Batamn: Gotham Nights looks horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rbailey
James wrote:
>
> I have to say that the preview pictures from the wizard mag
> of this new version are terrible.
Oh, come on now. They're not that bad. In fact they're rather good:
minimilist, direct, dynamic, and simple. And they're not that much of a
departure from the original series. Oh well, different strokes, as they
say....
> The villans are Ok except for poison
> ivy. She looks like her head was pumped up with hot air. She was sexier
> looking in the old series.
Well, you are right that she was much sexier in the original series.
However; the paler skin and more angular design gives her a much darker,
gothic look. She now looks like a much more deadly foe for bats to
contend with; if not a beautiful bombshell.
> Batman looks like a total dork and where the bloody hell is the yellow oval
> around his chest bat emblem?
While you had some valid points about Poison Ivy, I have to say you're
totally wrong about this one! Batman looks awesome! The new design
evokes the mystery and charisma of the golden age Batman (not to mention
the obvious traces of Frank Miller's dark knight). The yellow circle is
actually more dorky, and wasn't even included in the early comics. I
love the more practical pouches on the utility belt, too! Say what you
will about the other newly designed characters, but the new Batman
rules!!!
> Are the new story lines from the old batamn
> comics? I mean Come on! I know that there is a new robin, but his costume
> has ugly red pants, how is he supposed to swin around Gotham with Batamn
> and look like a clown instaed of a crime fighter?
I have little complaint about the new Robin's costume, but it does irk
me that he's twelve years old. First of all; if this new robin is
involved in combat, what kind of psycho is Batman; putting him in
danger? Second, what kind of use is a twelve year old kid in crime
fighting, and I mean intellectually or physically? I mean; it's not like
a pre-teenage punk can take on killer croc; and as far as operating the
bat computer, the kid probably still has those corny elementary school
science projects (you know, the ones with styrofoam balls).
Later,
SgtWalrus
James
I have to say that the preview pictures from the wizard mag
ivy. She looks like her head was pumped up with hot air. She was sexier
looking in the old series.
BatHead207
In article <33D080...@pacbell.net>, The ScriptPro 2000 System
<mcs...@pacbell.net> writes:
>Good gag lines aside, I always understood that Batman deliberately put
>the most protection (i.e. bulletproofing) behind the bat-symbol, then
>made it bright yellow so it would stand out and be the most obvious
>target for crooks, drawing gunfire away from... oh, say... his HEAD?!
>
>
Well thats how they rationalize it in the books anyway. However, like the
other guy, I suspect the real reason was marketing too.Someone else also
said the whole "new look" started by the addition of the yellow oval was a
sort of benchmark to indicate Julie Scwhartz's takeover of the bat-editor
chores. I suppose there's a little truth in all of those reasons.
<<AD!>>
Grim Reaper Casting
Maker of "Nasteez" Fantasy gaming miniatures
The ScriptPro 2000 System
Dsikula was bein' a mite bit sarcastic when he wrote:
Why did he add the yellow oval to the bat symbol? (Sounds like
the set-up to a joke...) It's easier to copyright a bat in a
yellow oval than it is to copyright just a stylized bat.
Good gag lines aside, I always understood that Batman deliberately put
the most protection (i.e. bulletproofing) behind the bat-symbol, then
made it bright yellow so it would stand out and be the most obvious
target for crooks, drawing gunfire away from... oh, say... his HEAD?!
Drew
POISONVILLE, LTD.
http://www.pacificnet.net/~noname/
"The court of my reason was disarmed all the time being thru the film.
And after finishing this film, I can't find where is my rational
judgement." - NATURAL BORN KILLERS review on the Internet, of Korean
origin.
Franknseus
>? I mean Come on! I know that there is a new robin, but his costume
>has ugly red pants, how is he supposed to swin around Gotham with Batamn
>and look like a clown instaed of a crime fighter?
Hey, it's bad enough that movie fans who aren't into Batman have to
insist on changing the Robin costume for the movies into a dark colored
rubber thing. But the animated series tries to be closer to the spirit of
the comics. If Robin looks like a clown to you, then so be it. That's how
the character dresses. Batman wears a Batman costume, Robin wears a Robin
costume.
