Download from Hulu
Bear Bottoms
I have tested this and while the download slow, it does work well and the
interface of the program is very nice. Use the 'visit Hulu' button in the
built-in browser to navigate to the movie you wish to download. Once the
download starts, you do not have to continue watching the movie. Find the
file easily by length and it usually starts with hulu plus a recognizable
name. It downloads as one file without the ads.
I couldn't fast forward the video, but found out it is because Hulu does
not include keyframe objects. You can use flvmdi
http://www.buraks.com/flvmdi/ to inject metadata and include keyframe
objects which enables you to fast forward the video. This worked well in
KMPlayer and GOM.
When Hulu changes/tweaks their encryption, this program will have to keep
up to continue being able to download the flv. For now, it works.
http://www.streamtransport.com/
--
Bear Bottoms
Owner of Freeware website: http://bearware.info
za kAT
> I have tested this
I am behind Bear Bottoms 100% and I do not believe he ran drugs and
guns.
Pooh on the rest of ACF.
--
za...@pooh.the.cat - www.zakATsKopterChat.com
Lewlew
"za kAT" <za...@super-secret-IPaddress.invalid> wrote in message
news:4b9c0e45$1...@news.x-privat.org...
You are "behind" Bear?
Better than the alternative I suppose:)
Lew
za kAT
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:16:36 GMT, Bear Bottoms wrote:
>
>> I have tested this
>
> I am behind Bear Bottoms 100% and I do not believe he ran drugs and
> guns.
You'd be an even dumber fuck if you did Ari. You haven't a shred of
evidence have you?
> Pooh on the rest of ACF.
Yeah you do Ari. Get a life.
Dave
> StreamTransport is a program that can download encrypted video from
> Hulu. I have tested this ....
<snip paraphrasing of article at Freeware Genius >
> http://www.streamtransport.com/
http://www.freewaregenius.com/ for the article from the person who
actually tested the software and wrote the piece.
Original:
"it is quite possible that the Hulu encryption might be tweaked or
changed at some point and would require StreamTransport to be updated to
keep pace, but at least at the time of this writing it is working."
BBBullshit:
When Hulu changes/tweaks their encryption, this program will have to keep
up to continue being able to download the flv. For now, it works.
...pathetic..
Dave
--
Registered Linux user # 444770
za kAT
Another poster who denigrates Bear Bottoms, I bet a pint that you
believe he ran drugs too.
...pathetic...
Pooh says you stink.
--
za...@pooh.the.cat - www.zakATsKopterChat.com
VanguardLH
Alas, their downloader gets confused by the ads interjections. Yeah, it'll
download the first ad movie but not the following real movie. I installed
StreamTransport (inside a virtual machine running Windows XP Pro SP-3). I
then went to Hulu and found a movie. I entered the URL for that Hulu page
into the top untitled field in StreamTransport (which presumably is the URL
of the page where it is supposed to start recording). It captured the first
ad movie. That was it. It did NOT capture the real movie.
Try it yourself. After installing StreamTransport, in the top input field
in its UI, enter the following URL (Star Trek VII: Generations, available
for a limited time):
http://www.hulu.com/watch/128305/star-trek-vii-generations?c=Science-Fiction
Can you get StreamTransport to record the movie after the first ad? Even it
you could, what happens when Hulu interjects their next ad movie? Hulu
isn't about showing ad-free movies. They use those ads to support their
service. It's like watching television but on your computer monitor: you
get the ads.
Okay, I later figured out what StreamTransport was showing. It wasn't
downloading anything. Its lower panel shows what it detects as stream
sources; i.e., the URLs to whatever streamed content it discovers. I have
to select a stream and then click the Download button to actually get it.
So I clicked on the "Star Trek" movie stream. A separate download dialog
appears showing the progress of the download (i.e., capture). Nope, an
error occurs. When I click on the errored download, a log is displayed of
what happened, which was:
DownLoad: Thread create.
DownLoad:
URL:rtmpe://96.17.77.21:1935/ondemand?_fcs_vhost=cp47346.edgefcs.net&auth=daEc0bXa.csbsaTcPdaaLc3b.dFd1cTaDav-blNa43-c0-YoOBtEvZIxr&aifp=sll02152008&slist=hulufms3/47311/567/50033567/HuluTranscode_143570_374310_373119_16x9_24fps_H264_650K.flv;.international=false&sessionid=CA35BF39236E08CFDB0FA0DBA5610668.
DownLoad: File name change to "<myprofilepath>\My
Documents\StreamTransport\Hulu - Star Trek VII Generations - Watch the full
feature film now..flv".
DownLoad: Create file "<myprofilepath>\My Documents\StreamTransport\Hulu -
Star Trek VII Generations - Watch the full feature film now..flv" successed.
DownLoad: Task failed.
DownLoad: Failed to connect to the server. The result is <NAMED_MAP name=""
typename="">
<STR name="code">NetConnection.Connect.Rejected</STR>
<STR name="description">[ AccessManager.Reject ] : Access denied!</STR>
<STR name="level">error</STR>
</NAMED_MAP>.
DownLoad: Task retry 1.
DownLoad: File name change to "<myprofilepath>\My
Documents\StreamTransport\Hulu - Star Trek VII Generations - Watch the full
feature film now..flv".
DownLoad: Create file "<myprofilepath>\My Documents\StreamTransport\Hulu -
Star Trek VII Generations - Watch the full feature film now..flv" successed.
DownLoad: Task failed.
DownLoad: Failed to connect to the server. The result is <NAMED_MAP name=""
typename="">
<STR name="code">NetConnection.Connect.Rejected</STR>
<STR name="description">[ AccessManager.Reject ] : Access denied!</STR>
<STR name="level">error</STR>
</NAMED_MAP>.
Successed? Obviously they still need some native English speaking
translators for their comment strings. They are trying to pipe the stream
into a file (which, according to their log, has 2 adjacent period characters
in the filename). They fail on trying to connect to the stream source
("failed to connect to the server").
Well, so much for that trial. Looks like it still needs work.
Bear Bottoms
news:1299$4b9c150a$4831158c$23...@FUSE.NET:
> http://www.freewaregenius.com/ for the article from the person who
> actually tested the software and wrote the piece.
>
> Original:
> "it is quite possible that the Hulu encryption might be tweaked or
> changed at some point and would require StreamTransport to be updated
> to keep pace, but at least at the time of this writing it is working."
>
> BBBullshit:
> When Hulu changes/tweaks their encryption, this program will have to
> keep up to continue being able to download the flv. For now, it works.
>
>
That isn't where I found the article...it was:
http://blog-soft.net/streamtransport-download-videos-from-hulu-as-well-
as-other-encrypted-or-unencrypted-media-sites/
Although I downloaded and tested the software myself, because I've had
difficulty with downloading Hulu. This software works very well. After
trying the software, I phrased my own.
Bear Bottoms
> Well, so much for that trial. Looks like it still needs work.
I've downloaded four movies with it already and did not experience any of
what you relate. On my second try, I did induce a fault by not following
the process fully...so I cleared the location data in the bottom pane,
went back and started again and it worked flawlessly. As long as I follow
a complete process, it works very well. It is slow though...couple of
hours to download a movie. But it does work beautifully. Maybe your VM
had something to do with your issues.
Bear Bottoms
news:Xns9D3AAE38EBA7Eb...@69.16.185.250:
I have to phrase my own for my website because such a lengthy article
doesn't fit well in my span descriptions on my site. Usually, when I
recommend a program and put it on my site, I will also post my
description here which was the case with this post. Sometimes, I don't
recommend a program yet, and post an entire article or parts of an
article with links to it in order to see what reaction to the program
people have here. If you don't like that...so what.
Dave
>>
> http://www.freewaregenius.com/ for the article from the person who
> actually tested the software and wrote the piece
>>
> http://blog-soft.net/streamtransport-download-videos-from-hulu-as-well-
> as-other-encrypted-or-unencrypted-media-sites/
>
> Although I downloaded and tested the software myself, because I've had
> difficulty with downloading Hulu. This software works very well. After
> trying the software, I phrased my own.
That isn't where I copied from,here is where I copied from.The two are
the exact same article.One of them must have beat you to the copying.
Dave
>>
> I have to phrase my own for my website because such a lengthy article
> doesn't fit well in my span descriptions on my site. Usually, when I
> recommend a program and put it on my site, I will also post my
> description here which was the case with this post. Sometimes, I don't
> recommend a program yet, and post an entire article or parts of an
> article with links to it in order to see what reaction to the program
> people have here. If you don't like that...so what.
Easy to tell when you use other people's work and words,it actually makes
sense.
Bear Bottoms
news:400e$4b9c1fd1$4831158c$59...@FUSE.NET:
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:07:36 +0000, Bear Bottoms wrote:
>>>
>> http://www.freewaregenius.com/ for the article from the person who
>> actually tested the software and wrote the piece
>>>
>> That isn't where I found the article...it was:
>> http://blog-soft.net/streamtransport-download-videos-from-hulu-as-well
>> - as-other-encrypted-or-unencrypted-media-sites/
>>
>> Although I downloaded and tested the software myself, because I've
>> had difficulty with downloading Hulu. This software works very well.
>> After trying the software, I phrased my own.
>
>
> That isn't where I copied from,here is where I copied from.The two are
> the exact same article.One of them must have beat you to the copying.
>
> Dave
>
>
Your words indicate you feel a bit foolish, though your hate tries to
obscure it. Only you can help yourself.
Bear Bottoms
news:52322$4b9c22cb$4831158c$59...@FUSE.NET:
Hey, some peeps have been looking for a good Hulu downloader. Why didn't
you post about it?
za kAT
> though your hate
Ever consider you shoulder some responsibility here?
VanguardLH
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in news:hnh5i8$elj$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Bear Bottoms wrote:
>>
>>> StreamTransport is a program that can download encrypted video from
>>> Hulu.
>>>
>>> http://www.streamtransport.com/
>>
>> After installing StreamTransport, in the top input
>> field in its UI, enter the following URL (Star Trek VII: Generations,
>> available for a limited time):
>>
>> http://www.hulu.com/watch/128305/star-trek-vii-generations?c=Science-Fiction
>>
>> Can you get StreamTransport to record the movie after the first ad?
>
> I've downloaded four movies with it already and did not experience any of
> what you relate. On my second try, I did induce a fault by not following
> the process fully...so I cleared the location data in the bottom pane,
> went back and started again and it worked flawlessly. As long as I follow
> a complete process, it works very well. It is slow though...couple of
> hours to download a movie. But it does work beautifully. Maybe your VM
> had something to do with your issues.
I doubt the VM had anything to do with disrupting or preventing the
connection with the Flash server. A test with Replay Media Catcher (RMC)
works but only to get the first stream which is an ad - because it doesn't
use RTMPE (encrypted RTMP). Some videos mistakeningly are configured at the
server to provide both RTMP and RTMPE streams and why video capturers still
work for that video because they use RTMP although the URL to the video says
to use RTMPE. RMC decided to discontinue support for RTMPE (wrongly because
it is NOT specifically a DRM protocol as expressed by Adobe but can be used
that way, and most stream sources that use RTMPE are trying to control
distribution of their content). All it takes is a change on the server
regarding the authentication procedure to change the encryption and the
capture software won't work anymore.
Did you actually try download the video that *I* mentioned using your setup
of StreamTransport? For all we know, the movies you captured using this
product used RTMP instead of RTMPE, had both streams available (so your
capture used RTMP), or used RSTP instead of RTMP[E]. Yeah, my test might've
worked if I tested using the video you used. That would do nothing to show
if your setup would work with the video in *my* test. See what happens with
the video that I mentioned.
Your response reminds me of when I reported a defect in behavior of a
program being alpha tested. The programmers response was that it works okay
on his host. So I told him to shut down his host and drop it off at
Shipping to send to the customer. It is irrelevant that it works on his
host when someone is reporting that it is not working on their host. Turned
out he had an SDK installed on his host that included a library that
provided the method that caused the error in my "customer" hardware
platform. So test with the video that I specified to see if you can also
download that one. You know the 4 movies you tried worked okay to get
captured. You don't know yet if you can capture THIS video.
Bear Bottoms
> Your response reminds me of when I reported a defect in behavior of a
> program being alpha tested. The programmers response was that it
> works okay on his host. So I told him to shut down his host and drop
> it off at Shipping to send to the customer. It is irrelevant that it
> works on his host when someone is reporting that it is not working on
> their host.
Your response reminds me of someone having an issue, and jumping to the gun
that everyone will have that same issue except for maybe a few and it could
have nothing at all to do with your own setup. Your setup has an issue.
Your link to Star Trek VII generations is downloading and playing fine. I
simply searched Hulu for it, played the movie, it immediately showed up in
the file pane and I started downloading it. While it is downloading, I am
playing it in VLC as we speak.
Title: Hulu-Star Trek VII Generations-watch the full feature film now.
URL: rtmpe://98.174.30.118:1935/ondemand?_fcs_vhost=cp47346.....
Duration: 1:57:54.024 640x360
This program is by far the best I've used for this type of download. I
highly recommend it.
Lewlew
"za kAT" <za...@super-secret-IPaddress.invalid> wrote in message
No he/her/it never considers that the fault my lie within.
Lew
PS
Maybe we should start a fund to help pay for the hospitalization that Bear B
Doll needs in order to overcome his severe emotional illness.
This is a serious matter. I believe that he has a severe personality
disorder mixed with paranoia. He may even be suffering from severe
psychosis.
In a conversation with his wife I was told that he is so ill that he doesnt
even talk back to Bill O'Reilly while watching TV.
Lew (not a member of the Bear B Doll Cult)
VanguardLH
I never claimed that EVERYONE would encounter the same failure as I
experienced. I said that I tested the product that you were touting and
discovered a failure. I was willing to test your success cases but that
would not have proved if the other video would fail. I was looking for
cases of failure, not success, to determine how useful was the product.
A theory is just that until just one instance disproves it. Thousands of
complying cases to prove the theory true do not outweigh just one instance
that makes the theory fail. Until you actually decided to test the claimed
failure, it was unknown if the product worked correctly (in your own testing
environment) despite all your claimed successes. I'm pretty sure you're old
enough to understand how disproval works.
Also, just because the test works for you doesn't mean it will work for
everyone else. Just as my host can be different that causes the failure,
you could have a platform that allows a success that will not be experienced
by ALL other users. That mine is "broke" doesn't mean yours is "good".
Thanks for doing the test in your working setup on the claimed failure. I
will now have to change my testing environment from a VM to the real OS (but
I'll probably use ReturNil to ensure that I can wipe any changes by this
product should I decide not to keep it). With my firewall, I will also be
monitoring to just where this product connects. If I see it going anywhere
than the stream source(s), I'll be choking that off since I'm not interested
in provide data or stats without being informed about it and what it
contains.
Thanks again for testing. After another test, I'll probably go visit the
forums to get a feel for stability, usability, and trustworthiness of this
product.
Bear Bottoms
> I never claimed that EVERYONE would encounter the same failure as I
> experienced. I said that I tested the product that you were touting
> and discovered a failure. I was willing to test your success cases
> but that would not have proved if the other video would fail. I was
> looking for cases of failure, not success, to determine how useful was
> the product.
