Does Intuit/Quicken really have us over a barrel
n...@emailreply.please
there any other program that can read Quicken files (I don't want to
loose existing work) and can download account information from banks and
credit card companies?
Andrew DeFaria
Quicken is discontinuing support and functionality for Quicken 2005. Is there any other program that can read Quicken files (I don't want to loose existing work) and can download account information from banks and credit card companies?
Andrew DeFaria
The big difference between sex for money and sex for free Is that sex for money usually costs a lot less!
Stubby
"cha...@earthlink.net" <n...@emailreply.please> wrote in message
news:13r9p8j...@corp.supernews.com...
You probably don't want to lose your work either.
I have always wondered how the Quicken database format and encryption has
gone uncracked all these years. It changes every year, but that probably
means that the key is the release date. Intuit has released programs over
the years that could dip into the database and pull out numbers. TurboTax
is one. These programs start up very quickly so I'm sure they don't read
through the entire file. It must be simple, but it has escaped all the
hackers!
chas
> cha...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>> Quicken is discontinuing support and functionality for Quicken 2005.
>> Is there any other program that can read Quicken files (I don't want
>> to loose existing work) and can download account information from
>> banks and credit card companies?
>
> Have you tried Quicken 2006? ;-)
> --
> The big difference between sex for money and sex for free Is that sex
> for money usually costs a lot less!
Bernie
It will continue to work. You will no longer get bug fixes, but if you
haven't encountered a bug in the program by now there is a very high
probability that you won't in the future.
You will no longer receive downloads of stock prices or stock news. You
will have to input stock prices yourself if you want them, but you can
do that.
And of course Intuit has given you two or three alternatives since you
purchased the license to the 2005 version.
Andrew DeFaria
geoff
speed here is like 5 mbps.
Other places that have competition, high speed is more like 15 mbps and the
cost is lower.
--g
chas
We must have read the notice differently. Here is an extract.
Q. What does the Quicken Service Discontinuation Plan mean to you?
A. It means that after April 30, 2008, online services (such as
downloading financial data from your bank, credit card accounts, or
investment accounts) and live technical support will no longer be made
available through Quicken 2005.
Now to me that means you can't really say "It will continue to work". I
has no value to me if I can't use it with my bank account.
Sure they gave me a couple of chances to upgrade. Now, since I didn't
take advantage of the "chances", I am being forced to.
Andrew DeFaria
The problem is lack of competition. My area uses time warner cable and high speed here is like 5 mbps.
Other places that have competition, high speed is more like 15 mbps and the cost is lower.
geoff
Andrew DeFaria
Bernie wrote:
On 2/14/2008 7:04 PM, cha...@earthlink.net wrote:We must have read the notice differently. Here is an extract.
Quicken is discontinuing support and functionality for Quicken 2005. Is there any other program that can read Quicken files (I don't want to loose existing work) and can download account information from banks and credit card companies?It will continue to work. You will no longer get bug fixes, but if you haven't encountered a bug in the program by now there is a very high probability that you won't in the future.
You will no longer receive downloads of stock prices or stock news. You will have to input stock prices yourself if you want them, but you can do that.
And of course Intuit has given you two or three alternatives since you purchased the license to the 2005 version.
Q. What does the Quicken Service Discontinuation Plan mean to you?
A. It means that after April 30, 2008, online services (such as downloading financial data from your bank, credit card accounts, or investment accounts) and live technical support will no longer be made available through Quicken 2005.
Now to me that means you can't really say "It will continue to work".
Quicken 2005 will indeed continue to work in large part. What will not work is online downloads from your bank. So yes it can be said that it will continue to work!
I has no value to me if I can't use it with my bank account.
Granted online transaction download may be important to you. It's important to me and one of the main reasons I pick a bank. But to say that Quicken provides no other value except online transaction download is a stretch at best. If online transaction download is that important to you then why did you wait 3 years to contemplate updating your software? If online transaction download is that important to you then isn't it more important that the umpteen bucks it'd cost you to upgrade? And if it isn't then STFU!
Sure they gave me a couple of chances to upgrade.
Now, since I didn't take advantage of the "chances", I am being forced to.
Andrew DeFaria
AMNESIA: condition that enables a woman who has gone through labor to have sex again.
John Pollard
> Christ, bud . . . . why the rant?
Andrew doesn't need any help; but I agree with him. Asking the
question as you have demonstrates that you have entered a
discussion in which you have nothing to offer.
