OT: SCSI Expert Needed
Barry Watzman
than you do). And usually I am the SCSI expert. But now I need some
help from an expert's expert.
I need to use a Nikon LS-2000 SCSI scanner on a PC that has only
PCI-Express slots.
The only PCI-Express cards that I can find have "wide SCSI" (68-pin)
external ports. But the LS-2000 is an "old" SCSI device, 50-pin SCSI-II
interface (HD50F socket).
First question, anyone know of an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card?
The only one I've seen at all is an Adaptec $200 card.
Second quesiton, even that card has only the 68-pin interface, how do I
connect a "narrow" SCSI device? Can I?
Thanks
daytripper
wrote:
"Inexpensive" and "SCSI" hardly ever get together ;-)
I found the Adaptec 29320LPE Single Channel Ultra 320 SCSI Controller
available for just under $150US. Check Nextag.
You can certainly attach an 8-bit scsi device to a 16b wide channel, you just
need the right cable. I have a venerable 8bit async HP 4C scanner with the
even more ancient Centronics connector cabled to a 68 pin external connector
on a PCI 29320. It just takes the right cable...
Cheers
Paul
There is an HD68 to HD50 here, for going from wide to narrow. I have
one in my collection which is similar to this. Your Nikon could be
Single Ended (SE) and Async (up to 6MBsec, transfer rate varies with total
cable length due to async acknowledgement).
http://www.computercablestore.com/SCSI_Adapter_SCSI_3_HD68__PID906.aspx
There are a few pictures here, to help in identifying
the connector. In one case, I had to remove the securing elements
on my adapter, to connect to a device, as they were not mechanically
compatible.
http://support.doit.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3116
http://dirac.org/linux/misc/scsi/
I've only fiddled with a half dozen SCSI setups, so this
wasn't my "day job". It is a pretty expensive technology to
hook up, in terms of the prices charged for cables and
adapters.
I did see mention of something ideal for the job, but
apparently it isn't manufactured any more.
http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-scsi-adapter-adaptec.htm
This is the replacement. USB2 is capable of 30MB/sec,
so should be able to handle 3-6MB/sec no problem.
"Ratoc USB 2.0 to Ultra SCSI Converter"
http://www.cwol.com/usb/usb-to-scsi-adapter-u2scx.htm
The MSRP is $99. That seems to be about the best price
I can find. I'd prefer to see some reviews, to understand
how well it works.
http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/products/U2SCX.html
Compatibility table.
http://www.ratocsystems.com/english/support/Compatible/u2scxlistwin.html
There aren't enough reviews here, to reach a conclusion.
Paul
nos...@nospam.invalid
You're looking at a major headache. A scsi bus must be properly
terminated, which isn't going to happen unless you pick exactly the
right converter and/or cable to go from 68 to 50 pin. Also, Nikon's
drivers are picky about the scsi cards that will work with their
scanners, and they don't support scsi to usb converters.
Rather than dump $150-200 (and probably more, once you get
through with the cabling) on a controller, just to run that scanner,
why not buy or assemble a second, older (i.e. cheap) PCI-based
system for it? It'll wind up costing a lot less and also be far more
reliable. You can even create a barebones LAN to transfer the
scanned files by using a cheap network card and crossover
Ethernet cable.
frischmoutt
I usually purchase on ebay and I never had any problem enven with cheap
items
Please note that this is a general response. I didn't check for your
specific request.
Regards
"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> a �crit dans le message de news:
haompp$8d7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Barry Watzman
The only known "SCSI-to-{whatever}" adapters that work with these Nikon
film scanners are the Ratoc adapters. Both USB and Firewire adapters
work, but there is a problem: They only work if you are using Hamrick
VueScan scanning software, they do not work with Nikon Scan, which talks
directly to the SCSI ports, apparently, and won't work with any adapter.
I do not know if the Adaptec USB2xchange works or not. I have all 3
adapters (both Ratoc models and the Adaptec model), but I want to stay
with Nikon Scan, hence I need a "real" SCSI port and not an adapter.
[Aside from actual scanning, I service these scanners (often and on a
moderately large scale] and need to do firmware updating, which, also,
doesn't work through SCSI to {whatever} adapters.]
So I need an INEXPENSIVE PCI Express SCSI port. [Inexpensive: I buy
Adaptec 2940 series PCI SCSI cards for $5-$10, sometimes used working
pulls but just about as often new old stock in sealed box.] Which
presents two problems, first, as far as I can find, the least expensive
PCI Express SCSI card is $150-$200 and, second, as far as I can find,
ALL of the PCI Express SCSI cards have a wide, 68-pin interface and the
scanner has a SCSI-II, HD50 "narrow" interface.
