Captain Britain
Frazer Irving
thee to The Voice Of Fate)...
>
> Hopefully we'll see a nice black & white (or at least coloured by
> someone competent) trade paperback of it all, send an e-mail to Joe
> Quesada and Marvel now!
Seconded. and thirded, and so on. we must have this book NNNOOOOOWWWWWWWW
F
--
frazer alex irving
http://www.frazerirving.com
Scott
kid, and the art still looks good. Was Moore before this run, I assume? I'd
love to check that out.
"Drunken maria, don't sleep. Sleepy Maria, don't drink!"
-The Monks
Newscomedy
but also a story for Epic.
His ire with Marvel was caused by their stance on the use of the name
"Marvelman" more, I think, than their position on Kirby's art. I could be
wrong. Just ask Blackhawk Kid...
TK-421
<garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:
>On 30 Oct 2000 23:41:29 GMT, lug...@aol.comZowie (Scott) wrote:
>
>>I've got an old TPB of Captain Britain by Davis & Delano which I liked as a
>>kid, and the art still looks good. Was Moore before this run, I assume? I'd
>>love to check that out.
>
>Moore was first, yes. His stories were delayed from being reprinted
>thanks to his dislike of Marvel and their policies. The Delano/Davis
>stuff is pretty good but Moore's story is just total class. Why some
>half-arsed hack hasn't tried to revive The Fury I have no idea since
>he's one of the most genuinely frightening villains I've ever read in
>a spandex comic.
>
>The funny thing is thatt this story which is barely 6 typical US
>issues long (UK stories are more traditionaly much shorter 6-10 pages
>per episode) that so much of it has been plundered by Marvel.
>Saturnyne, Roma, Gatecrasher's Technet (the new Special Executive),
>Psylocke, Otherworld, Meggan, Jim Jaspers have all been used in X-Men
>comics covering about 70 episodes of Moore's CB in page terms.
>
>The fact that they've never stolen The Fury surprises me but I;m
>rather glad since nobody else could have written him that well. Saying
>that with Grant Morrison on the X-Men.....
>
>
>Cheers Drive!
>
>Gareth
Chris Claremont was goint to do something with the fury in X-Men but
Alan Moore put a stop to it... Here's the story according to Phil
Hall...
Rich J:
> Phil, I've wondered... did this involve the use of his characters in
> X-Men at all? It always looked to me like Jaspers was being set up
> for the Fall Of The Mutants with the Adversary put in instead... FOTM
> had Roma in after all...
Oooh, big can of worms... Now as most people know, Alan fell out with Marvel over the reprinting of Doctor Who strips in the US Doctor Who editions. Marvel didn't have a reprint royalties set up and Alan wasn't happy about this. With the rift there and widening, Chris Claremont, who was unaware of the political problems brewing, introduced Sir James Jaspers into Uncanny X-Men #200. His intention was to slowly have the character infiltrate and eventually have a Jaspers' Warp in this reality (wasn't it retconned out of regular existence by Alan Davis? I can't remember) with the X-teams as the main thrust in the line-spanning story. Alan went (so I've been told) ballistic over the Jaspers appearance and effectively severed any chance of a reconcilliation. Now, this is where I get a bit hazy for a while because while I know what I was told, I'm not sure about the legal implications: there is apparently a glaring difference between US and UK copyright laws and Marvel's lawyers allegedly
recommended to Marvel that they basically ignore Moore's creations and story ideas. The legalise would eventually cost Marvel a lot of money and wasted time and the upshot was they dumped the X-Men: Jaspers' Warp idea.
An old acquaintance of mine interviewed John Romita Jr in FP Birmingham back in 1985 or 6 for his fanzine KOOKS and JrJr said that he was "really looking forward to playing with some of the cool characters that Alans Moore and Davis had created for the Captain Britain strip. Now quite amazingly, Claremont had intentions of not only introducing Jaspers, but also the Fury (which at one point was firmly on the cards as Alan Davis and Mike Collins had basically resurrected the Fury in Sid's Story and there was more of a haze around the characters ownership - Mr C might be able to offer more on this) and the Special Executive. We all know that the SE became the Technet, but what happened to the Fury? (More later)
Romita also said that there would be hints and beginnings of subplots in many of the other Marvel comics, I was out of the loop at the time, but perhaps others noticed odd things happening in their Marvels during 1986. I have also heard that Marvel insisted on a reference to the Jaspers Warp in a post Moore Captain Britain (I think this was Mike Collins' Sid's Story) and there was also a mention (retconning?) of the Jaspers' Warp in an early issue of Excalibur (Kylun?) - sorry it's been ages since I read them and there all in the other loft.
