Irreconcilable Differences
Susan Bugher
"PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not going
to work.
I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to
blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.
I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in the past (IIRC
the last move was about two years ago). Some free sites have been
offered. If they are not suitable others can be found. Hosting details -
who, how, where etc. will require discussion.
The move itself is not a Big Deal. Getting the Pricelessware site up and
running at a new location will only take a few hours.
I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring that
the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily by others
when I leave.
I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I want to
ensure that it won't happen again.
Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please.
Susan
FYI: I sent Genna an email when I started the "PL issues" thread. I will
notify her this time too.
*ProteanThread*
news:10ddph5...@corp.supernews.com...
I have room on http://www.villagecouncil.net I can share; no charge no cost
and no conditions to you or acf.
--
Woodzy
http://www.rtdos.com (alt OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (charged political discussion)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)
http://rtdos.com/chat
Chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
every Sunday @ 1PM MDT (1900 GMT)
Cousin Stanley
A standard course of action for putting together alternate systems
is to leave the *working version* of any software system in tact
and to build a *prototype version* that can be developed at a
leisurely pace in parallel without affecting the original ....
Then, when the prototype is fully functional,
migration to the new system is done ....
This is tantamount to proverbially ....
"Having one's cake and eating it too" ....
--
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona
rir3760
<whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly
> in the "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further
> exchange of emails.
>
> The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not
> going to work.
>
> I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was
> to blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom
> line.
And yet at the same time you want the acf's regulars to comment and
vote about moving the PL site without knowing the details?
If they are going to decide if the PL website is going to be moved to
a new location (or not) then you must give them all the information
you can about what is *not* working.
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
Geena has kindly provided a host for the PL website that is both
stable and reliable. Why to move it to a new host when the current
one is working OK?
[Snip]
> I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring
> that the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily
> by others when I leave.
Can you please tell us how is the PL information being stored right
now? And what format are you using, plain text/spreadsheat/database?
> I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I
> want to ensure that it won't happen again.
>
> Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please.
IMHO the PL website should stay being hosted by Geena.
Best regards
*ProteanThread*
news:Xns950F69E3...@127.0.0.1...
> It was a dark and stormy night when Susan Bugher
> <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
>
>
> And yet at the same time you want the acf's regulars to comment and
> vote about moving the PL site without knowing the details?
*ODD*
> If they are going to decide if the PL website is going to be moved to
> a new location (or not) then you must give them all the information
> you can about what is *not* working.
*OK*
> Geena has kindly provided a host for the PL website that is both
> stable and reliable. Why to move it to a new host when the current
> one is working OK?
> [Snip]
*ALRIGHT*
> Can you please tell us how is the PL information being stored right
> now? And what format are you using, plain text/spreadsheat/database?
*CURIOUS*
> IMHO the PL website should stay being hosted by Geena.
>
> Best regards
I agree, can't really help unless we know what issues are involved here
without starting a flamewar. But if a new webhost needs to be found, I have
room on http://www.villagecouncil.net or I'm sure another can be found at
little or no cost.
--
Woodzy
http://www.rtdos.com (alternate OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (politically charged discussions)
http://rtdos.com/guestbook (submit your links here)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)
http://rtdos.com/chat
retro themed chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
Susan Bugher
> It was a dark and stormy night when Susan Bugher
> <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly
>>in the "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further
>>exchange of emails.
>>
>>The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not
>>going to work.
>>
>>I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was
>>to blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom
>>line.
>
> And yet at the same time you want the acf's regulars to comment and
> vote about moving the PL site without knowing the details?
>
> If they are going to decide if the PL website is going to be moved to
> a new location (or not) then you must give them all the information
> you can about what is *not* working.
IIRC the last move was made without a such a discussion. Please correct
me if I am wrong on this and point me to the discussion threads.
AFAICT this has not been regarded as a Big Deal in the past. I don't
regard it as a Big Deal now. I *do* believe newsgroup participants
should make this decision.
>>I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
>
> Geena has kindly provided a host for the PL website that is both
> stable and reliable. Why to move it to a new host when the current
> one is working OK?
> [Snip]
I would not have begun this thread if I subscribed to your POV. IMO the
current arrangements are not "working OK".
>>I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring
>>that the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily
>>by others when I leave.
>
>
> Can you please tell us how is the PL information being stored right
> now? And what format are you using, plain text/spreadsheat/database?
I have done that a nunber of times - the most recent discussion was in
the "PL issues" thread. See this thread for full details:
>>I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I
>>want to ensure that it won't happen again.
>>
>>Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please.
>
>
> IMHO the PL website should stay being hosted by Geena.
Noted.
> Best regards
likewise :)
Susan
--
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
alt.comp.freeware FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
Alex Balfour
work she does for this group and for the professional, timely manner in
which she carries it out. Her proposal gets my vote as a result.
Alex Balfour
Dan Goodman
> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in
> the "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of
> emails.
>
> The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not
> going to work.
>
> I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to
> blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.
>
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
My vote: Move.
--
Dan Goodman Journal http://dsgood.blogspot.com or
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood/
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
MLC
<news:10ddph5...@corp.supernews.com>:
> Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please.
If the terms are "move the site or move Susan", I vote to move the site.
No doubt.
--
Maria Luisa C - 21/06/2004 20.20.49, here.
http://fido.altervista.org/index.php
*ProteanThread*
news:10de4tj...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> IIRC the last move was made without a such a discussion. Please correct
> me if I am wrong on this and point me to the discussion threads.
Doesn't bother me one way or another. Lately tho....but....
> AFAICT this has not been regarded as a Big Deal in the past. I don't
> regard it as a Big Deal now. I *do* believe newsgroup participants
> should make this decision.
Why not wait until the end of the year when we do the next PL votes ?
> I would not have begun this thread if I subscribed to your POV. IMO the
> current arrangements are not "working OK".
But what *IS* the *REAL* issue ??
> I have done that a nunber of times - the most recent discussion was in
> the "PL issues" thread. See this thread for full details:
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=database+spreadsheet+group:alt.comp.freeware+author:bugher&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=vvtpdcc1ad4cf%40corp.supernews.com&rnum=3
The only thread that comes up is what you used to develop the website, is
that what you mean ? Why would that be an issue ??
> Susan
> --
> Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
> PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
> alt.comp.freeware FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
thanks.
--
Woodzy
http://www.rtdos.com (alt OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (charged political discussion)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)
http://rtdos.com/chat
Chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
Larry Sabo
>I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
>
>I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring that
>the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily by others
>when I leave.
I am very grateful for the incredible amount of work you have put into
Pricelessware. You have my confidence and support to do whatever you
propose regarding the site.
Best regards,
Larry
---
Reply to larry sabo (one word) at istop dot com.
Ben Cooper
[snip]
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
>
> The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in the past
> (IIRC the last move was about two years ago). Some free sites have
> been offered. If they are not suitable others can be found. Hosting
> details - who, how, where etc. will require discussion.
>
> The move itself is not a Big Deal. Getting the Pricelessware site up
> and running at a new location will only take a few hours.
>
> I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring that
> the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily by others
> when I leave.
>
> I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I want to
> ensure that it won't happen again.
>
> Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please.
I vote to move.
--
Ben Cooper
histo...@hotmail.com
Semolina Pilchard
<whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
>Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
>"PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
>
>The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not going
>to work.
>
>I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to
>blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.
>
>I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
I'm grateful to Genna for the years of work she did in the past and
for hosting the Pricelessware List. That said, it seems to me that
there are probably numerous sites where the List could reside, but
there's only one Susan.
If she has determined that she can no longer maintain the site where
it is, then it has to be moved. I think she deserves our support in
that for all the work she has done and is doing.
--
Semolina Pilchard
mike ring
news:qmded056m04rq0482...@4ax.com:
>
> I am very grateful for the incredible amount of work you have put into
> Pricelessware. You have my confidence and support to do whatever you
> propose regarding the site.
>
Second that
mike
burnr
@corp.supernews.com:
In my mind, the PL site is the fruit of your efforts and if you feel the
need to move, I will support that. My vote is to move.
*ProteanThread*
news:Xns950FAA6E8...@130.133.1.4...
>
> That's not the impression I got from reading the earlier discussion. It
> seemed like there had simply been a miscommunication. Genna wanted to
make
> things more maintainable...you (apparently erroneously) thought that your
> role was being threatened. What's the real issue here? I don't mean to
be
> overly critical, but you're always saying things should be 'discussed' in
> acf...kind of implying we should get all the information. We're clearly
> not getting all the information here. Why is discussion being supressed?
>
> --
> Cheers,
> jason
I'm confused as well.
Jeers.
n e a d
wrote:
[snip]
>
>I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
[snip]
Susan,
How much space on the current server does the Pricelessware site take up?
