I read and listen and listen and read and I keep hoping someone somewhere will actually get to the root of our current situation. I hear about froth in the housing market, a bubble in commodities, a conundrum in this, a puzzlement in that. On and on. But, I still haven't heard anyone actually address the real problem at the bottom of our current economic crisis in this country. Once long ago, in an economy far, far away... OK. OK. No drama. I was born in the baby-boomers generation, near the end. During my lifetime the world has changed in so many ways it's beyond belief. Sci- Fi became reality and then reality doubled-down. In 1974 a van came to my high school and 3/4 of it was a computer. They demonstrated it's "power" and "abilities" and printed each of us a calendar... :) Cute, huh? This little known technology turned this country on it's head. On the way up it gave birth to the YUPPIE. High tech produced a huge wave of good paying middle class jobs. People in these jobs bought nice homes, fancy cars and designer clothing. They bought into high tech themselves. VCRs became DVDs TVs became big screen, hang it on the wall 3" thick plasma giants, video games in every home, home PCs and laptops, and anything we could imagine became available for our buying pleasure. The demand for all the goodies these families wanted and could easily afford made job opportunities for people working in construction, the automotive industry, clothing, technology, retail sales, etc, etc, etc. Then there was the restaurants and fast food industry, (These high-teckers didn't cook, they ate out.) Vacations and home decorating. Their good fortune created a whole country of people who worked in support of the techies lifestyles and improved the quality of living for those people too. So, what happened? What happened... The middle class broke the golden rule, they started moving up the financial ladder on a large scale in a big way- fast. Too many started making too much money. They were on a rocket ship to the sky and pulling the lower class up behind them in their back draft. The rich were in danger of too much company. It was starting to get crowed on the elevators up to the clouds. The insolence!! This just could not be allowed. So, the powers that be showed them. They outsourced the good paying, high tech jobs. Poof!! And then there were few. The corporations began to make really big bucks, record profits and the rich were wallowing in it. They laughed and laughed and laughed. Those arrogant geeks who thought they could rise to be one of them had been struck down. The job market started slowing. Annual raises and bonuses gave way to pay cuts or be fired and replaced. Wall Street was doing great but Main Street was faltering. Thirty year olds still living with their parents couldn't afford to live in a place of their own. The economy was slipping but as long as the general public was working 2-3 jobs per household and didn't have time to catch on, the rich were raking in their losses. The middle class had beautiful homes, fabulously expensive cars, closets filled with high priced designer clothes, a TV, computer, video game system and cable TV in every room and their jobs were disappearing faster than they had been created. Their biggest assets? Their homes. When the slip in the economy started, they were offered equity lines of credit up to 110% of the value of their home. Their paychecks were going down, the cost of living was going up but this would all blow over and then when the economy came back they could pay off the mortgages, credit cards, etc and all would be as it was. Then came the froth in housing. The problem was not that a bunch of irresponsible people got home loans they couldn't afford. It was that no one told them they weren't going to be able to afford them after all their jobs got outsourced to foreign countries and would never come back. They got blind-sided. Problem is, we still haven't seen just how deep this hole is going to get. The jobs that sky-rocketed this economy are now in India, among other countries where the pay is low, the working conditions are deplorable and corporations and the super rich can continue to make record breaking profits. They stripped the middle class and picked their bones. But, they went too far. Got too greedy. Wall Street took a big hit. Oops!! Hedge funds went under. Oh, No!! That's, that's the rich... Gotta stop that. Pumping millions, billions into the banking system. The Fed guaranteeing loans. People are still being dumped out of their homes, but, hey, at least Wall Street and the rich will be OK now. So, what now? What now... Until this government admits they let a dumb, red-neck idiot (whose only goal was to impoverish and punish the arrogant middle class and re-fund the rich) destroy this country through his arrogant "I'm the decider" policies, nothing. We just keep sinking. If they do step up and bite the bullet, admit the screw-ups instead of trying to cover them up and go around them, we have a chance. Jobs MUST be brought back. Corporations MUST be made to re-invest in this country- and NOT with tax-payer tax breaks that they hoard as cash!! Rather with some of the record breaking profits they stripped out of this country over the last 7+ years. Taxes on the upper class SHOULD be higher than those on the working class. THEY should carry the bulk of the tax burden. I am so sick of the old line about them being punished for being successful!! It boggles the mind that people who have enough money to buy a small country from money they made off the sweat and backs of the average American citizen actually resent paying taxes. Well, it's only fair that those who paid the most taxes should get the biggest tax breaks?? OK, so let's give the rich their tax breaks, forgive oil companies billions upon billions owed to the American citizens for drilling on public land, let them enjoy the health-care made available from research paid for through grants paid for by taxes paid by every American who ever worked and paid taxes. I could go on for hours, but you get the point. If the next president does not undo everything Bush screwed up. We are screwed and you can watch that rocket ship fall from the sky and make an economical crater with a bottomless pit. During the Bush administration the two worst tragedies in my lifetime occurred. 9/11 and Katrina. Bush used them to rape this country and the US Congress let him.
