I can't find your msg to reply Chris....new thread....narrator-thunder
burt henry
I read your posts on the e-mailed new posts that google groups sends me
for this group, but can't find either post relating to thunder with
t-bird. Don't know if albansani.net doesn't have them yet, or if I or
thunderbird have probs...(problems relating to this post...grin....)
Firstly; I checked on thunder a couple of days back, down-loaded it, but
as I am testing a couple of betas that are new for me I have not had the
chance to look at it, and really don't know what it does that NVDA
doesn't. If anyone can give me any reasons, or things they like about
thunder?...Why do you want to know about thunder and not NVDA, as NVDA
is free and easy to install? NVDA will work with most stuff that the
average comp user has/I like it even comparing it to JAWS, which as you
may know costs around $1000. Narrator has a terrible voice in winXP,
and although the voice is nicer in vista it is a very limited ap. It won'
t work on the web as I recall. (I had to use it for a few days this
summer before I had NVDA when I had JAWS problems) As for "retyped txt?
what kind of text?
I repeat-why storm over NVDA?, and if you could give more specific info
on how you want to deliver your church's bulletin.
Feel free to e-mail me, as we may be dealing with issues that are not
that interesting to the group/be glad to help, as you have been very
kneed to me and others on this group, but I am a bit busy till Sunday.
NVDA will almost surely work. If you need a thunder tester write me
today if you can so I can get going on it in my free minutes.
Burt
chris mcmillan
<burt1...@gmail.com> writes
> Chris,
>I read your posts on the e-mailed new posts that google groups sends me
>for this group, but can't find either post relating to thunder with
>t-bird.
>
thing to me Burt.
>
>and really don't know what it does that NVDA doesn't.
>
all I'm getting out of Narrator, well that and what's on one's desktop
and just the url of web sites.
>
> If anyone can give me any reasons, or things they like about
>thunder?...Why do you want to know about thunder and not NVDA, as NVDA
>is free and easy to install?
>
time before NVDA. I don't need NVDA all the time so its constant
chatter is way over what I need. But I've never seen an independent
review of what it should do and have never managed to get it to do more
than what Narrator does.
>
>Narrator has a terrible voice in winXP,
>
Narrator hasn't been improved one jot in Windows 7 (RNIB's NB magazine
review Oct edition)
>
> As for "retyped txt? what kind of text?
>I repeat-why storm over NVDA?, and if you could give more specific info
>on how you want to deliver your church's bulletin.
>
speech program works, and as we need to make the church's web site
accessible anyway, being able to run something simple and free would
mean that in years to come we can simply teach the (almost certainly)
older newly VI person how to access a site they have been using possibly
for years.
Chris
--
Chris McMillan
sig line taking a holiday
J. P. Gilliver (John)
<spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
[]
>I want to show someone who knows nothing about visual impairment how a
>speech program works, and as we need to make the church's web site
>accessible anyway, being able to run something simple and free would
. Assuming you're talking about showing the person who is designing the
site, then of course show them how it works with speech, then show them
again with the monitor turned off ... (-: [and let them try to navigate
it under that circumstance.]
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
"I'm a self-made man, but I think if I had to do it over again, I'd call in
someone else." - Roland Young
chris mcmillan
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>site, then of course show them how it works with speech, then show them
>again with the monitor turned off ... (-: [and let them try to navigate
>it under that circumstance.]
>[]
Even I can't manage that JPG! In that respect I'm as sighted as you
are. I find using speech only very difficult indeed.
Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>In message <DB1xWJGz...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
>(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In message <Uik38jJ+...@chris.mcmillan>, chris mcmillan
>><spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>>[]
>>. Assuming you're talking about showing the person who is designing
>>the site, then of course show them how it works with speech, then show
>>them again with the monitor turned off ... (-: [and let them try to
>>navigate it under that circumstance.]
>>[]
>
>Even I can't manage that JPG! In that respect I'm as sighted as you
>are. I find using speech only very difficult indeed.
