Groom Lake photographs from 06/30/2008
mi...@sushi.com
got drizzled on once at night and twice during the morning of 6/30. To
shoot the base, I had to wait for a break in the clouds to get any
illumination. What light I had was through a cloud and thus much
reduced in intensity. These photographs were taken with a shutter
speed of 1/20th, when normally I use 1/60th.
So much for the griping. This is a photograph of a Janet. It is not on
the larger panorama since the frame was one of the blurry ones. [I
generally shot each scene 6 times. Due to what proved to be a very
brief time I had for shooting, I only shot each frame 4 times. The
goal here obviously is to pick the best (sharpest generally) image.]
www.lazygranch.com/images/a51pan/june2008/janet.jpg
This images is a panorama of most of the base.
www.lazygranch.com/images/a51pan/june2008/a51pano06302008.jp2
You will need
www.irfanview.com/
to view a jp2 (jpeg2000) file. I can see two choppers on the jolly
pad, with one being the old HH-60, and one I believe is a newer HH-65.
There have not been any HH-65 spottings around the range, so who
knows. The new hanger is compete, and unfortunately not illuminated
very well.
Older Groom Lake panoramas can be found at
www.lazygranch.com/a51pan.htm
Hiram
R. LaCasse
Good stuff, but unfortunately all the real stuff is 6 stories
underground............time to rent an IR Camera for that one....
All these places are underground, in a mountain, or some very secure
location.....it all really sux, and my remote spy techniques are limited to
physical travel, which is too far for me at the moment....
good luck too
Lumpy
> unfortunately all the real stuff is 6 stories
> underground...
Part of the tunnel comes out at the post office
near me. Come on by this weekend. We can break
in and hike to Groom. Bring beer.
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
mi...@sushi.com
I didn't know IR can see through dirt!
Hiram
>
> I didn't know IR can see through dirt!
Its special IR
Hiram
> R. LaCasse wrote:
> > unfortunately all the real stuff is 6 stories
> > underground...
>
> Part of the tunnel comes out at the post office
> near me.
Is that like every post office - or just the one near you?
mi...@sushi.com
> > I didn't know IR can see through dirt!
>
> Its special IR
IR does not see through dirt. Now it is possible to see temperature
differences on the surface with IR indicating a particular piece of
dirt has been disturbed. IR is also useful in detecting camouflaged
structures since camouflage does not have the "Wood" effect.
There is much confusion regarding IR, well on the internet. ;-) This
is a case where reading books and technical papers will serve you
better than what you read on the net. For instance, there are no
shortage of posts on the net that indicates that IR can see in the
dark. [Well, yeah, if you have an IR illuminator.] Then there is the
confusion between night vision (light amplification) and IR. For
instance, you can use an IR illuminator with night vision, but if you
need an illuminator, you are not very stealthy.
I have an IR filter I got from a military vehicle (flea market
purchase, not midnight auto supply). I have placed it over a spotlight
and made a wicked IR illumantor. I pointed it at the camo dudes and
they didn't indicate anything unusual, so I don't think they use much
in the way of night vision.
Lumpy
> I have an IR filter I got from a military vehicle (flea market
> purchase, not midnight auto supply). I have placed it over a spotlight
> and made a wicked IR illumantor. I pointed it at the camo dudes and
> they didn't indicate anything unusual, so I don't think they use much
> in the way of night vision.
I've seen plenty of photos (yours?) of cammo dudes
sitting near "wal mart" at night. Photos are
illuminated by IR(?) or night amp vision(?).
If they're sitting there in the dark, surely
they're watching the target with something
other than the naked eye.
Simple NV (amplification) is pretty common. Police agencies
nearly everywhere have them. Civilian hunters
have them. I would sure guess that cammos have
at least the simple versions if not something
more elaborate like tripod mounted, high power
binocular.
Yet if you've lit them up with IR and they
haven't hid, that sure suggests they aren't
IR, at that particular time at least.
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
mi...@sushi.com
There are tricks regarding nighttime photography. Often people just
shoot at dusk and call it night. This works really well if the subject
is some facility that has automatic lighting. That is, the light make
the image appear at night, yet there is still enough light to do
photography on a tripod.
This is the shot I did with gen 2 Soviet era NV and image stacking:
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/fg/camoave.jpg
I know you can do better with Kodak Portra BW 400, i.e. that B&W film
you develop using color chemistry. This is one I shot from the power
line overlook using moonlight:
http://www.lazygranch.com/images/misc/plo3.jpg
I've use Macophot extended red film and it does get through long
distance haze for telescope photos. However, the problem is negative
film is low contrast as compared to slide film, and the haze reduces
contrast. It seemed to be a wash to me, and I no longer have a 2 hour
turn B&W lab.
