Re: Experiment removing brown toilet bowl stains with various acids

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:34:02 -0700 Oren wrote:
> What software are you using to make these composite photos?
> http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12671632/img/12671632.png
> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12671545/img/12671545.jpg

Oren,

I got carried away in the prior reply; so I'll directly answer.
I used a combination of Imagemagick & Kolourpaint on Linux
to create the DIY montages above.

1. Imagemagick to resize the photos to similar sizes.
2. Imagemagick to slap similar-sized photos together.
3. Kolourpaint to hand craft the more complex arrangements.
4. And, Kolorpaint to text, circle, & arrow the results.

Had I been on Windows, I would have used:
1. Irfanview to resize the photos to similar sizes.
2. Irfanview to slap similar-sized photos together.
3. Paint.NET to make the more complex arrangements.
4. And, Paint.NET to text, circle, & arrow the results.

IMHO, there is no single freeware program on either platform,
which will perform all the tasks necessary to assemble and
annotate a typical task-oriented photo scenario such as is
shown in the better amateur do-it-yourself (DIY) project
writeups.

PS: I'm not sure what the difference is between a collage
and a montage, so, I used the word "montage" to indicate
an assemblage of photos & screenshots intended to help in
explaining how to do something, in a single resulting image.

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

I shoudl have said I'm a Paint.net fan.

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:11:21 -0400 dadiOH wrote:

>> MS Paint & IrfanView
>
> Here's an example:
> http://www.floridaloghouse.net/photos.htm
>
> Everything within the brown border is one image made as I explained above.
> Text is via IrfanView.

Agreed. That is a stellar presentation. Very nice.

I've used both MS Paint & IrfanView on Windows; but, I must suggest
that everyone try texting and arrowing with Paint.NET before you
conclude anything about any other program. Circle drawing is just
OK with Paint.NET.

Those three things are really what decides what freeware is "best"
for basic editing of DIY-style screenshots & photos:
- Texting (there should never be a need to draw a box!)
- Arrows (they should be drawn in a single point-&-click sequence!)
- Circles (they should be easy to point-and-click create)

Given those three extremely common requirements, it's sad (and
surprising), that almost all freeware editing programs fall flat
on their faces, when it comes to these three simple tasks.

You'll NEVER find another program that does curved arrows better
and easier than does Paint.NET (whether solid or dashed) - and - you'll
also find that the texting in MS Paint is exactly like it should be
(i.e., no need to estimate the size & shape to sweep out a box!).
The drawing of circles is pretty easy but nothing special.

Unfortunately, the best I could find on Linux for the same extremely
common tasks are atrocious in comparison. In Kolourpaint, you have
to estimate & sweep out a box to text; and in Kolourpaint you have
to manually draw the arrows, then curve then, then create your own
arrowheads from scratch ... and ... you can just forget about making
dashed arrows. As with Paint.NET on Windows, Kolourpaint on Linux
drawing of circles is pretty easy but nothing special.

As always, if there WAS a freeware editing program that did all three
of those extremely common tasks well, that would be the program I'd
consider best - and certainly - it would be the program I'd use
and recommend.

[Danny D.]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:57:32 -0700 hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> I shoudl have said I'm a Paint.net fan.

Personally, I'd use ANY freeware that easily annotates DIY-style
photo assemblages.

When I was on Windows, I first nearly died and went to heaven
when I found out how FAST IrfanView was, and, how capable it
was with batch renaming-by-exif and auto-rotation-by-exif.
Nothing, even today, crops as easily as IrfanView.

But, IrfanView stinks to high heaven when it comes to drawing
curved solid or dashed arrows; and it's just OK for drawing
circles and for texting (because you have to estimate text size
before you've even composed your thoughts).

Then, I found out about Paint.NET, and again, nearly died and
went to heaven. The drawing of curved solid or dashed arrows is
phenomenally easy in Paint.NET. Likewise, texting doesn't require
a crystal ball, and drawing of circles and boxes around things is
just ok.

