Previews Catalogue, Portrait of Mutant & Titan over-charging *again*
Graeme
Portrait of A Mutant".
Yeah, yeah, old news by now.
But I'm trying to work out what to get and what not to get from "Previews",
and I'm struck once again at just how expensive the Titan reprints are in
relation to books from other publishers. (Yes, I'm complaining about this
yet again).
Even the over-priced "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" hardcover offers
better value for money than "Portrait Of A Mutant" - LoEG will cost me an
extra AUD $10, but I get an extra 50 pages in colour *and* it's a nice
pretentious hardback volume. For AUD $5 *less* than "Portrait", I can get a
b&w manga volume with almost 100 pages more.
Other reprint books with similar page counts to "Portrait" come in $11-$15
(AUD) cheaper. Just as a comparison (in AUD):
Badland TP (144pages) - $28.00;
Daredevil: Underboss TP (144 pages) - $32.00;
Oh My Goddess: Leader of The Pack TP (152 pages) - $30.00;
3x3 Eyes: Summoning of The Beast TP (152 pages) - $32.00;
Seraphic Feather: Seeds of Chaos TP (240 pages) - $38.00;
Portrait of A Mutant (144 pages) - $43.00.
Badlands is creator-owned, Daredevil is company-owned, and god knows how the
license/royalty payments for the three manga collections work, but they
*all* weigh in significantly cheaper than the Titan book
This is just really, really *wrong*.
In addition, LoEG, Badlands and the manga collections will probably even
ship sometime this year. Titan just seem to solicit material and then ship
it several months later when they feel like.
I'm sure Rebellion had a good reason for going through Titan, but for the
life of me I can't think what it is.
Graeme
Simon Gurr
want to respond to your points.
On 4/24/02 7:56 AM, Graeme used a keyboard to make the following:
Mark Chapman
> and I'm struck once again at just how expensive the Titan reprints are in
> relation to books from other publishers. (Yes, I'm complaining about this
> yet again).
That's odd, because in the UK, the prices are relatively comparable to
other graphic novels. The Titan books tend to fall between £10-13,
which is a similar price range to most similar-sized DC/Image titles
(and the hardback editions are a lot cheaper). I don't know whether
this means 2000 AD books are particularly cheap in the UK, or that
American titles are particularly expensive, just that the books are
competitive over here.
It is true that economies of scale mean US graphic novels can be
printed for a much lower unit price, but that doesn't seem to affect
the cover price over here, so I presume the price difference must
relate to higher shipping/distribution costs from the UK.
Fixating on page count is only relevant if you're buying the books for
how weighty they are. Personally I'd feel far more cheated spending
£15 on 256 pages of crap than on an excellent 96-pager. 2000 AD
collections will tend to be shorter than US collections, simply
because the weekly format means the writing must be much tighter to
move the story on in a six-page episode. A lot of the extra page count
in US comics is unneccesary filler.
> I'm sure Rebellion had a good reason for going through Titan, but for the
> life of me I can't think what it is.
Er, because they're the UK's best and only graphic novel publisher,
maybe? They have an established market of comics-literate buyers which
they can feed graphic novels into, which makes it a lot easier than
going through another publisher with no understanding of or interest
in the market.
Robin Low
Chapman <ma...@rebellion.co.uk> writes
>Fixating on page count is only relevant if you're buying the books for
>how weighty they are. Personally I'd feel far more cheated spending
>£15 on 256 pages of crap than on an excellent 96-pager.
True enough, although I'm far more likely to spend that 15 quid on a
couple of novels these days.
My only complaint regarding Titan's reprints is that they aren't
printing what I want to see, namely complete chronological runs of major
series, including annuals and specials. I personally don't like buying
bits and bobs taken from here and there.
Personal wish list:
The impossible Complete Dredd
The Complete Strontium Dog(s) (at least up to the end of The Final
Solution and preferably to the end Peter Hogan's run, plus Alan Grant's
Durham Red stories)
The Complete Robo-Hunter (including The Return of Sam Slade (circa prog
436-442, which was mysteriously left out of the old microguide, and The
Killing of Kidd, neither of which were reprinted in the Best of 2000AD)
The Complete Ace Trucking Co.
The Complete Slaine (at least up to the end of Slaine: The Horned God)
(ABC Warriors and Nemesis I more or less have.)
I'd even be happy if the page size of such collections was reduced to
something more in line with the Cerebus or Akira reprint collections
(anything so I can get rid of the inconvenient stacks of Best of 2000AD)
Regards
Robin
--
Robin Low
John Parkinson
>Personal wish list:
[SNIP]
That's exactly what I'd like to see as well.
