MISTIC: 350,008 Item Pairs
Christopher McKinstry
MISTIC (Minimum Intelligent Signal Test Item Corpus)
http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html has passed 350,000 item pairs
as of March 22, 1997.
The MIST Item Corpus Project is the largest (in terms of participants)
Artificial Intelligence project in human history. This is due entirely
to the WWW and people like you. The goal of this project is to make a
high resolution conceptual map of human cognition. This map will be used
in various research projects and might well become the basis of an
artificially conscious computer system.
Please visit MISTIC and contribute your own items, such as these:
Beds can be used to sit on. :true
When gardens are in bloom they attract more interest. :true
All dimensions of a container must be considered to dermine its volume.
:true
At birth, human beings can walk on two feet. :false
Orange juice tastes bad, for a short time, after brushing your teeth.
:true
Most people sleep with their eyes closed. :true
Swimming with ski pants on is more difficult than swimming nude. :true
In 1977, the Earth revolved around two suns. : false
--
K. Christopher McKinstry
Homepage: Http://www.clickable.com/employees/chris
World's Largest AI Project: Http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html
World's Coolest Interactive Drama http://www.cr6.com
Jim Balter
Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>
> MISTIC (Minimum Intelligent Signal Test Item Corpus)
> http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html has passed 350,000 item pairs
> as of March 22, 1997.
>
> The MIST Item Corpus Project is the largest (in terms of participants)
> Artificial Intelligence project in human history.
And the least intelligent.
> Beds can be used to sit on. :true
Tell that to an elephant.
> All dimensions of a container must be considered to dermine its volume.
> :true
A great way to figure out the volume of a trombone.
> In 1977, the Earth revolved around two suns. : false
With questions like this, an intelligence, artificial or not, might
wonder why they are only up to 350000.
--
<J Q B>
John Nagle
Jim Balter <j...@netcom.com> writes:
>Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>> MISTIC (Minimum Intelligent Signal Test Item Corpus)
>> http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html has passed 350,000 item pairs
>> as of March 22, 1997.
>> The MIST Item Corpus Project is the largest (in terms of participants)
>> Artificial Intelligence project in human history.
>And the least intelligent.
>> Beds can be used to sit on. :true
>> :true
Well, the "Cyc" database is rather like that, although better
organized for machine processing.
John Nagle
Christopher McKinstry
Jim, MISTIC has a very simple purpose... build a test that can tell the
difference between a human and a random system with a very high degree
of accracy. Every single question that has a high between human
stability is important.
This project has been set up to continue to collect data long after both
you and I are dead. It's bigger than me, it's bigger than you, and more
important than either of us.
History will not be kind to your attitude if it remembers you at all.
Jim Balter wrote:
>
> Christopher McKinstry wrote:
> >
> > MISTIC (Minimum Intelligent Signal Test Item Corpus)
> > http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html has passed 350,000 item pairs
> > as of March 22, 1997.
> >
> > The MIST Item Corpus Project is the largest (in terms of participants)
> > Artificial Intelligence project in human history.
>
> And the least intelligent.
>
> > Beds can be used to sit on. :true
>
> Tell that to an elephant.
>
> > All dimensions of a container must be considered to dermine its volume.
> > :true
>
> A great way to figure out the volume of a trombone.
>
> > In 1977, the Earth revolved around two suns. : false
>
> With questions like this, an intelligence, artificial or not, might
> wonder why they are only up to 350000.
>
> --
> <J Q B>
--
Christopher McKinstry
John Nagle wrote:
> Well, the "Cyc" database is rather like that, although better
> organized for machine processing.
>
> John Nagle
Cyc is private, and not available to the public. As well, Cyc is top
down... it takes well trained knowledge engineers to enter data into
Cyc.
MISTIC is made by the public, for the public(it will be released after
we publish, of course). It is completely bottom up. Everything that
requires a knowledge engineer on Cyc, will be discovered automatically
with anaylsis of the MISTIC db.
MISTIC's primary purpose is to build a map of human consciousness. The
only people that have ever seen an actual visual map (adaptive-subspace
self-organizing map) of human consciousness are on the MISTIC team...
it's lowres right now, but we know what it looks like (very fractal)...
most everyone else will have to wait until after it makes the cover of
Science.