> Quicken has never been a top-shelf piece of software and
> people have
> and continue to have problems with it.
What the hell is a "top-shelf piece of software"? And how in
the world did you become the guru who could make such decisions?
> And some people get pissed at
> that. Moreso if indeed they do follow the upgrade circuit and
> run
> into continual problems. It's always been a senstitive topic
> . . . .
> whether Intuit or MS Money. It doesn't really matter which of
> the
> two. And both of those companies have figured out how to make
> this a
> very nice cash cow.
You clearly do not know what you are talking about.
Quicken has an 80% share of the market ... that doesn't leave
much for Microsoft. But MS has no excuse for not providing a
better product ... they have more than enough resources to
create a competetive product. The market has spoken: and the
market proves you don't know what you're talking about.
And I bet neither company is making any fortune from their
"personal financial management" products: Intuit makes less than
17% (and most likely, considerably less than 17%) of their
revenue from Quicken.
> Just wish they would put that degree of thought
> into making bug free software.
Just wish you had something truly informed to say on the
subject. You clearly do not know anything about developing
software for the personal financial market ... if you know
anything at all about developing any product.
Sittiing around in your easy chair and pretending that someone
else can, and should, provide you exactly what you want, for
exactly the price you want to pay, is the sign of a person who
is unable to take responsibility for themselves. A person who
thinks their problems are always caused by someone else ...
despite the fact that they have no idea how to do any better
than that "someone else".
What you better do is thank your lucky stars that Intuit (and
Microsoft) continue to provide their PFM products, because it's
very clear that you couldn't replace them with any other
product, and you couldn't create a product of your own.
--
John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
Please reply to newsgroup
John Pollard
> By the way, your suggestion earlier in the day didn't work.
The place for this comment is in the thread where the discussion
exists ... so others can benefit from your "insights".
> Much too sensitive about software issues . . . . . .
No: you are too anxious to speak on subjects about which you
have no knowledge.
And, as in my previous comment, it matters whether others who
might read the posts here will be well informed.
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> Q. What does the Quicken Service Discontinuation Plan mean to you?
>
> A. It means that after April 30, 2008, online services (such as
> downloading financial data from your bank, credit card accounts, or
> investment accounts) and live technical support will no longer be made
> available through Quicken 2005.
>
> Now to me that means you can't really say "It will continue to work". I
> has no value to me if I can't use it with my bank account.
> Sure they gave me a couple of chances to upgrade. Now, since I didn't
> take advantage of the "chances", I am being forced to.
As am I. To make up for the screwing I'm taking from Intuit, I cancelled my
subscription to TurboTax and used an online service this year for my income
taxes, Taxslayer.com. For a few pennies less than $20, I got my federal return
along with state returns for both Carolinas filed electronically. I received my
tax refunds about three weeks ago.
They've lost me forever with Turbotax. One good screwing deserves another.
What a sleazy outfit. I cancelled my subscription three weeks before they
shipped and they shipped Turbotax anyway, then tried to hit my credit card. Too
bad. I stopped payment and have free copies of Turbotax that I don't need.
Maybe I'll post them on Pirate's Bay.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
geoff
Hank Arnold (MVP)
>
> What you better do is thank your lucky stars that Intuit (and
> Microsoft) continue to provide their PFM products, because it's
> very clear that you couldn't replace them with any other
> product, and you couldn't create a product of your own.
>
I just love to see these rants each year when Intuit drops the 3+ year
old versions for on-line support. It amazes me how people seem to think
that $40 should get them financial software that will work *FOREVER*....
For crying out loud, we're talking about $10 - 15 per year for some
pretty sophisticated software!!!
BTW, many of the rants are about how they can't get stock quotes and
download from financial firms. Yahoo! Finance still provides downloading
of quotes in CSV format,(still supported by Q08). Just about every
credit card, bank and brokerage firm supports downloading transaction
information to Q. You may lose the "One Click Update" feature. but you
can still get the information pretty easily....
--
Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP
Windows Server - Directory Services
geoff
> versions for on-line support. It amazes me how people seem to think that
> $40 should get them financial software that will work *FOREVER*....
Using that as a basis, why does windows work beyond say 3 years? What about
cars, should they not be designed to disable and/or break after 3 years?
Sorry, do not buy it.
--g
Hank
disable after 3 years.
Don't be such a cheapskate. You get what you pay for!
Ken Abrams
"Hank Arnold (MVP)" <ras...@aol.com> wrote
> It amazes me how people seem to think that $40 should get them financial
> software that will work *FOREVER*.... For crying out loud, we're talking
> about $10 - 15 per year for some pretty sophisticated software!!!
