Heat from heatpipes probably damaged a memory chip.
Skybuck
Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's
Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was
not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat
expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang
CPU Cooler).
I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response
from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat
from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu
cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... ;) I am not sure if
it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan
at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might
have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!?
But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around
heatpipes is a good thing...
Anyway here are the pictures:
Main folder:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/
Picture 1:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic1BitErrorsDetected.JPG
Picture2:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic2HeatpipesAsSuspect.JPG
Picture3:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic3HeatpipesCloseUp.JPG
Picture4:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic4PlentyOfFans.JPG
Picture5:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic5LittleRoomForMemoryChips.JPG
Picture6:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic6SomeDustOnTopDownCPUCooler.JPG
Picture 7:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic7Overview.JPG
Picture8:
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic8FailedChipWasNew.JPG
I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is
closest to the cpu ?!?
I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot
heatpipes away from the memory chips...
I guess this was also kinda a experiment to see what would happen and
yup after many months... a memory chip got damaged ! So that pretty
much confirms the experiment for me: "heatpipes near memory chips not
a good idea ?!"
Let me know what you think and peace out !
For me this is becoming a drag... I have fixed this pc so many times
it's starting to bum-me-out.
Feels like I am fixing a formula 1 car or dragracing car all the
time ! LOL I am kinda fed up with it ! ;)
Heat is a killer that's for sure ! My next PC must be a "cool" and
"low heat" and "low power pc" otherwise I will go nuts ! ;) :) (And
hopefully have still somewhat decent performance ;))
Bye,
Skybuck.
The Central Screwtinizer
wrote:
[...] otherwise I will go nuts !
That ship already sailed long ago, son...
larry moe 'n curly
Skybuck wrote:
>
> Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's
> Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
>
> It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was
> not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
>
> This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat
> expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang
> CPU Cooler).
>
> I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response
> from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat
> from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu
> cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... ;) I am not sure if
> it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
>
> Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan
> at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might
> have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!?
> But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around
> heatpipes is a good thing...
>
> Anyway here are the pictures:
> Picture2:
> http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic2HeatpipesAsSuspect.JPG
Doesn't indicate heatpipes at fault; view doesn't show whether or not
heatpipes are touching chips or module circuit boards.
> Picture3:
> http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic3HeatpipesCloseUp.JPG
It looks like they're not touching, but I can't be sure. If they are,
you can protect them by placing cardboard between the pieces. If you
want to be fancy, get fish paper from an electronics supply.
> Picture4:
> http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic4PlentyOfFans.JPG
Too many fans. Silly cooling setup. Memory doesn't mind heat --
notice Micron and Samsung specify 85-95 Celcius max. operating temp.
for their DDR2 chips.
> Picture8:
> http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic8FailedChipWasNew.JPG
Where are the chips? All I see are the modules, which have heatsinks
over the chips.
The only ways a heatpipe could have caused damage:
1. It pressed against a heatsink and made a chip glued to it pull away
from the circuit board.
2. It touched the edge of the circuit board and just happened to short
some copper plane or traces right at the edge. But I thought module
circuit boards were designed to leave a tiny bit of space between the
copper and the edges.
But it couldn't have been the heat because the contact area was too
small, even if the contact was against a heatsink.
You're not using the world's best memory because the chips are covered
by heatsinks, and Corsair admits that it uses UTT (UnTesTed) RAM
chips, rather than prime quality chips (will have actual
manufacturer's ID markings on chip packages).
> I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is
> closest to the cpu ?!?
Almost always.
> I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot
> heatpipes away from the memory chips...
They probably don't matter.
SteveH
> Hello,
>
> I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response
> from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat
All those pictures show is that you live in a dusty environment and either
don't have air filters on your PC, or don't clean it enough.
--
SteveH
Craig Sutton
"Skybuck" <skybu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4db23453-1ee7-4cd9...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> For me this is becoming a drag... I have fixed this pc so many times
> it's starting to bum-me-out.
>
> Feels like I am fixing a formula 1 car or dragracing car all the
> time ! LOL I am kinda fed up with it ! ;)
>
You still don't get it?
The problem is YOU messing with it you don't have a CLUE! I bought my
similar setup to yours at around the same time and havn't had single
problem.
Same ram,same m.b, same hd's
Archimedes' Lever
From 2k6? The AMD CPUs then were very good at thermal management, and
if he did NOT overclock, the whole damned set-up is HUGE overkill.
The best way to manage your PCs thermals are to MONITOR them, and
observe what temperatures things are being raised to. DUH!