David G. Mitchell
In article <3337F1...@clickable.com>,
Christopher McKinstry <ch...@clickable.com> wrote:
>Jim, MISTIC has a very simple purpose... build a test that can tell the
>difference between a human and a random system with a very high degree
>of accracy.
Please explain;
- what you mean by a "random system",
- why distinguishing humans from such a system is an interesting task,
- what role your collection of "facts" has in performing this task.
David
Jim Balter
Christopher McKinstry wrote:
> This project has been set up to continue to collect data long after both
> you and I are dead. It's bigger than me, it's bigger than you, and more
> important than either of us.
What is big here is McKinstry's ego, like the ego of every crackpot
who thinks they have discovered or invented something of significance.
--
<J Q B>
Philip Jackson
Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>
> John Nagle wrote:
>
> > Well, the "Cyc" database is rather like that, although better
> > organized for machine processing.
> >
> > John Nagle
Both Cyc and MISTIC follow a similar approach of assembling a large fact
base as a route toward achieving human-level AI. This approach in itself
cannot be sufficient to achieve human-level AI -- babies are not born
knowing all the commonsense facts in Cyc, they acquire these facts as a
result of a general-purpose innate intelligence that has yet to be
emulated.
Beyond this surface level similarity, Cyc is quite different, and far
more advanced, than the ramblings of MISTIC. Cyc provides an ontology
for real-world knowledge within which one can state both commonsense
facts and their exceptions. Cyc supports inference and natural language
disambiguation. McKinstry has not yet posted any description of how
MISTIC might provide these things. Cyc is a valid large-scale
contribution to the field of AI. MISTIC is not.
>
> Cyc is private, and not available to the public.
Not exactly -- Cyc is commercially available, with limitations.
> As well, Cyc is top
> down... it takes well trained knowledge engineers to enter data into
> Cyc.
The entry of knowledge into Cyc by well-trained engineers has been both
a bottom up and top down process.
>
> MISTIC is made by the public, for the public(it will be released after
> we publish, of course).
Which means it is still private, though it has been created by public
contributions. McKinstry is like an inverted Robin Hood, taking from the
public to give to himself, though he has little chance of doing anything
useful with the input he is gathering.
> It is completely bottom up. Everything that
> requires a knowledge engineer on Cyc, will be discovered automatically
> with anaylsis of the MISTIC db.
How? What kind of analysis? This is a very challenging research topic.
McKinstry has not yet posted anything substantive about such things will
be discovered automatically -- Rather he has stated vaguely:
"My assertion is that [properties of human intelligence such as
creativity, reasoning, problem-solving, learning] are emergent
properties of a sufficiently large MIST database. Statistical systems,
such as neural nets can effectively cluster the raw MIST data and
generalize responses to stimuli that have not been seen by the system
before. Just as humans do."
This statement by him is completely ludicrous.
> MISTIC's primary purpose is to build a map of human consciousness.
Again, McKinstry tosses terms around loosely. To suggest that a
collection of true/false pseudo-facts is a map of either consciousness
or intelligence is ridiculous.
> The only people that have ever seen an actual visual map (adaptive-subspace
> self-organizing map) of human consciousness are on the MISTIC team...
No, these may be the only people who have deluded themselves into
thinking they are looking at a map of human consciousness.
> it's lowres right now, but we know what it looks like (very fractal)...
The reason McKinstry thinks it looks fractal is suggested by the
following excerpt of a previous posting:
CM: "For example, MIST items cluster reasonable well when simply sorted
alaphabetically."
PCJ: "No. For perhaps any two English sentences that you have sorted
together
alphabetically and claim cluster together well, one can probably easily
construct
other sentences that would fit between them and cluster differently. For
example, suppose MIST contained the following two sentences which sort
and cluster together:
Potatoes are good to eat. : true
Potatoes are nutritious. : true
"Then one could easily add the following sentences between them:
Potatoes are gooey : false
Potatoes are noisy : false"
Unlike the MISTIC pseudo-fact base, a truly fractal structure has a
definite pattern (which repeats at different scales of observation), and
which can be described mathematically and recreated exactly. In contrast
the MISTIC pseudo-fact base has a completely arbitrary structure that
can be manipulated ad nauseum to create any kind of pattern desired.
