Old books still worthwhile?

[Anonymous]

Hi listers. Is an old (1998-2004) book on C++ still worthwhile? They're much
cheaper than newer ones obviously. Has C++ changed that much since then? I
would like to start learning it and I thought an old book if it was good
would be better than the new barely legible "international editions" they
are selling for even more money. Thanks for your comments.

Cheers,

Bill Walker

[Francis Glassborow]

Most of those old cheap books were pretty worthless when they were
originally published. There are a very few good books for C++ novices
and price has little to do with it. Exactly which book will be best for
you depends on your computing background.

You are quite correct in supposing that a good book from that era would
be better than many of the mediocre books currently published but not
because of price.

Any edition of 'The C++ Primer' would be better than 95% of books for
novices whatever their price or date of publication but the latest
edition would be money well spent.

If you have other titles in mind ask about them rather than ask for
blanket advice of old versus new.


Francis

[Ben Bacarisse]

Do you mean "C++ Primer" by Lippman (and others for the later editions)?
If so, a word of warning to the OP: your "any edition" does not, in my
option, include the first. It is so old and covers such an old version
of the language that I'd avoid it.

<snip>
--
Ben.

[Anonymous]

Francis Glassborow <francis.g...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 15/08/2012 15:05, Anonymous wrote:
> > Hi listers. Is an old (1998-2004) book on C++ still worthwhile? They're much
> > cheaper than newer ones obviously. Has C++ changed that much since then? I
> > would like to start learning it and I thought an old book if it was good
> > would be better than the new barely legible "international editions" they
> > are selling for even more money. Thanks for your comments.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bill Walker
> >
>
> Most of those old cheap books were pretty worthless when they were
> originally published. There are a very few good books for C++ novices
> and price has little to do with it. Exactly which book will be best for
> you depends on your computing background.

I've been programming in non-C types of languages for almost 17 years. I use
PL/I at work and I used Pascal back in the DOS days. I know a few scripting
languages like bash and perl. I understand OO concepts (not like an expert
but most of the ideas are not foreign to me) but I never learned Java or
C++. I'll be using the book I get to try and learn C++ on Linux.

> Any edition of 'The C++ Primer' would be better than 95% of books for
> novices whatever their price or date of publication but the latest
> edition would be money well spent.

Thanks I will look for that one. Is that the same as C++ Primer Plus? I get
confused with all the plussing, that is the only minus..

> If you have other titles in mind ask about them rather than ask for
> blanket advice of old versus new.

I was wondering about books from Nell Dale because I used a few of her
Pascal books. She has a very approachable writing style and explains things
pretty well. I don't know any of the C++ writers. I think she has books on
Data Structures with C++, Java, etc. I thought maybe they would be good
since she teaches that stuff. I bought the C++ Programming Language
(international disappearing ink edition) but it was too heavy to lift and
doesn't even teach the language, it looks more like a reference I will save
for later. Hopefully I will eventually have a use for it.

Thank you.

Bill Walker

[Vincenzo Mercuri]

Frankly, the best books on C++ have been written in those years, more or
less. A few exceptions are the following (essentially due to the release
of the new Standard, the C++11):

http://www.amazon.com/Primer-5th-Edition-Stanley-Lippman/dp/0321714113/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/The-Standard-Library-Tutorial-Reference/dp/0321623215/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/C-Concurrency-Action-Practical-Multithreading/dp/1933988770/ref=pd_sim_b_3

And "The C++ Programming Language, 4th edition" (B. Stroustrup)
coming by the beginning of the next year :)
http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Language-4th-Bjarne-Stroustrup/dp/0321563840/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345059125&sr=1-3&keywords=the+c%2B%2B+programming+language

If you type "C++" in the search bar at this site:
http://accu.org/index.php?module=bookreviews&func=search

you will find many titles on C++, many of them have been reviewed by
Francis Glassborow, the same person who replied to your message.

--
Vincenzo Mercuri

[Francis Glassborow]

On 15/08/2012 20:53, Anonymous wrote:
> Francis Glassborow <francis.g...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 15/08/2012 15:05, Anonymous wrote:
>>> Hi listers. Is an old (1998-2004) book on C++ still worthwhile? They're much
>>> cheaper than newer ones obviously. Has C++ changed that much since then? I
>>> would like to start learning it and I thought an old book if it was good
>>> would be better than the new barely legible "international editions" they
>>> are selling for even more money. Thanks for your comments.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Bill Walker
>>>
>>
>> Most of those old cheap books were pretty worthless when they were
>> originally published. There are a very few good books for C++ novices
>> and price has little to do with it. Exactly which book will be best for
>> you depends on your computing background.
>
> I've been programming in non-C types of languages for almost 17 years. I use
> PL/I at work and I used Pascal back in the DOS days. I know a few scripting
> languages like bash and perl. I understand OO concepts (not like an expert
> but most of the ideas are not foreign to me) but I never learned Java or
> C++. I'll be using the book I get to try and learn C++ on Linux.
>
>> Any edition of 'The C++ Primer' would be better than 95% of books for
>> novices whatever their price or date of publication but the latest
>> edition would be money well spent.
>
> Thanks I will look for that one. Is that the same as C++ Primer Plus? I get
> confused with all the plussing, that is the only minus..

