I keep getting weird hardware failures and thought i'd replace my power supply just to be safe. Currently I've got a "700 WATT OEM ATX PSU REV2" anyonhe know if I can assume it's OK to buy a basic 700W power supply from Newegg or what do I need to keep in mind when finding a replace ment that will asuredly fit my tower? It's an Alienware AREA-51 7500-R3 (don't ask, worst money I've ever thrown away in my life and I've learned a *valuable* lesson) and I would like to be sure that a new PS will fit. Any advice is most welcome. Thanks.
>I keep getting weird hardware failures and thought i'd replace my power >supply just to be safe. Currently I've got a "700 WATT OEM ATX PSU REV2" > anyonhe know if I can assume it's OK to buy a basic 700W power supply from > Newegg or what do I need to keep in mind when finding a replace ment that > will asuredly fit my tower? It's an Alienware AREA-51 7500-R3 (don't ask, > worst money I've ever thrown away in my life and I've learned a *valuable* > lesson) and I would like to be sure that a new PS will fit. Any advice is > most welcome. Thanks.
I'm not familiar with alienware, but googling the 7500 I found a open chassis view of the base model of your system and it appears to contain a standard ATX format power supply. If so, that's a good thing. To be absolutely sure, you'd have to post the exact make and model number of the power supply so that we could verify the specifications of it.
But assuming for a moment that you need a new power supply that is ATX format, which specific power supply will work for you depends also on how your system is equipped. That particular model is SLI capable, but from what I read, two video cards is an option. In either case, you shouldn't need a 700W power supply, assuming that the power supply you buy is not crap. For one video card, 500W or more should do. For two video cards, you'll probably want 560-600W or a little more. Keeping that in mind, I'd recommend you try one of the following, if it must be from newegg:
Again, you do NOT need 700W to power your rig regardless of how it's equipped. So I suspect the original power supply is probably junk quality. That is, it probably outputs as much actual current as a good quality 550W or so. -Dave
> "Warren" <usenet1--ReMoVeM...@ransom.us> wrote in message > news:13tan72o7tvdq9e@news.supernews.com... >> I keep getting weird hardware failures and thought i'd replace my >> power supply just to be safe. Currently I've got a "700 WATT OEM ATX >> PSU REV2" >> anyonhe know if I can assume it's OK to buy a basic 700W power supply >> from Newegg or what do I need to keep in mind when finding a replace >> ment that will asuredly fit my tower? It's an Alienware AREA-51 >> 7500-R3 (don't ask, worst money I've ever thrown away in my life and >> I've learned a *valuable* lesson) and I would like to be sure that a >> new PS will fit. Any advice is most welcome. Thanks.
> I'm not familiar with alienware, but googling the 7500 I found a open > chassis view of the base model of your system and it appears to contain > a standard ATX format power supply. If so, that's a good thing. To be > absolutely sure, you'd have to post the exact make and model number of > the power supply so that we could verify the specifications of it.
> But assuming for a moment that you need a new power supply that is ATX > format, which specific power supply will work for you depends also on > how your system is equipped. That particular model is SLI capable, but > from what I read, two video cards is an option. In either case, you > shouldn't need a 700W power supply, assuming that the power supply you > buy is not crap. For one video card, 500W or more should do. For two > video cards, you'll probably want 560-600W or a little more. Keeping > that in mind, I'd recommend you try one of the following, if it must be > from newegg:
> Again, you do NOT need 700W to power your rig regardless of how it's > equipped. So I suspect the original power supply is probably junk > quality. That is, it probably outputs as much actual current as a good > quality 550W or so. -Dave
Thanks a lot for this. "junk" may be the operative word as this machine spent 1.5 years getting fixed by the manufacturer and I'm so sick of them that it's all on me now. I'll verify the PS, but the second may be a good choice. I use a GF 7950 GX2 (2 cards in SLI) and with a DUal COre Extreme X6800 CPU and a few other addins (Ageia PhysX card, etc) perhaps they though that 700W made sure I would always have enough power, but your assessment make be correct. that's still a pretty high rating for a PC.