>
If you have no need for the more "advanced" features, then it will
effectively work forever.........barring other major changes with the box
you are running it on.
I've been using Q since a dos version about 1995 or so. Have only changed
twice and both times that was because my version was pre-loaded OEM and I
couldn't (easily) port it to a new box. I would be happily running the 1999
version were it not for that problem.
I have to grin a bit when someone with one or two "simple" accounts gets all
in a huff when they can't download their transactions anymore. The energy
they put into the rant would be better spent just entering their
transactions by hand. AFAIK, that has always worked and doesn't "expire" in
3 years! ;-)
Andrew DeFaria
> And armed with this wonderfully insightful knowledge> you're ready to jump full fledged into the market and> make a mint right?First, I do not know what 'make a mint' means
and secondly having a bad day?
Andrew DeFaria
Andrew DeFaria
Some people seem to forget that online transaction download was not always offered as an option at all! And still we managed. Matter of fact I hear rumor that at one time Quicken and indeed even computers didn't exist. I know, it's tough to believe....Ok granddad and also phones had cranks on them . . .
> Nobody's holding a fucking gun to your head!Time to check your prescription list dude.
Of course you missed the point, which was that online transaction downloading is not an essential component for Quicken to work.
Andrew DeFaria
If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?
Andrew DeFaria
I just love to see these rants each year when Intuit drops the 3+ year old versions for on-line support. It amazes me how people seem to think that $40 should get them financial software that will work *FOREVER*.... For crying out loud, we're talking about $10 - 15 per year for some pretty sophisticated software!!!
Andrew DeFaria
Monroe wrote:
Christ, bud . . . . why the rant?
Andrew doesn't need any help; but I agree with him.
Quicken has an 80% share of the market ... that doesn't leave much for Microsoft. But MS has no excuse for not providing a better product ... they have more than enough resources to create a competetive product. The market has spoken: and the market proves you don't know what you're talking about.
And I bet neither company is making any fortune from their "personal financial management" products: Intuit makes less than 17% (and most likely, considerably less than 17%) of their revenue from Quicken.
Sittiing around in your easy chair and pretending that someone else can, and should, provide you exactly what you want, for exactly the price you want to pay, is the sign of a person who is unable to take responsibility for themselves. A person who thinks their problems are always caused by someone else ... despite the fact that they have no idea how to do any better than that "someone else".
What you better do is thank your lucky stars that Intuit (and Microsoft) continue to provide their PFM products, because it's very clear that you couldn't replace them with any other product, and you couldn't create a product of your own.
Andrew DeFaria
Christ, bud . . . . why the rant?
Quicken has never been a top-shelf piece of software and people have and continue to have problems with it.
And some people get pissed at that.
Moreso if indeed they do follow the upgrade circuit and run into continual problems.
It's always been a senstitive topic . . . . whether Intuit or MS Money. It doesn't really matter which of the two. And both of those companies have figured out how to make this a very nice cash cow. Just wish they would put that degree of thought into making bug free software.You obviously know nothing about software! No software, I repeat not on piece of software, is bug free. And you obviously are not even on topic. The topic here wasn't even about buggy software - it was about discontinued software. And not even really about that but discontinued service.
geoff
Ken Abrams
"geoff" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote
>There are others to respond to but it is more fun responding to you. You
>seem so high strung about this >and you got the sand bags up defending your
>position.
Two things:
Without a quote or other reference, it is not possible to tell exactly who
you are referring to.
AND
While some groups seem to thrive on goading others into sensless arguements,
this is not (usually) one of them.
I'd prefer to keep it that way.
geoff
response, me.
> While some groups seem to thrive on goading others into sensless
> arguements,
He stated his opinion and I disagree with him, however, he seems to love to
repeat himself over and over. He can say the same things as many times as
he wants, it still doesn't fly.
--g
Ken Abrams
"geoff" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote
>He can say the same things as many times as he wants, it still doesn't fly.
>
I would say that he is not the only one with an ego problem............but I
won't because that really accomplishes nothing useful.
Calab
"Hank Arnold (MVP)" <ras...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:47b81df5$0$14669$607e...@cv.net...
> John Pollard wrote:
>>
>> What you better do is thank your lucky stars that Intuit (and Microsoft)
>> continue to provide their PFM products, because it's very clear that you
>> couldn't replace them with any other product, and you couldn't create a
>> product of your own.
