Photography In Parking Lot Behind Grassy Knoll
curtj...@webtv.net
some filmings of the Major Media from Chapter 9.
It was said Sandy Sanderson, Jim Craven, and Jim Underwood of CBS had
some footages. Tom Craven's supposedly showed the assassin's getaway
car driving from the parking lot behind the GK one minute after the
shooting. Sandy Sanderson's filming was about the arrest of one of the
assassin's 30 minutes after the shooting in front of the TSBD.
A Johnny Martin film supposedly showed 3 assassins and cohorts running
into the parking lot after firing two shots.
James Darnell of NBC was said to have some very telling footage behind
the GK after the shooting.
Anybody know of these or heard anymore from this film 'happenings'?
CJ
Martin Shackelford
networks, ABC and NBC have both allowed broadcast of unedited early
footage from November 22, while CBS has only allowed edited programs, and
not allowed archival access to other footage shown that day. One
researcher has been seeking access for quite some time. The Martin film is
included in the DCA film, which can be found on Robert Groden's video and
DVD "The Assassination Films." The Darnell footage is seldom seen, but
Richard Trask has published some stills from it.
Martin
Grizzlie Antagonist
Oh, the photographs are conclusive on that point.
Not only do they show the vehicle leaving the parking lot immediately
after the shooting, but the personalized license plate actually reads,
"GETWY CAR".
But there's no consensus about the writing on the T-shirt being worn by
the front seat passenger. Some photo-optic experts insist that it reads,
"We went to Dallas and all we got for a trophy was a lousy president's
head", but others are not so certain.
curtj...@webtv.net
Yes, and it would have been nice if they would have cleaned their shoes
up and not left such a mess. And good thing they lived back then,
because the Anti-Smoking Coalition would have been breathing down their
necks.
curtj...@webtv.net
Todd W. Vaughan
Martin,
There was no ABC National cameramen in the motorcade, and little if any
of ABC's National broadcast was taped. Much of the broadcast of local
Dallas ABC affiliate WFAA is available.
I have the CBS National broadcast from 12:00 noon that day through 8:00
pm that night, so it is far from unavailable. Tom Craven was the CBS
National cameramen in the motorcade and his footage is in that
broadcast. It does not show what Sprague described.
The NBC National broadcast is commonly available. David Wiegman was the
NBC National cameraman in the motorcade and his film appears in the NBC
broadcast in it's entirety.
I've seen the Darnell film. It also does not show what Sprague
described.
Likewise the Sanderson and Martin films do not show what Sprague
described.
Dick Sprague did much good early work in the photographic evidence. He
was a friend of mine and helped my understanding of the films and
photograph out a great deal. Unfortunately often what he describes as
appearing in a film or photograph does not pan out.
Todd
Todd W. Vaughan
Todd W. Vaughan
There was no ABC National cameramen in the motorcade, and little if any
of ABC's National broadcast was taped. Much of the broadcast of local
Dallas ABC affiliate WFAA is available.
I have the CBS National broadcast from 12:00 noon that day through 8:00
pm that night on tape, so it is far from unavailable. Tom Craven was
the CBS National cameramen in the motorcade and his footage is in that
broadcast. It does not show what Sprague described.
The NBC National broadcast is commonly available. David Wiegman was the
NBC National cameraman in the motorcade and his film appears in the NBC
broadcast in it's entirety.
I've seen the Darnell film. It also does not show what Sprague
described.
Likewise the Sanderson and Martin films do not show what Sprague
described.
Dick Sprague did much good early work in the photographic evidence. He
was a friend of mine and helped my understanding of the films and
photograph out a great deal. Unfortunately often what he describes of a
conspiratorial nature as appearing in a film or photograph does not
seem pan out.
Todd
Anthony Marsh
> CBS has been very closed about making its footage available. Of the
> three networks, ABC and NBC have both allowed broadcast of unedited
> early footage from November 22, while CBS has only allowed edited
> programs, and not allowed archival access to other footage shown that
> day. One researcher has been seeking access for quite some time. The
> Martin film is included in the DCA film, which can be found on Robert
> Groden's video and DVD "The Assassination Films." The Darnell footage is
> seldom seen, but Richard Trask has published some stills from it.
>
One should be able to see all of it at the JFK Library by arrangement.
Todd W. Vaughan
>One should be able to see all of it at the JFK Library by arrangement.<
According to "The Assassination of John F. Kennedy:An Annotated Film, Tv,
and Videography, 1963-1992", by Anthony Ferwin, page 120, the JFK Library
has the largest collection of film and TV material on John F. Kennedy, but
little of it relates to the assassination.
Todd
Todd W. Vaughan
seems to have been edited. The Jay Skaggs photo of Camera Car 1 turning
onto Houston Street from Main Street seems to show Craven filming a scene
on Houston Street that we dont don't see, and none of what should be
Craven footage of the Newmans is seen either.
mikesm...@hotmail.com
Peter Fokes
<mikesm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Why are stupid posts allowed to be posted???
We reject posts that include personal attacks on other posters, or
posts that are wildly off-topic.