No the books are quite different, in this case the 'plus' is definitely
a minus :). I agree with Ben re the 1st edition of 'The C++ Primer' but
that is more than 20 years old. My personal choice would be the just
released 5th edition which is right up to date (you will need GCC 4.7
for some of the examples)

>
>> If you have other titles in mind ask about them rather than ask for
>> blanket advice of old versus new.
>
> I was wondering about books from Nell Dale because I used a few of her
> Pascal books. She has a very approachable writing style and explains things
> pretty well. I don't know any of the C++ writers. I think she has books on
> Data Structures with C++, Java, etc. I thought maybe they would be good
> since she teaches that stuff. I bought the C++ Programming Language
> (international disappearing ink edition) but it was too heavy to lift and
> doesn't even teach the language, it looks more like a reference I will save
> for later. Hopefully I will eventually have a use for it.

A pity you bought that because the 5th edition is due out early next
year and Bjarne Stroustrup effectively completely rewrites the book for
each new edition. But you are right in that it is not a book to learn
the language from (though he originally based the first edition on 'The
C Programming Language by Kernighan and Ritchie whose book is still
often recommended to those wanting to learn C (don't go there if you
want to learn C++).

There are quite a few other good tutorial texts on C++ but the latest
release of the language has many enhancements and you really would
benefit from a book written to use them and most good authors have yet
to release editions for the current release of C++.

Francis

[Nomen Nescio]

Francis and Ben, thanks for the information and assistance.

I'll try to find a copy of C++ Primer by Lippman then.

Cheers,

Bill

[William Kilpatrick]

I have always wanted to learn modern programming languages. I used to be a computer engineering major but switch to civil for personal reasons. I still have an interest in programming. I blew through QBasic in High School and I recently checked out some C books from the campus library. The problem is I can't really find a good C compiler for windows 7.

I know Ubuntu and other Unix based distros have some sort of C compiler, but it seems like a hassle. Is C relevant anymore? Or should I just skip over to C++? I've gone through a few of Bucky's tutorials and it all seems very similar to basic, so I guess what I'm really asking is will I miss anything super important by just jumping to C++?

-Bill K

[ralph]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 05:36:12 -0700 (PDT), William Kilpatrick
<bi...@darkada.com> wrote:

>I have always wanted to learn modern programming languages.

"Modern"? Perhaps you might be more interested in something other than
C or C++. There is a vast range of "modern" stuff out there.
(That's sure to rile someone. <bg>)

>I used to be a computer engineering major but switch to civil for
>personal reasons. I still have an interest in programming. I blew
> through QBasic in High School and I recently checked out some
>C books from the campus library. The problem is I can't really
> find a good C compiler for windows 7.
>

What might be confusing you is that most mainstream "C++ Compilers"
are also "C Compilers", but don't necessary say that up front. They
default depending on file extension and/or command line options.

[Not to be confused with compiling C code with a C++ compiler. They
are full-blown separate C compilers.]

A 'free' C compiler comes with the easily obtained Visual C++ Express,
and GCC.

>I know Ubuntu and other Unix based distros have some sort of C
>compiler, but it seems like a hassle. Is C relevant anymore? Or
>should I just skip over to C++? I've gone through a few of Bucky's
>tutorials and it all seems very similar to basic, so I guess what I'm
> really asking is will I miss anything super important by just
> jumping to C++?
>

C is certainly "relevant". Depends on what you are planning to create.
The principle difference between C and C++ is that C++ is designed to
facilitate object-oriented programming. (Which isn't to say you
couldn't implement an OO design using C, or a data-oriented design
using C++.) So what do you want to do?

-ralph

[William Kilpatrick]

Thanks for the quick response Ralph. I don't yet have a specific need or primary goal, although I know at some point I would like to write PC video games for friends and family. Nothing large, just couch co-op style games. I don't know of too many out there, most people go for first person stuff and need multiple PCs to play together.

Would C++ be a good language for this?

-Bill

[luka]

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:00:29 +0200
Vincenzo Mercuri <vincenzo...@yahoo.it> wrote:

[...]

> Frankly, the best books on C++ have been written in those years, more
> or less. A few exceptions are the following (essentially due to the
> release of the new Standard, the C++11):
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Primer-5th-Edition-Stanley-Lippman/dp/0321714113/ref=pd_sim_b_3
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Standard-Library-Tutorial-Reference/dp/0321623215/ref=pd_sim_b_3
> http://www.amazon.com/C-Concurrency-Action-Practical-Multithreading/dp/1933988770/ref=pd_sim_b_3
>
> And "The C++ Programming Language, 4th edition" (B. Stroustrup)
> coming by the beginning of the next year :)
> http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Language-4th-Bjarne-Stroustrup/dp/0321563840/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345059125&sr=1-3&keywords=the+c%2B%2B+programming+language

[...]

Scott Meyer's[1] books are highly recommended.

[1] http://www.aristeia.com/books.html

[ralph]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:43:50 -0700 (PDT), William Kilpatrick
<bi...@darkada.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the quick response Ralph. I don't yet have a specific need
> or primary goal, although I know at some point I would like to write
>PC video games for friends and family. Nothing large, just couch co-op
> style games. I don't know of too many out there, most people go
> for first person stuff and need multiple PCs to play together.
>
>Would C++ be a good language for this?
>

You're asking in a "C/C++" newsgroup. What answer besides "Certainly!"
can you be expecting? <g>

A PC Video Game is not a trival project. There are custom high-level
languages and libraries to make it easier. There can also be the need
to occasionally get down and dirty with hardware making knowledge of
ASM a valuable tool. Thus the range and scope of useful skills is wide
indeed.

However, you have to start somewhere and C++ is IMHO the best place to
start.

-ralph