(OT) (PL) Regarding Pricelessware Site, Genna, Susan, Garrett et. All
Garrett
I just want to make it known that my intent regarding this is not to
make waves or cause any trouble. No one asked me to do this, I offered
to do this because I thought that maybe it might put an end to the
angst and ill feelings.
I did not come back to ACF because of this situation, nor did anyone
from ACF contact me regarding this situation at all. It was chance
that I just decided to drop in to see how things were going.
I can't comment about Susan because I do not know Susan and I will not
allow this situation to be the basis of my opinion of Susan... I will
base my opinion of Susan on any contact that I may have with Susan.
I have no issues with another site being made, and I have no issues
with cooperating with another site if one is made. I have no issues
with sharing the responsibility of the yearly votes, trading off the
yearly votes etc.... Sharing links, sharing info, no problem. In
fact, I'd even be willing to help Susan if she desires to make her own
pricelessware site. As long as it benefits the concept of
Pricelessware and freeware. www.pricelessware.org does not have to be
the center of all things pricelessware or freeware.
I'm not doing this for myself, other than it will give me something to
do these days. I am here to serve merely as a tool to the
Pricelessware site, concept and intent. It is not my site per say, but
like anyone, I may add my own personal touch now and then (update the
site design).
I will not impose my will on anyone here and I will take suggesstions,
comments without prejudice, regardless of who, what, where etc.... My
opinion is no greater or lesser than anyone else here. I am not
interested in cliques or playing politics and will not participate in
such things. I'm not here to brown nose anyone's hind end, nor do I
want anyone trying to ram their nose up my tail pipe. I'm not here to
make friends or otherwise. I'm not here to server any single personal
agenda, but I am here to server the agenda of the whole, and I'm not
talking about my hole. Who I am and what my credentials are mean
nothing in this matter. It should only matter that I'm just willing
and happy to keep to help keep this site going and that I be as fair
and as open as possible... Ok, yes, a degree of knowledge in HTML is
helpful, and I at least have that covered.
I have no intent of making any profit from the site, or personal gain.
I may however, request donations if the need arises in order to keep
the site going. If it comes to that point, it would obviously be for
server costs and or domain payment. I would like to avoid advertising
BS on the site and will avoid it at all possible cost, and that means
avoiding advertising being imposed from free hosting. If all else
fails, and the site is in danger of being shut down due to lack of
funding, I will resort to the use of advertising and or moving to a
free host which may or may not impose advertising on the site, but this
is a last ditch effort. If donations or advertising revenue do come
into play, and there is excess funds left over, the money will either
be set aside for future costs of the site, or donated to some charity.
Last, I am not here to flame, insult, talk down to, intimidate or
anything else negative to anyone. We can all agree, disagree or
whatever, but the point is, that the site is intended to be a beacon
for anyone and everyone who is seeking possibly the best freeware on
the internet. Personal issues and situations should not be a factor,
and I hope to keep such things unrelated to the site and it's content.
I would like to ask everyone to please stop bashing Genna and Susan and
to just let this issue go. How long can a dead horse be beaten to
insure it's dead? Trust me, from what I've seen, the horse is dead and
rotted to the bone already. There's no meat left on it to pick at..
You don't have to like me, you don't have to like Susan and you don't
have to like Genna to be a part of the Pricelessware concept, you only
have to like freeware to be a part of this. Hey, you don't even have
to be a part of this, just use the info provided to your own desire.
:-)
I apologize if my jumping in like this has caused anyone any problems
with regards to this matter. It is not my intent to cause anyone any
problems.
Best regards,
-Garrett R. Hylltun
*ProteanThread*
news:xn0dk958...@news.comcast.giganews.com...
Will there be a way to mirror pricelessware.org on our own sites (like SoS
suggested) by downloading the html code needed ?
POKO
just...@tospam.net says...
> snip
Good start Garrett - welcome back and good luck with your new hobby. I
support everything you said. I wish Susan luck as well and look forward
to seeing that site.
If I can be of help to either of you with regard coding small projects,
just ask. Did I underline 'small'?
Best,
POKO
--
P. Keenan - Webmaster
Web Page Design
Manitoulin Island, Canada
http://manitoulinislandwebdesign.it-mate.co.uk/
pok...@NOSPAMvianet.ca
Susan Bugher
> Greetings to everyone,
>
> I can't comment about Susan because I do not know Susan and I will not
> allow this situation to be the basis of my opinion of Susan... I will
> base my opinion of Susan on any contact that I may have with Susan.
I'm here - feel free to communicate on or offlist (remove whoi to email
me). FYI - any email discussion will be on the record - may be made public.
> I have no issues with another site being made, and I have no issues
> with cooperating with another site if one is made.
The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the Pricelessware
List web site. I'm sure we can work out arrangements for a mirror site
if you would like to have one.
I'm glad you *don't* feel you have issues another site. ISTM that would
be an indication you were out of touch with reality.
I have no issues
> with sharing the responsibility of the yearly votes, trading off the
> yearly votes etc.... Sharing links, sharing info, no problem. In
> fact, I'd even be willing to help Susan if she desires to make her own
> pricelessware site. As long as it benefits the concept of
> Pricelessware and freeware. www.pricelessware.org does not have to be
> the center of all things pricelessware or freeware.
You seem to be asserting you have the *right* to act as spokesperson for
the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup?
Please tell me the *basis* for that assumption? Were you appointed by God?
> I would like to ask everyone to please stop bashing Genna and Susan and
> to just let this issue go. How long can a dead horse be beaten to
> insure it's dead? Trust me, from what I've seen, the horse is dead and
> rotted to the bone already. There's no meat left on it to pick at..
Peace *was* starting to descend. . . Peace *will* descend if you accept
the decision of alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants.
Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
alt.comp.freeware FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
Henk de Jong
> Greetings to everyone,
Welcome back, Garrett, and a lot of success with the continuation of
the Pricelessware site.
Like I already said in an earlier thread I hope that there will be a
situation where 2 sites about Pricelessware peacefully exist besides
each other. I also hope that the whole situation will be cleared within
a short matter of time.
With kind regards,
--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
hmdejong...@hccnet.nl (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/
*ProteanThread*
news:MPG.1b4e90098...@news.individual.de...
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 20:42:13 GMT, *ProteanThread* wrote...
>
> <big snip>
>
> > Will there be a way to mirror pricelessware.org on our own sites (like
SoS
> > suggested) by downloading the html code needed ?
>
> it from your cache, make one or two minor alterations of your own
> choosing and upload to a site of your choice. Probably best not to refer
> to it as 'all your own work' in that case though :-)
>
> --
> EMail address is disposable and NEVER checked.
> Outgoing message is certified VIRUS FREE by
> *me* using nothing more than common sense.
WEBhttrack would be the best to do this, huh ?
But I was suggesting that it maybe easier to download it in all one file
that way the contents and organization are preserved (the only minor change
would be where to point the files - since some may not actually want to host
no other files but the html files (and related images but not actual
download files))
Susan Bugher
> Does the existing site actually host any downloads? I must admit, if I
> were to mirror the site I would only have links to download locations
> rather than providing the downloads themselves.
The pricelessware.org site does not host any freeware programs. That may
change of course. . .
*ProteanThread*
news:10e8vl5...@corp.supernews.com...
<SNIP>
> I'm here - feel free to communicate on or offlist (remove whoi to email
> me). FYI - any email discussion will be on the record - may be made
public.
> The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the Pricelessware
> List web site. I'm sure we can work out arrangements for a mirror site
> if you would like to have one.
Yada, Yada, yea right.
> I'm glad you *don't* feel you have issues another site. ISTM that would
> be an indication you were out of touch with reality.
> I have no issues
With a statement like that, apparently you do.
> You seem to be asserting you have the *right* to act as spokesperson for
> the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup?
>
> Please tell me the *basis* for that assumption? Were you appointed by God?
Ok, this is nonsense. Here, Garrett is holding out an olive branch to Susan
and she trumps him. She trumps him of all things. From what she's recently
posted here and there, it sounds like Susans the one attempting to be
spokesperson and moderator of acf when there is none and can be none.
> Peace *was* starting to descend. . . Peace *will* descend if you accept
> the decision of alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants.
*WTF* ???
>
> Susan
>
Damn, susan. On the rag are we ? It'll take nothing short of you
controlling and owning the "pricelessware.org" domain and moderating acf to
make you happy huh ?
--
Woodzy
http://www.rtdos.com (alternate OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (politically charged discussions)
http://rtdos.com/guestbook (submit your links here)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)
http://rtdos.com/chat
retro themed chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
every Sunday @ 1PM MDT (1900 GMT)
Susan Bugher
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:16:47 -0400, Susan Bugher wrote...
>
>
>>You seem to be asserting you have the *right* to act as spokesperson for
>>the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup?
>>
>>Please tell me the *basis* for that assumption? Were you appointed by God?
>
>
> Is this the same person who earlier in her post said:
>
>
>>The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the Pricelessware
>>List web site. I'm sure we can work out arrangements for a mirror site
>>if you would like to have one.
>
>
> You seem to be asserting you have the *right* to act as spokesperson for
> the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup Susan?
>
> Please tell me the *basis* for that assumption? Were you appointed by
> God?
Originally chosen in default of any other volunteers. ;) My position as
webmaster and point person for alt.comp.freeware was ratified recently
by alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants when they supported my
request to move the Pricelessware List web site.
default
<whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
>Paul Blarmy wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:16:47 -0400, Susan Bugher wrote...