Most of the articles I see in the recent issues of WSJ are saying that the US economy isn't doing that bad, and that most of the Asian economies are suffering double to triple the inflation that we have.
Tourism is up in the USA, and exports are still increasing, and our trade deficit is going down. Even the real estate market is stabilizing. =================
On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:41:43 -0700 (PDT), indiaBPOking
>I read and listen and listen and read and I keep hoping someone >somewhere will actually get to the root of our current situation. I >hear about froth in the housing market, a bubble in commodities, a >conundrum in this, a puzzlement in that. On and on. But, I still >haven't heard anyone actually address the real problem at the bottom >of our current economic crisis in this country. >Once long ago, in an economy far, far away... OK. OK. No drama. >I was born in the baby-boomers generation, near the end. During my >lifetime the world has changed in so many ways it's beyond belief. Sci- >Fi became reality and then reality doubled-down. >In 1974 a van came to my high school and 3/4 of it was a computer. >They demonstrated it's "power" and "abilities" and printed each of us >a calendar... :) Cute, huh? >This little known technology turned this country on it's head. On the >way up it gave birth to the YUPPIE. High tech produced a huge wave of >good paying middle class jobs. People in these jobs bought nice homes, >fancy cars and designer clothing. They bought into high tech >themselves. VCRs became DVDs TVs became big screen, hang it on the >wall 3" thick plasma giants, video games in every home, home PCs and >laptops, and anything we could imagine became available for our buying >pleasure. The demand for all the goodies these families wanted and >could easily afford made job opportunities for people working in >construction, the automotive industry, clothing, technology, retail >sales, etc, etc, etc. Then there was the restaurants and fast food >industry, (These high-teckers didn't cook, they ate out.) Vacations >and home decorating. Their good fortune created a whole country of >people who worked in support of the techies lifestyles and improved >the quality of living for those people too. So, what happened? >What happened... The middle class broke the golden rule, they started >moving up the financial ladder on a large scale in a big way- fast. >Too many started making too much money. They were on a rocket ship to >the sky and pulling the lower class up behind them in their back >draft. The rich were in danger of too much company. It was starting to >get crowed on the elevators up to the clouds. The insolence!! This >just could not be allowed. So, the powers that be showed them. They >outsourced the good paying, high tech jobs. Poof!! And then there were >few. >The corporations began to make really big bucks, record profits and >the rich were wallowing in it. They laughed and laughed and laughed. >Those arrogant geeks who thought they could rise to be one of them had >been struck down. The job market started slowing. Annual raises and >bonuses gave way to pay cuts or be fired and replaced. Wall Street was >doing great but Main Street was faltering. Thirty year olds still >living with their parents couldn't afford to live in a place of their >own. The economy was slipping but as long as the general public was >working 2-3 jobs per household and didn't have time to catch on, the >rich were raking in their losses. >The middle class had beautiful homes, fabulously expensive cars, >closets filled with high priced designer clothes, a TV, computer, >video game system and cable TV in every room and their jobs were >disappearing faster than they had been created. Their biggest assets? >Their homes. When the slip in the economy started, they were offered >equity lines of credit up to 110% of the value of their home. Their >paychecks were going down, the cost of living was going up but this >would all blow over and then when the economy came back they could pay >off the mortgages, credit cards, etc and all would be as it was. Then >came the froth in housing. The problem was not that a bunch of >irresponsible