>
>Sincerely Chris
>
that method for assessing whether you've put any features on your
website that make it even more difficult. One that has come to light
recently is where several different pages all have the same set of links
down the left side: this can be thought of a reassuring for a sighted
person, so that they become familiar with the links as they move between
different parts of the website - but in speech, which tends to speak the
left column first if the page is built that way, you have to wait
through them all every time you go to a new page. On the whole, speech
output doesn't tend to have an effective "skip a bit" function. But that
is just one example. Buttons with no Alt text is another, certainly
anything like Flash, and many other things ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Men love to wonder, and that is the seed of science.
chris mcmillan
>In message <50$cJ9IS9...@chris.mcmillan>, chris mcmillan
><spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>>In message <DB1xWJGz...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
>>(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>In message <Uik38jJ+...@chris.mcmillan>, chris mcmillan
>>><spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>>>[]
>>>. Assuming you're talking about showing the person who is designing
>>>the site, then of course show them how it works with speech, then
>>>show them again with the monitor turned off ... (-: [and let them try
>>>to navigate it under that circumstance.]
>>>[]
>>
>>Even I can't manage that JPG! In that respect I'm as sighted as you
>>are. I find using speech only very difficult indeed.
>>
>>Sincerely Chris
>>
>. Yes, but if you're designing for the completely blind, nothing beats
>that method for assessing whether you've put any features on your
>website that make it even more difficult.
I downloaded NVDA and didn't understand how to use it.
Thunder so far has refused to even read Virgin Media's home page (and I
thought Thunder was supposed to be as good as JAWS etc) and I'm
beginning to wish I hadn't said anything about blasted accessibility.
I might just have to download Lunar (which at least I do use for
magnification) just to show him what it does.
Sincerely Chris
> One that has come to light recently is where several different pages
>all have the same set of links down the left side: this can be thought
>of a reassuring for a sighted person, so that they become familiar with
>the links as they move between different parts of the website - but in
>speech, which tends to speak the left column first if the page is built
>that way, you have to wait through them all every time you go to a new
>page. On the whole, speech output doesn't tend to have an effective
>"skip a bit" function. But that is just one example. Buttons with no
>Alt text is another, certainly anything like Flash, and many other things ...
--
burt henry
I fixed my problem with reading this group/it had to do with the way
options for down-loading msgs for off line use was configured it seems,
but menu wording is weird, or the config is buggy in the beta/think it
was the first. (no that doesn't mean much to many people) (just think
ing out loud(on screen))
As I said it just meant that I had to go on-line to google groups or the
like, and sift through msgs/several msgs were not being downloaded, and
the headers were not even showing up in my newsreader. I saw this the
first time in the digest the google sends me for this group.
On 10/31/2009 2:45 chela, chris mcmillan wrote:
> In message <hcf5k8$k1t$1...@news.albasani.net>, burt henry
> <burt1...@gmail.com> writes
>> Chris,
>> I read your posts on the e-mailed new posts that google groups sends
>> me for this group, but can't find either post relating to thunder with
>> t-bird.
> >
> I'm not using Thunderbird so that part of the message won't be meaning a
> thing to me Burt.
> >
>> and really don't know what it does that NVDA doesn't.
> >
> At the moment Thunder seems to only read what one is typing - and that's
> all I'm getting out of Narrator,
for the blind user narrator is mainly good for starting another
screenreader, maybe selecting an audio or video file to listen to, and
reading/writing plain txt files. You can do some other basic stuff, but
on-line, forget it.
well that and what's on one's desktop
> and just the url of web sites.
> >
>> If anyone can give me any reasons, or things they like about
>> thunder?...Why do you want to know about thunder and not NVDA, as NVDA
>> is free and easy to install?
> >
> Thunder is also free and easy to install - and it was available a long
> time before NVDA. I don't need NVDA all the time so its constant chatter
> is way over what I need.
I understand, but for a fully blind person they will need the chatter in
most cases. It like most other screenreaders can be muted, or the
computer's volume can be turned all the way down when you don't want it.
As I said, in my other post NVDA has passed thunder inrecognission I
think in almost every corner of the blind-comp world. Another FREE
alternative is screen access togo. Once you set up a pass word it is
available when you start your browser on--line, at least for IE. It
reads in a nicer voice than Sam, and some of the other sapi5 voices out
there, and like NVDA has many keys in common with JFW. As with any ap,
one will need to learn some hot keys to use it effectively as us blind
folks get little value out of a mouse most of the time, and looking
through menus with the arrows/listening to alot before choosing
something is slow. Webbie seems to be what is needed to work well on
But I've never seen an independent review of
> what it should do and have never managed to get it to do more than what
> Narrator does.
