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[UPDATE] Redo Backup and Recovery Beta at SourceForge
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Zo
Nov 19, 2012, 10:40:02 AM11/19/12
to
Easy rescue system with GUI tools for full system backup, bare metal
recovery, partition editing, recovering deleted files, data protection,
web browsing, and more. Uses partclone (like Clonezilla) with a UI like
Ghost or Acronis. Runs from CD/USB.
Beta Release: Last Update: 2012-11-01 ver 1.0.3 214.1MB
http://sourceforge.net/projects/redobackup/
Stable Version: 1.0.3 Released 2012-05-15
Home: http://redobackup.org/
No Installation Needed
Boots in Seconds
Works with Windows or Linux
Finds Network Shares
Access Your Files
Recover Lost Data
Easy Internet Access
Factory Drive Reset
Drive Configuration Tools
Complete Suite of Tools Included
In addition to the Redo Backup and Recovery imaging utility, the live
CD provides many essential GUI tools and command line utilities that
system administrators will find invaluable. Everyone from novices to
advanced power users are finding that Redo Backup makes life easier.
Once the iso is burned on to a cd, it's as easy as 1-2-3......
--
Zo
There was a man who entered a local paper's pun contest.
He sent in ten different puns, in the hope that at least one of the
puns would win.
Unfortunately, no pun in ten did
recovery, partition editing, recovering deleted files, data protection,
web browsing, and more. Uses partclone (like Clonezilla) with a UI like
Ghost or Acronis. Runs from CD/USB.
Beta Release: Last Update: 2012-11-01 ver 1.0.3 214.1MB
http://sourceforge.net/projects/redobackup/
Stable Version: 1.0.3 Released 2012-05-15
Home: http://redobackup.org/
No Installation Needed
Boots in Seconds
Works with Windows or Linux
Finds Network Shares
Access Your Files
Recover Lost Data
Easy Internet Access
Factory Drive Reset
Drive Configuration Tools
Complete Suite of Tools Included
In addition to the Redo Backup and Recovery imaging utility, the live
CD provides many essential GUI tools and command line utilities that
system administrators will find invaluable. Everyone from novices to
advanced power users are finding that Redo Backup makes life easier.
Once the iso is burned on to a cd, it's as easy as 1-2-3......
--
Zo
There was a man who entered a local paper's pun contest.
He sent in ten different puns, in the hope that at least one of the
puns would win.
Unfortunately, no pun in ten did
John Corliss
Nov 20, 2012, 1:17:48 AM11/20/12
to
Zo wrote:
> Easy rescue system with GUI tools for full system backup, bare metal
> recovery, partition editing, recovering deleted files, data protection,
> web browsing, and more. Uses partclone (like Clonezilla) with a UI like
> Ghost or Acronis. Runs from CD/USB.
>
> Beta Release: Last Update: 2012-11-01 ver 1.0.3 214.1MB
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/redobackup/
Or here:
> Easy rescue system with GUI tools for full system backup, bare metal
> recovery, partition editing, recovering deleted files, data protection,
> web browsing, and more. Uses partclone (like Clonezilla) with a UI like
> Ghost or Acronis. Runs from CD/USB.
>
> Beta Release: Last Update: 2012-11-01 ver 1.0.3 214.1MB
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/redobackup/
http://redobackup.org/
> Stable Version: 1.0.3 Released 2012-05-15
>
> Home: http://redobackup.org/
>
> No Installation Needed
> Boots in Seconds
> Works with Windows or Linux
> Finds Network Shares
> Access Your Files
> Recover Lost Data
> Easy Internet Access
> Factory Drive Reset
> Drive Configuration Tools
cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
--
John Corliss BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, share,
spy, time-limited, trial or web wares, OR warez for me, please: just
freeware- which I define as legally obtainable, local install computer
programs that can be used indefinitely at no cost, monetary or otherwise.
Poutnik
Nov 20, 2012, 1:48:58 AM11/20/12
to
John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
>
> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do incremental
> cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
and not file system level.
If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
making partition different, even if content remains the same....
--
Poutnik
Current way of spaced quoting by GoogleGroups is disaster,
if combined with no quoting by some GG users.
Bear
Nov 20, 2012, 5:20:14 AM11/20/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
>
>>
>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>
> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>
> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> and not file system level.
>
> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>
Of course there are.
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
--
Bear
http://bearware.info
Header Path: news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!
news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail
news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
>
>>
>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>
> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>
> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> and not file system level.
>
> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
--
Bear
http://bearware.info
Header Path: news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!
news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail
John Corliss
Nov 20, 2012, 11:22:15 AM11/20/12
to
Poutnik wrote:
ME days. Then when MS switched to the NTFS file system in XP, it no
longer was able to do so completely (was unable to copy files which were
in use.) So Pixelab came up with XXClone which uses Windows VSS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Copy
The free version of that program won't do incremental, but the $ware
version of it will.
I have two hard drives in my computer and I don't use RAID (although
this computer has that capability.) I much prefer to use XXCopy to clone
one drive onto another as a backup, but every once in a while I do a
full clone using the freeware version of XXClone.
It would be real nice if there was a freeware cloning program which used
VSS and could do incremental clones. However, that seems to be the holy
grail that programmers hold out on so that you'll pay for their
software. And I can't blame them for that either. Still, I can always
hope...
> John Corliss wrote:
>>
>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do incremental
>> cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>
> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>
> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> and not file system level.
>
> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
XXCopy used to be able to do full incremental clones back in the W98 and
>>
>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do incremental
>> cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>
> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>
> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> and not file system level.
>
> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
ME days. Then when MS switched to the NTFS file system in XP, it no
longer was able to do so completely (was unable to copy files which were
in use.) So Pixelab came up with XXClone which uses Windows VSS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Copy
The free version of that program won't do incremental, but the $ware
version of it will.
I have two hard drives in my computer and I don't use RAID (although
this computer has that capability.) I much prefer to use XXCopy to clone
one drive onto another as a backup, but every once in a while I do a
full clone using the freeware version of XXClone.
It would be real nice if there was a freeware cloning program which used
VSS and could do incremental clones. However, that seems to be the holy
grail that programmers hold out on so that you'll pay for their
software. And I can't blame them for that either. Still, I can always
hope...
Poutnik
Nov 20, 2012, 4:51:48 PM11/20/12
to
John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
posted Tue, 20 Nov 2012 08:22:15 -0800
>
> XXCopy used to be able to do full incremental clones back in the W98 and
> ME days. Then when MS switched to the NTFS file system in XP, it no
> longer was able to do so completely (was unable to copy files which were
> in use.) So Pixelab came up with XXClone which uses Windows VSS:
>
XXClobe I do not know, but with VSS is possible to make
partition sector cloning.
Poutnik
Nov 20, 2012, 4:52:49 PM11/20/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 20 Nov 2012 10:20:14 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >
> > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
> >
> >>
> >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
> >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
> >
> > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
> >
> > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> > and not file system level.
> >
> > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
> >
>
> Of course there are.
>
> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
is this efficient.
Poutnik
Nov 20, 2012, 5:10:51 PM11/20/12
to
Poutnik from pou...@privacy.invalid
posted Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:52:49 +0100
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 10:20:14 GMT
>
>
> >
> > Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> > news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
> >
> > >
> > > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> > > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
> > >
> > >>
> > >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
> > >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
> > >
> > > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
> > >
> > > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> > > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> > > and not file system level.
> > >
> > > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> > > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
> > >
> >
> > Of course there are.
> >
> > http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> is this efficient.
it did not impressed me so I returned to Macrium.
Either low comression,
Either slow compression speed
either overall lower performace
if differential backups.
Usualy there are some important features missing
in free versions, but for macrium it is not essential.
Poutnik
Nov 20, 2012, 5:14:31 PM11/20/12
to
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >
> > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
> >
> >>
> >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
> >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
> >
> > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
> >
> > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> > and not file system level.
> >
> > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
> >
>
> Of course there are.
>
> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
> news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >
> > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
> >
> >>
> >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
> >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
> >
> > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
> >
> > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> > and not file system level.
> >
> > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
> >
>
> Of course there are.
>
> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
Bear
Nov 20, 2012, 5:54:02 PM11/20/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b161a1f8f81f24db56
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 10:20:14 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>> >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>> >
>> > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>> >
>> > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>> > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>> > and not file system level.
>> >
>> > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>> > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>> >
>>
>> Of course there are.
>>
>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> is this efficient.
>
Depends on what works for you eh!
I do not find the need to perform incremental backups. When I decide to
make a permanant change to my system, I load my last clean image and
make the changes and re-image.
In between that, all of my data files and portable programs with all
their settings are backed up daily to an external HD. When I reload my
last clean image to make new updates, I do so...make the updates and
resync my data and portable files to the new image. No need for
incremental.
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 10:20:14 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>> >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>> >
>> > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>> >
>> > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>> > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>> > and not file system level.
>> >
>> > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>> > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>> >
>>
>> Of course there are.
>>
>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> is this efficient.
>
I do not find the need to perform incremental backups. When I decide to
make a permanant change to my system, I load my last clean image and
make the changes and re-image.
In between that, all of my data files and portable programs with all
their settings are backed up daily to an external HD. When I reload my
last clean image to make new updates, I do so...make the updates and
resync my data and portable files to the new image. No need for
incremental.