>>
>>
>>>You seem to be asserting you have the *right* to act as spokesperson for
>>>the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup?
>>>
>>>Please tell me the *basis* for that assumption? Were you appointed by God?
>>
>>
>> Is this the same person who earlier in her post said:
>>
>>
>>>The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the Pricelessware
>>>List web site. I'm sure we can work out arrangements for a mirror site
>>>if you would like to have one.
>>
>>
>> You seem to be asserting you have the *right* to act as spokesperson for
>> the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup Susan?
>>
>> Please tell me the *basis* for that assumption? Were you appointed by
>> God?
>
>Originally chosen in default of any other volunteers. ;) My position as
>webmaster and point person for alt.comp.freeware was ratified recently
>by alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants when they supported my
>request to move the Pricelessware List web site.
>
>Susan
Just go for it. If all this stuff about "market economy" really does
work, why sweat the politicians? Is your agenda taking over
"freeware?' That, no one can do . . .
Sorry, I spend most of my time (elsewhere) lurking. Dial up . . . and
don't/can't play with the "big boys"
Domain names? are ephemeral at best.
I know I wasn't appointed by god - she and I aren't on speaking
terms. most days.
Garrett
> Garrett wrote:
>
> > Greetings to everyone,
> >
> > I can't comment about Susan because I do not know Susan and I will
> > not allow this situation to be the basis of my opinion of Susan...
> > I will base my opinion of Susan on any contact that I may have with
> > Susan.
>
> I'm here - feel free to communicate on or offlist (remove whoi to
> email me). FYI - any email discussion will be on the record - may be
> made public.
Understood. But please note, that if someone contacts me privately and
requests that the contents of that private conversation be kept
private, I will respect the request unless otherwise forced by law to
reveal that information.
> > I have no issues with another site being made, and I have no issues
> > with cooperating with another site if one is made.
>
> The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to move the Pricelessware
> List web site. I'm sure we can work out arrangements for a mirror
> site if you would like to have one.
>
> I'm glad you *don't* feel you have issues another site. ISTM that
> would be an indication you were out of touch with reality.
Please note, It has not been proven that I am in touch with reality.
> I have no issues
> > with sharing the responsibility of the yearly votes, trading off the
> > yearly votes etc.... Sharing links, sharing info, no problem. In
> > fact, I'd even be willing to help Susan if she desires to make her
> > own pricelessware site. As long as it benefits the concept of
> > Pricelessware and freeware. www.pricelessware.org does not have to
> > be the center of all things pricelessware or freeware.
>
> You seem to be asserting you have the right to act as spokesperson
> for the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup?
I am merely trying to keep the original site from being just dropped
due to an unfortunate situation. I am also concerned about the recent
vote situation. The grounds for it were less than admirable and I feel
the vote situation was forced upon everyone else due to a disagreement
by two people. Now, was this vote done at the request of the users of
the newsgroup, or at your request? Was everyone in favor of conducting
a vote? And who has the right to conduct such a vote?
> Please tell me the basis for that assumption? Were you appointed by
> God?
Please do not use religious references, or political references... I
try to avoid such things unless it is the topic at hand.
> > I would like to ask everyone to please stop bashing Genna and Susan
> > and to just let this issue go. How long can a dead horse be beaten
> > to insure it's dead? Trust me, from what I've seen, the horse is
> > dead and rotted to the bone already. There's no meat left on it to
> > pick at..
>
> Peace was starting to descend. . . Peace will descend if you accept
> the decision of alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants.
I will accept the decision of the *Participants* of the newsgroup, as
long as the decision process is handled appropriately and without
malice.
At this point, I still feel the vote was tainted too much by a very bad
situation. Now, if a properly handled vote is conducted and the
results show that everyone wants to move the site, then I will do this;
I will continue to run pricelessware.org, but I will not partake in the
handling of the voting process for pricelessware. I will ask for
permission to post the results on pricelessware.org.
Also, due to the length of the threads regarding this situation, was
the vote for moving the site, or for starting a new site? Was the vote
to see who handles the pricelessware voting process? Was it vote on
who has the right to conduct the voting? Just what exactly was this
voting for? Move it, Clone it, Mirror it, Start fresh?
I do mean to sound as if I'm being ass.... As I said, the thread was
long, it was tainted and do not wish to partake in such a thread. So
someone please inform me of what the vote was for.
Personally, I would like to suggest a new vote, and that it be handled
by people who are not so involved in this, such as you, Genna, SOS,
myself etc... But others who are less likely to have any personal
feelings regarding this. And I'd like to ask that if such a thing does
happen, that it be conducted with some civility so that people don't
feel forced into something.
Is this fair to ask of you and everyone else here? If not, then I
digress and bow down to you and the wishes of the *Participants* of the
newsgroup.
Either way, pricelessware.org will continue to operate as a site
listing pricelessware selections. Whether or not it is allowed to be a
part of the voting etc......... I leave that in hands of the true
users and visitors of this newsgroup.
We can all work together, we can all work against each other, but
either way, let's get the ground rules set here so everyone can get on
with their lives.
Best regards,
-Garrett
Susan Bugher
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
>>Garrett wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>I have no issues
>>
>>>with sharing the responsibility of the yearly votes, trading off the
>>>yearly votes etc.... Sharing links, sharing info, no problem. In
>>>fact, I'd even be willing to help Susan if she desires to make her own
>>>pricelessware site. As long as it benefits the concept of
>>>Pricelessware and freeware. www.pricelessware.org does not have to be
>>>the center of all things pricelessware or freeware.
>>
>>You seem to be asserting you have the *right* to act as spokesperson for
>>the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup?
>>
>>Please tell me the *basis* for that assumption? Were you appointed by God?
>
>
> I have read Garrett's paragraph and your response at least 5 times. Your
> being that defensive is disturbing to me. It seemed like he was offering
> his help to a.c.f. which, I hope all of us agree to, is above any one
> individual participating in this group, including you.
> Maybe you PTFB too soon.
Hi Dszady,
Well the way I read it he's claiming pricelessware.org is going to
continue to be the "official" site of the Pricelessware List and he's
now the official spokesperson for alt.comp.freeware.
ACF *voted* to *move* the Pricelessware List web site. If Garrett wants
to *overturn* that vote he should ask for *another* *vote* - *NOT*
simply ignore the wishes of the newsgroup.
Now if Garrett says that pricelessware.org is simply going to be an
unofficial mirror site I'll be a happy camper *and* I'll offer my most
humble apologies for misunderstanding his first post.
Garrett
Regardless if pricelessware.org is allowed to participate in the voting
process, I will make available text files of the listings on the site.
This way, anyone who wants to mirror, can do so with their own design.
The text will be made into a text CSV file, so it should be easy enough
for anyone to parse out and implement into their own design. This also
makes mirroring a little easier on the bandwidth.
Of course, that is, if I am allowed to offer this. It's really up to
everyone here.
Best regards,
-Garrett
*ProteanThread*
>
> At this point, I still feel the vote was tainted too much by a very bad
> situation. Now, if a properly handled vote is conducted and the
> results show that everyone wants to move the site, then I will do this;
> I will continue to run pricelessware.org, but I will not partake in the
> handling of the voting process for pricelessware. I will ask for
> permission to post the results on pricelessware.org.
I agree, it'd almost have to certainly be hasn't really partaked in any of
these threads if at all.
> Also, due to the length of the threads regarding this situation, was
> the vote for moving the site, or for starting a new site? Was the vote
> to see who handles the pricelessware voting process? Was it vote on
> who has the right to conduct the voting? Just what exactly was this
> voting for? Move it, Clone it, Mirror it, Start fresh?
IMHO, i don't feel we ever got a straight answer.
> I do mean to sound as if I'm being ass.... As I said, the thread was
> long, it was tainted and do not wish to partake in such a thread. So
> someone please inform me of what the vote was for.
You're about as clueless as the rest of us.
> Personally, I would like to suggest a new vote, and that it be handled
> by people who are not so involved in this, such as you, Genna, SOS,
> myself etc... But others who are less likely to have any personal
> feelings regarding this. And I'd like to ask that if such a thing does
> happen, that it be conducted with some civility so that people don't
> feel forced into something.
I nominate MightyKitten if this were to take place but now that is moot.
> Is this fair to ask of you and everyone else here? If not, then I
> digress and bow down to you and the wishes of the *Participants* of the
> newsgroup.
No need to. You're fine.
> Either way, pricelessware.org will continue to operate as a site
> listing pricelessware selections. Whether or not it is allowed to be a
> part of the voting etc......... I leave that in hands of the true
> users and visitors of this newsgroup.
I wish Susan did that.
> We can all work together, we can all work against each other, but
> either way, let's get the ground rules set here so everyone can get on
> with their lives.
>
> Best regards,
> -Garrett
Good Luck.
Susan
> due to an unfortunate situation. I am also concerned about the recent
> vote situation. The grounds for it were less than admirable and I feel
> the vote situation was forced upon everyone else due to a disagreement
> by two people. Now, was this vote done at the request of the users of
> the newsgroup, or at your request? Was everyone in favor of conducting
> a vote? And who has the right to conduct such a vote?
other vote somehow
Susan
josiah-...@dsl.pipex.com
Jong <h.m.dejo...@home.nl> :
>Garrett wrote on 1-7-2004 :
>> Greetings to everyone,
>
>Welcome back, Garrett, and a lot of success with the continuation of
>the Pricelessware site.
>
>Like I already said in an earlier thread I hope that there will be a
>situation where 2 sites about Pricelessware
Maybe I'm not grasping this, but . . .