(in MB's)
How much traffic (hits) in a month? (In MB's).
Just curious...as may be anyone who is thinking of donating server space.
Thanks!
Sam
--
remove 'mynuts' to reply via email
PuppyKatt
"Susan Bugher" <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in message
news:10ddph5...@corp.supernews.com...
: Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in
:
:
Omar©
Susan my vote is to move.
Best regards
Omar
--
"When I am right, No one remembers
When I am wrong, No one forgets"
Mister Charlie
Kerry.
Oh, um, er.......move.
Ben A Gozar
The last move and design change was a big improvement imo, I fail to see
how a redesign will be less than equal.
Susan Bugher
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
>>Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
>>"PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
>>
>>The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not going
>>to work.
>
> That's not the impression I got from reading the earlier discussion. It
> seemed like there had simply been a miscommunication. Genna wanted to make
> things more maintainable...you (apparently erroneously) thought that your
> role was being threatened. What's the real issue here?
The *question* is: should the Pricelessware List move to a new web site.
> I don't mean to be
> overly critical, but you're always saying things should be 'discussed' in
> acf...kind of implying we should get all the information. We're clearly
> not getting all the information here. Why is discussion being supressed?
*Information* is being suppressed - of necessity. Much of the discussion
was private. I did not choose the email venue - my preference was (as
always) an open discussion in the newsgroup.
I plead guilty to strong convictions - I *am* always saying things
should be discussed in ACF and *decided* by newsgroup participants. I do
believe the group should have *all* the information.
That said - I believe your comment about suppressing *discussion* refers
to this statement:
"I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to
blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line."
The past is past - that discussion is over - and it is under a seal of
privacy. . .
I see no *way* to discuss the past. . .
I see no *point* in discussing the past. . .
That's the way it looks from where I'm sitting.
Won Dampchin
...[clipped]...
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
I can't think of anyone who can compare with Susan's efforts in supporting
and empowering so many in their computer-related needs, desires, and
experiences - and all this without recompense. I, for one, find it a most
welcome opportunity to now offer support by voting for Susan to move to a
place in which she can comfortably continue her most welcome and valuable
work.
Many thanks Susan...Bon Voyage! Keep in touch!
Susan Bugher
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:46:13 -0400, Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
>
>
> [snip]
>
> Susan,
>
> How much space on the current server does the Pricelessware site take up?
> (in MB's)
ATM less than 10 MB - that's based on the sum of the file sizes on my
computer
> How much traffic (hits) in a month? (In MB's).
I don't know.
> Just curious...as may be anyone who is thinking of donating server space.
> Thanks!
> Sam
HTH a little
Roger Johansson
> there are probably numerous sites where the List could reside, but
> there's only one Susan.
Well said.
I think the problems between Genna and Susan should be cleared out in
public, that is the right way to handle it, but if that is not possible
I have to support Susans wish to move because of the excellent way she
takes care of the PL web site.
I would welcome a clarification from Genna of what has happened though.
I am very puzzled by this, and curious.
It takes two to tango.
--
Roger J.
REM
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
>Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
>"PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
>The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not going
>to work.
>I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to
>blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.
>I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
As others have pointed out there is something "mysterious" about
discussing an issue in which the details are confidential.
The reason the details are confidential is that they occurred in email
and you consider this a "confidential" medium as I understand it. It
is as simple as that isn't it? No conspiracies? Nothing more than the
subject header suggests?
As the powerhouse of the Pricelessware List (you, that is) since I
began reading this group my vote is to move, as that is what you
request to continue doing the outstanding work that you do.
I really haven't been very involved in the PL list in the past. On
each occasion that you and I have interacted via email to set up a
link, track down a program, or whatever, you have been extremely
friendly, professional, and have made any PL changes immediately.
All of this... as a volunteer. Outstanding. I'm awed.
>The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in the past (IIRC
>the last move was about two years ago). Some free sites have been
>offered. If they are not suitable others can be found. Hosting details -
>who, how, where etc. will require discussion.
>The move itself is not a Big Deal. Getting the Pricelessware site up and
>running at a new location will only take a few hours.
As I offered in email, I can offer a host site also. There are no
personal files or email or anything confidential there; just some
freeware files for download. There is plenty of spare bandwidth.
>I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring that
>the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily by others
>when I leave.
Excellent. Don't plan on packing any bags soon though (I hope).
>I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I want to
>ensure that it won't happen again.
If you need a site with free rein as webmaster/project manager in
order to be your happily efficient self I vote to move.
I'm sure that most of us at some point has been in a working
environment that requires a major change. I've had three jobs over the
years, and in leaving each one it seemed like my little world was
dangling. I've been all the better with each move, however, and the
details about what created the need for each change are all moot.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Night2000
>Susan Bugher wrote:
>
>> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
>> "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
>>
>> The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not going
>> to work.
>
>That's not the impression I got from reading the earlier discussion. It
>seemed like there had simply been a miscommunication. Genna wanted to make
>things more maintainable...you (apparently erroneously) thought that your
>role was being threatened. What's the real issue here? I don't mean to be
>overly critical, but you're always saying things should be 'discussed' in
>acf...kind of implying we should get all the information. We're clearly
>not getting all the information here. Why is discussion being supressed?
From the very beginning, you could see this coming. Genna has been
absent from this group for so long. Many have forgotten her, and have
no loyalty. There would be no Pricelessware if it weren't for her, and
SOS. Thank you Genna, for paying out of your own pocket, and hosting
the Pricelessware list for us all these years.
Genna Reeney
Susan Bugher wrote:
> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in
> the "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of
> emails.
I would not say that we have communicated.
I have addressed all of your questions.
You have continued to ask questions, demanding answers under the threat of
shutting down e-mail exchanges, yet you have neither acknowledged my
responses nor answered my own requests for clarification as to the nature of
the problem.
> The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working.
You have not given one example of how the current arrangement was not
working.
You have not articulated a logical rationale for the need of a move to a new
server.
> It's not going to work.
That last sentence is indeed the problem.
You are not interested in making anything work.
Furthermore, you are giving the impression that I am the one who is being
intransigent when you are the one who has refused to discuss anything openly
and rationally.
You are correct in one respect. "Because I want it" is likely to get it for
you, but I will NOT let you do it at my expense, by continuously and
willfully misrepresenting the situation and calling my ethics into question.
> I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to
> blame etc. etc. etc.
It is rather a shame than in asking the members of this group to make a
decision, you are unwilling to inform them as to the facts of the case.
Could it be perhaps because the facts alone do not substantiate the claim?
Isn't it ironic though? You misrepresent the facts to the newsgroup, not
once but several times, yet ask them to take on faith the need for a move to
a different server. I state both publicly and privately that I have no
intention of taking over for you, yet my word is not sufficient for you.
> Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.
>
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
At least this is honest.
Pity that you could not have had the courtesy of stating your primary goal
to me as clearly as you have here.
Pity that you could not have had the courtesy of not disguising your true
goal under a misrepresentation of unethical behavior on my part.
> The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in the past
> (IIRC the last move was about two years ago).
The PL was hosted only on two sites prior to its current home.
It was originally on SOS's site and when that became unavailable at one
point, I hosted it with the understanding that any time SOS wanted it back,
he only had to ask.
Moving the PL to the current site was done in order to have a permanent,
dedicated home for the PL.
> Some free sites have
> been offered. If they are not suitable others can be found. Hosting
> details - who, how, where etc. will require discussion.
Why a move is necessary and what issues will be resolved by moving the site
are points that have not yet been addressed.
> The move itself is not a Big Deal. Getting the Pricelessware site up
> and running at a new location will only take a few hours.
>
> I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring that
> the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily by others
> when I leave.
>
> I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I want to
> ensure that it won't happen again.
Susan, this is a self-serving statement that smacks of bad faith.
The group would NOT be in the position it is now if you had not overreacted.
Period.
The group would NOT be in the position it is now if you had discussed
matters in good faith. Period.
This is self-created drama at its best.
You gambled that I would not respond in the newsgroup after the first post
you made. And as I have said to you, the irony is that had you not so
willfully and consistently misrepresented the facts and called my ethics
into question, I probably would not have responded.
You have now twice abruptly terminated email conversations by turning to the
group, without giving the group the benefit of all the facts. That is
deceitful.
Finally, your statement again is implying that I am somehow abusing the
trust placed in me. You have yet to give any evidence of this, despite
repeated requests on my part.
> FYI: I sent Genna an email when I started the "PL issues" thread. I
> will notify her this time too.
While this accurate, it is also misleading.
It would have been more correct to state that in lieu of a response to my
questions about the specific needs for a move, you have posted this thread
requesting said move. The manner of your post would tend to suggest that you
have tried everything to resolve the situation while I have been
unreasonable.
The reality is actually quite the opposite.