Bear
Nov 20, 2012, 5:54:36 PM11/20/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b161e52190d31cfb58
@news.eternal-september.org:
I agree.
@news.eternal-september.org:
Bear
Nov 20, 2012, 5:57:50 PM11/20/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b161f3...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 10:20:14 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>> >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>> >
>> > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>> >
>> > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>> > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>> > and not file system level.
>> >
>> > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>> > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>> >
>>
>> Of course there are.
>>
>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>
Differential and incremental backups are "smart" backups that save time
and disk space by only backing up changed files. But they differ
significantly in how they do it....
http://www.acronis.com/resource/solutions/backup/2005/incremental-backups.html
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 10:20:14 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b15464...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> > posted Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:17:48 -0800
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>> >> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>> >
>> > Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>> >
>> > Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>> > how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>> > and not file system level.
>> >
>> > If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>> > making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>> >
>>
>> Of course there are.
>>
>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>
and disk space by only backing up changed files. But they differ
significantly in how they do it....
http://www.acronis.com/resource/solutions/backup/2005/incremental-backups.html
Poutnik
Nov 20, 2012, 6:09:40 PM11/20/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
> >>
> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
> >
> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> > is this efficient.
> >
>
> Depends on what works for you eh!
>
> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
Poutnik
Nov 20, 2012, 6:11:01 PM11/20/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 20 Nov 2012 22:57:50 GMT
> >> Of course there are.
> >>
> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
> >
> > seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
> >
>
> Differential and incremental backups are "smart" backups that save time
> and disk space by only backing up changed files. But they differ
> significantly in how they do it....
Bear
Nov 20, 2012, 8:34:10 PM11/20/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b162c6...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 22:57:50 GMT
>
>
>> >> Of course there are.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>> >
>> > seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>> >
>>
>> Differential and incremental backups are "smart" backups that save
>> time and disk space by only backing up changed files. But they differ
>> significantly in how they do it....
>
> I suppose I need not to be told what they mean. :-)
>
>
>
So you know the answer to your questions.
news:MPG.2b162c6...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 22:57:50 GMT
>
>
>> >> Of course there are.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>> >
>> > seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>> >
>>
>> Differential and incremental backups are "smart" backups that save
>> time and disk space by only backing up changed files. But they differ
>> significantly in how they do it....
>
> I suppose I need not to be told what they mean. :-)
>
>
>
Bear
Nov 20, 2012, 8:34:46 PM11/20/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b162c1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>
>
>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>> >
>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>> > is this efficient.
>> >
>>
>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>
>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>
> Neither I do.
>
and Macrium is my preferred choice. It is the best :)
news:MPG.2b162c1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>
>
>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>> >
>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>> > is this efficient.
>> >
>>
>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>
>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>
> Neither I do.
>
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 20, 2012, 8:43:58 PM11/20/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
wrote:
>
>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>
>
>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>> >
>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>> > is this efficient.
>> >
>>
>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>
>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>
>Neither I do.
I do.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll inf�me
Taking a break from John Corliss
wrote:
>
>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>
>
>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>> >
>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>> > is this efficient.
>> >
>>
>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>
>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>
>Neither I do.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll inf�me
Taking a break from John Corliss
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest sind geschlossen! SA marschiert Mit ruhig festem Schritt Kam’raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen, Marschier’n im Geist In unser’n Reihen mit
Nov 20, 2012, 11:39:18 PM11/20/12
to
On Nov 20, 5:34 pm, Bear <bearbotto...@gmai.com> wrote:
> Poutnik <pout...@privacy.invalid> wrote innews:MPG.2b162c1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bear from bearbotto...@gmai.com
> Header Path: news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!
> news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail
THWERE IS NO BEST,ONLY WHAT YOU DECIDE AT ONE SPLIT SECOND IN ONE
LOCATION. THAT IS THE BESTESTEST. AS SOON AS YOU SHIFT IT IS NOT THE
BESTESTESTEST, IT IS PARTOF THE HURD. YOUR NEW FAVORITE APPIE IS THE
BESTESTEST.
> Poutnik <pout...@privacy.invalid> wrote innews:MPG.2b162c1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bear from bearbotto...@gmai.com
> > posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>
> >> >>http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> >> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> >> > is this efficient.
>
> >> Depends on what works for you eh!
>
> >> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>
> > Neither I do.
>
> and Macrium is my preferred choice. It is the best :)
>
> --
> Bearhttp://bearware.info
>
> >> >>http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> >> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> >> > is this efficient.
>
> >> Depends on what works for you eh!
>
> >> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>
> > Neither I do.
>
> and Macrium is my preferred choice. It is the best :)
>
> --
> Header Path: news.sunsite.dk!dotsrc.org!filter.dotsrc.org!
> news.dotsrc.org!not-for-mail
THWERE IS NO BEST,ONLY WHAT YOU DECIDE AT ONE SPLIT SECOND IN ONE
LOCATION. THAT IS THE BESTESTEST. AS SOON AS YOU SHIFT IT IS NOT THE
BESTESTESTEST, IT IS PARTOF THE HURD. YOUR NEW FAVORITE APPIE IS THE
BESTESTEST.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 1:36:10 AM11/21/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 21 Nov 2012 01:34:46 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:MPG.2b162c1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >
> > Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> > posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
> >
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
> >> >
> >> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> >> > is this efficient.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Depends on what works for you eh!
> >>
> >> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
> >
> > Neither I do.
> >
>
> and Macrium is my preferred choice. It is the best :)
"It is the best choice for all according to Bear",
than yes.
But, by chance, it is my choice too.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 1:37:50 AM11/21/12
to
p-0'0-h the cat from super...@furryfreeware.invalid
posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:43:58 +0000
>
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> >posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
> >
> >
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
> >> >
> >> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
> >> > is this efficient.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Depends on what works for you eh!
> >>
> >> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
> >
> >Neither I do.
>
> I do.
For dedication system partition such solution can be less efficient.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 4:17:03 AM11/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:37:50 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
wrote:
>For single partitions scenario I fully understand such need.
>For dedication system partition such solution can be less efficient.
Runs automatically in the background. Rarely notice it. I do file
backup, and use CVS as well.
There is no such thing as being too paranoid WRT backup.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme
wrote:
>For single partitions scenario I fully understand such need.
>For dedication system partition such solution can be less efficient.
backup, and use CVS as well.
There is no such thing as being too paranoid WRT backup.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
John Corliss
Nov 21, 2012, 4:24:24 AM11/21/12
to
Poutnik wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>>
> John Corliss wrote:
>>
>> XXCopy used to be able to do full incremental clones back in the W98 and
>> ME days. Then when MS switched to the NTFS file system in XP, it no
>> longer was able to do so completely (was unable to copy files which were
>> in use.) So Pixelab came up with XXClone which uses Windows VSS:
>>
> But it is cloning on FS level, i.e. not what I had in mind.
> XXClobe I do not know, but with VSS is possible to make
> partition sector cloning.
That's why I mentioned this one a couple of days ago:
>> ME days. Then when MS switched to the NTFS file system in XP, it no
>> longer was able to do so completely (was unable to copy files which were
>> in use.) So Pixelab came up with XXClone which uses Windows VSS:
>>
> But it is cloning on FS level, i.e. not what I had in mind.
> XXClobe I do not know, but with VSS is possible to make
> partition sector cloning.
http://www.runtime.org/shadow-copy.htm
John Corliss (ES)
Nov 21, 2012, 4:29:58 AM11/21/12
to
Poutnik wrote:
> Bear wrote:
>> Poutnik wrote:
>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>
>> Poutnik wrote:
>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>
>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>
>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>> and not file system level.
>>>
>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>
>> Of course there are.
>>
>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>
>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>
>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>> and not file system level.
>>>
>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>
>> Of course there are.
>>
>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>
> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:02:28 AM11/21/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b1694c...@news.eternal-september.org:
> But, by chance, it is my choice too.
So if you don't think it is the best, why wouldn't you use what you
determine is the best. There are actually three top programs worthy of
listing as the best in this category. The one with the most features has
usability issues the one with less features doesn't have. If the task is
purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
restore.
news:MPG.2b1694c...@news.eternal-september.org:
> But, by chance, it is my choice too.
determine is the best. There are actually three top programs worthy of
listing as the best in this category. The one with the most features has
usability issues the one with less features doesn't have. If the task is
purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
restore.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:03:49 AM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>
>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>> >
>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>> > is this efficient.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>
>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>
>>Neither I do.
>
> I do.
>
Why?
news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>
>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>> >
>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>> > is this efficient.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>
>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>
>>Neither I do.
>
> I do.
>
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:12:13 AM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:6s6pa8lkasii9cgum...@4ax.com:
> There is no such thing as being too paranoid WRT backup.
>
the system performs a major change is all you need. The portable programs
can take care of themselves with automatic daily backups to an external
drive folder or via SugarSync (or the like.)
Now I have several system images I keep if something goes south or that I
use for testing. One image is a factory fresh image (cleaned up concerning
bundles.) One is the factory image with everything I install on it. And one
running system image.