I've found that using UV filtering (real UV filtering, not those phony
UV filters you get from Tiffen) helps a lot. I've have two of the
Anderson long pass filters for telescope use. I combine one with a
KR1.5 and the color looks reasonable for Tikaboo shots.
If have have a UV source and anything that reacts to UV, you can show
how poorly the standard camera filters reject UV. I did this both with
uranium glass and a green oscilloscope screen, using a 380nm UV
flashlight. Incidentally, those UV flashlights are fun in the desert
if you want to find scorpions. They glow green under UV. I'm amazed at
how many there are on the desert floor. Those people that insist on
wearing flip-flops or sandals ought to think twice!
The trick with the Portra BW 400 is to pretend the iso is 50. The film
is extremely low contrast and won't bloom much from the specular light
sources.
Probably you could get the same results with a digital camera, but you
would have to stack images since CCDs tend to bloom.
Lumpy
> Incidentally, those UV flashlights are fun in the desert
> if you want to find scorpions. They glow green under UV. I'm amazed at
> how many there are on the desert floor. Those people that insist on
> wearing flip-flops or sandals ought to think twice!
They nest in our palm trees in the cut pieces of
palm frond trimmings below the main stalks.
Cammo Dude Lumpy
krackula
coming from anyone else I'd believe that last paragraph but coming
from you , I'd be more inclined to believe you are " phishing " ! ha
hhah aha h ah or maybe your misdirection is intentional , dunno.
anyway ..........
that Korea - Viet Nam era filter over the spotlight technology
went out with button down shoes. even in the early 80s " everyone "
went to the Pelco monochrome low freq IR ( FLIR ) camera systems
and ( obviously ) upgraded to better stuff as it was developed. that
stuff included the ultra high sensitivity / resolution sensors , 1000
: 1 zoom electronic systems , ultra miniaturization technology and
up to the new digital age pulse equipment. ALL of your favorite
camera placements have been the newer classified digital Pelco
equipment for quite a long while.
better think bigger for those yagis and pod dishes ( you know
where ) and add in the wifi ( what used to be called MDT )
hump mounted ( and handhelds as well ) displays and you'll know why
the cammo dudes don't use ( or need ) their FLIR handhelds they keep
in the glove compartments.
http://www.usborderpatrol.com/Border_Patrol1604_2.htm
1st and 2nd pictures.
just take a look at the new systems they are installing on the Arizona
border and jack up those 10X and you'll be ( barely ) in the
ballpark. think " they " don't put their " very best stuff " in
the most important places , think again. grab a look inside a cammo
dude's truck and ask yourself what those joysticks on the console
display are used for. ie:
http://www.usborderpatrol.com/Border_Patrol1604_2.htm
and
read page 8 of this and you are barely getting warm
http://www.usborderpatrol.com/Border_Patrol1604.htm
speaking of pointing " things " at the cammo dudes. I've personally
discovered that if you hit them with a 750 milliwatt ( yes 3/4 of a
watt ) 930 n.m. I.R. laser night vision illuminator ( one of those
$975 , 3 c-cell flashlight looking jobbies ) like
http://www.unitedvisionsolutions.com/prod02.htm
it will bring a " chopper " in a hurry. they buzz you and choke you
with dust and blind you with their spotlight , roust you from trucks
and check your I.D. etc. , even if you are on public land.
interestingly they don't react at all to 5 - 30 m.w. lasers . this
suggesting an additional level of sophistication in their equipment
that you might not expect. theoretically, it would be fairly easy to
wipe out any of their FLIR cameras with a 5 jule , hand held ,
pulse yag laser ( made from old surplus tank sight parts found
commonly on ebay ) so you can understand why they are touchy about
high energy laser beams in their areas. and jam their new pulse
technology camera system to boot ?
even a 300 m.w. laser illuminator will instantly pop a dark colored
balloon across a 15' room. a 3/4 watt illuminator will burn paint at
the same distance. hitting someone in the eyes with even the 300 m.w.
illuminator could cause instant eye damage.
krackula
mi...@sushi.com
> On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 10:06:39 -0700, krackula <krack...@i.am> wrote:
I didn't say the base was using this cheap ass illuminator. Rather, I
was using this cheap ass illuminator.
Lumpy
Bunch of stuff, thanks for the links to IR tech.
And just where the hell have you been
lately, you big woozely boozely?
There's a party goin' on. If you insist on
popping in and out, then who are we
supposed to dance with?
