Password vault software
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11.  Vanguard  
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 More options Aug 20 2007, 10:43 am
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: "Vanguard" <vangu...@mail.invalid>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:43:57 -0500
Local: Mon, Aug 20 2007 10:43 am
Subject: Re: Password vault software

"Sebastian G." wrote in message news:5itfnmF3rkco6U1@mid.dfncis.de...
>> Oh, I see.  If I had recommended Outpost then the results for
>> Outpost are somehow obvious in showing Outpost is defective
>> software.  Since a large number of personal software firewalls are
>> listed, they must all be defective, uh huh.

> Correct.

>> Did you miss the part that they are *software* firewalls which
>> means they are also running on the SAME host as the malware?

> See? That's why they're defective.

Padlocks don't stop determined burglars, either, yet I bet you still
lock your house and car doors when you leave them.

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12.  Sebastian G.  
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 More options Aug 20 2007, 1:05 pm
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: "Sebastian G." <se...@seppig.de>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:05:19 +0200
Local: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:05 pm
Subject: Re: Password vault software

Vanguard wrote:
> "Sebastian G." wrote in message news:5itfnmF3rkco6U1@mid.dfncis.de...
>>> Oh, I see.  If I had recommended Outpost then the results for
>>> Outpost are somehow obvious in showing Outpost is defective
>>> software.  Since a large number of personal software firewalls are
>>> listed, they must all be defective, uh huh.
>> Correct.

>>> Did you miss the part that they are *software* firewalls which
>>> means they are also running on the SAME host as the malware?
>> See? That's why they're defective.

> Padlocks don't stop determined burglars, either, yet I bet you still
> lock your house and car doors when you leave them.

Many mistakes in the argument:

- Padlocks aren't supposed to protect your house or car, but to fulfill the
requirements from your assurance.
- In the analogue world, there is always a "use more force". In the digital
world, all states are enumerable and can be addressed, thus security
measures can be complete. However, all incomplete measures can be trivially
circumvented.

At any rate, such functionality does not belong to a packet filter. And a
packet filter isn't supposed to to protect against malware on the host.


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13.  Vanguard  
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 More options Aug 19 2007, 5:21 pm
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: "Vanguard" <vangu...@mail.invalid>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:21:51 -0500
Local: Sun, Aug 19 2007 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: Password vault software
I mentioned Avira's AntiVir in my prior post.  I tried it for awhile
but got rid of it.  Although it might have higher coverage than AVG, I
couldn't take the constant banner crap.  They'd spew out a large
window telling you the free version doesn't include anti-spyware
protection.  A window appears during the daily update that will push
you out of any game and be on top of all other windows (i.e., it
forces their banner window in your face).

When you install, you get a 3-month trial period.  They say the
license will extend itself for another 4 weeks but it then goes into
"demo" mode (you'll see "Key expired [DEMO Mode]" in the update
report).  That means it will detect but not disinfect (i.e., it
becomes worthless).  After expiration, you don't get any more
signature updates (i.e., the product goes dead and can detect only the
old malware).  Then you have to buy the Personal Premium version
($27).  You could save a partition image before installing AntiVir and
then restore it after the expiration to again install AntiVir but then
you lose any other changes made to that partition over that 3-month
interval.  AntiVir was a good product until Avira got their hands on
it and fucked it up.

I knew there were reasons why I dumped Avira's demoware.  Not
interested in popup windows (i.e., banners), especially when they
interfere with other programs.  Not interested in trialing an AV
product for just 3 months whereupon it becomes crippled for another
month and then it stops accepting sig updates.  Freeware it is not.
Demoware it be.  Not interested in self-destruct software.

Note:
AVG also has a banner but also an option to turn it off.

The free versions don't have all the features testing in the
av-comparatives report.  For example, the free version of Avast does
not include script blocking.  If you just look at the average of
Windows and macro viruses (what Avast can handle), Avast is 97.01%
versus 94.46% for AVG.  I can't tell if AVG includes script blocking
(no option to configure it).  Avast is much more configurable than
AVG.  I can run AVG using a command line so I can use the far superior
options in Task Scheduler rather than the scheduler included in AVG.
Alwil says their Avast doesn't have a CLI (command-line interface).
Either AVG or Avast will do you well.  I can't tell how well Panda's
AV works.