The problem with just keeping an original system image updated with
incremental backups is the day you realize it has become corrupt.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:13:10 AM11/21/12
to
"John Corliss (ES)" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:k8i6up$5ht$1
@dont-email.me:
> Poutnik wrote:
>> Bear wrote:
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>
>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>
>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>
>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>
>>> Of course there are.
>>>
>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>
>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>
> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>
It is basically the same thing silly. Just how it is managed is
different.
@dont-email.me:
> Poutnik wrote:
>> Bear wrote:
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>
>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>
>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>
>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>
>>> Of course there are.
>>>
>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>
>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>
> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>
different.
Message has been deleted
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 11:12:17 AM11/21/12
to
H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in news:k8it4b$cbn$1...@dont-email.me:
> On 21 Nov 2012 13:13:10 GMT, Bear wrote:
>
>> "John Corliss (ES)" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:k8i6up$5ht$1
>> @dont-email.me:
>>
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>> Bear wrote:
>>>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course there are.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>
>>>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>>>
>>> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>>>
>>
>> It is basically the same thing silly. Just how it is managed is
>> different.
>
> Exactly, basically the same, but completely different :-)
>
> For a differential backup, to restore you need the last full backup
> set and the last differential backup set in order to restore. For
> incremental backup, you need the last full backup and every
> incremental backup set in order to restore.
The software restores the incremental files automatically - no effort.
In the end, there is no effective difference...only in technique.
>
> I do an incremental image every day at lunch, and a full image every
> Friday, all scheduled. I use a payware product to do this BTW, because
> I could not find a freeware product that would satisfy my needs. This
> is for my Windows office computer, my needs are different on my Linux
> computer and the tools I need are included.
Very wise indeed. I have no need for incremental/differential backups. I
don't use installed software but for a few security tools.
All of my data files are auto-sync'd online and external HD. All of my
portable programs the same.
The only thing I need to deal with image wise are required updates and
when I make permanent changes to my system. I always do that on a clean
image then re-image. Very simple and effective.
Incremental/differential backups leave the possibility of corruption.
> On 21 Nov 2012 13:13:10 GMT, Bear wrote:
>
>> "John Corliss (ES)" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:k8i6up$5ht$1
>> @dont-email.me:
>>
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>> Bear wrote:
>>>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course there are.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>
>>>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>>>
>>> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>>>
>>
>> It is basically the same thing silly. Just how it is managed is
>> different.
>
>
> For a differential backup, to restore you need the last full backup
> set and the last differential backup set in order to restore. For
> incremental backup, you need the last full backup and every
> incremental backup set in order to restore.
The software restores the incremental files automatically - no effort.
In the end, there is no effective difference...only in technique.
>
> I do an incremental image every day at lunch, and a full image every
> Friday, all scheduled. I use a payware product to do this BTW, because
> I could not find a freeware product that would satisfy my needs. This
> is for my Windows office computer, my needs are different on my Linux
> computer and the tools I need are included.
Very wise indeed. I have no need for incremental/differential backups. I
don't use installed software but for a few security tools.
All of my data files are auto-sync'd online and external HD. All of my
portable programs the same.
The only thing I need to deal with image wise are required updates and
when I make permanent changes to my system. I always do that on a clean
image then re-image. Very simple and effective.
Incremental/differential backups leave the possibility of corruption.
Dave
Nov 21, 2012, 11:33:10 AM11/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:02:28 +0000, Bear wrote:
If the task is
> purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
> backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
> restore.
A backup program that won't restore...I can see why it makes the Bear
If the task is
> purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
> backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
> restore.
list of "Best".
Dave
--
Registered Linux User #444770
Fedora
Dave
Nov 21, 2012, 11:32:40 AM11/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:02:28 +0000, Bear wrote:
If the task is
> purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
> backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
> restore.
> purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
> backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
> restore.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 11:47:56 AM11/21/12
to
Dave <nodle...@fuse.net> wrote in news:k8ivo6$mn9$1...@dont-email.me:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:02:28 +0000, Bear wrote:
>
> If the task is
>> purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
>> backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
>> restore.
>
> A backup program that won't restore...I can see why it makes the Bear
> list of "Best".
>
> Dave
>
Macrium is the most reliable I've tested. Paragon has the best feature set,
though if you are not very careful with the settings you can create a non-
restorable image. Very frustrating for anyone getting familiar with the
program. Such possibility and the reliability and speed of Macrium keeps it
on top. That you don't understand this leaves you to the pain of ignorance.
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:02:28 +0000, Bear wrote:
>
> If the task is
>> purely full imaging, Macrium is the best. If you must have incremental
>> backup, Paragon is the best though beware, sometimes an image doesn't
>> restore.
>
> A backup program that won't restore...I can see why it makes the Bear
> list of "Best".
>
> Dave
>
though if you are not very careful with the settings you can create a non-
restorable image. Very frustrating for anyone getting familiar with the
program. Such possibility and the reliability and speed of Macrium keeps it
on top. That you don't understand this leaves you to the pain of ignorance.
Message has been deleted
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 2:34:19 PM11/21/12
to
H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in news:k8j9dm$pc2$1...@dont-email.me:
> On 21 Nov 2012 16:12:17 GMT, Bear wrote:
>
>> Incremental/differential backups leave the possibility of corruption.
>
> That's one of the big differences in incremental and differential
> backups. With incremental the possibility is that I will have to
> restore to sometime before the last backup. Could be Monday, could be
> later than that. With differential backups, if I have one backup go
> bad, if it's not the last one, then I'm good. The down side is the
> diff backups take progressively longer. For me a couple of days is no
> biggie, so I'm okay with it.
>
> That said, yes they do leave the possibility of corruption. On the
> Friday Backup, I rename the weeks and last Fridays backup and create a
> new set, just in that eventuality. One never knows. I always have at
> least 1 week and 1 day to fall back on.
>
> On Linux I do the same, however, files are backed up using a backup
> program, the system get's imaged less frequently as it tends to get
> changed far less often, and is far less vulnerable.
>
Such plans are good. Plans that preclude the possibility without any
possibility for data loss due to corruption or malware infection are the
best.
Is there any possibility with your plan that your system could become
infected and you save that infection to image?
What my plan does is preclude that possibility as I never image a system
that has been used. I always load a clean image, make the changes and
reimage. My data files and portable programs are always seperated from
the process and managed without imaging. If something happens to any of
those, I always have a clean set to fall back on. There is no
possibility for corruption.
> On 21 Nov 2012 16:12:17 GMT, Bear wrote:
>
>> Incremental/differential backups leave the possibility of corruption.
>
> backups. With incremental the possibility is that I will have to
> restore to sometime before the last backup. Could be Monday, could be
> later than that. With differential backups, if I have one backup go
> bad, if it's not the last one, then I'm good. The down side is the
> diff backups take progressively longer. For me a couple of days is no
> biggie, so I'm okay with it.
>
> That said, yes they do leave the possibility of corruption. On the
> Friday Backup, I rename the weeks and last Fridays backup and create a
> new set, just in that eventuality. One never knows. I always have at
> least 1 week and 1 day to fall back on.
>
> On Linux I do the same, however, files are backed up using a backup
> program, the system get's imaged less frequently as it tends to get
> changed far less often, and is far less vulnerable.
>
Such plans are good. Plans that preclude the possibility without any
possibility for data loss due to corruption or malware infection are the
best.
Is there any possibility with your plan that your system could become
infected and you save that infection to image?
What my plan does is preclude that possibility as I never image a system
that has been used. I always load a clean image, make the changes and
reimage. My data files and portable programs are always seperated from
the process and managed without imaging. If something happens to any of
those, I always have a clean set to fall back on. There is no
possibility for corruption.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 3:41:56 PM11/21/12
to
On 21 Nov 2012 16:47:56 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>Paragon has the best feature set,
>though if you are not very careful with the settings you can create a non-
>restorable image.
It's the user's fault then. Baloney. A backup program with known issues
>Paragon has the best feature set,
>though if you are not very careful with the settings you can create a non-
>restorable image.
gets on the Bear's bestest list. LMAO.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 3:47:12 PM11/21/12
to
On 21 Nov 2012 13:12:13 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:6s6pa8lkasii9cgum...@4ax.com:
>
>> There is no such thing as being too paranoid WRT backup.
>>
>
>This is true. However, if you only use portable programs, a full image when
>the system performs a major change is all you need. The portable programs
>can take care of themselves with automatic daily backups to an external
>drive folder or via SugarSync (or the like.)
>
>Now I have several system images I keep if something goes south or that I
>use for testing. One image is a factory fresh image (cleaned up concerning
>bundles.) One is the factory image with everything I install on it. And one
>running system image.
>
>The problem with just keeping an original system image updated with
>incremental backups is the day you realize it has become corrupt.
Microsoft image backup is very mature tech. They wrote VSS and related
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:6s6pa8lkasii9cgum...@4ax.com:
>
>> There is no such thing as being too paranoid WRT backup.
>>
>
>This is true. However, if you only use portable programs, a full image when
>the system performs a major change is all you need. The portable programs
>can take care of themselves with automatic daily backups to an external
>drive folder or via SugarSync (or the like.)
