Mostly developers here?
tony
to have mostly developer type consultants (advertising skills, btw, rather
than well-defined products/services). Are most of the participants here also
developers? Any people here with turn-key products, or services that don't
look like employee skillsets?
Tony
technoid
don't look like employee skillsets? Not sure what you mean. Most SMB can't
afford full-time staff, but if they could, they'd probably hire someone like
me - somewhat of a generalist with a focus on networking.
"tony" <tony...@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:%lXmf.30329$dO2....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
tony
"technoid" <rconne...@wowway.com> wrote in message news:HamdnYR1kcu...@wideopenwest.com...
> Not in ICCA, but I provide services - mostly SMB networking. Services that don't look like employee skillsets? Not sure
> what you mean. Most SMB can't afford full-time staff, but if they could, they'd probably hire someone like me - somewhat
> of a generalist with a focus on networking.
OK, that's what I do too. I have a feeling most here perform roles on projects
rather than having responsibility for complete projects (?). I don't provide
"auxiliary staffing" for technical projects led by the client or other firms.
By "services that look like employee skillsets", I meant when "consultants"
offer their skills to clients rather than well-defined services or solutions based
upon those skills.
I'm still wondering how many people here are more the "auxiliary staff" types
rather than the "solution provider" types. It would be a good poll if it could be had.
At this time, I'm thinking that the ICCA is mostly the former types (?).
Tony
Charles Calvert
<%lXmf.30329$dO2....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>:
>I just went to the ICCA site and noticed that the local chapter seems
>to have mostly developer type consultants (advertising skills, btw, rather
>than well-defined products/services).
Plenty of potential clients search for skill keywords (e.g. "PHP" or
"C++") so that's actually a decent strategy for finding projects.
>Are most of the participants here also developers?
I am. I don't know about "most", as most of the people who read this
group don't post regularly.
>Any people here with turn-key products,
I think that Mike Turco has or had some turn-key products. I don't
know about other folks.
>or services that don't look like employee skillsets?
Almost any service that could be described as consulting or
contracting could be done by an employee (and in fact companies like
IBM have quite a lot of employees who do exactly that). The real
distinction is not the work performed, but rather the relationship
between the parties.
I'd really like to see your well-defined list of products and
services. Care to post the URL for your web-site?
--
Charles Calvert
Moderator - alt.computer.consultants.moderated
Submission Address: ac...@celticwolf.net
Contact Address: accm...@celticwolf.net
Charles Calvert
<DlAnf.37026$tV6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>:
>
>"technoid" <rconne...@wowway.com> wrote in message news:HamdnYR1kcu...@wideopenwest.com...
>> Not in ICCA, but I provide services - mostly SMB networking. Services that don't look like employee skillsets? Not sure
>> what you mean. Most SMB can't afford full-time staff, but if they could, they'd probably hire someone like me - somewhat
>> of a generalist with a focus on networking.
>
>OK, that's what I do too. I have a feeling most here perform roles on projects
>rather than having responsibility for complete projects (?).
What is this feeling based on?
>I don't provide "auxiliary staffing" for technical projects led by
>the client or other firms.
Where is the line between an expert called in to handle one aspect of
a project (e.g. a database expert who designs a database structure
that is part of a larger project) and "auxiliary staffing"? Is it in
the level of skill? The amount of autonomy granted to each person?
>By "services that look like employee skillsets", I meant when "consultants"
>offer their skills to clients rather than well-defined services or solutions based
>upon those skills.
Can you give an example of a well-defined service or solution? How
about one that might satisfy a client who needs a custom application
written?
>I'm still wondering how many people here are more the "auxiliary staff" types
>rather than the "solution provider" types. It would be a good poll if it could be had.
>At this time, I'm thinking that the ICCA is mostly the former types (?).
Based on what?
tony
"Charles Calvert" <cb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hhmhq1hpf7ds9njl2...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:51:31 GMT, "tony" <tony...@myisp.net> wrote in
> <DlAnf.37026$tV6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>:
>
>>
>>"technoid" <rconne...@wowway.com> wrote in message news:HamdnYR1kcu...@wideopenwest.com...
>>> Not in ICCA, but I provide services - mostly SMB networking. Services that don't look like employee skillsets? Not sure
>>> what you mean. Most SMB can't afford full-time staff, but if they could, they'd probably hire someone like me - somewhat
>>> of a generalist with a focus on networking.
>>
>>OK, that's what I do too. I have a feeling most here perform roles on projects
>>rather than having responsibility for complete projects (?).
>
> What is this feeling based on?
The frequent sightings of ICCA meeting notices and reading of
profiles at the ICCA site.
>>I don't provide "auxiliary staffing" for technical projects led by
>>the client or other firms.
>
> Where is the line between an expert called in to handle one aspect of
> a project (e.g. a database expert who designs a database structure
> that is part of a larger project) and "auxiliary staffing"? Is it in
> the level of skill? The amount of autonomy granted to each person?
I tend to give the "solution provider" title to the people who have
responsibility for the overall solution (project plan/design etc) rather
than someone providing services for one task on the project. Not
that the latter is lesser of a service provider (just not a solution provider
in my mind: a service provider to the general contractor who has the
solution responsibility perhaps).
>>By "services that look like employee skillsets", I meant when "consultants"
>>offer their skills to clients rather than well-defined services or solutions based
>>upon those skills.
>
> Can you give an example of a well-defined service or solution?
See the above description and you'll be able to list a bunch of them.
>How
> about one that might satisfy a client who needs a custom application
> written?
Sure, that sounds right. It would be even to a higher degree if the
developer specialized in that type of application (Point-of-sale for
example). Even better if not delivering source code but rather
executables only. It would hard to call one a "solution provider" if
really the developer is only doing "break-fix" work but using
anything he can patch together in code to solve a problem (I think
I'm trying to say that the more it looks like shrink wrap product, the
more one has a product/solution rather than just a skillset to provide
services with). If the software isn't "productizeable", then I would
have to sway toward the moniker "service provider" (or in worse case,
"auxiliary staffing") rather than "solution provider" .
>
>>I'm still wondering how many people here are more the "auxiliary staff" types
>>rather than the "solution provider" types. It would be a good poll if it could be had.
>>At this time, I'm thinking that the ICCA is mostly the former types (?).
>
> Based on what?
Based upon reading the profiles there and the people I used to know
when I was a member.
Tony
tony
"Charles Calvert" <cb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:53mhq1lm75naclp6l...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 15:12:59 GMT, "tony" <tony...@myisp.net> wrote in
> <%lXmf.30329$dO2....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>:
> Almost any service that could be described as consulting or
> contracting could be done by an employee (and in fact companies like
> IBM have quite a lot of employees who do exactly that). The real
> distinction is not the work performed, but rather the relationship
> between the parties.
Well I make a distinction between service/skillset-only providers and
those who do R&D and actually produce products and solutions.
It's all good though if the goal is just to make money. The communities
are different though and the way the businesses operate. R&D for
instance: service providers acquire skills to provide services whereas
solution providers acquire skills to implement solutions. For service
providers, the skill comes first and is an end. For solution providers,
the solution determines what skills will be required and the skills are
just a means to an end. Example: C++ developer/service provider
offers programming services to clients. Point of sale solution provider
offers packaged software (and probably hardware too) product to clients.
C++ developer is "out of business" when technology paradigm shifts.
POS provider is robust against technology changes because his
product is the solution rather than just technology.
Tony