We don't make adjudication judgement calls based on our own views of
the stupidity or intelligence of each post.
PF
Martin Shackelford
for some years, but CBS has been uncooperative.
Martin
Anthony Marsh
> As I mentioned, a researcher has been trying to view that full footage
> for some years, but CBS has been uncooperative.
>
> Martin
>
Has that researcher tried the Kennedy Library?
mikesm...@hotmail.com
Martin Shackelford
Martin
aeffects
Help us out here, Todd
you needed Sprague to help you out in YOUR understanding of the JFK
related Dealey Plaza films. He describes what HE sees in the same
film[s] - photo[s]. Based on YOUR knowledge of what he, Sprague has
told you, YOU determine Sprague wrong about HIS interpretation of
same! That sum it up?
Here we are lurkers -- photo experts helping the little guy out, the
little guy that professes no knowledge/understanding of the
film/photos, then the little guy with NO knowledge of photo
interpretation tells the world, the experts don't know what they're
talking about.... Sounds like Lone Neuter logic to me...
You got a opinion, fine...
Arrogance beyond belief.
> Todd
curtj...@webtv.net
Well, thanks for writing what I was sorta thinking there, Aff.
It was like RS or TV, RS or TV, RS or TV....hmmm...RS! I am sure many
who devoted themselves to the case in earlier years, have fallen into
other areas out of sheer frustration of the stonewalling of the system
(or even by threatus operandi), but has RS died, or is he still able to
be reached?
CJ
aeffects
I've got my hands full dealing with the Zapruder film at the moment...
David Healy
Todd W. Vaughan
What Sprague helped me with was photographer names and locations, both
in Dealey Plaza and within the motorcade. I relied on him very little,
if at all, for interpretation of the photos.
As I said, Dick did much good early work in the photographic evidence.
In the period 1966-1969 or so he located and made available many
previously unknown and unseen photographs and perhaps a few films. His
listing of photographs and photographers, while today known to not be
entirely accurate, is still a very useful resource, one I reference
often.
However, as one of his photographic timing charts reveals (Computers
and Automation, May 1970), he did not fully understand the timing of
the some of the photographs and films in relation to the events in
Dealey plaza, and in relation to each other. As a result, some of his
interpretations about seeing "gunmen" on the knoll "running away" were
in error (I speak here about primarily the Marin film). What Dick
thought were gunmen running away from the knoll are actually spectators
on the knoll running toward the knoll railroad yards.
I wonder, David, have you ever seen and examined the relevant portion
of the Martin film? Have you seen the complete Darnell film? Have you
seen the Underwood/Sanderson film (they shared the same camera).
I doubt it, on all counts. I bet you couldn't even identify a Darnel or
Underwood/Sanderson film sequence.
"My opinion"? Having known him, Dick Sprague would have had a good
laugh at your "work" on the Zapruder film.
"Arrogance beyond belief?"
Not quite. But I'd put my knowledge of the photographic record in this
case up against yours any day of the week.
Todd
Todd W. Vaughan
See my reply to Healy.
Dick Sprague died some years ago in the mid to late 1990's.
His collection of photographs, which I've examined, is part of the JFK
collection at Archives II in College Park.
Todd
Todd W. Vaughan
>Don't know if Sprague is still alive or not, Curt...
>I've got my hands full dealing with the Zapruder film at the moment...
How silly. What has your having your "hands full dealing with the
Zapruder film" got to do with whether or not you know if Dick Sprague
is alive or not?
Answer is, it doesn't.
But it lets you toot your own horn like you're doing some "real serious
work".
What a joke.
Todd
curtj...@webtv.net
While I am in really no position to impute a wrong motive, I do wonder why
someone would confuse people going up the GK when that was already a
common scene with other photography? It seems too that their would be a
scaling of height to go toward the fence area up the GK, and behind the GK
is very flat, and basically is just a parking lot, even just beyond the
fence area.
I too wonder if this photography is/was in the category of being 'hidden',
and what might their motive(s) be? Also, what kind of chain of command
was being instilled or available from the early time of these footages
until now? IOW, could these films have been tampered with?
Also, why would the FBI or even well-positioned 'secret service agents,
take individual films right after the assassination, and leave the
network's alone so-to-speak?
CJ
aeffects
roflmfao
aeffects
what the hell is the matter with you lone neuters?
Well thank the lord you showed up and straightened good ole Dick
Sprague out.
I'm sure the photographic record would of dematerialized without your
considered tutelage....
yeah, right! roflmfao!
Todd W. Vaughan
>testy -- little guy, want to play in the bigs?
>roflmfao
More non-repsonibe gibberish from the big Zaprduer researcher.
You're a waste of skin.
Todd
Todd W. Vaughan
used condom -- well, I certainly hope your posting here isn't taking
you away from your important Zapruder research that your hands are so
"full of" (likely that your hands are full of something else).
You call me "toad", repeatedly, and then you whine like a little 5 year
old girl when I misspell your name? Get some balls, asshole.
I never said I straightened Dick Sprague out, those are your words.