>>
>
> I just love to see these rants each year when Intuit drops the 3+ year old
> versions for on-line support. It amazes me how people seem to think that
> $40 should get them financial software that will work *FOREVER*.... For
> crying out loud, we're talking about $10 - 15 per year for some pretty
> sophisticated software!!!
My rant isn't that I expect it to work forever. It's that I expect the new
software to be at least as good as the old software - which it clearly
ISN'T.
I'd rather pay the same money just to get another three years out of my old
program.
Por...@nospam.invalid
>Quicken is discontinuing support and functionality for Quicken 2005. Is
>there any other program that can read Quicken files (I don't want to
>loose existing work) and can download account information from banks and
>credit card companies?
Sorry, I can't answer your question(s). But I have one of my own.
Am I the only Quicken user that prefers to NOT download their
Bank/Broker/CC data? I mean, by doing that, don't you eliminate the
whole point of the "Reconcile" function? I like to know my
bank/broker/CC hasn't screwed up and reconciling my account(s) each
month is the way I do that. It only takes a minute. And please don't
tell me they don't make mistakes. The reason I know they screw up is
because I *don't* just download their numbers without reconciling them
to mine.
Or maybe I'm missing something?
Port
pyotr filipivich
<mys...@csd.ca> wrote on Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:41:35 GMT in
alt.comp.software.financial.quicken :
Hear, hear.
I found Q2005 so useful, that in 2006 I found nothing better.
Which is what I've been using since then - nothing.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Monotheism, someone has said, offers two simple axioms:
1) There is a God.
2) It's not you.
geoff
Yep, I agree, you done now or you have some more points to make?
--g
DrumStick
>> I would say that he is not the only one with an ego problem
> Yep, I agree, you done now or you have some more points to make?
> --g
He may not but after this, "zinger" I think you call them, I have one
point to make to you....
<PLONK>
Andrew
> On 14 Feb 08 wrote:
> Am I the only Quicken user that prefers to NOT download their
> Bank/Broker/CC data? I mean, by doing that, don't you eliminate the
> whole point of the "Reconcile" function? I like to know my
> bank/broker/CC hasn't screwed up and reconciling my account(s) each
> month is the way I do that. It only takes a minute.
> Port
I download all my transactions, but have a series of 'canned' reports
organized by how the paperwork comes to me at the end of each month by FI.
That way, I can easily see if my Q numbers match the paper numbers. Best of
both worlds; I don't have to enter a series of digits (with purchasing of
fractional shares of dividend stocks each month, that can lead to errors
rather easily...). As Ronnie once said, "Trust, but verify"!
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Regards -
- Andrew
chas
chas
> chas wrote:
>
>> Bernie wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/14/2008 7:04 PM, cha...@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quicken is discontinuing support and functionality for Quicken
>>>> 2005. Is there any other program that can read Quicken files (I
>>>> don't want to loose existing work) and can download account
>>>> information from banks and credit card companies?
>>>
>>> you haven't encountered a bug in the program by now there is a very
>>> high probability that you won't in the future.
>>>
>>> You will no longer receive downloads of stock prices or stock news.
>>> You will have to input stock prices yourself if you want them, but
>>> you can do that.
>>>
>>> And of course Intuit has given you two or three alternatives since
>>> you purchased the license to the 2005 version.
>>
>> We must have read the notice differently. Here is an extract.
>> Q. What does the Quicken Service Discontinuation Plan mean to you?
>>
>> A. It means that after April 30, 2008, online services (such as
>> downloading financial data from your bank, credit card accounts, or
>> investment accounts) and live technical support will no longer be made
>> available through Quicken 2005.
>>
>> Now to me that means you can't really say "It will continue to work".
>
> often, you would have noticed that Bernie said nothing about online
> services 'cept to say that you'll have to enter stock prices by hand.
>
> Quicken 2005 will indeed continue to work in large part. What will not
> work is online downloads from your bank. So yes it can be said that it
> will continue to work!
>
>> I has no value to me if I can't use it with my bank account.
>
> always offered as an option at all! And still we managed. Matter of fact
> I hear rumor that at one time Quicken and indeed even computers didn't
> exist. I know, it's tough to believe....
>
> important to me and one of the main reasons I pick a bank. But to say
> that Quicken provides no other value except online transaction download
> is a stretch at best. If online transaction download is that important
> to you then why did you wait 3 years to contemplate updating your
> software? If online transaction download is that important to you then
> isn't it more important that the umpteen bucks it'd cost you to upgrade?
