About 1.5 weeks ago, I put in a two years old MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514) motherboard/mobo. to replace my old Athlon 64 system for my old Debian/Linux box. I noticed its onboard audio volume is much lower than my previous motherboards' onboard audio (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe (Via chipset) and MSI K8N NEO4-F (MS-7125; nForce4 chipset). I tried maxxing out the audio volumes in old KDE v3.5.10's KMix, but they are still too soft/low on my non-powered Sony speakers and headphones. Is this normal and are there any ways to crank up the audio volumes through software controls?
Thnak you in advance. :) -- Quote of the Week: "Any spoke will lead the ant to the hub." --unknown /\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting, ( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
> About 1.5 weeks ago, I put in a two years old MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514) > motherboard/mobo. to replace my old Athlon 64 system for my old > Debian/Linux box. I noticed its onboard audio volume is much lower than > my previous motherboards' onboard audio (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe (Via > chipset) and MSI K8N NEO4-F (MS-7125; nForce4 chipset). I tried maxxing > out the audio volumes in old KDE v3.5.10's KMix, but they are still too > soft/low on my non-powered Sony speakers and headphones. Is this normal > and are there any ways to crank up the audio volumes through software > controls?
> Thnak you in advance. :)
Often the audio subsystem on new motherboards provides a number of mixer channels, and you have to make sure the right ones are unmuted and set to a decent volume.
When I don't hear sound, I run alsamixer, an ncurses-based app. Select the right sound card first (if more than one is available). Then check out all of the channels -- Master, Front, PCM, etc. and make sure they are unmuted (OO instead of MM) and set to a usable level.
I don't know if Kmix shows all mixers, but alsamixer does.
There is also alsamixergui if you have a deathly fear of arrow keys :-)
>> About 1.5 weeks ago, I put in a two years old MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514) >> motherboard/mobo. to replace my old Athlon 64 system for my old >> Debian/Linux box. I noticed its onboard audio volume is much lower than >> my previous motherboards' onboard audio (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe (Via >> chipset) and MSI K8N NEO4-F (MS-7125; nForce4 chipset). I tried maxxing >> out the audio volumes in old KDE v3.5.10's KMix, but they are still too >> soft/low on my non-powered Sony speakers and headphones. Is this normal >> and are there any ways to crank up the audio volumes through software >> controls? >> >> Thnak you in advance. :) > > Often the audio subsystem on new motherboards provides a number of > mixer channels, and you have to make sure the right ones are unmuted and set > to a decent volume.
Yeah, I tried them. I enabled ALL and to the max. Even the input ones like mic, line in, etc.
> When I don't hear sound, I run alsamixer, an ncurses-based app. Select > the right sound card first (if more than one is available). Then check out > all of the channels -- Master, Front, PCM, etc. and make sure they are > unmuted (OO instead of MM) and set to a usable level. > > I don't know if Kmix shows all mixers, but alsamixer does. > > There is also alsamixergui if you have a deathly fear of arrow keys :-)
Thank you for the tip on alsamixergui. I just installed it and played with it. Same problems with the low audio volumes. I guess this onboard audo is quieter than my previous ones. :( -- "He who dislikes aardvarks was an ant in his former life." --unknown /\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
> About 1.5 weeks ago, I put in a two years old MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514) > motherboard/mobo. to replace my old Athlon 64 system for my old > Debian/Linux box. I noticed its onboard audio volume is much lower than > my previous motherboards' onboard audio (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe (Via > chipset) and MSI K8N NEO4-F (MS-7125; nForce4 chipset). I tried maxxing > out the audio volumes in old KDE v3.5.10's KMix, but they are still too > soft/low on my non-powered Sony speakers and headphones. Is this normal > and are there any ways to crank up the audio volumes through software > controls?
> Thnak you in advance. :)
The manual I have on disk here for MSI-7514, says the audio chip is ALC888. You can get a datasheet here.
On input, impedance is 47K ohms. That is slightly better than the average stereo input impedance of 10K ohms (higher ohms equals less loading).
On output, it has an option to turn the output stage amplifier on and off. This corresponds to a setting of "headphones" or the like, in a control panel. HDaudio chips, don't necessarily like it, if you turn on the headphone amp on all channels at the same time. That can draw a lot of power, if you were serious. You may, under some configuration settings, be able to enable front panel headphone amp, and line (green plug) headphone amp at the same time. But more regularly, only one plug has the amp turned on. It's up to the driver design, to decide whether turning on all the amps is bad or not.