I appreciate the help, if it's been mu power supply all along I'll be happy to stop blowing out parts, and it's worth the $$$ to replace it just to be safe.
> I keep getting weird hardware failures and thought i'd replace my power > supply just to be safe. Currently I've got a "700 WATT OEM ATX PSU REV2" > anyonhe know if I can assume it's OK to buy a basic 700W power supply > from Newegg or what do I need to keep in mind when finding a replace > ment that will asuredly fit my tower? It's an Alienware AREA-51 7500-R3 > (don't ask, worst money I've ever thrown away in my life and I've > learned a *valuable* lesson) and I would like to be sure that a new PS > will fit. Any advice is most welcome. Thanks.
I'd run diagnostics such as a RAM test and the HD mfg's I find it hard to fathom that a 700w supply would be underpowered
philo wrote: > "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message > news:fr4bf7$tcd$1@registered.motzarella.org... >>> I'd run diagnostics such as a RAM test >>> and the HD mfg's >>> I find it hard to fathom that a 700w supply would be underpowered
>> A 700W no-name power supply could easily be under-powered. -Dave
> Anything is possible of course... > but why buy a new PSU unless one has first at least tested the RAM and HD
I've tested both and they diagnostics report all is well. Due to numerous hardware failures over the past year (the manufacturer has replaced the motherboard twice, the memory, and basically replaced every component at least once so far) I am thinking my issue must be the power supply. I have no record of them replacing the PS, though I did mention to them that it might be the source of the issues (Alienware, in my experience, has the least knowledgeable or caring technicians I have met, they even sent a guy to my house to replace the MoBo once, then called me saying that he shouldn't have replaced it and that to maintain my warranty I would have to send the system back for them to check his work).
So, since they think they know better than someone who has normally built his own machines (I'm no master, but I know enough to do this), it seems that they may have overlooked the problem all this time. At least I hope that this is the issue and I can finally have a working machine. Every time it gets fixed, it works for a few weeks and then dies. So I am hoping that a faulty power supply is frying my components and I can finally get this all behind me and have a rig that works.
> philo wrote: > > "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message > > news:fr4bf7$tcd$1@registered.motzarella.org... > >>> I'd run diagnostics such as a RAM test > >>> and the HD mfg's > >>> I find it hard to fathom that a 700w supply would be underpowered
> >> A 700W no-name power supply could easily be under-powered. -Dave
> > Anything is possible of course... > > but why buy a new PSU unless one has first at least tested the RAM and HD
> I've tested both and they diagnostics report all is well. Due to > numerous hardware failures over the past year (the manufacturer has > replaced the motherboard twice, the memory, and basically replaced every > component at least once so far) I am thinking my issue must be the power > supply. I have no record of them replacing the PS, though I did mention > to them that it might be the source of the issues (Alienware, in my > experience, has the least knowledgeable or caring technicians I have > met, they even sent a guy to my house to replace the MoBo once, then > called me saying that he shouldn't have replaced it and that to maintain > my warranty I would have to send the system back for them to check his > work).
> So, since they think they know better than someone who has normally > built his own machines (I'm no master, but I know enough to do this), it > seems that they may have overlooked the problem all this time. At least > I hope that this is the issue and I can finally have a working machine. > Every time it gets fixed, it works for a few weeks and then dies. So I > am hoping that a faulty power supply is frying my components and I can > finally get this all behind me and have a rig that works.
Well I guess you may as well replace the supply then
hope the machine stays working !
Except for a machine that I built for my GF a few years ago. my machines are all pretty much made out of discarded or surplus parts.