As with her first post to this newsgroup, Susan has willfully and
continuously misrepresented the facts.
The title of this thread alone is indicative of the situation. Susan has yet
to specify what the issues are that necessitate a move to a new site.
Insofar as she has not done so, how could we have any differences, let alone
irreconcilable ones?
Prior to this situation, there had been no issue. Not once has Susan ever
commented on any problems or expressed a desire, let alone a need, to have
anything structured any differently than it has been up until now. The only
logical conclusion is that it was the email in which I mentioned a move to a
database that has so affected Susan.
As has already been posted elsewhere, the database project was nothing new.
For all Susan's protestations in the initial thread on this subject, this
was not new information to her either.
Furthermore, it might be worthwhile noting that it was Susan herself who
indicated to me earlier this year that the PL might not be long in her
future. This fact she has neglected to bring up to the group, but it is
quite significant in the chain of events. It was precisely because of that
statement that the concept of the database was revived. Susan herself
acknowledges in this thread that a list that can be "easily maintained or
prepared by others" is the way to go.
The initial incident was a grossly overblown miscommunication that could
have been and should have been settled privately in a matter of a couple of
e-mail exchanges. Instead of simply addressing the issues, Susan became
increasingly irrational and posted here under false pretenses, declaring
that there was an urgent and immediate need to move the site. None of her
claims to urgency have been sustained in reality. What indeed was the
pressing and urgent need that sent this newsgroup into a frenzy a few weeks
back?
I take issue with Susan's insinuation that I have been inflexible, making a
power grab or any other such nonsense. That is just simply not true and not
an accurate representation of the facts. I have repeatedly asked Susan what
it is that she wants and have yet to receive a response. I have asked very
directed questions, including whether it was my involvement alone to which
she objected, yet have received no response. There has been no articulated
rationale for the need to move the site elsewhere.
What is perhaps much more telling is that when I expressed my belief that
the PL was a collaborative process and that I had never viewed it as a Power
issue, I was told that I should. That statement should give the members of
the newsgroup pause.
If there is a question as to who is really flexing muscle here, I would like
to point to these 2 statements:
"I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was to blame
etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line. I would like
to move the Pricelessware List to a new location."
"I see no *point* in discussing the past. . ."
What is truly sad here is that I have always championed Susan from the
start. Whenever I had a difference of opinion with her, I addressed it to
her in private as not to undermine her. I have posted my opinion on a couple
of separate occasions, but never have I pressed my point nor left the
newsgroup in a huff as has been suggested. But I find myself now in the
bewildering position of having to explain away motivations I do not have.
There is no doubt that Susan has done a tremendous amount of work for the
PL. While her claims about always discussing and resolving matters in the
newsgroup are disingenuous, I don't think there are many who could or would
find fault with her efforts. But Susan's actions of the past few weeks leave
me with a great uneasiness. The members of this newsgroup should think long
and hard whether someone who is so inflexible, so closed-minded, so
manipulative, so deceitful is really the best person to represent the values
of the PL.
I have forwarded to SOS the necessary information that will remove the need
for my own future involvement.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> I would not have begun this thread if I subscribed to your POV. IMO
> the
> current arrangements are not "working OK".
Again, you are asked for specifics.
Again, you are evasive.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> You are the one putting the work in; you should be working in as
> stress free an environment as possible.
> The current web host is suffering from control freakery and is giving
> you grief. Move.
There has been no evidence of control freakery.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> If she has determined that she can no longer maintain the site where
> it is, then it has to be moved. I think she deserves our support in
> that for all the work she has done and is doing.
Susan has not shown why it is that she cannot maintain the site where it is
currently.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> I would welcome a clarification from Genna of what has happened
> though. I am very puzzled by this, and curious.
I hope that my post was sufficient to clarify matters.
--
Cheers,
Genna
ranrad
> From the very beginning, you could see this coming. Genna has been
> absent from this group for so long. Many have forgotten her, and have
> no loyalty. There would be no Pricelessware if it weren't for her, and
> SOS. Thank you Genna, for paying out of your own pocket, and hosting
> the Pricelessware list for us all these years.
I've lurked here for many years now, had my ears pinned back when I
inadvertantly mis-spelt Genna as Geena.
I can remember Genna, SOS, Tiger, John Corlis, all regulars, and all the
founders of ACF & Pricelessware if memory serves.
My view, they should decide. I haven't seen or heard of Genna in a long
while, but if she is still involved then her wishes should be respected.
Susan, if you are not happy then do a web site of Pricelessware the way you
want it, let Genna keep her site the way she wants it then the ACF readers
can make their own choice which one they go to and/or prefer.
HTH, but I doubt it will :-)
*ProteanThread*
news:2jprufF...@uni-berlin.de...
I just want to know what the issues are that caused this.
»Q«
> The *question* is: should the Pricelessware List move to a new web
> site.
Why should that question even be considered?
> *Information* is being suppressed - of necessity. Much of the
> discussion was private. I did not choose the email venue - my
> preference was (as always) an open discussion in the newsgroup.
Yet if you have reasons for wanting to remove the PL from
pricelessware.org, they are your reasons, and you are free to
discuss them here even if you have already discussed them in e-mail.
To support the notion that we should not need to discuss this, you
note in another post that there was no discussion when the PL went
to pricelessware.org. There was none because everyone thought it
was a good idea, a no-brainer. Pricelessware.org was and is the
ideal domain for the PL, easy to search for or to remember. (There
was some discussion of the pricelessware.com and .net domains, which
were not available.) Prior to pricelessware.org, it could be a PiTA
to find the PL on the web, whereas now it is very easy.
In the absence of reasons to remove the PL from pricelessware.org,
it should stay. And reasons for removing it do not appear to be
forthcoming.
--
»Q«
Susan Bugher
> This situation is surreal.
>
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
>>Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in
>>the "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of
>>emails.
>
>
> I would not say that we have communicated.
>
> I have addressed all of your questions.
> You have continued to ask questions, demanding answers under the threat of
> shutting down e-mail exchanges, yet you have neither acknowledged my
> responses nor answered my own requests for clarification as to the nature of
> the problem.
>
>
>>The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working.
>
>
> You have not given one example of how the current arrangement was not
> working.
> You have not articulated a logical rationale for the need of a move to a new
> server.
Hello Genna,
IMO you have rather thoroughly breached the seal of privacy on the email
correspondence and I now am free to respond.
Here is one example of how the current arrangement has been "working".
Below is a copy of an email I sent to Genna on Feb. 24 of this year:
--------------
Subject: Pricelessware Help File
From: Susan Bugher
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:25:40 -0500
To: "Reeney, Genna"
Hi Genna,
FYI - let me and/or the group know if you have any concerns about this.
Karen S created two CHM files of the Pricelessware site. The Subject
heading for the thread about that is: CHM of Pricelessware, here
<q>
If anyone might want it... I've a copy of the Pricelessware.org site
compiled into HTML Help format, for offline reference/reading.
</q>
I uploaded the files to the PL site per a suggestion in the thread. What
is the size limit on the PL site? (The two files total close to 2MB.)
While I'm here . . .
Do you foresee yourself doing the Pricelessware pages in the future?
If you don't plan to return to the fray I'll work on Plan B: some means
of ensuring that maintainance of the site can be continued easily by others.
My long term goal is to work myself out of a job . . .
Susan
--------------
The next email I received from Genna was sent on June 5th.
Genna told me in later emails that this email was her *response* to my
Feb. 29th email.
Here is a copy of that email:
------------
Subject: PL issues
From: "Genna Reeney" <willowbr...@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 18:59:54 -0400
To: "Susan Bugher" <sebu...@kvi.net>
Hi Susan -
Hope your summer is going well.
I wanted to check if you were you have had enough of the stress of manning
the PL.
Just to let you know:
- I changed the logo on the front page. I hated how it looked
- the 2001 May final PL is uploaded http://pricelessware.org/2001/
- the 2000 Feb final PL is uploaded http://pricelessware.org/2000/
- the original PL is uploaded http://pricelessware.org/first/
------------
It's perhaps worth noting a couple of points:
I began a thread on May 30th. Subject: Cumulative Pricelessware List
Genna did not participate in that discussion. I completed the revisions
to the Cumulative Pricelessware List on June 4th.
Genna's post was sent on June 5th.
I do not know if the programs on Genna's pages correspond to the
programs on the Cumulative List. She did not furnish that information
and I have not had time to make a detailed comparison.
The page that Genna "hated" and revised was one of my pages. It is
located in a part of the site that I do not have access to.
IMO all of you should now have *some* idea of why I think it is
necessary to move the Pricelessware List.
failure to communicate in a timely manner. . .
failure to respond to my questions. . .
I've been working around *unnecessary* problems for a long time. . .
IMO it's time to move to a new web site.