The output impedance is listed as "1 ohm" with amp on, and "100 ohms" with amp off. The 100 ohm setting, if driving a 32 ohm headphone, is going to sound weak. It means there will be a voltage divider action, between the output stage and the headphones. Roughly speaking, the headphones end up with 25% of the voltage across them, the output driver has 75% of the voltage across it.
If the amp is turned on, you get virtually 100% voltage across the 32 ohm headphones. But that spec tells lies, as you can't really drive a 1 ohm load and expect the output stage to hold up. CMOS driving circuits have natural current limits, and the output would start to distort if you put a matching 1 ohm load on the circuit. So that isn't really an effective characterization of the output. It's probably a "small signal" characterization, where the test conditions don't stress the output.
Previous generations of chips, might have claimed to have 32 ohm outputs, which was a way of saying, "they drive headphones at full volume". The 1 ohm spec on your chip, says it should be able to do that, and then some.
So check that the amp is turned on. I don't know whether Linux provides details about that kind of thing. And in Windows, I doubt they'll state in English "hey, we turned on the amp for ya". The best you could do in Windows, to get full volume, is to enter the control panel, and state you're driving a set of headphones. That should cause the amp to be turned on.
The reason the amp is switchable, is because it adds distortion. The amp may ruin the noise figure, by 10dB. They make it switchable, in case you're running amplified speakers with 10K ohm input impedance. In that case, you don't want or need the amp turned on. This is the spec from the RealTek datasheet for ALC888. Total Harmonic Distortion plus Noise.
The degradation in the spec, is caused by switching on the amp.
Depending on the music content, you might not notice the difference. In any case, see if some control panel will allow you to state that you're using headphones. The Linux setups I have here, are pretty spartan, and I don't know if I could get that kind of detail or not. (I run Linux in VMs.)
Interesting finds you found and shared even though a bit technical to me. Thanks though. :)
Hmm, I didn't see any toggles for an amp in all of the mixers I used (KDE's KMix, alsamixer, and alsamixergui). Maybe there's a parameter or something to see/access it?
> > > (Site uses FTP, only with a username/password encoded into the web page. > The password could be changed on a regular basis.) > > ftp://WebUser:fH7s...@207.232.93.28/pc/audio/ALC888_DataSheet_1.4.pdf > > Analog performance is on page 75 of the PDF file. > > On input, impedance is 47K ohms. That is slightly better than > the average stereo input impedance of 10K ohms (higher ohms > equals less loading). > > On output, it has an option to turn the output stage amplifier > on and off. This corresponds to a setting of "headphones" or the > like, in a control panel. HDaudio chips, don't necessarily like > it, if you turn on the headphone amp on all channels at the same > time. That can draw a lot of power, if you were serious. You may, > under some configuration settings, be able to enable front panel > headphone amp, and line (green plug) headphone amp at the same > time. But more regularly, only one plug has the amp turned on. > It's up to the driver design, to decide whether turning on all > the amps is bad or not. > > The output impedance is listed as "1 ohm" with amp on, and > "100 ohms" with amp off. The 100 ohm setting, if driving a > 32 ohm headphone, is going to sound weak. It means there will > be a voltage divider action, between the output stage and the > headphones. Roughly speaking, the headphones end up with 25% > of the voltage across them, the output driver has 75% of the voltage > across it. > > If the amp is turned on, you get virtually 100% voltage across > the 32 ohm headphones. But that spec tells lies, as you can't > really drive a 1 ohm load and expect the output stage to hold > up. CMOS driving circuits have natural current limits, and > the output would start to distort if you put a matching 1 ohm > load on the circuit. So that isn't really an effective > characterization of the output. It's probably a "small signal" > characterization, where the test conditions don't stress the > output. > > Previous generations of chips, might have claimed to have 32 ohm > outputs, which was a way of saying, "they drive headphones at > full volume". The 1 ohm spec on your chip, says it should be > able to do that, and then some. > > So check that the amp is turned on. I don't know whether > Linux provides details about that kind of thing. And in > Windows, I doubt they'll state in English "hey, we turned > on the amp for ya". The best you could do in Windows, to > get full volume, is to enter the control panel, and > state you're driving a set of headphones. That should > cause the amp to be turned on. > > The reason the amp is switchable, is because it adds > distortion. The amp may ruin the noise figure, by 10dB. > They make it switchable, in case you're running amplified > speakers with 10K ohm input impedance. In that case, you > don't want or need the amp turned on. This is the spec > from the RealTek datasheet for ALC888. Total Harmonic Distortion > plus Noise. > > "THD+N > > DAC -90DB FS > Headphone Amplifier Output @ 32 ohm load -80dB FS " > > The degradation in the spec, is caused by switching on the amp. > > Depending on the music content, you might not notice the > difference. In any case, see if some control panel will > allow you to state that you're using headphones. The Linux > setups I have here, are pretty spartan, and I don't know if > I could get that kind of detail or not. (I run Linux in VMs.) -- "If I want to be a robber, I rob the king's treasury. If I want to be a hunter, I hunt the rhino. What is the use of robbing beggars and hunting ants? So if you want to love, love God." --Swami Vivekananda /\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: 2nd Reality - Purple Motion (Hexen Unofficial Remix).