Then Claremont became privy to all the politicking and immediately rewrote his impending blockbuster and subsequently what Romita hinted might have been the equivelant of a Marvel Crisis (hot on the heels of the real one) was laid to rest.
Now, in 1990ish, while I was starting to put what was never my fourth issue of Mutant Media together, I stumbled across a lot of stuff about Claremont's and Marvel's plans. I was putting together a column called something along the lines of Hypotheticals: What might have happened in Alan Moore's Marvel Universe. Corrin probably has a better memory than me, I haven't got an issue to hand, but we did toy with the concept in issue #3 I think.
From what I can remember, the Marvel Jaspers' warp storyline was to have begun in #200 of X-Men. Jim Jasper was introduced as a bad lad (English, of course) and the only person on the face of the planet capable of stopping him instantly, Charles Xavier is exiled back to space because his cloned body is packing up. The issues went very much the way they were planned to for six months, but then changes were made, but originally, from what I gathered, Nimrod, the futuristic sentinel, living as a Hispanic good bloke in the ghetto was to have stumbled upon the remains of an entity that enters our reality through a hole in the STC. Nimrod accidently merges with the Fury and becomes not only indestructible, but very, very, very, smart and eloquent. "Doc Doom times a googleplex" was one of the lines I read. Essentially from this point on, you'll see what did happen in between the cracks of what didn't:
Romita was leaving the book, so Alan Davis was asked to do it. He declined because of the restrictions that were becoming apparent even this early. He also didn't really want the gig at the time. The Mutant Massacre was to have been commited solely by the Nimrod/Fury hybrid. He is eventually only stopped by Kitty phasing through him and disrupting his circuits. However, Kitty, Nightcrawler, Colossus AND a new character Longshot, were to have been relocated to Muir Island to work with Captain Britain and his team and for medical attention. Kitty was always going to be critically injured, as was Nightcrawler. Colossus was sent as protection and as a perfect foil for Brian Braddock, who Kitty would develop a crush on.
Mutants, good bad or indifferent began flocking to Xavier's and with Phoenix II conveniently out of the way and Kitty and Braddock in Scotland, there were no members to see the parallels with Days of Future Past or with the Jaspers' Warp. America was in the thralls (throes :-P) of mutant hysteria and Magneto now in charge of the X-Men has to make some decisions that effect the status quo. Allegiances are formed with villains and new players, such as Mr Sinister and others were becoming prominent mutants through their covert ways.
The UN decrees that mutants are a menace and Jaspers meets Nimrod and subsequently becomes aware he too is a mutant and a pretty powerful one. Unlike the Jaspers' Warp, these two become allies, or at least that is what Jaspers' thinks. With reality falling apart and Nimrod culling mutants, Forge is drawn into battle and what happened in Fall of the Mutants is essentially what was written, except the big fight scene was different and the denouement was different. Instead of being impervious to detection, the mutants who ventured into the Seige Perilous were returned but with the warps they had undergone (some of this was used in Inferno as well, proving that writers who can't use something here will use it there). The X-Men was going to be a much darker comic and Excalibur the light side. X-Factor and New Mutants would essentially begin to pick up the pieces and rebuild mutant/human relations.
And that's all I can remember for those of you still awake now
:-)
----------------------------------
http://run.to/valhalla
http://marvelman.webjump.com
http://marvel-universe.webjump.com
TK-421
wrote:
There was also an incident of Marvel US reprinting one of Moore's Dr
Who stories without permission, after tghat he refused to let them
reprint any of his other work ever again. Until it was pointed out to
him some years later that Alan Davis and Dave Thorpe were being
deprived of potential royalties on the CB reprints. Alan apparently
had no idea that there was any real demand for them and just hadn't
thought it was an issue.