I have not responded to the remainder of Genna's post. If newsgroup
participants wish me to respond I will post more of the email
correspondence. IMO that would not serve any useful purpose but I will
oblige if the group feels it is necessary.
Susan
Tramp
says...
|The page that Genna "hated" and revised was one of my pages. It is
|located in a part of the site that I do not have access to.
Stop exaggerating things. This is exactly what Genna was talking about.
You are totally twisting the facts. Genna has already stated that the
only part of the site that you don't have access to is the control panel
<8e2yc.1142$Di3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> she stated the
reason why you don't have access to this. She stated also stated that
lack of access to this section in no way hinders your ability to manage
the Pricelessware site. Yet here you are implying that there are more
things you don't have access to. Implying that you can't do your job
because of limitations set up by Genna.
Susan Bugher
> Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in
> <news:10dfe10...@corp.supernews.com>:
>
>
>>The *question* is: should the Pricelessware List move to a new web
>>site.
>
> Why should that question even be considered?
Working conditions are difficult.
>>*Information* is being suppressed - of necessity. Much of the
>>discussion was private. I did not choose the email venue - my
>>preference was (as always) an open discussion in the newsgroup.
>
> Yet if you have reasons for wanting to remove the PL from
> pricelessware.org, they are your reasons, and you are free to
> discuss them here even if you have already discussed them in e-mail.
IMO private means *private* - I don't feel that door can be opened
partway. . . Genna has broken the seal of privacy with a flurry of
accusations. I just posted a response.
If you have further questions after reading that please ask.
> To support the notion that we should not need to discuss this, you
> note in another post that there was no discussion when the PL went
> to pricelessware.org. There was none because everyone thought it
> was a good idea, a no-brainer. Pricelessware.org was and is the
> ideal domain for the PL, easy to search for or to remember. (There
> was some discussion of the pricelessware.com and .net domains, which
> were not available.) Prior to pricelessware.org, it could be a PiTA
> to find the PL on the web, whereas now it is very easy.
Domains can be moved to new hosts. I don't know if Genna will allow use
of the pricelessware.org domain if the decision is to move. IMO that is
not an *overwhelming* problem. A PITA - yes.
> In the absence of reasons to remove the PL from pricelessware.org,
> it should stay. And reasons for removing it do not appear to be
> forthcoming.
IMO the proposed move is not a Big Deal. Genna has chosen to make it a
Big Deal. I hoped to *avoid* a public blood letting. The situation has
changed - the bloodshed has started. So be it. Answers will be made.
Genna Reeney
>
> IMO you have rather thoroughly breached the seal of privacy on the
> email correspondence and I now am free to respond.
Referring to something in general terms is a far cry from reposting an
e-mail, which includes my e-mail address in a non-spam-proof manner.
I am hereby requesting that you cancel your post.
If you feel the need to recopy the contents of my e-mails, I would request
that you would have the decency of not subjecting me to further spam. That
you would recopy it in the first place, and that you would do it in the
manner in which you do it, says much more about you than I ever could.
> The next email I received from Genna was sent on June 5th.
>
> Genna told me in later emails that this email was her *response* to my
> Feb. 29th email.
This is incorrect.
My response to your e-mail from February was sent on March 4th:
"Cool.
We should talk."
No, I *never* said that the June 5th e-mail was my response to your February
e-mail. Why would I? Again, you are misrepresenting the facts.
Yes, I didn't get into further details. There was NO urgency. The 2005 PL
was more than 8 months away.
Yes, I didn't respond to the question about the size limit. Yes, I should
have. I honestly don't remember reading it, so it's possible that it didn't
register. Having said that, what prevented you from sending you a follow-up
e-mail? If there are failings, you should accept your share of
responsibility, something you are systematically unwilling to do.
> It's perhaps worth noting a couple of points:
>
> I began a thread on May 30th. Subject: Cumulative Pricelessware List
>
> Genna did not participate in that discussion. I completed the
> revisions
> to the Cumulative Pricelessware List on June 4th.
I didn't comment because there was nothing to add at that point.
> Genna's post was sent on June 5th.
>
> I do not know if the programs on Genna's pages correspond to the
> programs on the Cumulative List. She did not furnish that information
> and I have not had time to make a detailed comparison.
Those are the original listings.
> The page that Genna "hated" and revised was one of my pages. It is
> located in a part of the site that I do not have access to.
Already covered and discussed elsewhere.
Again, you are misrepresenting facts. I didn't state that I hated a page. I
said that I hated the logo. It looked jagged and amateurish.
In hindsight, I should have run that by you, but I had no idea you would get
so emotional over such a trivial matter.
Furthermore, your choice of words is misleading. The page is not located in
*a* part of the site that you do not have access to, it is the *only* page
on the whole site to which you do not have access. The reason for this was
explained in the previous thread.
> failure to communicate in a timely manner. . .
Inaccurate
> failure to respond to my questions. . .
Already addressed above.
> I've been working around *unnecessary* problems for a long time. . .
Again, you have never once raised any of these issues. Not once.
Does it even occur to you that you would not have to work around *imaginary*
problems if you would simply raise issues instead of pretending all is fine?
Who exactly has failed to communicate her issues, letting them fester only
to see them resurface in such a passive aggressive manner?
As I said before, I have forwarded to SOS the necessary information that
will remove the need for my own future involvement.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Susan Bugher
I made a statement of fact. The exaggeration, twisting, turning,
implications, misinterpretation etc. etc. are all on your side.
Genna Reeney
>
> I plead guilty to strong convictions - I *am* always saying things
> should be discussed in ACF and *decided* by newsgroup participants. I
> do believe the group should have *all* the information.
That's self-serving and inaccurate.
You KNOW that you do not always discuss things in the newsgroup.
You KNOW that you don't give the members of the newsgroup all of the
information.
> I see no *way* to discuss the past. . .
> I see no *point* in discussing the past. . .
>
> That's the way it looks from where I'm sitting.
This is a classic "my way or the highway" mentality.
More's the pity.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> Working conditions are difficult.
How so?
You continue to make general statements that are not substantiated by the
facts.
You do not provide specifics of how the current set-up has hindered your
ability to properly maintain the site. It could be argued, given the rather
important increase in content over the past year, that you have, in fact,
NOT been hindered at all.
Furthermore, you cannot argue that working conditions are difficult when you
have not ONCE mentioned anything as an issue.
> IMO private means *private* - I don't feel that door can be opened
> partway. . . Genna has broken the seal of privacy with a flurry of
> accusations. I just posted a response.
Again, I did not repost specifics, but rather general references.
I did so reluctantly, but I did feel it was necessary since you were
misrepresenting facts and leading the members of this group into believing
that your points were factual when they were not.
> IMO the proposed move is not a Big Deal. Genna has chosen to make it a
> Big Deal. I hoped to *avoid* a public blood letting. The situation has
> changed - the bloodshed has started. So be it. Answers will be made.
Excuse me, but the proposed move *is* a big deal. Financial considerations
aside, you initially brought this up under the guise of a dire need due to
my behavior. You made this about me, Susan. This is personal.
Please accept responsibility for your own actions. There was NO need to drag
the newsgroup into this little drama-fest. Twice I tried to address this
with you rationally and privately. You have chosen to make a public issue.
So be it.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Tramp
says...
|I made a statement of fact. The exaggeration, twisting, turning,
|implications, misinterpretation etc. etc. are all on your side.
I think not. Here is the exact post that Genna made.
<8e2yc.1142$Di3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
willowbr...@WATERworldnet.att.net says...
|"Susan Bugher" <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote in message
|news:10cfpg6...@corp.supernews.com...
|>
|> I have limited access to the PL site - that creates problems (I was
|> unable to upload to the site for several days last week).
|
|This is incorrect.
|The only thing you do NOT have access to is the main page for the simple
|reason that it would give you access to the Control Panel which contains my
|financial information.
|
|As for the inability to access the site, I still don't know what the problem
|was, but that was corrected within a couple of days. I don't believe that
|has ever happened before.
|
|I don't appreciate your attempts to present a one-time occurence as a
|systemic problem.
|
|> Lack of access and lack of communication are a *really* bad combination.
|
|Whoa...
|Again, lack of access is not an accurate statement. See above.
|
|I am puzzled as to what you would refer to as lack of communication.
It is perfectly clear that the ONLY place you don't have access is the
control panel.
John Corliss
> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
> "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
My vote is to leave the Pricelessware site where it is. since you
haven't elucidated any reasons for your wanting to move it, I will not
provide any reason for my wanting it to stay where it is.
--
Regards from John Corliss
No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware, demoware,
nagware, shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses
or warez please.
*ProteanThread*
news:fq7j0ck0c4vq$.108lptbxw4ics.dlg@40tude.net...
>
>
> I've lurked here for many years now, had my ears pinned back when I
> inadvertantly mis-spelt Genna as Geena.