Perhaps Superman should get rid of that silly red cape, because why
would he need it?
Bryan Frankenseuss Theiss
-----------------------------------------
Deadly Snake and Crane Guitars of the Buckethead Clan
http://192.211.16.13/individuals/tdorm/BucketheadMain.html
DM Matt
>I have to say that the preview pictures from the wizard mag
>of this new version are terrible. The villans are Ok except for poison
>ivy. She looks like her head was pumped up with hot air. She was sexier
>looking in the old series.
>Batman looks like a total dork and where the bloody hell is the yellow
oval
>around his chest bat emblem? Are the new story lines from the old batamn
costume
>has ugly red pants, how is he supposed to swin around Gotham with Batamn
>and look like a clown instaed of a crime fighter?
>
>
>
Maybe Schumucker got his hands on the animated series too.....God forbid-
Lotsmore
>
> Schumacher didn't actually get his hands on the animated series, but he
> did have an indirect effect on it. WB was expecting BATMAN & ROBIN to be
> a huge hit, and they wanted the animated series to reflect it. They
> really wanted to eliminate every ounce of darkness from the Batman
> mythos, (by some miracle the people that make the show said that
> they've managed to actually make Batman darker, which is good
> considering the rest of the show). By the time the movie bombed it was
> too late. The new episodes had already been made. Gone is the
> beautifully detailed, almost Anime-like dark Gotham that was crawling
> with gangsters and seedy underworld types. The animation has been
> simplified and is, IMHO, of lower quality. Now the new animated series
> will focus almost exclusively on Batman fighting supervillains in weird
> settings (much like B&R with Mr. Freeze and the "hockey team from hell"),
> since the old series was "too dark for kids". Batgirl will appear in
> every episode (and fight alongside Batman), as mandated by WB, who
> expected Batgirl to become THE superheroine of the 21st century.
> Superman and Batman will also team up, as mandated by WB (with a lot of
> fan support, I must add). Actually, the Supes and Bats episode sounds
> really cool from what I've heard of it (Bruce Wayne hits on Lois Lane and
> POs Clark Kent. Now that's a story in and of itself.). Robin will be 12
> yr. old Tim Drake, with basically Jason Todd's origin and a really
> annoying costume because "kids like weird". Scarecrow is supposed to
> look much better, although I haven't seen him yet. Good to see
> Nightwing, though I don't know why they felt the need to make him
> independently wealthy from a law suit. I like the fact that they've cut
> back on Batman's dialog to mostly short sentences. One of the things
> that slightly peeved me was when Batman would give these longwinded
> monologues in the middle of a fight. He didn't do it often, but it was
> annoying to me nonetheless.
Where did you read this? The internet, magazine? I'm getting worried
now. I thought Gotham Knights would actually be darker after looking at
the new character sketches. We'll always have the comic i guess...
Franknseus
>They
>really wanted to eliminate every ounce of darkness from the Batman
>mythos, (by some miracle the people that make the show said that
>they've managed to actually make Batman darker, which is good
>considering the rest of the show). By the time the movie bombed it was
>too late. The new episodes had already been made. Gone is the
>beautifully detailed, almost Anime-like dark Gotham that was crawling
>with gangsters and seedy underworld types. The animation has been
>simplified and is, IMHO, of lower quality.
Now wait a minute - first of all, have you really seen what the
animation looks like, or do you just mean you don't like the drawings in
Wizard? Secondly, would you not agree that in the Wizard article and
elsewhere it is made clear that the new look was Bruce Timm's idea and not
WB's? Everything I've read says that Bruce Timm didn't want to do new
episodes unless he could incorporate design techniques he learned from
doing Superman.
Personally, I think one of the strengths of B:TAS has always been it's
simple designs - its *implied* detail. Making them simpler, to me, doesn't
sound like a bad thing, but the drawings in Wizard don't look any simpler
to me, just slightly streamlined and in some cases made more stylized.
>Now the new animated series
>will focus almost exclusively on Batman fighting supervillains in weird
>settings (much like B&R with Mr. Freeze and the "hockey team from hell"),
>since the old series was "too dark for kids".