TK-421
jaye...@my-deja.com
> I've got an old TPB of Captain Britain by Davis & Delano
> which I liked as a kid, and the art still looks good. Was
> Moore before this run, I assume?
Yes. There was a "revival" of the character 1981 in MARVEL
SUPERHEROES MONTHLY that was originally by Dave Thorpe and
Alan Davis. After nine issues under Thorpe, Moore took over.
Three issues later, the feature was moved over to a new book,
THE DAREDEVILS (which also featured reprints of Miller's DD)
after a gap of a few months. When that title bit the dust
after 11 issues, the CB feature moved yet again, to THE
MIGHTY WORLD OF MARVEL MONTHLY, starting with #7. Moore's
last issue was #13. After three more issues with fill-in
writers, the feature moved once more, this time to its own
title: CAPTAIN BRITAIN MONTHLY, under Jamie Delano and Davis.
This lasted 10 issues.
The TPB you mention contains the CB stories from MWOMM #14-16
and CBM #1-10. The Thorpe/Davis and Moore/Davis stories were
reprinted by Marvel-US in a 7-issue limited series called
THE X-MEN ARCHIVES FEATURING CAPTAIN BRITAIN.
--- jayembee (Jerry.B...@eds.com)
"You say that you want to go back to this place, Earth. A
place that you tell me has so much disease and suffering."
"Well, you guys don't have chocolate."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Frazer Irving
thee to The Voice Of Fate)...
> The TPB you mention contains the CB stories from MWOMM #14-16
> and CBM #1-10. The Thorpe/Davis and Moore/Davis stories were
> reprinted by Marvel-US in a 7-issue limited series called
> THE X-MEN ARCHIVES FEATURING CAPTAIN BRITAIN.
my word. they reprinted them. O my...
Like, how long ago and what do ye reckon the chances of picking up a copy
are?
I never got to read the end of that set of stories...
jaye...@my-deja.com
> Garjones <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:
>> The funny thing is thatt this story which is barely 6
>> typical US issues long (UK stories are more traditionaly
>> much shorter 6-10 pages per episode) that so much of it
>> has been plundered by Marvel. Saturnyne, Roma, Gatecrasher's
>> Technet (the new Special Executive), Psylocke, Otherworld,
>> Meggan, Jim Jaspers have all been used in X-Men comics
>> covering about 70 episodes of Moore's CB in page terms.
Let's be fair. Of those...
(1) Roma and Otherword had appeared before the Moore/Davis
run -- originating in the Black Knight strip (co-starring
Captain Britain) in HULK COMIC WEEKLY.
(2) IIRC, Jim Jaspers was created by Dave Thorpe and Alan
> Davis, just before Moore took over the CB strip.
(3) Psylocke was, technically, created by Claremont in two
respects: he introduced Betsy Braddock in the original
CAPTAIN BRITAIN WEEKLY, and he (and Davis) created the
"Psylocke" identity. Saturnyne and Gatecrasher's Technet
were co-created by Moore and Davis, and were introduced
into the mainstream Marvel Universe in the first Excalibur
one-shot, by Claremont and Davis. One could argue that
Davis was exercising his co-creator rights there.
Niclas Siljedahl
Garjones <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> :
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:oll00t06nc9mv2bbg...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:39:24 +0000, Frazer Irving
> <fra...@frazerirving.com> wrote:
>
> >> The Thorpe/Davis and Moore/Davis stories were
> >> reprinted by Marvel-US in a 7-issue limited series called
> >> THE X-MEN ARCHIVES FEATURING CAPTAIN BRITAIN.
> >
> >are?
> It was only reprinted about a year or two ago Frazer.
More like five years ago. July, 1995 thru Jan, 1996. Which is when I bought
them. You should have, too. :-)
--
/niclas
[Now I'm A Poorly Updated Dynamo: http://home.swipnet.se/dynamo]
Scott
written by Alan Moore? I don't know how the heck this passed me by.
Newscomedy
>written by Alan Moore? I don't know how the heck this passed me by.