people got home loans they couldn't afford. It was that >no one told them they weren't going to be able to afford them after >all their jobs got outsourced to foreign countries and would never >come back. They got blind-sided. >Problem is, we still haven't seen just how deep this hole is going to >get. The jobs that sky-rocketed this economy are now in India, among >other countries where the pay is low, the working conditions are >deplorable and corporations and the super rich can continue to make >record breaking profits. >They stripped the middle class and picked their bones. But, they went >too far. Got too greedy. Wall Street took a big hit. Oops!! Hedge >funds went under. Oh, No!! That's, that's the rich... Gotta stop that. >Pumping millions, billions into the banking system. The Fed >guaranteeing loans. People are still being dumped out of their homes, >but, hey, at least Wall Street and the rich will be OK now. So, what >now? >What now... Until this government admits they let a dumb, red-neck >idiot (whose only goal was to impoverish and punish the arrogant >middle class and re-fund the rich) destroy this country through his >arrogant "I'm the decider" policies, nothing. We just keep sinking. If >they do step up and bite the bullet, admit the screw-ups instead of >trying to cover them up and go around them, we have a chance. Jobs >MUST be brought back. Corporations MUST be made to re-invest in this >country- and NOT with tax-payer tax breaks that they hoard as cash!! >Rather with some of the record breaking profits they stripped out of >this country over the last 7+ years. Taxes on the upper class SHOULD >be higher than those on the working class. THEY should carry the bulk >of the tax burden. I am so sick of the old line about them being >punished for being successful!! It boggles the mind that people who >have enough money to buy a small country from money they made off the >sweat and backs of the average American citizen actually resent paying >taxes. Well, it's only fair that those who paid the most taxes should >get the biggest tax breaks?? OK, so let's give the rich their tax >breaks, forgive oil companies billions upon billions owed to the >American citizens for drilling on public land, let them enjoy the >health-care made available from research paid for through grants paid >for by taxes paid by every American who ever worked and paid taxes. I >could go on for hours, but you get the point. >If the next president does not undo everything Bush screwed up. We are >screwed and you can watch that rocket ship fall from the sky and make >an economical crater with a bottomless pit. During the Bush >administration the two worst tragedies in my lifetime occurred. 9/11 >and Katrina. Bush used them to rape this country and the US Congress >let him.
On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>On May 16, 9:45 pm, nos...@nospam.nospam (Straydog) wrote:
>> Most of the articles I see in the recent issues of WSJ
>All stupid toothless American rednecks get their financial propaganda >from Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal and Fox News, or course.
>It's just common sense!
The editorial page of the WSJ is pure, undilluted robber-baronism but the line reporter articles are usually pretty good and -- compared to fanatical, dogmatic, biased mindsets -- seem to me to cover the data, trends, and situations quite well.
Although consensus should not be taken as evidence of truth, nevertheless the fact that the WSJ is one of the two only growing newspapers seems to indicate that people in general feel there is value in getting it.
indiaBPOking posts exclusively bad news about the USA and a while back posted only good news about India. Are you one of those guys who refuses to look at the whole picture?
On Fri, 16 May 2008 22:26:17 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote: >On Sat, 17 May 2008 02:45:06 GMT, nos...@nospam.nospam (Straydog) >wrote:
>>Tourism is up in the USA, and exports are still increasing, and our >>trade deficit is going down. Even the real estate market is >>stabilizing.
>LOL. The trade deficit is going down because we're buying less oil at >these prices and the recession is biting imports.