How can there be *TWO* sites called Pricelessware ?
There'll be the pricelessware.org site, owned by Genna and
operated by Garrett
and
A.N.OTHER.site operated by Susan, assisted by Burnr.
Why what appears to be a desperate attempt to hold onto
the Pricelessware name ?
If this ng is *REALLY* to be part of the future equation,
why not something like ACFreeware.xxx ?
>
>I also hope that the whole situation will be cleared within
>a short matter of time.
Seconded !
-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.ian-stewart.dsl.pipex.com/
Susan Bugher
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
>>Garrett wrote:
> Understood. But please note, that if someone contacts me privately and
> requests that the contents of that private conversation be kept
> private, I will respect the request unless otherwise forced by law to
> reveal that information.
Of course.
>>I'm glad you *don't* feel you have issues another site. ISTM that
>>would be an indication you were out of touch with reality.
>
> Please note, It has not been proven that I am in touch with reality.
noted ;)
> Now, was this vote done at the request of the users of
> the newsgroup, or at your request?
It was at my request.
Was everyone in favor of conducting
> a vote?
There was no vote on whether a vote should be held *nor* was there a
vote on whether a vote should be held on whether a vote should be held.
. .
And who has the right to conduct such a vote?
IMO any participant in ACF.
> At this point, I still feel the vote was tainted too much by a very bad
> situation. Now, if a properly handled vote is conducted and the
> results show that everyone wants to move the site, then I will do this;
> I will continue to run pricelessware.org, but I will not partake in the
> handling of the voting process for pricelessware. I will ask for
> permission to post the results on pricelessware.org.
You are entitled to your opinion. You can propose another vote.
> Also, due to the length of the threads regarding this situation, was
> the vote for moving the site, or for starting a new site? Was the vote
> to see who handles the pricelessware voting process? Was it vote on
> who has the right to conduct the voting? Just what exactly was this
> voting for? Move it, Clone it, Mirror it, Start fresh?
The first post in the "Irreconcilable Differences" thread has that
information.
> We can all work together, we can all work against each other, but
> either way, let's get the ground rules set here so everyone can get on
> with their lives.
Good idea. :)
Semolina Pilchard
>Jolly good, you say... PL is back online; hey Susan STFU and get back
>on board, host your little ego site and do all the work as always and
>Genna and Garrett will throw you a few crumbs of recognition from the
>'official' (wtf does that mean?) PL site.
I felt I should snip because it was long. I hardly knew where to
snip, because I agree with every word you say. This is a fine
analysis.
>
>Maybe Genna and Garrett will start contributing to the group in a real
>sense; I don't know. I do know that spending a few dollars a year in
>order to hold control of a domain is not much of a contribution. Nor
>is doing a bit of HTML work at Genna/SoS's request because one is
>bored.
>
>If I was Susan in this week's climate, I would resign again; your
>'mediation' appears to be working towards this.
I hope and believe she will not, though I understand your thinking. I
believe she has the backing of the majority.
--
Semolina Pilchard
Susan
John Fitzsimons
< snip >
>The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the Pricelessware
>List web site.
< snip >
No, they voted that YOU move your files to another site if you were
unwilling to cooperate with Genna.
So do it. Do what the group asked you to do.
John Fitzsimons
wrote:
>Greetings to everyone,
>I just want to make it known that my intent regarding this is not to
>make waves or cause any trouble. No one asked me to do this, I offered
>to do this because
Thanks Garrett. Nice to see you back. Your previous help in the
newsgroup, and your previous freeware sites, both point to a very
positive future for ACF participants. :-)
>I thought that maybe it might put an end to the angst and ill feelings.
< snip >
I wouldn't count on that. I expect Susan is pretty furious that her
attempt at manipulating ACF readers didn't result in her getting total
control over everything.
R. L.
news:xn0dk98if...@news.comcast.giganews.com:
> Regardless if pricelessware.org is allowed to participate
> in the voting process, I will make available text files of
> the listings on the site. This way, anyone who wants to
> mirror, can do so with their own design. The text will be
> made into a text CSV file, so it should be easy enough for
> anyone to parse out and implement into their own design.
> This also makes mirroring a little easier on the bandwidth.
This is a great idea!! I was going to ask about that :-)
thanks!
--
RL
*******************************************
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Uptime Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
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*******************************************
R. L.
news:10e8vl5...@corp.supernews.com:
> The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the
> Pricelessware List web site. I'm sure we can work out
> arrangements for a mirror site if you would like to have
> one.
When the vote were conducted, it was never really clear that
what the "move" is in a more concrete term. Moving the files
do not mean to move the site per se.
It sounds like to me you were thinking that there was only ONE
official site of Pricelessware and now you insist that the
*NEW* site needed to be thought of or called "official". But
this was all along a misconception, not just by you, I was
thinking that way, too. But I realized that it is unsounded.
The reason is that even before you come Genna was just
offering her space for the posters here. Pricelessware.org
.net or .whatever, was only "thought of" as an official site
and we conventionally agree upon it because there was no
alternative (no one offer more space or another place to post
the pricelessware result).
But now, this obviously has changed. You also made an offer
to setting up one and so as Genna and other people. I don't
see why one want to call one "official" but the other "not
offical". I know you don't mean to sound this way but it does
sound like a dictator's talk here.
I think everyone who wants to contribute, including you, SOS,
Genna, Garrett, or anyone volunteer to help either site,
should be equally official - as long as they are working to
promote freeware.
R. L.
news:108872173...@doris.uk.clara.net:
> Two sites about freeware, for sure; no problem. But is
> 'Pricelessware' not an a.c.f concept?
Yes, but "Pricelessware" refers to a set of information
stating a list of ware that came out fromt he anually polls
here. As you already have quoted:
> 'The best of the best in Windows ¸ Freeware,
> as determined by the readers of alt.comp.freeware'
So, it does not refer to the site. It is copyrighted because
no one who have a piece of software should claim that it won
the pricelessware award if it didn't.
> A newsgroup tends to have a shifting power dynamic which a
> 'mediator' ought to be recognising. I've been here on and
> off under different nyms for more than 3 year now and have
> never heard of Genna until this mess started. Susan has
> always been a prominent presence in the group. SoS has
> always been a prominent presence in the group. Who on earth
> is Garrett?
Does this even matter? Just as I don't know you and you don't
know me, either. When Susan first came on board, nobody knew
her either, and she has contributed many now. Everyone has a
start.
R. L.
> Well the way I read it he's claiming pricelessware.org is
> going to continue to be the "official" site of the
> Pricelessware List and he's now the official spokesperson
> for alt.comp.freeware.
Susan, why do you sound so hostile, honestly it does not sound
like you at all. I don't think Garret is claiming this and
even if he did, why would you even care? No body, including
you and I can make such claim.
> ACF *voted* to *move* the Pricelessware List web site. If
> Garrett wants to *overturn* that vote he should ask for
> *another* *vote* - *NOT* simply ignore the wishes of the
> newsgroup.
Why are you posting accusatively? I respect you a lot and I
know that you must be feeling fustrated about the whole
situation (and I understand). But I don't think Garrett wants
to "overturn" anything. You negative tone would only make
matter worst (I assume that you still have your heart in the
right place).
> Now if Garrett says that pricelessware.org is simply going
> to be an unofficial mirror site I'll be a happy camper
> *and* I'll offer my most humble apologies for
> misunderstanding his first post.
We never really voted on having an *official* site. The one
we had can be "thought of" sort of as an "official" (a nice
idea). In addition, when we vote for moving, we thought there
would only be one person offering the space, but now there are
more than one. Since more than one persons are willing to
contribute, no one should be excluded and there shouldn't be
one site more "official-er" than the other.
I thought orginally you found that it was fustrated about
working under the domain restrictions and want to be able to
do what you like so you proposed to have the site move so you
will be working happily. This is understandable. And I
thought this has been done. Now, I found that you kind of
lost me there.
Since all the disscussions you brought up, it happens that
both you and someone else are willing to contribute. Why
can't you guys work together? Why make bad comments like that
with negative tone to spoil the group? I am sure you don't
mean it but you comments are hurtful (and will be serving
trolls who want to stir things up). Please claim down (and
perhaps be back to the good old Susan again?)
Susan Bugher
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> says in
> news:10e93qd...@corp.supernews.com:
>
> We never really voted on having an *official* site. The one
> we had can be "thought of" sort of as an "official" (a nice
> idea).
Hi RL,
We did vote on *moving* the Pricelessware List.
<q>
I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in the past (IIRC
the last move was about two years ago).
</q>
>In addition, when we vote for moving, we thought there
> would only be one person offering the space, but now there are
> more than one. Since more than one persons are willing to
> contribute, no one should be excluded and there shouldn't be
> one site more "official-er" than the other.
The vote ended June 28. 37 votes in favor of a move, 14 opposed.
Garrett's first post to ACF this year was on June 23. Garrett could have
offered his services as webmaster of the pricelessware.org site then or
any time in the next several days while voting on the proposed move was
still open.
The vote to move to a new site could have and would have been held open
for as long as it took to reach a group decision. Anyone who had cast a
vote in favor of the move would have been free to change their ballot.
That didn't happen. Voting closed on Monday, June 28th. Today is
Thursday.
Today - without warning, without any discussion in the newsgroup an
announcement is made that the pricelessware.org site "endures".
Doesn't look much like democracy in action to me. . .
Mark Warner
> "Garrett" wrote:
>>
>> I thought that maybe it might put an end to the angst and ill
>> feelings.
