Online banking systems crash
Tom Moughan
CheckFree back-end systems for MS Money, Quicken have experienced
"intermittent" outages since Monday
By Bob Sullivan
MSNBC
April 28 - A computer glitch is preventing many consumers from using online
bill payment services through software such as Microsoft's Money or Intuit's
Quicken. The glitch has been frustrating customers since Sunday, when online
payment clearinghouse CheckFree Holdings Corp. started experiencing computer
problems. According to the company, 500,000 consumers from 20 banks around
the country might be prevented from paying their bills because of the
glitch.
THE PROBLEM STEMS from CheckFree's changeover to a new
transaction-processing system called Genesis, according to Terrie O'Hanlon,
senior vice president of corporate communications. O'Hanlon said CheckFree
began slowly switching its 350 member banks to the system six months ago,
and the company has no idea why trouble started this weekend. All 20 banks
on the new system are experiencing problems. U.S. Bancorp and Wells Fargo
are among those impacted, but CheckFree did not immediately disclose the
complete list of affected banks.
"We're working as diligently as possible to isolate the root cause of the
problem," O'Hanlon said. "This is disappointing, obviously, but we're
confident we'll identify the root cause and solve it." Consumers use
personal financial software such as Money or Quicken to pay bills online
through their personal bank. Banks outsource the payment services to
CheckFree - a process that is normally transparent to the consumer.
(Microsoft, the maker of Money, is a partner in MSNBC.) But when many
Quicken and Money users tried paying bills this week, their computers
returned an error message halfway through the process - leaving customers
wondering whether the transactions went through.
As the end of the month approaches, when many consumers pay their bills,
CheckFree says it does not know when its service might return to normal.
Complicating the troubleshooting - the problems are "intermittent," O'Hanlon
said. "This is not an outage, which would probably be easier to identify."
Consumers who receive an error message should just keep trying, she said.
She did not know how many consumers' transactions had failed, or what
percentage of transactions were being blocked by the glitch. But many the
problem appears widespread at Intuit. A Quicken customer support
representative told MSNBC, "As far as I know, it's affecting about every
Quicken customer trying to do some kind of online banking."
Repeated attempts by MSNBC to perform transactions using a U.S. Bancorp
account failed during the past 24 hours. The timing of the computer glitch
is unfortunate. Just Tuesday, MSNBC reported that Internet giant Yahoo! Inc.
is interested in acquiring the electronic commerce service supplier. Yahoo!
CEO Tim Koogle hinted at the possible acquisition at the Hambrecht and Quist
technology conference in San Francisco on Monday evening. Representatives
from U.S. Bancorp suggest consumers use the old-fashioned method - writing a
check - to pay immediately pending bills. But if electronic transactions
have already been initiated, and failed, there is a possibility of double
payment. "It's totally a CheckFree problem," said Joyce Peppin,
spokesperson for Minneapolis-based U.S. Bankcorp, which has about 100,000
online banking customers. She didn't know how many of those had tried and
failed to pay their bills online.
Andrew DeFaria
CheckFree back-end systems for MS Money, Quicken have experienced
"intermittent" outages since Monday
I've talked to somebody who knew about this new system. I'm not surprised they are having problems. I bet he isn't either.THE PROBLEM STEMS from CheckFree's changeover to a new transaction-processing system called Genesis,
On the plus side I just performed an online banking download with no problems at all (4/38/1999 9:27 PM PST). I didn't do any bill pays though.
And...@DeFaria.com http://www.defaria.com
Unofficial Quicken Web Page: http://www.defaria.com/Quicken
Newsgroup: news:alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
If it's too much work for you to filter spam,
it's too much work for me to fix your email address!
Robert G Browne
accepted early on in the month scheduled for payment in the first few
days of May? Also, if this has been happening as the story states, don't
you think that users should have bee e-mailed about the problem? This is
the first I've heard about it. Nothing like keeping things a secret!!
