What's best for XP if IE locks up

[jigo]

I usually use Internet Explorer 8. IE not infrequently stops responding
completely, i.e., I can't even close it no matter what I do. The other
applications keep working; I can even start another IE session. What's
the safest course of action that won't foul up XP or anything else? Is
there a chance that exiting Windows with IE still open and locked will
cause problems?

[VanguardLH]

Start testing IE in its no add-ons mode for awhile. Could be you
installed an add-on to IE that is fucking up.

Another cause for lockup is poorly written Javascript, like have a tight
loop that either never exits, doesn't hit its exit condition, or is
simply processing such a huge list that it seems to be stuck in a
for-loop. You could temporarily disable scripting in IE, flush the TIF
cache, and retest visiting the problematic site.

You never mentioned if the problem occurs at one or a few sites, or
every site you have ever visited. Javascripting is on the rise as more
sites get enamored with AJAX, and there are good and bad programmers.

Have you tried disabling your security software (which you never
identified), like anti-virus or 3rd party firewall, and retest operation
of the web browser?

If IE is locked up, you could just open Task Manager and kill all
instances of iexplore.exe. You said IE was locked up, not the OS.

[jigo]

Many thanks for your suggestions. I did add LastPass a month or two
ago. How do you run IE in its no add-ons mode?
I think that you are correct that it may be due to bad Java script;
sometimes I get an error message to that effect.
The problem occurs seemingly at random sites; most load and work OK.
Often if there's a button in the site to submit something, it either
doesn't work or provokes a freeze.
A lot of problems occurred when CA installed their security suite (which
is free from Optimum). I could not boot my computer at all for a while;
I finally used the diagnostics to restore to the last working
configuration. CA uninstalled their suite, and at Optimum's suggestion
I installed Microsoft Security Essentials security software since they
said it should be most compatible with Windows. Actually I suspect the
woman who installed CA fouled up something. I hadn't thought of going
to Task Manager and ending the program that way. It's somewhat obscure
in this version. BTW, how do you flush the TIF?

[VanguardLH]

jigo wrote:

> I did add LastPass a month or two ago.

Okay, but what else? Did you go into IE to see what it lists for
add-ons?

Internet Options -> Programs -> Manage Add-ons

Make sure the "Show" selection is "All add-ons". You can probably
ignore all the Microsoft add-ons for now.

> How do you run IE in its no add-ons mode?

- Right-click on the desktop icon for IE.
- Or run:
"<path>\iexplore.exe" -extoff
where <path> is where IE got installed, usually C:\Program
Files\Internet Explorer.

> I think that you are correct that it may be due to bad Java script;
> sometimes I get an error message to that effect.
> The problem occurs seemingly at random sites; most load and work OK.
> Often if there's a button in the site to submit something, it either
> doesn't work or provokes a freeze.

Since LastPass works by interrogating the HTML code to find input forms,
like for username and password, and since a Submit button on a page is
associated with a form, then it's possible LastPass is interferring with
rendering the HTML or is stuck in its own code parsing the page.

> A lot of problems occurred when CA installed their security suite (which
> is free from Optimum).

So who is Optimum? Your ISP (Internet Service Provider)?

Computer Associates really did the install of their security product?
Not likely. More like is that YOU installed their security program
offered by your ISP.

> I could not boot my computer at all for a while;
> I finally used the diagnostics to restore to the last working
> configuration. CA uninstalled their suite, and at Optimum's suggestion
> I installed Microsoft Security Essentials security software since they
> said it should be most compatible with Windows. Actually I suspect the
> woman who installed CA fouled up something.

The "woman". Was this your ISP's tech rep or someone at Computer
Associates? Why didn't you just go to Add/Remove Programs and uninstall
the unidentified CA stuff from there?