> most everyone else will have to wait until after it makes the cover of
> Science.
Don't hold your breath.
Phil Jackson
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"...for the word is the sole sign and the only certain mark of the
presence of thought hidden and wrapt up in the body..." -- Descartes
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Disclaimers. <pjac...@ic.net>
Christopher McKinstry
David G. Mitchell wrote:
> Please explain;
> - what you mean by a "random system",
all current non-human systems would be classified as random systems.
specifically a random system is a system that score .5 (half
correct/half incorrect) on a MIST Test.
> - why distinguishing humans from such a system is an interesting task,
because and deviation from random can be amplified. for example a
feedback system such as a neural net could be trained on MIST items.
with a large enough number of items, any "chance correctness" can be
amplified by that feedback system. thus, eventually in a MIST domain, it
would become increasingly hard to distinguish human from machine.
> - what role your collection of "facts" has in performing this task.
i started the project and maintain the systems to collect the data.
Christopher McKinstry
jim, just ignore the whole thing. take a deep breath. the data
collection can't possibly hurt you, so don't worry about it. take your
destructive tendencies elsewhere.
--
Chris Hooley
>
>The MIST Item Corpus Project is the largest (in terms of participants)
>Artificial Intelligence project in human history. This is due entirely
>to the WWW and people like you. The goal of this project is to make a
>high resolution conceptual map of human cognition.
Amazing that scientists would ever resist learning something new, eh?
I think you'll demonstrate a close mimic of human mentation and teach
us all a lot besides.
Weighting is an issue, but if repeated inputs count repeatedly it
should work out.
Somehow the core stuff, like desire to continue living and to
replicate have to settle deep in the db. Intention makes choices
count, seperates the impersonal man in the Chinese room from the
vulnerable self. If your system self-organizes as though it had
something to lose, it'll shock the naysayers.
Along those lines, how are you recognizing statements of organization?
Many of our most important meanings are rules about organizing
meanings. In other words, the hierarchy of meaning isn't democratic.
The only other thing is that your mind will be affected by the medium
of collection. It will most resemble an adolescent boy. :-)
Good science!
Chris
Christopher McKinstry
Philip Jackson wrote:
<snip>
> "My assertion is that [properties of human intelligence such as
> creativity, reasoning, problem-solving, learning] are emergent
> properties of a sufficiently large MIST database. Statistical systems,
> such as neural nets can effectively cluster the raw MIST data and
> generalize responses to stimuli that have not been seen by the system
> before. Just as humans do."
that's my assertion, and i'm sticking to it.
> CM: "For example, MIST items cluster reasonable well when simply sorted
> alaphabetically."
this is quite out of context, but it happens to be true. however, MIST
self organize much, much better. the MISTIC sampling captures what we
are at very high resolution. everything we are can be derived from a
sufficiently large MIST item database. such a database needs no exteranl
references to the world, no knowledge engineers.
one could change every word in the database to something random, and
looking at the self organized clusters, one could very easily translate
it back to english, because it's a map of thought not language.
MISTIC makes the conceptual structures of our consciousness just as
visible as a cat scan or mri makes visible the structures of our brains.
the concept, process and the math are identical. the only difference is
that human conscious is an object that exists in a much higher
dimensionality, than the 3-d physical brain.
MISTIC is high dimensional tomography.
CYC is an attempt to build a high dimensionality object from scratch,
without ever seeing one.
SCN User
When my best friend Naiden and I played the game of kings as teen-
agers, Naiden laughed at my attempt to create a chess computer by
listing on sheets of paper all best responses to his chess moves.
He pointed out that I could never gather up a list of all gambits
and likewise people are now rushing to critique the MIST Project.
Thus Philip Jackson comments on what Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>> MISTIC is made by the public, for the public (it will be released
>> after we publish, of course).
> Which means it is still private, though it has been created by
> public contributions. McKinstry is like an inverted Robin Hood,
> taking from the public to give to himself, though he has little
> chance of doing anything useful with the input he is gathering.