Bob
Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>
> Tom Moughan wrote:
>
> > CheckFree back-end systems for MS Money, Quicken have experienced
> > "intermittent" outages since Monday
> >
> > THE PROBLEM STEMS from CheckFree's changeover to a new
> > transaction-processing system called Genesis,
>
> I've talked to somebody who knew about this new system. I'm not
> surprised they are having problems. I bet he isn't either.
>
> On the plus side I just performed an online banking download with no
> problems at all (4/38/1999 9:27 PM PST). I didn't do any bill pays
> though.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew DeFaria
I wonder if this will affect payment on transactions transmitted and accepted early on in the month scheduled for payment in the first few days of May? Also, if this has been happening as the story states, don't you think that users should have bee e-mailed about the problem? This is the first I've heard about it. Nothing like keeping things a secret!!
In fact, due to a miscalculation on my part, I have a bunch of payments that I need to stop payments on (online repeating payments that is) and cannot submit them. I'm not hold with Checkfree now.
Brian M. Biggs
On the plus side I just performed an online banking download with no problems at all (4/38/1999 9:27 PM PST). I didn't do any bill pays though.
Since when do we have 38 days in April? And where did the last 10 days go? I must have been asleep! :-)
Later,
Brian
Andrew DeFaria
Robert G Browne wrote:I wonder if this will affect payment on transactions transmitted and accepted early on in the month scheduled for payment in the first few days of May? Also, if this has been happening as the story states, don't you think that users should have bee e-mailed about the problem? This is the first I've heard about it. Nothing like keeping things a secret!!I severely doubt that this would happen to transmitted payments. Seems the problem is in sending payment instructions, not executing them.In fact, due to a miscalculation on my part, I have a bunch of payments that I need to stop payments on (online repeating payments that is) and cannot submit them. I'm not hold with Checkfree now.
Andrew DeFaria
On the plus side I just performed an online banking download with no problems at all (4/38/1999 9:27 PM PST). I didn't do any bill pays though.Since when do we have 38 days in April? And where did the last 10 days go? I must have been asleep! :-)
Woodrow Sawyer
> CheckFree back-end systems for MS Money, Quicken have experienced
> "intermittent" outages since Monday
> By Bob Sullivan
> MSNBC
>
> April 28 - A computer glitch is preventing many consumers from using online
> bill payment services through software such as Microsoft's Money or Intuit's
> Quicken. The glitch has been frustrating customers since Sunday, when online
> payment clearinghouse CheckFree Holdings Corp. started experiencing computer
> problems. According to the company, 500,000 consumers from 20 banks around
> the country might be prevented from paying their bills because of the
> glitch. ...
Intermittent? ... Yeah. Right! ... I haven't been able to connect to Wells Fargo
via Quicken to do business since Friday of last week (4/23). I've called Wells
Fargo a number of times since then. They told me it was my "ISP's probelm". This
morning Wells Fargo owned up to the problem. I guess they are trying to do
damage control.
But wait! It gets worse. ... I have online accounts with other institutions. The
problem is that since I cannot connect with Wells Fargo, all other connections
are blocked; Quicken presents a modal dialog that tells me that I cannot do
business with anyone else until I complete the exchange with Wells Fargo!
I guess this shit just isn't ready for prime time. ... Lessee ... debits on the
left, credits on the right; assets = liabilities + owners equity. ... back to a
paper system for me. I've given Quicken 2 years to get it right and have had
problems every step of the way. Quicken has corrupted my database in such a way
that SuperValidate won't fix it; I cannot exchange transactions with Charles
Schwab without re-corrupting the database after using the fix recommended by
Quicken; the Quicken program is so quirky and fragile that I cannot imagine how
they have the balls to even offer it for sale. Their behavior borders on
criminal.
I don't suppose the rocket scientists at CheckFree did any risk assesment and
contengincy planning, then developed a back-off and recover plan when they
decided on their new whippy-snappy system. Well, maybe they did. ... They must
have tested it with the thoroughness they tested their fine new whippy-snappy
system. ... Oh well.
Nice try folks. I suppose GNUCash will be ready when I feel it is safe to go
back into the water, oh ... maybe 2Q2001. It'll be a cold day in hell before I
use an Intuit product ever again.