>I'd even be happy if the page size of such collections was reduced to
>something more in line with the Cerebus or Akira reprint collections
>(anything so I can get rid of the inconvenient stacks of Best of 2000AD)
I asked Jamie B about the possibility of this on the WEF last week
and...basically the answer is that it's not going to be coming from
Titan.
--
John Parkinson --- Step over the Borderline
<http://www.destiny.org.uk> <http://borderline.mediahall.co.uk>
Robin Low
high.co.uk>, John Parkinson <jp--spam-...@destiny.org.uk> writes
>Robin Low wrote:
>
>>I'd even be happy if the page size of such collections was reduced to
>>something more in line with the Cerebus or Akira reprint collections
>>(anything so I can get rid of the inconvenient stacks of Best of 2000AD)
>
>I asked Jamie B about the possibility of this on the WEF last week
>and...basically the answer is that it's not going to be coming from
>Titan.
>
Fair enough. I wonder what the arrangement with Titan is though? Are
they free to offer stuff that Titan's not interested in to other
companies who perhaps are? (Obviously, this would be problematic where
Titan are willing to print some, but not all story arcs from a given
series - if they're publishing Portrait of a Mutant, they won't want
another company reprinting the Complete Strontium Dog including Portrait
of a Mutant.)
Graeme
news:b7267ff2.02042...@posting.google.com:
First off, thanks for the reply Mark. My initial post was born largely of
frustration at the problems with price and availability at least some of us
experience in Australia, and certainly didn't take into account that the
relative costs might not suffer such a discrepancy in the UK.
> That's odd, because in the UK, the prices are relatively comparable to
> other graphic novels. The Titan books tend to fall between £10-13,
> which is a similar price range to most similar-sized DC/Image titles
> (and the hardback editions are a lot cheaper). I don't know whether
> this means 2000 AD books are particularly cheap in the UK, or that
> American titles are particularly expensive, just that the books are
> competitive over here.
Our exchange rate certainly doesn't do us any favours, but the difference
in price is *really* disproportionate. I'd be interested to know from any
of the American readers (Grant, are you reading this?) whether they find
the price of the Titan books to be noticeably dearer than those of the US
publishers.
> It is true that economies of scale mean US graphic novels can be
> printed for a much lower unit price, but that doesn't seem to affect
> the cover price over here, so I presume the price difference must
> relate to higher shipping/distribution costs from the UK.
No idea. Diamond are the common distributor for both of them here, and I
wouldn't have expected the relatively short trans-Atlantic distance from
Titan to Diamond USA to add that much extra to the cost. "Portrait of a
Mutant" is listed at US $19.99, which (generally) will net you a much
thicker book through other publishers.
> Fixating on page count is only relevant if you're buying the books for
> how weighty they are.
It's also very relevant if you have a limited amount of money available
(which, when buying imported goods here, is very much the case) and want to
get the best value for money. If I'm going to spend $43 on a collected
volume, and if it's a choice between a thin reprint of a sentimental
favourite that I already have in individual issues, and a similarly-priced
volume of new material that I've heard a lot of good things about.
Just to throw in an example, I paid $38 AUD ($17.95 USD) for the second
Lucifer TPB, even though I already had the individual issues. But as much
as I wanted the recent ABC Warriors Titan collection at the same price, I
found I just wasn't prepared to hand over the same amount of money for a
substantially thinner book despite my fondness for the stories inside.
Naturally this is as much a reflection of my tastes as it is of anything
else, but I don't think I'm the only one who's found themselves in this
situation.
Personally I'd feel far more cheated spending
> £15 on 256 pages of crap than on an excellent 96-pager. 2000 AD
> collections will tend to be shorter than US collections, simply
> because the weekly format means the writing must be much tighter to
> move the story on in a six-page episode. A lot of the extra page count
> in US comics is unneccesary filler.
And a lot of it isn't. There are books that make good use of the extra
space the creative team have to work with, and I'm willing to bet that the
Daredevil TPB I used as an example is one of these. (Note that I have no
particular fondness for Daredevil, but given the quality of the creative
team - Bends & Maleev - I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the
doubt).
>> I'm sure Rebellion had a good reason for going through Titan, but for
>> the life of me I can't think what it is.
>
> Er, because they're the UK's best and only graphic novel publisher,
> maybe?
During the brief period when "From Hell" was banned from import into
Australia, Eddie Campbell and Bantam Australia came to an arrangement that
saw "From Hell" published locally at around $45 - almost $20 cheaper than
the imported counterpart.
If that can happen in a country where there are far fewer choices, I find
it difficult to believe that Titan were the first, last and only choice for
graphic novel publication. What about publishers in the rest of Europe?
They have an established market of comics-literate buyers which
> they can feed graphic novels into, which makes it a lot easier than
> going through another publisher with no understanding of or interest
> in the market.