"dematerialized"? Oh, phasers on stun Captain Kirk.
Once again, a Healie post without substance, what else is new?.
You're a joke.
Todd
Todd W. Vaughan
>While I am in really no position to impute a wrong motive, I do wonder why
>someone would confuse people going up the GK when that was already a
>common scene with other photography? <
According to his Timing chart, Dick thought the Martin film sequence he
was looking at was taken as the limousine was passing under the underpass,
some 8 seconds or so after the head shot. The sequcne was actually takne
40-50 seconds after the headshot.
>It seems too that their would be a
>scaling of height to go toward the fence area up the GK, and behind the GK
>is very flat, and basically is just a parking lot, even just beyond the
>fence area.<
I'm not sure what you mean here.
>I too wonder if this photography is/was in the category of being 'hidden',
>and what might their motive(s) be?<
Nope, the Martin film was available commercially in Dallas in 1964 as
part of the DCA film.
>Also, what kind of chain of command was being instilled or available from the early time of these footages
>until now? IOW, could these films have been tampered with?<
Dick was looking at the DCA version of the Martin film when he made his
observations.
>Also, why would the FBI or even well-positioned 'secret service agents,
>take individual films right after the assassination, and leave the
>network's alone so-to-speak?
What FBI agent of SS agent took anyones film right after the
assassination?
Todd
Ben Holmes
Vaughan says...
I have this theory that when certain LNT'ers get excited, they tend to type too
fast. This theory came about when I noticed that far too often, people who
normally produce well-written and spelled sentences, will occasionally produce
sheer nonsense. An example would be: "More non-repsonibe gibberish from the big
Zaprduer researcher."
Of course, if anyone else has a different theory that explains this interesting
bit of trivia - feel free to offer it.
Meanwhile, Toddy; what's so exciting about David putting you in your place?
Ben Holmes
Vaughan says...
>
Hey Toddy!
For someone who claims that they'll "put my knowledge of the photographic record
in this case up against yours any day of the week.", you seem strangely
reluctant to admit the facts.
I'm sure you're quite aware of eyewitnesses who stated that their films and/or
camera were taken right after the assassination. Just as you are certainly
aware of the eyewitness accounts of FBI intimidation.
But don't try to imply that it never happened. Lurkers aren't stupid.
Todd W. Vaughan
>I have this theory that when certain LNT'ers get excited, they tend to type too
>fast. This theory came about when I noticed that far too often, people who
>normally produce well-written and spelled sentences, will occasionally produce
>sheer nonsense. An example would be: "More non-repsonibe gibberish from the big
>Zaprduer researcher."
>Of course, if anyone else has a different theory that explains this interesting
>bit of trivia - feel free to offer it.
Do you have any other theories?
I have this theory that it might just be from rapid hunting and pecking
at 12:30 AM after a 14 hour day.
Your thoughts, o-wise one?
Todd
Todd W. Vaughan
>Hey Toddy!
>For someone who claims that they'll "put my knowledge of the photographic record
>in this case up against yours any day of the week.", you seem strangely
>reluctant to admit the facts.
>I'm sure you're quite aware of eyewitnesses who stated that their films and/or
>camera were taken right after the assassination. Just as you are certainly
>aware of the eyewitness accounts of FBI intimidation.
>But don't try to imply that it never happened. Lurkers aren't stupid.
Do you mean Beverly Oliver?
Todd
Anastase Vonsiatsky
Dump the Autopsy Photos and all that
Dealey Plaza garbage and focus on
plotters, plots, plotting, motives, conversations
and REALLY well positioned and knowledgeable
people.
What do these folks all agree upon?
1) Jack Ruby
2) Dick Condon
3) Rep Henry Gonzalez
4) Dick Russell's informant
5) Bill Turner
6) Mae Brussell
7) Roy Emory Hargraves
...they all figured it out. Why not you?
If you accept these folks as well positioned
authorities then you can reach only one conclusion...
Especially because they all agree using differing
perspectives, different methods and means,
and varying approaches and views to a Kill.
Ben Holmes
Vaughan says...
>
You *do* understand the plural form, don't you, Toddy?
One of several, Toddy... just one of several. Rather silly of you to deny this,
isn't it?
For if you *are* as familiar with the photographic evidence as you are
attempting to assert, you surely know better.
So why lie about it?
Ben Holmes
Vaughan says...
>
My! You *are* a nutcase, aren't you? Getting too hung up on trying to argue
the unwinnable... must be frustrating... I have better things to do...
tomnln
todd does NOT accept that from tomnln.
But, it lets toddy Off the hook?
I suppose that's a Good way for todd to avoid explaining Officer Baker's
FOUR (4) accounts of his
lunchroon encounter with Oswald.
Showing that Baker Lied a Minimum of 3 times.
"Todd W. Vaughan" <twvaug...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141405997....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Anastase Vonsiatsky
curtj...@webtv.net
Is it your contention that Richard Case Nagell is Dick Russell's
informant?
CJ
Ben Holmes
Presumably, Toddy has better things to do than to confront false implications
that he bandies about.