Mr. McKinstry has the same chance that T. Edison had to invent an
electric light, or that U.S. President Jimmy Carter had to create
peace between Egypt and Israel. Philip Jackson has a clever wit,
with his remark above about Robin Hood, but the world needs those
who dream and fail, and then dream again as perhaps Mr. McKinstry
does in his AI work. Naiden laughed at Murray in 1962, but 1997:
/^^^^^^^^^^^\ Web-borne Mentifex (q.v.) AI Meme /^^^^^^^^^^^\
/visual memory\ semantic ________ / auditory \
| /--------|-------\ memory / syntax \ | speech memory |
| | recog-|nition | \________/<--|-------------\ |
| ___|___ | | flush-vector| spiral| _______ | |
| /image \ | __|___ ___V___ loop| /stored \ | |
| / percept \ | /deep \<-----/lexical\<---|--/ phonemes\| |
| \ engrams /<--|-->/concepts\--->/concepts \---|->\ of words/ |
| \_______/ | \________/ \_________/ | \_______/ |
Footnote to history: Naiden's father, who taught at The Lakeside
School in Seattle, caused Microsoft to come into existence by re-
questing of the Lakeside Mothers Club that they give one thousand
dollars for the purpose of buying computer timeshare for students
with the result that Gates and Allen used up all the time and....
For photo of Naiden see NYT 25.MAR.1993 C-19, facing John Hersey.
Christopher McKinstry
Chris Hooley wrote:
> The only other thing is that your mind will be affected by the medium
> of collection. It will most resemble an adolescent boy. :-)
there's a whole pile of items in the db like the following:
do you feel lonely at time? true
when peole laugh at you do you sometime feel bad? true
the older you get the more mortal you feel. true
and so on... thus, the human emotional factor is also captured in
MISTIC. there's some very advanced stuff in there. it is becomming very
human. a complete adualt consciousness can be captured with enough MIST
items... not just an adolescent boy. (why you specified a sex, i have no
idea).
Philip Jackson
Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>
> Philip Jackson wrote:
> <snip>
> > "My assertion is that [properties of human intelligence such as
> > creativity, reasoning, problem-solving, learning] are emergent
> > properties of a sufficiently large MIST database. Statistical systems,
> > such as neural nets can effectively cluster the raw MIST data and
> > generalize responses to stimuli that have not been seen by the system
> > before. Just as humans do."
>
> that's my assertion, and i'm sticking to it.
Just to be clear for other readers, the statements in quotes above are
McKinstry's, not mine. He is repeating above that these statements in
quotes are his assertion. His <snip> elided my reference that he had
made the quoted statements. In my view, McKinstry's statements are a
very overblown, ludicrous claim and he has not yet provided any
substantiation for his claim.
[...]
> everything we are can be derived from a
> sufficiently large MIST item database. such a database needs no exteranl
> references to the world, no knowledge engineers.
Yes, and pigs can fly.
> one could change every word in the database to something random, and
> looking at the self organized clusters, one could very easily translate
> it back to english, because it's a map of thought not language.
>
> MISTIC makes the conceptual structures of our consciousness just as
> visible as a cat scan or mri makes visible the structures of our brains.
> the concept, process and the math are identical. the only difference is
> that human conscious is an object that exists in a much higher
> dimensionality, than the 3-d physical brain. [...]
You have yet to prove or substantiate any of your claims. Put up or shut
up. A claim that all this will happen eventually, without any
substantive description of how, is just as vacuous and unsubstantiated
as all your other claims.
Jim Balter
Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>
> Chris Hooley wrote:
> > The only other thing is that your mind will be affected by the medium
> > of collection. It will most resemble an adolescent boy. :-)
>
> there's a whole pile of items in the db like the following:
>
> do you feel lonely at time? true
> when peole laugh at you do you sometime feel bad? true
> the older you get the more mortal you feel. true
Sounds like a Scientology questionnaire.
Actually I think MIST is an intelligence test of sorts.
Intelligent people understand what's wrong with it.
Sometimes I feel lonely. True.
Sometimes I don't feel lonely. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another dollar. True.
Sometimes I dont't think I'd be happy with just another dollar. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 2 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 2 dollars. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 3 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 3 dollars. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 4 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 4 dollars. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 5 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 5 dollars. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 6 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 6 dollars. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 7 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 7 dollars. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 8 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 8 dollars. True.