But wouldn't part of that understanding suggest that some degree of price-
competitiveness would be a good thing? With the current Titan price-point
where it is, where's the incentive for new readers to pick up reprints that
are so much dearer (in relative terms) than more familiar products?
Graeme
--
Enter the Cow-orker:
http://members.optushome.com.au/white_gold/cow-orker.html
Grant Goggans
> That's odd, because in the UK, the prices are relatively comparable to
In the US, the Titan books are considerably more expensive, and for
far fewer pages. $30 is the standard, when
DC/Fantagraphics/Oni/Marvel rarely rise above $20.
> Personally I'd feel far more cheated spending
> £15 on 256 pages of crap than on an excellent 96-pager. 2000 AD
> collections will tend to be shorter than US collections, simply
> because the weekly format means the writing must be much tighter to
> move the story on in a six-page episode. A lot of the extra page count
> in US comics is unneccesary filler.
The response from this American would be: What is wrong with spending
£15 (or $22.50) for an excellent 256-pager?
Out of curiosity, Mark, have you read any of Jaime & Gilbert
Hernandez's "Love & Rockets" collections? Fantagraphics puts out ~180
page volumes for $17.95 and I'll be damned if there's so much as a
single wasted panel in a one of them.
That's not to say that lots of superhero books don't preen endlessly
with wasted space, but there are lots of less expensive American
collections with a higher page count which make much more financial
sense to buy.
> Er, because they're the UK's best and only graphic novel publisher,
> maybe? They have an established market of comics-literate buyers which
> they can feed graphic novels into, which makes it a lot easier than
> going through another publisher with no understanding of or interest
> in the market.
That much makes sense. A lot of sense.
But on the other hand, this is *still* the company which is *still*
debating whether or not to finally publish Nemesis Book II. (The
answer would be yes, and promptly, and in a single volume with the
Terror Tubes, the 1981 Sci-Fi Special, and Book I and Book III, and
for under $35 US. Duh.)
--Grant
Grant Goggans
> ma...@rebellion.co.uk (Mark Chapman) yelped excitedly in
> news:b7267ff2.02042...@posting.google.com:
> No idea. Diamond are the common distributor for both of them here, and I
> wouldn't have expected the relatively short trans-Atlantic distance from
> Titan to Diamond USA to add that much extra to the cost. "Portrait of a
> Mutant" is listed at US $19.99, which (generally) will net you a much
> thicker book through other publishers.
I was unaware that the book was $20 -- I suppose I was either working
from the Hamlyn model (I paid $32 for Judgement Day) or making wild
assumptions.
That doesn't change the crux of my argument, though. A skinny
paperback containing just 19 episodes, each 5-6 pages long, should
retail for about $10 in America. If Titan wanted to add another stack
of episodes, it would be worth the price they're asking.
--Grant
Jim Connick
news:3cc6bd6b$0$4304$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
The Underboss arc of Daredevil isn't the best example of using the extra
space well. There is a lot of talking heads, a fair bit of recaps, not a
huge amount of action (in the leaping about blind, punching people's heads
in sense of the word) and the stroy is pretty slowly paced.
Having said all of that, its still brilliant, IMO of course. Worth it for
the gorgeous Alex Maleev art alone.
Jim
Graeme
news:O6Ex8.36135$DZ2.6...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com:
> The Underboss arc of Daredevil isn't the best example of using the
> extra space well. There is a lot of talking heads, a fair bit of
> recaps, not a huge amount of action (in the leaping about blind,
> punching people's heads in sense of the word) and the stroy is pretty
> slowly paced.
Okay, bad example from that point of view :)
But my general point stil stands, that just because a book comes with 250-
odd pages doesn't mean that the bulk of it will be filler.
Let me throw in another example - "From Hell" (the Australian printing) is
$45. "Portrait of A Mutant" is $43. Granted that they're very different
types of stories, but in the quality:money ratio, "From Hell" beats the
pants off of "Portrait".
Having said all of that, its still brilliant, IMO of
> course. Worth it for the gorgeous Alex Maleev art alone.
That I'd believe. How well does Maleev's art work in colour? I haven't
seen it since he was doing b&w "The Crow" mini-series a few years ago.
Mark Chapman
> £15 (or $22.50) for an excellent 256-pager?
Whoa, calm down! You seem to infer that I was saying that all lengthy
(and American) graphic novels are crap, which isn't what I was saying
at all. If all graphic novels were like Watchmen - lengthy and superb
- I'd be a happy bunny, but unfortunately a great deal of them aren't.
I'd just rather spend my £15 and be riveted for 100 pages than be
bored for 256 pages.