> And if it isn't then STFU!
>
>> Sure they gave me a couple of chances to upgrade.
>
>
>> Now, since I didn't take advantage of the "chances", I am being
>> forced to.
>
> or hell, the way we used to do it with paper and pencil. You ain't being
> forced to do shit! You simply value Quicken more than you do the
> alternative but instead of simply understanding that, weighing the
> options and deciding whether or not it's worth it for you to part with
> your money to get the functionality you like to bitch. Heard it
> thousands of times. You have a few options. Pay up and update. Switch to
> software you think is better. Write your own. Or go back to a manual
> method. Your choice - you ain't forced to do anything. This America and
> you are free to do what you please. We outlawed slavery in 1865 son! Geeze!
> --
> Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
> AMNESIA: condition that enables a woman who has gone through labor to
> have sex again.
Thank you for prompting me to find out how to use the filter feature on
my email program.
Andrew DeFaria
You need to switch your reader to thread view, there is a posting and one response, me.
Andrew DeFaria
There's very little advice in men's magazines, because men think, I know what I'm doing. Just show me somebody naked. - Jerry Seinfeld
Andrew DeFaria
My rant isn't that I expect it to work forever. It's that I expect the new software to be at least as good as the old software - which it clearly ISN'T.
Andrew DeFaria
When I am asked, "What do you think of our audience?" I answer, "I know two kinds of audiences only--one coughing, and one not coughing." - Arthur Schnabel
Andrew DeFaria
Sorry, I can't answer your question(s). But I have one of my own. Am I the only Quicken user that prefers to NOT download their Bank/Broker/CC data? I mean, by doing that, don't you eliminate the whole point of the "Reconcile" function? I like to know my bank/broker/CC hasn't screwed up and reconciling my account(s) each month is the way I do that. It only takes a minute. And please don't tell me they don't make mistakes. The reason I know they screw up is because I *don't* just download their numbers without reconciling them to mine. Or maybe I'm missing something?
On the plus side, when reconciliation time comes around it's usually a snap.
Andrew DeFaria
You have to stay in shape. My mother started walking five miles a day when she was 60. She's 97 now and we have no idea where she is.
Andrew DeFaria
I download all my transactions, but have a series of 'canned' reports organized by how the paperwork comes to me at the end of each month by FI. That way, I can easily see if my Q numbers match the paper numbers. Best of both worlds; I don't have to enter a series of digits (with purchasing of fractional shares of dividend stocks each month, that can lead to errors rather easily...).
Yet in order to do 1-5 transactions a month or a week you would be incurring a lot of investment expenses! I mean each time you send a check to some broker then tell them to buy stocks on your behalf, doesn't it cost you a certain amount of money? I mean let's say I want to sock away say $50 a week. But it costs me what like $5-$10 each trade or roughly 10-20% just to invest! So I wait instead and do it monthly ($200 with $5-$10 being much less percentage wise). But then I only have 12 transactions. Hell I can just enter that by hand!
Or if I was substantial amounts weekly (like $200-$500) then hell I'd probably just pay somebody to handle my investing transaction if I had that much money!
Now there may be some advantage to online investment download in that it verifies what you've entered to what your broker thinks happened. However I find that way too often the accounting system the broker uses is way different than Quicken and things don't match up. Trying to keep track of investments is a nightmare and brokerage firms make it no easier (refer to the link above - I have more horror stories but I've stopped documenting them).
So how does utilize Online Investment Download to their advantage?
Andrew DeFaria
Thank you for prompting me to find out how to use the filter feature on my email program.
geoff
> point to make to you....
>
> <PLONK>
Works for me . . .
--g
geoff
Bernie
>> I just love to see these rants each year when Intuit drops the 3+ year old
>> versions for on-line support. It amazes me how people seem to think that
>> $40 should get them financial software that will work *FOREVER*....
>
> cars, should they not be designed to disable and/or break after 3 years?
>
> Sorry, do not buy it.
>
>
>
Windows works beyond three years n the same way that Quicken works
beyond three years (although the length of time may be different).
Microsoft discontinues support for older releases of Windows after a
period of time. Windows still works, and you are unlikely to encounter
a new bug, but just as in Quicken. When new hardware comes out the
chances are good that the old operating system will not support the new
hardware. When new application software comes out, it may not work with
the old operating system. You get to choose what you want and how you
want to spend your money.