>
Oh can the ego crap. You only proved your own flaws. The program works
fine.
VanguardLH
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in news:hnhlh9$hrb$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> I never claimed that EVERYONE would encounter the same failure as I
>> experienced. I said that I tested the product that you were touting
>> and discovered a failure. I was willing to test your success cases
>> but that would not have proved if the other video would fail. I was
>> looking for cases of failure, not success, to determine how useful was
>> the product.
>>
>
> Oh can the ego crap. You only proved your own flaws. The program works
> fine.
Well, here's another subthread to mark ignored and hidden.
VanguardLH
boy, am I r-e-a-l-l-y glad that I used Returnil so I could discard all
changes to my host made by this software.
After installing the program and loading it, I saw the following events:
- On startup, this program wanted to connect to huludownload.com. That
isn't Hulu. That's another site for a video downloader. Why does this
capture program need to go to another capture program's site? It probably
doesn't but is instead going to a parent or associate site. If you visit
that site in a web brower, it's layout looks remarkably like the
streamtransport.com site. They look similar in layout. Both these domains
hide behind GoDaddy's private registration service. I suspect they're owned
and operated by the same entity.
- Look in the install folder for StreamTransport. Those files total a size
of under 7MB. That's pretty small, especially considering that this program
also includes RTMPE support to capture encrypted video streams.
Huludownload.com is an *online* service for capturing content from Hulu.
What might really happen is that this "viewer" program connects with the
site from where you want to capture a video but directs the stream's source
URL through the online service to do the capture and then sends the captured
stream to this viewer app. The "capture" may actually be done online and
then relayed to you via their local client. I'd have to do more analysis to
find out from just where the client connects when it "captures" the stream -
but I can't because of a later reported problem where I cannot start the
actual capture of the stream. I can see this client detects where are the
stream sources. I couldn't test from where it actually gets the net traffic
when doing the capture (download) operation.
- On the program's startup and if I block its access to huludownload.com,
the following error message appears:
The testing program was expired by "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd",
please download the full version for further use.
Huh? Since when did W3.org ever get involved in "expiring" a site? If I
don't block access of the program to it phoning home to this other site, it
manages to paint its middle pane (embedded web browser) with the home page
(www.streamtransport.com) and there is no such error.
- The program then wants to connect to www.streamtransport.com. That is, it
wants to phone home to a site that you know about. If you block that
access, the middle panel inside the program's UI will NOT populate. The
middle panel is an embedded web browser which will show their home page
(when it starts) or the web page of where you want to capture videos.. This
in itself isn't omnious.
- While the install of the program inside a VM gave me the Download, Delete,
and Clear buttons (so I could, for example, select a stream and click
Download to actually capture it), those buttons were missing in my real
host. The major difference between the VM and my real host is that the VM
has IE7 installed in Windows XP Pro SP-3 while my real host is the same OS
but has IE8 installed. I don't know what IE version that Bear Bottoms was
using but it appears this program may not function correctly with IE8.
Another possibility is that I upped the screen DPI by 125% (from 96 DPI
default to 120 DPI) so I don't get headaches reading the text on the
monitor. Enlarging the program's window to fullscreen did not show the
buttons (so they may be hardcoded to show within some fixed number of pixels
from the right edge of the window but the logical edge is too far out from
the right side of the physical window. Basically this means that I can see
the list of streams that the program finds but I cannot download any of
them. The author obviously decided not to spend any time on a right-click
context menu to let me choose Download, Delete, and Clear from there. So I
could never test the actual capture operation of the program under my real
OS. The test under the real OS had more problems then under the VM.
- Why does the program need to phone home when the middle pane (the embedded
web browser) is NOT connected to their web site? During video play and
while the program is capturing the source of the streams, it connects back
to eigbox.net (which, remember, is where a traceroute to
www.streamtransport.com ends up) on port 5140. Why do they need to be
monitoring what you are downloading and capturing?
I might have continued the trial except that the Download, Delete, and Clear
buttons were not available in the UI for the program. Without the Download
button (to actually have the program connect to the stream source to
download and capture it), and with no right-click context menu that gave me
the Download function, there wasn't much more I could test with this
program. Disabling the anti-virus and firewall programs did not alter
(improve) behavior of the StreamTransport program or give me access to the
buttons required to use this program. Sorry, but I'm not reverting from IE8
to IE7 or lowering the DPI to squint at the screen *if* those were the cause
of the mispainting of this program's UI.
It looks like a doable program (provided nothing malicous or unwanted is
occuring with the phone-home connection when you are capturing videos) but
it won't be something that I can use. It does seem to overcome the
restriction of rights control when using the RTMPE Flash streaming protocol
with encryption; however, both Applian with their Replay Media Catcher and
Jaksta were forced to remove support for RTMPE with lawsuits filed against
them (don't remember if it was Adobe or the content providers that didn't
like their streams captured). Since the sites for this product appear to be
in the US, and regardless of where are their owners, it seems what fucked
over RMC and Jaksta could be employed against StreamTransport. Good now,
might not survive.
Maybe I'll try again later if they manage to change the layout of the UI so
I can actually get at the buttons that have disappeared off the right side
of the list pane at the bottom. If someone else wants to trace from just
where this client receives its streaming data (from the identified stream
source or from huludownload.com or one of their "online capture service"
servers) then we could qualify whether there would be a privacy issue as to
what you might be capturing. I don't think there is content at Hulu that
anyone would be embarassed about but does this program only work with Hulu?
No Spam
Bear Bottoms <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote:
Install RealPlayer, check the option that allows downloading any video
from your browser and it is done deal.
I don't like RealPalyer usually, but that feature works on any site and
any video.
VanguardLH
time, it managed to connect to the stream sources. Before it errored with a
message that it could not establish a session with the stream source. Maybe
it was busy, unreachable, or unresponsive at that time. It shows that this
program has not automatic resume feature (along with an configurable polling
interval to resume). It has a manual resume but I really didn't want to sit
at my computer the whole time this product downloads the video stream - and
which is slow because it does it in real-time.
Because I could now see and click on the Download button, I was able to
capture the video (as opposed to when I tested on my real host where the
Download button was absent and the program's author never added a context
menu to let me get at it that way). Either this program captures at the
real-time rate (i.e., it records at the same rate as the video plays in the
web browsers) or Hulu's Flash server negotiates a stream rate with this
client that forces a real-time rate. I doubt the latter case since Replay
Media Catcher can capture a video stream very quickly and long before the
playback has completed in the web browser. A 1 hour 57 minute video takes 1
hour 57 minutes for this program to capture. With this slow a capture rate,
the product screams for a scheduler where you can pick a detected stream
source and decide when to capture it. Trying to start the captures for all
streams would result in choking your bandwidth to be unusable for your own
other Internet use.
In a prior post, and because I couldn't initiate an actual capture under
that test, I wondered if this program was acting as a client to use
huludownload.com's online capture service. That is, this might be a client
that sends the URL to the online capture service, the online server does the
capturing, and then feeds the captured stream (decoded) to this client.
However, I didn't see that in this capture. TCPview showed no connection by
their program to any other server than those employed by Hulu in producing
their video content (except for the occasional phone-home connect to
eigbox.net but nowhere near long enough to be involved in the streaming of
video traffic to do the capture). So that looks good. I'd still like this
program to not phone-home, though.
To see why the Download, Delete, and Clear buttons were missing under the
real OS but appeared in the guest OS (in the VM), I decided to try to test
for the obvious differences between the host and guest OS'es: DPI setting
(affects text size in all applications) and using IE8 instead of IE7
(because this program appears to be an HTA - HTML Application).
- In the guest OS (the VM), I upped the DPI from the default of 96 to 120
(to match the DPI setting in my host OS). Yep, that was it. A larger DPI
setting means those buttons disappear. Going fullscreen for the program's
window did not let me see those buttons.
- I didn't have to install IE8 (the guest OS had IE7) because the DPI
setting already exposed the defect in their design of their UI.
Well, sorry guys, but I'm not squinting at my high-resolution screen (which
makes all text smaller) just to get this program to be functional. I am
also not going to change the screen resolution. LCD monitors are best
viewed at their native resolution to eliminate jaggies, fuzziness, and color
tinge that is typical when you use a screen resolution different than the
monitor's native resolution.
I could probably use the rules in my firewall to restrict StreamTransport
from phoning-home (and make sure I didn't lose any functionality). I've
done that with other apps, like Replay Media Catcher (payware). Not being
to do an actual capture because the buttons are missing when the DPI setting
is increased is a deal breaker for me. Otherwise, it looked like a doable
product. I would have to find a utility that lets me run a program at a
different DPI setting than all other windows for other programs currently
open on the screen. Don't know if that's even possible.
There is no link to a real contact to report bugs. I might've tried the
Support page at huludownload.com but that page and the Download page are
broken or don't exist yet. Although there is a link to "Forum" on their
home page, they do NOT operate their own forum. Instead they shoot you off
to a "StreamTransport" public forum hosted at rtmpe.com. This is like when
anti-malware products don't provide their own forums and shoot you off to
willderssecurity.com (or the old castlecops.com that went belly up). I can
see and hope that reporting the DPI issue with the painting of their UI in
the Bugs forum there gets any results.
So the product looks usable. It really needs the following improvements or
fixes:
- *Automatic* resume on an error when connecting to or losing a connection
to the stream's server.
- Scheduling, so you can decide how to spread out the downloads and not
completely consume all the bandwidth.
* Alternatively, provide a max bandwidth that this program can consume so
there is still some left while download the stream(s).
- Fix their UI so the buttons which are critical for functionality still
appear for those of us that up the DPI so we don't get headaches reading
text on the screen.
They were asked in the forum is they would consider going open source.
Nope, nada, not now, probably never. Considering their huludownload.com
site is a *payware* online capture service, I have to wonder about the
survivability of this product as freeware. We've all seen were we get used
as guinea pigs to iron out a product only to have it yanked away and go
commercial.
VanguardLH
Heh heh heh
Try it on the Star Trek video at Hulu that I mentioned for Bear to test in
his setup. I couldn't download the real movie (just the first ad movie) in
my first test but did get the movie in my 2nd test using StreamTransport.
All I get with RealPlayer's Web Downloading & Recording tool (which is a BHO
added to the web browser, not a true interceptor of web traffic) was the
first ad movie. Nothing after that gets recorded. There are multiple
streams presented for this video and the RealPlayer capture tool only gets
the first one. Well, if you like commercials then go for it over at Hulu.
Even if you wait for the movie to start playing and the try to capture using
RealPlayer, you still get just the first stream which is the ad video.
The ad movies use RTMP so RealPlayer can capture those. The movie itself
uses RTMPE (that can include SWF verification to protect the content) which
RealPlayer doesn't support.
Bear Bottoms
> I don't think there is content at Hulu that
> anyone would be embarassed about but does this program only work with
> Hulu?
>
You wrote all of that and don't know the answer to this question?ch
Hulu.com
Youtube.com
Google video
Myspace
Yahoo! video
CBS
MTV
Megavideo
Photobucket
Dailymotion
Veoh
Demand Five
and others...
I'll be trying other sites today...some that TubeMaster++ didn't work
on...Hulu being one of them. I still prefer TubeMaster++ as it is the
best song downloader I have come across yet and does a good job on many
video sites. But...the not the heavily encrypted sites. The quality of
the download by StreamTransport is top notch.
Bear Bottoms
> I went back to testing StreamTransport under a virtual machine (VM).
> This time, it managed to connect to the stream sources. Before it
> errored with a message that it could not establish a session with the
> stream source. Maybe it was busy, unreachable, or unresponsive at
> that time. It shows that this program has not automatic resume
> feature (along with an configurable polling interval to resume). It
> has a manual resume but I really didn't want to sit at my computer the
> whole time this product downloads the video stream - and which is slow
> because it does it in real-time.
Once you start the download, you can navigate away from the movie and
start another one.
>
> Because I could now see and click on the Download button, I was able
> to capture the video (as opposed to when I tested on my real host
> where the Download button was absent and the program's author never
> added a context menu to let me get at it that way). Either this
> program captures at the real-time rate (i.e., it records at the same
> rate as the video plays in the web browsers) or Hulu's Flash server
> negotiates a stream rate with this client that forces a real-time
> rate. I doubt the latter case since Replay Media Catcher can capture
> a video stream very quickly and long before the playback has completed
> in the web browser. A 1 hour 57 minute video takes 1 hour 57 minutes
> for this program to capture. With this slow a capture rate, the
> product screams for a scheduler where you can pick a detected stream
> source and decide when to capture it. Trying to start the captures
> for all streams would result in choking your bandwidth to be unusable
> for your own other Internet use.
I have downloaded about 20 movies thus far. I had four going at one time
and continued to use my computer normally.
>
> In a prior post, and because I couldn't initiate an actual capture
> under that test, I wondered if this program was acting as a client to
> use huludownload.com's online capture service. That is, this might be
> a client that sends the URL to the online capture service, the online
> server does the capturing, and then feeds the captured stream
> (decoded) to this client. However, I didn't see that in this capture.
> TCPview showed no connection by their program to any other server than
> those employed by Hulu in producing their video content (except for
> the occasional phone-home connect to eigbox.net but nowhere near long
> enough to be involved in the streaming of video traffic to do the
> capture). So that looks good. I'd still like this program to not
> phone-home, though.
>
Write your own or find another Hulu downloader that doesn't.
> To see why the Download, Delete, and Clear buttons were missing under
> the real OS but appeared in the guest OS (in the VM), I decided to try
> to test for the obvious differences between the host and guest OS'es:
> DPI setting (affects text size in all applications) and using IE8
> instead of IE7 (because this program appears to be an HTA - HTML
> Application).
It uses it's own built in Browser though I'm not sure what it is. Sheesh.
>
> - In the guest OS (the VM), I upped the DPI from the default of 96 to
> 120 (to match the DPI setting in my host OS). Yep, that was it. A
> larger DPI setting means those buttons disappear. Going fullscreen
> for the program's window did not let me see those buttons.
> - I didn't have to install IE8 (the guest OS had IE7) because the DPI
> setting already exposed the defect in their design of their UI.
It uses it's own browser.
>
> Well, sorry guys, but I'm not squinting at my high-resolution screen
> (which makes all text smaller) just to get this program to be
> functional. I am also not going to change the screen resolution. LCD
> monitors are best viewed at their native resolution to eliminate
> jaggies, fuzziness, and color tinge that is typical when you use a
> screen resolution different than the monitor's native resolution.
I use a high screen resolution and it has no effect on the program or the
playback of the downloaded video.
>
> I could probably use the rules in my firewall to restrict
> StreamTransport from phoning-home (and make sure I didn't lose any
> functionality). I've done that with other apps, like Replay Media
> Catcher (payware). Not being to do an actual capture because the
> buttons are missing when the DPI setting is increased is a deal
> breaker for me. Otherwise, it looked like a doable product. I would
> have to find a utility that lets me run a program at a different DPI
> setting than all other windows for other programs currently open on
> the screen. Don't know if that's even possible.
You do not have to do any of that. Simply install the program and it
works perfectly out of the box.