> I can remember Genna, SOS, Tiger, John Corlis, all regulars, and all the
> founders of ACF & Pricelessware if memory serves.
those guys are *NOT* acf founders...
> My view, they should decide. I haven't seen or heard of Genna in a long
> while, but if she is still involved then her wishes should be respected.
> Susan, if you are not happy then do a web site of Pricelessware the way
you
> want it, let Genna keep her site the way she wants it then the ACF readers
> can make their own choice which one they go to and/or prefer.
> HTH, but I doubt it will :-)
I've still yet to see specifics as to what brought this on.
--
Woodzy
http://www.rtdos.com (alternate OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (politically charged discussions)
http://rtdos.com/guestbook (submit your links here)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)
http://rtdos.com/chat
retro themed chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
*ProteanThread*
>
> I made a statement of fact. The exaggeration, twisting, turning,
> implications, misinterpretation etc. etc. are all on your side.
>
> Susan
> --
....and acf regulars wonders why I, Andy, Vic, and others have problems with
the so called acf faq.
*ProteanThread*
news:MPG.1b4229456...@news.snet.sbcglobal.net...
If that is true, then Susan would need to look for a host that gives her
access to the control panel. As someone who has his own website (and given
access for publishing to others), I can fully understand why Genna never
gave Susan access to the control panel. That is something that should never
be taken litely. On the other hand, I can see Susan's side because it is
difficult to maintain pages without some access to the control panel. There
should have been some sort of solution a long time ago without resorting to
this.
I, for one, am not going to be like others in the group and blindly support
Susan *OR* Genna until I have all the information since I do not and neither
party is supplying or since neither wishes to divulge such information then
that is EOT for me.
Good Luck to both of you.
Susan Bugher
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
> My vote is to leave the Pricelessware site where it is. since you
> haven't elucidated any reasons for your wanting to move it, I will not
> provide any reason for my wanting it to stay where it is.
It's not necessary for you to provide reasons for your vote.
I did provide the reason I proposed the move: Irreconcilable Differences
When two people don't get along some sort of change in the *situation*
is advisable.
Married couples obtain a "no fault" divorces. I had hoped that something
of the sort could occur here.
I know of no compelling circumstance that prevents the Pricelessware
site from moving. If you or someone else does please post that information.
Why move the Pricelessware site? Why not?
whoise...@kvi.net
Susan Bugher
> John Corliss wrote:
>
>> Susan Bugher wrote:
>>
>> My vote is to leave the Pricelessware site where it is. since you
>> haven't elucidated any reasons for your wanting to move it, I will not
>> provide any reason for my wanting it to stay where it is.
>
>
> It's not necessary for you to provide reasons for your vote.
>
> I did provide the reason I proposed the move: Irreconcilable Differences
>
> When two people don't get along some sort of change in the *situation*
> is advisable.
>
> Married couples obtain a "no fault" divorces. I had hoped that something
> of the sort could occur here.
>
> I know of no compelling circumstance that prevents the Pricelessware
> List from moving. If you or someone else does please post that information.
>
> Why move the Pricelessware List? Why not?
*ProteanThread*
news:TSYBc.115464$Gx4.48534@bgtnsc04->
> Referring to something in general terms is a far cry from reposting an
> e-mail, which includes my e-mail address in a non-spam-proof manner.
>
> I am hereby requesting that you cancel your post.
>
> If you feel the need to recopy the contents of my e-mails, I would request
> that you would have the decency of not subjecting me to further spam. That
> you would recopy it in the first place, and that you would do it in the
> manner in which you do it, says much more about you than I ever could.
Can't help but wonder if that was deliberate considering all the lectures I
and others have recieved from Susan about top posting, copying / pasting
threads, and other neittiquite.
> This is incorrect.
> My response to your e-mail from February was sent on March 4th:
> "Cool.
> We should talk."
>
> No, I *never* said that the June 5th e-mail was my response to your
February
> e-mail. Why would I? Again, you are misrepresenting the facts.
> Yes, I didn't get into further details. There was NO urgency. The 2005 PL
> was more than 8 months away.
> Yes, I didn't respond to the question about the size limit. Yes, I should
> have. I honestly don't remember reading it, so it's possible that it
didn't
> register. Having said that, what prevented you from sending you a
follow-up
> e-mail? If there are failings, you should accept your share of
> responsibility, something you are systematically unwilling to do.
*MAJOR* mis-communcation going on here. Zero points for both parties.
> Already covered and discussed elsewhere.
> Again, you are misrepresenting facts. I didn't state that I hated a page.
I
> said that I hated the logo. It looked jagged and amateurish.
> In hindsight, I should have run that by you, but I had no idea you would
get
> so emotional over such a trivial matter.
> Furthermore, your choice of words is misleading. The page is not located
in
> *a* part of the site that you do not have access to, it is the *only* page
> on the whole site to which you do not have access. The reason for this was
> explained in the previous thread.
I'm sorry, but these are topics that should've have been discussed privately
when Genna first started hosting pricelessware (or even before the website
went on Genna's server). Why now ? Why here ? Zero points for both
parties.
>
> > failure to communicate in a timely manner. . .
>
> Inaccurate
>
> > failure to respond to my questions. . .
>
> Already addressed above.
Agreed. No need to raise the issue more than twice, either publicly and or
privately.
> > I've been working around *unnecessary* problems for a long time. . .
>
> Again, you have never once raised any of these issues. Not once.
> Does it even occur to you that you would not have to work around
*imaginary*
> problems if you would simply raise issues instead of pretending all is
fine?
I still don't get it. Exactly *WHAT* are the bleeping issues here?
> Who exactly has failed to communicate her issues, letting them fester only
> to see them resurface in such a passive aggressive manner?
>
>
> As I said before, I have forwarded to SOS the necessary information that
> will remove the need for my own future involvement.
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Genna
So far nothing has been achieved here.
*ProteanThread*
I concur, why move ?
*ProteanThread*
Ok, Susan *AND* Genna, why not debate this in a real time public chat ?
http://www.rtdos.com/chat enter the room that says freeware
let me know and we can schedule this in real time.
because we're obviously not getting anywhere here.
i'm sorry but its just a suggestion - take it as you wish.
*ProteanThread*
news:10dgo5l...@corp.supernews.com...
> Susan Bugher wrote:
> > Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
> > "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
> > (snip)
>
> My vote is to leave the Pricelessware site where it is. since you
> haven't elucidated any reasons for your wanting to move it, I will not
> provide any reason for my wanting it to stay where it is.
>
> --
> Regards from John Corliss
Enuff said. End of Thread.....
whoise...@kvi.net
Susan Bugher
> This situation is surreal.
>
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>
>> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in
>> the "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of
>> emails.
>
>
>
> I would not say that we have communicated.
>
> I have addressed all of your questions.
> You have continued to ask questions, demanding answers under the
threat of
> shutting down e-mail exchanges, yet you have neither acknowledged my
> responses nor answered my own requests for clarification as to the
nature of
> the problem.
>
>
>> The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working.
>
>
>
> You have not given one example of how the current arrangement was not
> working.
> You have not articulated a logical rationale for the need of a move
to a new
> server.
Hello Genna,
IMO you have rather thoroughly breached the seal of privacy on the email
correspondence and I now am free to respond.
Here is one example of how the current arrangement has been "working".
Below is a copy of an email I sent to Genna on Feb. 24 of this year:
--------------
Subject: Pricelessware Help File
From: Susan Bugher
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:25:40 -0500
To: "Reeney, Genna"
Hi Genna,
FYI - let me and/or the group know if you have any concerns about this.
Karen S created two CHM files of the Pricelessware site. The Subject
heading for the thread about that is: CHM of Pricelessware, here
<q>
If anyone might want it... I've a copy of the Pricelessware.org site
compiled into HTML Help format, for offline reference/reading.
</q>
I uploaded the files to the PL site per a suggestion in the thread. What
is the size limit on the PL site? (The two files total close to 2MB.)
While I'm here . . .
Do you foresee yourself doing the Pricelessware pages in the future?
If you don't plan to return to the fray I'll work on Plan B: some means
of ensuring that maintainance of the site can be continued easily by others.
My long term goal is to work myself out of a job . . .
Susan
--------------
The next email I received from Genna was sent on June 5th.
Genna told me in later emails that this email was her *response* to my
Feb. 29th email.
Here is a copy of that email:
------------
Subject: PL issues
From: "Genna Reeney"
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 18:59:54 -0400
To: "Susan Bugher"
Hi Susan -
Hope your summer is going well.
I wanted to check if you were you have had enough of the stress of manning
the PL.