Ant wrote: > Interesting finds you found and shared even though a bit technical to > me. Thanks though. :)
> Hmm, I didn't see any toggles for an amp in all of the mixers I used > (KDE's KMix, alsamixer, and alsamixergui). Maybe there's a parameter or > something to see/access it?
Any setting related to headphones ?
If it's Linux, you could try looking through source. (It's one of the reasons I have one VM running Gentoo, because I can figure out stuff easier on a distro built from source. My sound works in Gentoo - can't say the same for Ubuntu. In Gentoo, I have PulseAudio removed via a USE flag.)
In comp.os.linux.hardware Ant <a...@zimage.comant> wrote:
> Interesting finds you found and shared even though a bit technical to > me. Thanks though. :)
> Hmm, I didn't see any toggles for an amp in all of the mixers I used > (KDE's KMix, alsamixer, and alsamixergui). Maybe there's a parameter or > something to see/access it?
Take a look at /etc/asound.state and see if there's anything there to control the headphone amp.
>> Interesting finds you found and shared even though a bit technical to >> me. Thanks though. :)
>> Hmm, I didn't see any toggles for an amp in all of the mixers I used >> (KDE's KMix, alsamixer, and alsamixergui). Maybe there's a parameter >> or something to see/access it?
> Any setting related to headphones ?
Um, just one but it is at 00 in alsamixer that can't be changed. I think it is because I don't have a headphone connected right now? I use my non-powered speakers more than the headphones. See my earlier screen shots/captures of both mixers with old XMMS playing a MP3 file in the background: http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6076/63730723.png http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/9545/28073079.png -- "Even the sharpest ear cannot hear an ant singing." --Sudanese /\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
> I am wondering if your box uses pulse audio. If so, get pavucontrol > (pulse audio volume control) -- worked for me, on pulse audio.
-- "I used to command a battalion of German ants." --Tom /\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
> About 1.5 weeks ago, I put in a two years old MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514) > motherboard/mobo. to replace my old Athlon 64 system for my old > Debian/Linux box. I noticed its onboard audio volume is much lower than > my previous motherboards' onboard audio (ASUS K8V SE Deluxe (Via > chipset) and MSI K8N NEO4-F (MS-7125; nForce4 chipset).
<snip>
I noticed a similar drop in volume when I switched to the integrated audio on this motherboard, from an SBLive! discrete card, last time I upgraded. While I was able to ramp it high enough, playing with alsamixer, to use regularly, it never did reach the same volume levels that my old cards are capable of (my SB Live! is capable of hurting my ears through headphones, IIRC). I've just written it off as one of the power-saving methods used by motherboard manufacturers -shrug-.
> I noticed a similar drop in volume when I switched to the integrated > audio on this motherboard, from an SBLive! discrete card, last time I > upgraded. While I was able to ramp it high enough, playing with alsamixer, > to use regularly, it never did reach the same volume levels that my old > cards are capable of (my SB Live! is capable of hurting my ears through > headphones, IIRC). I've just written it off as one of the power-saving > methods used by motherboard manufacturers -shrug-.
Thank you for the confirmation. :) -- "Lay a stick of bubble gum on an anthill for instant Siamese Ant Twins." --unknown /\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
