, would they?
> > and being in a sedan would certainly keep them at bay from any bullets
> > flying there way, as well as an inability to watch potential shooters
>
> I don't think anyone is safe merely by being in a sedan. His car was
> well in front of the limo.
>
I am sure the cautious side would have been to prevent a bullet from
striking. They do go places when the miss a target. Ask James Tague.
And how could one be looking out for potential danger in a Sedan?
> > or suspicous activity for which they should have been doing for their
> > place in the motorcade. It's interesting to note, that Curry
> > according to Madeleine Brown was also at the Murchison Party the night
> > before the assassination.
>
> Yeah, supposedly everyone was at that party.
>
Well, the guest list grew the closer she was to the end of her life, and
after they cut off funds to her son after LBJ died.
> >>>>> likely, he is going to go on TV and do perfunctory things like warn
> >>>>> the citizens 'to be good'.
> >>>>>>> even commented that they couldn't see much in a sedan (instead of a
> >>>>>>> convertible). Of Dallas' 1175 men, on November 22, 400 of them were
> >>>>>>> assigned to Love Field, 200 to the Trade Mart, and the rest were
> >>>>>>> scattered along the parade route between the airport and Main Street.
> >>>>>>> One may ask, why Main Street?, and the following may make sense.
> >>>>>>> Secret Service advance man Lawson met with Police Chief Curry in
> >>>>>>> Dallas on November 13. Together they visited the Trade Mart, where
> >>>>>>> Curry suggested the November 22 banquet be held. Lawson forwarded a
> >>>>>>> favorable report to Washington, and the next day, November 14,
> >>>>>>> O'Donnell confirmed his choice. That same day, Curry held a meeting
> >>>>>>> with his deputies, Bachelor and Fischer, Lawson, and Sorrels to study
> >>>>>>> the problems raised by the President's visit. The meeting continued
> >>>>>>> into the next day, November 15, with the participation of members of
> >>>>>>> the local host committee. Sorrels and Lawson were preoccupied with
> >>>>>>> security problems in and around the Trade Mart, and Curry promised
> >>>>>>> massive reinforcements. That weekend, on Monday morning at the
> >>>>>>> latest, J. Edgar Hoover received a TWK (inter-office telegram) from
> >>>>>>> special agent James W. Bookout of the FBI's Dallas office. The Warren
> >>>>>>> Commission was never informed of the existence of this message. On
> >>>>>>> Monday, November 18, Lawson and Sorrels drove the motorcade route from
> >>>>>>> Love Field to the Trade Mart for the first time. Curry stressed the
> >>>>>>> fact that it could be covered in 45 minutes, and even suggested that a
> >>>>>>> short section along the Central Expressway be eliminated because of
> >>>>>>> the security risks if offered.
> >>>>>>> Let me interject here that as far as safety and potential assassins
> >>>>>>> during a motorcade nothing can be 100% ironclad for safety, there are
> >>>>>>> things that conspirators would hardly take a risk at. That would be
> >>>>>>> occupied office space or apartment buildings because these buildings
> >>>>>>> would be at a mercy of witness, most likely. On the other hand , all
> >>>>>>> unoccupied buildings , administrative buildings outside of working
> >>>>>>> hours, warehouses, building sites, all bridges, walls, and vacant lots
> >>>>>>> that would be ideal for ambush would not only be watched, but occupied
> >>>>>>> under in this case a Presidental Security Division as well as the
> >>>>>>> suboordinates in Dealey which would be Law Enforement. Continuing,
> >>>>>> You are talking about how things SHOULD have been done in an ideal
> >>>>>> world. That ignores the reality of how things actually worked then.
> >>>>> It is how things did work then, in countries like Russia and France.
> >>>> Some countries did, others did not. Remember the trips to Mexico and
> >>>> South America where mobs attacked US politicians.
> >>> I am speaking of other countries in their security, are more demanding and
> >>> careful.
> >> Of course they are.
>
> > The U.S. should be number one, and I am sure it was a huge
> > embarrassment afterwards.
>
> Well, the US pretends to be an open society, so martial law security is
> usually not visible.
>
They even have government Departments that deal with Safety. There is not
a nation on earth that deals with Safety more extensively.
> >>>>> They did these things and beyond as normal protocol.
> >>>> Things are different in different countries.
> >>> Yep, and I bet the SS bet's their country was after the assassination.