Find us another Hulu downloader with all the features you want. With this
one, you simply navigate to and play the movie you want to record. When
it starts, the program places the movie file and ad files in the bottom
pane. You select the movie file and start the download.
You do have to keep the program running, though you can minimize it...and
you do have to wait till the movie is finished downloading before you
close the program. You can navigate away from the movie for another
download once the down load starts. You can download multiple movies one
time. It does work very well.
>
> They were asked in the forum is they would consider going open source.
> Nope, nada, not now, probably never. Considering their
> huludownload.com site is a *payware* online capture service, I have to
> wonder about the survivability of this product as freeware. We've all
> seen were we get used as guinea pigs to iron out a product only to
> have it yanked away and go commercial.
>
There is also the prospect that hulu will change it's encryption and an
immediate update to StreamTransport may not be available thus making it
unusable, at least for a while.
For now, it is the only program I know of that does as much as this one
as well as it does. There is no malware and the program works out of the
box flawlessly. I like to be able to download for later viewing from
Hulu...their movies and shows time out.
Do you have a link to another program that will do this as well and
easily as it does VanguardLH? Please share it.
StreamTransport works out of the box, downloads high quality movies from
Hulu and others, and does not contain malware. That is much more than we
had.
Bear Bottoms
Aw, did I bruise you overinflated ego?
It is the only program I know of that does as much as this one
as well as it does. There is no malware and the program works out of the
box flawlessly. I like to be able to download for later viewing from
Hulu...their movies and shows time out.
Do you have a link to another program that will do this as well and
easily as it does VanguardLH? Please share it.
StreamTransport works out of the box, downloads high quality movies from
Hulu and others, and does not contain malware. That is much more than we
had.
za kAT
> and continued to use my computer normally
Don't make I laugh...
<chuckle>
Franklin
Bottoms has lost the argument with you, so he's turned to trolling.
Lewlew
"Bear Bottoms" <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D3B5209AB217b...@69.16.185.247...
Bear Crap Snipped to protect the innocent..
> Bear Bottoms
> Owner of Freeware website: http://bearware.info
Please stop harrassing the Professor. He is never wrong. Accept it.
Lew
VanguardLH
Are you even awake when you respond, Bear?
> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> this program has no automatic resume feature (along with an configurable
>> polling interval to resume). It has a manual resume but I really didn't
>> want to sit at my computer the whole time this product downloads the
>> video stream - and which is slow because it does it in real-time.
>
> Once you start the download, you can navigate away from the movie and
> start another one.
Irrelevant. Doing other tasks while waiting for a download to complete
doesn't alter the fact that the download is SLOW. Gee, a long time ago I
used to have a dial-up connection and also had to wait around for a long
time for downloads to complete. Yes, you could do other tasks while waiting
but that doesn't change that I had to wait.
You doing other stuff while waiting does not alter the fact that this
product is slow to do its downloads. Try to ignore that fact all you like
but no one else is going to wear blinders because you chose to do so.
>> A 1 hour 57 minute video takes 1 hour 57 minutes for this program to
>> capture. With this slow a capture rate, the product screams for a
>> scheduler where you can pick a detected stream source and decide when to
>> capture it. Trying to start the captures for all streams would result
>> in choking your bandwidth to be unusable for your own other Internet
>> use.
>
> I have downloaded about 20 movies thus far. I had four going at one time
> and continued to use my computer normally.
Still doesn't alter that this product has no QoS control over maximum
bandwidth consumption or a means of spreading the load over time. Even the
authors recognize this missing feature if you read their forums.
I said nothing about an impact to using the computer during the downloads.
I remarked about the unregulated consumption of bandwidth. That WILL affect
your use of the *Internet*. You don't suddenly get extra bandwidth from
your ISP because you are doing stream downloads separate from your web
browsing or file downloads.
Focus, Bear.
>> So that looks good. I'd still like this program to not phone-home,
>> though.
>>
> Write your own or find another Hulu downloader that doesn't.
Oh, gee, what a marvelous comeback. Such wit, such genius. You are more
interested in qualifying your choice to use this product and to stroke your
ego than to objectively evaluate it. Again your solution is irrelevant
since it still does not alter the reported behavior. THIS product phones
home. Telling me to roll my own or find another doesn't change the behavior
of THIS product.
>> To see why the Download, Delete, and Clear buttons were missing under
>> the real OS but appeared in the guest OS (in the VM), I decided to try
>> to test for the obvious differences between the host and guest OS'es:
>> DPI setting (affects text size in all applications) and using IE8
>> instead of IE7 (because this program appears to be an HTA - HTML
>> Application).
>
> It uses it's own built in Browser though I'm not sure what it is. Sheesh.
Again irrelevant. The missing buttons have nothing to do with which web
browsers are installed on your host or which web browser they incorporate
into their product to provide a viewing pane. The buttons were missing
because of a poorly coded and designed UI that cannot position objects
within a window when the DPI is changed from the default.
>> - In the guest OS (the VM), I upped the DPI from the default of 96 to
>> 120 (to match the DPI setting in my host OS). Yep, that was it. A
>> larger DPI setting means those buttons disappear. Going fullscreen
>> for the program's window did not let me see those buttons.
>> - I didn't have to install IE8 (the guest OS had IE7) because the DPI
>> setting already exposed the defect in their design of their UI.
>
> It uses it's own browser.
Still irrelevant, Bear. It's not your or their web browser that causes the
problem of the disappearing buttons. That it uses its "own web browser" to
provide a viewing pane does not prove or disprove what they use to code the
REST of their user interface. Since I don't have their code and since they
are not open source, I cannot tell (and neither can you) if they used, say,
a form in VisualBasic to layout their UI or wrote it as an HTA. If it is an
HTA then it *would* be dependent on which IE libraries were installed on
your host. But you seemed to somehow miss that the second point became moot
regarding web browser version because the fault was already discovered by
the first point.
>> Well, sorry guys, but I'm not squinting at my high-resolution screen
>> (which makes all text smaller) just to get this program to be
>> functional. I am also not going to change the screen resolution. LCD
>> monitors are best viewed at their native resolution to eliminate
>> jaggies, fuzziness, and color tinge that is typical when you use a
>> screen resolution different than the monitor's native resolution.
>
> I use a high screen resolution and it has no effect on the program or the
> playback of the downloaded video.
And your point was? So what if you use a high screen resolution. That says
NOTHING about what is your DPI setting, does it? "High" resolution has
nothing to do with the DPI setting which is independent. Do you even know
that you have a DPI setting in Windows? Doesn't look like it. Do you even
know about native resolution for LCD monitors and why it is not recommended
to use a different (lower or higher) resolution?
>> I could probably use the rules in my firewall to restrict
>> StreamTransport from phoning-home (and make sure I didn't lose any
>> functionality). I've done that with other apps, like Replay Media
>> Catcher (payware). Not being to do an actual capture because the
>> buttons are missing when the DPI setting is increased is a deal
>> breaker for me. Otherwise, it looked like a doable product. I would
>> have to find a utility that lets me run a program at a different DPI
>> setting than all other windows for other programs currently open on
>> the screen. Don't know if that's even possible.
>
> You do not have to do any of that. Simply install the program and it
> works perfectly out of the box.
As has been proven, this product does not work perfectly. It has no means
to auto-resume a download if it fails to connect to the stream server or
later loses that connection. It has not bandwidth control. It has no
scheduling. It phones home (yes, we know you don't care about your privacy
but others do care, and this isn't a product written for your sole use).
And it becomes unusable for users that change their DPI setting. Oh yeah,
that's a perfect product, uh huh.
> Find us another Hulu downloader with all the features you want.
I evaluated the freeware that YOU brought to the table. Someone notes
problems with it. So you become all defensive to assuage your ego regarding
what you brought to the table. You thought no one would investigate your
suggestion regarding the use of this freeware? Oh yes, Bear says it is good
so it must not just be good but also perfect. Yeah, right.
> With this one, you simply navigate to and play the movie you want to
> record. When it starts, the program places the movie file and ad files in
> the bottom pane. You select the movie file and start the download.
How to use the product was not an issue. It works (provided you use the
default DPI so you can get at the buttons since there are no context menus
to provide the same functions).
> There is also the prospect that hulu will change it's encryption and an
> immediate update to StreamTransport may not be available thus making it
> unusable, at least for a while.
This is why I also gave up on using YahooPOPs to access my freebie Yahoo
account. Any change to Yahoo's webmail pages meant the YPOPs screen/URL
scraper would cease to function and we users had to wait until the author
got around to fixing and testing a new version of YPOPs. The outages were
for too long that I gave up on using YPOPs. However, while you won't
tolerate an outage for e-mail service, you will probably tolerate an outage
to downloading videos.
Of more concern is whether or not Huludownload.com can retain RTMPE support
in their StreamTransport program. Both Applian (Replay Media Catcher) and
Jaksta were forced to remove support for RTMPE. Adobe states that RTMPE is
*not* a copy protection scheme and merely to provide a secure channel to
view content. SWF verification is supposed to be used over RTMPE to protect
content. Yet most content vendors that expend the resources to encrypt
their content see it as protecting it whether they use SWF verification or
not. If larger software vendors were forced to remove RTMPE support, you
really think it won't disappear in StreamTransport?
http://www.jaksta.com/faq/What-is-RTMPE.htm
http://www.jaksta.com/faq/What-is-SWF-Verification.htm
http://www.applian.com/replay-media-catcher/support/secure-rtmp-measures.php
> Do you have a link to another program that will do this as well and
> easily as it does VanguardLH? Please share it.
Perhaps some day I might but I certainly won't claim that faults found by
other users don't exist. You were the one that brought your gem here. I
found flaw in it. That doesn't change that it is still a gem but it is not
the perfect gem that you would like it to be.
From what I see in their forums, this is a new product. It's a baby so
hopefully it will get nutured and grow with changes feed to it by its
author. To that end, I have reported the DPI bug and submitted other
comments in their forum hoping that the author acknowledges them (despite
you ability to do so). I tried to be fair in my comments in my posts
submitted to their forum (you can go there to check if I accurately detailed
my complaints, concerns, and bug report). Despite your strong bias for this
product, should you find traits that you would like to see added or changed
or find bugs, please do go there to note them. Since this is a new product,
user input is probably more important now than as the product matures.
Catch 'em young.
VanguardLH
I tried StreamTransport with YouTube (just a one-time quick and dirty test)
but it didn't detect any video streams for the example video on which I
tested, which was (cute kitten):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8
It was getting too late for me to do more testing. Since the product seems
oriented to Hulu, and because huludownload.com is the parent or associate
site for this program's author, I wondered if it was designed only for use
with Hulu. You and another user in their forum said it works elsewhere so I
will have to wait until I get around to doing more testing of this product
to check.
VanguardLH
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in news:hnhu1u$svc$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Bear Bottoms wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in
>>> news:hnhlh9$hrb$1...@news.albasani.net:
>>>
>>>> I never claimed that EVERYONE would encounter the same failure as I
>>>> experienced. I said that I tested the product that you were touting
>>>> and discovered a failure. I was willing to test your success cases
>>>> but that would not have proved if the other video would fail. I was
>>>> looking for cases of failure, not success, to determine how useful
>>>> was the product.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh can the ego crap. You only proved your own flaws. The program
>>> works fine.
>>
>> Well, here's another subthread to mark ignored and hidden.
>
> Aw, did I bruise you overinflated ego?
Considering that your entire response was just the insult, that I
acknowledge that I abetted in your reaction, and that you never did address
any actual issue in my post, I figured this was going to devolve into a shit
tossing contest subthread. From what I've seen lately, you have a tendency
to go that way. In fact, you'll start whole new threads to engage into a
flame war. I'd rather stay focused on discussing flaws with the product
that I found. So I'll be ignoring this subthread so we can continue
discussing the product in other subthreads.
Bear Bottoms
> I'd rather stay focused on discussing flaws with the product
> that I found. So I'll be ignoring this subthread so we can continue
> discussing the product in other subthreads
Every program has flaws. Every program has bugs.
Especially in this case, you would do better to present an
alternative...though there is none. Yours was negative the whole way...and
mostly wrong. It's freeware that works dude. It has no malware. It does
something better than anything else. What the fuck do you want?
You can't see the forrest for the trees.
za kAT
OK, so I found this and this and this here:
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/members/bearbottoms-71403.html
and dat there:
http://moourl.com/LotsaBearBottoms
Sorry, I want definitive, absolute proof that the Bear Bottoms
mentioned in all those links and lives in Southern Louisiana is the
Bear Bottoms who posts here and lives in Southern Louisiana. Because
they post and talk alike means nothing to me.
There are thousands of Bear Bottoms in Southern Louisiana, Gordon. I
bet. You do all the work, I'll stay safe, head buried into the sand.
Otherwise, you're a liar like Ari.
Btw, don't type too fast, things fly right by me thousands a time a
year.
I also invoke the Secret Squirrel for things that are far too
sophisticated for me to imagine much less understand.
--
za...@pooh.the.cat - www.zakATsKopterChat.com
za kAT
OK, so I found this and this and this here:
Bear Bottoms
> Bear Bottoms wrote:
>
> Are you even awake when you respond, Bear?
>
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> this program has no automatic resume feature (along with an
>>> configurable polling interval to resume). It has a manual resume
>>> but I really didn't want to sit at my computer the whole time this
>>> product downloads the video stream - and which is slow because it
>>> does it in real-time.
>>
>> Once you start the download, you can navigate away from the movie and
>> start another one.
>
> Irrelevant. Doing other tasks while waiting for a download to
> complete doesn't alter the fact that the download is SLOW.
So what. I've downloaded over 30 movies since yesterday. You can present
a better alternative...or you prefer to do without?
> Gee, a
> long time ago I used to have a dial-up connection and also had to wait
> around for a long time for downloads to complete. Yes, you could do
> other tasks while waiting but that doesn't change that I had to wait.
Aw, that is terrible that YOU had to wait. Use another program to
download Hulu. Oh, a better alternative doesn't exist...so sorry.
>
> You doing other stuff while waiting does not alter the fact that this
> product is slow to do its downloads. Try to ignore that fact all you
> like but no one else is going to wear blinders because you chose to do
> so.
LOL, ignore what fact. I posted that it was slow in my presentation. It
does however do the job very well. I can set it up to download five or
six movies and go about my business without trouble. Again...post a
better alternative for downloading Hulu.
>
>>> A 1 hour 57 minute video takes 1 hour 57 minutes for this program to
>>> capture. With this slow a capture rate, the product screams for a
>>> scheduler where you can pick a detected stream source and decide
>>> when to capture it. Trying to start the captures for all streams
>>> would result in choking your bandwidth to be unusable for your own
>>> other Internet use.
I've downloaded six movies at a time without any noticable degradation of
my usage. You are pissing in the wind.
>>
>> I have downloaded about 20 movies thus far. I had four going at one
>> time and continued to use my computer normally.
>
> Still doesn't alter that this product has no QoS control over maximum
> bandwidth consumption or a means of spreading the load over time.
> Even the authors recognize this missing feature if you read their
> forums.