The other issue is how long it takes you to read a book, which isn't
just down to page count - a densely plotted story like V for Vendetta
is going to take longer to read than say a Spawn book of similar size,
because the latter has a much higher proportion of splash pages, and
generally less panels and dialogue.
> Out of curiosity, Mark, have you read any of Jaime & Gilbert
> Hernandez's "Love & Rockets" collections? Fantagraphics puts out ~180
> page volumes for $17.95 and I'll be damned if there's so much as a
> single wasted panel in a one of them.
Couldn't agree more. Love & Rockets is splendid, and like I said,
there is hardly a shortage of good long graphic novels out there.
> That's not to say that lots of superhero books don't preen endlessly
> with wasted space, but there are lots of less expensive American
> collections with a higher page count which make much more financial
> sense to buy.
That's undeniable, but much of that comes down to the difference
between producing a book in the UK and the US. Becaue there is a much
larger comics market, you can confidently print more books, and hence
get a cheaper print price, which can then be passed on to the
consumer. I believe printing is generally cheaper in the US too (hell,
just about everything else is).
Mark Chapman
> frustration at the problems with price and availability at least some of us
> experience in Australia, and certainly didn't take into account that the
> relative costs might not suffer such a discrepancy in the UK.
Console yourself that you're not alone. I've heard in the past from a
lot of Australian comics fans who are constantly frustrated by
availability and prices.
> No idea. Diamond are the common distributor for both of them here, and I
> wouldn't have expected the relatively short trans-Atlantic distance from
> Titan to Diamond USA to add that much extra to the cost. "Portrait of a
> Mutant" is listed at US $19.99, which (generally) will net you a much
> thicker book through other publishers.
The lack of differential in the UK is more, I imagine, to do with the
fact that US graphic novels are way more expensive over here. A lot of
stores over here just use the same price as in the states, but
representing pounds, so for many US titles we suffer a 50% price hike.
One of the issues to bear in mind is that the UK is a bloody expensive
place to live (second only to Japan, ISTR), far more so than the US or
Oz, so anything produced domestically will relect that. Because the
2000 AD stuff is produced primarily for the UK market (and production
costs are higher), it's priced according to market conditions, but
unfortunately in countries where cost of living is less this creates a
differential. Trouble is, if publshers started local price-matching on
UK graphic novels, there would be trouble with UK fans feeling ripped
off.
> It's also very relevant if you have a limited amount of money available
> (which, when buying imported goods here, is very much the case) and want to
> get the best value for money. If I'm going to spend $43 on a collected
> volume, and if it's a choice between a thin reprint of a sentimental
> favourite that I already have in individual issues, and a similarly-priced
> volume of new material that I've heard a lot of good things about.
Valid point, and one I can sympathise with. For the same price as a
graphic novel over here, I can get three regular novels, or a new CD
and nearly two pints.
> And a lot of it isn't. There are books that make good use of the extra
> space the creative team have to work with, and I'm willing to bet that the
> Daredevil TPB I used as an example is one of these. (Note that I have no
> particular fondness for Daredevil, but given the quality of the creative
> team - Bends & Maleev - I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the
> doubt).
Not sure I'd agree on Daredevil (pretty as it is), but you're right to
the extent that there are a lot of quality titles with many pages and
little filler. There are however more titles with stacks of filler,
and it's not just confined to longer books - I've seen many fairly
skinny graphic novels with pages of meaningless padding.
> If that can happen in a country where there are far fewer choices, I find
> it difficult to believe that Titan were the first, last and only choice for
> graphic novel publication. What about publishers in the rest of Europe?
They may not have been the only choice, but they are the obvious one,
and are simply better at graphic novels than any other mainstream
publisher we could work with. As far as the rest of Europe goes, we
are working with SAF in Slovenia on a range of titles Titan haven't
optioned.
> But wouldn't part of that understanding suggest that some degree of price-
> competitiveness would be a good thing? With the current Titan price-point
> where it is, where's the incentive for new readers to pick up reprints that
> are so much dearer (in relative terms) than more familiar products?
Competitiveness is always a good idea, and the Titan titles are
competitive in their main (i.e. domestic) market. The wider issue is
that all comics are expensive because comics is a niche interest, so
the only way for a company not to lose masses of money on everything
they publish is to price high. Lower prices would attract new readers,
but at the expense of a lot of publishers going under (esecially in
the indie sector), and personally I'd rather have high prices than
complete loss of diversity.
Daniel Fawcett
news:1384839a.02042...@posting.google.com...
[snip]
> That doesn't change the crux of my argument, though. A skinny
> paperback containing just 19 episodes, each 5-6 pages long, should
> retail for about $10 in America. If Titan wanted to add another stack
> of episodes, it would be worth the price they're asking.
but this is the point. its _not_ America. what you're paying for is
a product made under much smaller economies of scale *and* an
import to boot. of course its going to cost more than something for
a local market thats 5x the size.