> >> The SS always wanted tighter security and had fits when Presidents did
> >> not follow their suggestions.
>
> > Well I can't see any pluses for SS's tighter security other than
> > keeping men near the limo and the bubbletop. JFK certainly should
>
> JFK did not want the tighter security. He did not want men on the limo.
> He did not want the bubbletop on. It was made as a convertible for a
> reason, to be SEEN by the public.
>
He should have been disuaded, or it would have looked good if they had
made the attempt to do so. DPD didn't.
> > have listened about what they were saying about 'Nut Country'. That's
>
> JFK said it himself. He knew the danger.
>
And he could have been influenced on how important Texas would be for
the ticket in '64, too.
CJ
robc...@netscape.com
> Sarah Hughes. I don't think she would have told the President anything.
> Even top Washington officials do not understand the Constitution, like
> Al Haig saying that he was next in line.
That is pretty scary. You're saying the men and women who take an
oath to honor and serve our constitution don't know what it says? If
so, no wonder we have major problems in this country.
>
> >>> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
> >> That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
No proof? We were talking about the picture where Thomas, LBJ and
Lady Bird are all smiling and laughing. What do you mean no proof?
> > RDC: If they were so worried about Jackie why is the future speaker of
> > the house and the new president winking and laughing at each other?
> > Why is Lady Bird grimacing. Seems like Jackie's feelings were the
> > last thing on their minds. Look at the picture, no one else is
> > reacting. They are all somber except for those three.
>
> I didn't say they loved Jackie. LBJ was concerned about his public image
> and how it would look cowardly to run away and leave a woman in peril.
What is this in reference to? My above comment is regarding the
"wink" picture. I don't understand where the running away comes in.
>
> >>> Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for time,
> >>> as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
> >>> military transport and flown off to Washington.
> >> Huh? Kennedy's body was in Air Force One.
>
> > RDC: The assumption is it was on Air Force One, but no one knows that
> > for sure. Witnessess say the body arrived at Bethesda in a body bag
> > and a silver casket when it was placed in a gold casket with no body
> > bag in Dallas. RE: David Lifton, "Best Evidence".
>
> That whole theory is nonsense.
To you. Not to most people.
>
> >>> Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
> >>> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
> >>> body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
> >> Silly speculation. Why should any bullets have stayed in the body?
>
> >>> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
> >>> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
> >> Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
>
> > RDC: It was a missle and it fell out of the back wound as it did not
> > penetrate fully. This is the wound Ford changed to the "base of the
> > neck" to make the fairy tale of the single bullet theory work. Even
> > the Secret Service and the FBI don't buy this theory. RE: Harold
> > Weisberg, "Never Again".
> The item recovered was removed from the brain.
No it wasn't, the brain wasn't allowed to be examined or weighed. It
might reveal too much.
> >>> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
> >>> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
> >>> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
> >>> Oswald's rifle.
> >> You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
>
> > RDC: There was a whole bullet retrieved at the autopsy in Bethesda and
> > a Secret Service agent took it. Any number of sources cite this
> > happening.
>
> There are rumors, but that does not make them facts. Learn the difference.
Look who's talking. Facts to you = what you believe. They are not rumors
and there are numerous sources that cite this event happening. Learn to
read more than the WCR.
Ben Holmes
robc...@netscape.com says...
Tony is one of our resident "LNT'er in CT'ers clothing". He routinely lies
about evidential matters. He's sneakier than most - so you have to go back to
the evidence itself on virtually anything he says.
For example, someone was speculating that the *reason* that the original
autopsy report was burned, and a new one created - was that Oswald had been
killed - and there would be no cross-examination in court.
Tony jumped in and said that this speculation (still perfectly valid) was wrong
because Dr. Humes had burned the paperwork more than 24 hours earlier, ON
SATURDAY MORNING.
When it was pointed out that the evidence clearly shows Dr. Humes busy at his
fireplace on Sunday, Tony merely revised his claim to Dr. Humes burning
paperwork ON TWO CONSECUTIVE DAYS... with *ZERO* evidence, no citations,
nothing.