There are freeware programs that can do this if you need it. Again, post
a better alternative. You seem to be missing that fact...completely goes
over your head.
>
> I said nothing about an impact to using the computer during the
> downloads. I remarked about the unregulated consumption of bandwidth.
> That WILL affect your use of the *Internet*. You don't suddenly get
> extra bandwidth from your ISP because you are doing stream downloads
> separate from your web browsing or file downloads.
I have had any noticable issues using the Internet while downloading as
many as six movies at once. Have you even tried it?
>
> Focus, Bear.
LOL...are you really that upset?
>
>>> So that looks good. I'd still like this program to not phone-home,
>>> though.
>>>
>> Write your own or find another Hulu downloader that doesn't.
>
> Oh, gee, what a marvelous comeback. Such wit, such genius. You are
> more interested in qualifying your choice to use this product and to
> stroke your ego than to objectively evaluate it. Again your solution
> is irrelevant since it still does not alter the reported behavior.
> THIS product phones home. Telling me to roll my own or find another
> doesn't change the behavior of THIS product.
I'm delighted to find a Hulu downloader that works very well, easy to
use, and the quality is magnificent. Full screen viewing is HD
unpixelated. Sound quality is superb. It is the best we've got.
That you want more in freeware...doesn't exist. This is the part that
goes over your head and why the comeback is Marvelous.
>
>>> To see why the Download, Delete, and Clear buttons were missing
>>> under the real OS but appeared in the guest OS (in the VM), I
>>> decided to try to test for the obvious differences between the host
>>> and guest OS'es: DPI setting (affects text size in all applications)
>>> and using IE8 instead of IE7 (because this program appears to be an
>>> HTA - HTML Application).
>>
>> It uses it's own built in Browser though I'm not sure what it is.
>> Sheesh.
>
> Again irrelevant. The missing buttons have nothing to do with which
> web browsers are installed on your host or which web browser they
> incorporate into their product to provide a viewing pane. The buttons
> were missing because of a poorly coded and designed UI that cannot
> position objects within a window when the DPI is changed from the
> default.
It doesn't have any missing buttons that were designed into it. LOL. Why
are you even mentioning other web browsers...they are irrelevant...it
uses it's own. I changed my screen resolution from minimum to maximum and
the program viewed without those errors you mention. Who in their right
mind is going farther than that?
>
>>> - In the guest OS (the VM), I upped the DPI from the default of 96
>>> to 120 (to match the DPI setting in my host OS). Yep, that was it.
>>> A larger DPI setting means those buttons disappear. Going
>>> fullscreen for the program's window did not let me see those
>>> buttons. - I didn't have to install IE8 (the guest OS had IE7)
>>> because the DPI setting already exposed the defect in their design
>>> of their UI.
>>
>> It uses it's own browser.
>
> Still irrelevant, Bear. It's not your or their web browser that
> causes the problem of the disappearing buttons. That it uses its "own
> web browser" to provide a viewing pane does not prove or disprove what
> they use to code the REST of their user interface. Since I don't have
> their code and since they are not open source, I cannot tell (and
> neither can you) if they used, say, a form in VisualBasic to layout
> their UI or wrote it as an HTA. If it is an HTA then it *would* be
> dependent on which IE libraries were installed on your host. But you
> seemed to somehow miss that the second point became moot regarding web
> browser version because the fault was already discovered by the first
> point.
Good grief. This argument is utterly stupid. I care less what they used.
The program as compiled works flawlessly. I've proven that point beyond
any doubt for myself. You are trying to invent something that doesn't
exist for normal use.
>
>>> Well, sorry guys, but I'm not squinting at my high-resolution screen
>>> (which makes all text smaller) just to get this program to be
>>> functional. I am also not going to change the screen resolution.
>>> LCD monitors are best viewed at their native resolution to eliminate
>>> jaggies, fuzziness, and color tinge that is typical when you use a
>>> screen resolution different than the monitor's native resolution.
>>
>> I use a high screen resolution and it has no effect on the program or
>> the playback of the downloaded video.
>
> And your point was? So what if you use a high screen resolution.
> That says NOTHING about what is your DPI setting, does it? "High"
> resolution has nothing to do with the DPI setting which is
> independent. Do you even know that you have a DPI setting in Windows?
> Doesn't look like it. Do you even know about native resolution for
> LCD monitors and why it is not recommended to use a different (lower
> or higher) resolution?
Full screen viewing in VLC is perfect HD. Windows 2000 and XP do not
support high DPI screens. What you are doing is tweaking yourself into
your own problems...there is no problem with the program.
>
>>> I could probably use the rules in my firewall to restrict
>>> StreamTransport from phoning-home (and make sure I didn't lose any
>>> functionality). I've done that with other apps, like Replay Media
>>> Catcher (payware). Not being to do an actual capture because the
>>> buttons are missing when the DPI setting is increased is a deal
>>> breaker for me. Otherwise, it looked like a doable product. I
>>> would have to find a utility that lets me run a program at a
>>> different DPI setting than all other windows for other programs
>>> currently open on the screen. Don't know if that's even possible.
>>
>> You do not have to do any of that. Simply install the program and it
>> works perfectly out of the box.
>
> As has been proven, this product does not work perfectly. It has no
> means to auto-resume a download if it fails to connect to the stream
> server or later loses that connection. It has not bandwidth control.
> It has no scheduling. It phones home (yes, we know you don't care
> about your privacy but others do care, and this isn't a product
> written for your sole use). And it becomes unusable for users that
> change their DPI setting. Oh yeah, that's a perfect product, uh huh.
That it doesn't have a feature you would like to have does not equate to
the product not working properly. I care about malicious outbound calls,
none of those exist in this program. You are blowing smoke.
>
>> Find us another Hulu downloader with all the features you want.
>
> I evaluated the freeware that YOU brought to the table. Someone notes
> problems with it. So you become all defensive to assuage your ego
> regarding what you brought to the table. You thought no one would
> investigate your suggestion regarding the use of this freeware? Oh
> yes, Bear says it is good so it must not just be good but also
> perfect. Yeah, right.
You haven't noted any problems with the program as it exists. There are
none. It works very very well as designed. You have stated that you would
like to see additional features which has nothing to do with how well the
program performs as designed. You are trying to indicate that the program
does not work as advertised and have provided no proof at all...mainly
because it does work very very well as advertised. I have proven that for
myself - witnessed excellent performance in all that it does. The only
issue I've found is that it is slow.
It is also the best freeware hulu downloader I've found. That makes it
tops in class. I challenged you to provide a link to a better one. You
can't. This is the biggest point that goes over your head...it is the
best we have that I know about. Show me something better...and I'll put
it at the head of the class.
>
>> With this one, you simply navigate to and play the movie you want to
>> record. When it starts, the program places the movie file and ad
>> files in the bottom pane. You select the movie file and start the
>> download.
>
> How to use the product was not an issue. It works (provided you use
> the default DPI so you can get at the buttons since there are no
> context menus to provide the same functions).
Why do you want to change it's default DPI? I'm interested. The program
as designed downloads a high def movie from Hulu that views clearly in
full screen mode with excellent sound quality.
>
>> There is also the prospect that hulu will change it's encryption and
>> an immediate update to StreamTransport may not be available thus
>> making it unusable, at least for a while.
>
> This is why I also gave up on using YahooPOPs to access my freebie
> Yahoo account. Any change to Yahoo's webmail pages meant the YPOPs
> screen/URL scraper would cease to function and we users had to wait
> until the author got around to fixing and testing a new version of
> YPOPs. The outages were for too long that I gave up on using YPOPs.
> However, while you won't tolerate an outage for e-mail service, you
> will probably tolerate an outage to downloading videos.
Well do without or do with the best available for the job. If it stops
working...then you can't use it can you. Right now, this is working
beautifully.
>
> Of more concern is whether or not Huludownload.com can retain RTMPE
> support in their StreamTransport program. Both Applian (Replay Media
> Catcher) and Jaksta were forced to remove support for RTMPE. Adobe
> states that RTMPE is *not* a copy protection scheme and merely to
> provide a secure channel to view content. SWF verification is
> supposed to be used over RTMPE to protect content. Yet most content
> vendors that expend the resources to encrypt their content see it as
> protecting it whether they use SWF verification or not. If larger
> software vendors were forced to remove RTMPE support, you really think
> it won't disappear in StreamTransport?
It may or may not. This is merely smokescreen argument. Right now it
works. Like I said...provide a link to such a tool that is better. You
can't. This is where it goes over your head...did I say that already?
>
> http://www.jaksta.com/faq/What-is-RTMPE.htm
> http://www.jaksta.com/faq/What-is-SWF-Verification.htm
> http://www.applian.com/replay-media-catcher/support/secure-rtmp-measure
> s.php
>
>> Do you have a link to another program that will do this as well and
>> easily as it does VanguardLH? Please share it.
>
> Perhaps some day I might but I certainly won't claim that faults found
> by other users don't exist. You were the one that brought your gem
> here. I found flaw in it. That doesn't change that it is still a gem
> but it is not the perfect gem that you would like it to be.
You have produced any faults with the program as designed...you can't
because it works as advertised. I suppose you have induced some faults,
but I'm not concerned with that. I haven't found any program to be
perfect...I don't think they exist. You seem to be hung up on the thought
that I am unreasonably defending this program or have some type of
attachment to it that doesn't exist. I simply brought it to the attention
of this group because I was delighted to find such a good program that
performs a function that I've not found a better program to do. Strawmen.
>
> From what I see in their forums, this is a new product. It's a baby
> so hopefully it will get nutured and grow with changes feed to it by
> its author. To that end, I have reported the DPI bug and submitted
> other comments in their forum hoping that the author acknowledges them
> (despite you ability to do so). I tried to be fair in my comments in
> my posts submitted to their forum (you can go there to check if I
> accurately detailed my complaints, concerns, and bug report). Despite
> your strong bias for this product, should you find traits that you
> would like to see added or changed or find bugs, please do go there to
> note them. Since this is a new product, user input is probably more
> important now than as the product matures. Catch 'em young.
>
LOL...I have no strong bias for this program. I'm delighted to find such
a good hulu downloader. You should be too. Why aren't you? You and only
you have turned this discussion to the negative side unreasonably so.
You say the programs is flawed. You are wrong. The program works very
very well as advertised. You want more features...build it or provide a
link to a better one that has the features you want. Until then, this
program holds the honor as best in it's freeware category.
Bear Bottoms
> I tried StreamTransport with YouTube (just a one-time quick and dirty
> test) but it didn't detect any video streams for the example video on
> which I tested, which was (cute kitten):
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8
>
> It was getting too late for me to do more testing. Since the product
> seems oriented to Hulu, and because huludownload.com is the parent or
> associate site for this program's author, I wondered if it was
> designed only for use with Hulu. You and another user in their forum
> said it works elsewhere so I will have to wait until I get around to
> doing more testing of this product to check.
I just pasted your link into StreamTransport and it immediately listed the
file and I downloaded it. I'm beginning to think you have completely
outwitted yourself with this one.
Bear Bottoms
I've also tested it on many other video sites and have yet to find one it
doesn't work with. Awesome program!
VanguardLH
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in news:hnjcep$h5d$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> long time ago I used to have a dial-up connection and also had to wait
>> around for a long time for downloads to complete. Yes, you could do
>> other tasks while waiting but that doesn't change that I had to wait.
>
> Aw, that is terrible that YOU had to wait. Use another program to
> download Hulu. Oh, a better alternative doesn't exist...so sorry.
I'm not downloading Hulu videos to steal them and/or redistribute them. I
only want a downloader that lets me get rid of any jerkiness in playback by
playing them locally instead of streaming them to my host. There are also
limited-time movies that I may not get to before the movie is gone. I don't
sit around watching television hour after hour (I dust my TV more often than
I watch it, and I haven't used my stereo system in maybe 10 years), so I
also record shows to watch later. It's called time shifting your viewing of
a movie. Your purpose for downloading the movie might be different than
mine, so our needs also differ, like I would like minimal impact to my
Internet connection for a non-critical process or move that impact to a time
when I'm not even at my host.
As you remark later, even you noted that downloads using THIS product were
slow. So why all the resistance to my repeating the same comment?
>> Still doesn't alter that this product has no QoS control over maximum
>> bandwidth consumption or a means of spreading the load over time.
>> Even the authors recognize this missing feature if you read their
>> forums.
>
> There are freeware programs that can do this if you need it. Again, post
> a better alternative. You seem to be missing that fact...completely goes
> over your head.
There are freeware QoS utilities that can throttle bandwidth for a SPECIFIC
process rather than all of them? I've seen products that throttle bandwidth
on a computer boundary but not on a per-application basis. I can go search
but do you happen to know of some? If they exist then perhaps I could wrap
them around StreamTransport to manage its bandwidth consumption.
>> I said nothing about an impact to using the computer during the
>> downloads. I remarked about the unregulated consumption of bandwidth.
>> That WILL affect your use of the *Internet*.
>
> I have had any noticable issues using the Internet while downloading as
> many as six movies at once. Have you even tried it?
Apparently you have a magical broadband connection that expands its
bandwidth upon demand or perhaps you are using fiber optic (but then copper
still comes into the house). Disregarding StreamTransport and Hulu
altogether, ANYTHING that consumes bandwidth will impact your other use of
that same network connection. If you are downloading a dozen 600MB files
for some Microsoft product (say VisualStudio Express) along with an FTP
download, along with a dozen HTTP downloads of various files, you really
think your web browsing won't be noticeably affected? All those downloads
are competing for and conflicting over the same limited bandwidth. If
you're using up some bandwidth then less of it remains for other use.
Since the author of StreamTransport has acknowledged in the forums that
there is no bandwidth management or other QoS control, this product will
generate traffic as fast as the stream server, your host, or your ISP will
allow, whichever is less. I guess you don't understand network contention.
> That you want more in freeware...doesn't exist. This is the part that
> goes over your head and why the comeback is Marvelous.
Actually I was impressed this much functionality was available in a freeware
product since similar features required me to look at payware. That doesn't
mean that I'm going to ignore the chips in the gem just because it is a gem
that I'd want to keep. I said it is a doable product. It is freeware. It
isn't perfect and I noted the flaws. You can go with what the author gives
you. Me? I'd rather flesh out the issues here and then congeal them into
some messages sent to the author to help identify user concerns or problems.
When I build a new computer, I burn it in. That's because I *do* want to
use it afterward and enjoy using it. I do burn-in for software. I wouldn't
be wasting this much time testing and noting behavior on this product if I
weren't interested in using it. Just one fix for the DPI bug would mean
that I would be using this program.
> It doesn't have any missing buttons that were designed into it.
Oh, I see, that I don't see the buttons must be because Santa Claus is
holding his magical carry-all bag across the right-side of my monitor. You
say you see them. I say I don't. So sometimes and maybe most times users
will see the buttons but not all users will. I showed the condition under
which users will not see the buttons, a condition that is absent on your
host.
I was surprised at the lack of context menues on objects (the items added
the grid object that you see a list of detected stream sources). Besides my
DPI issue with the missing buttons, users may also have to position windows
such that part of an app's window is covered (say, by an always-on-top app)
or is offscreen. Right-clicking the item to select Download, Delete, and
Clear List is logical and typical of well constructed GUI applications.