... I sort of wonder if the court cases related to this disaster will be done
before I retire? ... If I were Wells Fargo, I'd go for the throat. No prisoners.
There's more! The following is taken, without permission, from Wells Fargo's
web-page:
> Quicken® & Microsoft® Money
> Customers
>
> Fees to be Waived in May
>
> We apologize for the inconvenience we've caused
> our customers due to the intermittent outages that
> have occurred since Sunday, April 25th, and will be
> waiving monthly Online Banking and Bill Payment
> fees for Quicken and Microsoft Money customers in
> May. The outage problem arose after a scheduled
> service upgrade. Wells Fargo's Internet banking
> customers have been unaffected.
>
> Currently, we do not have a time estimate as to when
> Online Banking via Quicken and Microsoft Money
> will resume. A Wells Fargo team is working hard to
> fix the problem so we can restore uninterrupted
> service to affected customers as soon as possible.
>
> What can I do in the meantime?
>
> We're offering all affected customers -- through both
> Norwest and Wells Fargo online services -- the
> opportunity to access their accounts through the
> Wells Fargo Internet site until the problem is
> resolved. If you need immediate access to your
> accounts, you can access them directly through our
> website. Online Banking is free and in most cases
> you can view your accounts in minutes.
> ...
Andrew DeFaria
Intermittent? ... Yeah. Right! ... I haven't been able to connect to Wells Fargo via Quicken to do business since Friday of last week (4/23). I've called Wells Fargo a number of times since then. They told me it was my "ISP's probelm". This morning Wells Fargo owned up to the problem. I guess they are trying to do damage control.
But wait! It gets worse. ... I have online accounts with other institutions. The problem is that since I cannot connect with Wells Fargo, all other connections are blocked; Quicken presents a modal dialog that tells me that I cannot do business with anyone else until I complete the exchange with Wells Fargo!
I guess this shit just isn't ready for prime time
. ... Lessee ... debits on the left, credits on the right; assets = liabilities + owners equity. ... back to a paper system for me. I've given Quicken 2 years to get it right and have had
problems every step of the way. Quicken has corrupted my database in such a way that SuperValidate won't fix it; I cannot exchange transactions with Charles Schwab without re-corrupting the database after using the fix recommended by Quicken; the Quicken program is so quirky and fragile that I cannot imagine how they have the balls to even offer it for sale. Their behavior borders on criminal.
I don't suppose the rocket scientists at CheckFree did any risk assesment and contengincy planning, then developed a back-off and recover plan when they decided on their new whippy-snappy system. Well, maybe they did. ... They must have tested it with the thoroughness they tested their fine new whippy-snappy system. ... Oh well.
Nice try folks. I suppose GNUCash will be ready when I feel it is safe to go back into the water, oh ... maybe 2Q2001. It'll be a cold day in hell before I use an Intuit product ever again.
... I sort of wonder if the court cases related to this disaster will be done before I retire?
Rick Potts
>> But wait! It gets worse. ... I have online accounts with other institutions. The
>> problem is that since I cannot connect with Wells Fargo, all other connections are
>> blocked; Quicken presents a modal dialog that tells me that I cannot do business
>> with anyone else until I complete the exchange with Wells Fargo!
>
>See When using the new Online Banking I get OL-205. How to I fix this?
Doesn't work. Better suggestion: Click "No" to get through that dialog
box, then do a One Step Update. For some reason, doing a One Step
Update seems to clear the dialog box.
Norm Rapp
> account.
How does this work? What address does one use and how can one be
sure that your payments are being properly credited to your tax bill?