Tony's a liar when it comes to the evidence, and you have to watch carefully
what he says, and what he doesn't say - and check EVERYTHING. (Of course,
that's a good rule for everyone here... which is why I'm careful not to assert
things I can't provide a citation for - or state that I don't know where a
citation currently exists for a particular statement)
Gil Jesus
>
> > Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>
> That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
Here's the link to the "wink" photo for Mr. Marsh and anyone
interested. Let the reader see who's smiling and who's in shock.
http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/13a0xoPwH9cxa3KrDAl1dkO-zNdDARA*p-Bbv4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l.jpg
LBJ couldn't wait to get Kennedy's belongings out of the White House.
Talk about callous.
thali...@hotmail.com
> You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
>
an almost intact bullet be found at the crime scene/or hospital - so
it can show it matched Oswald's rifle. Interesting.
thali...@hotmail.com
> On Oct 16, 3:52 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>
> > On 14 Oct, 23:14, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 14, 6:44?pm, thaliac...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > That photo of Johnson winking to a senator when he is being sworn in
> > > > as president with Jackie beside him on the plane gives me the creeps.
> > > > How insensitive. I ?am warming to the idea Johnson was behind the
> > > > assassination,
>
> > I'm a little disappointed that you're just now warming to the idea
> > that Lyin Bastard Johnson was the monster who put the whole conspiracy
> > in motion.
>
> I'm a little disappointed that two grown (I assume) men would believe
> such crap.
>
> Bill Clarke
Nope, I am a 31 year old woman. Policemen know that when they are
investigating a murder, one of the first things they consider is motive.
Johnson became heir to the greatest position of power in the world. He
would not have become President otherwise. Speculation (because I don't
have video footage of Kennedy saying it) is that Kennedy did not want
Johnson on the VP ticket in 1964. They had a very uneasy relationship.
Johnson was accepted on the ticket as a way of balancing the North/South
power divide. I am still not sure in my own mind that Johnson had prior
knowledge of the assassination, I don't think he planned it, but I think
it is entirely possible it dawned on him later that a coup d'tat had
occurred, and he said as much.
thali...@hotmail.com
> tomnln wrote:
> > Find it HERE sam>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/you_asked_for_it.htm
>
> No, it does not show JOHNSON winking.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Sam Brown" <samjbrow...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> >news:4712bef8$0$12802$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> > <thaliac...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1192379039.4...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 13, 12:19 am, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> The Secret Service was lax in it's protocol to for sure to insure a
> >> safe Presidential motorcade in Dallas but also the Law Enforement end
> >> was assigned too, as an aide to insure the safety of the trip and it's
> >> implication as well. In the case of Dallas there were about 7 who
> >> were heads of divisions as well as fifteen others who were on a
> >> special payroll in the fact that they received bonuses from the upper
> >> echelon's of Dallas to whom they did their bidding for. Curry's job
> >> was to assign and even to be a lead car in the motorcade which would
> >> have been to be on-the-look for any potential dangers. Agent Sorrells
> >> of the city and reached Dealey Plaza, Curry pointed down Main Street
> >> past the railroad overpass and said: "And afterwards there's only the
> >> freeway." But instead of turning right into Houston Street in the
> >> direction of Elm Street, as the motorcade did on November 22, Curry
> >> turned left in front of the Old Court-house, and neither Lawson nor
> >> Sorrels followed the parade point past that point, where they would
> >> have been obliged to make a 90 degree right turn to the left followed
> >> 70 yards later by a 120 degree turn to the left into Elm Street.
>
> >> After the assassination and the confusion of how they even arrived at
> >> Parkland Hospital with the pictures taken on the west side of the
> >> Triple Underpass showing that the limo with the injured passing Curry
> >> and the Pilot Car, Curry ended up at Parkland. After the President
> >> was dead and even though it was not his job, he did not choose to lead
> >> his police team investigating the major crime of the century, where he
> >> did things like oversee the search of the limousine for evidence and
> >> just tagging along with Johnson. With unknown assassin(s) on the
> >> loose in downtown Dallas, Curry should have been the busiest man in
> >> Dallas. Yet, the Chief volunteered to escort Johnson to the plane and
> >> then spent the next 90 minutes sitting with Johnson. When Johnson was
> >> sworn in aboard Air Force One, others on the plane complained
> >> bitterely that Chief Curry was trying to push his way into every
> >> photograph.