Again, the articles gave me the impression that this was the producers'
idea. Not that it is "too dark" but that costumed characters appeal to
kids more than gangsters and such. Personally, I am very sad to see those
stories go since the variety is another one of B:TAS's strengths, but I
can't imagine it ruining the show since most of my favorite episodes are
about the less realistic characters (Clayface, Baby Doll etc.)
>Superman and Batman will also team up, as mandated by WB (with a lot of
>fan support, I must add).
Was this really mandated by WB? This has been the idea since long before
SUPERMAN even started - that the second season would have a team-up with
Batman. It was more exciting then since there were no plans for new Batman
episodes. This is completely unrelated to the changes in the new episodes
because it was in the works long before the new episodes were even a
possibility.
> Robin will be 12
>yr. old Tim Drake, with basically Jason Todd's origin and a really
>annoying costume because "kids like weird".
How is the costume "annoying" or "weird"? It's just the Tim Drake
costume, except with red tights instead of green (I'm not sure why). In
other words, it's the same as the previous animated Robin's costume except
with red tights.
> Good to see
>Nightwing, though I don't know why they felt the need to make him
>independently wealthy from a law suit.
I think it's a great idea. It makes him independent from Batman while
still having funding for his crimefighting. It's also a clever and
realistic way for him to get the money.
I have high hopes for the new episodes. They are, after all, made by the
same people who have not let me down since the one or two duds in the
first season ("There's a Batman in My Basement") which weren't even that
bad when compared to every other super hero show on television.
Bruce
Franknseus wrote:
>
> >They
> >really wanted to eliminate every ounce of darkness from the Batman
> >mythos, (by some miracle the people that make the show said that
> >they've managed to actually make Batman darker, which is good
> >considering the rest of the show). By the time the movie bombed it was
> >too late. The new episodes had already been made. Gone is the
> >beautifully detailed, almost Anime-like dark Gotham that was crawling
> >with gangsters and seedy underworld types. The animation has been
> >simplified and is, IMHO, of lower quality.
>
> Now wait a minute - first of all, have you really seen what the
> animation looks like, or do you just mean you don't like the drawings in
> Wizard?
I've seen other artitcles and pictures of it, as well as stills from the
series.
> Secondly, would you not agree that in the Wizard article and
> elsewhere it is made clear that the new look was Bruce Timm's idea and not
> WB's?
I didn't say that the new animation style was WB's idea. It is obviously
Bruce Timm's. I just prefered the better proportion and better defined
shapes of the old animated series to the newer and simplified version.
> Everything I've read says that Bruce Timm didn't want to do new
> episodes unless he could incorporate design techniques he learned from
> doing Superman.
I hadn't read any of that. I could understand why he would want to keep
it simple. It's much harder to work with the rather precise linework of
the old series as compared to the looser style of this one.
> Personally, I think one of the strengths of B:TAS has always been it's
> simple designs - its *implied* detail. Making them simpler, to me, doesn't
> sound like a bad thing, but the drawings in Wizard don't look any simpler
> to me, just slightly streamlined and in some cases made more stylized.
I just don't like the way they stylized it, and they do look simpler.
The crisp forms and excellent figure design have been junked in favor of
a much easier to draw style. I prefered the dark backgrounds, with all
the shadows. There aren't that many anymore.
> >Now the new animated series
> >will focus almost exclusively on Batman fighting supervillains in weird
> >settings (much like B&R with Mr. Freeze and the "hockey team from hell"),
>
> >since the old series was "too dark for kids".
>
> Again, the articles gave me the impression that this was the producers'
> idea. Not that it is "too dark" but that costumed characters appeal to
> kids more than gangsters and such.
I think that the people at WBs think that the old series was too dark
(as evidenced by the constant barrage of greivances from parents), and
that kids prefer supervillains (which is what they liked about BATMAN &
ROBIN, BTW). I got the impression that this was WB's idea, and that
they've bullied the producers into taking credit for it. They haven't
had one negative thing to say about WB in any interview, and that just
strikes me as odd. They always had a few complaints about Fox, even when
things were going well.
> Personally, I am very sad to see those
> stories go since the variety is another one of B:TAS's strengths, but I
> can't imagine it ruining the show since most of my favorite episodes are
> about the less realistic characters (Clayface, Baby Doll etc.)