And with cars, although your car will continue to work if you maintain
it well, eventually parts will no longer be available for it. I believe
manufacturers keep parts on hand for about seven years.
Bernie
all, and yes, I think that perhaps you have missed something.
Downloading transactions and balances from banks/brokers/credit cards
simplifies and speeds up reconciliation.
Of course if ALL you do is download transactions then there is nothing
to reconcile against. If you enter transactions manually, daily, weekly
or monthly, then each time you download you quickly get to do an
"interim" reconciliation. I find that very useful. Then when you get a
statement from the financial institution reconciliation should take only
a few seconds!
Of course some people do think that mistakes are so rare and so
insignificant that it isn't worth entering transactions yourself and
having them compared to the downloaded transactions. That isn't my
preference, but that is why we have freedom of choice.
Bernie
Bernie
> Andrew wrote:
>> I download all my transactions, but have a series of 'canned' reports
>> organized by how the paperwork comes to me at the end of each month by
>> FI. That way, I can easily see if my Q numbers match the paper
>> numbers. Best of both worlds; I don't have to enter a series of digits
>> (with purchasing of fractional shares of dividend stocks each month,
>> that can lead to errors rather easily...).
> You mention fractional shares and stocks which leads me to the following
> question: Of what good is online investment download? Partly I ask
> because of Online Investing Download Problems
> downloads to be useful one would need to have a fair amount of
> transactions happening. I mean why bother if you do 1-5 transactions a
> year?
>
> Yet in order to do 1-5 transactions a month or a week you would be
> incurring a lot of investment expenses! I mean each time you send a
> check to some broker then tell them to buy stocks on your behalf,
> doesn't it cost you a certain amount of money? I mean let's say I want
> to sock away say $50 a week. But it costs me what like $5-$10 each trade
> or roughly 10-20% just to invest! So I wait instead and do it monthly
> ($200 with $5-$10 being much less percentage wise). But then I only have
> 12 transactions. Hell I can just enter that by hand!
>
> Or if I was substantial amounts weekly (like $200-$500) then hell I'd
> probably just pay somebody to handle my investing transaction if I had
> that much money!
>
> Now there may be some advantage to online investment download in that it
> verifies what you've entered to what your broker thinks happened.
> However I find that way too often the accounting system the broker uses
> is way different than Quicken and things don't match up. Trying to keep
> track of investments is a nightmare and brokerage firms make it no
> easier (refer to the link above - I have more horror stories but I've
> stopped documenting them).
>
> So how does utilize Online Investment Download to their advantage?
> --
> I(nternal) R(evenue) S(ervice): We've got what it takes to take what
> you've got.
There are certainly different investing philosophies. One that I've
followed, and had reinforced by The Motley Fool, is to not do trades in
amounts like $500 because the brokerage fees are too high a percentage
of the transaction. Better probably to let your account grow to say
$2,000 before making an investment. In the mean time earn interest on
the cash that you are saving up.
But the question was what value is there to investment downloads,
especially for small traders. I'd say marginal value if all you do is
trade and occasionally receive dividends. Even then, if you are
entering your transaction manually and downloading periodically from
your broker, then you have something to easy and quickly reconcile,
validating your position very quickly.
But if you have your dividends reinvested, which is a very good
strategy, then downloading becomes a bit more significant and convenient.
Bernie
Hank Arnold (MVP)
>> I just love to see these rants each year when Intuit drops the 3+ year old
>> versions for on-line support. It amazes me how people seem to think that
>> $40 should get them financial software that will work *FOREVER*....
>
> Using that as a basis, why does windows work beyond say 3 years? What about
> cars, should they not be designed to disable and/or break after 3 years?
>
> Sorry, do not buy it.
>
> --g
>
>
Can I be there when you rive that $15 car off the lot?? ;-)
Windows works beyond 3 years because you pay a lot more for it...
--
Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP
Windows Server - Directory Services
Hank Arnold (MVP)
OK, this thread has finally reached the "Ignore" level.... :-)
Andrew
-------------------------------------------------------------
Regards -
"Andrew DeFaria" <And...@DeFaria.com> wrote in message news:47b8ed10$0$3567$815e...@news.qwest.net...
Andrew DeFaria
There are certainly different investing philosophies. One that I've followed, and had reinforced by The Motley Fool, is to not do trades in amounts like $500 because the brokerage fees are too high a percentage of the transaction. Better probably to let your account grow to say $2,000 before making an investment. In the mean time earn interest on the cash that you are saving up.