Andrew DeFaria
Talk about uninformed! I've heard tell that perhaps only one or two banks do online banking via OFX currently. Online investment download uses OFX (I think they need the power that it offers) but online banking, by and large, from the current set of online banks, just ain't there (yet). So GNUCash will implement OFX and then still not be able to talk to most banks. Doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.Working on != working. Besides, I go to www.gnucash.org and see nothing about OFX, online banking/bill pay and not even a search facility! Looked a little into the Documentation link, System Architecture, Features and nothing. I'm not saying that they aren't perhaps trying or about to implement OFX protocol (which, BTW, very few banks support anyway) but I'm not left real impressed by the web prowess or lack of it. And news items like:Uhhhh. How do you suppose Quicken connects to ANY financial institution? It is, by definition, OFX. If you think you have any credibility on the topic of Quicken, you just lost it with that most uninformed statement.
... From the GUNCash web site, System architecture, project goals:And, of course, you convienently ignore the unproffessionalness issue that I brought up. Typical really but I always wonder why such people don't understand why their pet software is not popular. You gotta address such issues and not let them slide by.Create a mechanism for obtaining data from multiple financial sources. Currently, GnuCash stores data in its own file format; it can also import Quicken(TM) QIF files. However, other sources & sinks of data might be stock-quote web sites, on-line banking interfaces such as OFX, access to SQL databases, such as those of Linux-Kontor, or CORBA interfaces, such as the GL Ledger submission to the OMG. It should be possible to have any of these at as data sources, and with the appropriate security mechanisms, it should also be possible for a user of GnuCash to manipulate the data at the other end.In particular, with respect to OFX & online banking, one should be able to think of GnuCash as a very special browser, capable of browsing financial web sites. Instead of talking HTML/HTTP, it would talk OFX or Gold with the remote server. Besides just statically viewing ones bank account, it should also allow bill payment and other account manipulation.
[about screen shots] Do not leave me with the impression that this is a serious product that I would want to entrust my personal
financial life to.
Andrew DeFaria
> As for income tax they now can directly take the money from your bank
> account.How does this work?
!
What address does one use
and how can one be sure that your payments are being properly credited to your tax bill?
(I really don't understand why you think this payment is really any different than any other payment you make).
Andrew DeFaria
The fix from The Unofficial Web page doesn't work, at least with Quicken Deluxe 99. The fix is supposed to eliminate the dialog box and the reminder that the last online session wasn't completed, but it doesn't work. The reminder stays, and the dialog box comes back whenThe fix states in step #4:
you try to go online.
When you see "Your last online connection was not completed..." hold down the Control key and Shift keys and select Yes. You should now see a message saying "Would you like to skip the resending of the old request...". Release the Control and Shift keys, then select OK.Step #5 starts with "You should now see a PIN screen..."
Does this not happen to you? Or are you saying that the next time you attempt to download from the financial institution you again get the error message? If the later then I would expect it to keep doing that for as long as the financial institution's server continues to have a problem. The fix described on my page was intended to get you past one bad financial institution's server so you can send your other financial instituations payments and downloads. It was not intended to fix some far away server through the Internet! Simply stated the is no way to do this.
The only way I could find to get out of session recovery was the One Step Update procedure I posted.I suspect that what really happened is that the server just happened to have gotten fixed by the time you tried the One Step Update.
David M Balcom
<And...@DeFaria.com> wrote:
}Talk about uninformed! I've heard tell that perhaps only one or two banks do
}online banking via OFX currently.
I have some experience on this topic! I was a beta tester for Quicken
99. After the beta testing ended last summer, I received my free
'final' version from Intuit but could not connect to my bank
(Commerce). I would get Ol-207 errors on sending payment
instructions/email. I had the same problem with beta 3 and had to
revert back to Quicken 98 prior to the end of the test period (but was
assured it would be fixed in the final release). After several
agonizing weeks working with the old ('98) and new version ('99) of
Quicken, I learned that I had mistakenly received the OFX version from
Intuit. Getting the proper version solved the problem.
Seems the OFX servers are/were still under development and would
connect unreliably (in my case NEVER)...
Later,
Dave
Rick Potts
>Rick Potts wrote:
>
>> Andrew DeFaria <And...@DeFaria.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> But wait! It gets worse. ... I have online accounts with other institutions. The
>> >> problem is that since I cannot connect with Wells Fargo, all other connections are
>> >> blocked; Quicken presents a modal dialog that tells me that I cannot do business
>> >> with anyone else until I complete the exchange with Wells Fargo!