>
> attempt at manipulating ACF readers didn't result in her getting total
> control over everything.
You "expect"???? It appears pretty obvious to me...
--
Mark Warner
lose .inhibitions when replying
*ProteanThread*
news:qg89e0pql8upnd4uf...@4ax.com...
more like back fired on her and still back firing (sounds like an old vw bug
to me)
--
Woodzy
http://www.rtdos.com (alt OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (charged political discussion)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)
http://rtdos.com/chat
Chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
R. L.
> R. L. wrote:
>
>> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> says in
>> news:10e93qd...@corp.supernews.com:
>> We never really voted on having an *official* site. The
>> one we had can be "thought of" sort of as an "official" (a
>> nice idea).
> Hi RL,
>
> We did vote on *moving* the Pricelessware List.
> <q>
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new
> location.
>
> The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in
> the past (IIRC the last move was about two years ago).
> </q>
I understand this, Susan, and I also understand your concern.
But my point is, yes one can *move* the existing files that
have the Pricelessware List on them (and it was very nice of
you to ask because those files are indeed, primarily your
creations, with your designs, your thoughts, your efforts, and
your personal touches). Yet, who has the right to say that it
is "official" and represent all of us? In addition, one
cannot *move* the list per se because the list come out from
this group and here is its true home. The website is just its
channel. The more websites the better if one truely love
freeware.
If one want the/a site to represent him/her as a member here,
one is free to do so and think of it so. And you also can
have a *poll* (not really "vote", though) to see how many
people would perfer to think of it as an official site, but it
doesn't mean that people won't or can't change their mind, and
it also doesn't mean that those who do not agree with the poll
result need to be restricted by it at all.
In fact, more precisely speaking, a lot of so call "votes" in
the groups are "polls". Someone has an idea (or have
something to contribute), that person has perfect right and
power to do something even without asking, but are nice enough
to be devoted to this group and conduct a "poll" and ask for
opinions. And this is an extremely nice spirit. However,
this is *far* from a binding voting process. Firstly, we are
not a real collective as a "voting process" would truely
imply. Second, everyone who come in with different identities
could vote. Granted, the whole thing is all in good faith.
But at the very least, that particular voting about *moving*
did not have a "call and discussion for the validity of the
motion" did not have "a discussion period", did not have a
pre-announced open and close date, people who were asked to
voted were not *really* given enough details as to what was
going on, either. Many questions were still hanging there
even after the vote was so called "closed". How could this be
far to *every* member even if one think it could be called a
vote?
Of course, as I said it is all in good faith, but it is indeed
truely an "opinion poll". And the opinion at that time was
that there were no objection to have the current list be
hosted in a place so that you would find it to be easy to work
with. In addition, some voters might perhaps think that they
are having little choices (no one seem to want to do it) and
you have been so lovely in doing it and why not make things
easier for you. And indeed this can easily be achieved even
you have not conducted that poll (if you want opinions, can
just by by asking and proper discussions).
Whatever the result of that poll was, we might agree/disagree
to have that particlar list (I mean the files) to be put in a
different site, but no one did disagree for it to continue to
exist on Genna's site either (and in fact, it sounds like many
would love that, too). And no one can say that which one is
an "official site", either. The bottomline is, given the
current situation, do we even *need* an official site? I
think it will only make matter worst.
> >In addition, when we vote for moving, we thought there
> > would only be one person offering the space, but now
> > there are more than one. Since more than one persons are
> > willing to contribute, no one should be excluded and
> > there shouldn't be one site more "official-er" than the
> > other.
> The vote ended June 28. 37 votes in favor of a move, 14
> opposed.
>
> Garrett's first post to ACF this year was on June 23.
> Garrett could have offered his services as webmaster of the
> pricelessware.org site then or any time in the next several
> days while voting on the proposed move was still open.
What's wrong with him offering now? It should have no
conflicts or whatever with what you are doing. In fact,
anyone are encourged to offering help to this group ANYTIME.
This is the spirit of freeware, being open, non-exclusive,
don't you think so? You offered to help two years ago and you
did a great job for two years. Not to mention he is just
offer *additional* help.
> Today - without warning, without any discussion in the
> newsgroup an announcement is made that the
> pricelessware.org site "endures".
Susan, having being here long enough, you know that some
members in this group sometimes post with negative tones just
out of fustration, using not the best choice of words (and I
am sure everyone does that from time to time). So please
don't be too upset with that. Sometimes, they are who they
are and that is in a way what bring favor to this group; and
you grow to love that after you have been here for long
enough, right?
> Doesn't look much like democracy in action to me. . .
Yes, democracy is important, but sometimes it is not
everything :-) Susan, I am really eagar to see both you and
Garrett's new sites; and also to see the good old nice Susan
come back. Don't let all this get into you, please ?
Ben Cooper
> Henk de Jong wrote:
>
>>Like I already said in an earlier thread I hope that there will be a
>>each other. I also hope that the whole situation will be cleared
>>within a short matter of time.
>
> 'Pricelessware' not an a.c.f concept?
> ought to be recognising. I've been here on and off under different
> nyms for more than 3 year now and have never heard of Genna until this
> mess started. Susan has always been a prominent presence in the group.
> SoS has always been a prominent presence in the group. Who on earth is
> Garrett?
>
> as determined by the readers of alt.comp.freeware'
>
> not?
> Which now looks to be in danger of going out of the window as the old
> guard clique make a few decisions behind closed doors and patronise
> the person who has been doing the work the last few years.
> And your 'mediation' (LOL) enables this.
> Jolly good, you say... PL is back online; hey Susan STFU and get back
> on board, host your little ego site and do all the work as always and
> Genna and Garrett will throw you a few crumbs of recognition from the
> 'official' (wtf does that mean?) PL site.
>
> sense; I don't know. I do know that spending a few dollars a year in
> order to hold control of a domain is not much of a contribution. Nor
> is doing a bit of HTML work at Genna/SoS's request because one is
> bored.
>
> If I was Susan in this week's climate, I would resign again; your
> 'mediation' appears to be working towards this.
>
Interesting observations.
--
Ben Cooper
histo...@qwest.net
Ben Cooper
> Greetings to everyone,
>
> I just want to make it known that my intent regarding this is not to
> make waves or cause any trouble. No one asked me to do this, I
> to the angst and ill feelings.
Maybe, but we all know the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I don't recall seeing your offer presented to this group before SOS'
announcement.
> I did not come back to ACF because of this situation, nor did anyone
> from ACF contact me regarding this situation at all. It was chance
> that I just decided to drop in to see how things were going.
You may be telling the truth, but I find it hard to believe. It seems a
bit serendipitous to me.
> I can't comment about Susan because I do not know Susan and I will not
> allow this situation to be the basis of my opinion of Susan... I will
> base my opinion of Susan on any contact that I may have with Susan.
You could base your opinion of Susan on all the work she's done to make
Pricelessware what it is today.
Although, I would like to see what you bring to the table. When do you
expect to have your version of the site available?
Maybe, your efforts would better spent helping to organize the new and
approved Pricelessware site.
[snip]
> I'm not doing this for myself, other than it will give me something to
> do these days. I am here to serve merely as a tool to the
> Pricelessware site, concept and intent. It is not my site per say,
> but like anyone, I may add my own personal touch now and then (update
> the site design).
That's how Susan started. Be careful that as you stare into the abyss
the abyss stares back at you.
Once you have remade the pricelessware.org site in your own image, are
you sure "Genna" will not, someday, decide it can be "improved" whether
you like it or not?
> I will not impose my will on anyone here and I will take suggesstions,
> comments without prejudice, regardless of who, what, where etc.... My
> opinion is no greater or lesser than anyone else here. I am not
> interested in cliques or playing politics and will not participate in
> such things. I'm not here to brown nose anyone's hind end, nor do I
> want anyone trying to ram their nose up my tail pipe. I'm not here to
> make friends or otherwise. I'm not here to server any single personal
> agenda, but I am here to server the agenda of the whole, and I'm not
> talking about my hole. Who I am and what my credentials are mean
> nothing in this matter. It should only matter that I'm just willing
> and happy to keep to help keep this site going and that I be as fair
> and as open as possible... Ok, yes, a degree of knowledge in HTML is
> helpful, and I at least have that covered.
It's good to see that you have stated your intentions. Your intentions
seem to be in agreement with the majority of the people who participated
in the decision to move the site away from "Genna's" control.
Who you are and what your credentials are *do* mean something. Now that
we know "Genna" is a fake person, how are we to know you aren't? How
convenient of you to arrive at such an opportune time.
> I have no intent of making any profit from the site, or personal gain.
> I may however, request donations if the need arises in order to keep
> the site going. If it comes to that point, it would obviously be for
> server costs and or domain payment. I would like to avoid advertising
> BS on the site and will avoid it at all possible cost, and that means
> avoiding advertising being imposed from free hosting. If all else
> fails, and the site is in danger of being shut down due to lack of
> funding, I will resort to the use of advertising and or moving to a
> free host which may or may not impose advertising on the site, but
> this is a last ditch effort. If donations or advertising revenue do
> come into play, and there is excess funds left over, the money will
> either be set aside for future costs of the site, or donated to some
> charity.
And this group will have some say about that, right?
No, I guess we won't since *you* now seem to be able to make those
decisions regardless of any opposition.
> Last, I am not here to flame, insult, talk down to, intimidate or
> anything else negative to anyone. We can all agree, disagree or
> whatever, but the point is, that the site is intended to be a beacon
> for anyone and everyone who is seeking possibly the best freeware on
> the internet. Personal issues and situations should not be a factor,
> and I hope to keep such things unrelated to the site and it's content.