>
> >> There seems to be no rational explanation for Johnson's conduct during
> >> the same time period. As President Kennedy lay dying at Parkland
> >> Memorial Hospital, Johnson stood nearby. The Presidential had just
> >> been shot by assassins and, so far as anyone knew, the killing may
> >> have been a prelude to a nuclear military attack, a bloody coup, a
> >> wipe-out of all government leaders, or even worse. However, despite
> >> secuity staff orders that Johnson leave the area for his own and the
> >> country's safety, he flatly refused. In the midst of the crisis, and
> >> with himself as a next possible victim, he refused to leave until he
> >> made sure that Kennedy was dead. When the news of Kennedy's death was
> >> first broken to him, he still refused to leave until another staff
> >> member was sent back to reconfirm the death. When he was reassured
> >> that the President was actually dead, Johnson finally left for the
> >> airport.
>
> >> But when Johnson arrived at the airport, he did not leave as everyone
> >> advised. Bear in mind that in 1963, the nations of this earth were
> >> not living in peace and harmony, and it was a frightened America which
> >> had just lost its leader. Nevertheless, Johnson again overruled the
> >> advice of the security staff, the Secret Service, the White House
> >> staff, and even President Kennedy's brother, Bobby, that he quickly
> >> get airbore for the good of the nation. Rather, he first demanded
> >> that his luggage be taken off his plane and transferred to Kennedy's
> >> plane (both planes had the same sophisticated communications equipment
> >> and the term "Air Force One" applies to any plane on which a President
> >> flies). What Johnson wanted was to fly back to Washington on
> >> Kennedy's plane. When the transfer of baggage was finally
> >> accomplished, Johnson still refused to leave, claimng he wanted to
> >> take Kennedy's body back with him on the plane. After this delaying
> >> order was implemented, Johnson delayed his departure even more by
> >> stating that he wanted to take his Oath of Office on Texas soil. The
> >> required locating a Federal Judge and bringing her back to the plane.
> >> During all of this delay in time of crisis, so far as everyone
> >> observed, Johnson passed the time watching TV, drinking bottled water,
> >> eating soup, and twice changing his shirt to get ready for the
> >> swearing in ceremony. It was hours before Johnson finally left the
> >> city, and it was only when Oswald was captured that he left.
>
> >> Some other admissions and strange acts, are the telling of his
> >> girlfriend for over 20 years that Kennedy was going to be killed in
> >> Dallas prior to the assassination. During the motorcade at the exact
> >> time of the assassination, Democratic Senator Ralph Yarborough, LBJ's
> >> seatmate, stated LBJ has his ear up against a small walkie-talkie held
> >> over the back seat listening to the device which was "turned down real
> >> low." Johnson also refused to be questioned by anyone under oath as
> >> to his activities and even refused to supply a sworn affadavit.
> >> Before Kennedy was buried Johnson ordered the limousine (that had been
> >> shipped from Dallas to Washington) to be shipped to Detroit for
> >> complete refurbishing. The body and windows of the limousine were
> >> replaced and the interior was gutted thereby destroying all evidence
> >> of bullet marks, blood patterns, bullet directions, and occupant exact
> >> positions. As JFK lay dying at Parkland and his close friend was
> >> seriously injured, LBJ, and his wife were waiting impatiently down the
> >> hall. And, in the midst, of a perceived world crisis, Johnson's wife
> >> took out a notebook and began taking longhand notes of Johnson's
> >> actions. At 1:13 p.m. when Johnson was told that the President was
> >> dead he immediately looked at his watch and then turned to his wife
> >> and told her to "make a note of that time." On the Saturday morning
> >> after, LBJ began the day by firing President Kennedy's personal
> >> secretary. He demanded that she have her desk cleared out by 9:00
> >> a.m. He then ordered the staff to begin removing JFK's personal
> >> effects from the White House (including his rocker). Once this was
> >> initiated Johnson hung a gold framed portrait of himself in the White
> >> House. Even, less tactfully, he insisted the widow (in the midst of
> >> preparing for a funeral) move out of the White House by Monday (the
> >> day of her husband's funeral) so that he could quickly move in. These
> >> types of callous activities demonstrate the cold, ruthlessness of a
> >> man who was neither stricken with fear over a possible conspiracy, nor
> >> in any way mourning the loss of a leader. Also, within a month he
> >> used an opportunity to serve his guests with his new presidential
> >> china. Strangely, Johnson bought this china in the early fall of 1963
> >> whle a VP travelling on a political junket in Scandanavia. Of course,
> >> he never gave JFK a
>
> ...