> >
>> Narrator has a terrible voice in winXP,
> >
> Its almost identical to Thunder and isn't bad at all. I gather that
> Narrator hasn't been improved one jot in Windows 7 (RNIB's NB magazine
> review Oct edition)
> >
>> As for "retyped txt? what kind of text?-line with thunder, but that is just what I have gathered from skimming the website.
> >
> I want to show someone who knows nothing about visual impairment how a
> speech program works, and as we need to make the church's web site
> accessible anyway, being able to run something simple and free would
> mean that in years to come we can simply teach the (almost certainly)
> older newly VI person how to access a site they have been using possibly
> for years.
>
> Chris
Great/don't give up on it! You are right that it would be nice for older
VI folks. God can be of great help in coming to terms with vission loss
for many, and a church community can be a good resource for people
losing many of their social structures/contacts. (another topic/another
group) Imbeded txt to speech is another option, and thinking on the fly
a podcast that could be recorded by your minister, and others used to
reading and talking in publlic. With webbie you get a easy to use
podcast program. That one I have had for only a few days, just started
using, and find it rather nice/super simple. Sure it works with
thunder, and I know it works with NVDA.
No time to proffread, so ...
Good luck
Burt
burt henry
more than many of the VI folks I run across on the web. B.H.
P.S.-I could not explain a magnifier ap for the life of me, so don't
feel bad
chris mcmillan
<burt1...@gmail.com> writes
>Chris, don't forget that I made John an honorary blind guy.
>
>
> He gets it more than many of the VI folks I run across on the web.
>
sighted and he has several friends who are totally blind who are well
versed in accessibility, and he actually understands computing anyway so
he's had good teaching.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
>In message <hcvgmu$bnp$1...@news.albasani.net>, burt henry
><burt1...@gmail.com> writes
>>Chris, don't forget that I made John an honorary blind guy.
>>
>:-)
>>
>> He gets it more than many of the VI folks I run across on the web.
>>
>So he should do. He's met me and my husband, though we're partially
>sighted and he has several friends who are totally blind who are well
>versed in accessibility, and he actually understands computing anyway
>so he's had good teaching.
. Thank you both of you! I don't think of you and Mike as blind, in that
you are still able to use a screen, with a moderate amount of
magnification. My blind friends are really the one couple in Newcastle,
whom I have known for twentysomething years, during which I have seen
the development of access technology for them - initially via a BBC
Master computer, initially having to spell everything out letter by
letter! Then an external phoneme-based synthesizer, then DOS, and
Windows. And yes, I have some knowledge of computing - I've been
interested in electronics since a boy, and have a good general broad
understanding: I don't have detailed computer skills in terms of
programming in advanced languages, but I have a general understanding of
what can - and can't (yet!) - be done. And I have some interest in help
for the hard of hearing too: one of the Newcastle couple has poor
hearing too, though nothing like the half of the couple of ladies for
whom I started this thread (she really can't hear enough to use it at
all, and I don't think she can lipread either).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **
Nudists are people who wear one button shirts
chris mcmillan
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <WaH3CvSu...@chris.mcmillan>, chris mcmillan
><spam...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>>In message <hcvgmu$bnp$1...@news.albasani.net>, burt henry
>><burt1...@gmail.com> writes
>>>Chris, don't forget that I made John an honorary blind guy.
>>>
>>:-)
>>>
>>> He gets it more than many of the VI folks I run across on the web.
>>>
>>So he should do. He's met me and my husband, though we're partially
>>sighted and he has several friends who are totally blind who are well
>>versed in accessibility, and he actually understands computing anyway
>>so he's had good teaching.
>[]
>. Thank you both of you! I don't think of you and Mike as blind, in
>that you are still able to use a screen, with a moderate amount of
>magnification.
>
a time had very poor reading sight. He wouldn't use speech but had the
huge computer screens that were costing mega-bucks then but which are
now becoming every day items. He was advised to learn Braille by another
sound engineer with no sight (now deceased) but he refused to be
coerced. He was lucky to get his sight back to the degree he has.
>
>And I have some interest in help for the hard of hearing too: one of
>the Newcastle couple has poor hearing too, though nothing like the half
>of the couple of ladies for whom I started this thread (she really
>can't hear enough to use it at all, and I don't think she can lipread
>either).
It would definitely be worth talking to the RNID, John.