>
> I would like to ask everyone to please stop bashing Genna and Susan
> and to just let this issue go. How long can a dead horse be beaten to
> insure it's dead? Trust me, from what I've seen, the horse is dead
> and rotted to the bone already. There's no meat left on it to pick
> at..
Trust me, this issue isn't dead yet.
> You don't have to like me, you don't have to like Susan and you don't
> have to like Genna to be a part of the Pricelessware concept, you only
> have to like freeware to be a part of this. Hey, you don't even have
> to be a part of this, just use the info provided to your own desire.
> :-)
>
> I apologize if my jumping in like this has caused anyone any problems
> with regards to this matter. It is not my intent to cause anyone any
> problems.
You can confess your sins if you like, but you are not absolved. :)
BTW, would you please remove me from-
http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
I don't want to be affiliated with the owner's of this site. I would
have asked you privately, but I didn't see any way to contact you.
--
Ben Cooper
histo...@qwest.net
REM
> John Fitzsimons <DELETEu...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> Susan Bugher
>>The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the Pricelessware
>>List web site.
>No, they voted that YOU move your files to another site if you were
>unwilling to cooperate with Genna.
<10ddph5...@corp.supernews.com>
Above is the original message calling for a vote.
Fourth paragraph:
"I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location."
Ending paragraph:
"Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please."
>So do it. Do what the group asked you to do.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Garrett
> BTW, would you please remove me from-
> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
Your request is noted and will be verified before the site is next
updated.
Best regards,
-Garrett
R. L.
news:um5Fc.132$4Z3.49@lakeread02:
> Garrett <just...@tospam.net> wrote:
>> Greetings to everyone,
>> I just want to make it known that my intent regarding this
>> is not to make waves or cause any trouble. No one asked
>> me to do this, I offered to do this because I thought that
>> maybe it might put an end to the angst and ill feelings.
> Maybe, but we all know the road to hell is paved with good
> intentions. I don't recall seeing your offer presented to
> this group before SOS' announcement.
Why does this even matter? Why don't we give people benefit
of the doubts? Anyone offer to help and to be devoted to
freeware should be welcomed. Susan offered her help two years
ago and if everyone was doubting her we would not have come so
far.
>> I did not come back to ACF because of this situation, nor
>> did anyone from ACF contact me regarding this situation at
>> all. It was chance that I just decided to drop in to see
>> how things were going.
> You may be telling the truth, but I find it hard to
> believe. It seems a bit serendipitous to me.
I see that you heart must be in the right place since you
offer to help on the Pricelessware CD. However, no offense,
this type of comments IMO would not help the group at this
point, don't you think so? In this group, everything are sort
of done in good faith. If we lost this, where would we be?
>> I can't comment about Susan because I do not know Susan
>> and I will not allow this situation to be the basis of my
>> opinion of Susan... I will base my opinion of Susan on any
>> contact that I may have with Susan.
> You could base your opinion of Susan on all the work she's
> done to make Pricelessware what it is today.
> Although, I would like to see what you bring to the table.
> When do you expect to have your version of the site
> available? Maybe, your efforts would better spent helping
> to organize the new and approved Pricelessware site.
It is a matter of opinion, though. I think the more the
merrier, too.
> That's how Susan started. Be careful that as you stare into
> the abyss the abyss stares back at you.
> Once you have remade the pricelessware.org site in your own
> image, are you sure "Genna" will not, someday, decide it
> can be "improved" whether you like it or not?
This negative comment, again, does not help. There seems to
have been misundertanding and miscommunciation going on
between Susan and Genna. No one know the whole story and we
don't need to. But why all that hostility comes against
Genna? Whether she is good or bad, bad mouthing her here is
not a decent thing to do (just like no one should bad mouth
Susan either).
> Who you are and what your credentials are *do* mean
> something. Now that we know "Genna" is a fake person, how
> are we to know you aren't? How convenient of you to arrive
> at such an opportune time.
Perhaps you should read some posts in alt.comp.discussions,
too. It seems to me that this did not come out of nowhere.
However, again this is irrelevant.
> And this group will have some say about that, right?
> No, I guess we won't since *you* now seem to be able to
> make those decisions regardless of any opposition.
We have no right to oppose. The site belong to Genna and the
content of the Princelessware list is open domain, anyone can
check it out from usnet. No one can oppose to anyone who want
to report the annual poll/vote Pricelessware results posted in
the usenet. People can be suspusious about the intention of
Genna, Susan, Garrett, SOS, or anyone who volunteer, keeping
the resource and information *OPEN* is the ONLY way to fight
against potiential flaws or bad intentions (don't you see
that?). No one have exclusive claim on anything, everyone has
access to the valuable infomation of the results of the annual
polls. No spyware or commercial ware can claim that they are
pricelessware, too. You see why making it open is so
important?
> Trust me, this issue isn't dead yet.
That doesn't sound constructive, either.
> BTW, would you please remove me from-
> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
>
> I don't want to be affiliated with the owner's of this
> site. I would have asked you privately, but I didn't see
> any way to contact you.
It is sad. But hope that you would continue to help in some
ways (I mean it :) )
Ben Cooper
> Ben Cooper wrote:
>
>
>> BTW, would you please remove me from-
>> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
>
> Your request is noted and will be verified before the site is next
> updated.
OK, I'll rephrase it.
Remove my contact information from-
http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
I demand that you remove it *now*. This is *not* a request.
--
Ben Cooper
histo...@qwest.net
Garrett
> Garrett <just...@tospam.net> wrote:
> > Ben Cooper wrote:
> >
> >
> >> BTW, would you please remove me from-
> >> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
> >
> > Your request is noted and will be verified before the site is next
> > updated.
>
> OK, I'll rephrase it.
> Remove my contact information from-
> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
>
> I demand that you remove it now. This is not a request.
Excuse me for not bowing to your demand, but I have no clue who you
are, or if you are the person listed on that page. I refuse to remove
any content until I can verify that the person in question is the
author making the request.
I do apologize if this does not meet your immediate requirements, but I
do hope you can understand my position regarding this.
I will verify this with the person in question when I have the
opportunity to do so.
Best regards,
-Garrett
Eric
news:10e9hfu...@corp.supernews.com:
Of course I just lurk and not contribute much, so my opinion means
nothing and no one cares what I say (don't bother flaming, I know I'm
not entitled) but I think John F. is right!!! I think you obviously are
a control freak. Please mellow out and let's concentrate on freeware.
Thanks,
Eric
Gump Worsley's Mask
news:Xns951A4E13EDBC9er...@216.168.3.44:
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
> news:10e9hfu...@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> R. L. wrote:
>>
>>> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> says in
>>> news:10e93qd...@corp.supernews.com:
>>>
>>> We never really voted on having an *official* site. The one
>>> we had can be "thought of" sort of as an "official" (a nice
>>> idea).
>>
>> Hi RL,
>>
>> We did vote on *moving* the Pricelessware List.
>>
>> <q>
>> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
>>
>>
>> The vote ended June 28. 37 votes in favor of a move, 14 opposed.
>>
Missed that Vote thread....
>> That didn't happen. Voting closed on Monday, June 28th. Today is
>> Thursday.
>>
>> Today - without warning, without any discussion in the newsgroup an
>> announcement is made that the pricelessware.org site "endures".
>>
>> Doesn't look much like democracy in action to me. . .
>>
>> Susan
>
> Of course I just lurk and not contribute much, so my opinion means
> nothing and no one cares what I say (don't bother flaming, I know I'm
> not entitled) but I think John F. is right!!! I think you obviously
> are a control freak. Please mellow out and let's concentrate on
> freeware.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Eric
I totally agree with you
cidr
Ben Cooper
> Ben Cooper wrote:
>
>> Garrett <just...@tospam.net> wrote:
>>> Ben Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> BTW, would you please remove me from-
>>>> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
>>>
>>> Your request is noted and will be verified before the site is next
>>> updated.
>>
>> OK, I'll rephrase it.
>> Remove my contact information from-
>> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
>>
>> I demand that you remove it now. This is not a request.
>
> Excuse me for not bowing to your demand, but I have no clue who you
> are, or if you are the person listed on that page. I refuse to remove
> any content until I can verify that the person in question is the
> author making the request.
I'm not frothing at the mouth, screaming a demand. I just wanted it to
be clear that I wasn't *asking* you to remove my name and contact
information. I was *telling* you to remove it. The longer it remains
there the less I like it.
> I do apologize if this does not meet your immediate requirements, but
> I do hope you can understand my position regarding this.
No, I can't say that I do understand your position. An email to me
immediately after you replied to me the first time would have settled
it. Yet, I've still had no contact from you.
Since I can't contact you privately, I must settle for this public
venue.
--
Ben Cooper
histo...@qwest.net
Ben Cooper
I'm not ignoring everything else you wrote, I just don't want to belabor
the matter. I've already come to my conclusions and, of course, I
believe them to be correct. :)
>> BTW, would you please remove me from-
>> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
>>
>> I don't want to be affiliated with the owner's of this
>> site. I would have asked you privately, but I didn't see
>> any way to contact you.
>
> It is sad. But hope that you would continue to help in some
> ways (I mean it :) )
I just don't want to be affiliated in any way with the owners of
pricelessware.org. It's a matter of trust and I don't trust them any
more.
I'll still answer requests for CDs that are posted here. When and if the
new site is created I'll let my name be listed there, too.