>
> read more ยป- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry I meant the senator winking. I write these posts too late at
night.
robc...@netscape.com
> Nope, I am a 31 year old woman. Policemen know that when they are
> investigating a murder, one of the first things they consider is motive.
> Johnson became heir to the greatest position of power in the world. He
> would not have become President otherwise. Speculation (because I don't
> have video footage of Kennedy saying it) is that Kennedy did not want
> Johnson on the VP ticket in 1964. They had a very uneasy relationship.
> Johnson was accepted on the ticket as a way of balancing the North/South
> power divide. I am still not sure in my own mind that Johnson had prior
> knowledge of the assassination, I don't think he planned it, but I think
> it is entirely possible it dawned on him later that a coup d'tat had
> occurred, and he said as much.
Johnson is a tricky one, but my guess is he had foreknowledge of the
event as it has been shown Hoover had foreknowledge of the event. How
do we know this? An attempt on JFK was stopped in September 1962.
Attempts in Maimi and Chicago were averted in 1963. We have read
about the famous teletex that came into the FBI a week before the
Dallas assassination. LHO has been linked to the FBI as an employee.
Hoover and Johnson were neighbors and friends (as close as you can get
in that business) so to think he never let Johnson know is probably
inaccurate. Also, the day of the assassination there were major
articles talking about Johnson's ties to Bobby Baker/Billy Sol Estes
so not being on the 1964 ticket was the least of LBJ worries. He was
facing the end of his career and perhaps even jail time, but his
assumption of power negated all of this and he wasn't mentioned in the
case again even though the prosecution proceeded.
He obviously had a lot to gain to play along. It happened in his
state and he had ties to the man (Byrd) he owned the TSBD, the oilmen
and the rightwing groups that are key to the success of the plot. He
always denied being involved, but what do we expect him to say? He
may not have planned it but his cooperation in the coverup was
essential. Furthermore, if he didn't support the views of the people
who wanted JFK out of the way what good would come from killing JFK?
For that reason I believe LBJ had to be felt out to see if he would
play ball. Just doesn't make sense not to make sure you get the
results you want after all the trouble to remove JFK.
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 12, 8:55?pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>> That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
>
> Here's the link to the "wink" photo for Mr. Marsh and anyone
> interested. Let the reader see who's smiling and who's in shock.
>
Rather old news. Of course the Johnson's were smiling. He had just
grabbed the brass ring. Of course the widow is in shock.
> http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/13a0xoPwH9cxa3KrDAl1dkO-zNdDARA*p-Bbv4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l.jpg
>
> LBJ couldn't wait to get Kennedy's belongings out of the White House.
>
> Talk about callous.
>
Yes, and we have pointed that out before.
>
Anthony Marsh
> On Oct 19, 9:37 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Sarah Hughes. I don't think she would have told the President anything.
>> Even top Washington officials do not understand the Constitution, like
>> Al Haig saying that he was next in line.
>
> That is pretty scary. You're saying the men and women who take an
> oath to honor and serve our constitution don't know what it says? If
> so, no wonder we have major problems in this country.
Very scary. People at the top do not know our own Constitution. The very
idiots who pass laws to put the 10 Commandments in courthouses don't know
them. The Speaker of the House doesn't even know the words to the National
Anthem.
Our top politicians can not recognize the Bill of Rights and thinks it's a
Communist Manifesto.
>>>>> Just an opportunity to humiliate the widow once more.
>>>> That is a rather callous thing to say and there is no proof for that.
>
> No proof? We were talking about the picture where Thomas, LBJ and
> Lady Bird are all smiling and laughing. What do you mean no proof?
>
Smiling and laughing. Your charge was about Johnson winking. He did not.
I am not sure you can hear any laughter on the recording.
>>> RDC: If they were so worried about Jackie why is the future speaker of
>>> the house and the new president winking and laughing at each other?
>>> Why is Lady Bird grimacing. Seems like Jackie's feelings were the
>>> last thing on their minds. Look at the picture, no one else is
>>> reacting. They are all somber except for those three.
>> I didn't say they loved Jackie. LBJ was concerned about his public image
>> and how it would look cowardly to run away and leave a woman in peril.
>
> What is this in reference to? My above comment is regarding the
> "wink" picture. I don't understand where the running away comes in.
>
I am talking about his mindset.