That context menus are missing is something to note to other users along
with recommending a change to the software author. You really want a
product that is hard to use? Or do you appreciate programmers that have an
eye towards ease of use?
> Why are you even mentioning other web browsers...they are irrelevant...it
> uses it's own.
It has become apparent that you do not understand how HTA (HTML Apps) rely
on the libraries available for the current installed version of IE. If this
had been an HTA coded app, the web browser version would have been
important. I didn't mention other web browsers. I mentioned the *version*
of the web browser (IE) since HTAs are dependent on it. The issue of the
version of IE was brought up only *if* this program were an HTA. It doesn't
appear to be an HTA but I wouldn't know that at the start of testing or when
first noticing the defect of missing buttons. I do not have the gift of
travelling into the future to use hindsight and come back to the past to
report on what I found in the future.
> I changed my screen resolution from minimum to maximum and
> the program viewed without those errors you mention.
You keep talking about screen resolution. The bug that I reported has to do
with DPI (dots per inch) for font scaling. I'm not talking about changing
from 1600x800 to 1024x768 or other screen resolutions. To see what I'm
talking about, go to:
- Right-click on desktop and select Properties (or use the Display applet in
Control Panel).
- Select the Settings panel.
- Click on the Advanced button.
- On the General tab is the DPI option.
- The default is 96 DPI. I choose 120 DPI (for 125% scaling).
Some programs lets you change which font size to use within them to allow
users to make the text larger or smaller; however, many if not most apps
have no such user configurable option. Setting the Windows theme to use
large fonts does NOT change the size of fonts that are hardcoded inside
applications (only some monitor what theme is employed and what font size
was selected for that theme). I scale up the text to make it easier to read
without having to squint.
All the time that I am changing the DPI setting, the screen resolution never
changes. The screen resolution was 1680x1050 at the default 96 DPI and it
is still 1680x1050 after changing to 120 DPI. LCD monitors (which is what I
use since my CRT died 3 years ago after 8 years of good service) need to run
at their native resolution to eliminate artifacts in their display (e.g.,
fuzziness and color tinge due to interpolation). So I leave the LCD monitor
at its native screen resolution of 1680x1050 but I scale up the text
everywhere by upping the DPI by 125%.
Many applications will still paint their UI correctly with an increased DPI.
Perhaps they use proportional spacing, maybe by checking the object's size
and reposition if its boundary traverses a margin, or whatever. This
product doesn't handle when boundaries of objects painted inside the frame
holding those objects exceed or extend beyond the size of the window.
>> If it is an HTA then it *would* be dependent on which IE libraries were
>> installed on your host. But you seemed to somehow miss that the second
>> point became moot regarding web browser version because the fault was
>> already discovered by the first point.
>
> Good grief. This argument is utterly stupid. I care less what they used.
Yes, we got it that you have no concept of how HTAs are dependent upon the
version of IE libraries available on the host.
> Full screen viewing in VLC is perfect HD. Windows 2000 and XP do not
> support high DPI screens. What you are doing is tweaking yourself into
> your own problems...there is no problem with the program.
How did viewing the downloaded video get into this discussion? I never went
off on a tangent regarding the playback of the movie which is completely
outside the function of StreamTransport. I don't care if you use WMP, VLC,
Irfanview, or whatever viewer/player app you chose to use. I only addressed
the UI bug with regards to positioning of the button objects not checking
their boundaries placed in the frame to see if they happen to be outside the
window's dimensions. That has nothing to do with playing the video. It has
all to do about GETTING the video in the first place because the only way to
get the video stream is to click on the Download button. There is no other
way to start the download within StreamTransport. If the button object is
outside the window boundary, you cannot click on it which means you cannot
download the video which means the product is unusable.
I found the condition why the button objects were mis-positioned outside the
window boundary. Deny it all you want but my testing shows the buttons
become unavailable if the DPI setting is not at its default value - and
which has nothing to do with screen resolution.
> That it doesn't have a feature you would like to have does not equate to
> the product not working properly.
*IF* you can get it to work. I can get it to work if I change the DPI
setting to 96, the default. At 120 DPI, the product becomes unusable
because of the loss of the only control that can get the product to initiate
a download of the stream.
> I care about malicious outbound calls, none of those exist in this
> program. You are blowing smoke.
What is the content of the packets sent to StreamTransport.com when you
first load this program? What is the content of the packets when you are
downloading a video stream and it phones home to eigbox.net? Or when it
phones home to huludownload.com? I merely said that the product phones
home. I also stated that I do not know why but do get suspicious when I see
this behavior. So far, you can't say what is the content that is being
phoned home. So I can't yet prove the content is malicous (or rather
unwanted since you used the term malicious as I was proposing a privacy
issue) and you can't prove the content is benign (or wanted). Neither of us
yet know what is the *content* of that phone-home connection. That the
behavior exists was noted despite your pooh-poohing of it.
I remarked on it phoning home, not what data was actual getting transferred.
I didn't feel like I had go farther than to note the behavior and wonder
about the authors need for it. I didn't go sending packets through
Wireshark or Smartsniff to see what data was inside those packets. I might
should I choose to use this product (once the author addresses the DPI issue
with the missing buttons so I can use the product).
> You haven't noted any problems with the program as it exists.
- You noted the product's downloads were slow. I confirmed that. Then you
began arguing about my confirmation of your statement.
- Users that scale up the DPI (regardless of the screen resolution) will
lose the only objects (the buttons) that are required to actually initiate a
download of the video stream, delete the item, or clear the list.
- I would *like* the product to incorporate some QoS management of bandwidth
consumption. Gee, Bear, even the payware video capture programs that I have
don't have it but that doesn't mean I still don't want it. I do have some
apps that generate network traffic and which do have bandwidth management
and I do appreciate the availability of that feature. Some of them don't
have bandwidth management but let me schedule when to perform the download
so I can select a non-critical or away-time schedule for those downloads.
It's a feature that I would *like* to see in the program, a feature that can
be seen in many file downloaders, and seems almost a natural migratory
feature that should be present in video downloaders, too.
- Considering that this video downloader is slow (and even YOU said that)
which means users are likely to go off doing something else or leave their
computer, and considering the size of videos, not having graceful recovery
when a server connect fails initially or later is a gaping hole in
functionality. Yes, many and maybe perhaps most video downloaders don't
have an auto-resume feature. Perhaps because they are immature products.
File downloaders have had an auto-resume feature for a long time (but, I
believe is dependent on the file server supporting resume). I believe Flash
servers also have resume; otherwise, any disruption in the connection to
your client would result in having to start all over from the beginning of
the stream's download (and you know that you have seen jerkiness and
stoppages in playback of a stream but then it recovered and you resumed from
where you stopped). There is already a Resume button for manual operation.
Considering how large and long are these downloads with this product, an
auto-resume seems quite logical so the user doesn't have to dangle off a
nipple to monitor their downloads to perform manual resumes when there is a
server connect failure. There wouldn't be a Resume button if the author
didn't recognize there can be server connect failures.
> It is also the best freeware hulu downloader I've found.
And I would agree. Looks very good. Doesn't look perfect, though, or even
mature.
> Why do you want to change it's default DPI?
See above on what and where is the DPI setting in *WINDOWS* which has
nothing to do with playback of the video and is separate of screen
resolution.
>> Of more concern is whether or not Huludownload.com can retain RTMPE
>> support in their StreamTransport program. Both Applian (Replay Media
>> Catcher) and Jaksta were forced to remove support for RTMPE. Adobe
>> states that RTMPE is *not* a copy protection scheme and merely to
>> provide a secure channel to view content. SWF verification is
>> supposed to be used over RTMPE to protect content. Yet most content
>> vendors that expend the resources to encrypt their content see it as
>> protecting it whether they use SWF verification or not. If larger
>> software vendors were forced to remove RTMPE support, you really think
>> it won't disappear in StreamTransport?
>
> It may or may not. This is merely smokescreen argument. Right now it
> works. Like I said...provide a link to such a tool that is better. You
> can't. This is where it goes over your head...did I say that already?
Yes, the future should never concern you. It does the rest of us. That it
can record videos from Hulu is entirely reliant on the fact that it supports
RTMPE. Other video downloaders that used to work at Hulu stopped working
when they were forced to drop support for RTMPE.
If you're driving along the road and you start noticing dead bodies on the
road, wouldn't you get a little suspicious that something nasty is happening
and you might become cautious because you were worried about your own life?
Well, when I see victims made of video downloaders that have lost their
RTMPE support, I start to ponder the survivability of RTMPE support that
exists in any other product. The victims are piling up. It's a clue to a
trend that has a result, Bear.
You are content with using a product that works now. Yeah, that's nice but
I'd also like to expend the resources in hard disk space, user training, and
investment into using this product with a more comfortable expectation that
it will CONTINUE to work in the future. Hulu became a sore point for other
video downloaders that were forced to lose their RMTPE support. I was glad
when you found a video downloader that still worked with Hulu, and it was
free, too. That doesn't mean I'm blinded to a trend that indicates this
free product could also become another victim and lose its RTMPE support.
I don't just install software for now. I usually want and expect to use it
later. You do a lot of downloading and installing of software to review and
post here your results. That's not what I do. It's not my thing. I'm more
like the typical user that is looking for a solution that remains a solution
than someone eager to constantly keep discovering and experimenting with new
software. Your goals appear to be short-term. Mine are longer term. While
I might spend more time on testing one program in which I'm interested, you
might not have that luxury with all the software that you go through.
Bear Bottoms
> Bear Bottoms wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in
>> news:hnjcep$h5d$1...@news.albasani.net:
>>
>>> long time ago I used to have a dial-up connection and also had to
>>> wait around for a long time for downloads to complete. Yes, you
>>> could do other tasks while waiting but that doesn't change that I
>>> had to wait.
>>
>> Aw, that is terrible that YOU had to wait. Use another program to
>> download Hulu. Oh, a better alternative doesn't exist...so sorry.
>
> I'm not downloading Hulu videos to steal them and/or redistribute
> them. I only want a downloader that lets me get rid of any jerkiness
> in playback by playing them locally instead of streaming them to my
> host. There are also limited-time movies that I may not get to before
> the movie is gone. I don't sit around watching television hour after
> hour (I dust my TV more often than I watch it, and I haven't used my
> stereo system in maybe 10 years), so I also record shows to watch
> later. It's called time shifting your viewing of a movie. Your
> purpose for downloading the movie might be different than mine, so our
> needs also differ, like I would like minimal impact to my Internet
> connection for a non-critical process or move that impact to a time
> when I'm not even at my host.
I never said you intended criminal activity. Your reasons for wanting to
download Hulu are basically the same as mine. Mainly the limited time the
videos are available, as I don't always get to them in time. I'm always
connected to the Internet and never turn off my computer so I have none of
those issues.
>
> As you remark later, even you noted that downloads using THIS product
> were slow. So why all the resistance to my repeating the same
> comment?
There is no resistance. Your statement indicated I was hiding that issue
and I pointed out that it was stated in my original post.
>
>>> Still doesn't alter that this product has no QoS control over
>>> maximum bandwidth consumption or a means of spreading the load over
>>> time. Even the authors recognize this missing feature if you read
>>> their forums.
>>
>> There are freeware programs that can do this if you need it. Again,
>> post a better alternative. You seem to be missing that
>> fact...completely goes over your head.
>
> There are freeware QoS utilities that can throttle bandwidth for a
> SPECIFIC process rather than all of them? I've seen products that
> throttle bandwidth on a computer boundary but not on a per-application
> basis. I can go search but do you happen to know of some? If they
> exist then perhaps I could wrap them around StreamTransport to manage
> its bandwidth consumption.
Here is one that works well: (there are others)
http://seriousbit.com/netbalancer/
The Free version is limited to 5 process priorities/limits at a time
>
>>> I said nothing about an impact to using the computer during the
>>> downloads. I remarked about the unregulated consumption of
>>> bandwidth. That WILL affect your use of the *Internet*.
>>
>> I have had any noticable issues using the Internet while downloading
>> as many as six movies at once. Have you even tried it?
>
> Apparently you have a magical broadband connection that expands its
> bandwidth upon demand or perhaps you are using fiber optic (but then
> copper still comes into the house). Disregarding StreamTransport and
> Hulu altogether, ANYTHING that consumes bandwidth will impact your
> other use of that same network connection. If you are downloading a
> dozen 600MB files for some Microsoft product (say VisualStudio
> Express) along with an FTP download, along with a dozen HTTP downloads
> of various files, you really think your web browsing won't be
> noticeably affected? All those downloads are competing for and
> conflicting over the same limited bandwidth. If you're using up some
> bandwidth then less of it remains for other use.
I have high speed cable Internet. It uses fiber optics to my connection
box, and copper to the house. Of course dial up would not be adequate for
such a program. Very little is now days. DSL or better should be fine.
Maybe even 4G when it comes.
>
> Since the author of StreamTransport has acknowledged in the forums
> that there is no bandwidth management or other QoS control, this
> product will generate traffic as fast as the stream server, your host,
> or your ISP will allow, whichever is less. I guess you don't
> understand network contention.
LOL...dig away. It only belittles you even more.
>
>> That you want more in freeware...doesn't exist. This is the part that
>> goes over your head and why the comeback is Marvelous.
>
> Actually I was impressed this much functionality was available in a
> freeware product since similar features required me to look at
> payware. That doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore the chips in the
> gem just because it is a gem that I'd want to keep. I said it is a
> doable product. It is freeware. It isn't perfect and I noted the
> flaws. You can go with what the author gives you. Me? I'd rather
> flesh out the issues here and then congeal them into some messages
> sent to the author to help identify user concerns or problems.
I'm happy that I have a freeware hulu+ downloader that works well. It would
be great if they added more features and improvements. It is a given that
all programs have chips in them.
>
> When I build a new computer, I burn it in. That's because I *do* want
> to use it afterward and enjoy using it. I do burn-in for software. I
> wouldn't be wasting this much time testing and noting behavior on this
> product if I weren't interested in using it. Just one fix for the DPI
> bug would mean that I would be using this program.
The program is designed for 96 DPI the default DPI setting. Setting it
higher will distort it as so with many many programs. Why is this necessary
for you? What do you use 120?
>
>> It doesn't have any missing buttons that were designed into it.
>
> Oh, I see, that I don't see the buttons must be because Santa Claus is
> holding his magical carry-all bag across the right-side of my monitor.
> You say you see them. I say I don't. So sometimes and maybe most
> times users will see the buttons but not all users will. I showed the
> condition under which users will not see the buttons, a condition that
> is absent on your host.
If you used the settings designed for the program which is the default on
most computers, you would see them. That is my point. Increasing your DPI
can cause many issues with many programs.
>
> I was surprised at the lack of context menues on objects (the items
> added the grid object that you see a list of detected stream sources).
> Besides my DPI issue with the missing buttons, users may also have to
> position windows such that part of an app's window is covered (say, by
> an always-on-top app) or is offscreen. Right-clicking the item to
> select Download, Delete, and Clear List is logical and typical of well
> constructed GUI applications. That context menus are missing is
> something to note to other users along with recommending a change to
> the software author. You really want a product that is hard to use?