--
Ben Cooper
histo...@qwest.net
H-Man
"R. L." <ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST> wrote in message
news:Xns9519CF879...@127.0.0.1...
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> says in
> news:10e8vl5...@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the
> > Pricelessware List web site. I'm sure we can work out
> > arrangements for a mirror site if you would like to have
> > one.
>
> When the vote were conducted, it was never really clear that
> what the "move" is in a more concrete term. Moving the files
> do not mean to move the site per se.
I'd say thay you simply take it for what it means, when you move a file
from one folder on your PC to another, the copy is in the new folder and
the original is erased, hence move. If you didn't want it moved, you
would have it copied. The concept seems simple enough. It's really easy
to over analyze condidering the situation, but my position on the whole
thing is to take things at face value at this point and not get too
analytical.
>
> It sounds like to me you were thinking that there was only ONE
> official site of Pricelessware and now you insist that the
> *NEW* site needed to be thought of or called "official". But
> this was all along a misconception, not just by you, I was
> thinking that way, too. But I realized that it is unsounded.
"official" might not be the perfect word to describe it, but it is for
lack of another the best. There needs to be a single site that hosts the
list, the "official" version of which is generated by this very group.
Other sites can mirror the list and use it as they see fit, but one site
needs to host the actual list as voted on by this group, unaltered. This
is absolutely required so the we the group always know the current
status of the PWL.
>
> The reason is that even before you come Genna was just
> offering her space for the posters here. Pricelessware.org
> .net or .whatever, was only "thought of" as an official site
> and we conventionally agree upon it because there was no
> alternative (no one offer more space or another place to post
> the pricelessware result).
This is largely correct as I understand it, but, because we are seeing a
condition that would fragment the PWL, I think it would be best to name
an "official" site.
>
> But now, this obviously has changed. You also made an offer
> to setting up one and so as Genna and other people. I don't
> see why one want to call one "official" but the other "not
> offical". I know you don't mean to sound this way but it does
> sound like a dictator's talk here.
I can see your point, but believe, it is necessary. I believe this is
also what is motivating Susan on this stance, not dictatorship or
anything like that. As the group voted on a "move" then this would, and
should, also carry the "official" status, implied or otherwise" with it,
otherwise what would be the point?
>
> I think everyone who wants to contribute, including you, SOS,
> Genna, Garrett, or anyone volunteer to help either site,
> should be equally official - as long as they are working to
> promote freeware.
Of course, so long as the single site deemed "offical" represents the
interest of the group. Again, this is why one site needs to be
"official" and any others can do as they see fit. The best interest and
wishes of the group as a whole needs to be represented in one place.
HK
R. L.
news:jjeFc.11$m86....@news.uswest.net:
> R. L. wrote:
>> "Ben Cooper" <histo...@qwest.net> says in
>> news:um5Fc.132$4Z3.49@lakeread02:
> [snip]
> I'll still answer requests for CDs that are posted here.
All and all, that would be nice :) , thanks.
R. L.
news:2klfogF...@uni-berlin.de:
>> It sounds like to me you were thinking that there was only
>> ONE official site of Pricelessware and now you insist that
>> the *NEW* site needed to be thought of or called
>> "official". But this was all along a misconception, not
>> just by you, I was thinking that way, too. But I realized
>> that it is unsounded.
> "official" might not be the perfect word to describe it,
> but it is for lack of another the best. There needs to be a
> single site that hosts the list, the "official" version of
> which is generated by this very group.
Yes, but it doesn't have to be a "website", we in fact already
have a "site", here. Don't you see that? Here is the most
first-hand information one can get.
>Other sites can
> mirror the list and use it as they see fit, but one site
> needs to host the actual list as voted on by this group,
> unaltered. This is absolutely required so the we the group
> always know the current status of the PWL.
We can have it here. Who said a sit can be "forever" and
"unaltered"? It might be orginally a good intention. Here,
the newsgroup itself, is our home. No site can replace it at
all. But any websites can list our activities here and report
it. They are channels, second handed.
>> The reason is that even before you come Genna was just
>> offering her space for the posters here.
>> Pricelessware.org .net or .whatever, was only "thought of"
>> as an official site and we conventionally agree upon it
>> because there was no alternative (no one offer more space
>> or another place to post the pricelessware result).
> This is largely correct as I understand it, but, because we
> are seeing a condition that
The problem about official is that firstly, it sound
"exclusive" to me and this forum this newsgroup is open,its
information is open to everyone. Second, as I have already
said, we always fall into the "trap" of "voting" here, if I or
some other people who frequent here "vote" to have a site to
represent us, it doesn't really mean that it can legitimately
represents ALL participants here. It is only a poll among
some participants here (the result reflect opinions, not
power). It is not fair to other participants who are also
freeware lovers to follow our wish if they don't want to. We
who are willing to come out and post a few things don't get to
decide got represented by whom and who not. In our life we
have spokeman/representative/organization for everything. We
we don't need that here, though. We don't need an official
site to represent us here. We speak for ourself. The
important thing is to keep a full list of accurate PL results
in here, so people can find it and search for it and report
it, everyone should have the EQUAL right to do it, no one or
small group of person is more official than the other.
Everyone should be welcomed to participant without saying who
is more "proper" than the other.
>would fragment the PWL, I think
> it would be best to name an "official" site.
Fragment is not a bad thing.
You have been around enough to see that this group always have
different opinions, fragment can be a good thing (although we
like to think we are, I do, at least, we are, nevertheness
never a true collective here, not members but only
participants, everyone is welcomed). It makes us have more
differnt way of thinkings and more opinions. Having an
official site, no matter who runs it, is exclusive and hard to
avoid potiential unfair play from the future. Keeping it open
is important.
Omar©
I like my name also to be removed.
Thank you
Omar
--
"When I am right, No one remembers
When I am wrong, No one forgets"
Mark Warner
>> Ben Cooper wrote:
>>
>>> BTW, would you please remove me from-
>>> http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
>
Garrett -- If/when you get around to making these changes, feel free to
ADD me to the list of burners to contact (I thought I had asked Susan to
do this long ago, but no matter).
I have sent out about a dozen disks (a result of replying to requests
posted in the newsgroup) since the project went "live," and don't mind
continuing to do my share.
Location is Indiana. Email is: mhwarner AT insightbb DOT com.
H-Man
"R. L." <ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST> wrote in message
> "H-Man" <landelth...@cybersurf.net> says in
> news:2klfogF...@uni-berlin.de:
>
> >> It sounds like to me you were thinking that there was only
> >> ONE official site of Pricelessware and now you insist that
> >> the *NEW* site needed to be thought of or called
> >> "official". But this was all along a misconception, not
> >> just by you, I was thinking that way, too. But I realized
> >> that it is unsounded.
>
> > "official" might not be the perfect word to describe it,
> > but it is for lack of another the best. There needs to be a
> > single site that hosts the list, the "official" version of
> > which is generated by this very group.
>
> Yes, but it doesn't have to be a "website", we in fact already
> have a "site", here. Don't you see that? Here is the most
> first-hand information one can get.
You're absolutely correct, it doesn't have to be a website. And yes I
can see that we have a forum (site) here. Tell me though, were on this
site (acf) do I find the 2004 PricelessWare List. I do not see it
represented here as a list, but rather a great number of posts.
Certainly you must agree that in order for this list to be of any real
use to anyone, it must be published and represented in a concise manner.
That is in fact what the purpose of PricelessWare.org is, right? You
must agree that the list is far better represented on a web site. If
not, then you are certainly free to not use the website, and then also
you should have no further interest in this matter. ACF should remain
for some time, and is not in question.
>
> >Other sites can
> > mirror the list and use it as they see fit, but one site
> > needs to host the actual list as voted on by this group,
> > unaltered. This is absolutely required so the we the group
> > always know the current status of the PWL.
>
> We can have it here. Who said a sit can be "forever" and
> "unaltered"? It might be orginally a good intention. Here,
> the newsgroup itself, is our home. No site can replace it at
> all. But any websites can list our activities here and report
> it. They are channels, second handed.
>
I really don't see how a newsgroup can effectively represent the list as
well as a web site can, maybe I'm missing something here. I'm assuming
you've been to pricelessware.org. Just yesterday I was looking for a
file splitter, found chainsaw on the site. Now if I was looking in this
forum, could I have found a solution as quickly, I seriously doubt it.
That was the purpose of putting it on a web site to begin with.
But that's the thing, keeping the "full list of accurate PL results in
here, so people can find it and search for it and report it" is not
really practical in a newsgroup. I personally prefer to have it
represented on a web site. Again, if you do not, then you are certainly
free to search ACF to your hearts content. I personally do not prefer
this alternative. Pricelessware is voted on one per year AFAIK, and is
modified once per year, excepting cercimstances where malware or bugs
are discovered, or the developer wishes otherwise, so if you're not
present for the voting, then you've already missed the boat. You do not
have to be here regularily to benefit from the process. We are not to be
represented by a spokesperson, or an organization, rather this is the
purpose for the pricelessware web site, that is to visualize our wishes
as a group. The only way a group can reach a concensus is though a vote.
If one is not present for the vote, then his/her voice cannot be heard,
sorry but this is life in a democracy. I see no way to improve upon
this.
>
> >would fragment the PWL, I think
> > it would be best to name an "official" site.
>
> Fragment is not a bad thing.
> You have been around enough to see that this group always have
> different opinions, fragment can be a good thing (although we
> like to think we are, I do, at least, we are, nevertheness
> never a true collective here, not members but only
> participants, everyone is welcomed). It makes us have more
> differnt way of thinkings and more opinions. Having an
> official site, no matter who runs it, is exclusive and hard to
> avoid potiential unfair play from the future. Keeping it open
> is important.