Just to let you know:
- I changed the logo on the front page. I hated how it looked
- the 2001 May final PL is uploaded http://pricelessware.org/2001/
- the 2000 Feb final PL is uploaded http://pricelessware.org/2000/
- the original PL is uploaded http://pricelessware.org/first/
------------
It's perhaps worth noting a couple of points:
I began a thread on May 30th. Subject: Cumulative Pricelessware List
Genna did not participate in that discussion. I completed the revisions
to the Cumulative Pricelessware List on June 4th.
Genna's post was sent on June 5th.
I do not know if the programs on Genna's pages correspond to the
programs on the Cumulative List. She did not furnish that information
and I have not had time to make a detailed comparison.
The page that Genna "hated" and revised was one of my pages. It is
located in a part of the site that I do not have access to.
IMO all of you should now have *some* idea of why I think it is
necessary to move the Pricelessware List.
failure to communicate in a timely manner. . .
failure to respond to my questions. . .
I've been working around *unnecessary* problems for a long time. . .
IMO it's time to move to a new web site.
Susan
> issue, I was told that I should. That statement should give the
members of
> the newsgroup pause.
>
> If there is a question as to who is really flexing muscle here, I
would like
> to point to these 2 statements:
> "I do not intend to discuss what happened, why it happened, who was
to blame
> etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line. I
would like
> to move the Pricelessware List to a new location."
> "I see no *point* in discussing the past. . ."
>
>
> What is truly sad here is that I have always championed Susan from the
> start. Whenever I had a difference of opinion with her, I addressed it to
> her in private as not to undermine her. I have posted my opinion on a
couple
> of separate occasions, but never have I pressed my point nor left the
> newsgroup in a huff as has been suggested. But I find myself now in the
> bewildering position of having to explain away motivations I do not have.
>
> There is no doubt that Susan has done a tremendous amount of work for the
> PL. While her claims about always discussing and resolving matters in the
> newsgroup are disingenuous, I don't think there are many who could or
would
> find fault with her efforts. But Susan's actions of the past few
weeks leave
> me with a great uneasiness. The members of this newsgroup should
think long
> and hard whether someone who is so inflexible, so closed-minded, so
> manipulative, so deceitful is really the best person to represent the
values
> of the PL.
>
>
bassbag
says...
> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
> "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further exchange of emails.
>
> to work.
>
> blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.
>
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
>
> who, how, where etc. will require discussion.
>
> running at a new location will only take a few hours.
>
> I would like to continue as webmaster. My top priority: ensuring that
> the Pricelessware List can be prepared and maintained easily by others
> when I leave.
>
> I don't like putting the group in the position it's in now - I want to
> ensure that it won't happen again.
>
>
> Susan
>
>
> FYI: I sent Genna an email when I started the "PL issues" thread. I will
> notify her this time too.
>
>
>
that two people who obviously have put a lot of time/talent into making
things work would fall out this way.I guess having so much commitment and
putting so much energy and time into the site can perhaps intensify feelings
etc.From reading the thread and having no affilation to anyone , it seems to
me that the "irreconcilable differences" maybe has grown out of all
proportions.It doesnt seem to me that any malicous intent has been inteneded
by yourself or geena.I would suggest that both of you take a step back and
start talking privatly again rather than ruin a mutual relationship for the
sake of misguided pride.
me
»Q«
I'm just trying to read the thread without missing anything, and the
structure of the thread has become slightly screwy.
--
»Q«
»Q«
»<news:MrQ95109D7F5...@QsFQDN.dyndns.org>:
> Were posts made to this thread today and subsequently cancelled?
>
> I'm just trying to read the thread without missing anything, and
> the structure of the thread has become slightly screwy.
Never mind, I see it now. A private e-mail address was posted
inadvertently; that post was cancelled and replaced by one with the
e-mail obscured. Now that all the posts have propagated to me, the
thread makes much more sense.
--
»Q«
*ProteanThread*
news:MrQ95109D7F5...@QsFQDN.dyndns.org...
no, i've been noticing that a lot lately between my two newservers.
*ProteanThread*
You're lucky, I'm only seeing part of the threads (unless I wait a few hrs
and google this thread, but then it won't even be complete)
dkg_ctc
> Susan Bugher wrote:
>> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly
>> in the "PL issues" thread. Since then we have had a further
>> exchange of emails. (snip)
>
> My vote is to leave the Pricelessware site where it is. since you
> haven't elucidated any reasons for your wanting to move it, I will
> not provide any reason for my wanting it to stay where it is.
I have to agree with John. "Why? Why not?" and "Because I say so"
aren't compelling enough reasons to justify making the change,
especially in the absence of any other actual, concrete reasons.
Alex Balfour
It seems to me that there are only two likely outcomes to this
protracted debate:
1. The web site stays where it is and we lose Susan.
2. The Web site moves and we retain Susan.
Personally I vote for outcome 2.
Alex Balfour
junklee1
> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in the
blame etc. etc. etc. Such a discussion won't change the bottom line.
>
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
>
> The Pricelessware List has been hosted on other sites in the past (IIRC
> the last move was about two years ago). Some free sites have been
> offered. If they are not suitable others can be found. Hosting details -
> who, how, where etc. will require discussion.
> Questions, comments and *votes* (move/stay) please.
>
> Susan
>
>
> FYI: I sent Genna an email when I started the "PL issues" thread. I will
> notify her this time too.
Where to? pricelessware.com? This is reserved. A cynical lurker for a
long time (grateful to).
ysdgm
Henk de Jong
After having read the postings in ACF about the PL issues from both of
you, I have the opinion that 'things' are going a little out of hand
now. I am very sorry and sad to see this happen in here. But I have
still some hope that things can work out, when communication is back to
'normal' again. IMHO argueing in this group doesn't help this process
of getting back to a normal communication. Maybe you should go back to
an email-conversation, if necessary with the help of a mediator, and
after that present a strategy to the group about how to deal with the
PL and where it would be hosted.
I still think that you, as two great women that have both done so many
great things for this group, can work out things in an 'adult'-way and
work together for the benefits of this group.
When you both think that you like to try to communicate again and you
need a mediator, I volunteer for this 'job'.
With kind regards,
--
Henk de Jong
The Netherlands
hmdejong...@hccnet.nl (Remove _NO_SPAM_)
'Links to Freeware'
http://www.linkstofreeware.vze.com/
http://home.hccnet.nl/hmdejong/
Rod
> Dear Genna and Susan,
>
> After having read the postings in ACF about the PL issues from both of
> you, I have the opinion that 'things' are going a little out of hand
> now. I am very sorry and sad to see this happen in here. But I have
> still some hope that things can work out, when communication is back
> to 'normal' again. IMHO argueing in this group doesn't help this
> process of getting back to a normal communication. Maybe you should
> go back to an email-conversation, if necessary with the help of a
> mediator, and after that present a strategy to the group about how to
> deal with the PL and where it would be hosted.
>
> I still think that you, as two great women that have both done so many
> great things for this group, can work out things in an 'adult'-way and
> work together for the benefits of this group.
>
> When you both think that you like to try to communicate again and you
> need a mediator, I volunteer for this 'job'.
>
> With kind regards,
I agree with my fellow cheesehead, discussing the matter in this newsgroup
doesn't seem to help things.
IMHO it's getting annoying. Two grown-ups should be able to sort things out
in a more intimate form of communication, instead of not getting to the
point in a long (very long) public thread on ACF.
Rod
John Fitzsimons
<willowbr...@WATERworldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:46:13 -0400, Susan Bugher <whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
< snip >
>> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
Hi Genna,
Can you help us all out here ?
(1) Go to your site and delete any file of Susan's. She presumably has
copies on her own computer. Or give here 48 hours to make copies if
she needs to. Then delete.
(2) Change your site password.
(3) If Susan wants to go elsewhere then she is free to do so.
At least then you, SOS etc. will no longer need to be involved in this
dopey discussion.
John Fitzsimons
<whoise...@kvi.net> wrote:
< snip >
>I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
So do it. Then maybe we can see an end to this totally pointless
thread.
I suggest everyone "vote" by killfiling this thread.
BoB
Time to 'move' on.
BoB
Olaf Janson
> Genna and I communicated by email - then we communicated publicly in
> emails.
>
> going to work.
That sums it up quite nicely, thank you.
It's not working. It's not going to work.
Genna does nothing more than "pay the bill", which isn't much. And, now,
she's "turned it over" to SOS, who's another paranoid freak.
Susan actually works on the site and keeps it up to date. She's also
added a usability to the site that was never there before.
I'm suspect of Genna's sudden interest in the site. I wonder if Genna
now thinks she might be able to make some money from this site. That is
*pure speculation* on my part, though.
»Q«
<news:2jsbqgF...@uni-berlin.de>:
>> The bottom line? The current arrangement is not working. It's not
>> going to work.
>
> It's not working. It's not going to work.
>
> Genna does nothing more than "pay the bill", which isn't much.