BTW 40m has been boppin lately,
if you ever get down there.
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
mi...@sushi.com
http://www.bhigear.com/downloads/BHI-GSA-Catalog-1_8_7-web.pdf
They sell an IR illuminator similar to what I described, though the
lamp is a CCFL. Page 24. I'm baffled why this uses a CCFL.
krackula
yya ahhah ah ah .. sorry .......
krackula
welp , I've been busy and out and about a lot lately. hard to get time
to get on the computer.
I've got a question for Miso and / or the aircraft boyz here . I
saw a VERY large cargo looking plane government /
military plane ( with no markings ) taking off from an airstrip
with two F-16 style jets , one just off each wingtip of the big
sucker as it took off and they stayed there as it flew off into the
distance. interestingly the cargo looking plane seemed to
lumber and strain a great deal when taking off as well. I've seen
F-16 escorts before but these looked nearly glued to the big
aircraft , unusually close to the wings of the big plane almost
smothering it. the big plane seemed to me to be shaped more like a
C-17 rather than one of those Airbus A400m but not exactly like
either ( if that helps any ) . sorry I don't know more about the
models of those aircraft. the planes took off using an unusual
circular / spiral route WAY different than you see from other
aircraft using that strip as well.
at first I thought it might have been an escorted VIP flight but the
big aircraft was more C-17 cargo looking then a strict passenger
AF1 type of aircraft .. and if it was one of " those " VIP flights ,
they are almost always preceeded ( several hours or more ) by a flock
of 2 - 4 choppers and there were NO choppers that I saw associated
with this flight. Interestingly , I don't know when it arrived ......
might have been in a " hanger " for a while or possibly came late in
the night ....... you'd think the enormous noise might have awaked
someone tho.
not saying it hasn't happened before , but I've never noticed this
type of escorted liftoff from that airstrip previously.
obviously you could only guess at what was going on but wondered what
your thoughts might be on this event ?
tia
Lumpy
> ...saw a VERY large cargo looking plane government /
> military plane ( with no markings ) taking off from an airstrip
> with two F-16 style jets , one just off each wingtip of the big
> sucker as it took off and they stayed there as it flew off into the
> distance. interestingly the cargo looking plane seemed to
> lumber and strain a great deal when taking off as well...
Which airport, Krak?
Date and times?
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
krackula
well dang nab it ole Lumpy .......... I've got two people standing
here reading your post laughing their butts off saying " NOW what
you gonna go ? " h ah h ah ah ha ha ha haa and truthfully I
don't know .
I was kinda hoping someone would just say " when two f-16s shadow
a plane like that it 's to shield it if it's fired on . maybe
because the big sucker doesn't have any defense systems and the f-16s
are loaded with them ( sams ? ) ......... or " I've seen stuff like
that when the big plane was carrying this or that ". or maybe
thats standard procedures for " ............. " transportation .
dunno , just kinda hoped someone had some thoughts on the situation.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there would be " nothing " in
the flight data base for this event ......... just a guess of course
but I'd strongly suspect that to be the case under the
circumstances.
also and not related to the above .....
got a couple of emails asking some interesting questions about recent
posts I've made and wanting me to elaborate on a specific area but
er ..... ah .........
for them , all I've got left to say about any of that stuff
( soon as I get that size 12 out of my a$$ ) is this ........
Federal Register !!! anyone that wants to be seriously " in the
know " should / must have copies ( all of them ) of the Federal
Register tucked under their pillows. should be a bigger pile of
them than newspapers at your house .........
Lumpy
> I was kinda hoping someone would just say " when two f-16s shadow
> a plane like that it 's to shield it if it's fired on . maybe
> because the big sucker doesn't have any defense systems and the f-16s
> are loaded with them ( sams ? ) ......... or " I've seen stuff like
> that when the big plane was carrying this or that ". or maybe
> thats standard procedures for " ............. " transportation .
> dunno , just kinda hoped someone had some thoughts on the situation.
>
> I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there would be " nothing " in
> the flight data base for this event ......... just a guess of course
> but I'd strongly suspect that to be the case under the
> circumstances.
Sheesh. You saw three freakin airplanes.
You're not holding the secret to the illuminati.
OK. The C-17 is piloted by John Travolta. It carries
the alien souls who haven't yet re-inhabited the
earthlings. It's owned by the Dianetic church.
The F-16s are there to fight off the anti-Hubbardites.
They fly a corkscrew pattern on leaving your secret
airport and eventually head south into the Goldwater
bombing range where they fly into an underground
bunker complex that is guarded by Native Indian
holy men who are on the payroll of the republicans.