You might decide not to stick with Panda and use one of the freebie AV
alternatives which means you definitely don't need to stick with what
firewall is included in Panda's suite.


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14.  Bogwitch  
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 More options Aug 19 2007, 5:52 pm
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: Bogwitch <Bogwi...@reply.to.group.fake>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:52:34 GMT
Local: Sun, Aug 19 2007 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: Password vault software

Hi Vanguard,

I have Avira Antivir PersonalEdition Classic loaded onto one of my lab
machines. It is bannerware but it is _NOT_ crippleware. It has been
running succesfully for well over a year with full updates and no
license timeout. I don't know if this is something that has changed
since you last used it. Yes, the banner is annoying but I have found
detection rates to be excellent, better than a lot of the commercial
A/V. It is the product I have recommended to home users within my family
and friends. I have no experience of it in it's commercial clothes -
they would not provide the commercial version for my lab - I may ask
again. :)

I was put off AVG some time ago when they used to have updates only once
a fortnight for the home version - I am reliably informed that they have
changed the policy on this and now provide daily updates but it's
difficult to forgive and forget - the same as you with Avira, I guess!

IMHO, the detection rates with Panda are dismal. (comparitively speaking)

Do you have any experience of submitting virus reports to any of the AV
companies? I have had mixed success from AV companies but the response
from Avira has been excellent, only surpassed by Sophos and don't get me
started about McAfee!

Bogwitch.


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15.  Vanguard  
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 More options Aug 20 2007, 1:25 am
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: "Vanguard" <vangu...@mail.invalid>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:25:29 -0500
Local: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:25 am
Subject: Re: Password vault software
"Bogwitch" wrote in message

news:CY2yi.11374$mZ5.9478@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...

> I have Avira Antivir PersonalEdition Classic loaded onto one of my
> lab machines. It is bannerware but it is _NOT_ crippleware. It has
> been running succesfully for well over a year with full updates and
> no license timeout.

Just before posting, I ran a test of AntiVir in a VM under VMWware
Server.  After the install (and reboot) done today (Aug 2007), I did a
sig update.  I then moved the clock forward to 2 weeks beyond the
3-month trial period and rebooted.  The sig update still occurred but
the log showed that AntiVir was now in DEMO mode.  Something must
change regarding the functionality of a product that switches from
full to demo mode.  I then moved the date ahead to Mar 2008, rebooted,
and an attempt to run a sig update now showed in the log showed
"invalid license key" plus the sig update failed (so it still showed
the last update was back in Aug 2007 when it was first updated).  I
saw the product change to DEMO mode after the 3-month trial period but
before the extended month had elapsed.  At 7 months out, it refused to
retrieve sig updates complaining about an invalid license and still
showed the 7-month old sig datestamp.  This was tested using AntiVir
version 7.00.04.15 (since that's what the download is today) under
Windows XP Pro SP-2 but under VMWare Server 1.0.3.

It is unclear what exactly happens when AntiVir goes into DEMO mode
but it does happen after the 3-month trial.  I suspect that you don't
get program updates in the 4th month but still get sig updates (but I
had their latest version so there were no program updates to retrieve
to test).  I've seen many posts by other AntiVir users who complain
that their last signature update was sometime before the trial
expiration; i.e., after the trial expires then no more updates.

If it weren't for the banners and the expiration then I'd be using
AntiVir (free version).  I just removed AVG (free) and put in Avast
which consumes twice the memory (real + virtual) of AVG: 3.3MB real +
37.1MB virtual for AVG, 41.7MB real + 41.1MB virtual for Avast.  There
are several features of Avast that I like but it definitely consumes
more memory.  Hopefully another 40MB won't matter with 2GB real RAM.
Unfortunately I've had several more false positives with Avast than
with AVG.  I understand why the false positives on the Nirsoft
utilities but not why on the .vdmk files for the VMs in VMWare (which
are base OS installs with no other software, like Windows XP Pro SP-2,
Solaris 10, and Fedora 7).  For AVG, I could schedule an on-demand
scan using the command-line in a Task Scheduler event (the schedulers
suck that are in AV products) but the ashCmd.exe for command-line
access to Avast is missing in the free version.  I can run
"ashQuick.exe c:\ d:\" to scan my 2 drives but it halts on a detection
(even a false one) so it is worthless for scheduling a scan when no
one will be at the host.