But the question was what value is there to investment downloads, especially for small traders.
I'd say marginal value if all you do is trade and occasionally receive dividends. Even then, if you are entering your transaction manually and downloading periodically from your broker, then you have something to easy and quickly reconcile, validating your position very quickly.
But if you have your dividends reinvested, which is a very good strategy, then downloading becomes a bit more significant and convenient.
Andrew DeFaria
Dividend reinvestments (mutual funds and some individual stocks) across many family members yields a LOT of transactions (over a hundred) - and they're all without any brokerage fee.
Congratulations for reaching that high of investing whereas you are getting a lot of dividend reinvestment transactions! I don't have that many... :-(
All my trades to portfolio allocation are done within my 401K so there's no fees for that either. Only occasion fee I pay is when I actually buy or sell an individual stock which is not often as I'm a fairly long term type of guy.
Q and all my accounts line up pretty well. On occasion, I find that the closing prices of my individual stocks do not match the price stated on the monthly brokerage statement, so that does need to be adjusted occasionally, but usually everything else is within a cent.
Downloading does save me a lot of time....I've used Q long enough to remember having to manually enter all this stuff as it came in the mail, and I never want to go back to those days.
JimH
I download all of my accounts, and examine each transaction when it is
downloaded. That is the way the download function works. The
transactions appear in a smaller window below the register window. You
can accept them all or each one individually, or you can edit them if
needed.
This lets me catch potential problems quicker. It adds insurance that if
someone stole a credit card number, I'd be aware of it very quickly. It
let me catch a double charge to my credit card by my dentists office on
the day after it occurred. It also prevents typographical errors which
used to account for almost all of the lost time during reconciliation.
In addition, it keeps me informed of dividends, splits, and any other
transactions that I didn't initiate.
I also reconcile my accounts when the statement arrives. All of my
accounts download in less than 3 minutes a day. Reconciliation which
used to occasionally be painful usually takes two minutes or less.
I've been using financial software since MYM in the late 80's. I think
it was about $150.00 at the time. I've done manual entry, and my
finances were a lot simpler then. With the addition of investment
accounts, IRA's, and multiple bank accounts, I'd definitely not want to
go back to manual entry.
---
Jim
Oilcan
"Andrew DeFaria" <And...@DeFaria.com> wrote in message news:47b8ed10$0$3567$815e...@news.qwest.net...
Calab
>>> old versions for on-line support. It amazes me how people seem to think
>>> that $40 should get them financial software that will work *FOREVER*....
>>> For crying out loud, we're talking about $10 - 15 per year for some
>>> pretty sophisticated software!!!
>>
>> My rant isn't that I expect it to work forever. It's that I expect the
>> new software to be at least as good as the old software - which it
>> clearly ISN'T.
>>
>> I'd rather pay the same money just to get another three years out of my
>> old program.
> OK, this thread has finally reached the "Ignore" level.... :-)
Hard to argue with the truth.
Bernie
> Bernie wrote:
>> There are certainly different investing philosophies. One that I've
>> followed, and had reinforced by The Motley Fool, is to not do trades
>> in amounts like $500 because the brokerage fees are too high a
>> percentage of the transaction. Better probably to let your account
>> grow to say $2,000 before making an investment. In the mean time earn
>> interest on the cash that you are saving up.
> How does your account grow to say $2000 if you don't put anything in it?
> Perhaps you mean a non-investment account but your reference to
> "account" above is vague. If you mean a cash account of some kind then
> by saving up $2000 over time it means you don't do many investment
> transactions thus online downloading of investment transactions is not
> helpful.
If you have a brokerage account then you have the ability to deposit
money into that account without immediately investing it. You should
also earn interest on that cash, although there may be a minimum cash
balance before you start earing interest. And you may earn a higher
rate f interest on a savings account elsewhere while you accumulate
cash. It us usually easy to do an online transfer from your savings
account to your investment account. At e*trade you can even an
investment account and a savings account with the same company and
transfers between them are instant.
>> But the question was what value is there to investment downloads,
>> especially for small traders.
> I'd say the vast majority of people don't have a spare $1000, let alone
> $2000 to invest each month. At that rate how long does it take you to
> enter 12 transactions a year?
>> I'd say marginal value if all you do is trade and occasionally receive
>> dividends. Even then, if you are entering your transaction manually
>> and downloading periodically from your broker, then you have something
>> to easy and quickly reconcile, validating your position very quickly.
Sounds like we agreed.