> Or do you appreciate programmers that have an eye towards ease of use?
There are features I would add. They may be added in the near future as
this is a new product. As it is, it hold the best in category out of the
box. Wether additional features are added or not, I will still use the
program as there is nothing better. What is available is adequate to get
the job done...very well.
>
>> Why are you even mentioning other web browsers...they are
>> irrelevant...it uses it's own.
>
> It has become apparent that you do not understand how HTA (HTML Apps)
> rely on the libraries available for the current installed version of
> IE. If this had been an HTA coded app, the web browser version would
> have been important. I didn't mention other web browsers. I
> mentioned the *version* of the web browser (IE) since HTAs are
> dependent on it. The issue of the version of IE was brought up only
> *if* this program were an HTA. It doesn't appear to be an HTA but I
> wouldn't know that at the start of testing or when first noticing the
> defect of missing buttons. I do not have the gift of travelling into
> the future to use hindsight and come back to the past to report on
> what I found in the future.
If if if. You are trying very hard not to be nice. I likely understand much
more than you about all of these issues. I really don't know what you know.
You really don't know what I know. For this app, the browser version is
irrelevant...that I do know. You bring it up before you know. More smoke.
>
>> I changed my screen resolution from minimum to maximum and
>> the program viewed without those errors you mention.
>
> You keep talking about screen resolution. The bug that I reported has
> to do with DPI (dots per inch) for font scaling. I'm not talking
> about changing from 1600x800 to 1024x768 or other screen resolutions.
> To see what I'm talking about, go to:
I checked both, screen resolution as in real estate and screen resolution
as in DPI...who is confused now. It works fine with different real estate
settings as in 1024x768 etc. However:
From Microsoft:
"The typical resolution on most computer monitors is 96 dots-per-inch
(DPI). Until recently, most computer hardware was not able to produce
higher resolution, but this is changing. Several hardware manufacturers
(especially manufacturers of laptop computers) are building computers that
have higher resolution screens."
>
> - Right-click on desktop and select Properties (or use the Display
> applet in
> Control Panel).
> - Select the Settings panel.
> - Click on the Advanced button.
> - On the General tab is the DPI option.
> - The default is 96 DPI. I choose 120 DPI (for 125% scaling).
From Microsoft:
"A user interface that was designed to look good on a 96-DPI monitor may
not look as good at higher resolutions. Text and graphics that are small at
96 DPI may appear much smaller at 200 DPI. When the number of pixels-per-
inch increases, the size of each pixel decreases. If you double the density
of the pixels, the size of the text may be halved so that the text is no
longer readable. As a result, Web pages that specify pixel sizes for
containers and text appear half their size, and the layout around them is
adjusted accordingly."
That they designed the program for use with the default 96DPI is not a bug.
It is a choice. Maybe they will entertain your request for higher DPI
setting options, maybe not. It isn't a bug.
>
> Some programs lets you change which font size to use within them to
> allow users to make the text larger or smaller; however, many if not
> most apps have no such user configurable option. Setting the Windows
> theme to use large fonts does NOT change the size of fonts that are
> hardcoded inside applications (only some monitor what theme is
> employed and what font size was selected for that theme). I scale up
> the text to make it easier to read without having to squint.
Maybe reading glasses will help? I finally succumbed to them :)
>
> All the time that I am changing the DPI setting, the screen resolution
> never changes. The screen resolution was 1680x1050 at the default 96
> DPI and it is still 1680x1050 after changing to 120 DPI. LCD monitors
> (which is what I use since my CRT died 3 years ago after 8 years of
> good service) need to run at their native resolution to eliminate
> artifacts in their display (e.g., fuzziness and color tinge due to
> interpolation). So I leave the LCD monitor at its native screen
> resolution of 1680x1050 but I scale up the text everywhere by upping
> the DPI by 125%.
From Microsoft:
"A user interface that was designed to look good on a 96-DPI monitor may
not look as good at higher resolutions. Text and graphics that are small at
96 DPI may appear much smaller at 200 DPI. When the number of pixels-per-
inch increases, the size of each pixel decreases. If you double the density
of the pixels, the size of the text may be halved so that the text is no
longer readable. As a result, Web pages that specify pixel sizes for
containers and text appear half their size, and the layout around them is
adjusted accordingly."
Changing the font DPI may cause fuzziness also.
>
> Many applications will still paint their UI correctly with an
> increased DPI. Perhaps they use proportional spacing, maybe by
> checking the object's size and reposition if its boundary traverses a
> margin, or whatever. This product doesn't handle when boundaries of
> objects painted inside the frame holding those objects exceed or
> extend beyond the size of the window.
Many programs don't.
>
>>> If it is an HTA then it *would* be dependent on which IE libraries
>>> were installed on your host. But you seemed to somehow miss that
>>> the second point became moot regarding web browser version because
>>> the fault was already discovered by the first point.
>>
>> Good grief. This argument is utterly stupid. I care less what they
>> used.
>
> Yes, we got it that you have no concept of how HTAs are dependent upon
> the version of IE libraries available on the host.
I care less about what others used. It is irrelevant to this discussion.
Here you go again with the digs. I'm not the one who has made many errors
in jumping the gun dissing this program as you have with smoke, mirrors and
errors. You have no clue as to my knowledge, what you don't get is you
jumped the gun raising an issue where such an issue doesn't exist for this
program. It is irrelevant, yet you mouthed off about it anyway.
>
>> Full screen viewing in VLC is perfect HD. Windows 2000 and XP do not
>> support high DPI screens. What you are doing is tweaking yourself
>> into your own problems...there is no problem with the program.
>
> How did viewing the downloaded video get into this discussion? I
> never went off on a tangent regarding the playback of the movie which
> is completely outside the function of StreamTransport. I don't care
> if you use WMP, VLC, Irfanview, or whatever viewer/player app you
> chose to use. I only addressed the UI bug with regards to positioning
> of the button objects not checking their boundaries placed in the
> frame to see if they happen to be outside the window's dimensions.
> That has nothing to do with playing the video. It has all to do about
> GETTING the video in the first place because the only way to get the
> video stream is to click on the Download button. There is no other
> way to start the download within StreamTransport. If the button
> object is outside the window boundary, you cannot click on it which
> means you cannot download the video which means the product is
> unusable.
"If you set the DPI higher than 96, the text and other items on the screen
might appear blurry in some programs that are not designed for high–DPI
display."
This is well know. Also, increasing the DPI on programs not designed for it
will cause items to go off display. You are advised to reset the DPI when
this happens. This seems to be your primary concern, yet you create the
issue yourself.
>
> I found the condition why the button objects were mis-positioned
> outside the window boundary. Deny it all you want but my testing
> shows the buttons become unavailable if the DPI setting is not at its
> default value - and which has nothing to do with screen resolution.
Dude, DPI is screen resolution. If you set it too high for programs not
designed for higher DPI setting, parts of the program will go off screen.
>
>> That it doesn't have a feature you would like to have does not equate
>> to the product not working properly.
>
> *IF* you can get it to work. I can get it to work if I change the DPI
> setting to 96, the default. At 120 DPI, the product becomes unusable
> because of the loss of the only control that can get the product to
> initiate a download of the stream.
The program is designed to work at 96DPI. Read up on it at Microsoft. You
are inducing the problem...which is what I suspected when you first
mentioned an 'issue.'
>
>> I care about malicious outbound calls, none of those exist in this
>> program. You are blowing smoke.
>
> What is the content of the packets sent to StreamTransport.com when
> you first load this program? What is the content of the packets when
> you are downloading a video stream and it phones home to eigbox.net?
> Or when it phones home to huludownload.com? I merely said that the
> product phones home. I also stated that I do not know why but do get
> suspicious when I see this behavior. So far, you can't say what is
> the content that is being phoned home. So I can't yet prove the
> content is malicous (or rather unwanted since you used the term
> malicious as I was proposing a privacy issue) and you can't prove the
> content is benign (or wanted). Neither of us yet know what is the
> *content* of that phone-home connection. That the behavior exists was
> noted despite your pooh-poohing of it.
>
> I remarked on it phoning home, not what data was actual getting
> transferred. I didn't feel like I had go farther than to note the
> behavior and wonder about the authors need for it. I didn't go
> sending packets through Wireshark or Smartsniff to see what data was
> inside those packets. I might should I choose to use this product
> (once the author addresses the DPI issue with the missing buttons so I
> can use the product).
Very many programs phone home. Very few quality programs do so maliciously.
This is a quality program. The packets are simple protocol calls. Look at
them yourself...it is easy to do.
>
>
>> You haven't noted any problems with the program as it exists.
>
> - You noted the product's downloads were slow. I confirmed that.
> Then you began arguing about my confirmation of your statement.
Wrong as already explained.
>
> - Users that scale up the DPI (regardless of the screen resolution)
> will lose the only objects (the buttons) that are required to actually
> initiate a download of the video stream, delete the item, or clear the
> list.
The program is designed to be used at a SCREEN RESOLUTION of 96DPI.
>
> - I would *like* the product to incorporate some QoS management of
> bandwidth consumption. Gee, Bear, even the payware video capture
> programs that I have don't have it but that doesn't mean I still don't
> want it. I do have some apps that generate network traffic and which
> do have bandwidth management and I do appreciate the availability of
> that feature. Some of them don't have bandwidth management but let me
> schedule when to perform the download so I can select a non-critical
> or away-time schedule for those downloads. It's a feature that I would
> *like* to see in the program, a feature that can be seen in many file
> downloaders, and seems almost a natural migratory feature that should
> be present in video downloaders, too.
Gee...G...g. Your approach has been negative. You even called them faults
and bugs. Glad you have recovered.
>
> - Considering that this video downloader is slow (and even YOU said
> that) which means users are likely to go off doing something else or
> leave their computer, and considering the size of videos, not having
> graceful recovery when a server connect fails initially or later is a
> gaping hole in functionality. Yes, many and maybe perhaps most video
> downloaders don't have an auto-resume feature. Perhaps because they
> are immature products. File downloaders have had an auto-resume
> feature for a long time (but, I believe is dependent on the file
> server supporting resume). I believe Flash servers also have resume;
> otherwise, any disruption in the connection to your client would
> result in having to start all over from the beginning of the stream's
> download (and you know that you have seen jerkiness and stoppages in
> playback of a stream but then it recovered and you resumed from where
> you stopped). There is already a Resume button for manual operation.
> Considering how large and long are these downloads with this product,
> an auto-resume seems quite logical so the user doesn't have to dangle
> off a nipple to monitor their downloads to perform manual resumes when
> there is a server connect failure. There wouldn't be a Resume button
> if the author didn't recognize there can be server connect failures.
>
More features would be great. They are not faults or bugs.
>
>> It is also the best freeware hulu downloader I've found.
>
> And I would agree. Looks very good. Doesn't look perfect, though, or
> even mature.
Of course it isn't mature...it's brand new. I've never seen perfect
software. Lucky for us it is freeware.
>
>> Why do you want to change it's default DPI?
>
> See above on what and where is the DPI setting in *WINDOWS* which has
> nothing to do with playback of the video and is separate of screen
> resolution.
DPI settings are screen resolution.
>
>>> Of more concern is whether or not Huludownload.com can retain RTMPE
>>> support in their StreamTransport program. Both Applian (Replay
>>> Media Catcher) and Jaksta were forced to remove support for RTMPE.
>>> Adobe states that RTMPE is *not* a copy protection scheme and merely
>>> to provide a secure channel to view content. SWF verification is
>>> supposed to be used over RTMPE to protect content. Yet most content
>>> vendors that expend the resources to encrypt their content see it as
>>> protecting it whether they use SWF verification or not. If larger
>>> software vendors were forced to remove RTMPE support, you really
>>> think it won't disappear in StreamTransport?
>>
>> It may or may not. This is merely smokescreen argument. Right now it
>> works. Like I said...provide a link to such a tool that is better.
>> You can't. This is where it goes over your head...did I say that
>> already?
>
> Yes, the future should never concern you. It does the rest of us.
> That it can record videos from Hulu is entirely reliant on the fact
> that it supports RTMPE. Other video downloaders that used to work at
> Hulu stopped working when they were forced to drop support for RTMPE.
Here you go again. I never said the future doesn't concern me. Please do
not resort to invention in your desperation to dig yourself out of the hole
you've dug here.
rest of the garbage is snipped.
Bear Bottoms
> While
> I might spend more time on testing one program in which I'm
> interested, you might not have that luxury with all the software that
> you go through.
>
>
Ok, I think we are done here right!
VanguardLH
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in news:hnjn6n$3t6$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> There are freeware QoS utilities that can throttle bandwidth for a
>> SPECIFIC process rather than all of them?
>
> Here is one that works well: (there are others)
> http://seriousbit.com/netbalancer/
> The Free version is limited to 5 process priorities/limits at a time
Thanks. That gives me some features and search criteria on which to search
for similar utilities. I saved a shortcut to the site to look at it later.
> If you used the settings designed for the program which is the default on
> most computers, you would see them. That is my point. Increasing your DPI
> can cause many issues with many programs.
And designing a UI to compensate for changes in font size and scaling should
always be a consideration in UI design. That was my point.
Themes have been available for Windows for very long time, and they can
change font size. Customizing object sizes in Windows (Display applet ->
Appearance -> Advanced) has been around how long in Windows? I think that
was available back in Windows 3.1. So anyone designing a UI that doesn't
take in account how users *do* tweak their Windows are shortsighted since
those same programmers know full well the configurability of Windows. After
all, they are Windows users, too. They're not programming in a vacuum. In
fact, after the initial shock of getting a new OS, it seems the first things
users start putzing around with are themes, font size, colors, layout, etc.
They love to customize.
>> You keep talking about screen resolution. The bug that I reported has
>> to do with DPI (dots per inch) for font scaling. I'm not talking
>> about changing from 1600x800 to 1024x768 or other screen resolutions.
>> To see what I'm talking about, go to:
>
> I checked both, screen resolution as in real estate and screen resolution
> as in DPI...who is confused now.
Readers can only go by why you say, not by what you meant to say. Before
you only said you tried different screen resolutions and no mention of DPI.
Now you mention DPI.
> From Microsoft:
> "The typical resolution on most computer monitors is 96 dots-per-inch
> (DPI). Until recently, most computer hardware was not able to produce
> higher resolution, but this is changing. Several hardware manufacturers
> (especially manufacturers of laptop computers) are building computers that
> have higher resolution screens."
A reference would be appreciated. Was this the article to which you refer?
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/820286
(you only get to see the review date, not the original date)
And on the flip side, I have seen GUIs written that do account for DPI
setting and/or large/small font themes (if they try to match the currently
selected Windows theme). Making an application resolution-aware, color-
depth aware, and DPI-aware isn't new. Also, those must be some awfully
cheap LCD monitors that Microsoft considers typical since I've been changing
the DPI setting from the first day I got my first LCD monitor some 8 years
ago. In fact, trying to up the size of text by increasing the DPI setting
usually incurs far less, if any, artificats (in the display, not in the
layout of apps designed by programmers) then by changing away from the
native resolution of the LCD monitor.