>>>>> Then, he wouldn't take off from Love Field in order to stall for time,
>>>>> as Kennedy's body ( in a grey shipping casket) was taken aboard a
>>>>> military transport and flown off to Washington.
>>>> Huh? Kennedy's body was in Air Force One.
>>> RDC: The assumption is it was on Air Force One, but no one knows that
>>> for sure. Witnessess say the body arrived at Bethesda in a body bag
>>> and a silver casket when it was placed in a gold casket with no body
>>> bag in Dallas. RE: David Lifton, "Best Evidence".
>> That whole theory is nonsense.
>
> To you. Not to most people.
>
To most people. Take a poll and ask how many people believe Lifton's
theory. At a conference, a poll was taken of about 500 researchers in the
audience. Jerry Rose asked how many people believe that no shots were
fired from behind and Lifton was the only one to raise his hand. 1 out of
500 is NOT what I would call most. Multiply it to make the 500 equal 400
million and indeed you get many, but that is still less than 1%.
>>>>> Johnson stalled to give the medical staff at Walter Reed Hospital
>>>>> (where the body was taken) enough time to remove the bullets from the
>>>>> body before the "official autopsy" at Bethesda.
>>>> Silly speculation. Why should any bullets have stayed in the body?
>>>>> It worked. The body arrived at Bethesda BEFORE the grey Navy ambulance
>>>>> with Mrs. Kennedy did. And at least one "missile" was removed at
>>>> Not "missile." It said "missle" and it actually meant two brain fragments.
>>> RDC: It was a missle and it fell out of the back wound as it did not
>>> penetrate fully. This is the wound Ford changed to the "base of the
>>> neck" to make the fairy tale of the single bullet theory work. Even
>>> the Secret Service and the FBI don't buy this theory. RE: Harold
>>> Weisberg, "Never Again".
>
>> The item recovered was removed from the brain.
>
> No it wasn't, the brain wasn't allowed to be examined or weighed. It
> might reveal too much.
>
The bullet fragments were removed from the brain. The SS agents observed
this. The brain was removed.
Indeed, coronal sectioning would reveal the path of the bullet fragments.
There was no bullet path from the back of the head.
>>>>> Walter Reed and given to the Secret Service, who turned it over to the
>>>>> FBI at Bethesda and received a "receipt" for it.
>>>>> Where did that bullet go ? It disappeared because it did not match
>>>>> Oswald's rifle.
>>>> You can not match lead fragments to Oswald's rifle.
>>> RDC: There was a whole bullet retrieved at the autopsy in Bethesda and
>>> a Secret Service agent took it. Any number of sources cite this
>>> happening.
>> There are rumors, but that does not make them facts. Learn the difference.
>
> Look who's talking. Facts to you = what you believe. They are not rumors
> and there are numerous sources that cite this event happening. Learn to
> read more than the WCR.
>
I can present you with any number of facts and documents.
I was criticizing the WCR long before you even heard of this case.
>
Anthony Marsh
>>> Curry knowing the route was showing Lawson and Sorrels the route
>>> beforehand. Curry stopped short before he got right into the Plaza
>>> and just pointed at the direction of the Triple Underpass neglecting
>>> to go the whole way of the motorcade route. In fact he turned left
>>> before he got to Houston. The newspapers come under suspicion as well
>> Again, so what? Maybe he was lazy. Maybe he was in a hurry to do
>> something else.
>>
>
> Or maybe it was just more in line with upper echelon's that he was
> privy to wanting the motorcade to go through the danger zone as they
> would not wield against the Kennedy staff.
>
That's a stretch, to make Curry part of the conspiracy knowing that
shooters would be waiting on Elm Street. Why would that make him choose
not to make the turn?
>>> for not detailing on a map about the turns. They just had a straight
>>> line.
>> No, they did not all. And they listed the turns.
>>
>
> I just re-read and there was no map posted at all. Who cares if they
> listed the turns? The people that they would have been concerned with,
> the SS, and the WHS, would not know those streets from Pennsylvania Ave.
>
No map posted? I posted a link to it. Tell me you don't know how to
click on a link.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dthmap.gif
Sorrels was the Dallas agent. He knew those streets well.
Ben Holmes
Why not play a game... raise your hand if you know of any significant facts
developed by the work of David Lifton... Okay... thankyou, you may put them
down...