> And, now, she's "turned it over" to SOS, who's another paranoid
> freak.
The PL would not exist without the vision and efforts of SoS.
> Susan actually works on the site and keeps it up to date. She's
> also added a usability to the site that was never there before.
That is true. Given that the current arrangement has been in effect
during the entire time in which she has accomplished that, ISTM that
the current arrangement has been working pretty well.
> I'm suspect of Genna's sudden interest in the site. I wonder if
> Genna now thinks she might be able to make some money from this
> site. That is *pure speculation* on my part, though.
Unfounded, malicious speculation doesn't help much here.
--
»Q«
Semolina Pilchard
wrote:
>Genna does nothing more than "pay the bill", which isn't much. And, now,
>she's "turned it over" to SOS, who's another paranoid freak.
>
>Susan actually works on the site and keeps it up to date. She's also
>added a usability to the site that was never there before.
>
>I'm suspect of Genna's sudden interest in the site. I wonder if Genna
>now thinks she might be able to make some money from this site. That is
>*pure speculation* on my part, though.
Wouldn't *deliberately malicious slander* be a better description?
Go and stick your fingers in the blender. It'll keep you from posting
scurrilous drivel for a while, you witless buffoon.
--
Semolina Pilchard
Susan Bugher
> "Olaf Janson" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in
> <news:2jsbqgF...@uni-berlin.de>:
>>Susan actually works on the site and keeps it up to date. She's
>>also added a usability to the site that was never there before.
>
> That is true. Given that the current arrangement has been in effect
> during the entire time in which she has accomplished that, ISTM that
> the current arrangement has been working pretty well.
SNIP
> Unfounded, malicious speculation doesn't help much here.
Unwarranted conclusions like "ISTM that the current arrangement has been
working pretty well" don't help much either.
I volunteered to do a job. What has been *shown* is my ability to get
the job done.
From my POV I have been doing that job under difficult working
conditions. I have proposed a change in the working conditions. From my
POV that is a reasonable request.
You and others asked for information and reasons. I have furnished some
of the information and some of the reasons. Do you want more?
siDetRaked
<jackru$$el...@notmail.com> wrote:
dopey discussion.
>
>The first post I've seen here that makes any sense at all. Hear,hear.
I agree.
Sietse Fliege
--snip--
> I would like to move the Pricelessware List to a new location.
It seems to me to be preferrable, if possible at all, not to move, for
continuity's sake.
--snip--
> I would like to continue as webmaster.
I would love you to continue as webmaster.
> My top priority: ensuring that the Pricelessware List can be prepared
> and maintained easily by others when I leave.
I trust that you will.
--snip--
I wonder if it is necessary to move, having read Genna's statement:
"I have forwarded to SOS the necessary information that will remove the
need for my own future involvement.".
I can understand that you want *full* controll as the *only* webmaster.
Could it be worked out with SOS that you get sufficient documentation
and exclusive edit rights and full access (or acceptable workarounds)?
If so, would that do?
--
Cheers,
Sietse Fliege
Roger Johansson
> From my POV I have been doing that job under difficult working
> conditions. I have proposed a change in the working conditions. From my
> POV that is a reasonable request.
>
> You and others asked for information and reasons. I have furnished some
> of the information and some of the reasons. Do you want more?
The "difficult working conditions", could you describe that in more
detail?
What you have told us so far is that once when you asked Genna about
space restrictions you got no answer.
She has explained that she missed that question.
Genna's changing of the title page is nothing to complain about, as I
see it, it is a very minor thing, and after all, that is the page she
must handle.
What "difficult working conditions" have hampered your work, _before_
you got upset and the relation to Genna became infected?
--
Roger J.
John Corliss
> John Corliss wrote:
>> Susan Bugher wrote:
>>
>> My vote is to leave the Pricelessware site where it is. since you
>> haven't elucidated any reasons for your wanting to move it, I will not
>> provide any reason for my wanting it to stay where it is.
>
> I did provide the reason I proposed the move: Irreconcilable Differences
> When two people don't get along some sort of change in the *situation*
> is advisable.
> Married couples obtain a "no fault" divorces. I had hoped that something
> of the sort could occur here.
> I know of no compelling circumstance that prevents the Pricelessware
> site from moving. If you or someone else does please post that information.
> Why move the Pricelessware site? Why not?
Susan,
I think what I'm trying to say and what several others would like
to know is specifically what are the "Irreconcilable Differences".
As for there being "no compelling circumstance that prevents the
Pricelessware site from moving", somebody in this thread (I forget who
and don't want to reread everything to find out) pointed out that the
current address, http://priclessware.org, is *very* easy to find.
Having the site at such a location serves the interests of the group
very well.
Perhaps everybody just needs to take a deep breath and start the
discussion (in private if you and Genna like) over again. Bear in mind
that there's no real reason to get upset. You're both on the same team.
Susan, we've had our differences in the past, but I really do admire
your dedication to this group and all of your fine work for it. I
could and do say the same about Genna. Please calm down and try to
work this out.
--
Regards from John Corliss
No adware, cdware, commercial software, crippleware, demoware,
nagware, shareware, spyware, time-limited software, trialware, viruses
or warez please.
Fanman_UK
<os6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<Snipped
>
>Can't help but wonder if that was deliberate considering all the lectures I
>and others have recieved from Susan about top posting, copying / pasting
>threads, and other neittiquite.
>*MAJOR* mis-communcation going on here. Zero points for both parties.
>I'm sorry, but these are topics that should've have been discussed privately
>when Genna first started hosting pricelessware (or even before the website
>went on Genna's server). Why now ? Why here ? Zero points for both
>parties.
>Agreed. No need to raise the issue more than twice, either publicly and or
>privately.
>So far nothing has been achieved here.
Correct. This whole thread has achieved nothing.
It would seem to me that there are problems here on both sides.
I can understand why the main page may be restricted access, I cannot
understand why Genna should modify a public page without first
informing Susan. Who is the Webmaster? The final say for any
alteration should go to the Webmaster, even if the Webmasters' actions
were ultimately constrained by committee (the NG), which in reality
they are not. The Webmaster alone should ultimately control who edits
pages and what format and content they contain.
The host should have a duty toward the Webmaster to provide facility
without let or hinderance providing that there are no financial,
moral, or possibly technical problems over which the host must have
the final say because of potential legal ramifications.
If these guidelines are adhered to there should be no need to move the
site to another host. If either or both parties refuse to abide by
them, then there is clearly a need. With regard to the offending main
page, this can be simply sorted by agreeing a format and including an
auto redirect to a new 'home page' which can be edited by the
Webmaster at will. I do not see any real problems.
If the webmaster both *needs* and *requires* access to the control
panel, then agreement must me made to allow this access. If agreement
cannot be reached privately (possibly with the help of an arbitrator,
as Henk suggested) then a firm decision should be made by the
Webmaster either to stay or move. ( I can guess which it would be) In
this event it would be politic for the Webmaster to draft a
justification for this decision to acf., clearly stating the reasons
for the decision (without the personality clash).
Personally I would prefer to see this "dispute" settled and the PL
stay where it is. The continuation of this dispute in a public forum
will achieve nothing.
Fanman_UK
To reply by email remove the "fanman"
Susan Bugher
That was Q. Having the pricelessware.org *domain* does serve the
interests of the group. I don't know if the domain name will be
available if the site moves to a new location. It will be a PITA if it
is not.
Genna said "I have forwarded to SOS the necessary information that will
remove the need for my own future involvement." I don't know what that
means and to date SOS has not posted.
> Perhaps everybody just needs to take a deep breath and start the
> discussion (in private if you and Genna like) over again. Bear in mind
> that there's no real reason to get upset. You're both on the same team.
>
> Susan, we've had our differences in the past, but I really do admire
> your dedication to this group and all of your fine work for it. I could
> and do say the same about Genna. Please calm down and try to work this out.
Thank you for the kind words. :) They are *much* appreciated.
There's been almost a month of discussion. There's been no progress.
Genna had this to say about me in her first appearance in this thread:
"The members of this newsgroup should think long and hard whether
someone who is so inflexible, so closed-minded, so manipulative, so
deceitful is really the best person to represent the values of the PL."
John - this is *not* a good relationship. I want out.
There are "Irreconcilable Differences". Genna and I are *not* on the
same team. IMO posting more of the email exchange will make a bad
situation worse.
I'm asking you to judge me by what you know of me. I did not make this
request lightly.
Phred
<AXYBc.115486$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Genna Reeney" <willowbr...@WATERworldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Susan Bugher wrote:
>>
>> I plead guilty to strong convictions - I *am* always saying things
>> should be discussed in ACF and *decided* by newsgroup participants. I
>> do believe the group should have *all* the information.
>
>That's self-serving and inaccurate.
>You KNOW that you do not always discuss things in the newsgroup.