Some security products provide a cleanup utility. You uninstall their
software and then run this cleanup tool to get rid of any remnants of
their software that their uninstaller missed. I wouldn't touch CA stuff
even if free so I have no experience with it. You can search around
their web site to see if their provide a cleanup tool.

http://av-comparatives.org/images/stories/test/ondret/avc_fd_mar2012_intl_en.pdf
av-comparatives.org doesn't even list CA. That might be because CA
performs so badly that it doesn't detect above 85% or CA requested not
to be included in the testing (to hide how bad they are).

http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/rap-index.xml
VB100's RAP graph (showing both reactive and proactive detection
coverage) but I don't see Computer Associates listed there or their
Inoculate or VET anti-virus engines. They're not even listed as a
vendor: http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/vendors. I suspect CA is
now using Forefront (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/931373) which is in
the RAP graph.

Actually I doubt that CA even develops their own anti-virus program.
Many vendors use someone else's engine and rebrands it as their own. CA
is noted for this: they are a software *publisher* that rebundles under
their name someone else's product. For example, some products use GData
as their AV engine. GData shows up in the comparatives but not the
rebranded version of it.

Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE) is a better choice but Avast and
Avira (also with free versions) are better. MSE is better at
disinfection but has less coverage. Avira and Avast are better at
coverage but less effective at disinfection. I prefer not letting the
pest dig into my system in the first place so detection is more
important than disinfection. Plus I do daily backups stored for over 2
months so often it is far easier to restore from a backup image than
waste my time trying to disinfect the computer and hope all of the pest
got eradicated AND without any side effects.

Have you installed any other programs AFTER you installed the CA
software? If not, you could try using System Restore. Hopefully their
install created a restore point you could go back to.

> I hadn't thought of going
> to Task Manager and ending the program that way. It's somewhat obscure
> in this version. BTW, how do you flush the TIF?

Internet Options -> General tab -> Delete (under Browsing History)

You could purge just the TIF cache but I normally delete everything.

[Joe Zeff]

On Fri, 11 May 2012 10:07:11 -0500, jigo wrote:

> The problem occurs seemingly at random sites; most load and work OK.
> Often if there's a button in the site to submit something, it either
> doesn't work or provokes a freeze.

Try installing Firefox, SeaMonkey, Opera or some other browser and doing
the same thing. If they lock up too, it's probably a problem with the
site; if not, it's IE.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
The only way to make that less secure would be to run all your
application launch events via sendmail.

[jigo]

VanguardLH wrote:
> jigo wrote:
>> I did add LastPass a month or two ago.
>
> Okay, but what else? Did you go into IE to see what it lists for
> add-ons?

Yes. There are a number of add-ons like Java and Adobe, but the system
was working fine with them until recently. (It's odd that it lists
LastPass as enabled but "not available.")

> Internet Options -> Programs -> Manage Add-ons
>
> Make sure the "Show" selection is "All add-ons". You can probably
> ignore all the Microsoft add-ons for now.
>
>> How do you run IE in its no add-ons mode?
>
> - Right-click on the desktop icon for IE.
> - Or run:
> "<path>\iexplore.exe" -extoff
> where<path> is where IE got installed, usually C:\Program
> Files\Internet Explorer.
>
>> I think that you are correct that it may be due to bad Java script;
>> sometimes I get an error message to that effect.
>> The problem occurs seemingly at random sites; most load and work OK.
>> Often if there's a button in the site to submit something, it either
>> doesn't work or provokes a freeze.
>
> Since LastPass works by interrogating the HTML code to find input forms,
> like for username and password, and since a Submit button on a page is
> associated with a form, then it's possible LastPass is interferring with
> rendering the HTML or is stuck in its own code parsing the page.

I could try that, but I don't think that's the problem. It started after
the CA installation. It has its faults, but a form filler like LastPass
is so damn convenient I'd hate to have to remove it.

>> A lot of problems occurred when CA installed their security suite (which
>> is free from Optimum).
>
> So who is Optimum? Your ISP (Internet Service Provider)?
>
> Computer Associates really did the install of their security product?
> Not likely. More like is that YOU installed their security program
> offered by your ISP.

No, I wanted to be sure they couldn't blame me for anything so I called
my service provider (Optimum/Cablevision), and they transferred me to
CA. A woman at CA took over my computer remotely and installed the CA
security suite.