>
>Now I have several system images I keep if something goes south or that I
>use for testing. One image is a factory fresh image (cleaned up concerning
>bundles.) One is the factory image with everything I install on it. And one
>running system image.
>
>The problem with just keeping an original system image updated with
>incremental backups is the day you realize it has become corrupt.
technologies. I've used it to restore Exchange servers. vhd format is
very reliable. Macrium is a toy. HAND.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 3:48:41 PM11/21/12
to
On 21 Nov 2012 13:03:49 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>>> > is this efficient.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>>
>>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>>
>>>Neither I do.
>>
>> I do.
>>
>
>Why?
Set and forget. If shit happens, I lose < 1 day.
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>>> > is this efficient.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>>
>>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>>
>>>Neither I do.
>>
>> I do.
>>
>
>Why?
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 4:00:59 PM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:offqa85lq3os6g8kr...@4ax.com:
> On 21 Nov 2012 13:03:49 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>
>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik
<pou...@privacy.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>>>> > is this efficient.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>>>
>>>>Neither I do.
>>>
>>> I do.
>>>
>>
>>Why?
>
> Set and forget. If shit happens, I lose < 1 day.
>
corrupted system. There is no reason to lose anything - unless you are
Pooh.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 4:13:26 PM11/21/12
to
On 21 Nov 2012 21:00:59 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:offqa85lq3os6g8kr...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 21 Nov 2012 13:03:49 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>>news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik
><pou...@privacy.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>>>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>>>>> > is this efficient.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>>>>
>>>>>Neither I do.
>>>>
>>>> I do.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Why?
>>
>> Set and forget. If shit happens, I lose < 1 day.
>>
>
>With the potential to lose a lot more. Like imaging an incrementally
>corrupted system. There is no reason to lose anything - unless you are
>Pooh.
WTF are you talking about? Do you know?
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:offqa85lq3os6g8kr...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 21 Nov 2012 13:03:49 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>>news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik
><pou...@privacy.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>>>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>>>>> > is this efficient.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>>>>
>>>>>Neither I do.
>>>>
>>>> I do.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Why?
>>
>> Set and forget. If shit happens, I lose < 1 day.
>>
>
>With the potential to lose a lot more. Like imaging an incrementally
>corrupted system. There is no reason to lose anything - unless you are
>Pooh.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 4:15:04 PM11/21/12
to
p-0'0-h the cat from super...@furryfreeware.invalid
> There is no such thing as being too paranoid WRT backup.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 4:16:05 PM11/21/12
to
John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:24:24 -0800
> > But it is cloning on FS level, i.e. not what I had in mind.
> > XXClobe I do not know, but with VSS is possible to make
> > partition sector cloning.
>
> That's why I mentioned this one a couple of days ago:
>
> http://www.runtime.org/shadow-copy.htm
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 4:16:46 PM11/21/12
to
John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:29:58 -0800
>
> Poutnik wrote:
> > Bear wrote:
> >> Poutnik wrote:
> >>> John Corliss wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
> >>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
> >>>
> >>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
> >>>
> >>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
> >>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
> >>> and not file system level.
> >>>
> >>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
> >>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
> >>
> >> Of course there are.
> >>
> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
> >
> > seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>
> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 4:22:27 PM11/21/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 21 Nov 2012 13:13:10 GMT
> >> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
> >
> > I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
> >
>
> It is basically the same thing silly. Just how it is managed is
> different.
For file backuping/archiving
the differential and incremental approach makes much more sense.
I do especiallly with nostalgy remember
the great version archive format
of the old archiver jar32 from 1997.
It was compresing file differences and in the single archive
there were very efficiently stored
multiple versions of the whole big folder trees.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 4:24:00 PM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:srgqa89klfbdtqrja...@4ax.com:
> On 21 Nov 2012 21:00:59 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>
>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>news:offqa85lq3os6g8kr...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On 21 Nov 2012 13:03:49 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>>>news:hecoa85osks64vvbc...@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik
>><pou...@privacy.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>>>>>>posted 20 Nov 2012 22:54:02 GMT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Well, I am aware there are, but quastion is how much
>>>>>>> > is this efficient.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on what works for you eh!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not find the need to perform incremental backups.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Neither I do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why?
>>>
>>> Set and forget. If shit happens, I lose < 1 day.
>>>
>>
>>With the potential to lose a lot more. Like imaging an incrementally
>>corrupted system. There is no reason to lose anything - unless you are
>>Pooh.
>
> WTF are you talking about? Do you know?
>
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 4:26:58 PM11/21/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 21 Nov 2012 13:02:28 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:MPG.2b1694c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > But, by chance, it is my choice too.
>
> So if you don't think it is the best, why wouldn't you use what you
> determine is the best.
My alias for best differs from your aliad for best,
even if sometimes they have by chnace the same value. :-)
Paragon has differencial one, occording to the page.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 4:29:51 PM11/21/12
to
When you are ready feel free to back up your bullshit with empirical
argument.
John Corliss (ES)
Nov 21, 2012, 5:00:38 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik wrote:
>
> John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:29:58 -0800
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik wrote:
>>> Bear wrote:
>>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>>
>>>> Of course there are.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>
>>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>>
>> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>
> What do you mean by that ?
>
If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
>
> John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:29:58 -0800
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik wrote:
>>> Bear wrote:
>>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>>
>>>> Of course there are.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>
>>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>>
>> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>
> What do you mean by that ?
>
incremental, only differential.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 5:04:14 PM11/21/12
to
posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:00:38 -0800
>
> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
> incremental, only differential.
I have not reason to to trust vendor in that.
>
> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
> incremental, only differential.
John Corliss
Nov 21, 2012, 5:07:36 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik wrote:
>
> John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:24:24 -0800
>
>
>>> But it is cloning on FS level, i.e. not what I had in mind.
>>> XXClobe I do not know, but with VSS is possible to make
>>> partition sector cloning.
>>
>> That's why I mentioned this one a couple of days ago:
>>
>> http://www.runtime.org/shadow-copy.htm
>
> But partition backuping SW use it all the time.
Right. But by limiting the program I mention to only backing up say, the
>
> John Corliss from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:24:24 -0800
>
>
>>> But it is cloning on FS level, i.e. not what I had in mind.
>>> XXClobe I do not know, but with VSS is possible to make
>>> partition sector cloning.
>>
>> That's why I mentioned this one a couple of days ago:
>>
>> http://www.runtime.org/shadow-copy.htm
>
> But partition backuping SW use it all the time.
Windows folder, you can cut down total time it takes by a bunch.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 5:50:04 PM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:vphqa8tnjk12gmpfa...@4ax.com:
aside to see it. Cats aren't really that brite.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 5:52:15 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b176590fc7714e9b64
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 13:02:28 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b1694c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > But, by chance, it is my choice too.
>>
>> So if you don't think it is the best, why wouldn't you use what you
>> determine is the best.
>
> Read the above more carefully.
>
> My alias for best differs from your aliad for best,
> even if sometimes they have by chnace the same value. :-)
>
> Paragon has differencial one, occording to the page.
>
No, if a program satisfies your needs, you may look no farther. That
does not mean there doesn't exist a program that can be considered
superior when all features and functionality are examined and compared.
It is how one determines the best.
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 13:02:28 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b1694c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > But, by chance, it is my choice too.
>>
>> So if you don't think it is the best, why wouldn't you use what you
>> determine is the best.
>
> Read the above more carefully.
>
> My alias for best differs from your aliad for best,
> even if sometimes they have by chnace the same value. :-)
>
> Paragon has differencial one, occording to the page.
>
does not mean there doesn't exist a program that can be considered
superior when all features and functionality are examined and compared.
It is how one determines the best.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 5:53:19 PM11/21/12
to
"John Corliss (ES)" <q34w...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:k8jiu9$nri$1
@dont-email.me:
> Poutnik wrote:
>>
>> John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:29:58 -0800
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>> Bear wrote:
>>>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course there are.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>
>>>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>>>
>>> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>>
>> What do you mean by that ?
>>
>
> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
> incremental, only differential.
>
John, the end result is the same. Only technique is different so your
comment is virtually meaningless in function.
@dont-email.me:
> Poutnik wrote:
>>
>> John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:29:58 -0800
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>> Bear wrote:
>>>>> Poutnik wrote:
>>>>>> John Corliss wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess my only question then would be (as usual) does it do
>>>>>>> incremental cloning? Or at the least, incremental backup?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there incrementally cloning free programs ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Idea is for sure great, but I am not sure
>>>>>> how much it is useful, if to be done on partition level
>>>>>> and not file system level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we take into account e.g. defragmentation,
>>>>>> making partition different, even if content remains the same....
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course there are.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/
>>>>
>>>> seems doing differencial, not incremental backup.
>>>
>>> I was wondering if you were going to catch that.
>>
>> What do you mean by that ?
>>
>
> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
> incremental, only differential.
>
comment is virtually meaningless in function.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 5:54:51 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b176e4c3ae83fceb68
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:00:38 -0800
>
>
>>
>> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
>> incremental, only differential.
>
> I have not reason to to trust vendor in that.
>
it isn't a matter of trust...if you trust one's image you can trust the
other. Both work fine. I just prefer a different approach that does use
imaging but not incremental/differential.