>You KNOW that you don't give the members of the newsgroup all of the
>information.
[...]
Oh dear! And people are trying to convince us all that if we only let
women have more say in running the world, all would be sweetness and
light. ;-)
Cheers, Phred.
--
ppnerk...@THISyahoo.com.INVALID
Susan Bugher
> What you have told us so far is that once when you asked Genna about
> space restrictions you got no answer.
> She has explained that she missed that question.
Roger,
I read her "explanation".
I question the validity of the "explanation".
IOW - don't believe everything you read. . .
*ProteanThread*
>
> That was Q. Having the pricelessware.org *domain* does serve the
> interests of the group. I don't know if the domain name will be
> available if the site moves to a new location. It will be a PITA if it
> is not.
>
> Genna said "I have forwarded to SOS the necessary information that will
> remove the need for my own future involvement." I don't know what that
> means and to date SOS has not posted.
>
>
> There's been almost a month of discussion. There's been no progress.
>
> Genna had this to say about me in her first appearance in this thread:
>
> "The members of this newsgroup should think long and hard whether
> someone who is so inflexible, so closed-minded, so manipulative, so
> deceitful is really the best person to represent the values of the PL."
>
> John - this is *not* a good relationship. I want out.
>
> There are "Irreconcilable Differences". Genna and I are *not* on the
> same team. IMO posting more of the email exchange will make a bad
> situation worse.
>
> I'm asking you to judge me by what you know of me. I did not make this
> request lightly.
>
> Susan
> --
> Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org
> PL2004 CD http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/CD2004PL.htm
> alt.comp.freeware FAQ: http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq.html
>
>
I still don't get it. So far all I've seen is a bad cat fight thats not
getting anywhere. I have a lot of respect for Susan and Genna both, but
this thread is absolutely pointless.
--
Woodzy
http://www.rtdos.com (alt OS for games based on the classics)
http://rtdos.com/debate (charged political discussion)
http://rtdos.com/forum (rtdos message boards)
http://rtdos.com/rtdos (rtdos active developer chat)
http://rtdos.com/chat
Chats scheduled every Thursday @ 7PM MDT (0100 GMT) and
Iain Cheyne
@corp.supernews.com:
> Susan, we've had our differences in the past, but I really do admire
> your dedication to this group and all of your fine work for it. I
> could and do say the same about Genna. Please calm down and try to
> work this out.
I'll certainly echo this sentiment. Who would have thought that the person
with the most sensible thing to say was John Corliss? :oP <ducks>
--
Iain Cheyne
Rod
> Roger Johansson wrote:
>
> > What you have told us so far is that once when you asked Genna
> about
>> space restrictions you got no answer.
>> She has explained that she missed that question.
>
> Roger,
>
> I read her "explanation".
> I question the validity of the "explanation".
> IOW - don't believe everything you read. . .
>
> Susan
We have to believe what we read, because you're both not giving us all the
information to understand this endless thread. With respect for both of you
and for the Pricelessware site, IMHO it's kind of weak to use quotation
marks as you haven't explained much either about the subject of this thread.
Ladies, what's going on ? Give us something to read that we can believe and
that isn't vague, or please take this somewhere else.
Rod
News
news:10dj0rl...@corp.supernews.com...
> I'm asking you to judge me by what you know of me. I did not make this
> request lightly.
but what about those of us who don't know either of you? This is a
public forum were many many people rarely if ever post. They just come
along see something interesting or post a request, get a reply and go. I
am one of those people and this argument comes across as a storm in a
teacup. Two people at loggerheads over something *seemingly* petty. You
keep saying there are irreconcilable differences. Gemma has asked what
they are and I think quite a few people would be interested in that
answer especially as you have not really given a direct answer. Perhaps
Gemma knows what they are and isn't letting on. I don't know as I don't
know either of you, other than the connection with PL. Were you friends
at one point?
However you both *should* be able to work this out. Go back to email or
phone or chat. Have an open, frank discussion with each other. Lay out
what each sees as the problem. Stay calm. If it's not black and white
see if a compromise can be reached. Breathe. If it means apologising to
each other, do it, you are both mature people. If it means the site
still has to move so be it but if that is the case it would be a shame if
it left what appears to have been a good working relationship (at one
point) or friendship, in tatters.
Cruising Chrissy
>Irreconcilable differences can usually only be resolved by divorce.
Or death.
Cruising Chrissy
wrote:
>Oh dear! And people are trying to convince us all that if we only let
>women have more say in running the world, all would be sweetness and
>light. ;-)
I guess you have never seen The View.
Genna Reeney
>
> At least then you, SOS etc. will no longer need to be involved in this
> dopey discussion.
The fact is that no one should have had to be involved in this dopey
discussion.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> There's been almost a month of discussion. There's been no progress.
Once again, you misrepresent the facts, Susan.
Discussion implies that you have been articulated your needs and
requirements. You never did.
The only concrete request you made was in this newsgroup and that was to
move the server.
How could there have been progress when you not once got down to your
specific requirements?
> Genna had this to say about me in her first appearance in this thread:
>
> "The members of this newsgroup should think long and hard whether
> someone who is so inflexible, so closed-minded, so manipulative, so
> deceitful is really the best person to represent the values of the
> PL."
>
> John - this is *not* a good relationship. I want out.
From the onset of this situation, YOU have acted in bad faith.
From the onset of this situation, YOU have been unwilling to discuss any
specifics that could have brought a quick resolution without the need for
DramaFest Summer 2004.
From the onset of this situation, YOU have insinuated unethical behavior on
my part (all the while cushioning it in back-handed compliments)
From the onset of this situation, YOU have misrepresented the facts to this
newsgroup.
Accept responsibility for your part in the mess of it all, Susan.
YOU are not a victim.
> There are "Irreconcilable Differences". Genna and I are *not* on the
> same team. IMO posting more of the email exchange will make a bad
> situation worse.
>
> I'm asking you to judge me by what you know of me. I did not make this
> request lightly.
No one asked you to post the e-mail exchange.
You were asked time and again, including by me from the very start of this
situation and by the members of this group since you have brought up this
problem, as to what has not been working for you. You were unable to do so.
You were asked how a move would resolve those issues. You never managed to
articulate a logical argument as to why this move was necessary.
You say that the working situation was difficult.
How interesting that in that very time-frame, the PL has seen its most
prolific growth in content.
How interesting that in that very time-frame, the grand total of issues you
raised about the unsuitably of the current framework was .... zero.
Rewriting history does not make it so.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> Genna does nothing more than "pay the bill", which isn't much. And,
> now, she's "turned it over" to SOS, who's another paranoid freak.
>
> Susan actually works on the site and keeps it up to date. She's also
> added a usability to the site that was never there before.
>
> I'm suspect of Genna's sudden interest in the site. I wonder if Genna
> now thinks she might be able to make some money from this site. That
> is
> *pure speculation* on my part, though.
I was wrong.
Now, the thread is surreal.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> From my POV I have been doing that job under difficult working
> conditions. I have proposed a change in the working conditions. From
> my POV that is a reasonable request.
>
> You and others asked for information and reasons. I have furnished
> some of the information and some of the reasons. Do you want more?
I would just like to specify something, for historical context.
When *I* first asked Susan to help with the PL, she would send me the
revised versions of the PL and I would then upload them to the server. In
order to facilitate the process, *I* gave her FTP access so that she would
be able to manage it without needing to go through me.
I also had said to her from the start that she should tell me what she
needed.
Now Susan wants us to believe that she has been laboring under an unworkable
situation. Not one concrete example yet to back up this claim. Not once
before this incident has Susan ever suggested that she needed a different
set-up or that the current one was unsatisfactory. Not ONCE.
Furthermore, and much more telling, why is it then that the first time I
hear about the current system not working properly is on a public post to
this group requesting a move to a different server?
Finally, despite several requests by members of this group, Susan has yet to
explain what functionality a change in servers will provide to her.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> Ladies, what's going on ?
You got me.
This whole experience is a trip through the twilight zone.
--
Cheers,
Genna
Genna Reeney
>
> I read her "explanation".
> I question the validity of the "explanation".
> IOW - don't believe everything you read. . .
Right, because I am the one who has been continuously misrepresenting the
facts to this newsgroup.
--
Cheers,
Genna
siDetRaked
<news-groups(all_0f_th1s)@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>but what about those of us who don't know either of you? This is a
>public forum were many many people rarely if ever post. They just come
>along see something interesting or post a request, get a reply and go. I
>am one of those people and this argument comes across as a storm in a
>teacup. Two people at loggerheads over something *seemingly* petty.
Amen. After reading endless posts in this thread the conclusion I
come to is ... Susan has a bee in her bonnet because she does not have
complete control over the website so she wants to take her ball and
play somewhere else. Enough of this. I have to killfile this
subject.
siDetRaked