The paint scheme and logos on the planes are actually
holograms. They can change them at any time to appear
US Military, IRAN Republican Guard, N Korea Air Force
or Virgin Records.
I hear helo's now.
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
mi...@sushi.com
My understanding of circling over the airport for take-off and landing
is to keep the plane over a "secure" zone. Secure zone as opposed to
flying straight over a grove of palm trees with bad guys equipped with
Strellas. If you watch fighters land at Nellis, they will sometimes do
a little bit of circling to lose altitude before landing, as opposed
to what you see at your local commercial airport. I know they show the
spiral landing when Travis has an open house. When Hillary was on her
infamous Bosnian landing, they did the spiral landing to avoid sniper
fire outside the airport. Of course, she told the story a little
differently. ;-) There is probably an official term for such a
landing. Maybe combat landing?
I know zip about fighter escorts. Either you saw training, or they
plane had something very important in it.
There aren't a whole lot of cargo aircraft. If not a C-17, then maybe
a C-5?
NC
"krackula" <krac...@i.am> wrote in message
news:an2md4pv834lhiku2...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:11:52 -0700, "Lumpy"
> <lu...@digitalcartography.com> wrote:
>
>
> a plane like that it 's to shield it if it's fired on . maybe
> because the big sucker doesn't have any defense systems and the f-16s
> are loaded with them ( sams ? ) ......... or
SAMS - Surface to Air Missiles. I don't think F-16's carry those.
krackula
what I meant is that the F-16 is equipped to defend against sams ,
thus smothering the large aircraft as it took off , just in case (
as the large aircraft probably doesn't have those defense abilities ).
I've seen AF1 land and take off a number of times and the F-16s are
nearby but not smothering it as they were in this case. of course AF1
is reported to have it's own sam defense abilities built in and
wouldn't need such close support.
krackula
>
>My understanding of circling over the airport for take-off and landing
>is to keep the plane over a "secure" zone. Secure zone as opposed to
>flying straight over a grove of palm trees with bad guys equipped with
>Strellas. If you watch fighters land at Nellis, they will sometimes do
>a little bit of circling to lose altitude before landing, as opposed
>to what you see at your local commercial airport. I know they show the
>spiral landing when Travis has an open house. When Hillary was on her
>infamous Bosnian landing, they did the spiral landing to avoid sniper
>fire outside the airport. Of course, she told the story a little
>differently. ;-) There is probably an official term for such a
>landing. Maybe combat landing?
>
>I know zip about fighter escorts. Either you saw training, or they
>plane had something very important in it.
>
>There aren't a whole lot of cargo aircraft. If not a C-17, then maybe
>a C-5?
seems like spiraling would have been unnecessary where this flight
took place ....... seems to imply an even larger concern about the
cargo than might have been expected normally, considering.
what hops right into my mind ( of course ) is a cargo that contained a
lot of lead ( shielding ! ) due to the extreme difficulty the cargo
plane had taking off. I've seen those land caravans with that
strange looking semi-trailer ( armed choppers, several heavily armed
lead military vehicles , the semi truck / trailer , several
following test equipment vehicles and several more heavily armed
military guard vehicles .......... all preceeded by a chopper then
several black suburbans , all traveling about 35 - 45 mph ) a
couple of times on hwy XX/X and the way that semi truck strains is
reminiscent of the cargo plane ,,,,,,,,,,,, BUT I'm pretty sure "
stuff " ( that needs THAT kind of lead shielding ) is NEVER
transported by air in recent years and always by rail or land.
especially " stuff " that would draw THAT serious of a protection
umbrella. also , I just learned that 20 - 30 minutes before the
cargo plane took off that 4 - 6 more f-16s also took flight all
together in a formation . boy , I'd like to be a fly on the wall
, my curiosity is killing me on that one ! ay ahha hha hah ha
hope it's not a sign that a facility move is afoot, but you'd think
all that kinda " stuff " would go by rail or overland late at night
if an activity was changing locations.
of course we'll probably never know , sure was kewl tho to see.
if only we knew where THAT cargo plane ended up ya yaha ha ha
( yea, like that'll ever happen ) . might have been a kewl new toy
on it's way to being tested somewhere. all the " interesting stuff
" usually comes in rather than goes out of here in recent years
( storage ) except for the device periodic maintenance and upgrade
programs and " all that " always travels overland / rail .
hey !! , at the least it probably means that something interesting
maybe even special was / is taking place hereabouts ..... that
could be a good thing for everyone trying to " get a look " at the
new toys .......... you never know.
krackula
it's not a secret airport, I just didn't want to get specific enough
about it to " spill the beans " ( and get my hind end kicked even more
) just in case they were stupid enough to file flight plans or leave
some kind of unavoidable electronic trail and would be inclined to
" thank " me ( again ) ........... I've already said enough that an
enterprising person might look at weekday flight activity before
noon ( oh oh is that shoe leather I smell ? ) maybe a few
weeks back and stumble upon something interesting.