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
> posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:00:38 -0800
>
>
>>
>> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
>> incremental, only differential.
>
> I have not reason to to trust vendor in that.
>
other. Both work fine. I just prefer a different approach that does use
imaging but not incremental/differential.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 6:07:29 PM11/21/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 21 Nov 2012 22:52:15 GMT
> >
> > My alias for best differs from your aliad for best,
> > even if sometimes they have by chnace the same value. :-)
> >
> No, if a program satisfies your needs, you may look no farther. That
> does not mean there doesn't exist a program that can be considered
> superior when all features and functionality are examined and compared.
> It is how one determines the best.
..put focuse on "considered" and "one".
> does not mean there doesn't exist a program that can be considered
> superior when all features and functionality are examined and compared.
> It is how one determines the best.
Such evaluation is limited to one/group who consider it
and to conditions and criteria that are applied.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 6:08:31 PM11/21/12
to
On 21 Nov 2012 22:50:04 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>>>>>With the potential to lose a lot more. Like imaging an incrementally
>>>>>corrupted system. There is no reason to lose anything - unless you
>>>>>are Pooh.
>>>>
>>>> WTF are you talking about? Do you know?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Obviously you haven't thought it through and you don't know.
>>
>> Obviously you haven't, and you are stalling while you make something
>> up. When you are ready feel free to back up your bullshit with
>> empirical argument.
>>
>
>Funny. It's already been explained. Of course you have to put your ego
>aside to see it. Cats aren't really that brite.
Then post your explanation, or post a MID because I can't see where it's
>>>>>With the potential to lose a lot more. Like imaging an incrementally
>>>>>corrupted system. There is no reason to lose anything - unless you
>>>>>are Pooh.
>>>>
>>>> WTF are you talking about? Do you know?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Obviously you haven't thought it through and you don't know.
>>
>> Obviously you haven't, and you are stalling while you make something
>> up. When you are ready feel free to back up your bullshit with
>> empirical argument.
>>
>
>Funny. It's already been explained. Of course you have to put your ego
>aside to see it. Cats aren't really that brite.
already been explained.
Unless you are too scared to face such a formidable adversary?
Come on, fess up, you have nothing to lose. Show us how 'brite' you are,
or continue to troll. I don't care. I win either way.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 6:09:40 PM11/21/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 21 Nov 2012 22:53:19 GMT
> >
> > If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
> > incremental, only differential.
> >
>
> John, the end result is the same.
> Only technique is different so your
> comment is virtually meaningless in function.
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 6:12:01 PM11/21/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 21 Nov 2012 22:54:51 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b176e4c3ae83fceb68
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >
> > John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
> > posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:00:38 -0800
> >
> >
> >>
> >> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
> >> incremental, only differential.
> >
> >
>
> it isn't a matter of trust...
I mean to take as valid what sayss vendor about product features,
>
> it isn't a matter of trust...
not about reliability of methods a/o products.
> if you trust one's image you can trust the
> other. Both work fine. I just prefer a different approach that does use
> imaging but not incremental/differential.
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 6:23:17 PM11/21/12
to
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:09:40 +0100, Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid>
wrote:
>> Only technique is different so your
>> comment is virtually meaningless in function.
>
>There is difference.
Depending on the method used to detect changed files there's the archive
bit issue to deal with for one thing. Especially if you are using
several backup programs.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme
wrote:
>> Only technique is different so your
>> comment is virtually meaningless in function.
>
>There is difference.
bit issue to deal with for one thing. Especially if you are using
several backup programs.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 6:39:32 PM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:l0nqa855qmjjgli4t...@4ax.com:
> I win either way.
What do you win?
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 6:40:26 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b177d1de28b0aecb69
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 22:52:15 GMT
>
>
>
>> >
>> > My alias for best differs from your aliad for best,
>> > even if sometimes they have by chnace the same value. :-)
>> >
>> No, if a program satisfies your needs, you may look no farther. That
>> does not mean there doesn't exist a program that can be considered
>> superior when all features and functionality are examined and
compared.
>> It is how one determines the best.
>
> ..put focuse on "considered" and "one".
>
> Such evaluation is limited to one/group who consider it
> and to conditions and criteria that are applied.
>
That is all that can be done. That does not mean it should not or cannot
be done.
@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 22:52:15 GMT
>
>
>
>> >
>> > My alias for best differs from your aliad for best,
>> > even if sometimes they have by chnace the same value. :-)
>> >
>> No, if a program satisfies your needs, you may look no farther. That
>> does not mean there doesn't exist a program that can be considered
>> superior when all features and functionality are examined and
compared.
>> It is how one determines the best.
>
> ..put focuse on "considered" and "one".
>
> Such evaluation is limited to one/group who consider it
> and to conditions and criteria that are applied.
>
be done.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 6:43:35 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b177da...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 22:53:19 GMT
>
>
>
>> >
>> > If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
>> > incremental, only differential.
>> >
>>
>> John, the end result is the same.
>
> That could be said than even about full backup.
True, though it isn't really necessary or prudent to spend the time
doing a full backup as often as incremental or differential backups are
made. That is why the concept was brought forth.
result is the same, as I explained.
news:MPG.2b177da...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 22:53:19 GMT
>
>
>
>> >
>> > If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
>> > incremental, only differential.
>> >
>>
>> John, the end result is the same.
>
> That could be said than even about full backup.
doing a full backup as often as incremental or differential backups are
made. That is why the concept was brought forth.
>
>> Only technique is different so your
>> comment is virtually meaningless in function.
>
> There is difference.
>
Yes Poutnik...there is a difference in technique as I explained. The end
>> Only technique is different so your
>> comment is virtually meaningless in function.
>
> There is difference.
>
result is the same, as I explained.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 6:44:43 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b177e2...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 22:54:51 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b176e4c3ae83fceb68 @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> > posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:00:38 -0800
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
>> >> incremental, only differential.
>> >
>> > I have not reason not to trust vendor in that.
>> >
>>
>> it isn't a matter of trust...
>
> I mean to take as valid what sayss vendor about product features,
> not about reliability of methods a/o products.
>
>> if you trust one's image you can trust the
>> other. Both work fine. I just prefer a different approach that does
>> use imaging but not incremental/differential.
>
> So do I.
>
>
You are a wise man.
news:MPG.2b177e2...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 21 Nov 2012 22:54:51 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b176e4c3ae83fceb68 @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > John Corliss (ES) from q34w...@yahoo.com
>> > posted Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:00:38 -0800
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> If you were going to catch that Paragon's program doesn't do
>> >> incremental, only differential.
>> >
>> > I have not reason not to trust vendor in that.
>> >
>>
>> it isn't a matter of trust...
>
> I mean to take as valid what sayss vendor about product features,
> not about reliability of methods a/o products.
>
>> if you trust one's image you can trust the
>> other. Both work fine. I just prefer a different approach that does
>> use imaging but not incremental/differential.
>
> So do I.
>
>
Poutnik
Nov 21, 2012, 7:07:18 PM11/21/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com posted 21 Nov 2012 23:40:26 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.2b177d1de28b0aecb69
> @news.eternal-september.org:
> >
> > ..put focuse on "considered" and "one".
> >
> > Such evaluation is limited to one/group who consider it and to
> > conditions and criteria that are applied.
> >
> That is all that can be done. That does not mean it should not or
> cannot be done.
That is not all.
> >
> > Such evaluation is limited to one/group who consider it and to
> > conditions and criteria that are applied.
> >
> That is all that can be done. That does not mean it should not or
> cannot be done.
The other thing that can and should be done
is to remember, what the best mean then.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 7:11:37 PM11/21/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b178b2...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com posted 21 Nov 2012 23:40:26 GMT
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b177d1de28b0aecb69
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> >
>> > ..put focuse on "considered" and "one".
>> >
>> > Such evaluation is limited to one/group who consider it and to
>> > conditions and criteria that are applied.
>> >
>> That is all that can be done. That does not mean it should not or
>> cannot be done.
>
> That is not all.
>
> The other thing that can and should be done
> is to remember, what the best mean then.
>
The best means that one program is better than another.
news:MPG.2b178b2...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com posted 21 Nov 2012 23:40:26 GMT
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b177d1de28b0aecb69
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> >
>> > ..put focuse on "considered" and "one".
>> >
>> > Such evaluation is limited to one/group who consider it and to
>> > conditions and criteria that are applied.
>> >
>> That is all that can be done. That does not mean it should not or
>> cannot be done.
>
> That is not all.
>
> The other thing that can and should be done
> is to remember, what the best mean then.
>
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 7:56:12 PM11/21/12
to
On 21 Nov 2012 23:39:32 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:l0nqa855qmjjgli4t...@4ax.com:
>
>> I win either way.
>
>What do you win?
I get to choose what animals we sacrifice at harvest festival.
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:l0nqa855qmjjgli4t...@4ax.com:
>
>> I win either way.
>
>What do you win?
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
telsar
Nov 21, 2012, 7:58:52 PM11/21/12
to
On 11/21/2012 1:34 PM, Bear wrote:
> H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in news:k8j9dm$pc2$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 21 Nov 2012 16:12:17 GMT, Bear wrote:
>>
>>> Incremental/differential backups leave the possibility of corruption.