My real question was whether an adapter cable, or an adapter "dongle"
(68 pin plug on one side, 50 pin socket on the other side) would work.
Your response, and the other response, seem to suggest that it will.
That leaves me encouraged but, until I actually try it, skeptical.
:-)
Donald White
68 conductor cable I used Meritec 980211-1F1-3F0 adapters. The 50-pin
device cannot terminate the cable. I used a separate 68-pin active
terminator for that.
Hope this helps, but I may have misunderstood your requirements.
Don
GMAN
My advice, if you are basically using the scsi card and pc for updating and
servicing these scanners, is to build up a slower second hand PC that has PCI
slots and then use one of the low cost 2940's you have to do your firmware
updates and testing. Keep your main PC for yourself. You can find used 2.4Ghz
pc's at places like salvation army stores or other trhift stores like theirs.
Or get one from your local university surplus center.
This is one at the University of Utah, look for a similar one at your
location.
http://fbs.admin.utah.edu/index.php/surplus/
Barry Watzman
and wide devices).
However, the issue is not with respect to 2940's, since I'm looking for
a PCI Express adapter (and, ideally, one that is under $50).
But I'm curious about your comment: "The 50-pin device cannot terminate
the cable."
My plan was to use a 68 to 50 pin adapter at the back of the SCSI card,
or, alternatively, a 68 to 50 pin cable. The scanner has internal
termination (which can be turned on or off) and is the only device on
the SCSI chain. Are you saying that won't work? Since, at that point,
I'm already down to a 50-pin connector, how does the chain get terminated?
[note, FWIW, as a practical matter these scanners usually work fine even
if there is no termination at all (again, they are the only device on
the chain, and they are, by SCSI standards, low-speed devices)]
Barry Watzman
hand PC that has PCI slots"
Not an option; or, perhaps more correctly, not an adequate answer to all
of the [many] reasons for the inquiry.
I sell these, hundreds of them. I have no control over the systems they
are going into or that my customers have. So far, we simply take the
position that they have to be used on systems with PCI slots, but that
is becoming more and more of an issue. I need information for my
customers as well as for myself. I have to know and understand the
possible configurations, and the implications of those configurations.
And I have to have personally worked with them myself, to at least some
degree, to be able to support them. And, finally, I will need the SCSI
cards, cables and any adapters required to be able to include those in
complete systems for customers who will use them in PCI Express desktops.
mi...@hotmail.com
Have you checked out Ebay? I remember buying a and Adaptec 39320
Ultra 320 scsi card there for under $100 that I'm using in the PCI E
slot on my board. There are also 68 pin to 50 pin scsi cables that
might work for you.
Paul
There are SCSI termination rules out there. This article implies the
external type adapter (applied in-line in mid chain), has terminations
in it. And the internal version, goes between the ribbon cable and a disk
drive, and has no termination (as it just adjusts the connector type
at the "stub" to the drive). But what it implies, may not actually
be present (or documented for that matter), in the actual stuff
you can buy. I've always had to ask a lot of questions before buying
stuff like that.
http://www.scsita.org/aboutscsi/SCSI_Termination_Tutorial.html#3
http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/support/scsi/2940/AHA-2940W/hw_install/8_and_16_bit_devices.htm
It's been a long time since I worked with my Wide to Narrow adapter.
I think there may have been a Sun wide auto-terminating disk drive in front
of my 68 to 50 adapter, and it may have terminated the upper lanes, leaving the
lower lane to be terminated further along the bus. But I actually
had a working external SCSI chain, which had wide drives closest to the
computer, and an older narrow (Shoebox) at the end of the chain. And
I managed to get it to work (the Sun OS didn't downshift the transfer rate
while the system was running).
The problem is, before buying these adapters, you never get to find out
what circuitry is included inside. Whether there is an active terminator
on the upper lane or not. So I believe it can be done, I just haven't
done any new SCSI setups in the last ten years or so. For the adapter
I own, I've have to get out the ohmmeter and try and determine whether
anything is hanging on the upper lane or not, of the adapter.
My home SCSI use, is the occasional wide single SCSI drive. (Back when
disks were smaller, I used to have four SCSI drives to get enough space.)
I use a 2906 for my SCSI scanner, the one with a 25 pin connector on it.
And a 25 pin to Centronics 50 pin cable, with an inline terminator
at the end. Basically, any time I do any SCSI stuff, I have to
"learn it all over again".