>> >
>> >See When using the new Online Banking I get OL-205. How to I fix this?
>>
>> Doesn't work.
>
>What doesn't work? I'm curious. It is my understanding that if you get stuck at a
>particular financial institutions download you can Control-Shift click OK past it. Did
>that not work for you? What did it do instead?
>
The fix from The Unofficial Web page doesn't work, at least with
Quicken Deluxe 99. The fix is supposed to eliminate the dialog box and
the reminder that the last online session wasn't completed, but it
doesn't work. The reminder stays, and the dialog box comes back when
you try to go online.
The only way I could find to get out of session recovery was the One
Norm Rapp
What address does one useNone. You fill in a form giving your account number and bank's routing number.
Thanks for the tip.
(I really don't understand why you think this payment is really any different than any other payment you make).
Norm
Ann
>(I really don't understand why you think this payment is really any different
>than any other payment you make).
Because you're dealing with the IRS and may need to prove payment...an
EFT is easy to trace, true, if you work in the banking industry. But
if the IRS tries to say you didn't e-file, and they never received
payment, it's a lot easier to pull out your paper return with a copy
of your cancelled check than it is to prove an EFT went through.
Traditional thinking, Andrew. Most of us still play with paper and
don't trust digital business quite a much as you do.
--
Ann
annbal*at*thecia.net
Fix the from:
9 is the spam trap!
Woodrow Sawyer
> Woodrow Sawyer wrote:
>
>> > Working on != working. Besides, I go to www.gnucash.org and see
>> > nothing about OFX, online banking/bill pay and not even a search
>> > facility! Looked a little into the Documentation link, System
>> > Architecture, Features and nothing. I'm not saying that they aren't
>> > perhaps trying or about to implement OFX protocol (which, BTW, very
>> > few banks support anyway) but I'm not left real impressed by the
>> > web prowess or lack of it. And news items like:
>>
>> Uhhhh. How do you suppose Quicken connects to ANY financial
>> institution? It is, by definition, OFX. If you think you have any
>> credibility on the topic of Quicken, you just lost it with that most
>> uninformed statement.
>
> Talk about uninformed! I've heard tell that perhaps only one or two
> banks do online banking via OFX currently. Online investment download
> uses OFX (I think they need the power that it offers) but online
> banking, by and large, from the current set of online banks, just
> ain't there (yet). So GNUCash will implement OFX and then still not be
> able to talk to most banks. Doesn't sound like a winning strategy to
> me.
Disinformation again Andy? ...
So, examining c:\intuit\ofxlog.txt I can see the OFX transactions
between my machine and WellsFargo and Charles Schwab. So, if only a few
banks use OFX, then I don't care. WFB and Charles Schwab do and that's
why GNUCash will work just fine for me.
Uhhhh. ... Why are you bad-mouthing Intuit's competition? ...
In any case, Marketing 101 tell you that it generally is not good
practice to disparage your competitors and that if you have to do it, it
had better be true. Your own credibility is at risk otherwise. ... I
think the assembled multitude already questions your credibility.
Andrew DeFaria
Where do you get these forms?What address does one useNone. You fill in a form giving your account number and bank's routing number.
(I really don't understand why you think this payment is really any different than any other payment you make).
On all the other bills that I pay online I do not have to specify what the payment is forYou always specify what the payment is for. Usually it's via an account number associated with an online payee. It is assumed that the payment for that account is a payment to reduce the balance in the account. Other payee you are suppossed to enter your last name for the account number. That's supposed to be enough for the payee to recognize who you are and do the right thing. Again the assumption is your payment is to pay debts owed.
but on my income tax payments they ask that I write my social security number on the check as well as the name of the income tax form e.g. "1999 Form 1040-ES". I thought that this information could not be included on an online check.
Furthermore, when I mail a payment to the IRS I have to send a little form with it, presumably to allow the payment to be properly identified. If there are online forms that accomplish this then I certainly would like to know about them. Thanks for the information.