> Again, online investment downloading has little value to somebody who
> doesn't have a lot of transactions.
>> But if you have your dividends reinvested, which is a very good
>> strategy, then downloading becomes a bit more significant and convenient.
> I'd agree with you except for one thing - I have yet to meet an
> investment company who does reinvestment of dividends the correct way.
> By that I mean the Quicken way. Quicken has a transaction type called
> ReinvDiv. This transaction handles the reinvestment of dividends in one
> transaction. Most (all?) investment companies download two. One
> dispatching the Div and another to buy more stock/mutual funds. As a
> professional programmer with some 28 years of experience I know that
> when interfacing two dissimilar systems together as is being done here,
> the programmer must make an effort to understand both systems and there
> is a small amount of translating involved. So then if Quicken's native
> representation of a reinvestment of dividends is a single ReinvDiv
> transaction and the broker's idea of it is to - then *a translation is
> to occur to meld these two different systems together* and thus each
> speaks in it's own native tongue as it were. This is the value of a good
> programmer to this sort of situation! Again, I have yet to see it happen
> WRT investment companies and Quicken!
Yep. And even without 28 years of programing experience I think most
people understand that. In my case I have even more years in the
business than you do, although in this instance I don't think it is
relevant.
And since this has now turned into a discussion just for the sake of
discussion I'll drop this sub-thread.
> --
> Andrew DeFaria <http://defaria.com>
Andrew DeFaria
Andrew,I don't necessary have an answer to your question,
but I would like to share a couple of thoughts (this my be considered a gripe).The only place in my investment portfolio where downloads would really help me (but they don't) is with my Vanguard 401(k). I have about 150 transactions per month most in fractional shares of seven funds. These represent new contributions / buys, reinvested dividends and fees.
My issue is that Vanguard statements and their website report all transactions and unit balances to me rounded to three places after the decimal, while the transactions download to five places. I almost have to touch up each entry as I accept (generally to fix the units).
The number of transactions is caused by the number of "buckets" (before tax, after tax, company match, etc.) Vanguard tracks the funds in. I am not certain that the "buckets" really do me any good in Quicken - as far as I can tell, I can't report on them, nor do I see a need for any such information from Quicken as I would go to Vanguard.This would reduce the number of transactions to 20 to 25 per month (spread out) if I received the transactions at the next higher level.
This is not a Quicken issue - as Vanguard supplies the data. Only recently did I notice there was a change either to Quicken or by Vanguard where the holdings in Online Center (Q2008) shows the units to three decimals - at least now I should be able to reconcile to the Vanguard website statements. : )
If the fund carry's the units to five decimals Vanguard should report it that way on the web or on their statements.
As for other investments accounts - they work fine with the download as all I am really doing is matching to scheduled transactions for dividends as I am not an active trader.
sharx35
"JimH" <hen...@nospam.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:lxjuj.41949$ov5....@newsfe15.phx...
I have ONE joint checking account. No need for any more. When my wife and I
married, we also "married" all of our assets..no need to obsessively keep
everything separate.
JimH
> I have ONE joint checking account. No need for any more. When my wife and I
> married, we also "married" all of our assets..no need to obsessively keep
> everything separate.
>
I never said we kept things separate. I'm not obsessive about anything
except exercise and pizza. :-)
We have been married for 32 years. We're looking forward to 32 more. All
of our accounts are joint accounts except IRA's which must be kept separate.
We have accounts other than checking and savings.
---
Jim
Stubby
> sharx35 wrote:
>
> > I have ONE joint checking account. No need for any more. When my wife
and I
> > married, we also "married" all of our assets..no need to obsessively
keep
> > everything separate.
Good. A "marriage" is really a melding of financial estates. If you
don't like that, you can get a lawyer to draw up an agreement that excludes
specific items from the marriage contract. You'll figure that all out if
you get divorced!
sharx35
> sharx35 wrote:
>
>> I have ONE joint checking account. No need for any more. When my wife and
>> I married, we also "married" all of our assets..no need to obsessively
>> keep everything separate.
>>
>
> I never said we kept things separate. I'm not obsessive about anything
> except exercise and pizza. :-)
Pizza is the important thing here. Deep dish? Thick crust? Thin?
sharx35
"Stubby" <William.Plummer*NO*SPAM*@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:SM2dnfDSWO2TzSba...@comcast.com...
Incredibly, I hear some of my income tax clients arguing about who paid for
what..as if it matters. Hell, all of our family's income goes into ONE joint
account before being allocated to various bills, etc..