>>
>> That's one of the big differences in incremental and differential
>> backups. With incremental the possibility is that I will have to
>> restore to sometime before the last backup. Could be Monday, could be
>> later than that. With differential backups, if I have one backup go
>> bad, if it's not the last one, then I'm good. The down side is the
>> diff backups take progressively longer. For me a couple of days is no
>> biggie, so I'm okay with it.
>>
>> That said, yes they do leave the possibility of corruption. On the
>> Friday Backup, I rename the weeks and last Fridays backup and create a
>> new set, just in that eventuality. One never knows. I always have at
>> least 1 week and 1 day to fall back on.
>>
>> On Linux I do the same, however, files are backed up using a backup
>> program, the system get's imaged less frequently as it tends to get
>> changed far less often, and is far less vulnerable.
>>
>
> Such plans are good. Plans that preclude the possibility without any
> possibility for data loss due to corruption or malware infection are the
> best.
>
> Is there any possibility with your plan that your system could become
> infected and you save that infection to image?
>
> What my plan does is preclude that possibility as I never image a system
> that has been used. I always load a clean image, make the changes and
> reimage. My data files and portable programs are always seperated from
> the process and managed without imaging. If something happens to any of
> those, I always have a clean set to fall back on. There is no
> possibility for corruption.
>
But, what if a plane crashed into your house, while your out, and its
completely destroyed. How would you recover?
--
Steal a little and go to jail, steal a lot and become King.
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
> H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in news:k8j9dm$pc2$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 21 Nov 2012 16:12:17 GMT, Bear wrote:
>>
>>> Incremental/differential backups leave the possibility of corruption.
>>
>> That's one of the big differences in incremental and differential
>> backups. With incremental the possibility is that I will have to
>> restore to sometime before the last backup. Could be Monday, could be
>> later than that. With differential backups, if I have one backup go
>> bad, if it's not the last one, then I'm good. The down side is the
>> diff backups take progressively longer. For me a couple of days is no
>> biggie, so I'm okay with it.
>>
>> That said, yes they do leave the possibility of corruption. On the
>> Friday Backup, I rename the weeks and last Fridays backup and create a
>> new set, just in that eventuality. One never knows. I always have at
>> least 1 week and 1 day to fall back on.
>>
>> On Linux I do the same, however, files are backed up using a backup
>> program, the system get's imaged less frequently as it tends to get
>> changed far less often, and is far less vulnerable.
>>
>
> Such plans are good. Plans that preclude the possibility without any
> possibility for data loss due to corruption or malware infection are the
> best.
>
> Is there any possibility with your plan that your system could become
> infected and you save that infection to image?
>
> What my plan does is preclude that possibility as I never image a system
> that has been used. I always load a clean image, make the changes and
> reimage. My data files and portable programs are always seperated from
> the process and managed without imaging. If something happens to any of
> those, I always have a clean set to fall back on. There is no
> possibility for corruption.
>
But, what if a plane crashed into your house, while your out, and its
completely destroyed. How would you recover?
--
Steal a little and go to jail, steal a lot and become King.
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:03:32 PM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:lttqa8thils8j67fo...@4ax.com:
> On 21 Nov 2012 23:39:32 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>
>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>news:l0nqa855qmjjgli4t...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> I win either way.
>>
>>What do you win?
>
> I get to choose what animals we sacrifice at harvest festival.
>
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 21, 2012, 8:09:23 PM11/21/12
to
On 22 Nov 2012 01:03:32 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:lttqa8thils8j67fo...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 21 Nov 2012 23:39:32 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>>news:l0nqa855qmjjgli4t...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> I win either way.
>>>
>>>What do you win?
>>
>> I get to choose what animals we sacrifice at harvest festival.
>>
>
>Humans in the list?
Where's the sport with turkeys. Come on over, the Wicca man will keep
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:lttqa8thils8j67fo...@4ax.com:
>
>> On 21 Nov 2012 23:39:32 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>>news:l0nqa855qmjjgli4t...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> I win either way.
>>>
>>>What do you win?
>>
>> I get to choose what animals we sacrifice at harvest festival.
>>
>
>Humans in the list?
you warm.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:10:42 PM11/21/12
to
telsar <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in news:k8jtci$nl2$3...@dont-email.me:
My laptop goes where I go. Besides, I have pristine images and datafiles
stored online. Otherwise, I would collect the insurance, and build a new
place. I have my camp till then. Did my car get ravaged too? Ah well,
car rentals work till a new purchase is made. Was my wife inside? Damn
the luck. Did my dogs make it outside in time? Damn the luck. What if I
were inside? Damn the luck.
Are you serious? To ask such a question? You are telling us by doing so,
you are not prepared my man.
stored online. Otherwise, I would collect the insurance, and build a new
place. I have my camp till then. Did my car get ravaged too? Ah well,
car rentals work till a new purchase is made. Was my wife inside? Damn
the luck. Did my dogs make it outside in time? Damn the luck. What if I
were inside? Damn the luck.
Are you serious? To ask such a question? You are telling us by doing so,
you are not prepared my man.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:13:50 PM11/21/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:ojuqa81cpfbnquuek...@4ax.com:
> Where's the sport with turkeys. Come on over, the Wicca man will keep
> you warm.
telsar
Nov 21, 2012, 8:35:21 PM11/21/12
to
really have a basic backup plan.
No your car, wife, dogs, cats, gerbils, chickens, goats, and milk cow
were all with you when the accident occurred and all your computer shit
was blown to smithereens.
Bear
Nov 21, 2012, 8:56:32 PM11/21/12
to
telsar <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in news:k8jvh0$7o6$1...@dont-email.me:
Of course. Did you not understand that my backups also exist outside of
my house and away from prying eyes? Fire...planes crashing into your
house, burglers, child destruction, James Bond, etc etc. Such is basic
101 knowledge. Have you ever read my security plan?
That being said, death nulls all.
my house and away from prying eyes? Fire...planes crashing into your
house, burglers, child destruction, James Bond, etc etc. Such is basic
101 knowledge. Have you ever read my security plan?
That being said, death nulls all.
George Washington Carver
Nov 21, 2012, 10:07:47 PM11/21/12
to
Bear, when did you stop lying to ACF?
Poutnik
Nov 22, 2012, 1:25:35 AM11/22/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 00:11:37 GMT
> >
> > The other thing that can and should be done
> > is to remember, what the best mean then.
> >
>
> The best means that one program is better than another.
Poutnik
Nov 22, 2012, 2:01:15 AM11/22/12
to
Poutnik from pou...@privacy.invalid
posted Thu, 22 Nov 2012 07:25:35 +0100
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 00:11:37 GMT
>
>
> > >
> > > The other thing that can and should be done
> > > is to remember, what the best mean then.
> > >
> >
> > The best means that one program is better than another.
>
> You confuse verbs to think and to be.
one program is better than all others,
not that one program is better than all others.
It is big difference.
It is like (some) people think this is most useful tool
versus this is most useful tool.
But again, I would agree with you
if you use BEST
as alias for
Best for all according to Bear ( or other chosen people )
p-0'0-h the cat
Nov 22, 2012, 3:23:51 AM11/22/12
to
On 22 Nov 2012 01:13:50 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:ojuqa81cpfbnquuek...@4ax.com:
>
>> Where's the sport with turkeys. Come on over, the Wicca man will keep
>> you warm.
>
>No. The Germans might not be so interested in Russia next time.
Don't worry, you won't live long enough for that to be an issue.
>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>news:ojuqa81cpfbnquuek...@4ax.com:
>
>> Where's the sport with turkeys. Come on over, the Wicca man will keep
>> you warm.
>
>No. The Germans might not be so interested in Russia next time.
--
p-0.0-h the cat
Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 5:22:50 AM11/22/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b17e3c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 00:11:37 GMT
>
>
>> >
>> > The other thing that can and should be done
>> > is to remember, what the best mean then.
>> >
>>
>> The best means that one program is better than another.
>
> You confuse verbs to think and to be.
>
Ah, I now see that you are not to be serious. I can understand a joke-r.
All this time and I merely thought you were confused.
news:MPG.2b17e3c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 00:11:37 GMT
>
>
>> >
>> > The other thing that can and should be done
>> > is to remember, what the best mean then.
>> >
>>
>> The best means that one program is better than another.
>
> You confuse verbs to think and to be.
>
All this time and I merely thought you were confused.
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 5:24:47 AM11/22/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b17ec1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> The best means that (some) people think
> one program is better than all others,
>
> not that one program is better than all others.
>
> It is big difference.
Not at all. The only way a program can be best is for people to determine
it is. Without people, it doesn't exist.
news:MPG.2b17ec1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> The best means that (some) people think
> one program is better than all others,
>
> not that one program is better than all others.
>
> It is big difference.
it is. Without people, it doesn't exist.
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 5:27:27 AM11/22/12
to
"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
news:32ora8tupldm3jqu6...@4ax.com:
> On 22 Nov 2012 01:13:50 GMT, Bear <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
>
>>"p-0'0-h the cat" <super...@furryfreeware.invalid> wrote in
>>news:ojuqa81cpfbnquuek...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Where's the sport with turkeys. Come on over, the Wicca man will keep
>>> you warm.
>>
>>No. The Germans might not be so interested in Russia next time.