One day I bought a *new* power supply. it lasted about 24 hours then went **POOF*** <G>
On Mar 11, 10:05 am, Warren <usenet1--ReMoVeM...@ransom.us> wrote:
> I've tested both and they diagnostics report all is well. Due to > numerous hardware failures over the past year (the manufacturer has > replaced the motherboard twice, the memory, and basically replaced every > component at least once so far) I am thinking my issue must be thepowersupply. > I have no record of them replacing the PS, though I did mention > to them that it might be the source of the issues
Replaced how many parts on speculation and fixed nothing? At what point do you 'follow the evidence' rather than replace parts on wild speculation. After all that labor, what was accomplished? Even the replaced parts may still be defective. Worse, nobody has yet to identify the actual failure. It's called shotgunning.
Two minutes with a multimeter would have identified the power supply 'system' (more than just a power supply) as 'definitively good' or 'definitively bad'. Currently your existing 'system' and a new supply both are 'unknown'. Two minute procedure is posted in "When your computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at: http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh Connector chart to locate each color: http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html
In your case, relevant part of the test occurs by maximizing load (multitasking to all peripherals) to measure voltage on any one of purple, orange, red, and yellow wires. Voltages must remain above 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7. If so, supply 'system' would not explain intermittent failures (that are not specifically defined).
It fails? How? Specifically what is the failure during when and with what numbers and error messages reported?
Of course other important information from system (event) logs and Device Manager were also verified and posted?
What diagnostics were performed? Obviously the most useful diagnostics execute without Windows.
What happens where parts are taken from cool (room temperature) to ideal operating temperature (when heated with a hairdryer on highest heat setting)? No I am being bluntly and technically honest. Any computer is happy when at those higher temperatures from a hairdryer on high. But defective (intermittent) computer hardware makes its defect obvious at those ideal temperatures.
Most computers consume less than 150 watts. A 300 watt supply is sufficient (if properly sized for each voltage). But many power supplies measure something different to declare that 300 watt supply as 450 watts. 500 watts would be more than sufficient. But when a computer assembler has no idea how electricity works, then assembler speculates: more watts is better - 700 watts. To dump supplies that are missing essential functions for higher profits into a market of the technically naive, the manufacturer proclaims even more watts while forgetting to provide some essential functions. IOW they maximize profits by selling inferior supplies with more watts to the naive. 700 watts is to be sure? Sure of what? More watts do not mean a better supply. 700 watts for an average load of less than 150 watts?
Where is the long list of functions required in all power supplies? That spec list gets forgotten when the large watt power supply sells at a lower price for higher profit. IOW the 'more watt' supply is the inferior supply - when designed to sell to the electrically naïve.
Is power supply sufficient? The above 'less than two minute' procedure answers that - and more. This post has numerous questions. Every one requires an answer since answers are also interrelated.
They used shotgunning. Everything gets replaced and system is still defective. A classic example of why trained techs don't use shotgunning; but untrained A+ Certified tech do.
w_tom wrote: > On Mar 11, 10:05 am, Warren <usenet1--ReMoVeM...@ransom.us> wrote: >> I've tested both and they diagnostics report all is well. Due to >> numerous hardware failures over the past year (the manufacturer has >> replaced the motherboard twice, the memory, and basically replaced every >> component at least once so far) I am thinking my issue must be thepowersupply. >> I have no record of them replacing the PS, though I did mention >> to them that it might be the source of the issues
> Replaced how many parts on speculation and fixed nothing? At what > point do you 'follow the evidence' rather than replace parts on wild > speculation. After all that labor, what was accomplished? Even the > replaced parts may still be defective. Worse, nobody has yet to > identify the actual failure. It's called shotgunning.
> Two minutes with a multimeter would have identified the power supply > 'system' (more than just a power supply) as 'definitively good' or > 'definitively bad'. Currently your existing 'system' and a new supply > both are 'unknown'. Two minute procedure is posted in "When your > computer dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the > newsgroup alt.windows-xp at: > http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh > Connector chart to locate each color: > http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html
> In your case, relevant part of the test occurs by maximizing load > (multitasking to all peripherals) to measure voltage on any one of > purple, orange, red, and yellow wires. Voltages must remain above > 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7. If so, supply 'system' would not explain > intermittent failures (that are not specifically defined).