Paul
gb
Adaptec SCSI card.
As long as the scanner is the only item on the SCSI chain, any 68pin to 50HD
pin cable or adapter will work (I currently do this with with a cable, but
have also done so with an adapter).
On the other hand, if you're mixing wide and narrow devices, the issue is
more difficult (and tests my memory). The key is that there are two types
of 68pin to 50pin adapters -- one with the high-bit terminated in the
adapter and one without such termination. This comes into play only when
mixing wide and narrow devices on the SCSI chain, including internal and
external devices. If the internal devices are wide devices and all the
external devices are narrow, some SCSI cards can be set to terminate the
high-bit for the external devices and any external adapter/cable can be
used. If not, an adapter with high-bit termination is required. If there
are both wide and narrow external devices, the wide devices must be placed
closer on the chain to the SCSI card and a means of terminating the high bit
(the appropriate adapter) must be placed in the chain before the first
narrow device. If there are no wide devices either internally or externally
there should be no problems using just a 68-50 cable (no high-bit
termination) or either type of 68-50 adapter. (Of course, if you have
multiple devices keep in mind the overall length of the SCSI chain -- in my
exprerience it is more critical with a wide SCSI card.)
By the way, there are issues (which I can't remember just now) with running
the LS-2000's Nikonscan software in Vista or Windows 7, but it is
possible -- I'm running mine with Windows 7 RC at the moment.
Hope this helps.
gb
"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:haompp$8d7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Barry Watzman
converters terminated the high bits without terminating the low order bits.
gb
A wide to narrow would not be terminating both high and low since that would
block the signal passing thru to the narrow "side" of the adapter and on to
the narrow device. Like you, when I got my first wide-ultrawide card I
wouldn't have thought there were more than one type of wide-to-narrow
adapter. After all, if the high bits aren't terminated any wide devices
will see an unterminated chain. But, after researching Adaptec's adapters
on its website at the time, I found that there were indeed two types -- and
the one I needed was considerably more expensive than the other (of course).
"Barry Watzman" <Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hardee$r4r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Paul
Here is another option. This card is a PCI Express x1 to PCI adapter.
http://www.beaglesoft.com/pcie2pci.htm
The price is $140, so that doesn't allow saving any money on buying a
real PCI Express SCSI card. But at least it is another way to get the
job done. If there was any demand for such a product, and a higher
volume, you might see a thing like that for $20+.
Paul
spiked
gb;1116514 Wrote:
> By the way, there are issues (which I can't remember just now) with
> running
> the LS-2000's Nikonscan software in Vista or Windows 7, but it is
> possible -- I'm running mine with Windows 7 RC at the moment.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> gb
Just curious as to what your config is for LS2000 on Win7 (are you
running 32-bit or 64-bit Win7)?
I couldn't find drivers that would work with either of my Adaptec SCSI
cards on 64-bit Win7 (and/or had trouble installing ASPI on it IIRC).
spiked
Barry Watzman
successfully on Vista, and I know about as much about them as anyone
since I service and sell them in moderately large quantity (a few hundred).
Everyone's experience seems to be different. My two attempts were
successful and straightforward, but some of my customers have been
unable to get it to work.
My first comment, you have to use 32-bit Vista (or, presumably, Win 7
(which I have not tried yet)). I don't think that there is any hope for
64-bit using Nikon Scan, although it may work with VueScan.
You have to use a SCSI card with Vista Drivers. I've had good luck with
Adaptec 2940 series cards.
I had no particular problems installing either ASPI (version 4.71a2) or
Nikon Scan. Use "compatibility mode", of course, for both the installer
and the program itself (after it's installed). And use "run as
administrator", again, for both the installation and the program. With
those steps, I had no problems, it worked right off. On a laptop, use
an Adaptec 1480 series PC card. For laptops with Express Card rather
than PC Card slots, Newegg has an adapter (made by rosewill) that lets
you plug a Cardbus PC Card (1480) into an ExpressCard slot (note that
the 1460 is not Cardbus and will not work).
You mention that you are using 64-bit Win7, and I think that dooms you.
It's possible that it might work under Virtual XP Mode but I doubt it,
since I think that at the lowest level, the drivers would still have to
be 64-bit, and no 64-bit drivers for these scanners (or, in some cases,
the SCSI cards) exist.
Luigi
A'm in a similar boat here... I have a trusty HP ScanJet 4C with a 2906
Adaptec scsi. I bought a PCI-E to PCI adapter for about 50 bucks
(canadian):
It worked and I was able to mount the PCI card on it, but sadly,
Windows 7 will say there are no drivers available.