Archimedes' Lever
Like I said, he is so clueless about ESD, that he probably *thinks* his
gear is protected while he futzes around with it.
I have been swapping hard drives, optical drives, sound cards, video
cards, etc. in my PC since I bought it in '04.
I keep the dust off the blades and tines.
I use several SATA drives as backups, and archives, and they get swapped
in and out ALL the time.
Never a problem from XP, through Vista, and now Windows 7.
HE is the problem, and ALL his posts he EVER made about his machines are
the absolute proof.
GMAN
From looking at the picture of how you have the CPU heatsink attached, you
should have the heatpipes facting towards the back of the case close to the
exaust fans. in that Antec 1200 case
GMAN
Too many fans my ass, that an Antec 1200 case and its highly rated among
enthusiasts. Along with its older sibling the Antec 900.
>> Picture8:
>>
> http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/MemoryCorruption/Pic8FailedChipWasNew.JP
>G
>
>Where are the chips? All I see are the modules, which have heatsinks
>over the chips.
>
>The only ways a heatpipe could have caused damage:
>
>1. It pressed against a heatsink and made a chip glued to it pull away
>from the circuit board.
>
>2. It touched the edge of the circuit board and just happened to short
>some copper plane or traces right at the edge. But I thought module
>circuit boards were designed to leave a tiny bit of space between the
>copper and the edges.
>
>But it couldn't have been the heat because the contact area was too
>small, even if the contact was against a heatsink.
>
>You're not using the world's best memory because the chips are covered
>by heatsinks, and Corsair admits that it uses UTT (UnTesTed) RAM
>chips, rather than prime quality chips (will have actual
>manufacturer's ID markings on chip packages).
>
>> I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is
>> closest to the cpu ?!?
>
>Almost always.
>
>> I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot
>> heatpipes away from the memory chips...
>
Agreed, he needs to reverse how he has that heatsink mounted
Skybuck
wrote:
> Skybuckwrote:
Which gives me a new interesting theory:
The Scythe Zipang is a top down cooler... which could mean it blew
dust into the memory chips from above... and somehow that tiny little
bit of dust caused a short circuit in the memory chip ! ;)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Skybuck
following:
"Water vapor from the dust filters was blown towards the memory chips
and was blown into the memory chips which caused a short circuit".
Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... I just made sure
most of the moisture was gone... just little bit of moisture was left.
So I wonder if it's possible for tiny little micro drupplets of water
to float through the air and kill a chip ?!?
To me this seems unlikely but reality is usually more strange than
fantasy ! ;)
One last theory/hypothesis which I already wrote about in the past is:
"pc is not grounded, and me touching pc causes static electricic
feedback into the pc, since motherboard(s) is/are known to have some
leakage, so reversed path seems plausible".
I will probably call an electrician to check out and change the power
sockets with "grounding power sockets"... I am curious if he will
discovery anything about the power sockets... like maybe no grounding
wire present :)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Toolpackinmama
> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was
> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a
> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
larry moe 'n curly
Skybuck wrote:
> The Scythe Zipang is a top down cooler... which could mean it blew
> dust into the memory chips from above... and somehow that tiny little
> bit of dust caused a short circuit in the memory chip ! ;)
Not unless the computer was next to a busy metal lathe or milling
machine.
Skybuck Flying
"Toolpackinmama" <philn...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hcjjn1$j0e$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Real, can't find the video of the kid...
But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their dust
filters with water ! ;)
Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! ;) :)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Norman Peelman
Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
--
Norman
Registered Linux user #461062
Skybuck Flying
"Norman Peelman" <npee...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4aee4a70$0$5118$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
But then one needs to wait... which is "down time"... and might be
unneccessary ?
(Also cleaning it dry takes more time and toiletpaper ! ;))
The real question is:
What happens if it's slightly wet/moisturish ;)
Anybody know ? ;) :) =D
Bye,
Skybuck ;) =D
John Fields
---
He's just another troll.
JF
Norman Peelman
What happens if you just run the system without the dust filter on
until it dries? Would it be so bad? Oh wait, why not get extra dust
filters so you can rotate them out for cleaning...
Michael W. Ryder
Nothing. They have been using cleanable filters on computers since
before you were born and have never had a problem with moisture. You
have to remember that the air coming off a "damp" filter probably does
not have any more moisture than room air on a muggy day unless you are
in a clean room and then you wouldn't need the filters.