> It fails? How? Specifically what is the failure during when and > with what numbers and error messages reported?
> Of course other important information from system (event) logs and > Device Manager were also verified and posted?
> What diagnostics were performed? Obviously the most useful > diagnostics execute without Windows.
> What happens where parts are taken from cool (room temperature) to > ideal operating temperature (when heated with a hairdryer on highest > heat setting)? No I am being bluntly and technically honest. Any > computer is happy when at those higher temperatures from a hairdryer > on high. But defective (intermittent) computer hardware makes its > defect obvious at those ideal temperatures.
> Most computers consume less than 150 watts. A 300 watt supply is > sufficient (if properly sized for each voltage). But many power > supplies measure something different to declare that 300 watt supply > as 450 watts. 500 watts would be more than sufficient. But when a > computer assembler has no idea how electricity works, then assembler > speculates: more watts is better - 700 watts. To dump supplies that > are missing essential functions for higher profits into a market of > the technically naive, the manufacturer proclaims even more watts > while forgetting to provide some essential functions. IOW they > maximize profits by selling inferior supplies with more watts to the > naive. 700 watts is to be sure? Sure of what? More watts do not > mean a better supply. 700 watts for an average load of less than 150 > watts?
> Where is the long list of functions required in all power supplies? > That spec list gets forgotten when the large watt power supply sells > at a lower price for higher profit. IOW the 'more watt' supply is the > inferior supply - when designed to sell to the electrically naïve.
> Is power supply sufficient? The above 'less than two minute' > procedure answers that - and more. This post has numerous questions. > Every one requires an answer since answers are also interrelated.
> They used shotgunning. Everything gets replaced and system is still > defective. A classic example of why trained techs don't use > shotgunning; but untrained A+ Certified tech do.
I'm assuming you are right. No one at Alienware ever gave me a straight answer about the machine, and I think they just kept swapping out parts until they got it to work and they sent it back to me hoping it wouldn't break again. IMHO I got pretty much the worst service I've ever seen from their technicians, even the higher ups that they supposedly escalated the issue to (yeah, right).
Personally, I'm not as skilled as you in terms of testing, so I'm forced to shotgun it. I'm swapping out the MoBo, which is definitely fried, and the PS. Hopefully that will do it, if not... I dunno.... But my drives and mem work fine, were tested, so that leaves pretty much the CPU and/or PS (or possible defective cards like vid, etc). I'm just willing to go this far monetarily and see if it helps. we'll see....
> "Warren" <usenet1--ReMoVeM...@ransom.us> wrote in message > news:13tan72o7tvdq9e@news.supernews.com... >> I keep getting weird hardware failures and thought i'd replace my >> power supply just to be safe. Currently I've got a "700 WATT OEM ATX >> PSU REV2" >> anyonhe know if I can assume it's OK to buy a basic 700W power supply >> from Newegg or what do I need to keep in mind when finding a replace >> ment that will asuredly fit my tower? It's an Alienware AREA-51 >> 7500-R3 (don't ask, worst money I've ever thrown away in my life and >> I've learned a *valuable* lesson) and I would like to be sure that a >> new PS will fit. Any advice is most welcome. Thanks.
> I'm not familiar with alienware, but googling the 7500 I found a open > chassis view of the base model of your system and it appears to contain > a standard ATX format power supply. If so, that's a good thing. To be > absolutely sure, you'd have to post the exact make and model number of > the power supply so that we could verify the specifications of it.
> But assuming for a moment that you need a new power supply that is ATX > format, which specific power supply will work for you depends also on > how your system is equipped. That particular model is SLI capable, but > from what I read, two video cards is an option. In either case, you > shouldn't need a 700W power supply, assuming that the power supply you > buy is not crap. For one video card, 500W or more should do. For two > video cards, you'll probably want 560-600W or a little more. Keeping > that in mind, I'd recommend you try one of the following, if it must be > from newegg:
> Again, you do NOT need 700W to power your rig regardless of how it's > equipped. So I suspect the original power supply is probably junk > quality. That is, it probably outputs as much actual current as a good > quality 550W or so. -Dave
but it's discontinued. the form factor looks different than the ones you suggested, any ideas if they might fit or how I can determine which PS I should get to replace this one if those don't? (BTW, I have 2 vid cards in SLI mode, so I'd go for the higher output one).