>
> Don't worry, you won't live long enough for that to be an issue.
>
Message has been deleted
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 3:58:28 PM11/22/12
to
H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in news:k8lpcp$fe1$1...@dont-email.me:
> Yes, of course, a regular saving of a full backup as an archive is
> good. A known stable install. This, however is not scheduled and is
> something I do manually. It is fairly occasional however as I don't
> need anything too frequent from that regard and am satisfied that,
> should the need arise, I could rebuild to the current state
> satisfactorily, without a complete restaging.
>
That works. I do not have to update my stable images, though I do so
monthly unless there are no major updates, then I skip a month. Looking
back at the last few, I average about once every two months anyway.
Some changes I only make notes of, to be added the next time I restore
the last clean image. These could include program installions or removal
(rare) or major system updates, more frequent. I only have three
installed programs.
I do have images at various states which I sometimes load and use
instead of VMs for various things. However, those images never have to
be updated.
I also have a factory image which I keep updated with system updates,
though I always keep the original and the second to last as a fail safe.
Same with my regular daily use system.
> good. A known stable install. This, however is not scheduled and is
> something I do manually. It is fairly occasional however as I don't
> need anything too frequent from that regard and am satisfied that,
> should the need arise, I could rebuild to the current state
> satisfactorily, without a complete restaging.
>
That works. I do not have to update my stable images, though I do so
monthly unless there are no major updates, then I skip a month. Looking
back at the last few, I average about once every two months anyway.
Some changes I only make notes of, to be added the next time I restore
the last clean image. These could include program installions or removal
(rare) or major system updates, more frequent. I only have three
installed programs.
I do have images at various states which I sometimes load and use
instead of VMs for various things. However, those images never have to
be updated.
I also have a factory image which I keep updated with system updates,
though I always keep the original and the second to last as a fail safe.
Same with my regular daily use system.
Poutnik
Nov 22, 2012, 3:58:45 PM11/22/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 10:22:50 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:MPG.2b17e3c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >
> > Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> > posted 22 Nov 2012 00:11:37 GMT
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> > The other thing that can and should be done
> >> > is to remember, what the best mean then.
> >> >
> >>
> >> The best means that one program is better than another.
> >
> > You confuse verbs to think and to be.
> >
>
> Ah, I now see that you are not to be serious. I can understand a joke-r.
>
> All this time and I merely thought you were confused.
What anybody thinks about something does not become
atribute of that, but atribut of people opinion.
In context of that,
best = best for all according to some group of people
is perfectly OK.
But such best <> best as atribute of the things.
Poutnik
Nov 22, 2012, 4:00:16 PM11/22/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 10:24:47 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:MPG.2b17ec1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > The best means that (some) people think
> > one program is better than all others,
> >
> > not that one program is better than all others.
> >
> > It is big difference.
>
> Not at all. The only way a program can be best is for people to determine
> it is. Without people, it doesn't exist.
People have choen it to be the best.
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 4:08:29 PM11/22/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b18b07...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 10:22:50 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b17e3c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>> > posted 22 Nov 2012 00:11:37 GMT
>> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The other thing that can and should be done
>> >> > is to remember, what the best mean then.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> The best means that one program is better than another.
>> >
>> > You confuse verbs to think and to be.
>> >
>>
>> Ah, I now see that you are not to be serious. I can understand a
>> joke-r.
>>
>> All this time and I merely thought you were confused.
>
> I fact, I am serious. :-D
>
> What anybody thinks about something does not become
> atribute of that, but atribut of people opinion.
>
> In context of that,
> best = best for all according to some group of people
> is perfectly OK.
>
> But such best <> best as atribute of the things.
>
You are very confused Poutnik. Without people, of what we speak does not
exist. Only people can determine the best. All people have are opinions.
You seem to think there is something else.
news:MPG.2b18b07...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 10:22:50 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b17e3c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> >
>> > Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
>> > posted 22 Nov 2012 00:11:37 GMT
>> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The other thing that can and should be done
>> >> > is to remember, what the best mean then.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> The best means that one program is better than another.
>> >
>> > You confuse verbs to think and to be.
>> >
>>
>> Ah, I now see that you are not to be serious. I can understand a
>> joke-r.
>>
>> All this time and I merely thought you were confused.
>
> I fact, I am serious. :-D
>
> What anybody thinks about something does not become
> atribute of that, but atribut of people opinion.
>
> In context of that,
> best = best for all according to some group of people
> is perfectly OK.
>
> But such best <> best as atribute of the things.
>
exist. Only people can determine the best. All people have are opinions.
You seem to think there is something else.
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 4:09:49 PM11/22/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b18b0c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 10:24:47 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b17ec1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > The best means that (some) people think
>> > one program is better than all others,
>> >
>> > not that one program is better than all others.
>> >
>> > It is big difference.
>>
>> Not at all. The only way a program can be best is for people to
>> determine it is. Without people, it doesn't exist.
>
> T determine means it already existed.
> People have choen it to be the best.
>
>
>
I don't even know what that means...except weirder phraseology of what I
just said.
news:MPG.2b18b0c...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 10:24:47 GMT
>
>
>>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b17ec1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>> > The best means that (some) people think
>> > one program is better than all others,
>> >
>> > not that one program is better than all others.
>> >
>> > It is big difference.
>>
>> Not at all. The only way a program can be best is for people to
>> determine it is. Without people, it doesn't exist.
>
> T determine means it already existed.
> People have choen it to be the best.
>
>
>
just said.
Poutnik
Nov 22, 2012, 4:21:09 PM11/22/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 21:08:29 GMT
> >
> > I fact, I am serious. :-D
> >
> > What anybody thinks about something does not become
> > atribute of that, but atribut of people opinion.
> >
> > In context of that,
> > best = best for all according to some group of people
> > is perfectly OK.
> >
> > But such best <> best as atribute of the things.
> >
>
> You are very confused Poutnik. Without people, of what we speak does not
> exist. Only people can determine the best. All people have are opinions.
> You seem to think there is something else.
Many things exist without people.
The Sun is opinion, the computer is opinion
and the OS installed is opinion too.
Really ?
Poutnik
Nov 22, 2012, 4:23:49 PM11/22/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 21:09:49 GMT
> > To determine means it already existed.
> > People have choden it to be the best.
> >
I am sorry, I make typose all the time, fixed..
> I don't even know what that means...except weirder phraseology of what I
> just said.
Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
but of opinion about program.
And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they use.
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 5:12:50 PM11/22/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b18b5a...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 21:08:29 GMT
>
>> >
>> > I fact, I am serious. :-D
>> >
>> > What anybody thinks about something does not become
>> > atribute of that, but atribut of people opinion.
>> >
>> > In context of that,
>> > best = best for all according to some group of people
>> > is perfectly OK.
>> >
>> > But such best <> best as atribute of the things.
>> >
>>
>> You are very confused Poutnik. Without people, of what we speak does
>> not exist. Only people can determine the best. All people have are
>> opinions. You seem to think there is something else.
>
> You are very confused, Bear.
> Many things exist without people.
>
> The Sun is opinion, the computer is opinion
> and the OS installed is opinion too.
>
> Really ?
>
I've come to the conclusion you are being dishonest or have no deductive
skills.
The sun exists without people. Programs don't. There is no best sun in
our galaxy...only one. That which exists without people just do so. That
which exists because of people can be judged better or worse. It is done
all the time in every walk of life. Scientists et al strive to create
better products. When they do it is best until they develop something
better. In the age of technology, best is short lived but exists.
Would you use a program that has been judged worse because it crashes
every 30 seconds (and actually does) ? The opposite can also be true.
Stop being dishonest Poutnik.
news:MPG.2b18b5a...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 21:08:29 GMT
>
>> >
>> > I fact, I am serious. :-D
>> >
>> > What anybody thinks about something does not become
>> > atribute of that, but atribut of people opinion.
>> >
>> > In context of that,
>> > best = best for all according to some group of people
>> > is perfectly OK.
>> >
>> > But such best <> best as atribute of the things.
>> >
>>
>> You are very confused Poutnik. Without people, of what we speak does
>> not exist. Only people can determine the best. All people have are
>> opinions. You seem to think there is something else.
>
> You are very confused, Bear.
> Many things exist without people.
>
> The Sun is opinion, the computer is opinion
> and the OS installed is opinion too.
>
> Really ?
>
skills.
The sun exists without people. Programs don't. There is no best sun in
our galaxy...only one. That which exists without people just do so. That
which exists because of people can be judged better or worse. It is done
all the time in every walk of life. Scientists et al strive to create
better products. When they do it is best until they develop something
better. In the age of technology, best is short lived but exists.
Would you use a program that has been judged worse because it crashes
every 30 seconds (and actually does) ? The opposite can also be true.
Stop being dishonest Poutnik.
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 5:16:00 PM11/22/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b18b64...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 21:09:49 GMT
>
>
>
>> > To determine means it already existed.
>> > People have choden it to be the best.
>> >
>
> I am sorry, I make typose all the time, fixed..
>
>> I don't even know what that means...except weirder phraseology of
>> what I just said.
>
> You say it is opinion bneing best by yourself.
>
> Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
> but of opinion about program.