Have you ever actually used the net to see what your options are regarding
paying the IRS. Let's see, Ctrl-N for a new Netscape browser, Tab, type
"http://www.irs.gov", return, click on the still graphic "doorstop" first
page... Looky here, front page news! See complete
scoop (gee that was tough) 
!
Rick Potts
>> The fix from The Unofficial Web page doesn't work, at least with Quicken Deluxe 99. The
>> fix is supposed to eliminate the dialog box and the reminder that the last online session
>> wasn't completed, but it doesn't work. The reminder stays, and the dialog box comes back
>> when
>> you try to go online.
>
>The fix states in step #4:
>
> When you see "Your last online connection was not completed..." hold down the
> Control key and Shift keys and select Yes. You should now see a message saying
> "Would you like to skip the resending of the old request...". Release the Control
> and Shift keys, then select OK.
Doesn't work. No "Would you like to skip..." message. Was that tip
posted for Quicken 98? Or specifically for Quicken 99?
And no, it wasn't just dumb luck that the server happened to be back
up when I tried the One Step Update. For many of us (I bank at Wells
Fargo) the server problems continued all week. I had lots of time to
experiment with it. The server stayed down for a long time. <g>
Norm Rapp
this years paying of your IRS bill is not an online check rather you give them permission to pull from your account.1Furthermore, when I mail a payment to the IRS I have to send a little form with it, presumably to allow the payment to be properly identified. If there are online forms that accomplish this then I certainly would like to know about them. Thanks for the information.Well in all honesty I did have to send something to the IRS (actually Intuit's processing center). There is a totally paperless way of doing your taxes but you have to have received a form from the government stating that you have been filing electronically the past few years and you can file totally paperless this year. I believe you get an ECN number. I had one. I coulda done it that way but in the midst of April whilst doing my taxes I lost that ECN number so I had to sent the 8342 (or some such form #) in for my electronic filing.Have you ever actually used the net to see what your options are regarding paying the IRS. Let's see, Ctrl-N for a new Netscape browser, Tab, type "http://www.irs.gov", return, click on the still graphic "doorstop" first page... Looky here, front page news! See complete scoop (gee that was tough)
!
And...@DeFaria.com http://www.defaria.com
Unofficial Quicken Web Page: http://www.defaria.com/Quicken
Newsgroup: news:alt.comp.software.financial.quicken
If it's too much work for you to filter spam,
it's too much work for me to fix your email address!
Thanks for the above tip. I found the following useful information
at the "complete scoop " site that you directed me to. I am copying it
here in case anyone else is interested.
Q. Is it possible to pay estimated payments using a credit card?
A. No. However, you may use the Electronic Federal Tax Payment System
(EFTPS) to make estimated payments by automatic withdrawal from your checking
or savings account (Direct Debit). This involves enrollment in the system
and a
waiting period of two to four weeks before a payment can be made. You can
call
1-800-945-8400 or 1-800-555-4477 for enrollment details.
Andrew DeFaria
> Talk about uninformed! I've heard tell that perhaps only one or two
> banks do online banking via OFX currently. Online investment download
> uses OFX (I think they need the power that it offers) but online
> banking, by and large, from the current set of online banks, just
> ain't there (yet). So GNUCash will implement OFX and then still not be
> able to talk to most banks. Doesn't sound like a winning strategy to
> me.
Perhaps. I did say "I've heard tell" didn't I?Disinformation again Andy? ...
So, examining c:\intuit\ofxlog.txt I can see the OFX transactions between my machine and WellsFargo and Charles Schwab.
So, if only a few banks use OFX, then I don't care. WFB and Charles Schwab do and that's why GNUCash will work just fine for me.
Uhhhh. ... Why are you bad-mouthing Intuit's competition? ...
In any case, Marketing 101 tell you that it generally is not good practice to disparage your competitors
and that if you have to do it, it had better be true. Your own credibility is at risk otherwise. ... I think the assembled multitude already questions your credibility.