On Mar 12, 3:34 pm, War <hgdxjgckghck...@asdf.com> wrote:
> Personally, I'm not as skilled as you in terms of testing, so I'm forced > to shotgun it. I'm swapping out the MoBo, which is definitely fried, and > the PS. Hopefully that will do it, if not... I dunno.... But my drives > and mem work fine, were tested, so that leaves pretty much the CPU > and/or PS (or possible defective cards like vid, etc). I'm just willing > to go this far monetarily and see if it helps. we'll see....
What is this skill? The entire 'skill' comes from newsgroup replies if and when you perform those simple tasks that result in facts and numbers. Tasks that result in useful replies. Repair things to learn. However this post again teaches nothing because the two minute procedure was not performed AND you are still using shotgun reasoning.
I see no reason to conclude a motherboard is fried. That conclusion apparently comes from defective reasoning. The point. You have concluded without any fact to justify that conclusion. Your replies (and therefore what you learn) will only be as useful as facts (numbers) provided. So far, my reply is again unhelpful because facts and numbers were not provided. Is the motherboard fried? Those who can say will post no useful replies until facts are apparent.
Get the meter. A multimeter is so complex that only K-mart shoppers are intelligent enough to use one. Yes, black humor. Do what the two minute procedure defines. Then post those numbers. Posting takes longer than getting those numbers. Resulting reply is facts based upon numbers - no wild speculation - no money wasted on shotgunning. What is defined repeatedly in CSI - "follow the evidence". How many hear that in CSI and still never understand? We learn by doing. Currently are zero reasons to believe motherboard is defective - which is obvious if when that CSI expression is understood.
Just because something works one place does not mean it works OK. Even a defective power supply can boot one computer but not work in another becauase the supply was always defective in both. You are thinking in binary terms - something is either good or bad. Things are either good, bad, or unknown. How do we know this? Why does every military academy graduate everyone with engineering training? Military also needs people who can solve problems - people who learn by making things work.
Disk drive typically does not cause computer failures. Just one of a long list of things to be learned by doing now what that previous post recommended - and if you do not shotgun..
Well, this post could have moved forward. But your last post did not answer simple questions. You probably will not get a better trained source. Again I do nothing for you because you provided nothing to work with. Answer obvious questions and perform the simple two minute procedure to reap fruit in the next reply - and also to learn.
It fails? How? Specifically what is the failure during when and with what numbers and error messages reported?
Of course other important information from system (event) logs and Device Manager were also verified and posted?
What diagnostics were performed? Obviously the most useful diagnostics execute without Windows.
Zero reasons say motherboard is fried. What do we know? Everything is still at various degrees of 'unknown' meaning labor has still accomplished nothing useful. Nothing says anything is yet 'definitively good'. Nothing says a motherboard is fried.
w_tom wrote: > On Mar 12, 3:34 pm, War <hgdxjgckghck...@asdf.com> wrote: >> Personally, I'm not as skilled as you in terms of testing, so I'm forced >> to shotgun it. I'm swapping out the MoBo, which is definitely fried, and >> the PS. Hopefully that will do it, if not... I dunno.... But my drives >> and mem work fine, were tested, so that leaves pretty much the CPU >> and/or PS (or possible defective cards like vid, etc). I'm just willing >> to go this far monetarily and see if it helps. we'll see....
> What is this skill? The entire 'skill' comes from newsgroup > replies if and when you perform those simple tasks that result in > facts and numbers. Tasks that result in useful replies. Repair > things to learn. However this post again teaches nothing because the > two minute procedure was not performed AND you are still using shotgun > reasoning.