The opinion is because of the attributes which can be compared...it is
done all the time.
news:MPG.2b18b64...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 21:09:49 GMT
>
>
>
>> > To determine means it already existed.
>> > People have choden it to be the best.
>> >
>
> I am sorry, I make typose all the time, fixed..
>
>> I don't even know what that means...except weirder phraseology of
>> what I just said.
>
> You say it is opinion bneing best by yourself.
>
> Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
> but of opinion about program.
done all the time.
>
> And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they use.
>
No. Round and round we go.
> And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they use.
>
Poutnik
Nov 22, 2012, 5:52:04 PM11/22/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 22:16:00 GMT
> > You say it is opinion bneing best by yourself.
> >
> > Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
> > but of opinion about program.
>
> The opinion is because of the attributes which can be compared...it is
> done all the time.
Sure, but opinion is not part of program properties.
> >
> > Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
> > but of opinion about program.
>
> The opinion is because of the attributes which can be compared...it is
> done all the time.
Or, is it ?
> >
> > And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they use.
>
> No. Round and round we go.
Hm, are you saying by other words that
> > And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they use.
>
> No. Round and round we go.
your opinion is my opinion,
if your opinion is not limited to your criteria ?
( Question mark guarantees I cannot be accused
from putting words into your mouth. :-) )
Bear
Nov 22, 2012, 6:07:21 PM11/22/12
to
Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
news:MPG.2b18cb0...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 22:16:00 GMT
>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b18b64...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> >
>> > You say it is opinion bneing best by yourself.
>> >
>> > Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
>> > but of opinion about program.
>>
>> The opinion is because of the attributes which can be compared...it
>> is done all the time.
>
> Sure, but opinion is not part of program properties.
> Or, is it ?
>> >
>> > And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they
>> > use.
>>
>> No. Round and round we go.
>
> Hm, are you saying by other words that
> your opinion is my opinion,
> if your opinion is not limited to your criteria ?
Of course not. We are done here Poutnik. I can't deal with dishonesty
and pretend it is honest. Do you honestly believe I think my opinion is
your opinion....Don't even try to answer that - no question mark! I mean
fuck.
news:MPG.2b18cb0...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 22:16:00 GMT
>
>> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
>> news:MPG.2b18b64...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> >
>> > You say it is opinion bneing best by yourself.
>> >
>> > Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
>> > but of opinion about program.
>>
>> The opinion is because of the attributes which can be compared...it
>> is done all the time.
>
> Sure, but opinion is not part of program properties.
> Or, is it ?
>> >
>> > And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they
>> > use.
>>
>> No. Round and round we go.
>
> Hm, are you saying by other words that
> your opinion is my opinion,
> if your opinion is not limited to your criteria ?
and pretend it is honest. Do you honestly believe I think my opinion is
your opinion....Don't even try to answer that - no question mark! I mean
fuck.
Poutnik
Nov 23, 2012, 2:00:08 AM11/23/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 23:07:21 GMT
>
> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> news:MPG.2b18cb0...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >
> > Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> > posted 22 Nov 2012 22:16:00 GMT
> >
> >> Poutnik <pou...@privacy.invalid> wrote in
> >> news:MPG.2b18b64...@news.eternal-september.org:
> >
> >> >
> >> > You say it is opinion bneing best by yourself.
> >> >
> >> > Therefore you confess it is not attribute of program,
> >> > but of opinion about program.
> >>
> >> The opinion is because of the attributes which can be compared...it
> >> is done all the time.
> >
> > Sure, but opinion is not part of program properties.
> > Or, is it ?
> >> >
> >> > And this opinion is limited to group of people and criteria they
> >> > use.
> >>
> >> No. Round and round we go.
> >
> > Hm, are you saying by other words that
> > your opinion is my opinion,
> > if your opinion is not limited to your criteria ?
>
> Of course not. We are done here Poutnik. I can't deal with dishonesty
> and pretend it is honest.
it is the same as saying you are liar
without telling what are your lies.
This is dishonst behavior.
> Do you honestly believe I think my opinion is
> your opinion....
I have put absurd quastion to show your absurd opinion.
My long experience says
the less sure the peolple are about quality of their reasons
the more they are pushing it to personal level
Poutnik
Nov 23, 2012, 2:06:39 AM11/23/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 22:12:50 GMT
> >>
> >> You are very confused Poutnik. Without people, of what we speak does
> >> not exist. Only people can determine the best. All people have are
> >> opinions. You seem to think there is something else.
> >
> > You are very confused, Bear.
> > Many things exist without people.
> >
> > The Sun is opinion, the computer is opinion
> > and the OS installed is opinion too.
> >
> > Really ?
> >
>
> I've come to the conclusion you are being dishonest or have no deductive
> skills.
>
> The sun exists without people. Programs don't.
The case is not about things origin, but if ttribute is theirs
> The sun exists without people. Programs don't.
or of opinion about them.
> There is no best sun in
> our galaxy...only one.
> That which exists without people just do so. That
> which exists because of people can be judged better or worse.
not.
> Scientists et al strive to create
> better products. When they do it is best until they develop something
> better. In the age of technology, best is short lived but exists.
But it is opinion, it is not attribut of thing itself,
no matter if people created it ot not.
>
> Would you use a program that has been judged worse because it crashes
> every 30 seconds (and actually does) ? The opposite can also be true.
No, I would not. But it does not change anything on the fact
> Would you use a program that has been judged worse because it crashes
> every 30 seconds (and actually does) ? The opposite can also be true.
worse is opinion, comparing opinion obout 2 things.
Being opinion is nothing about quality,
but about logical status.
>
> Stop being dishonest Poutnik.
Stop accusing people from being dishonest.
You do it every time when your lack of logic is to be revealed.
Poutnik
Nov 23, 2012, 2:09:34 AM11/23/12
to
Poutnik from pou...@privacy.invalid
posted Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:06:39 +0100
>
> > There is no best sun in
> > our galaxy...only one.
>
> Even if there were more, there would be the best.
>
Even if there were more, there would be the best
in opinion, not in own properties.
Poutnik
Nov 23, 2012, 2:18:37 AM11/23/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 22:12:50 GMT
>
> Stop being dishonest Poutnik.
If dishonesty is applying logic
to show where you are wrong,
than I am proud of being dishonest.
But I understand your desire
for me to stop being like that.
Poutnik
Nov 23, 2012, 2:23:57 AM11/23/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 22:12:50 GMT
>
> Stop being dishonest Poutnik.
What is dishonest on these statements ?
>
> Stop being dishonest Poutnik.
This is the best woman ever ( according to Bear ).
This is other best woman ever ( according to sb else ).
Both are right and it is nothing
about quality of their opinions.
For programs it is the same as for women or anything else.
Nobody can consider as dishonest helping you understand.
Poutnik
Nov 23, 2012, 2:31:26 AM11/23/12
to
Poutnik from pou...@privacy.invalid
posted Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:18:37 +0100
>
> Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 22:12:50 GMT
>
> >
> > Stop being dishonest Poutnik.
>
> If dishonesty is applying logic
> to show where you are wrong,
I am afraid it is not your case.
Instead saying I am dishonest
it would be enough to show
where I am wrong.
Poutnik
Nov 24, 2012, 7:03:25 AM11/24/12
to
Bear from bearbo...@gmai.com
posted 22 Nov 2012 23:07:21 GMT
>
> Of course not. We are done here Poutnik. I can't deal with dishonesty
> and pretend it is honest. Do you honestly believe I think my opinion is
> your opinion....Don't even try to answer that - no question mark! I mean
> fuck.
Blame your logic for being dishonest to yourself.
My Antonia by Willa Cather
Nov 24, 2012, 3:17:57 PM11/24/12
to
On Nov 24, 4:03 am, Poutnik <pout...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> Bear from bearbotto...@gmai.com
COMMENT: STATE TERROR BearPair's logic arises from his resident
controllers. It is not one person who is floundering in the morass of
a failed dialectic. However, there is nothing wrong,or inauspicious
or immoral in Poutnik's exposing the failed dialectic. The error
would be this: to attempt to correct STATE TERROR BearPair and believe
the correction can remain solid. It changes with the policy of his
resident controllers.
> Bear from bearbotto...@gmai.com
> posted 22 Nov 2012 23:07:21 GMT
>
>
>
> > Of course not. We are done here Poutnik. I can't deal with dishonesty
> > and pretend it is honest. Do you honestly believe I think my opinion is
> > your opinion....Don't even try to answer that - no question mark! I mean
> > fuck.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> It is consequence of your logic, not mine. Blame your logic for being dishonest to yourself.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Poutnik
>
>
>
> > Of course not. We are done here Poutnik. I can't deal with dishonesty
> > and pretend it is honest. Do you honestly believe I think my opinion is
> > your opinion....Don't even try to answer that - no question mark! I mean
> > fuck.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> It is consequence of your logic, not mine. Blame your logic for being dishonest to yourself.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
COMMENT: STATE TERROR BearPair's logic arises from his resident
controllers. It is not one person who is floundering in the morass of
a failed dialectic. However, there is nothing wrong,or inauspicious
or immoral in Poutnik's exposing the failed dialectic. The error
would be this: to attempt to correct STATE TERROR BearPair and believe
the correction can remain solid. It changes with the policy of his
resident controllers.
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