ANY Alan Moore fan interested in finding any of his work owes it to himself or
herself to check out the bibliography at alanmoorefansite.com!
Kevin J. Maroney
>Is this series, "THE X-MEN ARCHIVES FEATURING CAPTAIN BRITAIN." entirely
>written by Alan Moore? I don't know how the heck this passed me by.
The first issue is written by Dave Thorpe. It is, alas, awful, a fact
which is alluded to in Alan Davis's afterword to the first issue,
"Wait! It Gets Better!"
The material in the second through seventh issues is written by Moore.
It's dynamite.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | Unplugged Games | kmar...@ungames.com
Games are my entire waking life
Kevin J. Maroney
>Oh yes, I'm fine with them using them, Marvel work is for hire and the
>characters were as fair game as any others especially as Claremont and
>Davis had co-created a lot of the Captain's mythos.
The problem is that Marvel UK's contracts were apparently badly
written, and in fact the copyright on the Moore/Davis Captain Britain
stories is shared equally among Moore, Davis, and Marvel. This is how
Moore blocked the reprint for so many years--Marvel didn't have the
legal right to reprint the material without Moore's okay, and he
wouldn't give it because of his distaste for Marvel. He eventually
relented as a favor and friendship gesture to Alan Davis.
Kevin J. Maroney
>> THE X-MEN ARCHIVES FEATURING CAPTAIN BRITAIN.
>my word. they reprinted them. O my...
>Like, how long ago and what do ye reckon the chances of picking up a copy
>are?
It could take you a while, but the issues are out there. #1 is very
hard to find, because it was under-ordered by retailers--Marvel didn't
mention in the solicitation for #1 that #2-7 were by Alan Moore. (It
took me over four years to find a copy of #1. It only cost me cover
price, but the copies simply aren't out there.)
Kevin J. Maroney
>CAPTAIN BRITAIN MONTHLY, under Jamie Delano and Davis.
>This lasted 10 issues.
14, actually.
The Renaissance Man
Went looking for Moore's CB, and found a long run by Jamie Delano,
were Moore's after, before?
Many hearty thank-you's to whoever can provide issue #'s...
--
Chris Davis
The Renaissance Man
www.renaissance-man.com
Kevin J. Maroney
>Am horribly confusticated!
Not surprising. It's a confusing situation.
>Went looking for Moore's CB, and found a long run by Jamie Delano,
>were Moore's after, before?
After.
As Jerry Boyajian said, the Moore CBs appeared in three Marvel UK
magazines--_Marvel Superheroes Monthly_, _The Daredevils_, and _Mighty
World of Marvel Weekly_.
All of the Moore stories, plus some written by Dave Thorpe, were
reprinted in color by Marvel US as _X-Men Archives Present Captain
Britain_, a seven-issue miniseries in 1995 and 1996.
After Moore left, Alan Davis wrote three CB stories in _Mighty World
of Marvel_. Then Jamie Delano wrote 14 issues of _Captain Britain_
magazine, a monthly. The Davis- and Delano-written stories are all
reprinted in the _Captain Britain_ tpb.
All of the comics mentioned in this post were drawn by Alan Davis.
They also all form a more-or-less continuous narrative--which is not
to say that they are a single story, but the stories in the _Captain
Britain_ tpb follows immediately after the stories in the _X-Men
Archives_ series.
Some time after the end of the _Captain Britain_ magazine, Davis and
Chris Claremont created _Excaliber_, which initially featured CB and
Meggan, one of the characters introduced during Moore's CB stories. I
think that _Excaliber_ is pretty weak overall, but there are some good
moments.
So, for the American collector, the sequence is:
_X-Men Archives Present Captain Britain_
_Captain Britain_ tpb
_Excaliber_
Trying to collect the Marvel UK editions is a challenge for the
serious Alan Moore fan. There's good material in there--Night Raven
short stories, a very funny parody of Frank Miller's _Daredevil_, and
so forth--but the best material is the CB stuff.
The Renaissance Man
Thanks!
cd
"Kevin J. Maroney" <kmar...@ungames.com> wrote in message
news:n5a10tsodpcuirkoe...@4ax.com...