Sorry, but having to switch back to 96 DPI is not an option. I'm not
squinting and getting headaches because of lack of checking the boundary of
objects within a frame do not exceed the window dimensions. So this product
is usable by those comfortable with the defaults but not the rest of us that
want or need to tweak the DPI.
As a test, I switched from 120 DPI back to the default of 96 DPI. YIKES!!!
No way, no how, nada, nope, ain't gonna happen. Even if I move close up to
the monitor, the tiny text is just too small. It's sharp but it's tiny. If
LCDs were like CRTs, I would've simply have used a lower screen resolution.
Alas, we're stuck with LCDs operating best at the native/manufactured
resolution. I actually did start looking around for a replacement CRT when
my broke but there were so few offerings in my size and they had gone
astronomical in price due to lack of availability since they aren't
manufactured anymore.
Yes, I'll grant that the author wrote the product under the default 96 DPI
setting. The natural inclination would be to start coding using what you
see on your host; however, the expectation when distributing that software
to others is that you then change resolutions, color depths, DPI scaling,
compare LCD versus CRT, especially in regards to gamma and effects on
viewing angle, and probably lots more attributes to ensure your target
audience can use your product. I'll also grant that the author never
considered users that change the DPI setting (and can so without all those
problems mentioned in that Microsoft KB article). Even if the programmer
doesn't want to figure out dynamic layout of his GUI, just adding the
context menu would work to solve an program that is not DPI-aware.
DPI as used by Microsoft isn't about increasing the resolution (density) of
an object. The scaled 10pt font still gets handled as if it were 10pt but
it gets scaled to the equivalent of 12pt. With Windows, increased
resolution results in smaller-sized objects (because the pixel size of the
objects hasn't changed but the pixels/inch has). DPI is scaling. It will,
as you have noted, cause problems in applications that don't consider that
users may either change the font size or do the equivalent through scaling.
If a character gets larger in size, how has its resolution gone up? It
didn't. At the same resolution, more pixels were used to scale up the font.
Yes, more pixels were involved in painting that character but the character
also increased in size so the resolution (its density) did not change.
http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/archive/2005/11/08/490490.aspx
Even Microsoft recognized that the best reading size was not 100% but
instead 125%. Did you ever notice the default zoom in IE8 is 125%, not
100%? That was deliberate because Microsoft researched that users would
complain when reading web pages at native resolutions with zero
magnification (scaling). That means, by default, web pages are scaled up
125% which would affect the layout of objects in a web page. Drawing with
more pixels but scaling up the size does not change resolution (density).
Since you like quoting Microsoft, here's an article for you:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc849094(VS.85).aspx
"You can see that in Figure 1 [at 125% scaling], the width of the Web page
is about the same as that of the display; the Web page is thus much easier
to read than it is in Figure 2 [at 100% or no scaling]."
"many users lower the display resolution ... the content does look larger as
a result, it also looks less sharp."
Microsoft gets halfway to a correct meaning of the term by calling it "DPI
Scaling" (i.e., it's scaling or zooming).
And here's an important one but seems any UI programmer should know:
"It is important to note that third-party Windows applications are
responsible for being DPI-aware on their own."
Programmers aren't coding in a cave. They talk to each other all the time
and it isn't some new fangled technology involved in making apps DPI-aware:
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/ITCG/thread/ac3b41b8-b563-4c8e-b50a-39952c442254
There are APIs that the programmer can use to discover the DPI setting, just
like to find out the screen resolution, color depth, and so on. I actually
suspect that this has been problematic for so long that I'll venture there
already exist pre-compiled libraries that programmers can use to dynamically
manage the layout of the GUI dependent on the video attributes used on the
end-user's host.
> Maybe reading glasses will help? I finally succumbed to them :)
Yeah, I had considered those. I might go that way someday when tweaking the
video output won't do anymore. I've got more buddies aging along with me
that are starting to wear them. One got lasik surgery so he doesn't need to
wear glasses for normal activities but now he has to don a pair of reader
spectacles when he sits at the computer. In the past, I couldn't wear
eyeglasses for more than an hour or two before I started feeling the tension
of an oncoming headache. Guess it's time to start watching for specials on
reader specs. I've put it off but eventually I might have to go that way.
Of course, Windows has always come with Accessibility features but I haven't
had to go to those extremes and have been satisfied with just changing the
DPI scaling, so far.
Since you mentioned a bandwidth managment utility that can throttle on a
particular application, I'm starting to wonder if there is a utility that
can emulate the effect of different DPI just for a particular app. I'll put
that on my to-do list. Then, for example, I could leave DPI at 120 but make
it look like 96 for this program. It would be a descaling utility that
operated within the bounds of an app's window. Interesting idea.
>> Many applications will still paint their UI correctly with an
>> increased DPI.
>
> Many programs don't.
Which means some understand the tweaking parameters available in Windows
that have been there for over a decade and some don't, or don't care, or
simply neglected that aspect. Many times all it takes is a comment to get
the programmer to notice the problem. Acquiescing never gets you noticed.
As you can see, neither of us are wallflowers.
>> How did viewing the downloaded video get into this discussion? I
>> never went off on a tangent regarding the playback of the movie which
>> is completely outside the function of StreamTransport.
>
> "If you set the DPI higher than 96, the text and other items on the screen
> might appear blurry in some programs that are not designed for high–DPI
> display."
I have yet to see any video quality problems in playing back videos while
DPI scaling had been changed from 96 to 120. Guess over the years that I
haven't been unlucky in owning one of those "typical" monitors mentioned by
Microsoft.
> Very many programs phone home. Very few quality programs do so maliciously.
> This is a quality program. The packets are simple protocol calls. Look at
> them yourself...it is easy to do.
I actually didn't expect this phoning home behavior as being malicious -
unless you count loss of privacy as malicious.
VanguardLH
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in news:hnjn6n$3t6$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> While
>> I might spend more time on testing one program in which I'm
>> interested, you might not have that luxury with all the software that
>> you go through.
>>
>
> Ok, I think we are done here right!
Yeah, I think we've hashed out our opinions and experiences more than
enough. The conversations gave me some things to further investigate and
also consider requesting as feature enhancement to the author in their
forums.
VanguardLH
>
> From Microsoft:
> "A user interface that was designed to look good on a 96-DPI monitor may
> not look as good at higher resolutions. ..."
While trying to find a utility that could adjust the effective DPI within an
app's window (i.e., make fonts smaller to counter an increased DPI value), I
came across the following Microsoft that now recommends going to 144 DPI in
Windows 7, and which is even higher than I have now have at 120:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd464659(VS.85).aspx
Alas, DPI virtualization isn't something we folks back on Windows XP can
take advantage of to compensate for non-DPI aware applications.
Just goes to show that nothing is static. With the ever increasing screen
resolutions making objects ever smaller, a larger DPI *scaling* is needed to
make those objects larger (which does not change their resolution) so they
remain legible to human eyes which haven't changed in general.
My LCD monitor has a max and native resolution of 1650x1050. I see LCD
monitors are now up to 1920x1200. LCD monitors keep going up and up in
their native resolution. Objects defined with the same number of pixels
keep going down and down in size. DPI scaling becomes more important to
compensate for technology that outstrips our optical abilities.
Zaphod
wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:43:22 +0000, Dave wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:16:36 +0000, Bear Bottoms wrote:
>
> >> StreamTransport is a program that can download encrypted video from
>
> > <snip paraphrasing of article at Freeware Genius >
> >>http://www.streamtransport.com/
>
> >http://www.freewaregenius.com/ for the article from the person who
> > actually tested the software and wrote the piece.
>
> > Original:
> > "it is quite possible that the Hulu encryption might be tweaked or
> > changed at some point and would require StreamTransport to be updated to
> > keep pace, but at least at the time of this writing it is working."
>
> > BBBullshit:
> > When Hulu changes/tweaks their encryption, this program will have to keep
> > up to continue being able to download the flv. For now, it works.
>
>
> > Dave
>
> Another poster who denigrates Bear Bottoms, I bet a pint that you
> believe he ran drugs too.
>
> ...pathetic...
>
> Pooh says you stink.
> --
> za...@pooh.the.cat -www.zakATsKopterChat.com
I believe, I'm a believer (and BB is a woeful thing!)
H-Man
> StreamTransport is a program that can download encrypted video from Hulu.
> I have tested this and while the download slow, it does work well and the
> interface of the program is very nice. Use the 'visit Hulu' button in the
> built-in browser to navigate to the movie you wish to download. Once the
> download starts, you do not have to continue watching the movie. Find the
> file easily by length and it usually starts with hulu plus a recognizable
> name. It downloads as one file without the ads.
>
> I couldn't fast forward the video, but found out it is because Hulu does
> not include keyframe objects. You can use flvmdi
> http://www.buraks.com/flvmdi/ to inject metadata and include keyframe
> objects which enables you to fast forward the video. This worked well in
> KMPlayer and GOM.
>
> When Hulu changes/tweaks their encryption, this program will have to keep
> up to continue being able to download the flv. For now, it works.
>
> http://www.streamtransport.com/
I don't want to come off as holier than thou, but does it occur to anyone
else here that using such software is in direct violation of Hulu's TOU.
This would be the same then as offering a freeware keygen for shareware ot
trialware, or am I wrong here. Is this even appropriate for discussion on
this group?
--
HK
Craig
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:16:36 GMT, Bear Bottoms wrote:
>
>>
>
> I don't want to come off as holier than thou, but does it occur to anyone
> else here that using such software is in direct violation of Hulu's TOU.
> This would be the same then as offering a freeware keygen for shareware ot
> trialware, or am I wrong here. Is this even appropriate for discussion on
> this group?
This kind of function doesn't interest me so I haven't been following
the thread & haven't read Hulu's TOU. Having said that, the app
certainly sounds fishy and I wouldn't promote it.
imo,
--
-Craig
H-Man
The TOU states Under Section 3. subitem Content as follows;
"You may not either directly or through the use of any device, software,
internet site, web-based service or other means copy, download, stream
capture, reproduce, duplicate, archive, distribute, upload, publish,
modify, translate, broadcast, perform, display, sell, transmit or
retransmit the Content unless expressly permitted by Hulu in writing."
IMO, the use of StreamTransport violates the TOU. There is another TOU for
persons registered before March 12, 2009 and it states much the same
regarding this particular issue.
Again, my intent is not to start a flame war, but simply to point out that
this may not be appropriate for this group. That is unless the programs
user has said written permission by the content provider.
--
HK
Bear Bottoms
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:19:32 -0700, Craig
> certainly sounds fishy and I wouldn't promote it.
I reserve the right to copy any material I have legal access to on my
computer. I will respect distribution rights however.
--
BearBottoms
za kAT
I support Bear Bottoms and anyone who says he is a drug runner is
Pooh.
--
za...@pooh.the.cat - www.zakATsKopterChat.com
VanguardLH
> I don't want to come off as holier than thou, but does it occur to anyone
> else here that using such software is in direct violation of Hulu's TOU.
> This would be the same then as offering a freeware keygen for shareware ot
> trialware, or am I wrong here. Is this even appropriate for discussion on
> this group?
Policies are contract. Contracts are agreements, not law. Contract "law"
is a composition of court cases. Contracting someone to mow your lawn and
they don't do it or do it to your satisfaction does not violate the law. It
was a contract. You're only recourse is to obtain an arbitrator to judge if
the contract was violated by either party (and unless that arbitrator is a
court judge, neither party needs to comply since no law, including court
cases on which contract law is based, would apply against any party).
Because policies are contracts which are agreements, they are not themselves
a law-binding or law-defining document.
From their Terms of Use policy:
You may not either directly or through the use of any device, software,
internet site, web-based service or other means copy, download, stream
capture, reproduce, duplicate, archive, distribute, upload, publish,
modify, translate, broadcast, perform, display, sell, transmit or
retransmit the Content unless expressly permitted by Hulu in writing.
Now try to write Hulu and see if you get a response (and not just some
canned response from a 1st level tech reading a script). Hulu is not
allowed to violate law with their policies that are NOT law. Policies and
contracts are not allowed to violate law. Their conditions apply where law
doesn't apply. Copyright law still permits Fair Use of copyrighted content.
Fair Use is not a well defined list of legal statutes. In most part, it
seems defined by a number of court cases deciding what constituted fair use.
As with contract law, what is legal is not specifically known to legal
representatives of your gov't until a court decides the legality. So if you
feel Hulu is going to sue you then kowtow to their claimed infringement upon
your interpretation of Fair Use of copyrighted content and let a judge
decide. To bring the case to court means Hulu will need to provide, on
behalf of whomever's copyrighted content they are permitted to channel
through their services, that some financial or intrinsic value was lost.
Since they are permitting you to view that content, and if you only use that
content to view for yourself, they will need to explain how you generate a
loss to them. It is also probable that if they believe they provide
substantiation of loss that they won't persue a court case until that loss
exceeds $25,000 USD (so they can get the FBI involved).
Since Fair Use has included the ability to make backup copies of a
copyrighted work, and since Hulu is providing you with a viewing of that
copyrighted work, they would have to prove that Fair Use no longer applies
in their case for you to create a backup of the content that they
deliberately afforded to you. While Fair Use allows you to make backup
copies of a copyrighted work, it does require that the copyright owner or
their agents provide a means for you to create those backups. The copyright
owner or their agents may take measures to protect distribution of their
copyrighted work but they cannot prevent their audience from undoing such
practices to generate backups.
Policies are contracts that both parties must accept. Contracts are not law
until proved in court. Any action taken by any involved party to the
contract can be contentioned by the other party by purusing a judgement in
court or to an agreed upon arbitrator (although an arbitrator that is not
within the court system can still not enforce law and, again, the parties
are simply coming to an agreement). Contracts are agreements, not law.
Contract "law" is a slew of recorded cases on which judgements within a
court are based. It is possible that you could become one of these cases
upon which contract law becomes defined. You will need to judge the
likelihood of Hulu deciding you are committing an infraction outside the
general connotation of Fair Use. There are no preset fines established by
the courts regarding copyright violation. The penalties are determined by a
court (judge). If Hulu sues you, and because the case will appear in a
federal court, you won't even incur the cost of a lawyer or having to travel
to another state to defend yourself. Since Hulu can prove no financial loss
(because Hulu deliberately presented you with the copyright content in the
first place and assuming your backup copy was only for your own personal and
non-shared use), all you need to do is file the paperwork accepting that you
violating the policy, that you will desist, and the case is over. The
defendant (Hulu) has the burden of proof to present to a judge that they
incurred some real loss. In most cases, the policy maker (to which the
other party agrees without amendment) simply uses their policy in a bully
tactic to frighten the other party knowing that the Fair Use defense would
succeed against their case. They're hoping you will get frightened by their
scare and not exercise your rights. It is far more likely that Hulu with
use legal threats (i.e. bullying) against the software vendor that enables
users to create backups than of attacking individual users and having to
establish multiple court cases against them. Also remember that not being
considered fair use does not equate to copyright infringement.