>
True. But the list represents the opinions of those that do vote, and it
therefore should be represented somewhere in an accurate, unmodified
form. The site should be "run" by all of us. Susan should not speak for
the group, rather she is the tool that should be responsibly used by the
collective group, as it is, to visualize our wishes. It is true that
there are many who visit infrequently, but do contribute, although they
never vote.
Again as I have previously stated, the list is compiled through a voting
process, and is therefore generally done a year at a time. Once the
votes are tallied, and represented on the web site, it is there for the
world to use, there is nothing exclusive about that. If you feel the
voting process is too exclusive, then I suggest you offer a maintainable
alternative. Personally I feel that more than one list variant per year
would be mayhem, but that's just me.
R.L., perhaps you could better explain how hundreds / thounsands of
software programs could be categorized, and represent complete with
download links and homepage links in a purely text forum like this, I
just don't see it. I'd also love to hear alternatives to the voting
process currently employed to compile the list. Your mission, should you
choose to accept it, is to lay out, for those of us who don't get it,
your vision of what the list should be, and how it should be represented
for everyone to use.
HK
R. L.
news:2kllo9F...@uni-berlin.de:
>
> "R. L." <ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST> wrote in
> message news:Xns951A7FD14...@127.0.0.1...
>> "H-Man" <landelth...@cybersurf.net> says in
>> news:2klfogF...@uni-berlin.de:
>>
>> >> It sounds like to me you were thinking that there was
>> >> only ONE official site of Pricelessware and now you
>> >> insist that the *NEW* site needed to be thought of or
>> >> called "official". But this was all along a
>> >> misconception, not just by you, I was thinking that
>> >> way, too. But I realized that it is unsounded.
>> > "official" might not be the perfect word to describe it,
>> > but it is for lack of another the best. There needs to
>> > be a single site that hosts the list, the "official"
>> > version of which is generated by this very group.
>> Yes, but it doesn't have to be a "website", we in fact
>> already have a "site", here. Don't you see that? Here is
>> the most first-hand information one can get.
> You're absolutely correct, it doesn't have to be a website.
> And yes I can see that we have a forum (site) here. Tell me
> though, were on this site (acf) do I find the 2004
> PricelessWare List. I do not see it represented here as a
> list, but rather a great number of posts. Certainly you
That was the problem, too. We *think* we have a site and no
one actually bothered to make it more searchable in the group.
May be that is something we could work on.
> must agree that in order for this list to be of any real
> use to anyone, it must be published and represented in a
> concise manner. That is in fact what the purpose of
> PricelessWare.org is, right?
Yes, but anyone, any participants, should have the right to do
so. No one have the right *vote* someone out, though.
Shouldn't we encourage particaption and constribution rather
than discourage it? Say, if we vote for one site, other who
also want to report the PL list could potientially be
disouraged *expecially* in the current situation.
> You must agree that the list
> is far better represented on a web site. If not, then you
> are certainly free to not use the website, and then also
> you should have no further interest in this matter. ACF
> should remain for some time, and is not in question.
I do. And different formats in different sites would serve
users and participants of different tests and different needs,
isn't that what we want? Instead of sticking to some old
outdated notion of official this and that?
>> >Other sites can
>> > mirror the list and use it as they see fit, but one site
>> > needs to host the actual list as voted on by this group,
>> > unaltered. This is absolutely required so the we the
>> > group always know the current status of the PWL.
People are free to put together a list (in fact anyone can).
In addition, we need to find a way to make the archive here
more useful and understandable, too.
>> We can have it here. Who said a sit can be "forever" and
>> "unaltered"? It might be orginally a good intention.
>> Here, the newsgroup itself, is our home. No site can
>> replace it at all. But any websites can list our
>> activities here and report it. They are channels, second
>> handed.
> I really don't see how a newsgroup can effectively
> represent the list as well as a web site can, maybe I'm
> missing something here. I'm assuming you've been to
> pricelessware.org. Just yesterday I was looking for a file
> splitter, found chainsaw on the site. Now if I was looking
we are not talking about no sites, we are talking about to
encourage more sites.
IMO, we can have a list for us here (not for ordinary
searching, but for an official record), and other sites as our
channel, we should *encourage* more site to report the results
and activities from here, in order to promote freeware.
Anyone trying to claim their site as "official" in order to
make another look "inferier", no offence, it could
potientially be indecent and be used as "power-play" (and it
is not even far to force participants to "voted" for one over
another).
> Again, if you do not, then you are certainly free to search
> ACF to your hearts content. I personally do not prefer this
> alternative.
No, we are talking about MORE alternatives.
> Pricelessware is voted on one per year AFAIK,
> and is modified once per year, excepting cercimstances
> where malware or bugs are discovered, or the developer
> wishes otherwise, so if you're not present for the voting,
> then you've already missed the boat. You do not have to be
> here regularily to benefit from the process. We are not to
It is a poll, an opinion poll. And it is not life of death if
one missed it either.
>> Fragment is not a bad thing.
>> You have been around enough to see that this group always
>> have different opinions, fragment can be a good thing
>> (although we like to think we are, I do, at least, we are,
>> nevertheness never a true collective here, not members but
>> only participants, everyone is welcomed). It makes us
>> have more differnt way of thinkings and more opinions.
>> Having an official site, no matter who runs it, is
>> exclusive and hard to avoid potiential unfair play from
>> the future. Keeping it open is important.
> True. But the list represents the opinions of those that do
> vote, and it therefore should be represented somewhere in
> an accurate, unmodified form. The site should be "run" by
> all of us. Susan should not speak for the group, rather she
> is the tool that should be responsibly used by the
> collective group, as it is, to visualize our wishes.
But more than one persons more than one sites can do this even
better, as long as they can work together. Forcing us to vote
mean to force us to conceptually agree that one is more
"legitimate" than the other, how would that be far? We have
an open group here. Anyone should a equal legitimate to
contribute and participate.
> It is
> true that there are many who visit infrequently, but do
> contribute, although they never vote.
> If you feel the voting
> process is too exclusive, then I suggest you offer a
> maintainable alternative. Personally I feel that more than
> one list variant per year would be mayhem, but that's just
> me.
No, I don't think the "voting process" is exclusive in the
same sense you say. You vote for what is good software, that
is an opinion poll more precisely. That is no problem to make
the result as an recomendation to the public. But to vote for
who got to be the "official site" or who can *move* a site by
simply assuming that there can *always* be just one official
site dispite others who also want to contribute is not
construtive and productive in this situation.
> R.L., perhaps you could better explain how hundreds /
> thounsands of software programs could be categorized, and
> represent complete with download links and homepage links
> in a purely text forum like this,
There are of course more knowledgable people whoc an make
suggestion on this. But one way to do (I think we had) is to
have just a simple list and a link "as is", one category per
post (but again this is NOT for the general user, it is for
those who want to host the PL list to have the information.
In addition, people who host the PL list should also be
encourged to give out user-friendly format to other potiential
web-sites hoster (Garrett said he would provide downloadable
text files, I hope he'd really do that).
> I just don't see it. I'd
> also love to hear alternatives to the voting process
> currently employed to compile the list. Your mission,
> should you choose to accept it, is to lay out, for those of
> us who don't get it, your vision of what the list should
> be, and how it should be represented for everyone to use.
Again, I think you misunderstood me. I am all for user-
friendly websites. That is my point, the more the merrier.
Just like you have different version of linux. Every website
has their own design, their own color, their own way to report
Pricelessware list. Wouldn't that be fun? If they want,
Susan can have a relative "plain" list of some kind and Garret
can have a searchable site or vice ver sa or they both can
have differnt features and service in their sites. What's
wrong with that? Why do we have to insist one is more
"official" than the other?
> HK
H-Man
"R. L." <ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST> wrote in message
<SNIPPED to keep the thread from getting too long>
I better understand your point now R.L. Thanks for following up.
I just want to say that I completely agree that more alternatives are
better. I also undertand what you are saying about official this and
that, I, as others, used these terms because others really don't exist
to describe what I believe the pricelessware site to be. As you said,
anyone can do anything they want with this list, more sites are better.
I'm only saying that there should be one site and one site only that
answers to the wishes of this group, that all. And, primarily, that is
what this discussion is all about. That is whay there was a vote, so
that the wishes of the group would be carried out.
We are, as you have said, not always a cohesive group, and many
differences in opinion are seen in this forum. The only way for us to
know what the wishes of the group are is to vote, it is assumed then
that the majority rule would be in effect.
We agree then, I think that more freeware sites are better. I think we
disagree then that there should be only one site to reflect the wishes
of the ACF group, all other sites can, or not, respect the wishes of
this group. If we disagree on this point then so be it. This wouldn't be
the first time I've agreed to disagree. It is, afterall, only my
opinion, and differences of opinion are everywhere. Colors the world
somewhat, don't you think. :))
HK
Semolina Pilchard
<landelth...@cybersurf.net> wrote:
>
>I really don't see how a newsgroup can effectively represent the list as
>well as a web site can, maybe I'm missing something here. I'm assuming
>you've been to pricelessware.org. Just yesterday I was looking for a
>file splitter, found chainsaw on the site. Now if I was looking in this
>forum, could I have found a solution as quickly, I seriously doubt it.
>That was the purpose of putting it on a web site to begin with.
I think that's absolutely right. I know several people who don't read
a.c.f, some of whom have no idea that usenet exists, but they have a
list of freeware favourite sites in their browser headed up by
Pricelessware.