>> I could not boot my computer at all for a while;
>> I finally used the diagnostics to restore to the last working
>> configuration. CA uninstalled their suite, and at Optimum's suggestion
>> I installed Microsoft Security Essentials security software since they
>> said it should be most compatible with Windows. Actually I suspect the
>> woman who installed CA fouled up something.
>
> The "woman". Was this your ISP's tech rep or someone at Computer
> Associates? Why didn't you just go to Add/Remove Programs and uninstall
> the unidentified CA stuff from there?

She was at CA. Whenever I called my ISP (Cablevision) about this, they
transferred me to CA. I must have talked to 7 or 8 people at CA (all
Indians). They all just reinstalled their suite and said everything was
fine. It was at the time but never stayed that way for long. It seems as
if the updates Windows installs automatically when you shut down at the
end of the day would foul things up, because it wouldn't boot the next
morning. I kept telling them this but it didn't seem to sink in.

I had CA uninstall it so that the liability remained with Cablevision/CA
to fix it. They can't truthfully accuse me of doing something that
caused the problem.

I just installed the Windows security after they uninstalled CA. I think
that Windows Security Essentials has a cleanup utility. What's become as
annoying now are the bugs that redirect you to another site when you try
to go to a site.

One of the techs installed Cleanup452 and TweakNow RegCleaner. Are they
or the cleanup tools that come with XP of any use in fixing such
problems? A "Restore Plus" DVD came with the machine. I don't know if
that can fix your startup system or if it reformats the whole hard drive
so you lose all programs and data. Or I think you can make your own boot
disk (You could on older systems).

[jigo]

Joe Zeff wrote:
> On Fri, 11 May 2012 10:07:11 -0500, jigo wrote:
>
>> The problem occurs seemingly at random sites; most load and work OK.
>> Often if there's a button in the site to submit something, it either
>> doesn't work or provokes a freeze.
>
> Try installing Firefox, SeaMonkey, Opera or some other browser and doing
> the same thing. If they lock up too, it's probably a problem with the
> site; if not, it's IE.
>

I have SeaMonkey installed and use it for email. Sites that lock up IE
work fine in SeaMonkey. I think I'd switch browsers but transferring
settings would be a lot of work. And some add-ons aren't designed to
work in SeaMonkey. I'm not sure if LastPass will. I tried copying it to
SeaMonkey using their (complicated) instructions, but it only copied the
Vault.

[Joe Zeff]

On Fri, 11 May 2012 16:28:54 -0500, jigo wrote:

> It seems as
> if the updates Windows installs automatically when you shut down at the
> end of the day would foul things up, because it wouldn't boot the next
> morning. I kept telling them this but it didn't seem to sink in.

They're reading off of a script, and don't know anything except what's on
the script. If the script tells them to reinstall the software, that's
what they're going to do whether it's appropriate or not because that's
what they're paid to do.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

What doesn't kill you makes a good story;
what does kill you makes you a legend.

[Joe Zeff]

On Fri, 11 May 2012 16:37:32 -0500, jigo wrote:

> I have SeaMonkey installed and use it for email. Sites that lock up IE
> work fine in SeaMonkey. I think I'd switch browsers but transferring
> settings would be a lot of work. And some add-ons aren't designed to
> work in SeaMonkey. I'm not sure if LastPass will. I tried copying it to
> SeaMonkey using their (complicated) instructions, but it only copied the
> Vault.

SeaMonkey has its own set of add-ons that are specifically designed to
work with it, just as Firefox does. You may be able to find equivalents
to all of the ones you're using if you check their site.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

Time to take away the Fischer Price Espresso Set

[VanguardLH]

They wouldn't waste the time to guide you through the installation.
They wouldn't waste the time to guide you through the uninstallation.
They installed a cleanup tool but for what purpose is unknown.
They installed a tweaker tool but for what purpose is unknown.
You haven't yet seen a pattern here? They're shotgun troubleshooting.
They haven't a clue what they're doing.

Have you yet tried running IE in its no add-ons mode?