--
"'Motown Junk' is just a blur of hatred, a constant tirade. Everything
in our lives has been one long let-down."
- Nicky Wire, 1992
Graeme
news:b7267ff2.02042...@posting.google.com...
> Console yourself that you're not alone. I've heard in the past from a
> lot of Australian comics fans who are constantly frustrated by
> availability and prices.
If only we comprised a big enough chunk of 2000AD's readership to lobby
effectively.
> The lack of differential in the UK is more, I imagine, to do with the
> fact that US graphic novels are way more expensive over here. A lot of
> stores over here just use the same price as in the states, but
> representing pounds, so for many US titles we suffer a 50% price hike.
So "100 Bullets", for instance, would be 2.50 pounds? That's around $6.70
AUD, vs the $5.40 AUD I pay. You're right - that's a pretty harsh mark-up.
> One of the issues to bear in mind is that the UK is a bloody expensive
> place to live (second only to Japan, ISTR), far more so than the US or
> Oz, so anything produced domestically will relect that.
D'oh. Should have remembered that - some friends just came back from there
after finding the cost of living too high to stay there any longer while
they looked for work.
Because the
> 2000 AD stuff is produced primarily for the UK market (and production
> costs are higher), it's priced according to market conditions, but
> unfortunately in countries where cost of living is less this creates a
> differential. Trouble is, if publshers started local price-matching on
> UK graphic novels, there would be trouble with UK fans feeling ripped
> off.
Sadly that all makes perfect sense. Time for me to change tack and start
demanding phonebook-sized reprints instead :)
> Valid point, and one I can sympathise with. For the same price as a
> graphic novel over here, I can get three regular novels, or a new CD
> and nearly two pints.
Lucky bugger. The cost of a graphic novel here will get you maybe two
novels, so long as you're not choosy about what you read (Ellroy's "Cold Six
Thousand" is still close to $30 AUD in most places I've seen), or maybe one
imported CD. That's it.
The cost of living here is certainly lower, but the cost of a lot of other
things can be quite vicious at times.
> Not sure I'd agree on Daredevil (pretty as it is),
Jim's already set me straight on that score. It just seemed like a
convenient example to use from the same issue of Previews. Next month I'd
probably have used the third "Lucifer" trade as a comparison instead.
but you're right to
> the extent that there are a lot of quality titles with many pages and
> little filler. There are however more titles with stacks of filler,
> and it's not just confined to longer books - I've seen many fairly
> skinny graphic novels with pages of meaningless padding.
Can't say I've seen many like that, but that's probably because I haven't
bought any to read in the first place because of the size vs price issue.
> They may not have been the only choice, but they are the obvious one,
> and are simply better at graphic novels than any other mainstream
> publisher we could work with.
How close is the working relationship? From where I'm standing, Titan seem
to be working with more madness (or at least eccentricity) than method -
their publication schedule and choice of reprints seems very improvised, and
it's hard to see the results as having any kind of strategic thinking behind
them.
As far as the rest of Europe goes, we
> are working with SAF in Slovenia on a range of titles Titan haven't
> optioned.
Cool. "Wireheads" printed in Kyrillic script - just what I've been hanging
out for :)
> Competitiveness is always a good idea, and the Titan titles are
> competitive in their main (i.e. domestic) market. The wider issue is
> that all comics are expensive because comics is a niche interest, so
> the only way for a company not to lose masses of money on everything
> they publish is to price high. Lower prices would attract new readers,
> but at the expense of a lot of publishers going under (esecially in
> the indie sector), and personally I'd rather have high prices than
> complete loss of diversity.
Fair enough. I've been working on the assumption that the Titan volumes
were intended to help 2000AD expand their presence in the market by picking
up new readers (some of the eary reprint choices seemed to reflect that) and
trying to bring back old ones, but if the real target audience is existing
readers within the UK market then a lot of the things I'm unhappy with start
to make sense.
I still think there must be a better way, but I appreciate you taking the
time to repsond to all this.
Graeme
Zoe J. Robinson
<Cut>
> The impossible Complete Dredd
Why's it impossible? DC seem to be able to bring out collections of a
decade's worth of JLA/Superman/Batman, so why's it impossible to bring
out a decade's worth of Dredd? They'd only need 5 volumes containing 5
years of strip in order to bring it up-to-date.
DC bring out 10 years' worth of comics in hardback for goodness knows
how much - I think it's about £40. This is 12*28(approx)*10=3360 pages.