TK-421
> CAPTAIN BRITAIN MONTHLY, under Jamie Delano and Davis.
>This lasted 10 issues.
14 actually, the last 2 or 3 were written by Davis
jaye...@my-deja.com
> The problem is that Marvel UK's contracts were apparently
> badly written, and in fact the copyright on the Moore/Davis
> Captain Britain stories is shared equally among Moore,
> Davis, and Marvel. This is how Moore blocked the reprint
> for so many years--Marvel didn't have the legal right to
> reprint the material without Moore's okay, and he wouldn't
> give it because of his distaste for Marvel. He eventually
> relented as a favor and friendship gesture to Alan Davis.
In fact, as I recall, this brouhaha caused a rift between
Moore and Davis, which caused Davis to rid himself of his
part ownership of Miracleman. Moore's allowing the CB
reprints were supposedly part of a kiss-and-make-up gesture.
Nick
Britain (the last bit is important - there are more X-men Archives,
1-4 will get you a few X-men New Mutants reprints if you aren't
careful) 1,2 and 4....
I managed to order 3,5,6 & 7 from www.alanmoorefansite.com but the
sales part of this site seems to have gone somewhat pear-shaped lately
Happy hunting!
Nick
On Thu, 02 Nov 2000 00:50:29 +0000, TK-421 <paul...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
TK-421
planet warehouse (formerly comics warehouse) had some in their last
catalogue for 40p each
jaye...@my-deja.com
> As Jerry Boyajian said, the Moore CBs appeared in three
> Marvel UK magazines--_Marvel Superheroes Monthly_, _The
> Daredevils_, and _Mighty World of Marvel Weekly_.
MWOM Monthly.
> After Moore left, Alan Davis wrote three CB stories in
> _Mighty World of Marvel_.
Davis plotted all three, but scripted only one. Another was
scripted by Mike Collins, and the other by...damn...Steve
Craddock?
(Had to get you back for correcting me on the number of issues
there were of CAPTAIN BRITAIN... :-))
jaye...@my-deja.com
> jaye...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> CAPTAIN BRITAIN MONTHLY, under Jamie Delano and Davis.
>> This lasted 10 issues.
> 14 actually, the last 2 or 3 were written by Davis
Quite. I don't know why I have it in my head that this went
only 10 issues. This isn't the first time I've made this
error.
Kevin J. Maroney
>Davis plotted all three, but scripted only one. Another was
>scripted by Mike Collins, and the other by...damn...Steve
>Craddock?
>
>(Had to get you back for correcting me on the number of issues
>there were of CAPTAIN BRITAIN... :-))
Only fair. :-)
You were right about the authors/scripters of the _Mighty World of
Marvel_ stories--Craddock, Davis, Collins in 14, 15, 16 respectively.
The last two issues of _Captain Britain Monthly_ (13 & 14) were
scripted by Alan Davis, as TK-421 pointed out.
Newscomedy
>my CBMonthly Index handy...),
What is this, please?
jaye...@my-deja.com
>> (damn, I wish I had my CBMonthly Index handy...),
> What is this, please?
When I (briefly) a member of APA-I (the comics indexers APA)
'round about 10 years ago, I did issue/creator/feature
indexes for both WARRIOR and CAPTAIN BRITAIN MONTHLY. I
don't have them handy because they're on a back-up tape
somewhere at home. I suppose I can dig out a hardcopy at
home (I have a copy filed in the box with the comics
themselves), too.
Newscomedy
>When I (briefly) a member of APA-I (the comics indexers APA)
>'round about 10 years ago,
Wow! I'd never heard of this! What has happened to all that wonderful, juicy,
indexed information? Is it now on the comicbookdatabase?
jaye...@my-deja.com
Good question. Probably. To be honest, I haven't taken the
time to examine the CBDb more than cursorily. I think at
least some of the APA-Iers are contributing to it, though,
like Jerry Bails.
TK-421
<kmar...@ungames.com> wrote:
>jaye...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>Davis plotted all three, but scripted only one. Another was
>>scripted by Mike Collins, and the other by...damn...Steve
>>Craddock?