( better hurry, after I post this, moist residue might dry up
real quick ) think north of you and west ( way ) of
this ( Nevada ) location ............ you've got it if it's a place
you'd NEVER think of considering to be likely.
I think you're right tho . it probably was a load of lizards ( red
) heads on their way for a vacation out in the pacific islands and
Elvis was flying the cargo plane ( too fat to fly in a F-16 anyway ) .
just a weekend out and about to see some fall leaves turn color.
I do see El vii all the time, sometimes falling out of the skies by
the dozens .........
no markings or paint scheme on the VERY dark colored cargo plane ,
jets ( I think , hey I'm no flyboy expert ) looked just like all
those noisy Red Flag jobbies , nothing special looking about them
except they looked armed , which is nothing unusual . the jets
which lift off all the time , there , are " always " heavily armed .
OK, thats it ...... if I'm gone , now, for a couple more months ( or
worse moved to a " Ranch " in s.e. Utah ) , guess you'll know why !!!
kripes
p.s. ....... guess you probably know there's NO ham radio round
these parts...... like that phone commercial on TV , it's a dead
zone. they'd be on me like flies, in minutes , if I fired up on 40
or any band ( 40 and 20 cw < .027 > being my favorite places to hang
tho when I'm back home ).
Lumpy
> guess you probably know there's NO ham radio round
> these parts...... like that phone commercial on TV , it's a dead
> zone. they'd be on me like flies, in minutes , if I fired up on 40
> or any band ( 40 and 20 cw < .027 > being my favorite places to hang
> tho when I'm back home ).
I don't know nuthin' 'bout TV. Don't own one.
40m is old topic. This week it's 20m phone.
240, 243, 265. Machine gun contacts from 2300z
till dark. Fast as I can call CQ on 5w, battery
power.
No dead zones. Fire up that bicycle/m of yours
and get your ass on the air.
Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke
mi...@sushi.com
It really seems pointless to start this thread and not say where it
was spotted. Anyway, in the future, I simply won't bother responding
to your posts. It's just a waste of time if the information flows in
one direction.
krackula
oh well never mind. guess this isn't worth " all that " anyway.
just wanted to cue you into some REAL stuff happening
rather than see you waste so much of your time where you currently
do . I think you'd rather keep on doing what you currently are
anyway.
I guess you don't understand that all information isn't free for
everyone ( to give out or receive ) , seems retarded for me to take
the chances I do / have just to bump into clueless grumpy old
curmudgeons. h ah ah ah ah ah a trippy ...................
just found out that our west coast redirect on Comcast
is going to drop newsgroups completely ( comcast is going out of the
newsgroup business ) , so I'll probably be off this NG ( all NGs )
unless we ( eagles nest ) get a new provider which is highly
unlikely.
guess I'll miss your ole grumpy intolerant personality and same
goes for grumpy er ....... ah ..... Lumpy too. might be able to
drive into town and use some of the casino wifi from time to time
dunno . far as I can tell , I'm just about the only person ( last
remaining person , there was another you weren't aware of at the time
< now passed away >) on here on the " other " side of the flats
( so to speak ) . this will be the end of an era, I guess
.......... seems kinda sad
news groups have pretty much crapped out anyway with most people
moving on to new places, guess like a lot of things on the web , times
change.
bye Lumpy , it's been great talking with you especially since we have
a number of things in common. I'll still have NG access til the 27th
of October but I'm " away " a lot and have trouble getting to a
computer lately. have a good one everyone , it's been interesting
.................
tired ole krackula ...........
mi...@sushi.com
Clue me in. Hardly. Clue me in means you actually provided
information. Anyway, planes with escorts are not all that unusual.
Williams Gateway is a place where you see it often.
Lumpy
> bye Lumpy , it's been great talking with you especially since we have
> a number of things in common. I'll still have NG access til the 27th
> of October but I'm " away " a lot and have trouble getting to a
> computer lately.
Get yur ass up on 14.240 any afternoon
around 0000-0200z (grayline). I've been
slaying the legal limit, 75' tower, band
condition bitching guys with my little
5w and a piece of wire at 20'.
Lumpy
Oooh!
http://digitalcartography.com/jazz/