Rebellion/Titan/Whoever could bring out a similarly-priced hardback,
containing 52*6*10=3120 pages, or 1560 pages for a 5-year collection.
It's not unmanageable, surely? After all, people produce omnibus
editions of The Lord of The Rings, which is much thicker than that.
Zoë
--
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Diary: nobmouse.pitas.com
General: nobtmouse.tripod.com
ICQ: 30006397
Graeme
news:3CC8B3E...@nobmouse.net...
> > The impossible Complete Dredd
>
> Why's it impossible? DC seem to be able to bring out collections of a
> decade's worth of JLA/Superman/Batman, so why's it impossible to bring
> out a decade's worth of Dredd?
The forbidden Burger King/McDonalds/Jolly Green Giant issues of "The Cursed
Earth" get in the way.
They'd only need 5 volumes containing 5
> years of strip in order to bring it up-to-date.
And they could dub the Millar/Morrison compendium as "Complete Dredd
Archives Vol X: The Appalling Crap Years" :)
> Rebellion/Titan/Whoever could bring out a similarly-priced hardback,
> containing 52*6*10=3120 pages, or 1560 pages for a 5-year collection.
> It's not unmanageable, surely? After all, people produce omnibus
> editions of The Lord of The Rings, which is much thicker than that.
I'm not sure what you're trying to hurt more, Zoe - my head or my wallet.
Graeme
John Parkinson
>DC bring out 10 years' worth of comics in hardback for goodness knows
>how much - I think it's about £40. This is 12*28(approx)*10=3360 pages.
Whoa there!
No they dont.
I assume you're talking about the DC Archives. Which contain about 250
pages of stuff for $40-50 a pop.
>Rebellion/Titan/Whoever could bring out a similarly-priced hardback,
>containing 52*6*10=3120 pages, or 1560 pages for a 5-year collection.
>It's not unmanageable, surely? After all, people produce omnibus
>editions of The Lord of The Rings, which is much thicker than that.
The thickest comic collections which come out are about 600 pages.
That's stuff like Cerebus, Box Office Poison and From Hell.
[Oh, I just thought about an example of Titan being utter rip-off
merchants. Dave McKean's 'Cages' is being re-released. This is a big
hardcover book. In the US it's being handled by NBM and is priced $50.
In the UK it's being handled by Titan and is priced £49.99.
I'd be very surprised if there's separate printing going on, I expect
they're just rebranding it like with the Akira trades (and there's
another example where they're ripping people off.)]
Mark Chapman
> AUD, vs the $5.40 AUD I pay. You're right - that's a pretty harsh mark-up.
Not sure about the monthly issues, because I don't tend to buy them,
but it certainly applies to graphic novels. For example, I recently
bought Alan Moore's Top Ten, which is one of the less heavily marked
up ones, for £12.99, which is the equivalent of US$19, whereas the
cover price is $14.99. That's a mass-market book from a major
publisher, so it's relatively reasonable, but when you start looking
at obscure indies, the price can really rocket.
> Lucky bugger. The cost of a graphic novel here will get you maybe two
> novels, so long as you're not choosy about what you read (Ellroy's "Cold Six
> Thousand" is still close to $30 AUD in most places I've seen), or maybe one
> imported CD. That's it.
To be honest, that's similar to the high street prices you're likely
to pay over here, but the British retail economy works in a peculiar
way these days. Stuff comes out at very high prices, then is either
reduced in price or put in a 3-for-the-price-of-2 deal very rapidly
(as in, within a few weeks), so only the truly dedicated will pay full
price for anything. You can also find plenty of shops that operate by
on low overheads for a much reduced profit margin (the place I get
most of my CDs knocks out everything for a tenner).
So you end up in a situation where, for example, although the high
street price for a CD will be around £15-16, I haven't paid more than
£10-11 for anything for a coupla years now, without having to
compromise on what I buy. Sadly, there's no similar system in comics -
stuff comes out at a premium price, and often goes up, with only the
worst dross ever dropping to budget prices.
> Jim's already set me straight on that score. It just seemed like a
> convenient example to use from the same issue of Previews. Next month I'd
> probably have used the third "Lucifer" trade as a comparison instead.
I thought that was going to be fairly skinny, like the previous one?
> I've seen many fairly
> > skinny graphic novels with pages of meaningless padding.
> Can't say I've seen many like that, but that's probably because I haven't
> bought any to read in the first place because of the size vs price issue.
Spawn springs to mind, as do some of the Elseworlds titles. My
nomination for the oscar for services to pretty but meaningless
padding must go to Frank Miller for Sin City (admittedly not
particularly slim volumes, but very padded).
> How close is the working relationship? From where I'm standing, Titan seem
> to be working with more madness (or at least eccentricity) than method -
> their publication schedule and choice of reprints seems very improvised, and
> it's hard to see the results as having any kind of strategic thinking behind
> them.