> I see no reason to conclude a motherboard is fried. That conclusion > apparently comes from defective reasoning. The point. You have > concluded without any fact to justify that conclusion. Your replies > (and therefore what you learn) will only be as useful as facts > (numbers) provided. So far, my reply is again unhelpful because facts > and numbers were not provided. Is the motherboard fried? Those who > can say will post no useful replies until facts are apparent.
> Get the meter. A multimeter is so complex that only K-mart shoppers > are intelligent enough to use one. Yes, black humor. Do what the two > minute procedure defines. Then post those numbers. Posting takes > longer than getting those numbers. Resulting reply is facts based > upon numbers - no wild speculation - no money wasted on shotgunning. > What is defined repeatedly in CSI - "follow the evidence". How many > hear that in CSI and still never understand? We learn by doing. > Currently are zero reasons to believe motherboard is defective - which > is obvious if when that CSI expression is understood.
> Just because something works one place does not mean it works OK. > Even a defective power supply can boot one computer but not work in > another becauase the supply was always defective in both. You are > thinking in binary terms - something is either good or bad. Things > are either good, bad, or unknown. How do we know this? Why does > every military academy graduate everyone with engineering training? > Military also needs people who can solve problems - people who learn > by making things work.
> Disk drive typically does not cause computer failures. Just one of a > long list of things to be learned by doing now what that previous post > recommended - and if you do not shotgun..
> Well, this post could have moved forward. But your last post did > not answer simple questions. You probably will not get a better > trained source. Again I do nothing for you because you provided > nothing to work with. Answer obvious questions and perform the simple > two minute procedure to reap fruit in the next reply - and also to > learn.
> It fails? How? Specifically what is the failure during when and > with what numbers and error messages reported?
> Of course other important information from system (event) logs and > Device Manager were also verified and posted?
> What diagnostics were performed? Obviously the most useful > diagnostics execute without Windows.
> Zero reasons say motherboard is fried. What do we know? > Everything is still at various degrees of 'unknown' meaning labor has > still accomplished nothing useful. Nothing says anything is yet > 'definitively good'. Nothing says a motherboard is fried.
Well, for now, I can say that channel 1 & 3 on the SATA controller will not recognize any drives whatsoever. channels 2& 4 worked for a while, but have started to occasionally not recognize drives too, so that leads me to conclude that at least that part of the MoBo is dead/dying. the same drives/memory work just fine in another machine with no quirks and I've run tests/diagnostics on those items which confirm that they are working as expected, at least I got no errors from the runs. Data keeps getting corrupted on any drives connected in this machine (I've tried a few), but seem to work fine in other machines as well.
As for the meter, perhaps I'll have some time this weekend to go find one. In understand the point you are trying to make, and I appreciate your help, but you don't have to sound so hostile simply because you are talking to someone without your depth of experience. I'll keep digging though, thanks.
On Mar 12, 9:22 pm, War <hgdxjgckghck...@asdf.com> wrote:
> Well, for now, I can say that channel 1 & 3 on the SATA controller will > not recognize any drives whatsoever. channels 2& 4 worked for a while, > but have started to occasionally not recognize drives too, so that leads > me to conclude that at least that part of the MoBo is dead/dying. the > same drives/memory work just fine in another machine with no quirks and
These are symptoms typical of a defective power supply system. Things work here an not there: can be a power supply 'system' problem or can be due to other reasons. Without numbers, nobody can say anything 'definitively'. Are channels 1 & 3 defective? That conclusion can only be wild speculation without the numbers.
Nonthing in that post is hostile. Described is how technical problems are addressed - blunt, factual, with complete disregard to emotion, and ignoring how another's emotions might perceive it.. If it sounds hostile, then your preceptions are being applied to the text. IOW 'assuming' rather than sticking strictly to the facts. Does it specifically state something hostile? Again the same point. Assumptions are resulting in error. Relevant is only text which describes how to solve problems with contempt only for failures.
Provides was the best solution. How many others designed power supplies even 20 years ago? Get the meter so that one with knowledge can provide assistance.
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