The articles say that the cause of the trade deficit going down is largely due to the exchange rate making purchases of US goods/services less expensive. I think this is correct. Energy use in the US is down slightly and the articles say that this is partly due to oil/gas price and some shift from SUV purchase to purchase of cars with better gas milage.
> The notion the real >estate market is stabilizing is a joke. You're seeign seasonal >variation, (more house starts and slaes in Aprl than January) not year >over year. Compare April 07 to April 08 (and for good measure match >both of htose to 06. >http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm >Click on the entries for tables.
I really don't have time to spend most of my day chasing every source of data and information.
>Housing starts are down about 30% year over year. and 60% over 06.
I appreciate that the articles discuss the housing sector in terms of a large number of factors besides "starts".
On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:51:43 -0700, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote: >On Sat, 17 May 2008 11:20:39 GMT, nos...@nospam.nospam (Straydog) >wrote:
>>> The notion the real >>>estate market is stabilizing is a joke. You're seeign seasonal >>>variation, (more house starts and slaes in Aprl than January) not year >>>over year. Compare April 07 to April 08 (and for good measure match >>>both of htose to 06. >>>http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm >>>Click on the entries for tables.
>>I really don't have time to spend most of my day chasing every source >>of data and information.
>In other words you wish to hold fast to your illusions and delusions. >The housing market is no where near stabilization.
Well, I'm telling you what my general impression is based on scanned WSJ articles and from a few other sources (eg. Business Week, and The Economist, which I also have subscriptions to).
>>>Housing starts are down about 30% year over year. and 60% over 06.
>>I appreciate that the articles discuss the housing sector in terms of >>a large number of factors besides "starts".
>You "appreciate" articles that say what you need to hear. I gave you >links directly to the statistics. They are evidently to real for you >to wish to consider. Your loss. reality awaits you.
What do you do, pick out the links that fit your particular preference to focus only on the negative news? I scan over WSJ articles that cover a lot of related sectors of the economy and that includes financing. Don't get me wrong, I am very sorry that the whole housing industry is in a big funk and lots of people are hurting. Buuuut, there is a lot more going on in the US economy than housing, and my general impression is that things could be a whole lot worse.
>I read and listen and listen and read and I keep hoping someone >somewhere will actually get to the root of our current situation. I >hear about froth in the housing market, a bubble in commodities, a >conundrum in this, a puzzlement in that. On and on. But, I still >haven't heard anyone actually address the real problem at the bottom >of our current economic crisis in this country. >Once long ago, in an economy far, far away... OK. OK. No drama. >I was born in the baby-boomers generation, near the end. During my >lifetime the world has changed in so many ways it's beyond belief. Sci- >Fi became reality and then reality doubled-down. >In 1974 a van came to my high school and 3/4 of it was a computer. >They demonstrated it's "power" and "abilities" and printed each of us >a calendar... :) Cute, huh? >This little known technology turned this country on it's head. On the >way up it gave birth to the YUPPIE. High tech produced a huge wave of >good paying middle class jobs. People in these jobs bought nice homes, >fancy cars and designer clothing. They bought into high tech >themselves. VCRs became DVDs TVs became big screen, hang it on the >wall 3" thick plasma giants, video games in every home, home PCs and >laptops, and anything we could imagine became available for our buying >pleasure. The demand for all the goodies these families wanted and >could easily afford made job opportunities for people working in >construction, the automotive industry, clothing, technology, retail >sales, etc, etc, etc. Then there was the restaurants and fast food >industry, (These high-teckers didn't cook, they ate out.) Vacations >and home decorating. Their good fortune created a whole country of >people who worked in support of the techies lifestyles and improved >the quality of living for those people too. So, what happened? >What happened... The middle class broke the golden rule, they started >moving up the financial ladder on a large scale in a big way- fast. >Too many started making too much money. They were on a rocket ship to >the sky and pulling the lower class up behind them in their back >draft. The rich were in danger of too much company. It was starting to >get crowed on the elevators