You'd have to ask Jamie B about that, but I think a lot of their
strategy involves reprinting stuff by creators who have later gone on
to American fame, to try and drive sales in the US. Hence lots of
Ennis/Dillon and Moore. Their publication schedule is reasonably
regular, but Previews works to slightly different timelines, and by
the time the vagaries of distribution are taken into account, things
tend to get knocked rather askew.
> Cool. "Wireheads" printed in Kyrillic script - just what I've been hanging
> out for :)
Wow, you read our minds. ;)
> Fair enough. I've been working on the assumption that the Titan volumes
> were intended to help 2000AD expand their presence in the market by picking
> up new readers (some of the eary reprint choices seemed to reflect that) and
> trying to bring back old ones, but if the real target audience is existing
> readers within the UK market then a lot of the things I'm unhappy with start
> to make sense.
I'd imagine the target audience includes readers in the States as
well, but the existing audience is primarily in the UK, so they can't
be ignored.
Justice
comes out, then you probably deserve to be ripped off.
Dunno how many times I've grabbed 2000AD collected storylines going *super
cheap* at outlet stores.
£2.99 seems a *much* better option than £14.99 (or whatever).
I know what my wallet prefers - and if I wanted to read the storyline that
badly - just go back to your prog file.
Justice
Jus...@Innocent.dotcom
www.fcuk.tv
------------------------------------------
Raindogs collected volume - what idiot thought *that* one up?
Kevin Symonds
"Justice" <Jus...@Innocent.dotcom> wrote in message
news:aabh3q$2de$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
>> Dunno how many times I've grabbed 2000AD collected storylines going
*super cheap* at outlet stores.<<
And the name of these outlet stores are? :)
Kevin
Justice
for a few quid.
.
There's also a good one in The Galleria and a few bookshops in London had
the Titan edition Judge Dredd re-coloured efforts about.
Just gotta look around a bit.
--
Justice
Jus...@Innocent.dotcom
www.fcuk.tv
------------------------------------------
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"Kevin Symonds" <cleve...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Jim Connick
news:%tgy8.3237$Mi.5...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
: "Justice" <Jus...@Innocent.dotcom> wrote in message
County Books and The Works are usually worth looking in. To a lesser extent
check out Bookworld too (and I'm not just saying that because I worked for
them until recently) which occasionally gets some of the Hamlyn stuff in. We
had Fetish floating around for £3 about a month ago.
Jim
Graeme
> Not sure about the monthly issues, because I don't tend to buy them,
> but it certainly applies to graphic novels. For example, I recently
> bought Alan Moore's Top Ten, which is one of the less heavily marked
> up ones, for £12.99, which is the equivalent of US$19, whereas the
> cover price is $14.99. That's a mass-market book from a major
> publisher, so it's relatively reasonable, but when you start looking
> at obscure indies, the price can really rocket.
So the Titan books don't look as expensive by comparison after all...
Economics and retailer markups do strange things - using a straight
conversion, Top Ten *should* only cost $27/$28 AUD, but actually retails
in Brisbane for closer to $33 AUD (c. $18 US).
That's interesting, actually - it looks like the UK and Australia (or
this part at least) seem to get similar conversion rates on the US price.
> To be honest, that's similar to the high street prices you're likely
> to pay over here, but the British retail economy works in a peculiar
> way these days. Stuff comes out at very high prices, then is either
> reduced in price or put in a 3-for-the-price-of-2 deal very rapidly
> (as in, within a few weeks), so only the truly dedicated will pay full
> price for anything. You can also find plenty of shops that operate by
> on low overheads for a much reduced profit margin (the place I get
> most of my CDs knocks out everything for a tenner).
I don't know about the larger cities (all two of them) in the southern
states, but I don't think many of the retailers here work that way. With
books, at least, you don't normally see any substantial drop in price
until (for hardbacks) the paperback is due for release, or (with trade-
sized paperbacks) the regular-sized editions are released.
Sydney and Melbourne shoppers may well have more variety in the places
they can get things from. On the other hand, the cost of living (in
Sydney, anyway) is also substantially higher than it is here in Brisbane.
> So you end up in a situation where, for example, although the high
> street price for a CD will be around £15-16, I haven't paid more than
> £10-11 for anything for a coupla years now, without having to
> compromise on what I buy. Sadly, there's no similar system in comics -
> stuff comes out at a premium price, and often goes up, with only the
> worst dross ever dropping to budget prices.
Which was why cheap and affordable reprints are such a holy grail for so
many of us.