The worst thing I can say about Paint.NET is the slowness of
starting the thing up (nothing compares to IrfanView for that!);
and the PITA need for the NET Framework in the later versions.

Even with those two drawbacks, to this day, I've never found anything
better than Paint.NET for annotating standard DIY-style photos;
however, I've long since moved on to Linux, so, I had to start
all over again.

Surveying all Linux programs, the ONLY freeware that easily texts,
draws arrows, and draws boxes & circles on Linux is Kolourpaint.
However, Kolourpaint drawing of curved arrows is purely a manual
multi-part affair - so Kolourpaint has none of the ease-of-use
of Paint.NET.

And, Kolourpaint requires you to be omnipotent and know ahead of
time the size and shape of your text. Of course, you can resize
the text box both before and after the fact, but, there are very
few programs that actually implement either texting, box drawing,
or arrowing correctly.

IMHO, the correct (easiest) way to add text:
- You left click, and start typing (that's it!)
- You should NOT need to draw or resize any stinkin' text boxes!
- You can change the default fonts, colors, etc., separately.

IMHO, the correct (easiest) way to add arrows:
- You left click point1, and left click point 2, and that's it!
- You can change the default direction, thickness, dashes, etc.

IMHO, the correct (easiest) way to add boxes:
- You left click point1 and left click point2, and that's it!
- You can change the default filling, thickness, dashes, etc.

[Oren]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:11:30 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>Had I been on Windows, I would have used:
>1. Irfanview to resize the photos to similar sizes.
>2. Irfanview to slap similar-sized photos together.
>3. Paint.NET to make the more complex arrangements.
>4. And, Paint.NET to text, circle, & arrow the results.

I run Winders fer Rednecks v.7.

Thanks. I'll dig up these tools.

(results from my first ever electrolysis tank for de-rusting tools and
cast iron...)

Nate made me do it...

[dadiOH]

Danny D. wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:11:21 -0400 dadiOH wrote:
>
>>> MS Paint & IrfanView
>>
>> Here's an example:
>> http://www.floridaloghouse.net/photos.htm
>>
>> Everything within the brown border is one image made as I explained
>> above. Text is via IrfanView.
>
> Agreed. That is a stellar presentation. Very nice.

Thanks.
____________

> I've used both MS Paint & IrfanView on Windows; but, I must suggest
> that everyone try texting and arrowing with Paint.NET before you
> conclude anything about any other program. Circle drawing is just
> OK with Paint.NET.

I did d/l it a day or two ago and look forward to trying it.
______________

> Those three things are really what decides what freeware is "best"
> for basic editing of DIY-style screenshots & photos:
> - Texting (there should never be a need to draw a box!)

I find the box useful inasmuch as I can then center words and lines within a
given area.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Oren]

On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:11:30 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>Had I been on Windows, I would have used:
>1. Irfanview to resize the photos to similar sizes.
>2. Irfanview to slap similar-sized photos together.
>3. Paint.NET to make the more complex arrangements.
>4. And, Paint.NET to text, circle, & arrow the results.

Put both on today and messed around. I'll figure out the text (where
I want to place it).

For the most part I'm on the trail for composites for DIY.

Thanks Danny. Nice App's...

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:01:13 -0700 Oren wrote:

> For the most part I'm on the trail for composites for DIY.

You might like the panorama command in Irfanview:
http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Panorama-Image-Using-IrfanView

[Oren]

Thanks. I've been there already....an easy way to put 3-4 photos side
by side - iirc.

Adding text is what I need to figure out. I played with it so I will
eventually get to it. I thought to just add a new layer with text
only?

[dadiOH]

In Irfanview? Draw a box then Ctrl + T

[Robert Macy]

my workaround for text is to open with irfanview and save as .bmp
open in PAINT and add text, marks, etc save.
open again in Irfanview and save as .jpg

It's a workaround.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 10:55:04 -0700 Oren wrote:

> Adding text is what I need to figure out. I played with it so I will
> eventually get to it. I thought to just add a new layer with text
> only?