I always prefered the stories that involved Two-Face and the mobsters.
They just gave the series a little more credibility, since they were more
believable villains. I will miss the variety as well.
> >Superman and Batman will also team up, as mandated by WB (with a lot of
> >fan support, I must add).
>
> Was this really mandated by WB? This has been the idea since long before
> SUPERMAN even started - that the second season would have a team-up with
> Batman. It was more exciting then since there were no plans for new Batman
> episodes. This is completely unrelated to the changes in the new episodes
> because it was in the works long before the new episodes were even a
> possibility.
It had been talked about, and finally WB stepped in with an attitude
something like "do it now or else". I personally look forward to the
episode.
> > Robin will be 12
> >yr. old Tim Drake, with basically Jason Todd's origin and a really
> >annoying costume because "kids like weird".
>
> How is the costume "annoying" or "weird"? It's just the Tim Drake
> costume, except with red tights instead of green (I'm not sure why). In
> other words, it's the same as the previous animated Robin's costume except
> with red tights.
The costume isn't all that annoying (I do miss the green. This costume
just doesn't look right. Why did they eliminate the green?), but the
design of Robin is annoying. Take a good look. The hair and the fact
that he looks unbelievably shrimp-like (even for a 12 year old) are
almost painful to look at.
> > Good to see
> >Nightwing, though I don't know why they felt the need to make him
> >independently wealthy from a law suit.
>
> I think it's a great idea. It makes him independent from Batman while
> still having funding for his crimefighting. It's also a clever and
> realistic way for him to get the money.
I don't think it was a bad idea to make him wealthy, but I would have
prefered to see him earn it (like maybe patent an invention, or
something) rather than have it handed to him from a legal settlement.
> I have high hopes for the new episodes. They are, after all, made by the
> same people who have not let me down since the one or two duds in the
> first season ("There's a Batman in My Basement") which weren't even that
> bad when compared to every other super hero show on television.
We have to agree on this one. I hope the new series surprises me. I
loved the old one, with the exception of about 6 episodes throughout its
run.
Bruce
Schumacher didn't actually get his hands on the animated series, but he
did have an indirect effect on it. WB was expecting BATMAN & ROBIN to be
a huge hit, and they wanted the animated series to reflect it. They
really wanted to eliminate every ounce of darkness from the Batman
mythos, (by some miracle the people that make the show said that
they've managed to actually make Batman darker, which is good
considering the rest of the show). By the time the movie bombed it was
too late. The new episodes had already been made. Gone is the
beautifully detailed, almost Anime-like dark Gotham that was crawling
with gangsters and seedy underworld types. The animation has been
simplified and is, IMHO, of lower quality. Now the new animated series
will focus almost exclusively on Batman fighting supervillains in weird
settings (much like B&R with Mr. Freeze and the "hockey team from hell"),
since the old series was "too dark for kids". Batgirl will appear in
every episode (and fight alongside Batman), as mandated by WB, who
expected Batgirl to become THE superheroine of the 21st century.
Superman and Batman will also team up, as mandated by WB (with a lot of
fan support, I must add). Actually, the Supes and Bats episode sounds
really cool from what I've heard of it (Bruce Wayne hits on Lois Lane and
POs Clark Kent. Now that's a story in and of itself.). Robin will be 12
yr. old Tim Drake, with basically Jason Todd's origin and a really
annoying costume because "kids like weird". Scarecrow is supposed to
look much better, although I haven't seen him yet. Good to see
Nightwing, though I don't know why they felt the need to make him
Franknseus
>I hadn't read any of that. I could understand why he would want to keep
>it simple. It's much harder to work with the rather precise linework of
>the old series as compared to the looser style of this one.
Hmmm... that's not the impression I get from the drawings in Wizard. I
prefer precise linework as well, but these designs don't look any looser
to me.
>I prefered the dark backgrounds, with all
>the shadows. There aren't that many anymore.
Where did you hear that?
Anyway, all of this criticism of the new designs shows how many people
care about this show. I hope everyone will give it a chance and if it's as
good as I think it will be, I hope people will continue to enjoy it.