up to the clouds. The insolence!! This >just could not be allowed. So, the powers that be showed them. They >outsourced the good paying, high tech jobs. Poof!! And then there were >few. >The corporations began to make really big bucks, record profits and >the rich were wallowing in it. They laughed and laughed and laughed. >Those arrogant geeks who thought they could rise to be one of them had >been struck down. The job market started slowing. Annual raises and >bonuses gave way to pay cuts or be fired and replaced. Wall Street was >doing great but Main Street was faltering. Thirty year olds still >living with their parents couldn't afford to live in a place of their >own. The economy was slipping but as long as the general public was >working 2-3 jobs per household and didn't have time to catch on, the >rich were raking in their losses. >The middle class had beautiful homes, fabulously expensive cars, >closets filled with high priced designer clothes, a TV, computer, >video game system and cable TV in every room and their jobs were >disappearing faster than they had been created. Their biggest assets? >Their homes. When the slip in the economy started, they were offered >equity lines of credit up to 110% of the value of their home. Their >paychecks were going down, the cost of living was going up but this >would all blow over and then when the economy came back they could pay >off the mortgages, credit cards, etc and all would be as it was. Then >came the froth in housing. The problem was not that a bunch of >irresponsible people got home loans they couldn't afford. It was that >no one told them they weren't going to be able to afford them after >all their jobs got outsourced to foreign countries and would never >come back. They got blind-sided. >Problem is, we still haven't seen just how deep this hole is going to >get. The jobs that sky-rocketed this economy are now in India, among >other countries where the pay is low, the working conditions are >deplorable and corporations and the super rich can continue to make >record breaking profits. >They stripped the middle class and picked their bones. But, they went >too far. Got too greedy. Wall Street took a big hit. Oops!! Hedge >funds went under. Oh, No!! That's, that's the rich... Gotta stop that. >Pumping millions, billions into the banking system. The Fed >guaranteeing loans. People are still being dumped out of their homes, >but, hey, at least Wall Street and the rich will be OK now. So, what >now? >What now... Until this government admits they let a dumb, red-neck >idiot (whose only goal was to impoverish and punish the arrogant >middle class and re-fund the rich) destroy this country through his >arrogant "I'm the decider" policies, nothing. We just keep sinking. If >they do step up and bite the bullet, admit the screw-ups instead of >trying to cover them up and go around them, we have a chance. Jobs >MUST be brought back. Corporations MUST be made to re-invest in this >country- and NOT with tax-payer tax breaks that they hoard as cash!! >Rather with some of the record breaking profits they stripped out of >this country over the last 7+ years. Taxes on the upper class SHOULD >be higher than those on the working class. THEY should carry the bulk >of the tax burden. I am so sick of the old line about them being >punished for being successful!! It boggles the mind that people who >have enough money to buy a small country from money they made off the >sweat and backs of the average American citizen actually resent paying >taxes. Well, it's only fair that those who paid the most taxes should >get the biggest tax breaks?? OK, so let's give the rich their tax >breaks, forgive oil companies billions upon billions owed to the >American citizens for drilling on public land, let them enjoy the >health-care made available from research paid for through grants paid >for by taxes paid by every American who ever worked and paid taxes. I >could go on for hours, but you get the point. >If the next president does not undo everything Bush screwed up. We are >screwed and you can watch that rocket ship fall from the sky and make >an economical crater with a bottomless pit. During the Bush >administration the two worst tragedies in my lifetime occurred. 9/11 >and Katrina. Bush used them to rape this country and the US Congress >let him.
Then a black senator decided to run for the presidency and promised to change the way the US was going. But another democrat decided to run for the same position and ignoring the lead of the first one continued to run expecting some type of miracle like the assassination of the black senator by the Kosher Nostra. The miracle happened and the senator that was in the second position was elected and everything continued as before until the people that controlled the U.S. economy moved to Canada and started a new cycle of the same procedure. And everything was back to "normal" but this time in a different country. Doesn't history repeat itself?