Ok, it's only one aspect of the group but it's a very important one
for the promotion of freeware.
--
Semolina Pilchard
R. L.
news:2klqimF...@uni-berlin.de:
>
> "R. L." <ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST> wrote in
> message news:Xns951A929E6...@127.0.0.1...
> <SNIPPED to keep the thread from getting too long>
>
> I better understand your point now R.L. Thanks for
> following up.
>
> I just want to say that I completely agree that more
> alternatives are better. I also undertand what you are
> saying about official this and that, I, as others, used
> these terms because others really don't exist to describe
> what I believe the pricelessware site to be. As you said,
> anyone can do anything they want with this list, more sites
> are better.
Yes :) it will make more people know about freeware.
> I'm only saying that there should be one site
> and one site only that answers to the wishes of this group,
> that all.
That can be an idea. However, wouldn't it be nice if more
sites also answer to the participants of this newsgroup if
they choose to and if they are willing to? In the beginning,
when Genna offered her space, her effort and her site to
answer to this group, we all welcomed it. Now, there are more
people want to to that, they should be all welcomed. They set
up a site, they ask for the participants what should be in it
what should not, they volunteered to answer to participant
here. It is a really good thing. And everyone should be
included without *voting*. What makes one more *official*
than the other if both or even more sites serve us equally
well and equally well-run?
> And, primarily, that is what this discussion is
> all about.
> That is whay there was a vote, so that the
> wishes of the group would be carried out.
In essense, it is an idea to think of it a vote. But it is
also an alternative idea, perhaps a more precise one to think
that it is a poll. And the person who conduct the poll agree
to follow the opinions indicated. However, the person who
conduct the poll to decide something that he/she has no power
over. Just like in this case, who has the complete right to
*vote* or call for a *vote* to say that one is official one is
not? That might perhaps the "vision" of some pioneers (e.g.,
Genna) of this group and truely thanks to them so we can get
this far, but it is not the ONLY way to do things.
> We are, as you have said, not always a cohesive group, and
> many differences in opinion are seen in this forum. The
> only way for us to know what the wishes of the group are is
> to vote, it is assumed then that the majority rule would be
> in effect.
Yes, it can only be in effect if the only conduct the *vote*
actually have the *power* to do so.
> We agree then, I think that more freeware sites are better.
> I think we disagree then that there should be only one site
> to reflect the wishes of the ACF group, all other sites
We have such a diversity here. The fact of having more than
one sites and no one is more legitimated than the other can
truely reflect this diversity and openness, too - the spirit
of freeware, especially "open freeware".
> can, or not, respect the wishes of this group. If we
> disagree on this point then so be it. This wouldn't be the
> first time I've agreed to disagree.
True :) Let's do that.
> It is, afterall, only
> my opinion, and differences of opinion are everywhere.
> Colors the world somewhat, don't you think. :))
Yes :-)
R. L.
news:MPG.1b4fd8a6a...@news.individual.de:
> On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 20:24:09 +0100, Semolina Pilchard
> wrote...
>
>> I know several people who don't read
>> a.c.f, some of whom have no idea that usenet exists, but
>> they have a list of freeware favourite sites in their
>> browser headed up by Pricelessware.
> Of my internet enabled family friends and colleagues, I
> would guesstimate that at least 75% wouldn't have a clue
> about what usenet is - therefore I would agree with your
> statement.
True :)
> Usenet to me is one of lifes (semi) hidden little pleasures
> :-)
>
Like you sig :-) the more the merrier!! Perhaps I might
consider put up a list on my site too for the 2005 ones :)
Just to have fun!
»Q«
<news:2kllo9F...@uni-berlin.de>:
> Tell me though, were on this site (acf) do I find the 2004
> PricelessWare List. I do not see it represented here as a list,
> but rather a great number of posts.
The 2004 list was only put on the website, not posted here AFAICT.
In some previous years, the PL was posted to the group. Here is the
2002 finalized list, available at two archiving sites.
<http://howardk.freenix.org/msgid.cgi?ID=108880108400>
Having the 2004 list on the easily sortable website for review
during post-vote discussions was invaluable, and I don't think
anyone saw the need to post the entire list to the newsgroup. IMO
it would be a good idea to also post it to the newsgroup from now
on, at least once it is finalized. I also think the actual vote
tallies should be posted every year (and IIRC this has always been
done anyway).
Regardless of what shakes out regarding one/two/multiple website(s),
official/unofficial/legitimate/illegitimate websites, I think it
would be a Very Good Thing if the group is clear on who should be
the point person in the discussion/vote/discussion process that
decides the PL for 2005. If the process somehow turns into a
clusterfsck, website questions and issues won't matter much. OTOH,
if the process is clear, the list itself will be fine no matter what
issues surround the website(s).
--
»Q«
R. L.
»news:MrQ951AAC21B...@QsFQDN.dyndns.org:
> Having the 2004 list on the easily sortable website for
> review during post-vote discussions was invaluable, and I
> don't think anyone saw the need to post the entire list to
> the newsgroup. IMO it would be a good idea to also post it
> to the newsgroup from now on, at least once it is
> finalized. I also think the actual vote tallies should be
> posted every year (and IIRC this has always been done
> anyway).
>
agree :)
--
RL
*******************************************
Unofficial Adaware Updater; Little (File) Backer Upper; Uptime
Quickie; Lefty Animated Cursors;
http://home.earthlink.net/~ringomei/page2.html
*******************************************
Places that are listing or will list the Pricelessware annual
voting results and information
http://www.pricelessware.org
http://lesspriceware.netfirms.com/ (under construction, by
Paul Blarmy)
Garrett
Noted and will verify when possible before adding to the site.
Thanks,
-Garrett
Garrett
> Garrett wrote:
> >
> > Ben Cooper wrote:
> >
> > > BTW, would you please remove me from-
> > > http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
> >
> > Your request is noted and will be verified before the site is next
> > updated.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > -Garrett
>
> I like my name also to be removed.
> Thank you
> Omar
Noted and I will verify with you before it's done.
Thanks,
-Garrett
John Fitzsimons
<whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
< snip >
>We did vote on *moving* the Pricelessware List.
We didn't. We voted you move your files. The site couldn't move
without the owner's permission. Which you didn't get.
John Fitzsimons
>> John Fitzsimons <DELETEu...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>> Susan Bugher
>>>The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the Pricelessware
>>>List web site.
>>No, they voted that YOU move your files to another site if you were
>>unwilling to cooperate with Genna.
><10ddph5...@corp.supernews.com>
>Above is the original message calling for a vote.
>Fourth paragraph:
>"I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location."
>Ending paragraph:
>"Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please."
>>So do it. Do what the group asked you to do.
You are totally ignoring the content of the thread. A vote to move the
domain couldn't be done without the site owners permission. Which
Susan didn't get. The discussion then devolved into what to do with
Susan's work if she couldn't cooperate with Genna.
I, and others, voted she move her files elsewhere. Susan is pretending
we voted otherwise. Which isn't correct.
John Fitzsimons
<ringomeinew@_hot_mail_.YOU_KNOW_THE_REST> wrote:
>Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> says in
>news:10e8vl5...@corp.supernews.com:
>> The alt.comp.freeware newsgroup has voted to *move* the
>> Pricelessware List web site. I'm sure we can work out
>> arrangements for a mirror site if you would like to have
>> one.
>When the vote were conducted, it was never really clear that
>what the "move" is in a more concrete term. Moving the files
>do not mean to move the site per se.
< snip >
Exactly right. There was no point voting to move the site if the site
owner objected to this. Susan didn't even bother to find out if it was
okay with Genna. That being the case many of us voted that
Susan take her files off the site. Not move it.
John Fitzsimons
<whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
< snip >
>My position as
>webmaster and point person for alt.comp.freeware was ratified recently
>by alt.comp.freeware newsgroup participants when they supported my
>request to move the Pricelessware List web site.
Nope, a number supported your moving your files elsewhere. Not moving
the web site.
There is no need for the latter. :-)
Omar©
All it takes is an e-mail.
Susan Bugher
> Regardless of what shakes out regarding one/two/multiple website(s),
> official/unofficial/legitimate/illegitimate websites, I think it
> would be a Very Good Thing if the group is clear on who should be
> the point person in the discussion/vote/discussion process that
> decides the PL for 2005. If the process somehow turns into a
> clusterfsck, website questions and issues won't matter much. OTOH,
> if the process is clear, the list itself will be fine no matter what
> issues surround the website(s).
It would be helpful if Garrett stated his intentions. If Garrett does
not wish to be point person for PL2005 then IMO there will be no need
for further discussion ATM.
I've been point person for the group since last fall. AFAIK to date this
has not been elective position. IOW - the person who held the position
held it until they chose to step down.
I plan to start a discussion of the voting procedure, the selection
process following the vote etc. etc. *soon* - so that we will have
agreed upon procedures when nominations for PL2005 begin.
ISTM that if Garrett does wish to act as point person for PL2005 then
he should make that clear now and call for a vote *ASAP*.
Susan
Box134
wore a mask! Maybe just New York Ranger fans.
"Gump Worsley's Mask" <gum...@thenet.invalid> wrote in message
news:VYdFc.6887$Wp81...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
> I totally agree with you
>
> cidr
Box134
did wear a mask. I thought he retired before that but I saw him in what I
think was a Minnesota Northstars uniform wearing a mask.
"Box134" <box...@wooky.invalid> wrote in message
news:ZnqGc.64373$gf1.1...@news1.mts.net...