Now, raise your hand if you know of any significant facts developed by the work
of Tony Marsh... Come on, don't be shy...
Come on... significant facts developed by Tony Marsh the researcher...
Anyone...
Anyone...
Tony, you can put your hand down...
And yet, when repeatedly asked for any "fact" or "document" that would persuade
*ANYONE* to assert that Dr. Humes was burning anything on Saturday morning, you
remain quite silent. Why is that, Tony?
>I was criticizing the WCR long before you even heard of this case.
And unfortunately, lying about the evidence...
curtjester1
> curtjester1 wrote:
> >>> Curry knowing the route was showing Lawson and Sorrels the route
> >>> beforehand. Curry stopped short before he got right into the Plaza
> >>> and just pointed at the direction of the Triple Underpass neglecting
> >>> to go the whole way of the motorcade route. In fact he turned left
> >>> before he got to Houston. The newspapers come under suspicion as well
> >> Again, so what? Maybe he was lazy. Maybe he was in a hurry to do
> >> something else.
>
> > Or maybe it was just more in line with upper echelon's that he was
> > privy to wanting the motorcade to go through the danger zone as they
> > would not wield against the Kennedy staff.
>
> That's a stretch, to make Curry part of the conspiracy knowing that
> shooters would be waiting on Elm Street. Why would that make him choose
> not to make the turn?
>
of Dealey. It should light up a flag when he goes all the way on the
route, and doesn't hit the most dangerous part.
> >>> for not detailing on a map about the turns. They just had a straight
> >>> line.
> >> No, they did not all. And they listed the turns.
>
> > I just re-read and there was no map posted at all. Who cares if they
> > listed the turns? The people that they would have been concerned with,
> > the SS, and the WHS, would not know those streets from Pennsylvania Ave.
>
> No map posted? I posted a link to it. Tell me you don't know how to
> click on a link.
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dthmap.gif
>
This is just a vague map, which doesn't show Dealey.
> Sorrels was the Dallas agent. He knew those streets well.
>
Maybe he did know them well, but it's not going to click if doesn't
see it visibly or see it in the paper. There isn't a precedent for
Presidential motorcades that they could be drawing off of.
CJ
robc...@netscape.com
> Very scary. People at the top do not know our own Constitution. The very
> idiots who pass laws to put the 10 Commandments in courthouses don't know
> them. The Speaker of the House doesn't even know the words to the National
> Anthem.
>
> Our top politicians can not recognize the Bill of Rights and thinks it's a
> Communist Manifesto.
Very scary. Communism is not the way many of the lean though (Facism).
> > No proof? We were talking about the picture where Thomas, LBJ and
> > Lady Bird are all smiling and laughing. What do you mean no proof?
>
> Smiling and laughing. Your charge was about Johnson winking. He did not.
> I am not sure you can hear any laughter on the recording.
I never said Johnson was winking as you can't see his face. Thomas is
winking. Probably not.
> > What is this in reference to? My above comment is regarding the
> > "wink" picture. I don't understand where the running away comes in.
>
> I am talking about his mindset.
> > To you. Not to most people.
>
> To most people. Take a poll and ask how many people believe Lifton's
> theory. At a conference, a poll was taken of about 500 researchers in the
> audience. Jerry Rose asked how many people believe that no shots were
> fired from behind and Lifton was the only one to raise his hand. 1 out of
> 500 is NOT what I would call most. Multiply it to make the 500 equal 400
> million and indeed you get many, but that is still less than 1%.
I agree with some of the things Lifton says about medical evidence. I am
not sold on the body switching stuff, but your above "poll" is about where
shots came from. Most people think medical evidence when the name Lifton
is mentioned, not where shots originated from. Polls are tricky in the
normal sense as you have to look at who conducts them and what type of
questions are asked.
> >> The item recovered was removed from the brain.
>
> > No it wasn't, the brain wasn't allowed to be examined or weighed. It
> > might reveal too much.
>
> The bullet fragments were removed from the brain. The SS agents observed
> this. The brain was removed.
Fragments were removed, but there is no way to know if the ones they
claimed to have removed were in fact the same ones. There was so much
switching of evidence nothing is for sure. This case made the O.J. one
look like the best conducted case in the world. Why such poor "chain of
evidence" handling in all aspects of the case? According to another post
they had a bullet ready at Parkland to say came from JFK. It seems they
were ready for any option.