I would NOT add text with Irfanview. Use Paint.NET.
Muuuuuch easier & more intuitive.

[Poutnik]

Danny D. posted Sat, 20 Apr 2013 11:58:17 +0000 (UTC)

To defend IV,
it is rather viewer with added simple editing capabilities.

--
Poutnik

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 14:08:39 +0200 Poutnik wrote:

>> I would NOT add text with Irfanview. Use Paint.NET.
>> Muuuuuch easier & more intuitive.
>
> To defend IV,
> it is rather viewer with added simple editing capabilities.

I do agree that IrfanView is absolutely fantastic as the best
picture "viewer" on the PC, bar none. Mainly it's fast. Really
really really fast. Twice as fast as most programs, and ten
times faster than a lot of them.

Even though IrfanView is only a "viewer", we all know IV also
does CROPPING wonderfully (click, click, crop). It converts
to various formats nicely (e.g., JPEG -> GIF); and IrfanView
is great with batch renamin and resizing operations (which
aren't so easy on the Windows operating system elsewise).

However, when it comes to TEXTING, drawing CIRCLES, and
especially curved ARROWs, IrfanView stinks. For that,
I'd suggest Paint.NET ...

The funny thing is that TEXTING is done wrong on almost
all picture editing programs in that they force you to
choose the area BEFORE you type a single character!

What's inexplicable about that is there is no need for
that. With Paint.NET, you simply type. No need to choose
any area whatsoever.

Likewise, arrows are almost atrocious how they're handled
on most picture-editing programs. With most, all you can do
is manually draw a curve and then manually draw an arrowhead
and you can just about forget doing dashed lines.

With Paint.NET, it's all done for you. You just draw the
arrow point 1, and then point 2, and it's done for you.
(You've pre-selected the type of arrow, direction,
arrowhead, dashes, color, etc., as the default.)

On the other hand, drawing circles and boxes around things
is relatively easy in most programs, but heaven forbid
trying to do it in something powerful like The Gimp. You'll
go crazy. Sure, it 'can' be done; but you'd die trying.

Irfanview isn't too bad with drawing circles, but, since
you NEED paint.net for the arrows and text, you may as
well draw the circles there.

In summary, IrfanView is a fantastic picture-viewing program,
which is fast and simple and powerful ... but it stinks for
the basic annotation of DIY-style photos. For for that,
Paint.NET is the best (although others will work too).

Note: This is all on Windows. For Linux, the corresponding
best DIY-photo editing program is the combination of
ImageMagick for batch operations, and Kolourpaint for the
manual texting, arrowing, and circling of objects.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:12:17 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

> However, when it comes to TEXTING, drawing CIRCLES, and
> especially curved ARROWs, IrfanView stinks.

For the record, today I needed to reproduce a firefox bug
on both WinXP and on Linux, so, I created essentially the
same screenshot on each platform:

Windows:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12745022/img/12745022.gif
Linux:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12745771/img/12745771.png

OBSERVATION:
I haven't been on Windows for a while, so, I had forgotten what
a fantastic dream Paint.net was in terms of usability (as compared
to what exists on Linux) in performing the three basic screenshot
annotation tasks of:
(a) texting (you just click & type ... that's it!)
(b) circling (you just click & sweep ... that's it!)
(c) arrowing (you just click & click ... that's it!)

In comparison the critical annotation triad on Linux was kludgey
at best.
(a) texting (you have to pre-select the text area ... yuck)
(b) circling (you just click and sweep ... so this is good)
(c) arrowing (all manual ... especially dashes, curves & heads)

Note: It's amazing that, on Linux, there isn't a single decent
freeware program for these three simple tasks that even comes
close to comparing to what exists on Windows - and - on Windows,
it's amazing that only one program does all three tasks correctly
(i.e., efficiently).

[Alan Browne]

Please stop x-posting your adventures to rec.photo.digital. At worst
take this to a graphics/design NG. But it really has no place here.


--
"A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
-Pierre Berton