I suppose that eventually I'll have to abandon the freebies and get
the commercial versions.  Oh joy, then I get to trial all the
commercial versions to compare them against each other.

> I was put off AVG some time ago when they used to have updates only
> once a fortnight for the home version - I am reliably informed that
> they have changed the policy on this and now provide daily updates
> but it's difficult to forgive and forget - the same as you with
> Avira, I guess!

From what I've seen from using AVG (free) for several months, you get
one update per day for the free version.  You get to schedule it to
occur within a selected 2-hour slot so you can vary the time of day
when it happens.  The default for Avast (free) is 4 hours although you
can change it.  I gave up on the AntiVir retest when I saw it
interferring with my fullscreen apps with its popover banner windows,
saw it go into DEMO mode after the 3-month trial expiration, and
couldn't get sig updates after the 3+1 trial period, so I don't know
what are the scheduling options for updates in AntiVir.

> Do you have any experience of submitting virus reports to any of the
> AV companies? I have had mixed success from AV companies but the
> response from Avira has been excellent, only surpassed by Sophos and
> don't get me started about McAfee!

I figure if the AV program tells me about a virus then there is no
point to report it.  They already know.  Last time I submitted any
suspect files was to Symantec who started a discussion within 3 days.
That was several years ago (and for false positives).  It's been so
infrequent that a virus or malware made it to my host that I can't
remember when I last had any show up.  Despite all the security
software (which I've pared down to IPS, AV, firewall, and anti-spyware
where only 1 of each is running since I still want a usable host), I
figure the final protection is at the user.  All the security software
in the world cannot circumvent an ignorant or corruptive user since
their general-purpose computer must still be usable to them.

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16.  Vanguard  
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 More options Aug 20 2007, 4:41 am
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: "Vanguard" <vangu...@mail.invalid>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:41:12 -0500
Local: Mon, Aug 20 2007 4:41 am
Subject: Re: Password vault software
I searched on "demo mode" in Avira's forums and found several posts
which state that I need to download and also install the hbdev.key (a
license file).  After installing AntiVir, I need to copy this file
into AntiVir's install directory and reboot.  Despite the install
generating a random serial number, apparently you need this newer
license file.  So I did the following in a virtual machine:

- Download latest version of AntiVir.
- Download new hbdev.key file.
- Install Antivir but choose to NOT do any updates (so they'd be
available later since never applied yet).
- The product's status says it license expires on 11/30/2007.
- I set the clock ahead to 12/14/2007, two weeks after the expiration
and supposedly within the 1 month extension.
- Rebooted the VM.
- Tried to do an update.
- The update failed with "no valid license key" and "key expired [DEMO
Mode]".

So feel lucky that you have an older version and/or a license key that
pushes the expiration out a long ways for you.  I can only get a
3-month trial of AntiVir Personal Classic (the free version).


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17.  Todd H.  
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 More options Aug 17 2007, 10:54 pm
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: comph...@toddh.net (Todd H.)
Date: 17 Aug 2007 21:54:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Password vault software

"Ed" <jag_manR__EM*-0_V_E...@hotmail.com> writes:
> How secure are "password vault" products like Faena MyID? I'm not
> talking about what they claim about the length of key they use, but
> how trustworthy the supplier/developer is. Or, perhaps I should be
> asking how much trust I have to place on the supplier/developer. For
> example, what would keep an unscrupulous supplier/developer from
> embedding a little piece of code to send all my passwords to him?

This is a worthy concern.  Is it open source?  Has the source been
made publicly available for vetting and comment?   If not, I'm not
sure I'd be quick to trust it.

Password Safe is an open source alternative.

http://passwordsafe.sourceforge.net/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/passwordsafe/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Password_Safe

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/


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18.  Ed  
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 More options Aug 18 2007, 1:31 pm
Newsgroups: alt.computer.security
From: "Ed" <jag_manR__EM*-0_V_E...@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:31:17 GMT
Local: Sat, Aug 18 2007 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: Password vault software
Thanks, Todd. I assume MyID is not open source.
I'll take a look at Password Safe.

Ed


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