> Bye,
> Skybuck ;) =D
>
>
Skybuck Flying
I thought about the idea of extra dust filters... might be a nice idea for
antec in the future ! Why didn't they think of it ! ;) :)
I would still like to know the answer to my question:
What happens if the air in the room is moisterish... for example... suppose
I take a shower... and there is this gas burning near the pc... lot's of
gasses being burned and expelled into the air...
What will the effect of burned gas be on for example the asus motherboard
?!?
I am beginning to suspect that the asus motherboard in combination with
burned gasses, some moisture and heat... is corroding or so... ?!?
Bye,
Skybuck.
Zootal
"Skybuck Flying" <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea080$4aeff753$d53372a9$17...@cache4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Mother boards and related equipment have environmental ratings that tell you
the maximum humidity and temperature they will tolerate. Exceed that and you
run the risk of condensation and corrosion. Condensation on high frequency
high impedance circuits can bring your computer down right now, blammo, and
stay down until it dries. Just putting a finger across some of these traces
will crash your computer. Extended exposure to moisture can cause corrosion
that can eventually kill your computer, though you would have to run it in a
sweathouse to get that to happen. The heat inside of the case is usually
enough to keep moisture from condensing under most circumstances. A moist
dust filter and the temporary increase in humidity is not likely to hurt
anything.
And if you put your computer in your oven, then it isn't the burned gasses
that will kill it...
nobody >
>
> Mother boards and related equipment have environmental ratings that tell you
> the maximum humidity and temperature they will tolerate. Exceed that and you
> run the risk of condensation and corrosion. Condensation on high frequency
> high impedance circuits can bring your computer down right now, blammo, and
> stay down until it dries. Just putting a finger across some of these traces
> will crash your computer.
You must be dealing with some awfully crappy motherboards with totally
bare traces.
Zootal
"nobody >" <useneth...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0pSdnTutKMl5bW3X...@supernews.com...
Out there in the real world, it happens. Not every piece of electronic
equipment is a nice neat color coordinated motherboard with pretty traces
and an aesthetically pleasing design, not to mention your "conformal
coating".
nobody >
Sorry,Zootal... I've been dealing with "real world" printed circuit
boards a long time. I might even venture that I was possibly repairing
them before you were born.
I've repaired marine electronics from sunken boats, portable two-way
radios found in sewers, pagers that went swimming in toilets, dispatch
consoles that have had the "Pepsi Treatment" (lattes and mochas are
worse..but "PT" is the generic term), and radio base stations doused in
rat pee for years.
I know what can happens from "exposure".
Yes, early PC mobos were "bare-assed traces", but any reasonable mobo
made in the last 10-15 years has some form of coating. Your "finger
touch" doesn't fly.
Zootal
It is possible you were repairing them before I was born. If so, that would
make you upwards of 75 years old. I've met older people out here, so I
suppose that is entirely possible. But don't tell me what is and is not out
there. Yes, there is a lot of nicely made boards properly coated etc. etc.
But I stand by my statement - there is a lot of stuff with "bare ass"
traces and worse. Once you get out of the realm of your pretty consumer
grade electronics and move into the world of military and custom (and
not-so-custom) commercial equipment, you see a stunning range of quality and
reliability - good and bad.
david
say:
Soldermask is not a conformal coating.
GMAN
Antec sells them as replacements. Go to their online store.
nobody >
I started "at a young age" <g> (but true)....
Do you remember military/industrial "printed circuit boards" with pencil
tubes mounted in clips?
I think we both are trying to say the same things. I just have a problem
with your statement that "Just putting a finger across some of these
traces will crash your computer". Mainly the "will" part. The only time
I've had a mobo crash from touch is when I've been finger-stomping
around looking for board cracks (and did find same).
But consider this... this whole thread was started by "StyButt
Flailing"; a person who could break an anvil by looking at it. If there
was *one* set of traces on *one* motherboard in the whole world that
would crash the pooter if touched, "SF" bought that mobo.
nobody >
> Soldermask is not a conformal coating.
True, but measure the resistance sometime.
Michael A. Terrell
You do it, and get back to us with your data. A lot of people on
sci.electronics.design know the facts, no matter what you beleive.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
daytripper
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>"nobody >" wrote:
>>
>> david wrote:
>>
>> > Soldermask is not a conformal coating.
>>
>> True, but measure the resistance sometime.
>
>
> You do it, and get back to us with your data. A lot of people on
>sci.electronics.design know the facts, no matter what you beleive.
Must....not.....respond.....
StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
wrote:
>david wrote:
>
>> Soldermask is not a conformal coating.
>
>True, but measure the resistance sometime.
At least use the proper terminology.
Goddamned overtly cross-posting retards should be banned from access.
Yes, that is a reference to the OP.