Researching on the Adaptec site I found that they won't bother making
Windows 7 drivers for this and a ton of other cards:
So... if anybody here knows of any other brand of card with pci-e and a
25-pin female scsi that will work in Windows 7 please holler....
Thanks!
GMAN
Luigi
Already tried that. I have Windows 7 64bit and it won't let me.
I right-click on the .inf file and click Install from the context menu
and I get:
The INF file does not support this method of installation.
I'm I missing something?
Thanks!
>
>[/color]
Barry Watzman
motherboards still have at least one PCI slot.
Instead of the 2906, try a 2940 series card (I prefer the 2940AU, but
the straight 2940 should work also; avoid the "wide" variants of this
card (with the 68-pin SCSI interface). Vista drivers for the 2940
exist, although possibly only for 32-bit Vista. You can buy 2940 series
cards on E-Bay for $5 to $10. Again, avoid the "wide" variants.
One other option that might work (maybe): Ratoc makes SCSI to {Firewire
and USB) adapters. They work on the Nikon LS-30 and LS-2000 scanners if
you use VueScan software (they do not work with the Nikon Scan
software). They are not cheap, and as far as I know, no other "SCSI to
{whatever}" converters work at all.
I don't know if the 2940 will work with Windows 7 or not. I would have
thought that the Vista 32-bit driver would probably work with Windows 7
32-bit, but that was just speculation on my part.
We definitely need an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card.
Barry Watzman
driver exists.
GMAN
>
PRIVATE
<Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know if the 2940 will work with Windows 7 or not. I would have
>thought that the Vista 32-bit driver would probably work with Windows 7
>32-bit, but that was just speculation on my part.
>
>We definitely need an inexpensive PCI Express SCSI card.
>
A big thumbs-down to Adaptec on this issue.
I did a search on "PCI Express SCSI card" and found this. Used, it
isn't too bad:
But I doubt that Adaptec is the only manufacturer who is truncating
their driver support. It suggests to me that a modern, Window 7
system running an Intel i5 or i7 CPU, probably doesn't need more than
one or two PCI slots. What cards can you put in those slots that will
be supported going forward?
A possible option is the Windows XP virtual system that works in some
versions of Windows 7.
Not a good situation, either way.
PRIVATE
<Luigi....@no.email.invalid> wrote:
>
>A'm in a similar boat here... I have a trusty HP ScanJet 4C with a 2906
>Adaptec scsi. I bought a PCI-E to PCI adapter for about 50 bucks
>(canadian):
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yhgudkj
>
>It worked and I was able to mount the PCI card on it, but sadly,
>Windows 7 will say there are no drivers available.
>
>Researching on the Adaptec site I found that they won't bother making
>Windows 7 drivers for this and a ton of other cards:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yevya5m
Check their website for Vista support.
Barry Watzman
card (68-pin connector), which introduces additional complications.
The 2940's will work if the PC has a PCI slot (most still do,
fortunately) and is running a 32-bit OS (XP or Vista-32; Win7-32 is not
yet confirmed to work but likely will, using the Vista driver). But
there is no 64-bit solution, as far as I know.
That leaves the question as to whether the card will work in Virtual XP
mode under Vista 64. I don't think it will, but that is just my
speculation. It would be nice to know for sure.
For the time being, I have enough peripherals that either won't run
under anything later than XP, or won't run on a 64-bit OS (no drivers),
or both, that I am likely to stick with dual boot.
PRIVATE
<Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>The SCSI card you listed, aside from being expensive, is a "wide SCSI"
>card (68-pin connector), which introduces additional complications.
>
Yes, I realize that.
>The 2940's will work if the PC has a PCI slot (most still do,
>fortunately) and is running a 32-bit OS (XP or Vista-32; Win7-32 is not
>yet confirmed to work but likely will, using the Vista driver). But
>there is no 64-bit solution, as far as I know.
And I sold off/trashed my 2940-series boards years ago!
>
>That leaves the question as to whether the card will work in Virtual XP
>mode under Vista 64. I don't think it will, but that is just my
>speculation. It would be nice to know for sure.
>
>For the time being, I have enough peripherals that either won't run
>under anything later than XP, or won't run on a 64-bit OS (no drivers),
>or both, that I am likely to stick with dual boot.
Me too. I have zero faith that I'll be able to use my Exabyte VXA-2
tape drive with Windows 7 64-bit.
x509