Sometimes I think I'd be happy with just another 9 dollars. True.
Sometimes I don't think I'd be happy with just another 9 dollars. True.
Sometimes I feel just like a monkey at a typewriteglumphghx. Yep.
> Good science!
> Chris
You flunk.
--
<J Q B>
Philip Jackson
Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>
> Chris Hooley wrote:
> > The only other thing is that your mind will be affected by the medium
> > of collection. It will most resemble an adolescent boy. :-)
>
> there's a whole pile of items in the db like the following:
>
> do you feel lonely at time? true
> when peole laugh at you do you sometime feel bad? true
> the older you get the more mortal you feel. true
>
> MISTIC. there's some very advanced stuff in there. it is becomming very
> human. a complete adualt consciousness can be captured with enough MIST
> items... not just an adolescent boy. (why you specified a sex, i have no
> idea).
Here McKinstry forgets another element of human intelligence and
consciousness that is context dependent. (Perhaps because he has no idea
what sex is? Perhaps McKinstry is really a an 8 year old?) MISTIC could
flunk the first Turing Test it gets when someone asks whether it's male
or female, and then asks further questions specific to adult males and
females.
Ansel Morgan
Philip Jackson wrote:
> You have yet to prove or substantiate any of your claims. Put up or shut
> up. A claim that all this will happen eventually, without any
> substantive description of how, is just as vacuous and unsubstantiated
> as all your other claims.
what i claim is tangental to the project of data collection. don't worry
about it. just bite your tounge, ignore my claims and put some data in
the MISTIC database.
it doesn't matter if my claims turn out to be true or not. the data is
important.
Jim Balter
> what i claim is tangental to the project of data collection. don't worry
> about it. just bite your tounge, ignore my claims and put some data in
> the MISTIC database.
>
> it doesn't matter if my claims turn out to be true or not. the data is
> important.
"What can it hurt to call?" -- Dionne Wartlick
--
<J Q B>
David Hatch
Chris-
The "higher dimensionality" you refer to is associated with the square
root of minus
one ( i ) - the true symbol of consciousness. It has an unsolvable quality
to it,
which leads me to believe that project MYSTIC will come to a dead end. You
are
welcome to add this question to the database: Does the square root of minus
one have an easy solution? : false
See http://home.inreach.com/davhatch/Theory/index.html
for more about the identity between consciousness and the square root of
minus one ( i ).
- Dave
Christopher McKinstry <ch...@clickable.com> wrote in article
<333C59...@clickable.com>...
><snip>
> that human conscious is an object that exists in a much higher
> dimensionality, than the 3-d physical brain.
>
Bernard Tocail
Ansel Morgan wrote:
>
> Philip Jackson wrote:
>
> > You have yet to prove or substantiate any of your claims. Put up or shut
> > up. A claim that all this will happen eventually, without any
> > substantive description of how, is just as vacuous and unsubstantiated
> > as all your other claims.
>
> about it. just bite your tounge, ignore my claims and put some data in
> the MISTIC database.
>
> it doesn't matter if my claims turn out to be true or not. the data is
> important.
> K. Christopher McKinstry
> Homepage: Http://www.clickable.com/employees/chris
> World's Largest AI Project: Http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html
> World's Coolest Interactive Drama http://www.cr6.com
test de réponse
Bernard Tocail
Christopher McKinstry wrote:
>
> Chris Hooley wrote:
> > The only other thing is that your mind will be affected by the medium
> > of collection. It will most resemble an adolescent boy. :-)
>
> there's a whole pile of items in the db like the following:
>
> do you feel lonely at time? true
> when peole laugh at you do you sometime feel bad? true
> the older you get the more mortal you feel. true
>
> and so on... thus, the human emotional factor is also captured in
> MISTIC. there's some very advanced stuff in there. it is becomming very
> human. a complete adualt consciousness can be captured with enough MIST
> items... not just an adolescent boy. (why you specified a sex, i have no
> idea).
> K. Christopher McKinstry
> Homepage: Http://www.clickable.com/employees/chris
> World's Largest AI Project: Http://www.clickable.com/mist_corpus.html
> World's Coolest Interactive Drama http://www.cr6.com
ffffff
Leo Smith
> test de r=E9ponse
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