>>
>>(Had to get you back for correcting me on the number of issues
>>there were of CAPTAIN BRITAIN... :-))
>
>Only fair. :-)
>
>You were right about the authors/scripters of the _Mighty World of
>Marvel_ stories--Craddock, Davis, Collins in 14, 15, 16 respectively.
>
>The last two issues of _Captain Britain Monthly_ (13 & 14) were
>scripted by Alan Davis, as TK-421 pointed out.
Mike collins also wrote "Sid's Story" in CB #4 or 5, not cetain off
the top of my head.
jaye...@my-deja.com
> Mike collins also wrote "Sid's Story" in CB #4 or 5,
> not cetain off the top of my head.
I'm pretty sure it was #4.
Of course, there are also the Grant Morrison stories therein.
If I recall correctly, he wrote the "Captain Granbretan"
prose story that was in...#8?...and it seems to me that he
wrote something else in there somewhere (damn, I wish I had
my CBMonthly Index handy...),
TK-421
>TK-421 (who really should be at his post) wrote:
>
>> Mike collins also wrote "Sid's Story" in CB #4 or 5,
>> not cetain off the top of my head.
>
>I'm pretty sure it was #4.
>
>Of course, there are also the Grant Morrison stories therein.
>If I recall correctly, he wrote the "Captain Granbretan"
>prose story that was in...#8?...and it seems to me that he
>wrote something else in there somewhere (damn, I wish I had
>my CBMonthly Index handy...),
>
Captain Granbretan was the only Grant Morrison contribution, I think
it was in #10, replacing Jamie Delano's Night Raven text story which
ended in the previous issue and which had, following the cancellation
of Savage Sword of Conan, replaced a series of text stories in CB.
Mike Collins & Mark Farmer also collaborated on the Cb spin-off backup
feature "The Cherubim" in #11-14
Sir Deuce
actually an annual for New Mutants in which Mojo kidnaps CB's sis and
gives her android eyes. This ties into her blindness caused in the TPB.
I believe that soon after she joined the X-Men as Psyloche, before
turning asian. 8-)
"Be Generous...True...Just" ROBBY
> http://profiles.yahoo.com/sutsuj
> http://www.Robert.Justus.org
medi...@my-deja.com
(plus the pertinent interview quotes from kcup--and I thought AM didn't
do that many interviews!). I'm really very surprised Marvel hasn't
jumped on the bandwagon of certain key writers like Moore and made
*everything* they did available in tpb. Admittedly, his only other
Marvel work is that section of "Heroes for Hire" and the story in that
"Epic" mag., but why not cash in? They've also been doing some very
affordable trade ppbks lately, so we can be certain it would affordable
(unlike the wallet-draining DC hardback archives).
To illustrate that Moore isn't the only name they've neglected, Warren
Ellis (who shows distinct influences of AM--besides his specific
"Watchmen" homage in an issue of "Stormwatch"). There are a number of
things Ellis did for the company that are worth reprinting in some sort
of trade format, and very few have appeared (just the items that
featured major Marvel characters, like Thor and Wolverine). I thought
that the X-merchandising machine was always cranking--thus it's really
weird to see things like Moore and Ellis's related titles go
uncollected.
Just my two cents...
Ed
Chip
> is very poor and it's his first priority to fix it.
Joe's first priority was Spider-Man. He got Axel Alonso to take care of
that. His second priority is the X-franchise, and he's fixing it up as we
speak.
I hope the TPB situation is his third priority. Some of that Marvel Knights
stuff would look better collected.
-- chip
Mikel Midnight
<garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:
> Well what was his first and second choices was debatable, the TBP
> thing is a much longer term fix anyway but he has claimed he's
> committed to it. What he has done is say he'll do it so we may see
> some Moore stuff coming and, of course we may not.
I personally would love to see a collection of Chaykin's work,
particularly the color painted Dominic Fortune stories. But that's
just me ;)
Btw, Captain Britain fans, I now have an Earth-238 timeline on my
website. http://www.best.com/~blaklion/timeline238.html
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor" Mikel Midnight
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
blak...@best.com
______________________________________http://www.best.com/~blaklion/comics.html
room...@gmail.com
Also, would the Fury or Nimrod be the ascendant personality after the merging?