RTMPE is *not* how content is protected. It is *not* a DRM scheme. It is
only to provide a secure channel for transmission of content. Even Adobe
has declared that their RTMPE encoding protocol is NOT designed nor intended
to be a DRM scheme. To protect content (i.e., to employ a DRM scheme)
requires using SWF verification. So unless the content is protected using
SWF verification, it is not protected (but it remains copyrighted). I don't
know how this product handles SWF verification. Hopefully it will prevent
access to content (i.e., capturing it via downloading the stream) if that
content is protected through SWF verification, not because it used the RTMPE
protocol.
If Hulu wants to protect their content (or the 3rd party content that is
channeled through their service) then they need to use the appropriate DRM
method to protect that content. That is NOT by using RTMPE. It is by using
SWF verification. You also need to not think inside a closed cave regarding
the statement made within a policy which is a contract. They were written
for a purpose outside of what is detailed inside that policy. Hulu is
concerned about the *redistribution* of their channeled copyrighted content,
not that you have a copy of it for the content that they would've presented
to you, anyway. Their policies were written due to real concerns about how
their content would be stolen, not some contrived arbitrary statement that
are isolated from reality. Just how can you steal content that you view
only by yourself that Hulu has overtly decided to allow you to view in the
first place? You view their streamed content. You view a local (captured)
backup copy of the same content. There has been no change in to whom the
distribution of that content was authorized by Hulu. It is beyond your
viewing of that content with which Hulu is concerned.
Polices are contracts, not laws. All parties must agree to the terms of the
contract before it becomes binding on any of them. You don't need to agree
with anything in a policy. The burden of proof would be on the defendant to
find applicable case law to show and quantify the defendant's loss. If you
don't redistribute or share the content that Hulu chose to provide to you
for free, it would be near impossible for them to show loss, especially
since they are NOT the copyright owner of the content they channel through
their service. Policies are used to threaten. It's up to you as how easily
you can be frightened.
It won't be you that Hulu goes after regarding capturing of their streamed
video content. It'll be the purveyors of the means for you to make backup
copies of that copyrighted content (which Hulu would need to show is not
just to allow generating backups but prove that the software vendor
knowingly or actively or abetted in allowing the redistrution of that
content beyond the consumers to which Hulu already allowed distribution and
which does not require that the software vendor obtain any financial gain
therefrom; copyright infringement does care about capital gain or not).
Yeah, this might devolve into yet another subthread arguing fair use,
whether case law can be generally exercised as if it were statute law. What
I find amusing is that anyone proliferating a "policy" in which only they
were involved in composing thinks they can actually deploy that contract
against a general and unidentified public for which they have not
established a business relationship. It's just a threat. Learn to laugh at
them. If they make good on their threat, you don't even have to show up in
court should you wish to concede their case. They can't prove loss because
there wasn't any; however, copyright infringment doesn't require the
plaintiff incurred financial gain. So you file to say "Yep, I'm guilty",
case over, and so what? If there was no financial loss for which the
defendant can issue a monetary charge against the plaintiff, where's the
deterrent against repeated occurrence of the same infringment?
Get real. It's a policy. It's not law.
Bear Bottoms
> Get real. It's a policy. It's not law.
>
Absolutely. I reserve the right to copy any material I have legal access to
on my computer. I will respect distribution rights however.
--
H-Man
>
> Get real. It's a policy. It's not law.
Thank you for your explanation. I was completely aware of what you are
saying and I most certainly did not want to start a flame war. My point was
simply that we often discuss freeware and terms of use policies and how
this often defines freeware and it's suitability for discussion here. As
Hulu has clearly stated their wishes regarding the use of their provided
content, it seems to contradict the spirit of this group. If I'm wrong here
then fine, no offense taken here, and feel free to discuss this under the
"fair use" clause. It does just seem a bit contradictory to me, that's all.
Not to suggest that either you or BB have suggested otherwise, just the
general spirit of the group, that's all.
Again, feel free to do what you want, it wasn't intended as alarmist, but
simply as a counterpoint.
--
HK
VanguardLH
> Thank you for your explanation. I was completely aware of what you are
> saying and I most certainly did not want to start a flame war. My point was
> simply that we often discuss freeware and terms of use policies and how
> this often defines freeware and it's suitability for discussion here. As
> Hulu has clearly stated their wishes regarding the use of their provided
> content, it seems to contradict the spirit of this group. If I'm wrong here
> then fine, no offense taken here, and feel free to discuss this under the
> "fair use" clause. It does just seem a bit contradictory to me, that's all.
> Not to suggest that either you or BB have suggested otherwise, just the
> general spirit of the group, that's all.
>
> Again, feel free to do what you want, it wasn't intended as alarmist, but
> simply as a counterpoint.
Since most if not all of the content channeled through Hulu services is not
Hulu's property (i.e., they are providing copyrighted content but it isn't
THEIR content), I suspect much of their policy is to prevent someone from
cloning their service. Hulu cannot enforce the ownership rights of the
copyright owner of the content that Hulu provides through their service. I
wrongly brought up the issue of copyright because I later realized that the
content they provide isn't their property. If Hulu had to buy all those
videos they channel through their service, they wouldn't exist as a free
service.
Their policy is written, if taken literally and isolated from reality, to
punish everyone that uses their service. I really doubt they care about
someone that uses stream capture to eliminate jerky playback or timeshift
the viewing. What probably concerns them is the elimination of the ad
content included with the movie and duplication or redistribution of their
service. Why Hulu chose to use separate separate streams is a technological
restriction that doesn't exist but instead how they chose to structure their
service. They want the ads to rotate through different content and which
change over time as their contracts with ad sources change, but that does
not bar them from an on-the-fly merge of the multiple streams when presented
to the user at a particular "showing" of the movie. You think the ads you
see today in yet another umpteenth showing of an episode of Star Wars on
television are the same as when the movie was televised a decade ago? Yet
you get one stream for the televised showing of the movie and ads. Hulu can
do the same thing and much easier to provide you with one stream by merging
the sources on-the-fly. They already defined where are the splice points in
the movie to insert the ads. Rather than show separate streams, they give
you one stream. Tommorow when you view the same movie, the ads will be
different in that one stream that you view or capture. Hulu has legally
complied with the contracts it has made with its advertisers to show their
due diligence in providing that ad content to the viewers.
Online movies are sometimes convenient and enjoyable and that they are free
is nice but I'm not some child that thinks the world revolves around their
wants and thinks some daddy billionaire is wasting their money on an
altruistic venture. There is a cost to you for their free service: ads.
They're in business to stay in business. If they go out of business, we all
lose. Ad revenue sustains their business. They're getting paid by their
advertisers to show that content so it seems incumbent upon them to ensure
that ad content is included with their primary product (the movie). So
instead of using the technology correctly by merging the ad and movie
streams, Hulu is trying to compensate by pushing a policy but which is an
agreement and not law. They need to assuage their advertisers that they are
really trying to ensure the viewers are seeing those ads.
They aren't worried about someone stealing content nor can they do anything
should they discover someone is stealing content. It wasn't Hulu's content
in the first place. The ads that they show belong to someone else. The
movies they show belong to someone else. They can't do anything regarding
copyright infringment because they're not the owners of that content,
anymore than some television broadcaster can sue their viewers for
redistributing a movie that was shown through that service provider. So
Hulu is interested in their survivability due to the real possibility of
duplication or redistribution of their service and of viewers not seeing the
ads that keeps the Hulu service alive. Hulu has to show due diligence that
the ads they are paid to show will be seen. So instead of doing it right by
merging the streams, they push out a policy which looks good to the
advertisers but is a joke in reality regarding having any teeth to enforce.
If Hulu were to properly satisfy the contracts with their advertisers, they
would push out one stream for a movie.
za kAT
za kAT
> VanguardLH <V...@nguard.LH> wrote in news:hnmaf0$at3$1...@news.albasani.net:
>
>> Get real. It's a policy. It's not law.
>>
>
> Absolutely. I reserve the right to copy any material I have legal access to
> on my computer. I will respect distribution rights however.
I fully support Bear Bottoms
*snort*
Bear Bottoms
news:4b9f88a0$0$65858$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com:
There is no right or wrong regarding this issue, only your own perception
and how you evaluate the meaning as applied to yourself. Wrong would be
trying to apply that to others. I personally will not give up my right to
copy anything fed to my computer for my own personal use.
H-Man
I get it, thanks. I do think my point has been missed, but that's okay.
Your point is clear and I accept you viewpoint valid as such.
--
HK
H-Man
Clearly there's no right or wrong in this group, and my intent was never to
project any viewpoint onto anyone in the group. It wasn't even so much as
my viewpoint as a simple question gotten complicated. For sure you are free
to do as you wish, far be it from me to pass any judgment on that. My
suggestion was fact, the action is contrary to their TOU policy. Whether or
not the TOU policy is enforceable or not, again was not intended as part of
my question. The question was is this suitable for discussion in this
group. Your opinion is that yes it is. That's fair enough an I thank you
for making your position on this clear.
If at any time I sounded like I was accusing anyone of wrong doing, then I
do apologize. It feels wrong to me, but that's just me, and my intent was
never to project my values onto anyone else. Sorry if I did.
On a side not, it has become almost impossible for anyone to offer a
contrary opinion without getting shot at. Too bad, civil and open
discussion can accomplish so much.
--
HK
Bear Bottoms
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:42:48 -0600, H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> said:
> On a side not, it has become almost impossible for anyone to offer a
> contrary opinion without getting shot at. Too bad, civil and open
> discussion can accomplish so much.
Aw, it's just a post, not a bullet :)
--
BearBottoms
za kAT
OK, so I found this and this and this here:
H-Man
Yeah, I know. I wasn't necessarily pointing you out as it was a side note.
And I suppose getting shot at was a bit of a reaction, but still, the
overall climate of the group is less than friendly. Either way, as long as
I can still find good freeware here then the rest can fire away.
--
HK
Bear Bottoms
news:4ba0f8df$0$65844$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com:
Good tude there my man. It's all harmless ego bashing. After all, there
is nothing to win :)
za kAT
I support Bear Bottoms innocence, regardless of:
Lew
"H-Man" <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in message
news:4ba0f8df$0$65844$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
> Yeah, I know. I wasn't necessarily pointing you out as it was a side note.
> And I suppose getting shot at was a bit of a reaction, but still, the
> overall climate of the group is less than friendly. Either way, as long as
> I can still find good freeware here then the rest can fire away.
>
> --
> HK
The only person who gets negative responses regularly is Prof Bear B Doll.
Now maybe you are relatively new to this group and dont know the history of
Bear B Doll and his 2 cult members, BlubberingBird and WheretoNow.
These 3 things have been trying to destroy this group by attacking everyone
who made it a great NG for freeware.
It hasnt been a mild mannered attack by any means. If you are interested you
can search google to see that Im not exagerating one bit.
When Bear B Doll apologizes sincerely to the group for his delusional war
then I am relatively sure that 99% of the attacks will stop. On the other
hand I cant tell you how many times he waved the white flag only to start
his attacks within the day.
Lew
Maybe we should start a fund to help pay for the hospitalization that Bear B
Doll needs in order to overcome his severe emotional illness.
This is a serious matter. I believe that he has a severe personality
disorder mixed with paranoia. He may even be suffering from severe
psychosis.
In a conversation with his wife I was told that he is so ill that he doesnt
even talk back to Bill O'Reilly anymore.
Lew (not a member of the Bear B Doll Cult)
za kAT
> H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in
> news:4ba0f8df$0$65844$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com:
> The overall climate of the group wasn't always this way. It changed a
> couple of years ago. Guess who changed it.
I support BearBDoll.
H-Man
> "H-Man" <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in message
> news:4ba0f8df$0$65844$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>> Yeah, I know. I wasn't necessarily pointing you out as it was a side note.
>> And I suppose getting shot at was a bit of a reaction, but still, the
>> overall climate of the group is less than friendly. Either way, as long as
>> I can still find good freeware here then the rest can fire away.
>>
>> --
>> HK
>
> The only person who gets negative responses regularly is Prof Bear B Doll.
> Now maybe you are relatively new to this group and dont know the history of
> Bear B Doll and his 2 cult members, BlubberingBird and WheretoNow.
> These 3 things have been trying to destroy this group by attacking everyone
> who made it a great NG for freeware.
I've been visiting here for a lot of years now. Gotta be 7 or so years now.
Either way, just looking for freeware here, and hoping to contribute as I
can. The bickering just creates noise IMO, and I personally don't like it.
It is bound to happen in any public forum though, IMO it's just a part of
life. I choose to shut out the noise as best I can.
--
HK
H-Man
> H-Man <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in
> news:4ba0f8df$0$65844$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com:
> The overall climate of the group wasn't always this way. It changed a
> couple of years ago. Guess who changed it.
I was here to see the change and it seems to be getting worse. Often the
sniping is relentless, but as I last posted, in a public forum, it's just a
part of life.
--
HK
Lew
"H-Man" <Sp...@bites.fs> wrote in message
The fact is that Bear B Doll is the one delusional dimwit that has changed
the tone in this group. And he continues to do so.
Lew
za kAT
za kAT
No criminal though, you need to quit slanerlibelizing and denigrating
him.
BB is a warfighter from the great tribes of Navaho.
--
za...@pooh.the.cat - www.zakATsKopterChat.com
VanguardLH
> StreamTransport is a program that can download encrypted video from Hulu.
> ...
> http://www.streamtransport.com/
This site has been SUSPENDED.
Despite our various arguments over features (missing or wanted) and the
legality of ignoring Hulu's policy (and agreement, not low, about the *use*
of their service since nothing they deliver is their property), the
StreamTransport site has been taken down. iPower, their webhost provider,
has suspended their account. If you go to their web site, you will get:
This site has been suspended
If you manage this site and have a question about why the site is not
available, please contact us directly.
They had just fixed the DPI bug that I reported. I don't know how they
fixed it (by adding a context menu to the list of stream sources or by
making a DPI-aware program). Although they pointed at a RapidShare download
for their new beta, I found their web site was dead. iPower doesn't state
why they suspended the site. That's for them and StreamTransport to argue
over. If iPower thinks StreamTransport is proffering software that violates
their terms, they'll probably not change their opinion regardless of how
StreamTransport attempts to validate themself. As has been mentioned,
regardless of how we users will dictate how content is delivered to our
hosts despite Hulu's threat by policy, iPower wouldn't care and would simply
see StreamTransport as a means of violating another site's policy.
I'll wait until StreamTransport gets their site back up or finds another
webhost provider that won't terminate their account. For now, their
separate site for forums (http://www.rtmpe.com/) still exists.
Bear Bottoms
If the StreamTransport site is down, you can download it from here:
<http://www.divshare.com/download/10808381-fad>
Lew
"Bear Bottoms" <bearbo...@gmai.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D3FB4588F5E9b...@69.16.185.247...
> If the StreamTransport site is down, you can download it from here:
> <http://www.divshare.com/download/10808381-fad>
>
> --
> Bear Bottoms
> Owner of Freeware website: http://bearware.info
Short and sweet. Thanks. If only this was the way you posted regularly.
Lew
Zero3K
Its site is back up. It was down for a different reason (probably a
payment issue or something else).
Zero3K
bugs.