>> Jim's already set me straight on that score. It just seemed like a
>> convenient example to use from the same issue of Previews. Next
>> month I'd probably have used the third "Lucifer" trade as a
>> comparison instead.
>
> I thought that was going to be fairly skinny, like the previous one?
"Children and Monsters" was nine issues' worth, and the next one
("Dalliance With The Damned") will probably be at least six or seven,
which will start putting it around the same page count that the Titan
volumes seem to favour.
>> I've seen many fairly
>> > skinny graphic novels with pages of meaningless padding.
>> Can't say I've seen many like that, but that's probably because I
>> haven't bought any to read in the first place because of the size vs
>> price issue.
>
> Spawn springs to mind, as do some of the Elseworlds titles.
I've never even glanced at a Spawn TPB, and it's been a long time since I
looked at the Elseworlds books, but yes, they're both *very* thin and
over-priced.
My
> nomination for the oscar for services to pretty but meaningless
> padding must go to Frank Miller for Sin City (admittedly not
> particularly slim volumes, but very padded).
I stopped reading Sin City a while back, partly for that very reason, but
mainly because the stories themselves were starting to blur). The last
one I can remember really standing out was "That Yellow Bastard".
>> How close is the working relationship? From where I'm standing,
>> Titan seem to be working with more madness (or at least eccentricity)
>> than method - their publication schedule and choice of reprints seems
>> very improvised, and it's hard to see the results as having any kind
>> of strategic thinking behind them.
>
> You'd have to ask Jamie B about that, but I think a lot of their
> strategy involves reprinting stuff by creators who have later gone on
> to American fame, to try and drive sales in the US. Hence lots of
> Ennis/Dillon and Moore.
That part made sense and was what they seemed to be doing initially, even
where in some cases they were reprinting material that was somewhat less
than stellar ("Helter Skelter", for example, and I seem to recall Andy
saying he had to discourage them from reprinting "Crusade").
This is why I was surprised to suddenly see "Portrait of A Mutant" and
"A.B.C. Warriors" crop up, as it seemed like a fairly radical departure
from the previous reprint policy. Grant, Mills, McMahon and Ezquerra are
all known in the US, but they dont enjoy the same "big name" status of
the Moores, Ennises (Ennisii?) and (ptoeey!) Millars.
And I don't know what the publication delays are like elsewhere
(presumably they're better in the UK, being closer to the point of
origin), but here the Titan books can turn up months late. I think the
Judge Death hardcover was due to ship in November (?) but it didn't turn
up here until around March.
Their publication schedule is reasonably
> regular, but Previews works to slightly different timelines, and by
> the time the vagaries of distribution are taken into account, things
> tend to get knocked rather askew.
I always figured that if you're reprinting material that's being
solicited three months ahead of time, that would allow plenty of margin
for error with distribution problems. It isn't like they're being held
up waiting for tardy artists to finish off their work, or writers who've
over-committed themsleves elsewhere.
> I'd imagine the target audience includes readers in the States as
> well, but the existing audience is primarily in the UK, so they can't
> be ignored.
I suppose... Doesn't make me any happier about it, mind you.
Graeme
Patrick Brown
news:Xns91FD66D955C9Bgr...@210.49.20.254...
> Ennises (Ennisii?)
Ennes. Did nobody else do Latin at school?
--
Patrick Brown
remove IHATESPAM to reply
The Ulster Cycle http://irelandnow.com/ulstercycle
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Graeme
news:jTty8.10087$%k.10...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com:
>> Ennises (Ennisii?)
>
> Ennes. Did nobody else do Latin at school?
No, I did *interesting* languages like Old Icelandic and Old English.
Graeme
Patrick Brown
What's "Romanes Eunt Domus" in them then?
Seriously though, I'm trying to teach myself Old Irish, so that sounds dead
groovy. What sort of school do you have to go to to get to do that sort of
thing?
paulj
"Patrick Brown" <patric...@IHATESPAMntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:jTty8.10087$%k.10...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Graeme <gra...@sodoff.optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:Xns91FD66D955C9Bgr...@210.49.20.254...
>
> > Ennises (Ennisii?)
>
> Ennes. Did nobody else do Latin at school?
>
Ennui, shurely?
- pj
Graeme
> What's "Romanes Eunt Domus" in them then?
Pfft. No idea. But I know how to say "Your brownish-grey horse with the
dark stripe down its back is standing on my foot" in Old Icelandic.
> Seriously though, I'm trying to teach myself Old Irish, so that sounds
> dead groovy.
Oh, it is. I much prefer Old Icelandic, as the Icelanders had a much
better class of secular literature than the Anglo Saxons.
What sort of school do you have to go to to get to do
> that sort of thing?
Had to go to University, actually. State schools in Queensland are very
limited in what languages they offer.
Graeme